Larry Saddler and Tsanonda Edwards

Recorded June 29, 2019 Archived June 29, 2019 42:36 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: dde001584


Tsanonda Edwards (40) talks with his friend Larry Saddler (40) about his early life and the mentors and relationships that have nurtured his sense of purpose, connection, and wellness. They share about their work together in mentoring youth, and dispelling stigmas around mental health, particularly for young Black men.

Subject Log / Time Code

Larry Saddler and Tsanonda Edwards talk about meeting at Morgan State University.
LS and TE talk about growing up with mentors, and TE talks about his religious upbringing, high school experiences, being kicked out of his home, and choosing to go to college.
LS talks about their work together in the Kuumba program at Morgan State University to mentor young people in responsibility, academics, and social life on a college campus.
TE talks about some of his mentors and their impact in his life.
TE talks about LS's friendship and brotherhood.
TE talks about generalizations and limited perceptions of Baltimore, and realities of resilience and strength in the young people and communities of the city.
LS and TE talk about legacy, and breaking stigmas around depression, healing, and mental health.


  • Larry Saddler
  • Tsanonda Edwards

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service



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00:03 I am tsanonda Edwards 40 years old. Today's date is June 29th, 2019 a we're here in Baltimore, Maryland. I'm sitting here with my my my homie my brother my partner. Oh my God, man, Larry Saddler one of my best friends from college until now.

00:27 Hello, I am Larry Saddler age 40 from today's date is June 29th. 2019 on we are in Baltimore Maryland. I am interviewing with tsanonda Edwards one of my closest friends and brother that I respect deeply and and value very dearly. Definitely one of the most influential man that I meant that I have met us in the past 20 years. So good it be doing this with your brother preciate it.

01:05 So

01:06 What that said? I guess I wanted to like kind of.

01:11 I guess I'm packing and reflect on you know, how did we first meet? What was it? Like, you know being college students at more again. Let's go back then, reflecting. What was your first impression of me with my first impression of you? I can just jump off and stop talking about that all I remember if we were in English class. I think it was Dr. Baton lots of pain and I'm sitting in there and I just heard these college girls yelling this names.

01:51 Why he walked into the classroom and I was the news new student that you know, it's not my first time in college, but definitely my first time being an English class at Morgan. I don't know who is this guy that has the young ladies just calling his name as he walks into the classroom in America member feeling like

02:15 Hope you know what was so special about that guy, but it was just like

02:22 Listen to you talk watching how the cottage of the Morgan students just gravitated towards you, you know.

02:34 At that time was impressive.

02:38 But I really didn't know how to I guess give you your props for that until I got a chance to really meet you. And I remember we would you know in the same class together trying to make it out of the day English class, but I needed a job. So I went over to the office of community service and I saw you over there and I think that was when I really got a chance to see how you know good of a guy you were you know, articulate smart definitely cared about the day the young people that were coming through Morgan that the high school and middle middle school student that will come into Morgan try to get some kind of academic enrichment and you kind of gave me an opportunity to be a part of that. You know, that's what I remember. You know, I have had experience working with children before working at various summer camps, but that was

03:38 My first time I'm going to college and trying to find a job working with a middle school age students. And you kind of was the first brother that gave me an opportunity to do that and I got a chance to see your personality. I got a chance to like work with you and see how you were impactful and I only the the middle school students but also like the college students that you work with, you know, how much respect they have for you and then I kind of got a chance to see okay. This is why I wherever he goes. Someone is like kind of doing a roll call when they see how me know cuz this love and respect, you know, so yeah, I remember when you remember you asked been in the English class.

04:31 And I remember you kind of sitting off to the side and we were in our major at that time. So when you get to that made you start saying the same faces over and over and over again, and I remember this new face in the in the class and I was like, okay brother little brother coming in and I remember just kind of

04:50 Sandwich shop in keeping it regular but then when I saw you over in the office of community service ready to get a job. It was like okay. I remember this guy from English Let Me Go Wrap to him and then kind of see if he's interested in and getting on with the Cotton Bowl program on one thing that I tend to I guess pride myself on and kind of sense in people's energy and I saw that you were kind of quiet you what kind of reserved I saw how you were very methodical with everything whether it was the work you were doing or whether you no answering questions. You were kind of keeping things low-key, but you were very methodical. So like I said, I'm big all just kind of sensing energy and then when I saw you coming over to work with the young people in a coma program you interested in it I said, okay, that's why I said if you just got to get to know this guy kind of see if he if he will be a good fit and showing up that's what happened on this time. We know what kind of learning so I think you transferred in from Hampton think it wouldn't happen that you transferred and I knew that you were coming on as an English major you already had work with you for me.

05:50 Put some kids like The Superkids Reading specialist and I need that you can add something to the program. I'm that would be substantial and then that's what we're kind of looking for people who were going to be committed to it and that type of thing. So is it from there? I think it was an easy for us to try to get along man. We live on the same side of town. So it was like, oh you need a ride home and I go drop you off and no problem working together met your family and you met mine and we just kind of really got cool that way and then. If they are friends with all the kind of commingling and things of that nature, but I think you've been in that English program in and coming over to 2 colomba. It was it was easy to kind of just for us to kind of get along and it's kind of bright. College career Bryant definitely Kindred Spirits kind of coming together. It's funny. I remember telling my father late is the first time I met someone and we became such fast friend that could happen.

06:49 Really quickly and then now remember come to find out our fathers were friends friends. That's interesting.

07:07 I guess the next thing I was I guess I wanted to ask you is what was it like for you?

07:15 Growing up in Baltimore, you know going high school in Baltimore going to college and attending grad school and who were the people that motivated you that inspire you to keep focused on your goals. And even those with that Mentor you do some of those tough times and that's a lot so we can start with like what was the the the the the the schooling process? Like I'm used to get you to where you are. Now, if you don't mind kind of start with that absolutely, so just give you a little bit of background of school and things of that nature. I actually had a pretty interesting School experience and honestly, that's honestly what impacted are the person the person who I was at that time the person I am today and the work that I do I lived in the home. That was very extremely religious and extremely religious home.

08:14 Former Jehovah's Witness. So growing up was one of Jehovah's Witnesses was it was difficult for me at first everything was it was what it was, you know, you kind of grow up into things are born into things and you kind of continue with the bananas are kind of questioning things. So at a time when I was probably in high school, I say I went to the the best high school on a planet Baltimore City College in Baltimore, but of course, I have a biased opinion, but when I went there, I might start a meeting people who had who started to have a strong impact on me and very positive way from what I saw it was confusing because growing up is going to Jehovah's Witnesses really taught not to mingle with those who are not in their religion. So I'm at school and I mean these guys especially with three of my other best friends James, Mike and Brandon.

09:07 And I'm saying that these guys are really nice there turn into like sharing their families and that I wasn't supposed to be kind of mixing with these with the word with these with people who were outside of their mind. So going through that process was interesting to get to be very candid and led to what I thought at that time and what I'm going to say what I didn't know at that time, but I found out later to be states of depression where I was trying to kind of come out and didn't have an understanding of why is it that there are these people in school seem to be great folks, but I'm not supposed to an end. You had any kind of connection to these men in any of that move on to about my senior year of high school and all of those those feelings of confusion. No feelings of Doubt on those feelings of frustration, those feelings of anger kind of Spilled Out mom and I had a disagreement and she eventually kick me out.

10:07 So I actually finished high school and she graduated high school homeless in Baltimore city. Are you considered homeless when your what's called Couchsurfing? They're going from couch to couch one day. You might stay at the next day. You might stay at your best friend's house and next day. You might stay at the girlfriend's house and in Baltimore City, you're considered homeless because you don't have a solid address. So I was kicked out in February of my senior year. I graduated high school and actually it's funny and kind of lens to it kind of goes into that transition to college. I'm at one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm not supposed to go to college. I miss my those things where the religion tends to look at it as you're not focused on on on Jehovah God but instead you're kind of focused on materialism and your focus on different things in the outside influences that could docket Mexicana take hold of you I negative so you're kind of taught not to go to college. So when my mom kicked me out in that February one of the requirements for graduating from city is to apply.

11:07 I to college, so I'm coming in like a defiant phase like yeah, you know kind of upset with Mom that relationship isn't going well. So but then again I had to I had to apply to college got accepted to Morgan home. And that's God I guess you could say the rest is history on it was it was a rough transition, but I was accepted into the school had decent grades had a great SAT score and kind of started my college career outside of the influence of my mom, but that kind of open me up. That's why I was pretty like I was one of those guys who people generally 10:10 to tell you not to describe yourself as nice, but I always believed in my nice guy. I want to be a genuinely nice guy kind of held me back from that because I was supposed to keep myself apart from people. So College was my opportunity to be a genuinely nice guy kind of find out more about myself.

12:07 Mr. Myself, so that's why I kind of came in and befriended people inside to bring positive energy and it was literally the best I had felt in years. I was literally coming out of that depressive State not to mention the fact that I did have my father around anymore because he committed suicide when I was 12 years old, right so you do for me, but again, I'm in college and I'm learning to kind of deal with all these feelings. I'm talking with people. I'm able to open up an express myself a lot more and were able to like you said kind of finals Kindred Spirits were able to lift us Ryan what kind of glean inside from each other? I actually started out partying a little too hard and got kicked out of my goddamn with Americorps. I'm kind of where I kind of found my passion working with young people. They were able to America was able to give me money for college and they were able to actually pay me like a stipend but there is a older man.

13:07 Because that's where I found my passion and working with young people that kind of brought me back to Cumbre with us working together with young people and literally changing the dynamic of Kumba during that time. I think I remember us going from bike 40 students and then doubling that number to almost one up bike riding with like 90 students right because of the work we were putting it in there. We were doing such great work from the parents at the time, you know, being out early twenties, you know, we just make we're doing a good thing but not really understanding that we're doing a

13:43 Powerful thing is it and the impact that we are having I only on the community and in the yellow people that were working working with but also let the parents we just be like, thank you. Thank you so much for what you for the impact you had an out showed absolutely with some children necklace from some what I told you but but participants that come to my house right now just say their names right there in my mind right now. It looks like all the time because sister also in separate also like it that impact you don't have an immense what I want to get into that too. I'm asked you about what mentors that you have, you know, cuz you know, we we were asked if you like helping them academically

14:43 You know boy what social limit for entering that we were so high school, you know what it could be like, you know, this is the next stage and you're learning Evolution, you know, to know Morgan State University in Bossier to when you don't think about all the info that don't have that exposed exactly and block to go and have interactions positive interaction College dude. That's what I was going to say and then to do it on a college campus that makes it even more powerful. I only are they around those positive male and female and influences but to do that on a college campus and to go from building to building cuz at that time we were using different classrooms.

15:43 Do the different thing they were literally traveling on a college campus and that's huge for Endo. 444 young. So, yeah, I completely agree with some young people like you were saying like the depression that you went through when you were in high school. So, you know, how did the challenges of being a Jehovah's Witness and wanted to open up but you know being I guess, you know kind of nurtured not to do those kinds of things that are know you were saying how you went to that the oppression what aside from having my colleagues and peers, you know, give you love and friendship. What a dolt came in your life that kind of share this Mint tours to kind of help you through those tough times or take an interest in you or motivate you make you kind of late. This is what

16:43 Want to deal with my life, you know there any mentors that you may have had when you were in high school that immediately come to mind. The first I'm going to have to say is Lamarr Darnell Shields. He is I'm doing great things now. I can't be over just doing amazing things internationally literally, but I remember him being my Spanish teacher and high school just taking an interest and you know, me and my friends and also it was one of the first he was one of the first black male teachers that I had ever really seen and

17:27 He was also one of the first young black male teachers. I had a few other things but they were older like really old and talked to literally tore retirement age. But to see a young black male teacher on me went to Grambling. He just came in with so much energy. I mean to the point where literally a lot of teachers disliked him and I mean when I say literally I mean they would look they would literally talk to the other students about disliking this man, but a lot of it was because so many of the students gravitated toward him and I remember he asked me to to perform in a play that he had had a poem that he wanted to live his life for him and initially again being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I wasn't allowed to play sports. I wasn't allowed to join Club. I was allowed to do any of that perform the play during school hours if you don't want to go against your mom,

18:27 That's all what I can do is I can give you the poem. Maybe it's okay. You can practice it at home and then you can perform it during school hours. So to see someone interested in me interested in my talent and also he wasn't, you know, just throwing mom under the bus like your mom feels what way but he was supportive of her and her efforts either way doesn't have respect. That's it was absolutely I'm so I was able to perform the play that type of thing but now that relationship has grown and continue throughout high school and it is grown now so I'm actually a consultant of his and doing work with him because again, he he believed in me. He saw something in me and you saw something in myself again in my friends who really just it was one of those things where when you have again that young black male in the classroom and you see him on the regular basis and he's respectful of you and your family is respectful of you and your friends, but he also pushes to hold you accountable.

19:27 And to make sure that you are

19:30 Exceeding your own expectations. I can say that you're not just kind of touching the ceiling but you're pushing yourself through what I'm holding us to you know, how would you know, not just an expectation but pushing ourselves and we got our own expectations with a really big deal. Now, that's the first Mentor II Men tour I would have to say is a l Wiley Wiley is my another one of my best friends Brandon Wiley father and when I was, you know, kind of kicked out of home senior year, he allow me to stay with him consistently I even when I was kind of living with my sister living, you know from you again comes on the couch surfing then he allowed me to stay there with Brandon, He kind of put a regiment place where we had to come to your school work. We had to make sure that we were working working at times and just kind of make sure that we were on point with that but one of the things I remember again with regard to my mom is I remember you been kicked out in February. Here it is.

20:30 Is be graduated in June and its we get our tickets for the graduation. I want to say may late May early June and

20:41 He asked me you know, what is your mom coming to your graduation? And I remember being angry and saying like of course not like no, don't you kick me out's no way. She's coming to my graduation and he said I don't want you to make a decision that you're going to regret wants, you know, you kind of calm down and your anger has subsided. So I'm going to suggest strongly suggest that you take your mom try to take it to your graduate as guidance importance of times those tough emotional times, you know, because our emotions can be so powerful and impact our decisions and you don't want to make some decisions. We can't undo them has been done since you know, so that's what's up man. You say guidance in like he wanted you to be a productive young man, you know amazing that you had those kind of Rome.

21:41 Closing your life because it seemed like you had big brothers and Dad. That's even though you may not have had the biological father on at that time. But the men in the community that kind of came around and helped you and you needed to help the most massive. You know, what I do want to say one thing about that because you do make a great point, but I also kind of want to I have to also, I extend that hand of gratitude toward real talk like guys like you man, you have older men who like you said, I able to serve as big brothers and were able to serve as father figures for you and kind of do you say guide you along your way but having friends like you man, like I said, you might Branden and James man, you guys taught me things again that I would never have known, you know, kinda coming out as being and that sheltered environment when you had that doesn't like you guys told me how to wash clothes because

22:41 I'll never forget you telling me so now I was always that guy again high-energy always wanted people to smile when I came into the room and get excited. And and that was again like you said that was a fairly impressive to you. But at the same time you kind of told me like, you know someone to sometimes like not so, you know clouds a personality like I'm not trying to put a damper on who you are, but you told me that you know, sometimes it's important to also be able to be objective if I don't always be subjective because when you're in the middle and your you know, pulling the attention and you're the hot energy guy you miss some of the small things that are going on and that's something you taught me. Right? And then again, I appreciate my peers literally. My life is my brother's who who grew me up. You guys taught me so much, and it helped me to kind of understand that

23:32 It's okay to be myself and it's okay to have a past but no don't dwell on it. Like last let's grow let's heal and you guys were there for me to vent and talk about that with you with that also there to help me grow and that was a huge part of life for me and I appreciate it good to no man is good to know that the things of a past winning me a good cuz I didn't know how I was using if it was just me, you know, but it's good to sometimes be able to impart like that wisdom sent to somebody else and they can actually grow from it. Absolutely. No, cuz everyone we are that we are all different. We all move our own way and we gravitate toward different things, you know, but, you know to be able to have an impact on someone's life, you know, that's good. That's good to know man. Thanks for the appreciate it man. Thank you.

24:27 The next I guess question I wanted to ask you.

24:31 Let me know you graduated from Baltimore City College.

24:38 Graduated from Morgan State University

24:42 Went on to University of Baltimore.

24:49 What piece of Baltimore story?

24:54 Does not being recognized or appreciated?

24:58 Buy the world or by the media or other states are you know people outside of Baltimore listen to to the new you have all the the murders that take place in Baltimore how dangerous Baltimore City can be

25:21 The old world culture Baltimore what piece of Baltimore story that you think is not being recognized by The Outsiders? What what what is what is that? You think should be appreciated about the Colts are Baltimore City? Okay. So the first thing that comes to mind when you talk about things that people don't know about Baltimore and its culture the first word that immediately comes to mind is resilience. Like I just think about the strength of the individuals and communities on here and Baltimore just like you said, you said it on the wire now, that's the first thing that kind of comes to mind. I remember taking a trip action took a group of young people.

26:08 Parents and they were X rays up top 10 prettiest to New Orleans. We took a group of the following Katrina following Hurricane Katrina, man, and I remember us being there with building these houses and there was like a youth detention center that was working with us. Remember we were kind of looking because and you correct me if I'm wrong either buy their clothes. I knew that they were from like a youth detention center. They were being literally detained for prom people like, you know, like we would like the adults of all young people, you know, they are on the same age of the

27:02 Who are you are you guys doing it as you work with people you begin to have conversations like, you know, and remember the conversation we were cuz I remember our young people because our young people we're kind of looking at them. Like wait a minute. How should we feel and then at the same time they found out we were from Baltimore and so they are looking at us like wait a minute y'all info from the wire from Baltimore to see what they fear but there was interest that was curiosity and there was this like really like the hell Baltimore is and we had to be honest like a Baltimore has its share of crime has its share of, you know, violence and things of that nature, but the reality is there are plenty of cities throughout the country that I have the same thing. But again, the light isn't shed on the positive that are going on in the city, so

28:02 Again, like Brazilian. I just think about the resilience. I also think about and that's why I should think about times and moments and Baltimore's history. I was actually working at William pinderhughes Elementary Middle School as a community school coordinator there take care of the needs of the school as much as possible. And I remember that was during the time of the Freddie gray Uprising and during that time. I remember, you know, the CNN's of the world and everybody coming in and it's just like wow Baltimore. Look at this Riot. They were calling it the one that just spins when the reality of the matter and I'm going to be very honest with you. I was literally in the middle of it all I left William pinderhughes. I went up to Mondawmin where they said everything was I was there and that young people were upset. They were angry about things that we're going on. But I remember there were a host of young people like a lot of them is ready to go home. Like, how can I get home? I just want to know how I can go home. They stopped the buses.

29:02 That nature the picture that was painted was all young people are, you know writing when really was like no was an uprising there earlier group of young people who are upset that other young people who want to just go home go home. Go home Noemi black children are masterful at finding some of the other hurts and disappointments and the frustrations and our lives and finding ways to turn them into greatness finding ways to turn them into impact old stories behind them into impactful situations, right on the organizations that have come out of those things before God's like I said the uprising and the people who I learn to have more of a voice. It's absolutely powerful. So if anything I want people to know,

29:54 Around the country is again the resilience of all about up of Baltimore the strength of Baltimore determination of Baltimore. And there are we are literally just two brothers, you know, black men college graduate, right? But we are two of many there are so many men and women doing amazing things in Baltimore, but they don't always get what they deserve you. You know what I mean? Like some of the other things kind of put a damper on it. That's why I'm happy that we get the half, discussions like this because it does shed light on some of the greatness that Baltimore are provides consistently, right? So what gives your spirit hope for the future Baltimore, you know, what is your vision in Baltimore in in in in sure what nourishes you

30:48 Wow.

30:51 That's a loaded question and I'm saying load it because it's levels to it. You know what I mean?

31:03 Again, come out of high school and college and having gentleman like you.

31:09 To listen and sharpen me because it's not just vent sessions. It's you know, what's going on. I think this is best for you to kind of look at things this way. It would be better or maybe try this obviously sharpened each other. So those types of things I always talked about having a strong support system in a support system means building with Brothers like you got a major part of my support system. Is this my wife having

31:38 An amazing wife and children a family. It's something you don't even like it's something that people generally take for granted. I took it for granted a little while again because I don't have such a strong relationship with my family, but they married having a strong relationship with my family is important because I get those times when I have to guess I'm going to jump into the communion there a lot of things that I do forgot to mental health, especially I'm in assisting people to get stronger to heal but there are times when I need healing I need healing as well. So I turned to my children are turned on my wife for that healing in my extended family and friends and family that fits big man you need that type of stuff. They can having a support system and I didn't understand the power of people until you made me look at it. And you said sananda. You said something to me in a minute. I have a horrible memory, but I remember a lot of stuff you in part of me brother you said Sonora?

32:38 Your people Rich. I just could not even know what that means. I feel broke broke right thing people which means you have people that you can depend on is not only do, you know a lot of people but because you've poured into people people will pour into you and I'm and that was that was huge for me cuz I didn't I didn't even know that's what I was doing at the time right now in no that that's what I was doing at the time like being nice to people. That's what it get to me like that. Like that's what it gets you when you're nice, but you're not just nice and that's another thing I learned was no help with the man. I was your brother giving you. Do, you know the observed like how much you would give and I

33:37 This

33:40 It told me that.

33:44 The power in being a giver and I was just watching that you know, because you don't give to receive but when you give freely people will get back to you. People army, man. Let me know. What's interesting about that and it's all fine that you that you say that again you talk about being people Rich. That's also a balance that comes with that when I was in high school and breaking out of that that shell of myself into college my friend might talk to Papa Branch Pike and James Microtel me. I would do things like, you know less I had $20 I will take that $20 you can have it.

34:44 You got it. You got to be bounce with it. You got to bounce with it. So that was always a huge thing just being bounced.

34:52 July the stuff. I guess I could wrap it up with if you can leave something behind.

35:02 For the Next Generation to pick up and then develop it and build on what you started. You know, I'm over the Legacy or what Lasting Impressions. Would you like to leave on the community or on the culture? All of young adults, but one of those Impressions those memories, how would you want them to remember you how would you like for them to to view you, you know in their mind if they going to talk about those characteristics, you know of a Misty Edwards, you know that that that really inspire, you know, what would they be in flower again battling with

35:46 Depression and dealing with that dealing with my my my dad suicide when I was 12 years old.

35:54 It really push me to be a mental health Advocate be perfectly honest and that's what the cross is. Now. It's about mental health advocacy so I can leave any Legacy it would be centered around mental health. It will be primarily centered around as a something. Honestly. I got from therapy after I was diagnosed with depression.

36:18 Having a voice having a voice is one of the most powerful things you can have. It's what my therapist told me. She said so often people are depressed because they don't feel like they have a voice and that's one of the reasons why I became and I are there right after it's one of the reasons. I I want to I can become a mental health Advocate is helping, you know, pushing to help the stigma help break the stigma around mental health for young people on the reason why I have an organization for young people is because I kind of created something that I wanted. What would I want when I was my age? Who would I want to turn to but I started trying to you know, gather those people to do that then now I also want to make sure that black men know that it's okay to have a voice speak up too often become to one another about the negative things. We doing we talked about our coping mechanisms. We talked about drinking.

37:18 We talked about all those things that are negative these kind of been coping mechanism instead of working to heal one another and again, you guys were my blueprint for that. You gave me men who I could talk to pour into like a vent tube and you guys did what you could to build me up if I had any Legacy, you know what I mean? It would be about you and you want to give that that's it to the the Next Generation. Nobody fool. You can talk soon that can kind of service like a signpost when you traveling down the highway of life. Where am I going to that sign?

37:56 Get off right here. If you have a voice telling your narrative telling your story is so vitally important. I'm being able to end-user and using your voice for positive for the ugly further to make sure that to ensure that positivity is what comes from it. That's I think that that's probably the biggest Legacy. I want to leave behind. I'm like I said with men especially its

38:25 People would rather have brain aneurysms.

38:29 10 and heart attacks instead of talking about things so have a voice. What do you think?

38:39 Could help break down that stigma, you know in and get that Dialogue on when people feel they can talk openly about this cuz you know, it's still like hard for people to talk about especially men about to say lightning. I hurt. I know I'm suffering. I need help. You know, what do you think could help break down that in your experience that you don't say? I don't want it in your experience would help you break down the stigma of tournament 3 asses and a t it was start with self-care we have to find ways to take care of ourselves and what that means is getting into with what I called and downs of me and that English that motivate English degree coming out right the nouns of the people places and things that help us the kind of feel better about ourselves. Make sure you're around positive people make sure that you are

39:36 You're you're you're you're being around those you're getting in touch with those things could be a book. Make sure you're in those places that make you feel bad about yourself. It might be the beach might be a park. But again getting in touch with the nouns of you will help with will help that will definitely help with kind of easing your mental load on that. The first asked the second S. I would say it again that support systems building up a strong support system making sure that you understand that not all relationships are good relationship. You have to be able to identify kind of toxic relationship. The reality is even in your family. You have toxic relationship. Like I said, my mom and I we have a much better relationship now, but I also know that I had to take Mom and doses. So if you need to go to the hospital, I'm always there for her and make sure she is she is she and when she's healthy as he's feeling good. I have to connoisseur to take leave so self-care is it is really big. I'm having a support system is really really big.

40:34 I would also say spirituality for those who are interested in it, That's the third a spirituality piece. I did not have a great spiritual experience growing up. But I'm still a Christian. I'm a God-fearing man. So I'm being able to speak with my pastor Pastor Paul Grant and to have him around to assist me with my spirituality is big and the last one which I think is the most important option. Is there repeat so often again at 3 at Cincinnati for the therapy is very very important. So often people go to doctors and if they don't kind of like what the doctor is saying, they'll go to another doctor or find a specialist that can help them in that area. But often times people don't want to go to counseling or if they've gone to counseling once they'll say what the counseling it didn't work for me. I'm like, so it works just like any doctor maybe that Council didn't work for you or I actually have a Christian woman count.

41:34 Economy McCoy's you think one of the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. She works for me there some gentleman. Why do they need a man counselor male counselor? There's one person who are her has a therapist who walks through the park because like that's where they kind of heal themselves best butt therapy is that this is that last tr3s identity but seek therapy and seek definitely what works for you. No question. I agree man like that free therapy to help break down that stigma education is so important man. I think that's what we're doing right now talking about it and also have to be around positive people support as he was just I mean people who really care about your betterment man song. I think those like what you just sent him. Those are great ways to kind of

42:22 Wash away that stigma surrounding this taboo, if you know mental mental health always Pleasant.