Maude Clay and Chuck Lamb

00:02 My name is Chuck lamb. I am 58 years old. Today is February 20th. I'm in Clarksdale, Mississippi at the blues Museum and I'm here today with the Maude clay, and she and I will be discussing things about the blues and Clarkstown.

00:33 My name is Maude Schuyler clay. I am 60 years old. Today's date is February 20th. 2014 location is blues Museum in Clarksdale, Mississippi relationship to Chuck is we've known each other for a long time both photographers in the delta.

00:58 Wilmot we were talkin a minute ago and the blues Museum began here at the Clark still.

01:10 Library, and you told me you were in New York at that time 1974 to 1987 and I believe that was when Sid whose last name is Graham Sid Graves. Yeah, he had a little corner of the universe over the library and he he was personally very interested in all things blues and art and I believe he contacted me because I had some photographs of berries Blues musicians and my mother had a painting of Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil at the crossroads that she had painted.

01:57 Anyway, basically, he was just looking for people to donate things to the collection and you know, fine people that work and draw it was definitely a very passionate about it. Cuz I I moved to Clarksdale from Greenwood and 82 and I don't know that I even I knew what the blues will as but you know, I just didn't have any idea that the history of the Blues in this area and yellow Sid got a relationship with the years easy top and Gibbons and I remember Clarksdale starting to get really come alive or we would know. I don't know if you remember those two moons down on the friar Point Drive or Road and sitting there eating red beans and rice on a Thursday afternoon Thursday lunch in Gibbons coming in from ZZ Top and like you do.

02:51 Well that was back to this guy with his beard. I didn't put him in place and was like, who is this guy? Didn't I realize he was like, what's he doing here? I think that was important that some of these few well-known musicians in my case. I mean probably wouldn't even known about the blues if it hadn't been for the Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton and all those English rock groups that we grew up worshipping but it was all right here at the source. We had some local I grew up in Tallahatchie County and we had some local Blues people that you know would play for white dances and stuff and coming to Greenwood all the sun Thomas. There was an old guy that was from Greenville.

03:49 His name was Snowball and he was a one-man band. He played drums harmonica and the guitar.

03:59 And I guess maybe that was my real first. I was about 10. That was my first real brush with a real Blues person. I can remember I don't know if you know that member that Thomas is in the hardeman's in Greenwood Egypt Plantation at all and Robert and Robert Hardeman and I are same agent and I used to go when I was in 3rd 4th 5th grade back in the 60s and go out there and spend the weekend and his dad we were I mean we were in Plantation in and we used to go to I guess they were the Gin joints more the is Rodger refers to him to the music houses, you know, where they just they end up Friday afternoon or Saturday afternoon, they'd all come together at somebody's house and it would end up a party and music and I can remember us and that little Volkswagen in the sitting sitting there listening to the music.

04:59 Turn Road, you know back there and really not realizing you and I look back now and I think if I had to us and off but I mean that you do now that I'm learning about the blues, you know, but that type of thing I'm I'm really just people Gathering and places and drinking playing music and that wouldn't be an International Harvester place in Greenwood and his dad used to let Parker and Jack they want to close the shop down on Saturday. They clean it out and he'd open up the back of it and we'd have bands come in and sit up and have dances in there and that's what he always got son Thomas cuz he come and play for whatever he could drink.

05:56 Well and memories like that, but

06:01 But you know what I'm talkin we we've been in Clarksdale. I've been here since 82 and UNC had started working on this and I was an avid fan of the library and going down there. I just didn't really understand the blues or what he was doing. I was just

06:17 You're being an artist in in in a profession that deals with art just passion we had to build this and he had no money. He had not a whole lot of back and got me some of the people were back in there. But for the most part people here in Clarksdale had no clue. I know it's here in Clarksville was all about the blues and that was something that was kind of swept under the rug at least by all the white people around here for so long. We had a whole street in Sumner Mississippi where I grew up for the six generations, and that was called either Backstreet or Bill Street, and there was a black movie theater.

07:08 Two cafes carry homes Cafe in the widows in and they often had live blues players in there. I mean this is like in the early sixties, but that music would go walking across Cassie by you where I lived and we would hear that music and I like real late at night when I ride around our bicycles and stuff and I think that had significant impact on one of the reasons that I just if I had to ever say that I had a favorite music or soundtrack to my life. It would be the Blues.

07:51 And it's just very early on that you notes little bits and pieces seeped in but what as you said, you know, this this Blues Museum was just kind of about throw it together ramshackled dream that the CID had you know, and look at it. Now people in not just cost of it in the Delta that do not even realize it exists and even if they know that it exists,

08:24 What is inside here in the Asian guy walking through here you coming to this and y'all mention to you every time I come in here and see something new and different Lowe's in the instruments and all that stuff. I mean is there was backstage Beatles Rolling Stones Elvis Presley images from all these things not just the blues. But like you said most of these rock stars had blue roots from Europe that that's they started listening to this old gospel and losing music and got their inspiration from what we're learning today from all the documentaries, but I think it's really late because I grew up you listening to rock and roll and things and now that I listened back to some of my music I'm like,

09:24 The station. Yeah, I think that was important that those English people were onto it way before we were I just saw an excellent documentary called Muscle Shoals, you know, that was an education cuz I'd heard bits and pieces if you know what kind of music was influencing who and when but not that kind of put the jigsaw puzzle together for a minute and then turn around and turn on the Grammys and the guy that was with the same recording in the ring.

10:10 Turn service to the industrial whatever but and I think I care a lot about Muscle Shoals, but I never knew about the fame recording studio, cuz I'm not I don't really delving the music recording part of it and all that but I am so as as a Clark still citizen now and being from Greenwood and raised in the Delta. Just so proud of what we have here. And I listen to a lot of the negativity about other things about the delta in the other areas and think like that, but we have something here that is so deep-rooted in the history of the culture in this area and this being just and people I think do tend to pick up their ears and have more respect for an institution.

11:10 If there's a museum then that means that people take it a little more seriously and I think that's what this museum has done for the blues and for a lot of black culture in general just you know, photography all culture really didn't know there's a lot of art is displayed here that I would probably never see your pay attention to the law the folk or are you going to shows here to Delta land show?

11:44 And then I had doubt the dogs and they took another seven years do the book or something. But Shelly was on the Forefront of the Delta dog show here and you know that it's just really on the pulse as far as the voice of this community and what's happened here.

12:08 Well, thank you. I miss the curators like like her that also have the passion for the history of it that have kept it.

12:17 Going for a community cuz she is constantly imprimis 24/7 involved in and working with it not yet, which is a miracle. Well in is anything in this climate, climate we have right now and she being able to do what she does in course with the help of people like the stovall's inn and other donors and things that have been most generous with their their resources and bring the Cornerstone. Why does PlayStation stay true to the museum even though most of them aren't living right here or farming right here anymore, but honestly, I'm here quite often. So that's why I like seeing that I liked to seen it come back and I like seeing the the other

13:12 Quote unquote famous artists come through and it's really cool to think that they think we've got something and we do have a huge tortoise base, you know, they used to be people that just showed up from Tokyo or Helsinki or wherever they landed from. You know, they go. Hey, we're here to see the blues never go to that little one-room place over at the Carnegie Library and then, you know, it's kind of morphed into this real institution some I'm glad too that there there's a place for people to come that are interested because it's a worldwide Interest come from all over and they love coming to Clarksville and we've got so many adopted residence now, I guess you could say with the Australians and we have so many Australians now that come

14:12 That we have a reception form and we've actually had people move here and be all those people are the people that are moving here are the ones that are revitalizing are downtown the meaning of your feet Thomas with the with a pink bar with the couple from Australia that are we doing the old dog Haggard drugstore. And yeah, they got that they're going to have an ice cream ice cream soda fountain thing. They are in the apartments that are being redone in the old Cotton buildings and spend the real estate in the just the general, you know, kind of pumping up of the community than just the numbers, you know, if that's what it takes his people from

15:12 In and out from the outside to make it happen. What it what have you you saying? What is your feeling on what what it's done for black community here like in the intermediate are cuz I'm in your urine Sumner but Clarksdale is in Sumner and probably either all, like sister sister cities here and then it seems like the summer people come can come this way or go to a Greenwood either way, but

15:42 Well, I've always thought the answer to you know, that every problem was education and

15:50 That takes all sorts of ground laying and Fino Financial things that need to be put into place.

16:02 It's hard to say, you know, what makes a community Thrive, but I think it's you know, the more educated people you have the better.

16:12 And when people you know when they bring a bunch of little kids here.

16:18 Primary race and I see what has happened in this part of the world. And you know, what kind of accomplishments have been made?

16:27 I think that's somewhat at what reinforcing to get out there and try to do something yourself and make me feel good and feel close to it. But I mean, it's just when I come in here for the Delta. I see that it's raising up the the blues artists who are probably 90% of who's represented in here or more black men that were almost your Pinetop and people like this that we're almost at the end of their life before they ever became that will known and now this this place to me,

17:17 Before us has helped bring that awareness.

17:21 It to people like me that you would have never known who Pinetop Perkins was and two and then let as you said the children can come in and see and here's yo, here's this figure that I mean, he was just a bug right piano player. Apparently. I'm a woman's man and Muddy Waters by black artist that struggled and struggled and struggled that were really good today. He was well-known all over the world and one of my personal faves, but you know it I don't I don't think it's really an easy life.

18:07 I'm having a live around here a few people have made it to the top by one of the people that I think was was very instrumental in this whole education and just more less you no respect for

18:27 Music was mr. Johnny Billington. He ran that after school program hear from any and I never saw him that he wasn't dressed in a suit and you know, it was like Hey kids. This is serious business. We're here to have fun. We're here to learn how to play the guitar in the drums and whatever but you know, he he took it very seriously and I think some good players. I mean number one to me. Is that King Fish guy? Who's just he's a giant with it because it's coming so fast, but being just kind of being exploited exploited by some people and and he's always is not him but haven't always going through these gigs and stuff of some of his friends.

19:27 But he thinks he's a superstar when you visit with him. He's such a quiet kid. It's just a very talented. Yeah.

19:40 The young what is the S line was supposed to come today, but he was working on deadlines for two projects and basically wave me out the door blind and grew up in New England and

20:03 Oak sorry Langdon close my husband who's also a photographer. I met him in 1976. I believe in New York and we lived there for many years and but we came back to Mississippi in the late eighties and he's also very much involved and trying to you know, get a record of the Mississippi Delta by being a photographer.

20:37 But yeah, I mean I wasn't outside or I guess you could call him an outside or after you know, 25 years. He still is believe me and my family anyway, cuz he's a Yankee.

20:50 He's one of those people. I think that that sees the sort of absolute beauty of the place, you know, cuz it's kind of far into him. And I mean you and I grew up with, you know, the fast rolling landscape of the fields in the skies and no Hills, but I promise you get the yeah, it's a beautiful place and I get real territorial about it. Not really being a photographer for being the only photographer but I just feel like, you know, if there's a job to be done. It's for me to do my work here.

21:35 Will the Apple grown I've been hearing in the Delta and been in Clarksville for 30 years, but in your grown-up in the Delton been here all my life and my dad was a transplant from Connecticut. So we go back. I guess Dad open the studio in Greenwood photography studio in the Greenwood 1947 and three generations now cuz my nephew's is running the studio in Greenwood, but I have spent my entire arm adult life making a living out of Photography and trying to make a living out of a kind of making making portraits and things like this just the day-to-day routine of of of trying to have a retail business and

22:32 And that's you know, that's where my what you were saying just a minute ago is where my efforts have gone over the last five to six years. Is that your I got to do something else.

22:45 With what I know in a lot of that is I'm going to capture what's here. Where a lot of it by just even the new performers. I'm going to these menus and photographing them in just storing them and it's like, you know, some may become someday or whatever but at least I have have a history of who they were and when they were y'all think that's that's really one of the reasons photography is so important is it, you know, it really gives us a record of some version of reality that you know, things exist didn't

23:23 I'll have the mule Barnes and Tenon houses and

23:28 Cypress sheds in the Mississippi Delta or gone since I started that project in 92 Delta land, but I mean, I was just really started out almost as an archivist. Just trying to take photographs of things that were there and now they're 90% of them been torn down or really change that that I'm trying to put some emphasis on but haven't had a lot of time to work on it but the the pharmacy changing from what you and I remember our headquarters is a moving into buildings downtown and they're running their it's more of a corporate business now becoming very technical. I mean they were running their water systems and everything about computer and they can do all that by Wi-Fi and internet so they know they don't have to be as much a hands.

24:28 Phone right there in the field as they used to be the people running it anyhow, but the barber shops are still there cuz you still got to change a flat on a tractor and you know it and I'm hoping to catch some of that before it's all gone all gone in the equipment. That's yo. We see so much equipment just laying in the field follow in the Hills places. I've I ride a motorcycle in the back roads, but I just in some through the hills in the Kudzu just taking over some of these

25:01 Hard hard, you know old pieces of equipment that are just lay there and rusted so it's kind of cool but you know, like the field churches I mean and charges in general back in the days of Fannie Lou Hamer and although she's probably the most famous but the right people were trying to get the right to vote back in the late fifties and sixties, you know, what the church was the main place where people could go and talk about that kind of stuff, you know, they'd still bomb the hell out of them from time to time and or you know, anybody there anybody that was known to be affiliated with any

25:55 Civil rights work back in those days was really taking their lives in their hands and I think the photographs that were made back in that era or very very important. I just my dad had a fire in 55 and then another one in 60 and I just wish I'd had some of the images from those early years Greenwood and Pete Seeger, and you know, just all these talk about your nationally-known musicians know it was a place

26:28 That a lot of attention negative attention was brought people to this part of the world, but I think the blues museum is accentuating. The positive is the song goes by bringing in people and just letting them know how many assets I mean skews me aspects of of the history of the Delta all these other businesses are popping up because they wouldn't have the restaurants in the venues and I wouldn't have the clientele if it wasn't for people want to come and see this Museum to send a little Timber up to Sid Graves wherever he may be ear to ear because he was

27:28 Has rained to see this and it's come forward and come this far. I think it's wonderful and knowing knowing him and remembering him like I remember him is that I just I know he's he is great. So, I think it's great.