Joe Lamb and Emilie Bouvier
Description
Joe Lamb tells Emilie Bouvier about volunteering at International Center after struggling with depression. A psychologist recommended volunteering and Joe Lamb maintains it was the best advice he ever took.Subject Log / Time Code
Participants
- Joe Lamb
- Emilie Bouvier
Venue / Recording Kit
Tier
Partnership
Partnership Type
OutreachKeywords
Subjects
Transcript
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00:08 Hello, my name is Emilie Bouvier. I'm 29 years old and today we are Tuesday December 4th of 2007. And I'm here today was Joe at the International Center in New York.
00:24 My name is Joe lamb and I just had my 71st birthday. Today's date is December 4th, nineteen?
00:36 To 7007 and Emilie is a colleague in the International Center.
00:47 That's how it always says that I say bonjour and she says
00:55 Entire like that. Yes.
00:57 Thank you for accepting my invitation to be interview today. Thank you for inviting me. I hope it's not an interview, but I don't want it. It's our first day that it has been knowing each other.
01:19 So the reason why I wanted to have this conversation with you today is because you are the first person I met at the International Center. It was back in March of 2006 are so bad a year-and-a-half ago proximately and you introduced me to the center and you told me and other prospective members of the International Center what the center offer Us and how its volunteers could help us improve our English and you actually convinced me to sign up and take classes at the International Center and I was proud. Yeah, and that's so you're to me you're the face and the Heart of the International Center and I remember you telling me another prospective members at the end of the orientation. Well, this is my story and
02:16 Although I keep listening and hearing that sentence again. And again, I feel like I don't know your story or I know too few little things about you that I am curious to know more and learn more and I'm sure a lot of the international centers member would love to know more about you, too. So I have a few questions for you.
02:39 Ask I'm actually a little bit nervous and I have stopped at what what you called stage fright.
02:49 I'm sure you know a little bit about stage fright, right? Yes, I do. I know a lot. What do you know about that? Well, I know that I always had stage fright. I was a performer for many years and I finally gave it up because I was just terrified, you know, and that's something you don't know where it comes from. But I do know I guess everybody feels her but on a Saturday I never have stage fright, really never.
03:15 Is that well it because it's so positive and it's very interesting and then I don't have to approve anything. And so when I come here, I'm just a totally relaxed and I never prepare. I just come here and let it out. Let it happen and how would you describe it? What is it? I wouldn't wear I described it as a sort of a community center school, but in the best possible way because it's a hundred percent positive. Everybody comes here because they want to and we have I think maybe 900 volunteer teachers or can we call them Partners conversation partner and they are come here to meet people from I think maybe 80 countries and they want to which means they're happy even though
04:15 Nobody gets paid. Okay, and I think it's extraordinary because it's the atmosphere is palpable. You can just feel it when you walk in the door. And as soon as the these people arrived maybe they've been a New York for you know a week maybe years, but they relax and then they began to be more confident especially in the spoken English, which is what we do here. Number one. That's funny that you say it's a hundred percent positive because I remember a year ago when Meredith Holman was our volunteer services director interviewed me for the position of her assistant. I told her a couple of times I feel like nothing. I mean that everything that happens here is positive that only positive things can happen in it after the interview was like maybe it sounds naive and I felt bad about it, but
05:15 Exactly. So, when did you come to the the International Center? Where was brought about 20 years ago. I had a little experience at another similar but not as good place and then I came here and originally, you know, I have two hours a week and we were in a different location if it was not so luxurious and then 40th Street and then but you know is time went on and I retired and then I have more time and now I come here about 2 maybe 20 hours a week and it's like a job but it's not work at all. And I hate work. I hated work all my life and I did as little as I could.
06:01 But your everyday you're dressed as if you were going to work, as you said you didn't I am close that I've tried to come to the center and to volunteer could probably it was on the advice of a psychologist who wanted me to get out of the house, you know, and so well, you know, I went to a few places and one thing led to another and when I came here, I found something very important to me at a place and itch you know, really because all of my needs are satisfied here almost all and because I can do what I do and what I am good at and it's just every day a holiday for me really. So what then when I stay home, I'm I'm just kind of an old man and I sit there and watch TV and the really
07:00 Don't go out much. And when I come here I Revitalize do not want I feel wonderful and but it just happens that it's the chemistry of what happens here. That's perfect for what I can do. Okay, cuz I can be a performer. I can be a very quick area so I can meet a lot of people which I really enjoy and I can also meet people that teach me about the whole world and it changes the attitude that anybody in the center has about what's happening today. I was asking people about the election in Venezuela. I asked people from Venezuela and that's rare, you know, you really get it from the horse's mouth. But over many years. It's like a mosaic and you put all these little bits together that
08:00 Learn about their culture and their humor and just everything and it becomes of a wonderful experience. So you beautifully summarize what you experience here at the center, but you've been here for 20 years. So how was it? Like, how was it back? Then? Was it the same difference or changed over the years? I would say that a lot of things to get over and one of them was just not a happy person and I guess you know as time went on I had more control over what I did which was very little and I lost a lot of this negativity and depression. I would call it depression and which I still probably experience but I don't see it. It doesn't extend here.
09:00 And so I think you know it was a question of my what happened to me in here that helped me enormously, you know and still happens. But now I'm you know, I'm I just almost a different person and I don't know when it happened but it seems to me that one day I looked around and I sort of said well, this is pretty amazing because her all these people, you know from all these countries and that's a very rare opportunity. You know, it's almost never happens and I think most American people just know people like themselves and then I begin to meet people I might say I'm going to be 5 people every day which I did and you know, it's a curious thing, but if a person is a stranger
09:52 And I identify with that and one person kind of breaks the ice. You can make all the difference in the world and I learned that rather slowly but I had a lot of experience as we're just saying hello, my name is and where you from and then but somebody's got to do it first and so in a way what happened with us. I know what the center does and what it can do and I want you to know you can have a remarkable effect because I suddenly you're included and you know that you don't have to you know it so you can have a wonderful time and I know that it's changed the experience of really thousands of people the New York experience by coming here.
10:49 I think what you said is so true in terms of sometimes just being in a place where someone that's willing to I talk to you. Do you know if any of some of those interactions?
11:04 And I guess her hold 20 years of being here. Where are some some some people in particular that stood out in your memory outfit and maybe were apprehensive about being here. And I know I can.
11:21 Anytime when your course of being here. Oh, yeah. I know. I think what I what I feel is for example, there was a young man from who is Armenian and this is maybe 10 years ago and you know why I introduced myself I talk to him and I guess I was very positive about you know, and he was extremely sad his grandfather was dying and Russia and couldn't go home and you really wanted to give up and I somehow what I said to him was important and I don't exactly remember what I was wearing it out and you know, he for all these years he the other day. He called me from Miami on my birthday.
12:16 And he also provides me with a cell phone case for it and I but I don't really understand it. But I know we've had so many people from core political Asylum use and it really had to horrendous experiences and somehow, you know, it just as simple as that and then you kind of embrace each other. It happens all the time and especially my students from Tibet who've been through a lot and they're absolutely wonderful people but you know, just the idea that's in the idea of being close to people that have had this experience. And of course, I feel totally lucky now that I have, you know, I'm I don't complain anymore about these stupid things in my own life, you know, I know what it's like we've had the people who work victims of torture.
13:17 From Africa and there was one young man. That was so nice, but he'd had his teeth knocked out, you know and somehow I managed to get you know, this social service to get his teeth done and made a huge difference in he got a job actually right away. So but there are many stories and now we have a young man from Iran and he's been here a couple of months but he's having a kind of a bad time is uncle wants him out of the house and he is so extremely naive about America. So now we're trying to network to get him some kind of a job and a Inn in the center. We everything is about networking and it happened for you because you got a job so I think but I would say
14:17 The ideas that just stood there any time you don't know what impact you're having, you know, but the real impact is on me because I'm involved and I'm not the kind of person who are you know, I don't carry the center outside with me. I don't have any social life from the center of miss my problem. But there you are, you know, but I know I have this place which is kind of like a refuge for me and then I go home and rest.
14:45 As you said it's that the International Center is also refused for many members who have had difficult lives safe place. I have here our annual report, which is this Communications document and there's a list of words that we thought we represent the center and one of them is home. And I mean, it's another word to get some you home yet often times for many of the members and what's a really a home for me because as I say, I don't have much going on outside and I guess I don't want to but you know, what a lot of fun as I say, it's a place where I am. I really found what I can a place where I can do what I can do. Well, that's a secret of anybody if you can do one thing well and you have the opportunity and if
15:45 You can do one thing that other people appreciate and that is helpful to them than that's that's a happy person. See you do a lot of different things each classes you Orient new members answer questions.
16:05 What do you do best and what performer and that's what I really am.
16:17 And so that I don't know if it has much to do with teaching it has to do with you know, that me being on stage in a way. I think the meeting people introducing myself to people is the best cuz that can as I say change and pack today. I've met at least five people just seeing them and knowing that they're new or they're just checking it out and just a few words can make a big difference now, but you know, if you meet a lot of people it becomes very easy.
16:52 And I've had so many people that it's just a it's so easier just to go up and say hi. And you know, do you maintain a relationship in a connection with all of them possibly? You know, I keep some people keep in touch.
17:11 On my birthday. I was taking out to dinner by one of my students about of about 20 years ago to a nice restaurant. He's doing very well, you know, and I got the emails quite a bit. But as I say, I'm not a social person outside if people invite me to dinner I go because it's Bad Manners not to but I learned that you know, I want to give you tell them no, I don't but I mean to know I can have a good dinner, but it it seems to me that it's an insult to say no. I can't return the favor in a way, but that's about it.
17:50 So I wish I had the time to survey all the members, but I'm pretty sure that if we would ask them all members know you at the center and all of them except me. I have to confess. I attended your class at least once and so you teach funny classes and one of them is called funny thing about English. What is that to me? English is really funny and but it's not taught that way and it's taught. You know what I'd like to teach Latin, you know, and I think it's funny. But also, I'm not a teacher and I'm not even very good at English grammar to know I have a lot to call A.D.D. Which is a learning disability and I never learned very much.
18:50 Except you learn in a different way you pick out little bits here and there and you put them together and I'm very good at that you learn how to do it. But I think in the class I teach exactly what I can do. I mean in that sense, it's completely original and a but I I couldn't teach any other way. I just wouldn't know how I know.
19:15 Give me examples. I mean, I know you cared weird English is and how hard it is.
19:23 We talked a few that you're saying they're what you doing the class and if you feel like how how students are affected by a humorous approach that I think that really really odd. I mean because you don't know why people laugh at certain things but I think somehow I am funny to other cultures. I'm not sure why I think maybe it's cuz I I make faces, you know, I act it out and it's rather music and I use a lot of popular culture in the class. And in the class. Everybody has to repeat everything that I say and or sang do you know and so the whole class which is very large has the experience of verbalizing and the kind of English way, but I would say it's more like a nightclub Act.
20:21 I like I'm able to improvise. I don't know how but something comes out and I but also I I play with the audience. So kind of like a comedian make fun of them a joke with him and it says so I don't really understand how I do it I do to this day, but if for example if I walk into the class and I just start with my you know, and everybody has to snap and then I was saying okay, I want to be happy but I can't be happy till I make you happy too before and then they have to say that and I say life's really worth living if you armor is giving I want to give some to you bump bump bump and then the whole class has to do that. We have to keep the rhythm going, you know, and then I'll just saying, you know, I had a terrible night last night, you know, you know, I couldn't sleep I ate too much. I ate too fast. I ate too much I do fast and then I have to repeat that and it's just kind of a continuing.
21:21 You know the sex change and people kind of get into it and I think it's helpful because they they don't take it. So seriously, and for some people it's very helpful because so many of these people are really shy and shyness is a curse, you know, especially for Asian people in particularly Japanese people and you know, they suffer so much and if you can kind of get through that then it makes a big change. I think I mean you really can and also people need to know the New York is quite different than any other place and nobody's paying attention to you and nobody cares what you do. Okay, so you have a lot of freedom here and once they figure that out, it's very
22:11 It frees them up a lot and I can testify that your class is a real show not only for the members who attend but for their whole Center because members lineup like at least an hour events to make sure that they can get a stitch or at your class or and then yes, and there's we have three main classrooms and there's a divider between two of them and we have to open the divider so that Joe lamb can have his class and at least 15 members and amazing and then even when the doors are closed from anywhere in the central you can hear Joe saying something in the members repeating and she can feel that they have fun and and they want to be there and they get a lot out of that. So I'm sure that your experience as an actor help helps you. I mean you can vote for former is different.
23:11 But I think you know what you're something to do I can do and I learned over years how to do it so that it wasn't, you know an ordeal. If you have to know that you go in and something will come out of your mouth something of you always so kind of a gift that I would never have had a chance of using anywhere else I suppose, you know, and that's one of the reasons are so positive for me is because I can and I found something, you know that I can do and I sent you do something. Well, that's a Kik. So tell me a little bit more about your previous Life as a performer before you found the center where and for who did you perform I went to a lot of acting schools and a lot of you know, what's a good singer and I did two shows different places. I was not a great success at all. I think I was talented and I was rather limited by you know this add.
24:11 Emotional problems or view no shyness, but I think I I did some interesting things over about maybe 20-30 Years A lot of times I didn't work and that's probably because you know, I was very unhappy if I worked and very unhappy if I didn't work, you know, and it's probably easier not to work but I would I would say that I really didn't have the confidence or the experience and you know, if you're an actor performer, you have to do it all the time, which is the hardest thing of all and in the center, I do it all the time and then you know what you really develop when you stretch a little you know, sometimes sometimes I feel like I'm repeating myself and you might get a little stale and then something else will happen and I kind of get to little more inspiration or stretch a little further. What is your favorite play? I'll stop the world. I want to get off.
25:11 Which is a basically kind of a mime show, but actually if not mine, but it's something fever but no end of the stage and I played this every man. It's a British Musical and I was very good in that and that's that show has what kind of fool am I never fell in love in a beautiful songs. And that was my favorite role fortunately was quite a long time ago, you know, and I played on a lot of just boring things, you know, but the problem is, you know, you have to if I did a show in Seattle Washington and you were hers two weeks and you play two weeks by the time it closes you're ready to open.
25:55 You know, it's like a it's I never had enough experience to really be confident. And when did you start feeling confident at the center from daylight? No, no, not at all. I was sober and I had a lot of hostility. Oh yes very much. And I think I don't know when it when it happened but maybe a little by little I began to feel comfortable here. And you know, my my problem is I need for attention and which performers have you know and a but I think it was always you know me me me me me kind of thing. And now I I think I lost a lot of that. I mean I love getting attention, but you know, I don't go home, you know worried about it I much love you, no less sensitive about that kind of thing. And but I have a good time.
26:54 I mean really good.
27:06 The group of people that maybe you know having their own stage fright write a language in, Georgia.
27:20 I would say principal. You know, what is it in my class if I have 50 people I made my stage to view at the 13th Street Theater and they had 50 seats and very often the somewhere empty and you do the show and then you here just like like this, you know, and it to me, it's like a full house. It's like you're sometimes standing room only, you know and a but its people and it's an audience and it it's it's the same thing. I think I get the same kind of kick out of it cuz I approach it as a performance and a lot of singing and people getting up and doing crazy things and little Japanese lady singing Stop in the Name of Love before you break my heart, which is really great. You know, and I I I think it's so kind of gift that I have with people but it doesn't it's not typical of my life. I think outside. I'm real.
28:20 Quite difference but in the center, it's it's a place that makes me you know, it brings out. Whatever I can do. I don't think there would be any other place like this for me, but I'm just lucky. It's just a break. When did you found find out about this gift as you name it? I think I I I think probably not so long ago and I knew I was a good singer and I was not done some good work, but I was rather stiff, but I think you know, I have all this tradition of all these great performers and I always will, you know went to the movies and I always love
29:03 Shows and musicals and comedy and all this and I think I'm just kind of a composite and sometimes I'd I do you know what Jimmy Durante and sometimes I do Carol Burnett better Shirley Temple, but I do my first my public personality is kind of like I just putting together all these people and it's a little schizophrenic. I think I know because even when I'm talking to somebody I keep you may have noticed I start singing at the drop of a hat and and it makes me feel rather uncomfortable. But the the trick is not caring. Is there a Cubchoo? I was sure I was singing today earlier about something. I don't know why.
29:47 Was anyone in your family in that field or in your childhood as we went to the movies? That was it didn't have television and you know that we just went to the movies all the time. And we and everybody at that time wanted to be a star and they wanted to you know, we all did shows and show business and loved it. You know, so, I mean, I I think that as many people, you know you I'm really on top of of that. You know, I'm I'm going to result of all of that background just comes out when if it gets you made me is that you lend me DVDs we both understood that we love movies and very nice of you to make me come out at all to know if you like
30:47 Standing. Oh, yeah. That was Phoenix. Right? Well, I'm not so big on movies. Now. I watched you know, I'm a channel switcher mean. I'm a visual I love the changing, you know, but I learned a lot from TV. It's not just films. It's not not just entertainment.
31:13 Hot little bit myself. It sounds like we could revolutionize.
31:18 ESL you can revolutionize teaching to the point of making it fun and entertaining and I'm just wondering if all the process of being involved in learning here at the Centre has made you look at your own learning disability differently like thinking about the way that you went through school and maybe start
31:40 Add to becoming a teacher well, like I think what I've learned is that I can't prepare anything. Okay. So the morning of the class I go over a few of the old notes and everything, but I could never do it the day before and it's a very serious thing because I never really prepared for anything and I was a terrible student and it was just so horrible to go to school every day and have to sit there cuz time is very different. So a short time becomes a very long time and but I don't know how other people learn and I don't understand how all of these students study English because it's like crazy. I mean there is just doesn't make any sense at all and I have to go mind. My little thing is just a little little cupcake, you know a little moment, but I I think they have to sit down and learn all this stuff which I don't even know, you know, I couldn't parcel center.
32:40 I don't think they do that anymore. But I think I've learned about myself. I'm extremely Limited in many ways, but I have certain strengths and I think that's the trick is that people should be helped to find what they can do well, and if you do one thing well, I don't care what it is. I could be a video game, you know anything then you can have confidence and now I have a lot of confidence that I never had even as a former that's very interesting and I will have my sister listen to that because I don't know if she has ADD or anything else like that, but I think had the same experience going to school for her was like hell she couldn't sit for an hour in front of a teacher. She would hate that hate them all for trying to have her learn and it's
33:40 Singing and she didn't get her degree. She didn't graduate and everything, but she I know she has a lot of strength strength as you said and but I'm not sure if she's aware of them and I hope that you can listen to your wife by accident. It's like fate and I say, you know, who knows maybe your whole life led to this moment. And so I always tell them don't don't think about the next class, you know, because this is our time together and maybe that was what was supposed to eat when I don't believe it really but I think it's a curious idea, you know sort of thing.
34:27 Do you remember when the first time that is due to either called you or contacted you and how it made you feel if they if they like you so much that they wanted to have dinner with you they wanted to.
34:43 To see you and you know, I don't understand why people like me and I think maybe it's cuz I'm just so you know, I'm kind of a phony, you know, I mean in other words, you know the nicest possible way, but I'm I am kind of a composite of all these different parts and different people and but I don't really understand it and it happens a lot and now I kind of trust it in a way but I really don't understand it and I don't particularly like myself and I don't admire myself knowing what Confucius you know, what's going on inside, but I just know I have to trust it because people are so kind to me and they seem to have a genuine affection for me, which is great. But I think it's just I don't really understand at all, and I'm just speaking for myself, but I think
35:39 Members see how sincere you are and how genuinely you look at them and how you accept them with all their strengths and weaknesses and you'll look at them. I mean and they're not only English language Learners there people who arrived in New York don't know anybody and need to hand in someone who helped us the secret meeting people and being interested in them. But I think that's probably the most important thing for everybody has to be interested and I know people walk into the center like me to predict the Asian people and they don't look on either side they go directly where they're going but I see everything and if I'm in the subway, I check everybody out and you know, there's some kind of a thing going on between us and you know, sometimes I remember people I've seen once in the subway, but I think that's just it was a different too kind of way of looking at things but very interested in other people.
36:39 Yeah, that's fortunately what the hell that you know, but I don't know. I think it's just a brilliant. It's just lucky for me, you know that I managed to find this but I do think that there are ways to teach ESL of that are not used and one of them is you learn the way children learn by repetition, but it should be fun repetition. It shouldn't just be wrote, you know, and I think there's something to it. I'm not sure other people could do it because they're not performers, you know, and if you're not a performer, you wouldn't understand the process and you wouldn't understand how to play with people how to tease them so that they accepted and you know, what's in a while I make a mistake.
37:27 Can I make it sometimes like I imitate a Chinese lady singing and like this and I think sometimes that offense in a little bit but I can get away with it, I guess because i'm I love them. It's just great. I mean I just love these people, you know, and I I just I can't even express it. It's just it's so fulfilling in but I mean if you look in the face of somebody from Tibet or from Burma from Venezuela from frost most people don't know French people. I know and I just think it's so extraordinary and I think at the moment I learned that that's when I found my my place because you know, if you really look at people and everybody's got to know was in the middle, you know how but they're very similar and people are very I think if people have an opportunity to to really become
38:27 People and relax people are nice, you know, and I I think that's and you know, I think it's really easy to be nice easier than being unpleasant and I learned that you know, cuz you know, just say hello. How are you? What's your name? Oh how you doing? Thought so jokes are friendly, you know the joke with people and I think that's just a revelation to me just being interested in people looking at them. I will be a little bit unpleasant that I have to tell you that I disagree with you. I'm starting to think so good. And one of the thing is that I often time. I hear you say no I see you write on the board when U members are here. I'm Joe the average Joe. What does that mean? I can it's a Jolie. It's a joke.
39:19 What if it's a joke that point is that a JoJo that we'd actually refer to the average Joe. I don't know if you have that person in your country, but in France, it's Yvonne, Ivanovic, Michigan. I mean in Russia and but that we talked about the average Joe they were ordinary working guy. Okay, and it's possible to say that this guy is a good Joe. Okay, that's my introduction to myself and so is he's a good Joe is not very smart. But he's a nice guy bartenders, you know, the bus driver, you know sort of thing and that's just a way to someone abusing way to introduce myself, but beyond the drug Beyond The Joe do you really think you're the adverage average Joe? No Mires a virtual because you know, they do their work and they have their families, but I know I don't have a family. I you know, I'm really rather limited and I think it's much better to be average and to have a life.
40:20 And as I say, you know, my life is only interesting in a rather small way. But a very Vivid way for me, but other people would have, you know, a whole lot broader, you know, and they they have children and grandchildren and their children graduate and then they have grandchildren and I don't have any of that insane.
40:42 Yes, but you I mean you have all these gifts and there's all this time that you gave to the sent the members Center the centers member. I'm sorry. And I mean I work as the volunteer services coordinator. That's day and every day I ain't you new volunteers the way you meet with new members and there is this great thing about most of them that they want to give their time and talents and energy to our members and it's I think volunteerism is great and you've you over your doing more than just having giving 2 hours a week and it's much more than that. And I think it's like, what would I do? You know some people volunteer to do work that is dangerous. Some people wash ducks that are covered with oil and I'm saying and what I do is 100% fun.
41:41 Oh, and so I think that gets less points, you know, but I think of volunteering is to take me again. I disagree with you again, you do. Okay. Well, I'm sorry but in my opinion which I respect I'm right.
42:01 Okay. Listen, I really enjoyed the interview and I enjoy you and you're always very sweet and positive and I love to say hello to you. But we never appreciate husband JoJo very sweet way and I'm I'm a Francophile. Anyway, you know, I love French music. I love you know French films and I and what other French words do you know? Well, I know I can sing Jose to some Josephine Baker was an American lady went to France and I've always loved France, you know, but it's nice to know. I lovely French lady, you know, we sing another French song. I think maybe I'm not sure. I know C'est si bon.
42:58 Not a not so or anything. Okay. Okay. Well, I always sing at the end of my classroom Carol Burnett. I say I'm so glad we had this time together just to have a laugh and sing a song. It seems we just get started and before you know it.
43:24 Just like that comes the time we have to say so long. Goodbye. Everybody hero so long, darling.