Danielle Varner and Paul Pierce

00:02 Good morning. I am Danielle Patterson. Varner. I am 42 years old. It is Friday. October 15th, 2021. We are in Columbus Georgia and I am interviewing Paul Pierce, my colleague and friend.

00:19 I'm Paul Pierce age 68, it's Friday, October 15th, 2021. We are in Columbus Georgia. My interview partner is Danielle Varner and she is a colleague and friend.

00:39 Sir, Paul.

00:40 What inspired you to start a career in the theater? Well, it didn't come naturally at first because I grew up in a small town, in a high school that did not have a drama program. I come from a family of storytellers and I didn't know that because everyone around me was telling stories and apparently, I picked up that and it was really a minister who said to me one time when I was floundering in my last year of high school. He you said, you know, I don't know what you're going to be doing in your career, but I'm sure it has something to do with the stage. And I said, he said, you know of where you entertain, you get on stage and you entertain people and they pay you for it. I said that's a job and that's something you could do for a living.

01:40 So ultimately, I went to college. Neither my parents graduate from college and I didn't really know what I was going to do, but I went to the University of Georgia mainly for girls and beer and but a girl in my math class, invited me to go see a play with her in the theater department. And so, I went to see this children's theater play and I was just knocked out by people remember their lines that were lighting, the ra costumes, it was exciting, and I just sort of looked at it and said, you know, I could do that. And so I've declared myself a drama major at that point again. I knew nothing, I really do nothing, but I ended up doing pretty well. I think and right out of college, the big big.

02:36 Break, I guess I got was to be hired by this wonderful theater company out of Texas called, Repertory Theater of America, and it was the producer and founder of the company. Was This brilliant man named Drexel, Riley, who had this company for 30 years in which he

03:01 He was committed to taking great theater to America's smallest towns. And so I was in that company that there were three different touring units. Each one unit had three or four shows. It was great theater, Man For All Seasons back at Shaw's St. Joan Beckett's, Waiting for Godot etcetera. And so we were performing these shows all over America in the smallest house in gymnasiums and libraries, and just wherever there was a space and we were able to take us simple lighting system, sound system and, and us into the spaces and perform a show mainly one-nighters.

03:50 And I learned that there was a hunger.

03:55 For theater and a storytelling. And I was a Storyteller anyway, and so the idea of theater as service was something that was introduced to me by by Drexel Riley. And I really took that into the rest of my career to feel like, hey look after a while. I realized New York and Broadway was just, we're going to be just fine without Paul Pierce. And so what can I do to make the world a better place? And so I concentrated on America's smaller Mercedes. So you've been around a lot, you've toured a lot. So, what brought you to Columbus and what is the Springer opera house? So, I have already been the director of a couple of other theaters, the Harbor Playhouse in Corpus Christi, Texas, the Whiteside theater in Virginia.

04:50 And actually I saw a listing in a industry magazine that showed a search was going on in Columbus Georgia, and I thought there's work in Georgia. And so I applied for the job interview. And it was a right place at the right time and it was perfect. This printer was suffering from severe financial problems. At the time, the building which is currently a 150 year old American National Historic, Landmark Theater.

05:26 I was really in bad shape needed love and needed, help and needed money. And I just thought this is something I could devote my life to doing, bringing this to get her back to life, raising the money to renovate it properly, and to put a first-class Theater Company together here. Wow. In theater, for over 40 years. 40 for years. How is the American Theatre evolved in those?

05:55 In the past years. Well, American Theater is a somewhat Oddity, among industrialized nations in that the American Theater. Like all of the Arts really does not get a lot of government funding to support it. You may have noticed when you go to other countries in Germany and Great, Britain, and so forth. Theater ticket prices are a lot lower than they are in America and that's because they're subsidized so much. So the American Theater has to fight for survival some theaters like the supreme or a house has a high rate of earned income monthly from ticket sales, where 73% of income comes from earned income, but there are some American theaters where that, that are even a lot bigger than the Springer where their earned income.

06:55 Only maybe 20% and 80% is contributed Revenue. So every theater has to find its own model for survival, and I would say the thing that has a happened in America theater over my career, is that it has generally, gotten more commercial in order for these theaters to survive and to support the Hughes facilities that the rent that isn't to say that there isn't some great work going on in new works. In American regional theater certainly is and that's a big part of our program as well. But the mission is constantly being tested. And so the answer to that question to me is that the American Theater has gotten more commercial with my career when you say that new works are just as important maybe.

07:55 Commercial tiles in a way, it's more important even though it doesn't drive the the same degree of ticket sales, new works for American Theater. Is It soul? That's what makes the theater. People get up in the morning and charge it to work to do the hard work for not much money. It's the idea that there are stories to be told that are essential to community and to society and those typically are the new works. Commissioned works for instance. And and that's, that's kind of where we we have it.

08:41 So one question for our listeners, who might not know what our new work.

08:46 Yes, new works are completely new plays that have never been produced before. So for instance, the Springer might commission a playwright to write a new play and then we producer and help that playwright develop the work so that it can go on to be produced at other theaters.

09:14 So this past 18 months has been pretty hard on American, and especially hard on on theaters for the Springer. What do you think our successes were and do you think we had any failures? And do you think we're out of the woods yet? But we're certainly not out of the woods. We are firmly in the woods, I would say because it will take a while for audiences to feel comfortable about coming back to the public assembly. However, I embrace this challenge.

09:50 Are all being tested. There is a moment when we've had to pause and reflect on who we are, what our mission is and what we want to be an accomplished of the future. And so that has definitely happened. We had to close down our season in the spring of 2020. We did most of our season last year in an outdoor theater that we built in our parking lot and we kept theater do it didn't generate the revenue we needed, but it kept us engaged with our audience. And I've learned in the past year.

10:39 That what we thought we were doing.

10:45 It turned out, we were actually doing and that is being engaged with our audiences and being essential to their lives. And so, once we put up the shows outdoors in the theater that we built and people started coming. It was clear that they were hungry to return and it was a reminder that we did the right thing by not laying everybody off and crawling into a bunker and waiting for the whole thing to disappear. If we had done that, we may not

11:30 Have survived. All right, but staying engaged with audiences and remembering the theater is essential to people's lives in the community because storytelling is essential to people's lives and the stories Define who we are, what our identity is. It's just like families of you. You go to Thanksgiving and everybody sits around the table and ultimately they tell stories and the children realize after a couple of years that they're hearing some of the same stories over and over again. And

12:15 That when you get older you realize gosh, those stories that I heard growing up. That's who our family is. That's our identity and the same thing goes for America all theater.

12:29 The storytelling that we share really is the identity of the communities that we serve. And and the pandemic has really emphasized that I believe a for our organization. Now, I will say that at the same time that we've had this challenge with the, we also had this historic racial Reckoning and that those two things have happened almost at the same time and rather than being exasperated by both of those challenges. At the same time. I think our organization has benefited from it because we have embraced it and said, you know,

13:25 You wanted to live an interesting life, didn't you went when you got into this business? You wanted it to be interesting, didn't you? We live in interesting times. So let's embrace it and see what we can do to make ourselves better and how we might be able to improve the institution of the American Theater through it and some of it has to do with developing our staff, developing our board and developing our audiences. And again returning to the question of, who are we here to serve and what can we do to be more essential to them? Exactly?

14:15 So where do you see the Springer in 10 years? What does the future look like for the Springer Opera House? Well, a lot of time and energy and we raced a lot of money. Let's face it in my 33 years as director of the Springer. We've conducted to 12 million-dollar Capital campaigns much of which was for restoration of this Historic Landmark, but the other part is investing in people and investing in the programs.

14:51 I believe very strongly that we have set the table.

14:56 For the Springer opera house to move up to the very top tier of American regional theater. We are doing

15:05 All kinds of interesting things. We are commissioning new works.

15:10 All those new works are moving on to other theaters of, we're continuing to tell the stories of the in commercial theater as well. We have a main stage series. We have a studio series. We have a children's theater series. We have a theater for the very young for rosaries, and we've got a theater Academy with about 1,000 students in it and in a lot of other interesting things that we're doing in arts education.

15:44 But I believe that.

15:49 Innovation collaboration and quality.

15:54 Is what is making us, sort of a rising institution in American regional theater? And that after I retire, I'm not ready to do that yet. But Danielle, you will likely be leading the Springer opera house at some point and I'm doing everything I can right now to.

16:19 Provide the resources attract the donations and engage with the institutions that are going to allow you to take the Springer opera house up to the very top tier of American regional theater. Thank you Paul. Heavy shoes to feel like being a part of the Springer for almost 20 years has taught me a lot. So let's talk about you know, when that time comes and and Paul Pierce's is not at the Springer which I hope does not happen ever. But what would you want to be known for your? A mentor? You're a teacher. You're a Storyteller. You're a producer. You're an actor or director. You're so many things. But what is one thing that you really want to be known for? I don't know. I don't really.

17:14 I don't really think in terms of my legacy except to say that I want this institution that I've spent 33 years of fighting for to really do something special. Not just for Columbus Georgia, which is going to be essential, but to the American regional theater Movement. We have a company value. And in fact, it's on the wall in our Green Room.

17:44 Our company value is kindness and there's a lot of theater and arts going on where kindness is not really at the top of people's less when it comes to producing the work. And my view is that unless we're kind to one another, we will never create great art. And so

18:11 You know, it's a simple thing, but I hope that maybe after they push me out on the iceberg and I float away. That that the thing that will be left is that the Springer opera house is a creative Community with kindness as its company value.

18:38 So you've worked with a lot of people fall, who do you think has been the most influential person in your artistic path? Will? No doubt. It's a Drexel 8, Riley, the founder of the Repertory Theatre of America. He was a minister before. He got into professional theater. He was grew up, very poor in South Texas. No one in his family had ever gone to college but his older sister paid for him to go to Baylor and he ended up getting his master's degree. He became part of the original acting company at the Dallas theater center when it was founded under Paul Baker. But his desire

19:33 For the theater to be somewhat of a church, I would say, really drove the quality of his work and the passion of his work overtime. And that's why Repertory Theatre of America going to all these small communities and filling a void that was definitely there.

19:56 Cause me to think of theater.

20:00 As a service that the theater was not hear from me.

20:05 The audience is we're not hear from me.

20:09 We are there for the community. We are there for people and service collaboration.

20:20 Innovation.

20:23 Equality were really everything and nothing I've done. Since I homework for Drexel Riley beginning in 1977 has changed about that. Now, I will say that when I was performing at RTA and all these little communities in all of these sort of questionable facilities. Never did, I dream that one day, I would be the director of a big formal beautiful lavish historic theater in Columbus, Georgia. It's a very formal theater. One of the most beautiful theaters in American. I'm proud that we've been able to raise the money to do a complete historic preservation on it.

21:14 But it's really Drexels influence on me. I cannot be understated, everything important that I learned about producing theater. I learned from him.

21:28 So why do you think the Springer is so essential to this community in Columbus? Well, I think in a way, the Springer has always been there at moments of transformation for this town. After the Civil War, when our foundries in textile mills were burned down. Columbus was in a terrible economic depression and there was a kind of a sense of what's going to become of us and this little immigrant from a town called. Marlin. I'm in Alsace sort of raised his hand. He was a grocer here. He raised his hand and said European style opera house and I'm going to put the money together to build it.

22:22 And so at the time of Columbus's worst economic woes after the Civil War and immigrant Rises up and says, you know what we can do, we can put this town on the map by building, one of the great theaters in amateur cut and that's what happened. More investment, more downtown business Columbus, grew in population and the world started traveling to Columbus, because there was something happening on that stage and off. And I think the same thing happened in 1965 when the downtown was a victim of a

23:10 Urban sprawl, lots of people move to the outskirts of town, and the downtown was a sort of out of the elbows.

23:22 And when this group of people decided to save it from the wrecking ball, which was actually happening. They A, A Wrecking Company had been hired to flatten the theater to make space for a parking lot for the new government center group of people stopped it raised the money and saved it and in 1965, there was theater on that stage again.

23:53 And guess what happened? Capital investment flowed into downtown more people move back into downtown. They were savings a lot of the historic properties. The historic Columbus Foundation was founded the next year, and that moment in the city's history. The Springer opera house was there. And it instigated all of this stuff, all of this transformation. And I think that, if you look at our 1998 renovation, we put 12 million dollars.

24:28 Are restoring the building from the foundation up to the roof. We invested in, in equipment, for the stage and our programs. And guess what happened after that.

24:42 Continued investment continued growth in downtown. And now the riverfront which Columbus had turned its back on is now alive. And is a major regional destination for tourists. And so my feeling is the Springer has always been there as a catalyst for Change and transformation in this community. And that our storytelling

25:13 Has been a big part of that and that we continue to tell the stories, which actually ultimately make Columbus, a wealthier happier, more productive City.

25:28 Well, there have been a lot of storytellers on our stage and we have had.

25:32 So many people Grace. Springer stage. Tell me one person that really left an impact on you that his grace is Springer stage. We've had so many people America's greatest Shakespearean, Edwin Booth, perform Hamlet on our stage, Ma Rainey. I mean the list goes on and on, but more in recent years our friend Hal Holbrook actually has come to the spring or several times and not only has he performed his One, Man. Mark Twain show several times, but he he's done other things with us that really had to do with the historic preservation and he's been there for a couple of different events and really

26:32 Loaned his voice as a voice of a advocacy for the Springer opera house. And I've grown to be a Groove to be friends with him, visited him in his home in Los Angeles. And we we had a long written correspondence together and I'm proud to say that to it. When he died recently, that, that we were

27:01 I could call him a friend, but he was because he had traveled all over America for so long, performing Mark Twain. Tonight. She had performed in America's great historic theaters. And when he landed in Columbus and grew to love our theater, it was clear that we had found the, we had found a friend and we were found a a member of our family that that inspired us. Not feel like we inspired him as well.

27:41 Absolutely.

27:43 So he was one of your favorites. Tell me as an actor or a director. You have directed so many shows and played so many roles. What is there? One of your favorites, an actor as an actor? I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I can really answer that. I've worked with so many great to American actors of you know, our friend Brian ready. Who had

28:16 Done a lot of filming in in theater in Broadway and American regional theater. And, you know, he'd worked with the Coen brothers and

28:30 Scorsese and how many does I really enjoy working with Brian? Is it a great man of the American Theater, but our friend test Kincaid in in Atlanta or such a fabulous actor, but I think there's a lot of times it's a Young Unknown actor that we had recently met an audition who just gets cast of the show and lands in my rehearsal Hall, and I'm sitting there, the first week of rehearsals, save my God. This is one of America's great actors and she or he is completely unknown. I can't believe this. And it's a reminder that great artists are found everywhere, right? And that we have to be open to

29:25 The notion that when they,

29:29 Somehow in their way washed up on our Shores that we have a responsibility to encourage them, develop them, and help them move to the next level, if we can. But it's also a reminder that aren't we? Lucky, aren't we lucky to do? What we do. We look for actors all over the country and

29:57 All the times. We're just looking to fill a certain role in a certain show, but these extraordinary people.

30:06 Come to us and we have the Great.

30:11 Luck.

30:12 To be able to, to share something creative with them.

30:18 Will you have a lot of knowledge to give young actors young people who are looking to go into Arts management? Maybe what is one piece of advice that you would give an actor or someone who's looking to go into the Arts as a career? Well, people always want to know where do I start? And my answer is start somewhere. It does not matter where you start if it's a a church play or Community Theater, if it's something that you decide to do it, some storefront, go ahead and do it and whether you are paid or not for those first things getting on stage and having that that first few experiences is everything.

31:09 Things aren't just going to unfold for you. The world is not waiting for you. And so you got to do the work first to make sure that that you have some experience, some chops and that you've experienced some bumps along the way. So that when you do get in the room with a professional company, starting from Ground Zero, the other part of this is and we talked about using the term of being in the room where it happens or do whatever you can to get in that room. I'll sometimes it's a matter of volunteering at a theater. People get to know, you know, your name and then you will get to see or whether some opportunities there.

32:06 Just to be able to ask somebody in charge. What else can I do?

32:10 And it may be an internship or an apprenticeship. It may be a part-time help in the box office or if your technician over hire, part-time working a scene, shop or costume, shop, something like that. Get in the door because believe it or not. Theaters are looking for help.

32:35 A whole lot of the time. It we think of maybe these are sort of Ivory Tower institutions where it's hard to get in. There's a place to get in, right. There's a place to get in and so I say start somewhere but you were talking about Arts Administration for who the one thing I would say is there is a demand

32:57 Full-time Arts, administrators development, officers, community outreach people, and these are full-time year-round jobs and 24. People that are starting to get in the theater. I would say, don't imagine that the acting is the be-all and end-all of the people that are making the decisions about how theaters move and go and turn and and survive. They are.

33:34 In that category of Arts administrator and and there's a place for that. You're well on your journey, Danielle you started in the box office, right? I did.

33:47 19 years ago, this question. So we need to wrap up but what is the

33:56 Your journey, I would say starting in the box, office is the best start because you are on the phone with the patrons. You're on the phone with the donors. You are on the phone constantly, but you are getting to know these people and these people start to become your friends. And that was the best building block for me. Because I have been talking to our board members. I've been talking to people that send us money every month and we built this relationship. And that I think, is key to success in the theater, is building relationships. No matter what position, you're in Weatherby box office development or management, build those relationships and make those relationship strong. That's really where it's the idea that the customer is in your ear by everyday.

34:47 And then you're selling them tickets and then you moved on to development. You were doing fundraising. Well, it was a lot easier when you knew the patron. Exactly. And now you are managing director of one of America's great theater, companies started in the Box in the box office. That's what like said. That would be a key. So I think we've done a great conversation today. I have learned things that I did not know and we talk everyday and I think that this has been one of the best conversations that you and I've had. Well, that's great. You know, you know, I'm one of the things we have talked about is that we've got a group of people in this theater right now, who really

35:37 Come from the working class. Our families did not go to the great Elite schools. I arts or anything like that. We are working people. I grew up in working the grocery stores and lumber yards and driving a truck and I will work for garbage disposal company for a while. I was a bus driver janitor and all this kind of stuff. You have the same thing. I work in radio. I worked selling manufactured home. I want the post office briefly. I waited tables for college. So yeah, I know about hard work and find it. Interesting that if you look around our staff, there's a lot of people like us to lately and that really has helped. I think the sort of, entrepreneurial spirit in our organization that these people come to work and they are accustomed to

36:37 And they, they don't come from the higher ranks of American Education or anything like that. I got college degrees most of them but you know, that idea that we show up to work to innovate and that make the entrepreneurial Spirit, really is very much alive in our organization. Absolutely. Well, it's been just a

37:09 Wonderful, visit here Danielle. I feel like I talk too much and you talked to little, but I guess that's a pretty typical isn't everything that you're saying. So I'm taking it all in and I've been taking it in for 20 years and that's also been how I got where I am today is listening and taking notes on. What makes this the year, what it is. Well, we are we're very lucky people. People sometimes say, you know, you're not lucky. You're blessed, not think about it say no. I'm lucky. I have to say, I, I guess I was ready for opportunity when it came my way, but

37:55 I just feel that.

38:00 Some of it is sick, feels like chance and I wonder how did I get. So doggone lucky?

38:09 Hey, we got still got a lot of work to do a lot of things to accomplish and so I'm looking forward to the continuation of our journey together. Danielle. I am team, only just begun.

38:22 So thank you for for doing this today. Paul. Really, really enjoyed it. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.