Cathi Gatewood-Keim and Judy Gatewood-Keim

00:02 Hello. My name is Judy gatewood-keim 4 years old. Today's date is May 24th, 2019. I am in Nashville, Tennessee and my relationship to my interview partner is Kathy is my spouse.

00:21 And I am Cathy gatewood-keim and I am 58 for at least a couple more weeks. And today's date is May 24th, 2019 also here in Nashville, Tennessee and Judy is my spouse and I will be interviewing her so Judy. My first question to you is about your enlistment. When did you enlist? And how did your family react when you did I Enlisted the week after my 18th birthday because I knew my father wouldn't sign the enlistment papers. I tried bringing them home and spring of my senior year of high school in my father said I'm not going to sign us. When do you turn eighteen and I can't stop you and that is exactly what happened. They knew this day was coming. I've been picking up recruiting brochures and talk about joining the military for Pie about the last three years. They actually only with some papers. I remember my father cried you he was a pastor and he was so convinced of the military is going to corrupt me, but itsfunneh a few years later. He totally forgot the sentiment.

01:21 I tried to get my mother to verify the fact that he didn't like the idea of my join the military or so. Why did you decide to enlist for me? Mainly wanted to challenge that I didn't think I would get by going to college or just getting a job. I was a thrill seeker. I want to do dangerous things that I knew I'd never get a chance to do as a civilian. I still want a chance to move around see the world, but I wasn't about to join the Navy. Remember. This is just about ten years after the drafted ending in opportunities for women in the Navy. I didn't think we're going to be as good as they were another branch of the service center. And then I also wanted to be able to take college courses cheaper and get money for college just in case I didn't like the military.

02:06 Did your perceptions change after you joined or were they different from the reality of the few?

02:15 Glimpses, I have military life cuz we were not a military family at all those things like Gomer Pyle USMC. And so I thought it was going to be a lot like that and I found out that actually had more freedom in free time. Then I thought I would so it would turn out better than I thought it would what sticks out to you about adapting to military life. I like the structure so that it didn't hurt it really struggle with that. Certainly not doing physical training. I had been getting up in the morning early before the sun rose. Where am I gray sweatpants like Rocky in Rocky 1 and go and running and lifting weights in the basement. So since most of my military career my own physical training was actually harder than a lot of the military physical training having to wear a hat all the time. I got told a lot when I was a young Trooper to put my hat on.

03:13 Register I couldn't see the point for winning it on for 5 feet just take back off and the other thing was a thought processes that I asked you to think about. How is going to be better than those around me primarily to gain and keep respect and then then when I thought I might be might be gay and then actually got in a relationship how to sort of set that aside because I was still in the military during the time of the either right? You couldn't be gay at all and then the don't ask don't tell are

03:46 Can you share something about what military occupations you held it had quite a few in the reason for that will come up later and the interview but I was a military police. I did that because I thought if I didn't like it I would have police experience. I would have some of those college courses in biology already done and I become a Pennsylvania Game Warden.

04:08 Then I said hey, I like it. I want to stay so I went to flight school became of Red Wing pilot. I got medically grounded and running for my medical history. I transitioned into the air guard became Medicare.

04:22 Again transferred into the Army guard stayed with the medic thing that I actually got a short sentence for a civil engineer in the air guard and then I finished up my career as a Army Reserve medic instructor just because I found out that I really enjoy teaching helping others learn.

04:39 So when and why did you decide to go to Warrant Officer candidate school and Flight School?

04:47 I had actually flown fixed-wing airplane when I was in high school. We Grill close to where Piper airplane was supper clubs as you might know a little bit about Piper Cubs. They were actually the military aircraft for a while. And so I had a full and I thought how cool would it be to have the army pay me to become a pilot and no I didn't think much about it. I guess maybe I was a little naive to the World Around Me haven't thrown up in a small town, but I can look back now and say based on the logic of statistics and I've never actually verified this but based on the logic of statistics of when women were first allowed to fly rotary Wing aircraft for the military the number of classes that the Army would have for a year and then the number of women in those classes and I never saw more than one woman for class that I was probably one of the first though I'd say about 125 female rotary wing.

05:47 Pilot officer is to what flight what was flight school like when you got there, but I was wrong. I know it's going to be long when I went into it. And so we didn't have a lot of freedoms through the first year until we got to the last phase where we were little black tabs underneath our a velcro name badges. And then then we had a little they were starting to help with transition into being an officer rather than a candidate. So that was one thing it was long thing that I found out is I would rather leave them be led by a person his heart wasn't in it. So it threw out most of that year. I was in leadership roles are as a class leader cool thing was people respected me for that. I think sometimes maybe they were thankful because one they didn't have to do it.

06:37 And at 2 because they realize that I was trying enough to be professional be confident that I genuinely cared about them and their well-being and I did a lot of dead bugs and push-ups, you know, what sort of Defending my actions to make life a little better for for my fellow candidates that were in my flight so that that was where

07:03 Probably there the first thing I was really proud of him and Military cream and by now I actually won awards like being you know are in the quarter SPC military police in the other Wing that sort of stuff but this is why the first thing I was really proud of is after that your long slog my peers selected me for the leadership award and that was really glad that I got to admit. I felt pretty good about beating the smug guy for the physical fitness award at the time that are the physical fitness test was on a sliding scale based on gender and age. So yes, he only ran 2 miles faster than me and he's been more push-ups or sit-ups them, but I got a higher overall score. So I got the award. I wouldn't happen in today's Army now that you're transitioning to the the Army Combat fitness test which has one standard and I'm kind of thankful that the military is going to the one standard PT test in them.

08:03 Here's the other thing just thinking about Playskool to that. I can look back on now and realize it was it was an interesting fact that phase where we're supposed to be treated as another Canaanites were supposed to salute us and give us the greeting of the day that even though they knew the rules that they could still strugglin always greet the men that I was with and not me like like a woman can't be the leader even their training couldn't overcome that sort of social concept. So I always something with back now runs and intriguing

08:43 What places did you deploy and did you participate in combat operations when a couple different appointments but the two that I actually saw combat operations and receive with the military combat or hazardous duty pay was a Desert Storm Desert Shield and Iraq. And then operation restore. Hope in Somalia Africa think think Black Hawk Down the movie Black Hawk Down for this you familiar with it. That's a little slice review of my life. Were you there with a Black Hawk Down? I actually left about 5 weeks prior to happen. I tell people that the difference between those at the mission on that day was we got shot at they got shot down.

09:27 How did you stay in touch with your family while you were deployed? I know this might sound so like I'm so old satellite phone calls, but all the connections they would almost always get dropped. It was it just wasn't worth the effort. So written especially, you know, the first start calling out your name, you're helping your name gets called. I actually still have some letters that my family wrote me an old Footlocker. It's interesting to re-read them because I thought I was going to die eisele went to tell me what a great person I wasn't these letters. So it makes for a pretty interesting reads look back and

10:11 And I wanted to do a little a shout out here to the to the general citizenry was always really quite touched when I got let her smoke school kids or people subscribe to magazines for us or has books or any other things. I thought would be useful. So yeah. So this is the general public out there that supported us and I actually got selected to receive a service dog. And for all the people kind of hand and making that happen. Thank you very much, We found all those letters from your family when you were deployed recently. What do you remember the most though about those deployments extreme weather? So whether that be cold heat orange out the store on the definitely remember that?

11:07 Crunchy clothing crunchy because it wasn't clean and washed especially Sox. I mean to this day. I probably don't spend less than $8 on stocks. I buy good suck. Yes you do and I think that's just a reaction.

11:27 Another thing I remember most was how this this Army Juggernaut can make these massive missions happen. The Convoy lines. I saw the huge fuel Farms that have been set up beforehand to make things happen. It just amazes the Army Juggernaut could make these massive emissions happen really still sticks out. My mind is bad water or no water. I will still often stand in the shower and Marvel at the fact or that I can turn on turn the handle and I have water that I can control the temperature of or I can stand at the sink and I can drink that water.

12:09 It's just at the turn of a hand. Yeah, you know for all the things that happened to me and deployments and angry and I wasn't in a lot of series combat, but the closest I ever came to realizing the fine line with the candy between sanity and Insanity was over water with been drinking this really nasty bottled water St. Amant. Yeah, and you looked at the bottle and it was like opaque it was horrible and it took a couple of those packages beverage base powders for me. I'm already used to make it even close to being so after drinking attempting to drink what we call water for a couple weeks. I remember I was hanging out in the general company are a call went out. We need help unloading truck. So I came out and they threw back the flats of those 5 ton trucks and I saw it was loaded up with saint amon's water that we be drinking for another 2-3 weeks and 4.

13:09 2 seconds. I thought I was going to snap and then the mission at hand to unload the water to Priority. But yeah this really yeah and it has a lasting to my training that they gave me really did prepare me. Well oddly enough. I never really felt any kind of feel like the first time I got engaged you just did what you needed to do what you're trying to do. Then I didn't find myself like questioning or what do I do next? I just knew that I would be able to react to What it happened and every time I reacted and stay safe and it worked.

13:54 My confidence describe what you did go a different deployments. How did they differ Wild Desert Storm Desert Shield was obviously a larger operation being well in the western edge. We just really didn't see that much actually just saw the aftermath of other people's actions. So I Got You Under Amour fire in Africa, but the the Comforts were better in Somalia. We actually had a consistent mess hall. We actually had a tent that they put up plywood in and they are conditioned it. So it was dark place to sleep for those are doing night missions where it was dark and cool. We had showers more consistently. So I had to do your own laundry by slashing is around in a bag or hanging out in the sun to dry, but

14:42 Really good more consistent showers and everything. I experienced the second deployment. I've been able to prove myself to those in my unit still in the hundred first for both of these deployments. I was in the hundred first and so technically Somali our sister company was the one that was tapped to go over and so but they needed Palace to backfill and

15:09 That's why I volunteered because that's what soldiers daily job. And so he was kind of the second proud moment. I had that made this different was there was there was a fellow warrant officer pilot in my unit. When heated arrive there actually surprising of had to I don't know I didn't think women should be should be piloting in the military and when my when Charlie Company said we don't want her because she's a woman is Fela War Nassar actually went down there to the command and said, hey she is a good soldier. She is a good pilot and you need to adjust pound sand and you need to take her. So that was a that was one thing that was the was different too. And so I'm always kind of proud moments like that that change people's minds, you know the way through

16:09 Other women to have any occupational skill or additional skill identifiers in the military. So after those deployments and you came home, how did it feel coming home? Well, I can tell you I'm being able to take long showers and I still sometimes feel guilty for how long shower then you can take a long ride my motorcycle on my bicycle greatly appreciated. I have never been a foodie so but I got to admit I enjoyed great food. I'm so it wasn't so much I can eat whatever I want but

16:50 But the only thing that was about looking back and I didn't deliberately practice mindfulness then and I do now and mindfulness is it is a very useful practice for me, but I didn't practice it then and I remember distinctly sitting on the steps outside my apartment taking myself. It's only been like two weeks since we've been back and feels like it was a long time ago. I was all I was given this little gift of life. I'm in the present time in the here-and-now what's ahead of me? What's right in front of me and to do with those sort of things and so it was just like I did it.

17:35 What was his life and you still did that? How did you change because of the military? I remember my very first assignment my supervisor Master Sergeant Hayward told me boy time. You really want confident cocky sob and I was like

17:57 Bleeding myself and the system wasn't going to you know, what's going to harm me in any way so I was confident myself, but those deployments made me realize or at least maybe think that I could handle I could enjoy maybe even almost dry. That's why I volunteered to backfill my sister company for operation restore. Hope in difficult situations and that really kind of thing life cost at me.

18:28 You know, I was going to ask her to be able to deal with it wasn't was going to crush me in anyway, so it turns out this this is now call with him, you know a lot about post-traumatic stress, but there is a field of lost me not talk about post-traumatic growth and so for meeting my deployment, I think gave me post-traumatic growth and this was going to prove useful to me later on when I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis that was service connected to my time in Desert Storm Desert Shield, so

19:03 Can you describe post-traumatic growth?

19:07 Growth is the idea that yes stressful situations. Now enable you to be able to say I saw that I face that I had the resiliency, which is the ability to adapt to stressful situations and actually come out a better sort of a better person a stronger person on the end. So when you see another stressful difficult challenging, I know a situation then you draw on your past experiences and rather than sort of retreating in uncertainty or fear. Let it paralyze you you have this ability to resist every time I don't like working out you lift heavier weights.

19:48 So you can just tell her to wait so you can let us have a weight so you can time be able to to function it, but it's for the wind is there for the body?

19:57 Seen it in her very much.

20:00 So you had a mess and were diagnosed. So you were medically grounded. So how did you manage to continue to serve for a full twenty eight and a half years when you were diagnosed at it like you're twelve and your point of your career is probably that resiliency adaptability flexibility coming in. I love the military wanted to stay and so what I did is I call running and hiding if ya the military basic philosophy in combat a shoot move communicate, so I became one of my big strategies. I was a warrant officer and I actually filled enough for the service time from flight school. So I was on what they called voluntary indefinite status.

20:45 What I would do to Zion with your my volunteering definite status as a warrant officer and got released from active duty. I had no college degree at the time cuz Warren officers didn't need them when I became a warrant officer. So I went back into the newest inside the service. I went into the air force guard to hide out. And so while I was in the Air Force guard, I decided to move back to Pennsylvania to go to college full time you use that the music College money and so when I said that I retrain this medic for the, Pennsylvania

21:23 So now I've moved moved wants move twice. Actually. I'm going to Pennsylvania guard one day. My commander calls me every time and he goes I pay for my desk that says your multiple sclerosis. Is that true and I was like, I don't know how they figured that out. But yes, sir. You're a good soldier. I'll just ignore it and you didn't pursue any kind of like whatever was would have been their responsibility to pursue its or unit actually got activated to go to Iraq. So I make it through the initial medical review board process head down to Mississippi far train up to deploy and I guess the good Lord didn't want me to play. I'm going through another medical review board Sergeant flipping through my records and he's flipping so fast and also he stops and looks up at me and says come with me.

22:19 And it takes me in just a couple officers and it says this Soldier has multiple sclerosis and they look at me like I was at 2 and I said, yes it is but

22:28 I can probably out hustle 80% of the people out here physically and they're like we don't care and that was in the morning and by that evening. I was sitting in the Harrisburg airport waiting for my brother to pick me up that quick.

22:42 What I felt was A Soldier's job was over with I knew I would never get to deploy again, but then treat me to become a medic. I've been trying to recruit me with the guard would let me go now that I'm going to the guards like

23:03 Be free and so

23:06 Why was and so I join the reserves and ended up whenever deployed and actually came back in form to thank you for what you trying to do. I think I save somebody's life. So I still had I still was participating in the mission.

23:28 So then what happened after that eventually I did get caught up in a medical review board. So answer the questions as honestly as the sergeant kind of making sure the process is going to step outside 15 minutes later. I walked back in I didn't expect to receive kind of a verdict right then they told me we're going to recommend you for medical discharge because of non deployability and I was just done by the time and those shallow pockets of your Army service uniform. I somehow lost a coin in my truck and I was so stunned actually good looking for that coined that I'm hearing with me today right now in my pocket of her about two weeks post and you were that day. So what was that date that you left a service 33 April 2011 was my last day.

24:25 And you just decided not to appeal that assessment then they were down to the point where I wouldn't be able to survive.

24:37 Is there anyone that you served with that you remember to this day? Fondly?

24:42 Yeah, my first Duty assignment sort of broccoli and Lieutenant Burleson gave me a great start to my career is my Franklin Templeton. I maintained contact we visit each other a couple times and actually wrote letters back and forth for quite a few years smother good leaders that I had now Colonel toggle and Colonel Lawson how to be a good good leader from the officer of perspective. I am often very thankful for starting Condon starting bomb who made training future Medics a lot of fun and inspired me to stay stay on top of my game during deployments are my my battle buddy didn't want we were assigned to find most missions together. So remember Dean we're finally Lisa Lynn when my tent mates of when we can make me laugh so hard I had tears coming down my face and it and my good buddy dancer oarsmen. We met in parking garage and Saudi Arabia and I figured

25:42 Leadership just must Chase cuz he's smart and he's waited any sarcastic and and he really knows his stuff and I was like, that's that's the guy I want to be in the stuff with enough. We return from deployment. We remain friends wrote back and forth. And now we live an hour away from each other and get to hang out with each other once in awhile. He did his wife really great people would still want to be in the stuff there a lot of fun there. They they understand and put effort in the understanding by Frenship. So when you were deployed did you ever do anything fun near the standard games or she's still love pitching horseshoes to this day, you know volleyball nearest to the Tee Golf competitions touch football, you know that sort of stuff that the standard Cana

26:32 You know outdoor BBQ games, but you never want to watch why do some price and a my favorite was one of my special at those years of slept on the military cots. And I don't talk about that hard bar when she come in one time and I wish I wish I was taller as to why I got the bright idea bar and a hacksaw and when she headed off to work every day, I would swallow about a half-inch L for kite likes and it makes a perfect bracket when you saw aluminum. So a lot of people knew what I was doing and it come by in like thumbs-up thumbs-down. Does she know yet know what's going on for weeks?

27:15 Dominican shop light with her feet. We're on flat on the floor and she didn't notice her now. She was sitting where you know, she's actually like sitting on top of her kitbag the shed and he's there cut still doesn't find out what happened to his and he got a picture of that the legs of an army cot triangles getting a shorter and shorter base as a finally she rolls overnight Netflix rap who is cat getting shorter and I just had a laughing so now he was coming by thumbs up thumbs down and give it a thumbs up and goes around the compound. So this story started a little do, you know a little

27:55 A prank war back and forth between the two of us and each other ways like that was just an odd sort of back in in the way to let people know that you were paying attention to him. That's all I have. Another question. I'm interested in. Is there anything that you wish civilians really truly do about the military service first and foremost, a lot of people that served is that the the people the military aren't kind of Monolithic blocked that Hollywood tries to give you a glimpse of the wrist. So many more nuances to who serves why they serve how they view their service the second thing that such a large organizations the military. There's always going to be issues with people and processes. But the people that I met were seeking to be most were seeking to be professionals somm wine more than I wish they would have him and that is kind of one of the things that adjust to the military life is not like the wind.

28:55 You down just try to find a way to you know address their needs so they didn't become whiners and drag the next person down but most people want to be professionals. They want to see these ideals that the that the military has proposed realized in Vegas. The first thing is that true when your military service you give you a significant amount or at least a fair amount of your civil rights, and yes, you're going to go on deployments where there are people they're going to want to engage you have some sort of lethal Force.

29:33 But the but I want to thank and and I think of many people is really not giving a patient that has mine was on a day-to-day you do on deployment that are dangerous, you know on almost a day-to-day basis or is it regular basis as mine was that are just as flat out hard as mine were you do on deployment or maybe even you don't Garrison and they do this every day I do this every day. I was really just kind of a job, you know where and what they call White cycle.

30:14 Dora the price range. Are they doing heated horn dangerous things thanks to this but it's funny to me. So what word or phrase will never be the same for you do to your time in the service for so long. I hate it drives me crazy the way civilians write dates and times I will never I was just a I'm a I'm going to have the time and make them been to me and I'll write it military date and time and the other is the phrase Rodger Rodger that I say that so much that anybody that spend a significant amount of time with me picks up on it and and often get teased about saying Rodger and all of our clocks in her house around military time is my watch. So, how did all those years in the military affect you over all your life perspective?

31:12 For one thing when I was a kid. I used to think I could go live in the woods and let his kind of solitary life. But after I actually having joined the military realize being a part of the team that is part of something bigger than yourself is just incredibly awesome experience to be with like-minded people to like my new mission is talking thing to put your filing date Financial, you know, wrist mental risk, you know how to think differently to push yourself to think differently other way is that you know, I'm always striving to find my limits That Never Ends. My father says, you know, what you going to do when your 18 that's what I figured that out.

31:59 Africa. Later cuz I always want to know my limits somebody might see in a little cartoon with the authorities trying to swallow the frog and the frogs half-eaten but he's choking a stork so bad at the historic military also some of that kind of our wrong you're all right. We just kind of hard if you can accept that they will open up your perspective in free you to a lot of things always always something different. That's how you know, my sort of running and hiding from the multiple sclerosis worked out for me. I was willing to learn and and try something different and experience. I was to get as much training and education as you can make yourself as versatile as you can it will help you not only specific maybe career but it in life in general.

32:58 Also kind of think I started them more by that the Carpe Diem principal from Dead Poets Society. You know, we're all going to die or if you're brave heart fan, you know every man dies but not every man really lives in SoCal to be focused in the day, you know where the near future with it with a sense of openness. So it sounds like from that you learned a lot about yourself as well.

33:21 Yeah, I mean exposed to so many different people in so many different situations and not I've been accused of thinking too much. Do you know ya some people might joke that I swallowed Kool-Aid but but I think I'll always the Army values of the new my spells that leadership of loyalty Duty respects selfless service honor integrity personal courage, they often did and do so the two kind of smelled it together a little bit. I learned it something fellow soldiers. Just trying to make it through like me and make it through a good leader. I'm more than what I was told her. I was a good leader. Towards the longest would have lines of being a good leader.

34:16 That died that yes discipline is only thing I didn't have to really just a military discipline definitely of discipline life. Definitely makes me feel settled in my mind. So I imagine people could put that on my Tombstone, you know.

34:42 And so that discipline is so when the way is it that I struggle with the unpredictability and largely uncontrollable effects of multiple sclerosis. It's always more difficult to make in the service because discipline allowed me do it. He can't it impinges on my my daily life. Sometimes you might like hour by hour.

35:13 But it goes back to what you were talking about with a PDG to doesn't it always until people be like, you know, what Would You Do It All Over Again?

35:30 Absolutely. Join the military all over again knowing what I know now.

35:37 The great experience one more question if you were going to think about a legacy. What do you see is your legacy from your service in the military for others?

35:53 I would have to say one thing is that my legacy is that being being adaptable? So we're like struggling with any kind of service-connected disability take those Warrior tasks and applying for disability. Keep working it through. You know, it's a different kind of War. So that adaptability allowed me to stay 20 and 1/2 years. Did you know Legacy of being motivated motivated dedicated dedicated Legacy for women in the military? Hey are you know, well, I never got a chance to go to Ranger school. I think that by

36:40 But being one of the first because I think I was prying the first under a hundred twenty five female rotary Wing pilot, you know, so I clean the way you know that the school but I led the way for those that now have the opportunity to go to Ranger school. By the way. I was. I tried to let there are me to send me to Airborne school and they were like, no we've spent a lot of money making you a pilot. We're not going to let you jump out of perfectly airplanes say paid for insulin side to do it. Well, thank you very much for sharing your story and your service and I look forward to our at that service dog when he gets here. I didn't know he's going to he's going to be here.

37:41 That's right. Well, thank you. You're welcome.