Daniel Swift and Barbara Lakeberg

00:03 Hey, good afternoon. Today is Saturday, July 10th. 2021. My name is Dan Swift wift. I am 72 years old and I was a coincidence. I'm going to be 73 tomorrow. I'm talking with Barbara know is I've been partnered up with on storycorps and I'm going to reach her biography next and soon as I get to it. Okay, Barbara is a 68 year old women rights activist born and raised in Rochester where life has included many jobs Living Spaces people and experiences. She's been to 25 countries and has lived in many different circumstances. Such as a busted macrobiotic restaurants apprenticeship Apprenticeship Training Program a year in Norway where she learned Norwegian

01:03 And made interviews with immigrants refugees, and Native Norwegians on racism and discrimination, as well as six years and a Kurdish Iraq, running a local rights organization.

01:21 So Barbara, why don't you take it from there? 69 in August and I'm a one small step to partner with Dan and Swift just met him today. The computers and phones to try to make it Saturday work.

01:46 And I'm going to read his bio.

01:50 So as I said, my partner is Dan Swift. He was in Southern California. He's retired. However, I'm retiring, he's wanted to have a heart attack estimator and he thought the baking set that job. Well, he's become a serious and that you're not afraid of attempting a problem to be solved and he's thankful for the opportunity to assert himself.

02:26 Thanks for reading this, the first View and it is supposed to be 5 minutes.

02:46 Okay, I will start out on Sunday to, I was born and told a suburb of Philadelphia Pennsylvania, spent the first twenty years of my life. There after that. I drafted into the military, find getting out of the military. I got my undergraduate degree in electrical engineering, many opportunities, for a part of my life in Orlando, for a good part of my life in Plano, Texas for the last portion of my life here in Moorpark, California.

03:36 It's about all I can say that I have as far as my biography for 5, minutes. 5 minutes.

03:46 I enjoy a good problem. Like I said in my biography not necessarily a baking problem that I am enjoying a conundrum Carson's me to give some serious thought to things when I was working. I always received all the dog problems, all the things that other people couldn't do and that was my strength. That was the part of my life that really gave me. The reasons that are I'm divorced. No kids. It's one of my big regrets in life, and I'm currently living alone. It's about it. How about yourself Barbara?

04:35 I was born in Rochester, New York.

04:44 Back here at the end of 2010 and I come back. Also, the end of 2009 was just for a brief period until I could find a new kind of work to do. I've been living and working in Northern Iraq and registration procedure of starting a nonprofit, but how my life got started. I grew up Catholic and in order to get married to agree, that the children will be raised Catholic, but he was flexible enough to not make a complaint because they like my mother and she was a great person. And so is my dad, my dad's about to turn 95 in August and my parents they had three kids. I'm the first one. I did really well in school, graduated second in my class for a public school went on to Wellesley College.

05:44 Psychology and graduated three years went to grad school for education, for your after that. And I never really thought I was going to do. So I got going with teaching, a special ed teaching and then after a few years decided, I'd rather go live in the countryside with the boyfriend. So I did that job in New York city. So I was with him for about three years and he was not the kind of person that was ready to get married or have kids all the way. You talked about it. A bit, eventually split up, all kinds of artistic creative, the Natural Foods, cooking things while I was with him and I

06:44 What is the last 40 years? You have my own restaurants in vape shop, but I have not been able to do that because it takes a lot of time and energy and you need money to do it and I don't have enough savings. So most of my life has been a teacher. I've done a lot of work and nonprofit organizations. I tried College as well as preschool through High School mainly with special education students, but other things to do in Norway for your like I said in my bio and that was to do the research for my doctoral dissertation and political science from Brown University. So I did a PhD in political science and I got the grant to go to Norway for a year in 1991. So, this is my 30th anniversary of doing my field research and I've loads of things to talk about. But my current story right now is that I have to really love the work I did in Iraq, but it was so difficult. It was all Grant driven work and I was the director of a local.

07:44 Profit organization, working with people, from Muslim and Christian, and you city backgrounds, and all different ethnic groups in training and support, but we had to keep looking for money and I was the main one who wrote The Grand and didn't think I'd be here all that long, but I've been here for the last 11 years and it was so hard to find a job. At first. I went back to my old teaching career. I used some of my restaurant training experience to work in a couple of different restaurants and bakeries that bake shops. So we have that in common. Damn. I really, really loved baking to

08:31 I have a lot of cats right now cats and kittens cuz I have to buy a house six years ago in the neighborhood. That's right. Near the water of Lake Ontario at the northern edge of the United States and we have woods and parks nearby and for some reason, cats got started making new cats in this area and there are so many of them Outdoors that my neighbors and I have done a lot of work trying to rescue them and bring them indoors, find homes for them. Keep pregnant mothers from having their babies Outdoors or special programs. So we're thinking to make an organization to do a more definite effort where we can get a lot more people involved cuz it's too much work for just a few of us.

09:18 That's it.

09:21 I should say I speak like six or seven languages cuz I love talking and I love people. Did you ever have any problem learning the languages that you know it I think the gift of being able to pick up a language quickly including Greek and Latin. So I think that I must have a natural ability. My dad didn't quite in here at that Gene. He learned some French and some German, but mostly speaks English. And yeah, my mom was good with languages, but just really new polish that she was Anna born into a Polish family and knew that first before she learned English and then learn French, but I find it really easy to learn languages cuz I

10:11 I like talking with people so much and I like learning about your background and their culture and where they're from, but it makes it not difficult to pick up the languages. So I took formal classes in French for a long time. I took a couple years of German. I took Swedish. I took Norwegian when I got to Norway, but I picked up just by living in a language teacher, but did a good job. Giving me some of the basics on grammar so I can kind of figure it out with them and people would teach me how to say things that I practice and I have my own version of Kurdish that works. Okay, as a man who I met when I was in Norway, we got married two months after we met and you probably should know somebody longer than that. We had

11:11 So I'd also recommend knowing someone longer than two weeks before you make a permanent decision. So, but we lasted for a long time. He's on here, trying something happen and he came from a country that had a lot of people would make children. So anyway, so we split up, but we're still okay, friends, I do, but I don't have a good way to do that right now, cuz I'm so busy helping my dad and also all the cats.

12:04 But the learning the language is Arabic. I tried to learn when I first was with my husband and we were getting along so poorly that I thought maybe if I learn his language it would help us out to make it easier to go to Iraq and pick up more. When I was there.

12:28 So I'm interested and I am quizzical rather you say you had to do, have some grants that took you into my racket cuz you to go to Iraq. You just pick up, wake up in the morning, go. Well. It's Tuesday. So I think I'm going to go to Iraq.

12:53 We were living in Philadelphia fall places. I'm sure he's not. What suburb were you living in where you grew up, or what town do I go to? That's correct. Ambler is a little bit further north. If you've ever heard of the William Penn Inn, I was within spitting distance of that.

13:21 Oh, I left Philadelphia. But when we were there just weren't very many opportunities to do in China.

13:25 Work each day that I just gotten, my focus was on conflict, resolution and international relations, and I wanted to do a plaid work, either in a development organization or even living overseas preferably in countries that were experiencing war and needed help recovering from that. So when I lived in Philadelphia took a while to find anything, that's it. Well with my background, but I did find a couple of jobs that I liked but they were not ideal. One was with an organization that did support for African location on technical training programs, in nonprofits over there. So I got to go to West Africa, to Sierra Leone in Liberia in Nigeria and a couple of technical assistance trips. And I love Dad, and that was really fun. That was where we learned how to make a training Workshop in trauma. Counseling. That later became the model for the work in Iraq.

14:25 I was in Philadelphia that we're going to station, had some internal difficulties with it and with the administration and also, I was getting you mean political organization, correct your programs, but I kept waking going on the trips, but my husband wasn't very faithful in some ways when I go off on the trips. So, I felt like if I took another long trip, and I was about to have to go in a long trip. I thought our marriage would fall apart will have realized you'd already made a baby with somebody that he worked with. And so I left because I felt like I needed to stay closer to home and be there cuz he wasn't real happy with the long trip. So, I had to take that job, but we didn't stay together. We split up like the year after.

15:25 And when I was not with him, then I was free to take a job in New York or Washington. It was more in line with the international relations work, that I'd like to do. So, the American Center in Fairfax, Virginia was looking for a director for their office, and one of my students at Providence College, because when I was going for my doctor that I had two years of being able to teach at Providence College Science, for one of my students that I thought had moved down to Washington works for an organization there and I got in touch with her and I said, oh I just applied for the same place. Maybe we'll be able to work there together. She said well, no because she has just resigned and so had two other people not being there. Another one, but it was I need for the director of the American furnished that you they wanted somebody who could write grants and funding and issues and plan programs.

16:25 From a mixture of backgrounds and she said, you'll be fine for that and she didn't have the grant writing experience. So my friend recommended me for that and I got to accept it right away and fired by the current to work for this organization that I thought was not political, but it turned out, it was, it was going a couple of times to Iraq with them on technical assistance trips because we had money from the state department to do implementation of a women's program, assisting them with sewing machines and other materials for women skills training and we had some medical supplies and items that would supplement the Kurdish Ministry of Health. So I worked on Project work that had gotten started before. I was hired by the British organization and when I went over there, I like doing the work over there directly.

17:23 Much more than sitting in a pretty much empty office in Virginia and living in Maryland. Driving 45 minutes every day to work. So I said, I would like better to live over there and still be the director of the organization and continue to look for Grants and programs. And most of the board members found during the time. I worked with them and that has gone very well. I said, I think it's more useful, if I'm over here and we're rebuilding the country after the war, but one of the board members who happen to be here, in the board, thought that wasn't good cuz I want to be in Washington, so I could go to meetings there.

18:05 And I said, okay, then I guess I have to resign, so I resigned from the American Furniture organization, but I'd already done twice to Curtis on and it made a lot of friends and connections. And I thought it was you Consulting.

18:22 I like democracy building and Reconciliation or I could start a local nonprofit turned out, there was money from the US government. Coming through rti in North Carolina to do training in workshops and seminars, teaching people, the basics about political parties principles of democracy, human rights, gender equality. And they had programs in 17 of the 18th Governor s in Iraq, but didn't have one because they take. So they needed somebody to run the same kind of training as what they had going in the other governorates up in the northernmost one, and I had contacts and board members were living up there. And so it was like an easy way to quickly get an organization going with local people who I'd met during the training workshops, and then we got funding, first of all, from

19:19 The US government through or she is like a subcontractor with RTI and we really liked what we did. So we kept trying to get grants from National Democratic Institute, organizations from Norwegian and Swedish organization. Sometimes local offices. In the Kurdish region have funding, but not very much. And then we got a really large Grant from the fund in 2007. And we had a project that was like one year project, but got extended for a second year with the same money stretched out. So some of the time we didn't have grants and I had to use my savings because I was divorced, we could sell her house in Philadelphia. We live near the art museum, the price of the house, at gone way up. We bought it for 7000. In the year. We bought in 1997 and a half years later. We sold it for $257,000.

20:19 Market in Philadelphia in the location. We have to buy it over there. Sometimes use my own money. I didn't get paid $200 3400 months. Something like that, which seems quite eggs compared to how other people got paid there. And so, I made much smaller pay for myself. So, I got some nice, $1,000, a month, and I worked all the time, but it was wonderful.

21:03 So, I'm sorry to talk so much when I got loads of interesting parts of life to talk about. But I think about you Dan and I'd like to know, what did you do with software and with computers? What's that? You know, I know you were talking about people giving you the hardest problems to solve, but were you writing code or what you're doing, like technological equipment questions. What did you do as a computer programmer, computer specialist? Well, yes too kind of all of the above. I was a very, very early internet adapter. I'm going to say I was on the internet, probably around, 1980 or so when it was very early on. I've met a lot of the big people involved with it. The engineering and computer engineering has always been something that I've enjoyed and, you know, as a software engineer.

22:03 My biography, I like a problem. I'd like to have a problem that I can put my hand all the way around and then breaks. So as an example, this is a personal example that happened to like American football and just for the heck of it. I developed a program that would allow me to keep track of football pools for the office and keep track of his on 1st. And he's winning and is not a significant amount of work that I'm going to say. It took me six months to write it all and something that I'm kind of proud of. But

22:50 But you I'd like to, I'd like to have something that I can really Embrace and

22:59 And get my teeth into the same thing. I can remember, you know, a lot of people, they'd be afraid. You know, what? For example, I was growing up, all when I was growing up, starting with my mother. Oh, you can't bake bread, that's impossible to do its hardest thing in the world to do and that's simply not the case as you? Well know. I'm sure than Iraq, you had have had akmak, which is the local bread. Today label, there used to be available there and

23:42 But if men do that, I have always, let you know, one of the things that I noted for now, as I can make bagels, I do I make some, I can make you pay goes right up there with New York Bagels. So I can beat them in their own Game Twitter.

24:04 Anyway, so it's like it's been fun. It's not fun being retired anymore. But to everything there is a season and you just have to embrace it from that viewpoint. But so how big was your staff? That was the largest that our staff was was when we had the UN funding and that gave us the ability to have four different offices going at the same time or us the top of Iraq in the northern area. Where the Croods lived in Assyrian Christians and you took them and some Arabs, but mostly not. Cuz we were a little bit north of that area where most of the people were living. We had 32 people on the staff. At that point. I was one of those 32. And so I think that sometimes people wonder why I've got all these cats,

25:04 Am I? Am I nuts? And I'm not, I just feel like I'm capable of doing something larger and more ambitious than a, lot of people are able to do. And yes, I would, I wish I could but I wanted to go back in 2011 and my dad and my sister and brother didn't want me to go. They were afraid. I would get hurt cuz I'm where I live there. The battery we were at getting difficult human rights problem cases solved and we were getting people who are like political prisoners released from prison. Or you know, where finding information about cases that

25:46 We're really the responsible.

25:49 What did how do I say it? The people that were the main perpetrators of crimes were sometimes the same people were running the government over there? And unfortunately, that's still happening cuz some of the same people are still running the government. So, unfortunately, then a lot of the worst showing tribalist, in. Thor attarian, country and system to have the ability, and the courage and the resources to somehow break out of that. It's really hard to help people change their mindset. And even when people want to, and a lot of young people and others have been protesting. You, do you see like the the protest even in Baghdad, not just the Kurdish, part of the country, but in Baghdad, so many people were killed, as Government forces, and others were interfering with the protests against economic problems and particularly during covid and the lack of economic support.

26:49 But the people were getting and how much delayed some of the payrolls were the people with there. A lot of people that work on the government, payroll in Iraq. And that's kind of what a lot of people expect. I think they're going to get a government job. A job in the ministry, has stopped making salary payments, and we're hold people off for like several people had to somehow still survive and feed their families. People have gotten increasingly distraught about that and have needed to do something to try to change that but and making protests of your such violence used against them, that it makes it a really tough place to be. So right now, I don't want to be there because it isn't safe but I think the day I could have gone back in 2011, with the job. I was offered. It was like a three-month job with Heartland Alliance out of Chicago. It would have been doing some

27:49 Motorworks what I'd already been doing and I feel like it would have been a really good match for me and my interest. So my thought was to go do it for three months. See if I liked it. I was going to bring back by to araki cats with me cuz I even had to guess from Iraq. That I adopt it over there. And when it was time to come back, I brought them with me. I was trying to make a plan for how to get the cats there and how to have a place where all of us could stay at the cats through customs, when you brought him back, and one of them just turned 14 in April. I've still got him and his sister died, six years ago cuz she has some sort of couldn't even figure what it was, but it came and eventually got her. But they were healthy at the time that I brought them. They had their vaccinations. I had to go to the Curtis Ministry of Agriculture to the veterinary Division and get them to sign pay.

28:49 Work to say that the cats were fine for traveling. I had to find an airline that would have correct time with the layover in our cargo area or whatever. So I went on Royal Jordanian Airlines from here, be able to Amman Jordan. We had a little bit of overtime and I was able to see the cats and they're drunk anything. They didn't want to come out and use the cat fan, which I offered to make me happy that I could see them in the middle of the trip. And then we has really long legs. That was from Jordan to New York City. Get that when we got a rented car and came up to Rochester and and they did very well. And in fact, this room that I'm in where I'm doing the interview and I don't know if that'll show up in the photograph that we do at the end. But this is my old bedroom. As I was saying. This is where the cats that I stayed when we first.

29:49 Get back cuz we stayed at my dad's house. Then I got an apartment and we move the cats to the apartment. I went to the Netherlands, about half of your hoping to find work over there, because the economy in America was so poor. At the end of 2009. I couldn't find work and I'm in 2010. I spent five months in the Netherlands and had a wonderful time. But now that it's very, very hard to find apartments for only a few months in the Netherlands. And it's when you're not a member of the European Union. Even though. I spoke other languages. It wasn't the main language in the country that I was in. But I went to the Netherlands mainly because I thought that I'd have the best chance in The Hague of getting International work is there so many patients are the captain. I got to see a lot of different places and sometimes they slept in the car and I

30:49 Time with my cat's for you. I can't, I can't believe you did this without losing anybody along the way, but I ended up coming back to call Terry research job for a couple of months at the Netherlands Society for international law, and it been a member of that for ten years. And I've got to repay my dudes now, because I'm also part of the international law association Dutch Branch. So I've kept up my interests and I wanted to be able to do more International work. There just hasn't been opportunities for that in Rochester. So I did what was available, which was substitute teaching, using my old teaching career, doing a lot of voluntary work with rescue cats, helping people with problems and sometimes local people and sometimes people from Iraq or country.

31:49 Me to ask for help because we did really good work when I live there.

31:53 You know, I bet you there's a book in there, you know, in your, in your life, but I can appreciate your substitute teaching. That's one of the things that I am part of my duties. Also involve. I'm a part-time tutor for mathematics. Once again, I took a d student and I brought her up to an a student, and it did that six months after 2. Really felt good. When I, when I reach the end of that path, and I need to get back into it. No different than you. I need to get back into that. So, you're a substitute teacher now.

32:53 Substitute next year cuz they give us a letter in June, every year for going to be continued. So what do you do? What do you substitute? Teach Ashley and they didn't need substitutes. But by the time November game, they had a need sometimes from people to do, like the online instruction substituting. So there was a special ed teacher, who work together with the Jenna teacher, in the fifth grade classroom. It was all through zoom and they had about Seventeen or eighteen kids in the class and she was on some kind of medical leave. And it wasn't clear when she was coming back, the special ed teacher. So I'm permanently certified in special, ed teaching, for all school-age children. So, I was able to get that opportunity and I could have kept going with it, but it just took up which Elementary School.

33:53 Special ed, but I've done like all different subject areas to sometimes I've done a long-term positions or it's turned into a regular job of doing one when instruction with kids that have either been put out of school because of behavioral problems where there are special needs kids and they haven't yet found the right program for them or the right school. So they're sort of in a limbo area and the school is required to continue instruction. So when working

34:29 Dismissed from school, does not want to go to school, to really enjoyed my working with them, just for a couple of days. In fact, when I did the online instruction, I could only do it like, 9 days before. I realize we came up to Thanksgiving break, and I just couldn't keep going after that because I still was trying to come over and help my dad everyday and had cats to care for and going to suddenly have 35 hours a week that were taken up with the job that hadn't existed until 2 weeks. Earlier. I couldn't rearrange everything else I had to do. So I had to not continue but there were a couple of kids that were like, I think ready to cry and were so upset that I wasn't in the nine days that we worked together online. We have done breakout groups and I work with all the kids in the room at different points and they really liked me and I like them very much. So I wanted to see if I could do it like 2 or 3 days a week which was

35:29 But I've been substituting anyway, when school have been in session with schools, open before covid, but there wasn't any way to divide the job between myself and another special ed substitute. So they said, either you have to do the whole thing or you have to have somebody else take over. And I said, you know, I was really sorry not to be able to continue cuz I enjoyed it. And like you said the same thing for myself. I love teaching because I find learning and a world and different subjects exciting in themselves. But I also find it really a lot of fun to share the enthusiasm of learning with children and I love being able to help kids that are discouraged and feel negative about themselves or don't think they can do something. I love being able to show them compassion and respect and understanding and figure out what it is that they're not able to do. And how do I explain it to them to help them? See that? They really can do some of this and then we build on that and it's just a really wonderful thing.

36:29 Teaching, being able to find a way to help a child. Be more confident, and happier and learn something when they thought they were a failure. So I love teaching and I'll keep teaching next year. I'll do Zumba teacher one-on-one me to come because I was trying really hard not to pick up anything and not everybody was vaccinated. I was in the large, but I didn't want my dad was so Elderly with a breathing problem to pick up covid cuz that would have been the end. And so, my brother and my sister and I, whenever we would come to his house, when we were all really cautious about steps to take, to make sure we weren't bringing teaching in reality. It's a little bit.

37:29 I'm really careful about schools and whether they should be open and he's got a really great job for all the sign or will he run against for governor? He did a good job at least as far as schools and many businesses, go in my opinion. The nursing homes were a hard thing for anyone to tackle capably. They were big mistakes, but with the school so they kept them clothes from the first semester and then gradually started to reopen at least in Rochester City School District. I live in East Irondequoit. And that's one of the few districts that actually did have in person instruction offered earlier on than some of the other districts were doing and you're plenty of kids, and schools are better. Variety of ways that the teaching has worked, but they're doing it in a gradual phase-in. For full time in person instruction. I think they're probably still go.

38:29 They have an option available for parents for next year. I think they have to play it by ear and just see what the situation is. As they go through the summer in terms of whether it's going to be safe to reopen completely. But the hope is that schools could reopen and that there would be an option available if people don't want their children to go in person, but I'm sorry about that. We just have 3 minutes left for my gosh. I can't believe

39:02 I know I thought we had another hour, maybe half an hour in a lot of fun. One more question may be okay. I think I'd like to ask. Dan. What's your favorite item to bake?

39:21 Bagels and, and I need to be at perfectly honest. I've had, I'm old, I'm 73 now and I'm kind of slow tomorrow. I'm slow down my bag baking. But at my height, I had a large Cadre of people who were dependent upon me on making bagels. And I knew I became a serious amateur bigger. When I started to buy bat flower and one hundred pounds increments can do that. There was something there, but I have a question for you to. I want to come back to your ability to pick up foreign languages quickly. That's got to be that first off. That's a very useful. Nice skill to have.

40:21 Do you tribute that to the fact that when you were growing up, your father was multilingual, did heat in your household for you. Did you speak multiple? Languages are my first language that I was familiar with, in addition to English was polish, and I couldn't understand it. But my polish grandmother would baby-sit for us, sometimes lived with us. Of time and she, and my mother would talk together in Polish in the car. And my mom had forgotten how to speak it, but you could understand it. So, they have conversations and us, kids wouldn't know what they were talking about English around me. And once in awhile, you say, a German word or, you know, a little bit of something and yet is because he's lived in New York City for a while. I'm headed picked up yet. If she even though he's not Jewish background, but my mom didn't really do anything with friends other than sometimes saying, but we are singers and musicians. And I think that I picked it up because I've got a musical ear. And if you listen carefully to be

41:21 You're the challenge of the Sounds in the pitches that helps a lot with learning languages. So I'm convinced that musical ability and language learning ability are connected.

41:33 Can I ask one more quick question. This was in the in the biography. You're not the biography but in the handout that we were given earlier, who has been the most influential person in your life. And what did they teach you?

41:53 I thought about that question cuz we looked at those questions right before we start. I don't think there is one person. I think that it's a combination of so many different people. There's no person in particular that I can say, has been most influential when I was a kid. I would have said it was my mother, cuz I was so connected with her. And I looked a lot like her and sounded like her. And everybody said, oh, you look just like your mom and he had a lot of things in common, but we were all so different in some ways for sure. But after I grew up, I don't think I would have been able to answer that question and I can't answer it. Now. I do been too many people that have been influential in my life. I don't have any one particular person.

42:41 Okay.

42:43 Can I ask you one more question, did you ever do cake decorating? Cuz I wanted to take classes in that, but it felt like kind of a waste of money and it takes too long to get good at it and I'd rather just like pumpkin cake with chocolate chips and walnuts and make cookies. You've hit upon one of my coated. Qoutes of baking Co da and Dakota, is this. You can either make something that tastes good. And looks bad. Are you can make, or make something that tastes bad and looks good. And the answer is no, I never took cake, decorating. I mean, that is a skill. That is artistry. It's like a Mona Lisa. Like a portrait on the wall. It's, it's a skill that I do not have you know, if I've been to places where a perfect example is wedding cakes. I've never had a good piece of wedding cake.

43:43 Absolutely stunning and beautiful, but I've never had one that tastes good. And one of my strengths in the sweet department, is kind of a pineapple upside down cake, but it doesn't look pretty and tastes wonderful. And so it's either taste good, looks horrible, looks horrible and tastes good. That's it. I have to say one. Great wedding cake would be carrot cake with cream cheese frosting because when I worked in a natural foods, restaurant in Rochester, back in the early 1980s, a couple of people got married to each other and we bake the cake for them and it was wonderful. And that's what we made. So that was a good and was healthy all at the same time.

44:31 Carrot cake is good. Can't take this. Very good. Well, are we out of time?

44:39 But this was so wonderful. Thank you so much. I'm going to send the recording now.