Dawn Ennis and Liam Ennis

00:01 I'm Dawn. Ennis. I'm 57 years old. It is August, 12th. 2021. I live in West Hartford Connecticut, which is why I'm talking to you from. This is my son. Liam, Liam Kenneth and us, he is one of my three children. Say hi, Liam. Hi, as you know, my name is Liam. I am 14. What's your last name? Liam Liam Ennis. I am 14 years old and this is my dad. You have to do this thing. Today's date in here. So today is August 12th. 2021. And where are you? We are in West Hartford Connecticut in the United States. And and who is the partner of yours?

01:01 I am talking to my dad Dawn, Ennis. I call her my dad because she is trans, but technically she does the job of mom.

01:13 That's very true. So, I am one of those people who use a name that doesn't match my pronouns very often. When we go out. I say shopping or. Yeah, about people will just immediately assume I'm your mom or refer to me as your mom. And when it first started happening, I used to always say, well, no, actually I'm his dad. I'm transgender. So as to not take away. Yeah, you know, from Mom's roll, mom's place. And then after she died five and a half years ago. I used to also add in the fact that, you know, his mom passed away and what we always get home. I'm so sorry. If we're not going to be this person. Again, if I had a nickel for every time they apologized.

02:13 Let it go. It's a little weird just going like, yep. That's sure. Is my mother but she's full. When I first came out. We had a conversation in this room. You and your brother and sister you were sick.

02:26 Your brother was 14 was your age now and your sister was 10 and I told you that sometimes people come up with a name called Maddie. Would you like Mom and Dad some people have their kids call them by their first names? And I wasn't sure if it was you or Sophie. Somebody asked why can't we just call you dad? I think it might have been so. Yeah, I think so. And I just said, I'd love that. I'm cool with that. The only problem is going to be like in a bathing suit in a pool or yeah, you know, wearing a low-cut top. People may wonder why we're talking to because you're calling this woman dad. And the only place with the only place I will let Sophie call me dad.

03:10 In the house and they know that the bathroom the lady's bath or in a changing room in a department store, if she called me Dad. And one of those places that could get you in trouble. So that's where she's allowed to call me by my first name, which I don't generally. Like, I'm not a fan of people calling adults by their first names. Call you Dude, or bro. If we live in l.a., That would be perfect. When I first moved to LA, after me to leave the house. I was in LA and a guy argue with me over parking space.

03:45 Is it dude? I'm a I'm not a dude. He's like, you know, it's just I said, yeah, I said everybody to do everybody. Everybody everybody. That was a fun story, some stuff. What do you remember of does crazy old days when I transitioned, you remember, even me being someone other than the person, I mean there are pictures of the houses what I look like before. But you really remember that at all very little. I do remember one time on the car ride home from my elementary school. I don't know what brought it up or where I like to learn the word butt out of nowhere. We were like, a couple blocks in the house. I went, Dad. I think you might be transgender and the car started. Hit the brakes. I was like, where did you hear that? And you said, I don't know. I literally don't know. 5, you are not even 6 yet.

04:45 From being very affirming to seeing me for the very first time in July, of 13/8 years ago. Last month. It was the first time you ever saw me with the hair. I wear an earring clothes, that belong to me, you know, where the old clothes. Yeah. I mean I was like, your spice is 6X. You're sick. You're sick, but we all went out for a ride. Remember the three of us? The review and me, mom, stay home, and we went for a ride over to the park. We and it was fun. And we took a picture. I still have that picture. I love that picture is everyone's smiling. Everyone's happy.

05:31 What do you remember of the your own coming out? Because that was a big deal. You came out to me, you said, well, first of all, they meant when Sophie came when your sister came out. Yeah. Your first reaction was, I want to be gay, I said, you're 9 years old. Give it time. You will surprise. You will have, you'll have time to figure it out. And then last year, I got my wish last year. You said to me? I'm not straight. Yeah. I remember that. I believe I was yeah. I was still dating my ex at the time, a year of telling me you're gay.

06:21 It was actually a long time ago when I was eleven at summer camp. I kissed a boy there the first week it was named, would you believe? I remember the kid? Who is Superman? That's the kid. He was kicked out of the camp. Yeah, he was. So he was a closeted gay. Yep. I think that's why he was so mean to me, internalized, homophobia. Just learned the prize. The first girl I ever kissed was in 4th grade on a ferris wheel, fourth grade and we're still friends to this day. But she wrote a story. I kissed a girl on it was weird cuz I wasn't a girl at the time. I was a girl but I wasn't sure how I was pretending to be a boy and

07:19 What did you think of your first kiss? Was it a memorable, kiss? I know it was terrible. We were both like 11:00. So we had no idea what was happening. So, what about now? Right now? I'm not seeing anyone.

07:35 Now, accept virtual, I have like a whole interconnected web of friends online. Not one of the clothes. I have one straight friend. The closest I have is straight. Yeah, but he's also a little kid, and like you said, give it time. And the one friend I have is not part of the alphabet are me as we call. It is straight, but he's also arrow is, he is aromantic and asexual a plus because I saw one that said L is Wesleyan University lgbtqia+.......

08:35 Queer eye used to say when I first came out my boss at work, said to me. Well, are you lesbian? And I'm like, well, I'm married to a woman, so I guess so. And then I started thinking about it and I said, looking at movies and start looking at actors and they're looking at pictures, and I started thinking my pictures I sent answer is, you know, on the internet, not like horn, but that out of your mind right now. I will confess when I was your age. I did look at Grandpa Downs. Born. This is what my body supposed to look like and where you going to get pictures of naked women, right? Except pornography and grab it. Had a lot of it. It's not for me.

09:35 Are realizing that I really attracted to men but I've only dated women all my life except since I came out. I did a couple of guys but I want one guy said to me and I said, okay, this is going to be. How do you explain that? I said this is going to be too, complicated. Forget it. We're not going to go out again. One day and done. I haven't found the right guy or thought about getting a woman. My lesbian friends, help me. I'm very straight. I don't know. I think we're is the best definition for who I am. What do you think of that definition of queer word that you do people use your young people you whippersnappers. Yeah, we do squared on this often as you old farts, but we do use it. Every now and then it was a word that people use to herd us, especially when I called the f word.

10:29 Yeah, that's a weird. I don't like saying and I have like writing it either. I write the f word when it read a story about it, but I will tell you that lot of people like using that word because they want to reclaim it. Yeah, I can see where they're coming from but like meme as myself. I don't feel comfortable using it even though, like I can use it. I don't like using it because I believe someone once said to me one time this was a straight person that I forgot where, but I mean, it's just like your version of the N word. Why can't? You just like saying nothing like the first of all, a horrible oppression of, you know, an entire race for hundreds of years to the terrible things that happen to our people are key and it's awful, but, you know, that I have people.

11:29 Does country. Actually people around the world who came out as transgender because of my story. Did, you know that some of them? Because they told me? So some people, I don't know, just because unfortunately, when I came out it made the newspapers and became famous, you're so, famous, famous. I'm more Infamous than anything else. You remember the time when?

11:58 Real reporters hiding in bushes and we had people knocking on doors and going the grandma's house and, and Laura's house and, and all over the place trying to get interviews with us and pictures of us. They had a photographer staking out the house. At one point. I heard countless stories. Don't remember that. Although, you know, your older brother found out that I was before you and your sister did before I started that out in the car after that. After I came out it made the newspapers. So Mom. And I decided we had to tell Sean because we are afraid as a freshman in high school. Somebody might oh God. In the day for somebody might see it. And then say something to Sean, you might get bullied as it was being bullied because my body was changing. And I didn't always cover up, you know, I

12:50 And it was a secret that he knew that I was transgender cuz I was going to tell you and all sounds. Like I like build up to like a really weird spinal. Well, mom didn't want to ruin. Your guys know, you were still in school. It was May of 2013, you were in elementary school. So he was in Middle School and she was afraid that it would hurt your grace. So we waited and we waited we waited till after. So he went to camp and we waited until after Grandma's wedding and remember Grandma's wedding. I remember, I was, I had to

13:39 Transition for that. I was invited to go unless I went at my old self. This is grandma. Didn't want me there. Unless I was, you know, going as my old self. I'm supposed to walk her down the aisle. And instead we had Sean. Well, it wasn't the first time. I mean, mommy asked me to do the same thing for selfies, but that's for to ya. Both Mommy and Grandma were wrong to ask me to do that. But I put their happiness ahead of my own. I mean, you shouldn't do that because you're the best, but they did. And I decided that their happiness was more important than mine. I will admit for selfies, but it was a real struggle. I called the rabbi and I was crying. I didn't think anything was right. I didn't think that I should have had to do that, and I promised Mommy that I would do it. So, I did it. And the rabbi said, to me.

14:30 What's more important to you to stand up for your principles or to honor the dying wish of the woman you love? And, of course, you know, the answer lies with the rabbi said, when I came out to him. Thanks for telling me. You're welcome. But I wanted the rabbi to know that when we did Sean's Bar Mitzvah that I was keeping a secret from everyone and I couldn't keep it from him. So he said to me, well, I want you to know two things.

15:07 God Made You in their image, whether your male or female God Made You in their image as it was. The second thing. He says, you're not the first one, don't get a big heads or are you even like I became a Jew? Yeah, that was some years ago this summer, I converted which, you know, I took my time transitioning. I took my time converting. I wanted to do it right. I wanted to do it at my own pace. I wasn't rushing re-baptized. I will. I will admit Liam. I wish I could come out as a woman long before I did. I wish I could come out and converted to Judaism long before I did. But you can't go back and go to cut a shot of Youth. Life is what it is. Yeah. I want to ask you a conversation question. I asked Sean ones. When I first came out,

16:00 Channel is the only one besides mommy, who knew in the family is at Grandma. And of course all the relatives.

16:09 And why you doing this to our family? Why are you ruining our family? Why are you having to, you know, you're making it so that Mommy makes you leave and you can't live with us anymore. It's all because you can, you know, why can't you just go on, being closeted being a man? I mean, you can't file from John's and understand. We did not grab the same way. I know, because you shouldn't spend your entire life hiding from who you are. You've already spent like a good 40 years. I was going to say I was going to say 39, give you like the night at 4:49 when I came out. So 40 plus years. I knew when I was 4 years old and grandma wouldn't listen to me. Grandma said Oh, no, you're not a girl. You're just

17:09 Special special special didn't have a word for transgender back. Then you what I told Sean, I said Sean, how can I encourage you to be whatever you want to be if I'm not doing that myself. How would you feel if you became a man? And I finally came out as a woman. I am and I told you I had waited all that time.

17:34 And I did it for you. How would you feel about that either? I feel terrible. I feel guilty. I feel like I deprived you of your truth. I said, I don't want you to have that burden. This is why we have to deal with it now. And it was hard. It was really hard. I did not want to leave mommy, and I actually decided we were going to live in the same house together, but when Mommy saw me, she decided she couldn't handle it. So are you go after my wife, passed away?

18:03 I know that she's looking over all of us and she loves you being gay, my mom and she loves. So if you didn't know who she is and shopping with that, he has all of you being authentic. She would have accepted it. She would have. I know you don't think so, but despite how she treated me, and how she thought about gay people. I think she would accept it from her own children. Give her enough time of mom thought that a real man loves a woman. And a real woman loves a man and she told me so and I was really surprised. I had no idea, she felt that way, and it made me very sad, but she also didn't see me as the same person. She thought that I was someone different.

18:46 I told her for years, You probably know this guy. I started thinking about transitioning, after Grandpa. Don. You were a baby. That's 2006.

18:58 And I worked on it for like 6 years and 2012. Is that year? I finally started coming to terms with it.

19:06 6 years, I struggled with it and I set your mommy many times. I said, no, I'm still your husband and mommy was the one who helped me. See that I wasn't the man. I was pretending to be a man. This is something very funny that it sort of hurtful, but it's creative. His mom was a great writer. You know what she said to me.

19:28 Did she say it? Like did you say enough money? Where she say, said it? Cuz Mommy was really very hurt. She was crushed. We were College sweethearts. I loved her.

19:50 She thought that I had betrayed her and I had lied to her. I did lie to her at first because I was afraid of losing her but it is a lie to her. Ultimately. I told her the truth. I just wasn't ready to admit the truth to myself. So I feel bad about that. But at the same time you have to understand them growing up. Transgender people dressed up as the other sex drag Dragon, but I didn't want to be a drag queen. I didn't want to be someone who dressed up as a woman. I was a girl and I was a woman. I felt this was supposed to be but I wasn't so.

20:26 Suck it up by the script. Exactly. I need a girl get married. Have kids get a job. That's that was a script until.

20:39 After Grandpa, Don. I realized life is so short. I'm sure you must realize the same thing with Mommy dying at the age of 9 Samsung. People say to me all the time. Then it must be so hard on your kids, having a transgender father. And I always say no watching their mother get cancer and die before their eyes, that's hard. It's fucking awesome to have a transgender father because like you can grow up an understanding household without like because even though like when I first came out, for example, I had known for like a year or two because I wanted to come out and like you like a half hour on the line, and I literally knew like, I probably grew up in one of the most accepting households ever. All of us are part of the alphabet Army. I still

21:39 It's like scared to because I don't really know and my ex at the time ask me the same thing. Why are you so afraid to do it? If you know that nothing will wait a minute. You can come out to his parents. Yeah, but I will say that everyone that many people while in the closet have fear and worry, what will happen is why many athletes don't come out. And I know I work in sports journalism as well as other journalism, but a lot of the Charles, my dad was involved in sports and a lot of athletes won't come out because they're so afraid of what will happen. And it turns out ever interested in the story about,

22:31 I fear some Pandit people are embracing and loving and also it's a different time. What happened me in 2013. I don't think what happened today. At least I probably I hope not. What's your effing language you cuss before we have expression our house, right?

22:51 I know that you should be cursing on radio or interviews or whatever. Sorry. I'm just to hip and cool and all, but I do think a lot of I allow you a lots of room to express yourself. I just want you to be respectful of other people. Not everybody likes the language, you know, I got in trouble when I was working in Florida before you were born. Mom. Dad, and Sophie. And Sean. We all lived in Florida. Very conservative party, Florida, and I said to one of the reporters I said, I can't believe you effing, you know, messed up, or you made a mistake, whatever it was. She did, and she went to buy the boss, the boss put me in the office and said, you know, you really can't talk to you in that way. And I said, well, I'm from New York is how we talk to it. It's not appropriate here. You have to apologize.

23:39 So what happened to the reporter from Texas, Christian, nice, young lady. And I said, look, I'm really sorry about how I spoke to you before and I apologize if I offended you because obviously I must have what's the bus. And it was wrong of me to use that language in front of you. Never fucking work in New York.

24:02 Okay. I hadn't missed working in TV Land. I really do. I really do a lot of fun, but being a stay-at-home mom and working at home and being a journalist Works online had allowed me since mommy died to be in your lives. The way I never was for God, how many years was it, 2 years 3 years or 13 to 2016? For three years. I was visiting dad, this dad who just sort of came in. And there were times when I was being the old me, you remember that time. Do you have any memories of those times? When I would be absent and thinking that I'm some stranger, you've just recently told me how angry you were at me for being absent. Yeah, that's a lot of things that we, as kids in this house. Michon's, do we have in common? I don't remember the Gap like at all. So,

25:02 But I think Sean and Sophie do about their older 39. Again. There's no denying it, but I'm going to be 15.

25:28 You got the confirmations because I have to do stuff for it and I drive but you can't escape by. You have to work for stuff. Why is that? Such a pair of Burden for you? Why are you the coaster? Well, I mean am I going to get paid for having you'll get cash rewards has that young people give you check some things present. So I'm going to get another like for United me to get close to that. You're going to get, maybe $100 or a but it's not with the money. It's about confirming your face and when you and your brother and sister join me at Temple for fried Shabbat.

26:19 And you stood up in front of everybody to get the blessing. I was so moved. I was almost crying and you like right? That opening to get a bag, but it was so lovely to know that my children were standing with me as we receive the blessing for being LGBT and Jewish. I, I just, I can't describe to you how important it was to me was very long that the service. Glad I was like, the thing long, I wanted it to be long. I'm going to last forever. You know, I'm really in touch with the Jewish faith, like especially during the summer time because you are just exploring Science Academy. You said you really felt the connection this summer because well, I had a two-year Gap and if you've noticed a lot of it the last two years, I really did not care at all about like you did something about you matter fact, if you remember you told me you were angry with God.

27:19 Had the rabbi talk to you about it. Because it's understandable was cool, bro. We're good, but like the lake.

27:39 I mean. Has their ways when God works in mysterious ways. For my godmother. My aunt has been angry at God for 50 years because her first baby was died. After childbirth, her son died of muscle dystrophy, who you carry his name as your middle name and ask her. First husband was closeted, gay and had AIDS, and died. Her second husband died. She has a lot of reasons to be angry at God, of course, because online, with a lot of family members, who aren't really happy with me being trans outside of our like, inside ring of view means we have your sister, your brother, you and me, Dahlia and face and the grandma grandma. When she doesn't call me hear him. She didn't this morning.

28:39 I told her I was going to make her put $10 in a jar every time she uses the wrong ProMaster me millionaire in 8 years for me, but I think she also wanted to support. Mommy was not happy with me. But the funny thing is complicated. Mommy wanted me to transition to be real, but she also didn't want me to be in her life. She want to have her own life and I feel bad that I didn't give her the time earlier longer to maybe find a new husband. I mean, she didn't have much time, anyway, and I didn't, I guess I would have been your new Tad. I would have been weird.

29:39 I didn't California seeing on FaceTime and visiting once in a while and I'm just not sound fun. And I don't know if any of you would have come out as quickly as you did, probably not. So soon.

29:55 Im a selfie came out on coming out that day after coming out there and it was the weekend of the unveiling for mommies Tombstone, and Grandma was coming. And she had all these signs about being taken down by sexual all around the house and I'm like, oh my God, I said to, Sean, I said, that's when you said I want to be gay.

30:21 That's okay. They came out on the same day. I did work out. I don't think he liked being seen as gay that people assume. She was married to a woman who has same-sex marriage for a couple years there. And that'd make her happy people have to Define themselves, you know.

30:44 Siri questions for me, in this time. We have everything I've ever wanted. Ever. Wanted to ask me if you never get a chance to you have to, I have to answer now because I'm on the recording.

30:55 What's 27 + 330? Thank you. I'm going to

31:03 Like, the funny thing is, you have the same joke. I have a different version of it. You whenever someone says, you any questions. I usually say, do you know the capital of Montana Helena? Helena already gotten, I love you. That's nice.

31:31 Anna stealing Han Solo's line. That's really good. By the way. Last has it in Return of the Jedi.

31:41 Love you, too. I'm including them both from the stars in the movie, 23. Yes. It is. Yes. I'm glad that you like some Star Wars Star Trek expected. You all the Rainbow flu. I give you all the Rainbow flu. I made you all gay and bi and queer things. How dare you? I'll never be able to live on my street fantasies people who are said about either same-sex marriage or transgender. I sign. If you don't

32:38 Support same-sex marriage, that don't get that. Don't get if you don't support transitions. Why are you so obsessed with controlling up? The people's life is straight people. Would you stop having gay babies? It would fix the problem right away.

33:00 Mommy, Daddy went to a gay wedding, went to a wedding with two Brides. We had a great time, but that's for them. Not for me.

33:21 And dumb.

33:24 And because of me being me, I have a lot of friends or married or gay or lesbian or queer non-binary and

33:36 I think that you probably do more people like that because you're younger. It's easier for people like yourself or younger. I am in a Discord server. Is basically like a second family for us. That's where I'm actually going on a chance to hang out with them. And there's like 20 people in there and not a single, one of them is straight. Are you familiar with all those people? Do? I have to worry about someone being a pedophile or some strange items pajamas, his grandma. I know all of them have either been to school with them. Cinnamon Facebook, Smart, Facebook, FaceTime, more time than I can count, just like, I've seen them everywhere. Hurts them everywhere. The boys thought I would be very impressed. But now that it's they are real people.

34:29 Good. I just worry about that. Why I didn't let you play with online video games for years cuz I was years and years. I was so afraid because they pretend to be cute.

34:42 And they get inside your game and they know sometimes kids are double and they agree to meet somebody somewhere and you think. I know you're not but imagine one of your online friends. Hey, listen to the park at turns out, it's some crazy old guy, in a green van, and to try to kidnap you. I don't know. I'm just saying an error in which kids pictures, started p.m. On milk cartons, because kids are being kidnapped, and people are afraid and, you know, it's different era is a lot more dangerous, but also a lot more. Well, my life, when I was fourteen is so different from your life. My parents would not know where I was at all. I would get up in the morning. I get showered and dressed, I'd have myself some breakfast, and I would run up on my bicycle to my friends, will be gone all day and, but I wish you were at night. I wish you would, let me do that.

35:42 This is 2020s Define. I do with people who are trustworthy and say I believe that but I'm telling you that it is, it is important for you to know is important for you to know that.

36:01 If anything ever happened to you, I'd never forget myself and likewise, when Mommy passed away. I resolved to be the healthiest person. I could be. So I could be around for as long as I could. Do. You always wear this pair, but go from telling me. Oh, you're the most wanted child. You're the third. We already had already had a girl. What we really wanted to eat, is you and then you do. Yeah, you're kidding. You. I am just making you squirm.

36:44 We had a boy. We had a girl. We wanted the third. My mother was one of three. My father was one of three. We wanted a third, mommy's aunt.

36:57 I have three children. All right, so trees are in our family.

37:01 We lost that baby. We lost it at Bowling Alley. We're out celebrating one of Sean's friends, birthdays. Horrible, horrible day. I turn down a job to move, back to Florida. We're going to leave Connecticut and move to Orlando. And because Mommy lost the baby, we decided now, we're not going to move back to Florida. I really wish that I turned down a job, but I'm glad you did. It was important for Mommy, that we stay at home and grab it on to something really awful. He said, well. I think it's the message. That's just God saying this baby would have had a hard life. Or maybe there's something that would have made that life harder for you or something. And I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen and God took that baby away. That is not what you say to somebody about my message. So Mom and Dad decided we were going to keep on trying and that's why I say to you that you were the most wanted child because I don't really want to have her first child.

38:01 We were so happy about as much as we wanted to have a second child with Sophie, which we're so happy about. We wanted to send a message to everyone that we wanted a third and you would be in bad taste. But I'm really glad that that baby didn't want to tell name Tamara that match in Jewish tradition. You name, someone after a dead person in your family and it was Linda, mommy's cousin, who died. And I had my cousin cats who died. So we wanted to name L and K. And I said Leo, and she said, Liam by one of the Jewish name. She wanted the Irish name. Go figure ironic, but, like something else. I always wanted a girl named Caitlin Rose. Never got her. I literally know so many Kaitlyn.

39:01 Shawn Michaels, Shawn Michaels, a dad who's also a mom, because I got the best Best of Both Worlds. I didn't have to go through childbirth or pregnancy, but I now have the best job in the whole world is praising. You guys as a hard job. I tell you. It also sucks. It is a hardest. Worst best job I've ever had. I love it, and I'm good at it.

39:36 Yeah, answer honestly. Am I a good mom? Thank you again. I'm a dad with Mom. I'm not your mom. I just do the job of mom. You are. I would have loved to have been at mom. I think I would have been okay at it. But your mom is the best mom. I miss her. I miss her. I miss our family together as a family of five, but I'm happier now than I've ever been in my entire life. Can you say the same thing? Like red, dog. Food commercials. I'm happy now but like 4, I guess different. I still have a lot of things that give me the spare and sad. What do you do when you're feeling despair?

40:32 What I used to do when I was like, a couple months ago. I would go to the shower, sit down, turn it on and cry, which is not very healthy. Cuz that led to a lot of internal I tape, but I'm over that now hitting on yourself verbally out loud in. The shower is not as your therapist help you with that. I know, I can always come to me talk to, but I know that's not your first go to as a fourteen-year-old boy. Nobody goes. I know, I know but I want you to know.

41:17 Plus dark. I love you.

41:20 Love you, too.

41:23 And Jerry.