David Chavez and Omar Chavez

[00:00] DAVID CHAVEZ: Hi, my name is David chavez. I am 29 years old. It is February 4th, 2023. We're in El Paso, Texas, and I'm here with Omar, who is my brother.

[00:12] OMAR CHAVEZ: Hello, my name is Omar chavez. It is February 4, 2023. We're here in El Paso, Texas and I'm here with my brother, David Chavez. So, David, let's get started. We're here today to have a conversation about basketball in Al Barrio.

[00:31] DAVID CHAVEZ: That's right. So, Omar, really quickly, just to get us started, you want to explain what Basketball in the Barrio is?

[00:39] OMAR CHAVEZ: Sure. So Basketball in El Barrio is a long standing basketball camp that has been hosted here in El Paso, Texas, downtown. It is a camp where kids ages 5 through 13 come to learn dribbling skills. Dribbling basketball skills as well as other things. What is really great about this camp is that it doesn't only focus on the skills of dribbling, but it also teaches you a lot about the culture here and about life. Do you recall your first experience when you joined Basketball in El Barrio?

[01:18] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, I do. And just to piggyback off of that, and I'll answer your question, but basketball and Abarrio? Yeah, it's much more than just a basketball camp, which is really, really great. Right. So it encompasses basketball, but also community outreach and entertainment as well, which we'll talk about a little bit later. Probably the first memory I have is actually you as a camper. Me with my mom watching you be a camper. I still wasn't old enough to be a camper. I think I was probably maybe 3 or 4 years old and I was dying to get out there and dying to be part of everything, right? Part of the basketball, be with you, part of the activities. So that was probably my very first memory of the camp itself. But the very first memory of me actually being a camper is probably the very first time where during the camp, as you know, they'd separate us into like these different groups, right? Different colored shirts and a bunch of energy and you get placed with your group. You don't know any of the other kids there. So it was really nerve wracking, especially for a kid like me that hasn't always been comfortable in his own skin. So a lot of times it was kind of difficult to just make friends in an impromptu situation like that. But from there, as you know, I mean, it's loads of fun. What about you? What's your first memory?

[02:54] OMAR CHAVEZ: Well, just to talk a little bit further about that, it's funny you mention it, I was recently talking to steve yellen and coach Russ, both who started the camp. And they were basically telling me that you practically grew up in that camp. They remember seeing you there at 3 years old, and they saw the entire progression, you know, as you grew up, you went into middle school, high school, and then when you graduated, I don't know if you remember, when you graduated from high school, you graduated valedictorian, but you also, on top of receiving a full scholarship to utep, you also won a basketball and al barrio scholarship as well. You were honored with that. And they were just basically talking how you were one of the few campers that that kind of went in there, from being practically a infant to now being a young man. And the very first, for me recollection I have basketball. Barrio is the first day of camp. I'm pretty sure you remember dad was always into baseball. That was his first sport, his first love. And that's what he tried guiding me to. But unfortunately, it was very boring for me. They put me out in the. What is it, the outfield. And I mean, the ball was never hit out there. So, I mean, I started playing in the sand. I was just not paying attention. So he wanted us to play sports, of course, because he had done so himself. And he took me to that camp. The great thing about the camp is, you know, at that time, it was only $1, $1 for the entire three days the camp. So I went in there and I was not the most athletic kid. I'm pretty sure you remember.

[04:41] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah.

[04:42] OMAR CHAVEZ: Unlike you, who I believe had a lot more naturally given talent. I was totally opposite. So I remember the first few times, you know, the struggle to learn the dribbling skills, to kind of show off my capabilities, not only to the other coaches, to the other kids, but to my dad. But I do recall that it was a excellent learning experience. It was something different for me, something I had never experienced. And I think it really propelled us to excel not just in basketball, but in life. Another recollection I have is of you. Like I stated, you were very talented right away. And I recall that your skills exploded. I mean, you were a great dribbler in a short time, and I don't remember, but you qualified to join the mini dribblers. And I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about what the mini dribblers did and where they presented themselves, you know, half time at the college games.

[05:54] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah. So the mini dribblers were a group of kids that were chosen primarily from the camp. Now there were some kids that didn't necessarily attend the camp. So it wasn't necessarily exclusive to campers, but it was a group where you would practice those fundamental basketball skills. And obviously in the name, mini dribbler dribbling was also a big part of, of our practices and the different things that we would do. And essentially we would obviously practice these fundamental skills, but we'd also do it in a way where it was also entertaining. Right. So it would be doing tricks with a basketball and you'd have these kids. And we're talking not necessarily older kids, right? So we're talking kids that are elementary age doing these amazing things with the basketball. So we would present in different events. Right. So for example, if there was a college basketball game right at halftime, like that would that, that would be kind of like the show for it. And yeah, it was super exciting. Again, it was super, super nerve wracking. And I was always scared to be out there, but at the same time, I always found I always felt comfortable with a basketball, which is, which is a big reason why I've continued to kind of stay close with the sport. But yeah, I remember that. I remember that first time, those first camps where we'd go in and I'd see something new and I was so, so bad at it the first time, But I'd really want to just do it as well as the coaches or as well as the instructors or a lot of the junior coaches that were there that were like former campers but now they were coaching. Like, I kind of wanted to be as good or better than them. And that always, always kind of pushed me to, I guess, challenge myself in a way. And obviously, like you mentioned, like, I appreciate you saying I had a little bit more natural athletic ability, but like you said, a lot of times for you, you had to really work hard and try super, super hard in order to compete. Right. Whether it was at the camp in anything we did athletically in basketball. And that was always something that kind of helped me to get that. But again, back to the camp, right? So we focused a lot about on like the basketball aspects of the camp. Do you remember some of the other aspects? And I don't know if you want to talk about some of that.

[08:40] OMAR CHAVEZ: I do, I do. But first of all, just I wanted to mention a little bit more about the dribbling. Yeah, I remember coming into the camp and I thought it was going to be a lot of shooting, you know, a lot of, you know, playing, you know, five on five, one on one, three on three, and I didn't really fully appreciate what the camp was about in basket in the basketball sense, until there was that one commercial, I don't know if you remember, where NBA stars would come out and then they started doing some really cool rhythm with the basketball.

[09:13] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yes.

[09:13] OMAR CHAVEZ: A bunch of different dribbling. And that's, I think, the moment where I decided, wow, you know what? I want to improve on my skills. I want to be able to do that. And that's how I got motivated to improve my skills as well as, you know, our dad made us practice every single day, every single afternoon. So that also helped get improving. But now touching a little bit more on what else the camp does. And I think a great part of the camp is that it not only focuses on basketball, but it focuses on the culture. Here in El Paso, we're a very diverse culture. We're a bordered town, so we have those Mexican American roots. And I think they do a great job at bringing that to the forefront. They bring really great individuals to come talk to us. One of my earliest recollection is boxing. Juan Lascano, he was a world champion here from El Paso, from our local high school in Bowie. And he would come and talk to us kids about the opportunities we have, about how we can succeed. And I think that really left a lasting impression of me because it wasn't only necessarily a basketball camp, but it was a camp of life. It was a camp about my past, my heritage, and it was a camp about what I could achieve in the future. What about you? How did you feel towards the camp?

[10:56] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, I mean, the aspects outside of basketball is really what makes it special. And it's not necessarily to discount the basketball aspects of it, because I think that obviously it's still a basketball camp, and it's kind of focused on improving your skills. Right. It's focused on dribbling and a lot of these different fundamental things. But they also bring in this aspect of culture and this aspect of community and these aspects of skill building that was really, really special. Right. So especially in the most recent camps where they have an art station. Right. And that's really, really great because it's not necessary. The camp's purpose really isn't to make every single camper the best basketball player. That's not really the point. It's more about the skills that campers get from basketball or from art or from music or from literature. And I remember they'd bring in storytellers a lot, Right. Where they'd. And authors from this community and from all across the United States. And you'd be able to hear these stories about hardship, about triumph, about overcoming odds. Right. And Juan Lascana was a big part of that as well, where he was from here. Right. And just some background for those of you that aren't necessarily or don't necessarily know El Paso. El Paso is. Isn't necessarily a community that is very affluent. Like, it's. I think El Segundo Barra has been ranked as one of the poorest neighborhoods in the entire United States for a lot of years. Right. So it's a community that economically isn't necessarily as lucky as other parts of either El Paso and definitely other parts of the state and the country. So having those types of examples and role models and stories being told to kids like us, where a lot of times we do see a lot of the negative side of life and of things, Right. Where you see that, you see how this guy who's just like us and talks like us became a world champion in boxing or a gentleman who wasn't necessarily the best athlete, but hey, he could really tell stories and became a renowned author. Right. So it was really, really inspirational to see that stuff. So it was, it's important, it's important to be able to find those role models. And I think basketball in the barrio was a great avenue for, I think, for all the campers involved, including me, and I'm sure including you, to be able to find those role models outside of. Obviously we had great parents and we've had a great family, but it's always good to have those outside factors influencing you. Yeah.

[14:04] OMAR CHAVEZ: And then talking a little bit about family, I just want to butt in a little bit. I just want to say how the camp really created that essence of family, because even though some of these coaches, some of these students or participants, you would only see them once a year. You know, you'd come together those three days in June and you just kind of feel like it's one big part family. I remember there came a time where, you know, I graduated high school, I started going to college, started working, so I was unable to attend the camp every single year. Likewise you did. But it's such a pleasant thing when we would see our parents continue to go even though we weren't going, even though they weren't going to see someone in particular, they were still going to support the camp, see the coaches, talk to them, kind of see what the camp was all about, and basically, you know, they would be our stand in, and then they would come to us, relay the message, and, you know, Next year. We were there trying to, you know, find ways to find time to give back to the community. I think you touched a really good point on, you know, the type of economic hardship this community sometimes suffers. And I once again want to say that the great part of the about the camp wasn't necessarily the basketball aspect either. It was the fact that they would only charge $1, and that dollar went a lot. I don't know if you remember, we were provided lunch every day at the end of the camp. We left with the basketball. We left with books, posters with inspirational messages.

[15:43] DAVID CHAVEZ: A couple of years with shoes.

[15:45] OMAR CHAVEZ: Couple of years with basketball shoes. Yes. So I think all that really brought the camp together, and it just kind of showed us that, hey, you know what? We could succeed. We could succeed in sports, we could succeed in life. And then once we do become successful, I think that's the most important aspect of it, giving back. So I know both you and I, we've. We've done a lot for the camp of fundraising, we've donated our time, and I think we both feel lucky because at the end of the day, we want to make sure, just like we were inspired by those many people that came to talk to us, that came to coach us, we want to guide that next generation of people here in our community into reaching great heights.

[16:37] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah. And I think sports, and that's why the camp is so special. Right? And it seems like we keep going back to just how special it is, but it is. And it's because it's this. This combination of these different things that singularly would have a huge impact on a young person's life. So, for example, athletics. So that's kind of like the main part of the camp. So a sport like basketball is great in order to not only obviously teach athletic ability and these different skills, but to teach these life skills about hard work, about teamwork. Being able to work with others is such a huge part of our world and our lives today, especially as adults, right? Where I don't think you can have a career without being able to interact with others. Social skills. So those social skills are super important that you learn in athletics. Obviously, a healthy lifestyle is important. So basketball in itself and just a basketball camp in general, just a regular basketball camp, does wonders to help promote that. But then you start adding these different components, right? You add that culture aspect where now you're learning either more about your own culture for someone like us that is of, like, Hispanic background, and you're around mariachi music and you're around bilingual books and bilingual authors. Yeah, Folklorico. So these different. These different types of cultural traits that are part of our culture, but obviously not every single camper was actually of Hispanic descent. So for those campers, it was like, hey, this is a completely different culture for me. It's a completely different way of thinking, which is really, really great. And I think it's Shakespeare, and I might be wrong, but Shakespeare once said, having a second language is like having a second soul. And it's really, really great because I think the camp does a great job of doing that, not necessarily just through language, but through culture and having these different cultural backgrounds as well. And then finally, yeah, like that community outreach where you're supporting these kids that have gone through economic hardships and providing them those skills. Not just basketball skills, but art skills, life skills. That's really great. So I think that the combination of the camp as a whole was really, really great. And then obviously, a lot of great people encompass that camp. Right. So for me, obviously, Russ Bradburn was the guy that would kind of run the camp, especially basketball wise. Right. Where, like, Steve was kind of like the hot guy behind the scenes, but not really, because if you know Steve, he's probably the loudest person in the world. But Russ was really great because he was really stoked. And as a kid, I was always super afraid of him.

[20:04] OMAR CHAVEZ: I do remember that.

[20:06] DAVID CHAVEZ: But you'd watch him, like, dribble, and you'd actually see him and right away see him, like, actually show his basketball skills and his basketball knowledge, and right away was, like, instant credibility towards it. Like, especially the young kids, but even, like, adults, like, knowing him and knowing his background as a coach as well, it's instant credibility, I think.

[20:29] OMAR CHAVEZ: Would you say that that camp, and particularly coach Russ had a positive impact on you later becoming a basketball coach yourself?

[20:40] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, I think so. I think it was my first coaching experience. If you actually go back and if I go back and think about it where I got to the point where I was, what, like 12 or like 11? And obviously it got to the point where, like, hey, like, I think I'm getting to that point where I'm a little too old to be a camper. Right, Right. But at the same time, I don't want to stop having that experience and stop going. So I started being one of the coaches. Right. And at first it was like, hey, help out in this station. And then afterwards it's like, hey, maybe you run this station. And then after that it's like, hey, maybe you just run this entire team, right? And it was really great. And it was surprising for me too, because I've always been very introverted at times. And I don't think most people expected me to be a coach just because again, I was always a very shy, kind kid. So once I was in that environment and I was given the opportunity to do that and that belief in me, I think that's what, what kind of helped me be like, hey, well, this is something I enjoy doing. And then from there it just grew where I got an opportunity out of high school to coach and then from there. But yeah, I would kind of go back to that experience in basketball in the barrio where they believed in me and they had that faith in me. And like, hey, like, yeah, you have the ability, not just basketball wise, but you also have the temperament to kind of help and motivate and inspire these kids, which I'm really, really thankful for. Because I mean, without an opportunity, most of us really can't find that level of success that we'd want. And without me knowing back then, I wasn't like, oh, yes, this is my first step into having a coaching career. Yeah, but I wasn't thinking that as an 11 year old, as a 12 year old. But looking back at it, it really was right. And it goes back again to the special group of people that you have at a camp like that where people have that belief in you. Right. Do you remember anyone else from that camp?

[23:06] OMAR CHAVEZ: Yeah. It's funny you mentioned, you said you didn't know at 11:12 that you wanted to do something. And it's funny you mentioned that because actually when I met Steve growing up, I mean, I think I was five when I first met Steve, the other founder of the camp. And I didn't know exactly what he did. I didn't know exactly what he did outside of the camp. But as I started going more, we started growing closer together with coach Russ, with Steve, I found out that he was a financial advisor. And I actually, you know, funny you say you had no idea. At age 12, I knew I wanted to be a financial advisor. I related to Steve multiple times. I started paying attention more in math, in my econ classes. And it got to the point where, like you said, these coaches, these instructors, they're able to see you and they're able to see the type of effort you put into the camp. They're able to see the type of person you become watching you for so many years that eventually after I graduated from college, Steve actually helped me get my foot in the door in Ameriprise. Financial. And I want to say it was because of a lot, because of him, his guidance, his mentorship, that I am now the financial advisor that I am today. And I think that there are a lot of stories like ours and I hope that one day a lot of them are heard, because I'm sure that both Coach Russ and Steve have inspired a massive amount of kids and they've left a very positive impact in their lives. And I do hope, and I'm sure you as well, that one day were able to emulate that type of positive impact into others, going into other people that I remember, I do remember actually coaching a kid. And Jose Pena and I coached him, I think, when he was 5. And funny story about this is that eventually you ended up coaching him in middle school, right?

[25:24] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, I did.

[25:26] OMAR CHAVEZ: It just goes to show how such a, you know, how everything comes full circle. Both you and I, we coached at Parkland Middle School for about three years, and it was probably one of the best experience I've ever had personally, outside of, you know, being in camp with you and learning these skills more than even playing basketball, was actually getting an opportunity to coach alongside with you, because I was able to see the type of coach you had become thanks to the life's lessons and the skills you acquired at basketball and El barrio. The thing that I always tell people that makes you a great coach is not necessarily your knowledge for the game, your tactician, your strategies, but is it's the way you make your players play above and beyond their potential. It's so amazing to see what you're able to bring out of them. It's like you coach them and in insight, they truly believe they could make every shot. They truly believe that they're taller than what they are. They truly believe that they're faster than what they are. And that's just something that I feel like cannot be taught. That's something that comes from within you. But I feel like the camp, like you said, helped you open up and helped you develop that skill and bring it out and now share it with the world and with all your players.

[26:58] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, definitely. And going back to Jose, who we all knew as Chino, quite frankly, I'd forgotten his name was Jose, but Chino, it was a good callback, right? Because we got that job. And especially me, I was right out of high school. So it got to the point where I'd walk into the gym and like, security people would confuse me as a student.

[27:23] OMAR CHAVEZ: It was before the facial hair came.

[27:25] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, it was before the facial hair. So we'd show up. Right. And Chino recognized you, but obviously he had that connection. And having that connection really did help. Right. Because he was a kid that obviously was from ensigno barrio like us, ended up having a similar trajectory like us, where he moves to northeast El Paso. But. But you still kind of have the Segundo barrio kind of vibe in you. Right. And it was, it was nice to see that. Right. So. So it gave me that connection obviously with him. And then ultimately it helped me gain that connection with that group of kids that were just absolutely fantastic. But yeah, I mean, the camp really helped me open up. And like, that's. That's the great thing about it, is that you. The effect is going to be different for every single person. Right. For some people, it might not have been a personality thing where they are able to open up, or it might be more skill driven where, hey, like, if I work harder, if I do this or if I organize my time here, I can do this. Or it might be more basketball driven where they just improved a lot as a basketball player because of it. But yeah, I mean, it's a great, a great, great group of people. And like you said, it makes everyone go back where a lot of the adults in the most recent years, a lot of the adults are former campers because they kind of know the power of, of the camp and they know the importance of kind of giving back to the community and giving back to those kids. Not necessarily so they can become like you, but in order for them to, at least if they can learn whatever you have to teach, whether it's about basketball, whether it's about life, and quite frankly, just spending time with them is just as important. A lot of times it doesn't have to be about, hey, like, we're going to try to get better at basketball, or hey, like, it doesn't have to be a goal where you're trying to create an art piece. Like just that time, regardless of I'm trying to impact your life or not, I think it does a fantastic job. A fantastic job doing. So do you remember any of the drills we would do in camp?

[29:57] OMAR CHAVEZ: Do remember a lot of the drills that we would do. And before I touch base on those, I did want to talk about another aspect that really brings, I guess, some joy is seeing a lot of these campers that we grew up with that eventually became junior instructors that then later became coaches, and now you're seeing them come back and they're bringing their own kids. So now it's like a whole generation of Kids that, you know, the parent was there, now the kids are there. And it's just, to me, it just feels like it's a domino effect, that it's leaving a positive impact going forward. I do feel like in the recent years, the whole camp as a whole has gotten closer together. Not only do we just, I guess, interact during those three days of camp, but now, you know, we're interacting outside of camp. We're gathering, you know, ideas, thoughts, how to improve the camp, how do we fundraise to provide more for the camp. And I think one of the greatest thing about the camp is that you mentioned it. Not everyone is from Hispanic origins, but it brought people together, and not just the campers, the participants, but the coaches. You saw a lot of the coaches. They would come from New York, from Chicago, from all over the U.S. i remember there was actually a coach from overseas. Right. She played, I think, professionally for Australia, if I'm not mistaken. And so that just goes to show the impact of the camp that you would get so many different people from different backgrounds, from different cultures with the same mentality of trying to help, trying to teach something to the kids, whether it was basketball, storytelling, art. Even though, you know, I miss that one a lot. I'm not very artistic. And, you know, you've seen a lot of my drawings. That wasn't a station I really, really paid a lot of attention in. I was more into, you know, everything else. But I think the camp does a great job at bringing people together. Regarding the basketball skills, the basketball drills, I do recall a lot of them, and I do recall the degree of difficulty. I recall jamming my fingers a lot. You know, there's, you know, a lot of broken fingers, hurt fingers. But eventually, you know, you would get that sense of accomplishment when you finally were able to, you know, bounce the ball between your legs and catch it behind your head or throw it up in the air and then catch it behind your neck and roll it over. There was a lot of moments when you're like, wow, I never thought I was going to be able to do this, but now that I can, I wonder how much more I could extend. I wonder what else I could do. And I think that right there, that type of mentality, that type of that would teach at least it taught me personally that with hard work, you could accomplish anything. And I kind of took that in. Not just basketball, not just the other sports I participated in, but I just kind of took that in life. And I think it was a really great foundation on, you know, on the Life, you know, that I've, you know, pat, so far, whether it was scholastically in sports or in my personal life. What about you? Did you find any of the dribbling skills a little bit challenging? Was there one that was your favorite?

[33:44] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, well, I mean, there's a few that I remember, so you mentioned one, and it's what it was called. It was called the impossible Catch.

[33:53] OMAR CHAVEZ: Impossible catch.

[33:54] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yes. So you'd have to. You'd stand, right. Or your feet are basically shoulder length apart. You're supposed to bounce the basketball between your legs as you're facing one way, and as you bounce it between your legs, you're supposed to catch it behind your head. Right. And you're not necessarily supposed to, like, move a lot. Like, you can do, like, a little hop, right. But you're just supposed to catch it really, really cleanly. And when I barely got into the camp, I was like, that's the move I have to do. I heard him, and I'm like, that's the one. That's the one I have to do. So when I was little, and obviously I didn't realize this, but it's kind of impossible. Like, they're not lying when you're that small, because one, the basketball is, like, bigger than me.

[34:46] OMAR CHAVEZ: And then you had T. Rex.

[34:47] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yes. And then. Yeah. And obviously I had a very stereotypical cartoonish figure where I had a big head and kind of, like a smaller body as a child. So it was really difficult to kind of get that going. And it was really, really funny because as I grew older and it didn't really take long to the point where I think I was one of the younger campers to have been able to do it, and it was, like a super, super good accomplishment for me. That was probably not my favorite. That's just one I remember a lot because I know I really was obsessed with doing it. Like, the spider dribbling drill was probably my favorite because, one, it looked cool. Two, it looked like at least something you could do in a game. Now, me as a coach now, I don't think I'd be really happy with a player doing that mid game. But as a young player, in the back of my mind, I'm like, never know. You never know when you can pull this out mid game and get the job done.

[35:52] OMAR CHAVEZ: Any of your girls pulling it?

[35:54] DAVID CHAVEZ: No.

[35:55] OMAR CHAVEZ: Down by three.

[35:56] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, no, I think we'll keep that for practice and skill development, maybe. But, yeah, no, don't do that. So I always like that one a lot. Right. But it's Funny. And I'm sure a lot of campers know this or can relate to this, but if you hear some of the drill names, they'll know what you're talking about. And I can assure you a lot of them can probably still do them. Obviously, maybe not. Well, right. Like, if you ask me to do the impossible catch right now, as we speak, I probably can't get it done.

[36:32] OMAR CHAVEZ: You might need a couple of times.

[36:34] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah, yeah. It's not going to be clean. Right. But you know it. So it's kind of ingrained in you a little bit, which is good. But again, it just goes back where it impacts your life in a lot of different ways. As a basketball player, obviously it had that impact. I still remember the practice, 20 minutes a day that they tell you, especially towards the end, where it's a closing ceremony and all of that. And it's like, hey, guys, 20 minutes a day. That's all you need. That's all you need. That's all you need. And obviously, as a kid, after the camp, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do it. Then a week later, you're like, I kind of want to watch tv. Luckily, we had parents that kind of weren't going to allow that to happen, but other kids were. I mean, it's tough, but I always remember that, like, the 20 minutes a day, and as a coach, it kind of goes back because that's really all you need. You just need that consistent effort throughout. And I mean, those are another example of, like, those skills that happen. But I did mention that closing ceremony, which was probably, like, the absolute highlight of the camp. And I was always super excited about it. I don't know if you remember.

[37:53] OMAR CHAVEZ: I do remember. And one of. One of the last things I want to say, one of the closing things I want to say is that I do remember the closing ceremonies. And the best recollection I have personally didn't even happen to me. It was actually you were involved in that. And at that time, you know, well, throughout all our life, you know, you were. You're always my little brother. I always had that sense of protection. I always wanted you to even do a lot better than what I did. And I remember that camp, that closing ceremony, you won as the most improved player. And they made you to go up there in front of everyone, you know, little kid, I think you were six maybe, and they made you get the award, made you raise your hands over your head and into the mic. They made you say, I'm somebody special. And I think that sums the whole camp up is that they made not only you but they made every single person feel special.

[38:53] DAVID CHAVEZ: Yeah. And obviously it's a camp, so there was a lot of awards. Right. You're trying to make, make all the campers feel special. All right. But yeah, I was lucky enough to win that most improved. I got a basketball and they'd give us basketballs. But this was like a really, really nice basketball and I still remember it and that it was really nice, like leather, like just like those basketballs that you see in like a legitimate high level basketball game. But that somebody special is something that's, that's always going to stay with me and it's a calling card and it's a perfect summation of the camp. Right. It made everyone feel special in the camp itself. Well, Omar, thank you for joining me today.

[39:42] OMAR CHAVEZ: Thank you, David. A pleasure.