Jeff Rosen and Bridgetta Bourne-Firl

01:44 With them to do their intros now.

02:11 I'm Jeff Rosen. I'm 53 years Young.

02:16 Today is July 25th, 2015 almost the 25th anniversary of the Ada tomorrow. I'm here talking with my dear friend.

02:29 Too and I met at gallaudet and continued on since then and we're in Washington DC.

02:35 My name is bridgetta bourne-firl.

02:39 Today is July 25th and 47 years old.

02:45 We're in Washington DC and we're filming talking about the deaf president now movement and its relation to the Ada.

02:54 Okay, so you a question for me? Yeah, I do.

03:02 Do you remember when deaf president now happened in 1988 spring?

03:11 And then two years after that the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990.

03:21 I was a college student in that time in 1988 and you were

03:27 You were one of the four student leaders and then you were you Jeff you were I never meant to ask about why were you what made you take that stand at that time? You are really strong believer in the deaf president. Now you really believe that now now now 1988 was time. I had known your mother was at my mother at that was very strong, but you were very strong about different now. So what made you so strong about that?

03:59 The ra group of us adult deaf people

04:08 And my group

04:11 All I deaf parents was something with us name of the four student leaders. Yes. They were the fortune leaders house, but

04:19 Your community were connected with strong we had communication.

04:26 And we had decided that when they decided that zinsser had been selected president.

04:37 I was working it at EEOC at the time.

04:42 And I thought why would we accept this as a as a fact?

04:47 I really struggled with that. I thought this is impossible people need to wake up. We have to do something.

04:55 The PTT wives were used at that time when I was at and prior to DPN. This was prior to gpn TTYL. You forgot what a TTY it's a new world amazing and back before tpn. I contacted the friend Paul Singleton. I said we need to do we need to have a rally we need to have get people aware of the issue know what we're talking about.

05:21 And so

05:23 I'm at with some student leaders not that was before I was involved. Yeah.

05:30 That time it was Tim rarest.

05:34 Who is the SPG president?

05:36 And they said oh well fundraising for gallaudet might be infected. Well, the students might say we need a woman president wouldn't be great to have a woman president the first woman president.

05:49 So we put for the concept of self-determination.

05:55 At ski

06:00 A deaf president would mean we were in charge of our cells and not dependent on hearing people to take care of us that we can assume the leadership role at that time disability law part of that time. It was a rehab Act

06:18 And federal funding was involved then you can assert your rights, but it didn't affect the rest of the world. So I think that was the first face that concept.

06:29 If the Press is the federal government is taking care of it and funding that you have rights, but you had nothing beyond that. So we needed to expand that there were issues women's issues race issues all kinds of issues of empowerment and equal opportunity. They were Crane and self-determination was really key. So when I was talking anyway, how did you get into the picture? What point did you enter the picture for DPN remember during DPM?

06:55 There have been no woman president there been no deaf president women I had been taking.

07:04 Women's right class learning about feminism. I felt I was up and I was a feminist.

07:10 And I thought that was a chance. Why not have a woman?

07:15 But I remember the story of your mother from your mother that hit me.

07:21 And your mother Roswell dr.raj Rose and said if you had two boats.

07:27 You had a hearing vote?

07:31 Know know know if you had a hearing woman's boat and if you had a death mailboat.

07:37 Sailing Boat

07:41 Would you want to jump in the hearing woman's boat or the death of males vote?

07:47 Of course everybody there one to be in the death boat because communication communication with so much more important than gender identity.

07:59 In case of emergency, of course, she want communication. Anyway, all of this is just to say

08:05 That March 1st rally you were a Gala that you were really saying that must absolutely have a deaf president. Now you were wearing your deaf press and guess what I can still fit into that t-shirt. Good. Good good.

08:24 So there was that rally is a very emotional day for us and many felt.

08:34 Gateway met in the cafeteria. We had a story to catch as many students as we could and we thought that a lot of the students really didn't understand the importance of having a deaf president. So then on that first day

08:47 Over at the football field

08:50 We thought we where are the all the people without people becoming but people did come from outside, but there weren't as many students and lunch wasn't over students were still there. And we thought as soon as lunch was over they would fill the stands and they did so we talk to me. It's a great great presentations.

09:09 Some broke down and started crying realizing that.

09:15 They had absorbed in their mind that they could not that deaf people are not able that.

09:23 They didn't have the tools to succeed that somebody would always have to be in charge of me and it was really a shock people felt. So released from that that oppression at that moment. It was very emotional.

09:38 And we wanted to push push push on push back, but

09:43 We thought this had to be peaceful. We had to make sure that our protest was non-violent. We followed the teachings of Gandhi and Martin Luther King. We thought if we did something violent.

09:55 That's what would be mentioned and what we what we wanted mentioned. What would we wanted was self-determination? We wanted to control our own destiny. So the students leaders who they were powerful.

10:08 Because

10:10 They really picked up the message.

10:15 And then we all talked about the tactics.

10:19 And decided it had to be simple.

10:23 Student own the university gallaudet is not there for faculty. It's not there for the staff is not there for the administration Administration exist for the students.

10:34 Students didn't participate in everything would fall down.

10:40 So that was the

10:43 The students had to have ownership and be empowered.

10:49 Gallaudet is design for a higher education for Deaf students.

10:56 I thought at that time when a deaf student couldn't rise the point being President of gallaudet University was unbelievable. It was established by Congress saying that deaf people can succeed equally and have their own institution. So it was very inspiring week.

11:13 I think that all of us.

11:16 All those who have deaf parents we grew up hearing our parents stories and our grandparents stories of Oppression of not giving able to get work of not being able to communicate if not having access.

11:28 I think that's why we felt so strongly.

11:33 About deaf identity feeling strong strengthen Who We Are

11:39 Maybe we'll talk about this later. But I think that as children we didn't they might not have had that opportunity. Maybe we can talk about that later.

11:48 After the protest

11:52 We made sure the world heard gallaudet in 7 years. It was wow. It was amazing.

12:01 And then that led to the Americans with Disabilities Act Escada prior to that Congress had been considering an amendment that had seven they had.

12:15 Delicious, but they had a combinations for women's religious. There was just what we wanted. We didn't want to divide if we wanted to have no discrimination. So we wanted to be able to open door to fight interpreters.

12:30 But really

12:39 It was really Thomas was really struggling.

12:42 And really deaf president now really provided the media and media their own children of the 70s Vietnam protest who saw that who saw our protest. It's just a perfectly clear message a coordinated strong emotional.

13:01 Sometimes strident, but always focused peaceful positive message.

13:09 So the media locked in on that story and Congress to Tazewell.

13:16 There were people campaigning for president that time President Bush was a campaign at that time.

13:24 And made a statement about controlling your own lives and not being Wards of the state not being dependent for for donations. Just needing equal opportunities so that message.

13:40 We should send that message. We shifted from the charity model.

13:44 To one of federal support for full participation and American society, whatever America stand for whatever democracy and equal rights in the Constitution. We all have these equal rights.

14:01 And I think that created a lot of motivation in Congress.

14:07 Do you remember during DPN? We had National media every night. We had a newspaper articles all over the world.

14:15 I really strongly believe that that protest because of the media exposure to the protests that really helped the public to see and say, oh that people can be proud can be happy can be equal and they want the same opportunities as everyone else and I think that that open minds and open my eyes and Congress as well.

14:38 And that helped lead to the discussions about the Ada having that knowledge helped pick up that discussion.

14:48 And people should realize that DPN deaf president now had an impact on the Ada.

14:58 With in the disability community

15:03 There were many important organizations that played a role like adapt another Organization. No doubt without them Ada would never have happened.

15:12 But Justin dark who is kind of known as the father of the disability move-in always wore the gallaudet pin on his lapel until the day I died.

15:28 And if he and NAD pain, he might have had any deep in the National Association that I think they had played a strong role in the protest as well wrote letters communicated Gary Olson Fred Winer.

15:41 Are all important part of this historic story, but Justin Dart War the pain until a date that he died to recognize our rule defense role in opening up the story.

15:55 When you and I who both have deaf parents were born.

15:59 We as perfect deaf babies because of our death parents. We didn't our parents didn't see us as missing something as it having a gap. We were complete.

16:11 Beyond our families in education and employment

16:16 People see being deaf as it's not complete and it's the environment. It's not really our bodies. It's not our ears. It's our ability to communicate.

16:29 And I think that was 88 goal to try to allow us to be in our Natural State as persons with disabilities. We are very much a natural part of The Human Experience.

16:42 If you want to change something change the environment change the attitudes.

16:51 You know, we also were in training long time about ADA. Yeah, we went to different cities. Fall out here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah both Bob Mathers. Yes, and we went a lot of went to 10 cities and I think 10,000 people will be provided train for about ADA.

17:10 And during the Ada training.

17:13 It really hit me.

17:16 That the deaf president now protest in the Ada.

17:20 If you look back.

17:26 Often what happened in history deaf people are training hearing people in here and people are moving up in their jobs.

17:34 And if people are staying at a lower level jobs, we have a glass ceiling right right at the glass ceiling deaf people have a glass ceiling.

17:43 So they but the deaf people have the skills and having training. So after the deaf president now protest the impact was that deaf people all over we're getting promoted. We're getting recognized. We're getting hired and that's why if you have to look at it, I want it. I want it. I want it back because of gallaudet University.

18:12 Shows

18:14 That when you pick a deaf person for the top position there for other people start looking at deaf people as as leaders and they get hired for work.

18:24 And then with the Ada.

18:27 That involved us we were involved in meetings. We were involved people were deaf. People were getting promotions between DPN and 88 is huge impact on the deaf community.

18:38 I have to share something personal you don't mind train something funny about the training.

18:44 And you're fantastic trainer you prepare you're so organized you pass out materials everything. You have a lot of information you explain it clearly.

18:57 We talked about the Ada what it's future is what your rights are. There's a lot going on. A lot of people go through fantastic. You're fantastic trainer, but me, I'm so spontaneous. I stand up and say hey.

19:09 You know, you have a question. Of course you came with a question. Okay. Okay, get it out of your system. What's your question?

19:16 Because most people back then I think probably still today people feel often.

19:23 They need to ask something. They need to ask about our village with Serta rights. They need to ask about getting accessible formats.

19:37 It's there in your natural language of deaf people in different Peoples Natural Angus marriage sign language getting it in text.

19:46 Isn't it's like a you do a multilingual effort. You can print things in Chinese and Spanish and other languages but to see it in sign. It's really important cashing. It is important as well. But to see it and sign is so important and that's what helps push it forward. And and I especially think signing with children is so important. So I just wanted to share that that many parents new parents hearing parents are starting to sign with their babies because they realize that babies can control their muscles in their hands before they can control their vocal cords. So it's very interesting that hearing people are engaged in this signing with babies.

20:28 But still we have doctors that are telling parents of deaf babies not to sign because it slows down their language development of where I can cause problems with interaction better to just speak with them. So it becomes worse. Yeah, that is a huge huge area of concern right now.

20:51 I work in a school setting at school Central Village past 20 years and ever since we worked on the Ada.

21:00 Past 20 years. I've been involved in educational settings.

21:06 And working schools for Deaf children

21:08 And the twin boys that came in and they

21:13 The family spoke Spanish they got they had Cochlear implants.

21:17 I'm at these two boys. They had no language one was they were six? No language. Does it matter if you hopefully implantable cochlear implant, they could not speak Spanish. They could not speak English. They had no American Sign Language. They had no language.

21:34 So that's language deprivation and it's terrible.

21:40 And the reason that it's terrible.

21:44 It's because children need food. They need love then he clothing they need shelter. We all know these children must have that to grow to thrive but deaf children if they don't have access to language Weatherby spoken language or American Sign Language. They don't have any language. They are hungry very angry.

22:05 And what bothers me is sometimes the school system say that.

22:12 The deaf child is not succeeding because they're deaf because they can't hear which is not true.

22:18 It's it's not true for us.

22:21 It's not true for everyone. We know basically and I'll send it says that the system has failed deaf children.

22:29 This is not the problem with the child. The problem is with the system. That's absolutely right. And I think that's key and I think we have to work on that perfect. We only have a couple minutes left, but I want to ask you a question Ada. Its future. What do you see? What what do you see?

22:48 I know this work to do but my question is for you.

22:52 What are you going to see the next 25 years?

22:56 I would think we need to continue.

22:59 Working with employers working with service providers will come with school Personnel making people more aware of the vilatis many people still don't know the Ada itself doesn't have the teeth doesn't have the teeth and we really need more watching over to ensure it's enforced and I think well, I think he's doing good work, but they put a lot of empowerment on the private sector and the Lord does need to be enforced the laws of great. But we need more we need more I'd I do agree with that. Yeah, and I don't know if it helps but maybe Beyond Ada expectations expectations of school Personnel Oliver country. Yeah.

23:41 Because being deaf doesn't mean you can't can't can't be independent and we shouldn't be sending that message to Deb children. I think we strongly need to focus on culture and identity online language on tradition.

23:56 And always have a note be aware of that strong Heritage deaf people have that strong deaf Heritage we have it.

24:04 We have language. We have identity. We have culture we have community and when you get out of that and you don't have it their struggle, so I think there's more recognized recognition of that via the media there more shows. You see more ASL you see more ASL classes you see more access to interpreters and you see it coming together. We have to tie all that.

24:27 With deaf children with deaf Youth and also it's difficult to succeed. I think the issue.

24:35 Relates to sensory orientation

24:40 Been behind spoke about this sensory orientation for hearing people.

24:45 Is sound

24:47 If a person speaking you're instantly paying attention to it, you're sound-based.

24:55 Parents hearing parents are soundbase and they are not aware of what deaf people can do.

25:06 But I think that sensory orientation is different for deaf people. We value different things and hearing quote on quote Able Body people.

25:20 I think like for us we would never change who we are people often ask that cuz you could make you here question and there's always a decline we have so much richness being deaf. We have so much about us. That's just fine. We have our community which we cherish our language are beautiful feeling of value. Do you feel that too? And as long as there is hearing society as long as Humane Society understands and respects that yes and values it. That's the tough part. Okay, well proof. It's been a great conversation.

25:58 I wish you a happy 80 anniversary you two.