Keith Lamar and Amy Gordiejew

Recorded June 20, 2014 Archived June 20, 2014 56:12 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: dde001064

Description

Keith (45) speaks to his friend Amy (39) over the phone about their collaboration on his self-published book "Condemned" about a prison riot he is accused of masterminding. Keith says he is innocent. He is currently on death row in the Ohio State Penitentiary.

Subject Log / Time Code

Amy on being angry about the Lucasville case. She felt like the whole process was unjust based on the evidence.
Keith talks about the perception of prisoners. It's one thing to hear about horrible crimes but there are people in prison with different stories and backgrounds.
Keith talks about how he ended up in prison.
Keith talks about how impoverished people in the criminal justice system often accept plea deals because they cannot afford the money that goes into these cases.
Keith talks about even when inmates are freed, they are often unemployed and cannot get ahead.
Keith and Amy talk about the meaning of freedom.
Keith says that he has been in solitary confinement for 21 years. He talks about how he has coped and his outlook about love and compassion.

Participants

  • Keith Lamar
  • Amy Gordiejew

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service

Transcript

StoryCorps uses Google Cloud Speech-to-Text and Natural Language API to provide machine-generated transcripts. Transcripts have not been checked for accuracy and may contain errors. Learn more about our FAQs through our Help Center or do not hesitate to get in touch with us if you have any questions.

00:00 Ohio Correctional Institution from to accept dialed 0 and hope your call is being connected.

00:20 Hello. Hi. Okay. My name is Amy gordiejew. Have I am 39 years old and today is June 20th. 2014. I'm at the McDonald museum in Youngstown, Ohio and my partner is Keith Lamar who is a friend of mine.

00:40 Okay, Keith 45 years old, Ohio Modesto prisoner and Amy is my friend.

01:00 Okay.

01:02 So Keith, do you want to

01:06 You want me to tell about who you are and then you tell about who I am? Okay. Well, so my husband Paul isn't is a anthropologist at Youngstown State University and he has been studying race and class in the city for a few years now and in the course of his research, he was interviewing with a civil rights attorney and historian names. Inland and through the course of their friendship and relationship of being a good thing to know about statins work. We were invited one day to go blueberry picking with the lens for his wife Alice's 80th birthday. And while we were out that day picking blueberries and they told us about the war.

02:06 That they had been doing with the Lucasville prisoners and

02:12 You know neither Paul nor I had any background with prison work or anything like that. But there were some important things that Paul wanted to look at you know with with what was going on inside of the prisons with regard to race. So one day he visited with Staton another inmate who is one of your friends Keith I'm in so they they had an exchange and and I think at that point I really wasn't interested at the you know about going in or anything like that. In fact, I can remember that day with Alice thinking why would these people be so concerned about inmates that have been accused of some terrible things, you know and

02:59 Stop. My mind wasn't really open. I would say my heart probably wasn't really open either. And then what change for me was that Paul had a really positive experience and and and time our son Daniel who was probably about 6 at the time. I asked Paul if he could draw picture for the man that they took that the he was visiting and

03:28 The the other guy wrote a letter to my son and I think that's really what endeared me to the idea that there's a lot of heart and inside of the prison with people that live there, you know, cuz I saw through this letter how much that little Act of a drawing from a little boy touch this man, you know, so anyway in time he asked us to visit you after he was transferred away, and that's how we met you, you know, so I think at that time you might have written him a letter case and express the urgency of your situation, and he asked us, you know, please check on you cuz it was really concerned since you're on death row that. I think he equated that to me and that maybe you had received an execution date.

04:17 So that's how that started. We we begin to visit express that to me. I think you said he wrote you and I told you about the ruling that have received which movie One Step Closer to execution and seeing you and Paul were here in Youngstown Post in Youngstown leave when they know that y'all could y'all come visit me and you ultimately did and I think it was so that they have to know that we've struck up a friendship exchange football and

05:03 And I think I like her home not too long after that.

05:09 20th anniversary was coming up to Lucasville prison Uprising and I wanted you to help me edit edit the booklet that I had written about my case and that's how you and I really became friends wants to start working on this manuscript largest reshape manuscript condemned. And yeah, I think that's how we met and became friends. Basically just by working on the manuscript after you and Paul came to see me that first time. Yeah. What did you what did you think about endeavoring into that kind of work with somebody who comes from like totally different world than what you've come from. Were you scared of how that would work out or

05:52 You know when you are you always used to do outside is coming in your life telling you how to bless them both to address things. I wasn't, you know, I'm used to the idea of someone coming in and helping you know, the thing. I think that struck me about the help that you was offering that you insisted that I let you know, we made you know, you know that the main voice in my own story, you know, you insisting on that and you know that you know, and you know, it showed a lot of patience and needs being able to tell my story but I think you know, it wasn't anything but

06:40 Rihanna

06:46 Interesting how it unfolded, you know, we never thought that you know, we were actually write the whole write a rewritable rewrite the book. Like I said, I just wanted to ask you a tits and then of course, you know spending all that time together trying to get the story down because you know, as you know, I do remember I'm sure you know, it couldn't just sit right in and send you the book through the mail. I have to write and take the you know what I've written over the phone with you know until I always and I always and I always so, you know her phone calls and would not how you put up with that. I don't know but I get my story down and I think it's been a very important experience in my life. No getting the story down and everything, but you meant to me earlier about you know, you being somewhat hesitant to come in somewhat skeptical about the lens involvement in all this whole situation dealing with prisoners who was accused of any of these horrible crimes them from Lucasville prison uprising.

07:46 And I was just wondering, you know, I don't have no comeback reluctance to get involved. What was the most impactful thing about this whole story because a lot of people everyday Cena look at prisons and prisoners from certain standpoint and you know don't get involved because this preconception about was what so I was just wondering I'm curious and so are the people who listen this be curious to know. How did you overcome bad and you know, if he comes So Into Me involved in this thing,

08:18 So I think I think that by the time we took that that road to to work on your book we had been able to visit you a number of times and you'd been able to call call to the house and we had sort of you know, I think about that kid saying broke breaking broken bread together going to Breaking Bad and I felt like you know by the time I had read what actually was the reason why you were in prison. I sort of felt like I knew a different person then what was portrayed there, you know, and so I had to sort of reconcile what was said about you and who I knew you to be because I didn't know you 20 years ago. I knew you today, you know, and so I think that's where it started for me. You know, I'm by that point you had already met our children. And of course, I I at we asked you you know, what why were you here and everything but by the time I actually read

09:17 What had happened during the 1993 Lucasville prison Uprising, I mean that just it angered me that the case against you had so many flaws in how that was prosecuted and and I started I I can recall this reading hours and hours and hours needing to know and I need to know the truth. You know, how could this be? True this person who funny and dynamic and kind and loving and open how could this be? Somebody who was accused of these terrible things and and if you know, I would find anything there. I guess I have to be prepared for what that would mean, you know and and deal with what does it mean to change in time, you know, cuz I definitely know that who you are today.

10:17 Is a really great human being and now so but I spent hours looking into appeals files and reading things and then when I started reading the documentation that was out there I was so angry, you know, I felt like I wanted to scream some of the things off the top of a mountain that people you know, because it seemed wrong and I know guys in prison a lot of guys in prison claim to be innocent so I understood the skepticism, but I also remember when you ignore read some of the statements and stuff that you know, I remember, you know, you just being you know, looking at those things and remember to what's the thing that I had experienced, you know people, you know, once they read, you know, it's one thing, you know, they are about these horrible crimes against you know that you know, I learned that a person has been through a trial and you would think through

11:17 You know that everything was on the other nothing that this person is guilty and all this time, you know, but I know every time somebody read the statements and leave the evidence and learn that is not as clear-cut as they had anticipated you no sense of shock, but that's the end of it except this thing and just learning about you know, my childhood learning about where I came from and know what I've been through growing up, you know, I was in prison for murder and you know, I was going to shoot out in the guy in the last shot. If you know, you know lost his life, you know, I was shot myself and you know,

12:13 You know, I survived that ordeal in Waseca prison in the person that was shot. Did you know why should we believe you listen to no questions, but you know what, I think once people know delve into it and just realized that I just want you know, you know, just look at the situation in context do people become all over just to listen to the story and what not. But you know that's been really interesting for me just to see your you know, if we move from your eyes as opposed to know someone just you know, you know blindly accepting in my word. No cuz I didn't actually do I just read it. Please just believe in you know, what I'm trying to do then, you know, that's you know, they're not, you know, I accept your support. But yeah, yeah that's been the whole thing, but but it's been more than just my case.

13:13 Integrated into our lives, you know and stuff but I was thinking about that. I think it's pretty normal for people to say or to think you know, why would somebody who has never had an intersection with prison in terms of my family and stuff? Why would I what would in the world would make you go there? You know, but I think the thing for me that really made all the difference is realizing that people are there for a lot of different reasons not everybody who's there just is there because they're such a bad human being sometimes really desperate acts like childhood hunger that sort of thing, you know lead people down a path where they're just trying to do the best. They might be misguided by Amor, you know normative standard, but you know, not everybody is coming at life in the same way, you know, and and it's not just you there's a lot of people

14:13 That and so you know, and I think that's really important when I talk to people I usually try to tell them that you know, like it's not just what you see on TV and it's not just how you see it on, you know, the lock up shows that are in a really popular right now there a lot of really used to always watching those shows. No, she can't believe that she knew everything about prison. Do you know it has never been in prison herself. She used to ask me, you know, you know, you know certain things to you kissing their do you you know, you know cook on the stove and all that you can't

15:13 You don't have any basis in reality whatsoever.

16:05 Hello.

16:07 CC's Global Tel Link, this call is originating from Ohio takes an inmate at Ohio State Penitentiary to accept your call is being connected when we were talking about a minute ago about how there was all this stuff that I was reading. You know, one of the things that was the most shocking to me was the idea of the withholding of exculpatory evidence in your case, you know, and I didn't know what that was. You know, it sounds I think I may have heard it on TV or I think I may have heard it in the Trayvon Martin case or something like that. But the idea that evidence could have been collected during the investigation, you know, like right after the riot.

17:05 That would have pointed to your innocence but that the prosecution did not have to tell you. I chose. Excuse me chose not to tell your lawyers, even though they had the Constitutional obligation to do that that really kind of blew my mind away. You don't just blew my mind. You win the Superbowl in do you win that trophy, you know by winning the game, you know, and that's the same in every other facet and you know, all this Society, you know, it's based on competition you do you get promotions by medications you win that applies to the prosecution as well, you know, even though the prosecutor's job in theory. It's not to win a guilty person but to see that Justice is done everybody who knows anything about the justice system realize that it's really about the case.

18:05 Let you win these cases instant, you know, they are, you know my situation or at the very least this term decided that I didn't deserve to be on death row, you know at the very least put you to thicken high-profile case like this with a penalty was so great. That stand would be a little higher than you know, what was you know established in the Lucasville trials, you know, this stuff is so blatant. They did it was such in the guard that it's just really shocking even to me someone who has been if you know involved in the Criminal Justice System since I was 13 years old and

19:04 Well, you know, I think some of the conversations that I've had with people, you know out on this side of things that you know, some of them are proponents of the death penalty and you know that the conversation that I'm always have is me and you are the question that I have is but you know, if you're going to execute somebody shouldn't they at least have been guilty of the thing you're executing number? I mean, I don't agree with it myself but or you know and shouldn't it be extremely clear and like in your case. There's not even any DNA evidence or forensic evidence or anything that links you to any of what you were accused of so that to me just as such a flaw in our system, you know, I made it open my eyes open my eyes because I guess maybe I tended to believe that by the time somebody had gone to trial that that you know,

20:04 The system ensures that somebody who is innocent is that free and somebody who is guilty is guilty. But you know, it's like two separate system system for the rich in the system for poor people, you know, the majority report people, you know, where they guilty or innocent that, you know, couple pleaded, you know and 98% I believe it's the number of people, you know poor people they caught please where they innocent or not and you know generally cook it cost money to you know, the students came in the cost money for the field notes prosecutor definitely case. We talked about an excess of $2000000. So that's a lot of money and it's you

20:50 You don't really have the weapons to fight to fight for your fight for your life. And you know, you know typically people cop out. You know, what I was offered the deal, you know, nobody told me not responsible for the deaths of five. No one America. I never run the time can come up with the time. I was already doing it, you know, so Sicily, you know, I would have gotten you know, no additional time for these alleged. That's the real lie about this system, you know, you know all this I really about Justice this is about money. Basically if you pour in an economic system based who you know, because you know these prisoners, you know, president knighted states / 2.3 million people in prison and other people in prison,

21:50 Suck my people who are born in poverty people who are in a born at a disadvantage economic disadvantage who are scribes and some kind of way to find a way to the American dream. And so, you know, it's you punishing them for doing the very thing that you you know, there's no food what you believe in? So what about you and your ideals about you? No justice in life and annuity and what. Did you grow up believing in?

22:20 Well, I I think that I was fortunate to have parents who encouraged me to be open-minded, you know, and to judge people myself. I'm not saying I was in shelter. Do you know to some extent cuz I I lived in in Iowa for a big part of my childhood or at least my teenage years. I lived in the Netherlands actually during my first 10 years of life, but they encouraged me to in a judge people based on what the character was that I saw in that person and try not to be dismissive of individuals and my dad's a pastor. So, you know, I had I had a Christian foundation and but but more importantly my parents really lived the you know least of these model, you know, they really were very compassionate people. So I think that definitely shaped my meeting.

23:20 The thing that pricked my spirit about coming and meeting you guys and in a being open to it, even if it was a little bit scary at first, you know, and that sort of thing.

23:35 I got involved in college and some social justice type of stuff and I'll let you know as you know, I'm taking classes at y shoe. But the the American studies program here. It has really allowed me to intersect in this community and Youngstown, you know with people that I might not have. Otherwise Matt who are also like-minded in terms of caring about social justice like United returning citizens is one group and if you know stuff like that really scares me because I think it's you know in alignment with what I believe in, you know that we are not supposed to just turn away when we know people are suffering in our community, you know, it's wrong for things.

24:26 Do you know Alex MS Society Society for the speaking about to return Society can't even get a job before docking about your band The Box, you know, otherwise you will have to tell her that that was to Future employer that you know, you was in prison and so they won't use that against you discriminate against you from job and what not, but it's kind of like hypocritical, you know, you know, I think you know to know you blame somebody for being turn it to climb and then at the same time job know how do I supposed to support myself and my supposed to feed my children put a roof over my head and all these things.

25:26 I have so much to say about you know crime and criminals in the prison population, but it's really no brainer if I don't have to take care of myself, so I don't have a moral dilemma Nick. I'm a poor person with selling marijuana was selling crack know these things and it's also a thing like justice is cut both ways and it's like if we're all in this together then why do you have a problem when someone sticks a gun in your face and you know, you know what I mean, you know, you know that I think it's cool, but you know your mother and you know this group affiliated with

26:26 Trapped inside and try to you know, you know damn some of the destruction of stuff that's going forward, you know under the name of Justice, you know, but I just I just want to know are we going to get beyond the reactionary sites politics and really just trying to do something about the you know, these Injustice disease and balances, you know that exist in a no-bake crime inevitable. You know what I mean? Cuz that's the one of the things that you know, I think you know that you and I working together at one of the things, you know, cuz he wasn't, you know involved in this prison is prison, you know saying you wasn't aware of this no there discrepancies and what an hour now, you know, you thinking about becoming a community organizer Bianca knew you loved and I have to know you know, so that's one of the answers to anything evolution of our friendship that I've been impressed by you know.

27:26 The bringing you in the other, you know lecture hall Circle, you know, it's a different College classrooms and things like that and letting you talk to young people have suffered some of that interested me because I see what it is to an 18 or 19 or 20 year old whose hearing your story for the first time, you know and kind of grappling with what some of their presumptions might have been. I mean, I'm I'm 39 years old, you know, I I want say I was completely clueless cuz I have had some awareness of things for a while, but I hadn't taken the step though two to really Embrace this until fairly recently in my life. So I think seeing you in classrooms like with these younger people is really exciting, you know, and I guess, you know, I don't know that I I don't know that I was thinking it deliberately in the beginning but one time I don't know if you remember that time.

28:26 How the conversation about you were you were saying, you know, you are kind of asked me know where in America is a 44 year old man told what to wear every day. And I think they I think some guard had maybe hassled you because you were a green shirt instead of a blue shirt that day or something and I remember that conversation really, you know, making me think because you said, you know, it's not even what I'm wearing. It's what I'm going to eat. Its how long I'm going to talk on the phone. That's where I'm going to sit on what chair and it was like this idea that every single decision was going to be made for you. And and I think it may have even been when we were early on working on the book and you had said don't change any of my words are my words, you know, and it was naive of me to suggest maybe a better word. You came from a good place I think but I think it was my first time of really thinking about the importance of giving you making you

29:26 Have your own voice like allowing that and MB just being a vessel to bring your voice at like you didn't need me to be your voice. You just needed me to help you type up your words to put them into a book for me. I think that's something that really has stayed with me. Like when we go into these classrooms and you're talking to the students how important it is to try to enable prisoners or people not just prisoners, but you know anybody who's maybe not as able to speak in society to give that person their own, you know, just wedge, you know a place to have their own voice and to speak for themselves, you know all alarms, but if you really listen to it,

30:18 It really telling you not to let you know to take your hands off the wheel, you know, so to speak let us do you know the movie driving music, you know, you will get you to this American dream in Jack, you know, but no life is not a spectator sport. You can't sit in the backseat and you don't think that you're going to live what you want to ride, you know, where you intend to go and see opportunity the privilege of these college students, you know, I was on when I was 13 to talk to them and have them think differently or open a mind to the possibility that they can, you know, pursue a different path will think differently about something that has been injecting into days, you know de way of looking at life and you know that haven't been thinking about that little change, you know me in the process as well. Not even though I'm not just you know

31:18 On this phone. I'm not just speaking, but I'm learning to as well that you know, an important thing is just to open up the dialogue.

32:11 Hello.

32:15 Hello.

32:17 PCS Global Tel Link, this call is originating from an inmate at Ohio State Penitentiary. Your call is being connected. Thank you for using. I just wondered now that now that condemned is written and it's out there and people are Reading and Responding. Does it accomplish what you had hoped it would what you said out. Did you get everything in there that you wanted in there?

32:59 I think so. I know that I believe sprays to know cuz if I didn't notice in the evidence, so I think I know you have to be guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and I think I can least to do that. But you know, I wish you know, I could have you had access to all of the evidence that was propelled and I know you know, you know, I wish you know that people can you know can just you know?

33:54 Beautiful moms fan Point Destin the whole point. I don't know how successful I've been in, you know getting people to see the whole thing from my standpoint, you know, and for my vantage point then I guess, tell you know, it's been there for the most part of being a positive response reception to the book and people seem to be you know, we all started from the revelations, you know, and I'm just hoping that you know, I can get people to take the next step and follow-through like, you know, meet me at do you say no continue to participate in my case except believe in my innocence, you know, but of course, you know, how do you think the pool?

34:45 Well, I am really pleased with it. You know, I'm I'm so proud of you for one, you know, and it was so hard. We got we we we made it through though, you know, but it wasn't just about you though, you know, I learned a lot about myself in the process to and about. I mean, I just learned a lot about

35:15 You know, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and just waiting out the times when it was stressful just waiting, you know, and it would be okay and and just about trust and you know, it was really a I learned a lot about myself about what I'm able to do and what I'm not able to do and so I think so and I I II I've heard really that people kids people can put it down so I know that it it's really good that way but I'm always you know, I think what's interesting about you is how you even learn how to write that blows my mind because I made an even finish High School. Why don't you talk about that? Can you tell about how you learned her? Obviously, I got a hold of this book called Black Boy by Richard Wright getting and not just read it over and over again every day every morning when I wake up before I even get out of bed. I will

36:15 Rental return to move the opening to whatever random page and just read it and soak before I knew what a semicolon was. I knew know how to use it, you know where it went with purpose behind it in this particular book a new word every. Was where every paragraph paragraph get a sense of, you know what he was doing how he was telling story what was important because you know in the in the course of one day specially for people that's on the street. You have a thousand experiencing, go to McDonald's Vine hamburger. You can stop pulled over for speeding you put, you know, you find a dime a dollar on the street you happy birthday to your son or whatever the case may be, but what are the odds of those experiences an important experience?

37:15 Spirit school in Ohio Correctional Institution fighter, you know, I'm I'm fighting for my life. And so to me, it's really, you know, the money I didn't have the makeup for the lawyers. I didn't have to make up for all the things that I didn't have and you know end of the book where you write the ending, you know, I remember when at that point when you dictated that part to me as I can remember saying to you or even to myself like no matter what the outcome is of your situation, you know, if the state carries out their execution of you you've written your freedom into these pages, and I remember I saw that too because to me one way.

38:15 Or the other you set yourself free, you're either going to be set for you because the truth will physically set you free. But if nothing else you are on record, you know, your voice is now able to be heard by the whole world and your truth is written there and documented in and we can't ignore it we can ignore it. But but if we care about the truth, we we can't ignore it. And so this is not just my tooth this just truth, you know, all those gambling casino in society saved by what you believe in. You know, what you tell these stories even like having this opportunity on storycorps and also writing a book or reading a book you understand other people's stories and how much we as human beings have in common.

39:15 Still seemingly, you know how it ends of the world can come together and become friends know. How is that possible? You know, it's because we have these things in comments, you know, all of us want to be loved all of us want to have a sense of connection all of us want to beat her again know when these things are stifled when these things are, you know, I could then they do, you know, I'm happy in the person's life increase West Grayson requested, you know, this no opposition, you know something to push against and then you know, we have to push against know that's Freedom, you know, you know, what about you?

39:58 Freedom for me. I think it is having the opportunity to be who you really are and and to feel safe. So just really express yourself and to be accepted, you know to be accepted even when that goes against the way somebody else might Express his or her sense of self both. I think that to be be comfortable with who you are. You know, who I am I should say and but also to have I don't need many people in my life but a few people who who can see that person and be be happy to commune with that person. How about you what's free at what is freedom look like for you. I mean, I think Freedom was about you know of being accepting of yourself for who you are.

40:58 21 years now you want to stay by myself, you know all these years and a lot of times, you know, because of the crimes for which I've been, you know something to do, you know the ministration and some of the girls here to have you know, I've been somewhat paying off since you know, I've been alone a lot of my life and so it's not a lot of outside of steps. I have a lot of family and friends who support me up talking about but it's being able to retreat to a place where I can just be myself in whether or not anybody else accept me for who I am, you know how to leave and I'm innocent don't believe that I should, you know, continue to live my life with and not that accepting arsenic comes it is really secondary to me. Like you said, you know Freedom me writing this book. You know me. I'm already free now whether not, you know, you know, I'm a one-day new game my physical Freedom. That's a question is. Yes. We still waiting.

41:58 Ohio Correctional Institution physical surroundings choice that we make, you know any place coverage. I think you know what to do with your both of us taking the time to help you. You know, I would have been able to do it had you not done that and so, you know what, you know, even if you know that the help that we can all kiss. Somebody might see Monday in a minuscule we can still do it because it might make a big difference in your life. That's what I'm thinking of I'm thinking you know that the thing Keith is at it really hasn't just been a one-way street. It's not like all my energy was directed to you. I've

42:58 You're really a great teacher to and Anna patient friend and I feel like out of this experience. You know, I I guess I just wanted to let you know thank you for that for the do, you know the generosity to not just to me but to my whole family and it comes back to you. I think that's one of the most important lessons I learned in my life is that you know of you know, it's never wrong to love somebody is never wrong to try to help somebody, you know, if somebody develop their own voice in the covers to believe in themselves, you know, and I just shot

43:41 We lost you.

43:47 Can you call?

43:50 13 years old

43:53 Say that again. We we lost our connection to you.

43:56 Oh, okay. No, I was just saying that you know of No Love is a boomerang and cuts both ways. You know what you put out you get back and I just don't only regret that I have and it's a small one. Basically. I wish I would have had all this love and support.

44:14 When I was 13 years old.

44:18 I was 13 years old and you know what, you know, it's a lot of young people out there, you know, what dress, you know, nothing with no sense of connection no sense of belonging and you know it and I know how much it means special particularly when you young and you know to feel love to feel accepted and so, you know, that's one of the things I hope to be able to do, you know, just know this little thing just try to get books in the face kids hands cuz you know, I always tell you, you know, James Baldwin Richard Wright, you know, Langston Hughes knows he's not just these are my friends know what I don't have anybody's number to strengthen its tail for all those days of thousands and thousands millions of it was nice to use reading his poetry. You know, these guys I will be able to overcome so I can hold on a little longer these guys everything to me and so you don't have enough.

45:16 Yeah, they have them in my life has made everything and I'm hoping to somehow no broker that type of people, you know, just to let you know that it's other people other human beings who have walked this planet, you know and found a way to you. No surviving with pesos and text, you know, and I think that's important. No.

45:46 What do you hope people will learn from from our collaboration from hearing our story today? What what is it that you hope people will take away from it? And also I think the other thing is, you know for those who are for those people who are inspired or you know interested in learning more. What would what cuz they always ask you. What can we do your life is on the line. It's and it's an urgent situation. So what what would you say about that? Are you at and you know, that's the couch say that's a popular saying but it's true and not where you where you are physically, but where are you mentally and spiritually cuz you know, you have a lot of boredom quote 60 seconds on this call.

46:46 Visit those who I'm in prison, you know how compassionate those who you know down and I want, you know to bleach a stain is one thing but the live do another thing, you know you doing that sometimes, you know, some people are lost. I was lost, you know when I just needed some help and you know, you help me and we can do you know, you showing notifications you not even 10 seconds.

48:24 Hello.

48:26 This is Global Telling. This call is originating from an inmate at Ohio State Penitentiary to accept your calls being connected. Thank you for being so well. Something lighthearted. We have about 5 minutes left. I've been told so

48:58 What's been the highlight for you out of all these experiences? You know for people that don't know you've been in New York and in Canada and in California and in Ohio and all over America really talking to people and we've done different events and tried to you know, just trying to raise awareness of what your situation is and I just wondered what what your highlight are your most fun. Memory has been at this past year of being you know, so hard at work.

49:28 Do you know doing all the talks and everything all of those things but you know my surpass my expectations and you know, you know, you know, no talking to college students, you know, criminal justice students. I'm sociology students in second. I could scream, no consensus the galaxy in the blow some of those people's minds. Do, you know the outpouring of love and acceptance that I've received from, you know, so many people when you know, you'll completely booked and, you know having a birthday party at CSU people singing Happy Birthday to me and would not happen, you know, it's just been a great fall.

50:28 Why didn't you know cuz you know, some people say that I shouldn't like a book and I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't do that and no just follow my heart and really receiving the information that I did the right thing by doing that and that's been the most amazing thing in the good thing is that it hasn't stopped in this program, you know, it was really special to be able to be at your aunt's funeral and answering you there that mean that really touched my heart and the fact that we didn't really know if the technology would hold up, you know, and and it did and it was it was so important to your family, you know, and that really touched my heart that you are able to give her eulogy. I love that and just that I

51:28 Felt really blessed that I got to even bear witness to that. You know, and I think also the impact of you returning to Cleveland at that event at Cleveland State University was really awesome for me. I felt like I was like on a cloud, you know afterward it was too so great and and just seeing the faces of your cousins and your friends and your niece and your nephew and just seeing the tears in their eyes, you know, and the connection just just all that love was really amazing to me that that was really awesome. So I guess so that was I think that's for me probably one of the highlights of another another highlight, which is just really unrelated to your story but it isn't it is related is just the fun that we have with the kids visiting you it's it's just great. You know, we always leave you know.

52:28 Cats with laughter and and just sort of you know it like it's almost like we escape to another place for those few hours, you know, I love that. So it's not just got to meet one of my dearest friends Laurie Swaim in person. So that's a plus one of the greatest highlights and of my this past year in Oakland able to sit down and held her hand and everything and yeah. Yeah, it's just know it's just amazing. Once you open your heart up to something open your mind after something how many blessings can flow in just one of the things I just want to encourage people to do is just to keep your heart right? Because funny things outside to do all this year's my like you just mentioned passed away recently Just Keep Your Heart Right KC and you know good things that happened to you. And so, you know, that's one of the you know that your sister are going to get out of people just keep doing

53:28 May be recorded or monitored and the thing the thing I wanted just to clarify, you know something I said and that is not that you physically went to all these places but that we were able to just bring you their via phone and speaker phone and just the fact that the technology could carry you to all these places. You know, I like you are right. You're not leaving yet. I don't have the keys. I wish I did but that would be so nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah a me a close up that you know, I feel really blessed to have you ever have you as a friend and you know that have no access to your dimension in this weather has to be in your kid's life and be a part of your husband's lie to you. I feel like the other part of my family no secular my family, you know.

54:28 I really love you and I appreciate it. Thanks. I love you too. And you know our story is not done and there's a lot of money that's coming up yet. And I think it's important to say that your website ww.w. Keith Lamar. Org contains information. And and we await the oral argument, you know, we don't know the date yet, but we are hopeful and I hope I have big hopes Keith. You know, you you always say the Kahlil Gibran saying right do what your assigned and you can either help me too much nor there too much and yeah it but then I did but that's you know, I'm home.

55:28 I'm really really big for you and I always get names wrong. So anyway the idea that the idea of just stay in that course in and we can believe big things can happen because you know who knew that all this would have been possible even you know, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, yeah. Okay. Thank you. I love you. I love you, too.