Jezz Chung and Franke Rodriguez

00:09 Hi, I'm just Chung. I am 28 years old. Today is fry Friday, September 6th. We are in Los Angeles, California at the JW Marriott LA Live at the adcolor conference and

00:27 I am with.

00:30 Franke Rodriguez, my name is Frankie. I am 40 years old. I was about to say 39, but I am officially 40 this summer 40 years old. Today is September 6th 2019, and we are here at the JD JW Marriott in Los Angeles for the adcolor conference and I'm here with my colleague and co-worker and friend. Jezz Chung.

00:54 Wheat? All right, so

00:58 Breaking. I've known you we have known each other for maybe a year-and-a-half now that's when I started working at anomaly and for anyone is listening who doesn't know what an anomaly is and only is a creative branding advertising agency with how many offices now 7 offices worldwide and I remember meeting you maybe or seeing you for the first time at one of her all agency company-wide meetings. And I thought who is this guy? Who's wearing Jordans who has tattoos like all over his sleeves. He seems hella cool. He's chill like I made the right choice coming here if that's what I remember. I remember it's funny cuz I remember so you started a year-and-a-half ago. I came back to New York about two-and-a-half years ago. So I probably was in the role as CEO for about a year at that point and you know, it's funny cuz we do these all agency meetings probably about once a

01:58 Don't forget 300 people into our bar in the office and you get on stage and it doesn't matter how many times I do it how many times I stand up in front of the whole company or standing in front of a room of people stand in front of the clients. I still always get a little bit nervous because you know, I feel the way we talk about it is it's a it's a huge on it right to sort of be on any platform where you're communicating and you don't have an impact or influence over a big people. So it's kind of funny that that's the first moment. You know, you remember for me where I remember the first time I met you which is funny cuz we don't actually me for the first time. I really noticed you was on social media Savage as you know started at anomaly and you know, you're very active obviously on Instagram and on social and you know, Jenny Webb obviously managers are not on the account. I have access to the anomaly count. She started following you so then I started following you and I think it's when you went on your trip to Puerto Rico Puerto Rican, so I'm like look at this.

02:57 Can a woman who works at the agency? And obviously, I didn't know you personally yet, but I knew a little bit about your background cuz you share and I'm like, this is really cool. She's in like Puerto Rico. This is like this is my hometown and thank you in Old San Juan and I don't remember but I hit you up when I'm like hey, yes, and I'm and I just started following you from there and just being impressed with you know, the sort of stuff that you put out there in the things that you were talking about on your willingness to, to share. So yeah, that's what I remember you like something that we both align on and probably why we get along we have a lot of similar views is that we've both value authenticity in a way that isn't always valued in the industry that were in because an advertising and a median in and taking these filled it's all about, you know, how to get ahead or in a mold yourself to I don't know change in whatever ways and and

03:57 The leader is is Define kind of in these narrow boxes, but that's why I meant so much to see you as a leader and then it kind of expanded my possibilities of what leadership looks like one other agency. So I started at my first my first agency job. I was there for four years to this has been my second agency that I've been wasting. My number here and I just thought like when I got here to five. This is It's So when they talk about authentic representation, it's one thing as a buzzword right when you see it in action. You see the impact that you as Frankie Rodriguez have on the people of anomaly because just in the way that you show up in the way that you talk in the way that you dressed and the way that you communicate with people and in your attitude and all of these things because you maintain that level of authenticity, I think it runs through every vein in the company. Thank you. That's incredible to you. I appreciate that way. I think that's exactly right. I go that something that

04:57 I think it's certainly well. It's not it's not something I do. You know, it doesn't come easy. I think probably for some people for a lot of people and that's why it's so important that we're doing these types of things. I think that's why we were excited to be able to share our story together a story called. That's why would I add color and again for those who don't know this is an incredible conference that gets put on every single year and add color is I mean, I think probably will not probably, you know, the premier organization the premier going to governing body if you will for the Multicultural and diversity and inclusivity movement within the creative industry and you know, I think the more and more and more and more people get to see other people who are like them who look like them look like then we'll come from the places they come from Steven different levels of success, then the more comfortable we can all become going. So I don't need to necessarily fit into this box. Yeah look like this necessarily or dress like this in order to achieve my ambitions a claim

05:57 Find a really cool. So it's good to hear you say that I know sometimes you as with everyone, you know, I'm the CEO of two officers very successful agency and I stayed at home relief, but you know, we are pretty fun. Me accompany, you know, I have three young kids and but still dies everyone right have moments of insecurity at moment of vulnerability have and it's interesting because I mean with the idea of authenticity. I'm interested to know what are the values that you hold that make you who you are that help you show up on Santa Claus. Yeah. That's a good question. I mean, I think well, I mean I say first and foremost, I think one of the you know, if I'll be the biggest and most important value for me and you know, I am and you know this about me I'm a person of faith and I'm a man of faith is very strong faith. I go to church. You know, I'm a Christian I believe in God and you know the foundation of that obviously belief system and our faith is is living

06:57 For people other than Yourself by Israeli alternate when it comes down to you know, I think as humanity and I'm not here obviously to the sort of preach. Although I have done that to my love it. You know, I think for me I go but I think humanity is at its best does its best individuals do their best when they're able to get to a place where they're living for something other than their self and I think so much of society today in today's world, especially when you live in a place like New York City or Los Angeles to Toronto you are taught to sort of is the opposite, you know, it really is becoming super individualistic and even of social media. So supposedly connects us all people are more individualistic more lonely Moore believing that in order for them to be successful get ahead. They got to look out for number one and I got you know, and I think you know who you living for? Who who you doing it for? What? What is your if your drive ultimately is for you?

07:57 And you alone I think that's it. That's a difficult Place released from me. And I think where I really was able to start to have positive impact I think is when I stop living for myself, you know, and now it's not as pretty late is Bob has 27 28 before I finally was able to shed what I would say, you know from when I graduated from University. I was 21 years old and I was selfish, you know, I believe that I got caught in the whole house of hard. I got to make money, you know, all I wanted was to reach six figures and get the nice car and all that kind of stuff and it probably wasn't until 27 28 sold at you know, things should really shifted for me, you know, and yeah and I think through that experience I think kind of realized. Okay, you know what I'm going to change my mentality a bit when I started to think more about other people when I started to think more about all these friends, you know, Muhammad action meaningful relationships. Do I have in my life and there weren't many and so I made an appointment to try and you know, make some more connections both professionally and in the office.

08:57 Personally, you know in the community and it's interesting how

09:03 That's okay.

09:04 Yeah, sure.

09:07 Horse my man Luigi.

09:15 There is there was a moment about to get really near Luigi.

09:26 Yeah, sure.

09:30 Chuck okay. So yes, I think you know I was I was definitely I definitely got caught up in that hype right of living in New York City being a young, you know, six aspiring to be a young successful, you know, man living in New York City making my own money Rising the corporate ladder if you will and I got into a lot of drinking and a lot of partying and a lot of drugs and love that kind of stuff is basically one night. It was one night where you know, I had a little bit too much to drink and you know, I made a bunch of bad decisions and I ended up in a place that I shouldn't have been and it was really that night what I just sort of, you know, I had to call my then-girlfriend. I'd only been dating her for 2 months now. She's my wife thank God is a rock bottom woman and I had to call her and I remember being really embarrassing. I was certain when I made the phone call that she was going to be mad cuz you know, I really made a bunch of bad decisions like all this situation is remand you to come pick me up.

10:30 And I said you're mad are anxious to know. I'm not mad. I'm just really disappointed which is like a crushing word. Right roughly as you would know this growing up as a as a person of color right have a in Puerto Rican home and my dad is a ex-marine Vietnam vet was a very strict disciplinarian father and that were like I'm disappointed is like still carries the weights, you know, but I'm disappointed in It Rock me and and so you hung up the phone and then I just fell on my face and I remember being really sad and depressed and and I just started praying and I was like God I said, I've been trying to do this thing my way for so long and I just keep running into you no problems and challenges and difficulties in I'm kind of tired. That's so I was like if you're really out there if you're if there really is this higher being if there aren't, you know, I'm like help me, you know, and I'll do it your way back. I'll stop thinking about my just sort of that moment and I think a lot of people have and that was it, you know, and then my face my then-girlfriend

11:30 If you know the sort of a big I think probably you know, I should have propelled me in that and then just threw that I think it was just more of an Awakening, you know, so it's less about just that decision that decision for sure but then it was The Awakening that came from it, right? Cuz then I started not find a church. I got to go to church and you immediately get into this community right about Community but community in in the true sense not community in the cliche sense of people love to throw the word Community around. You know, where is you just go nowhere you're actually accountable to other people where you genuinely care about their success than that and you know you hell yeah, you know, so my wife and I started doing all sorts of things like leading these we call him connect groups was just you know, so the dinner party where we every Wednesday night, which we did for 4 years in Toronto and two years here in New York with every single Wednesday night. We open up our own two young people and they just come over for dinner and we just break bread and chop it up and talk about life and

12:30 You know, but I'm in real conversation, you know, nothing specially for as a man. You don't do that a lot really, you know, you hang out with the boys and you text and I having a real conversation over text when you come face-to-face if you see like did you watch the game and you know, but these dinner parties what we talked about this. How's everything going in your life? Are you okay. Is there anything you need me to be thinking about for you? Is there anything you want to add any advice? And I know you want me to be praying for it and you start to realize like man. I am so much more. I feel so much happier and purposeful when I'm doing this life with a whole lot of other people that really speaks about this is what this basis for and you saw something that didn't exist or needed to exist more of and that's really powerful to create it and it's also speaks that idea of sometimes we have to go through those painful moments to have the Awakening.

13:30 Yeah, I think that's exactly right. That's exactly those moments when it's painful and it's miserable. It is it's bad. It's immense amount of success and I don't mean success by corporate standard. I mean success as in there in a good place in life. Yeah, they're happy with where they are and what they have people who have had a quite a bit of a struggle, you know, and I think it is actually the struggle that builds character and character that builds perseverance and gives you Clarity and then you can kind of get to where you need to get to both personally and I think professionally yeah, it's one of the things when you know, since I'm obviously see you I get Often by younger people Dentistry. Like what advice did you give me? What should I do? What should I be thinking about him? And that's one of the things I always tell people is like be ready to work harder than anyone else and like be ready to fail and be okay with it like you can't and that's really funny. I was dry drove up. I told you from San Diego.

14:30 Here to LA today about a two-hour drive if there's an accident on the phone on the 105 so it took three hours and so I'm driving and I'll pay attention hands-free but I have my earbuds in Bluetooth to my iPad and I was listening to Chris Rock's Sivan. Chris Rock Dave Chappelle's Netflix comedy special and it was just really funny cuz he but you know, he's Dave Chappelle know if you watch him is that his stuff is pretty controversial topics that are you know of the moment and was talking about all the things that are happening right the me-too movement in the lgbtq community and you know sort of Multicultural he's talking about it all but I think one of the things he said they loved as he was like it's important what's happening. All of these movements are so important and I am with them all and I let you know and he goes but we have to all stop being so damn sensitive and we have to all stop cuz I just want is a big difference between being emotional and being overly sensitive in any outages are comedians. So he's much more explicit basically what he was saying is it's okay.

15:30 To not be okay with everything but you can't let it knock you off your course and your game by we have to be to be able to you know persevere through things like that. James ain't went with something happens. But you and you need to know that if you're going to achieve whatever it is, you're setting out to achieve most people again, like I was saying before who were ultimately successful in life have had a tremendous amount of failure early some failure, right? It wasn't a like all the news, you know that you're going to get rocked and how you respond in those moments. I think ultimately determines where you where you go. I think it's also about for me as I've been now, I'm six years into the industry. I've been kind of adjacent in the dni face and now even when fully dedicated to it, but I've been letting go of this idea of perfection that people aren't perfect. But at the same time we should always be striving to get better. So we don't know we don't have to strive for Perfection that's never going to exist in terms of creativity and

16:30 The character in terms of whatever it is in terms of success, whatever but I think it is that balance between understanding and accepting accepting that things are the way they are because we have different experiences because we come from different perspectives and because we've all been exposed to different levels of consciousness in whatever area gender sexuality identity what not. But the same time yeah, it's striking that balance which I find that a lot of people find difficult especially in this day and age where social media just dictate so much of how people feel and think I mean not enough listen both of both you and I are pretty active on social media and I love it for a lot of reasons. You know, I'm one of those probably oversharers, you know, I love it probably first and foremost in the end from selfish perspective because it allows me to stay in touch with so many people who are important in my life in the time is the thing we none of us have enough of so it's like through social media is how am I

17:30 You know, I have a big family my sister and my wife has a big family. We stay in touch as how we keep our family and friends knowing what's happening and I like what's happening with our kids and you know, you could spare me that's kind of how I have used it kind of seeing exactly and I think that looking back I I've always just been an expressive person ever since I was young even though I grew up in a super strict conservative household and I was told by my Korean immigrant mother not to stand out not to really have an opinion not never to challenge authority. And so I just was always have conscious about having an opinion because I didn't really I just wasn't taught to it at all and then once I got older and then I realized but I do have opinions. I do have a perspective and I want to use that and I think ever since I was younger I was always a person that likes stood up for people who are getting bullied like I would that was just

18:30 My thing and then I realized when I got older that's what and I got into the industry. I know found advertising and I thought I want to do this, but I wanted to be a voice like we were saying earlier for something bigger than myself. Well, congratulations because you are and I think you don't just have opinions you have fantastic opinions and I think you've created a platform and been able to express them in a way that has helped write and I think that's and that's why we're sitting here. So so again on the thing for those listen to No, no jet, you know, Jazz and I as we said the beginning we met a year-and-a-half ago, one of the things I love most about jazz was Jazz when she joined anomaly you were you were in the creative Department right art director Arthur. I thought I tried to copyright a copywriter. I'm so flattered though. I copyright a not created Department in a, you know been in the industry. She said six years and then some other things before that was strategy an accountant, but Jess is a remarkably creative person.

19:30 So I think she was expelling in in that role and then what I love those, you know when you had the ambition and confidence basically, you know, and obviously I've been following you for a while on social media. And so, you know, you share quite a bit about some of the struggles you have with no mental health for whatever the case may be but in bed at the same regard here you are coming to me the CEO of the agency basically saying I don't want to do my job anymore. I want to do a completely different job and you told me here here's the job I want to do when I remember sitting there going to have that job here. So, you know, I don't know what to tell you, but I think you know, that was one of the things that really stuck with me was the sort of

20:14 You know any of my head and then when we never talked about this on the top never told you this but you know in my head obviously I'm sitting there listening to you and this probably happens all the time around trying to actively listen, but at the same time my mind is going a million different directions cuz I'm going alright, here's this young woman in front of me. She has this incredible ambition. She clearly done our homework on it. We don't really have that role as you can remember at the beginning. I wasn't certain we needed that and then I started thinking but how difficult it must have been for her to even come here and and make this in a proposal to me because yeah, I know some of the things you've talked about in your past and you know confidence is not wasn't exactly your superpower yet. And so then I got thinking we'll know how do I am I how do I tell her that? I don't even understand why I don't want to tell her that we don't have this role cuz that my crushin it and it was an interesting moment. Right and it's like the more you talked about in the more I saw how passionate you are about it how thoughtful you worry about it how how much you believed you could be successful in that role. I think is Walter Mitty made me think.

21:14 And why I could let let's let's try this and give it a shot. And I think it was that we never really have talked about exactly like our own individual thought process is like coming up so that happened but I love telling the story because when I think it's an amazing case study of what other agencies can do and what other companies can do because especially cuz they normally they really practice what we preach and ambition and entrepreneurial is a man and being different being in an omelette. So I guess if any place where to do it, it makes sense that anomaly worth it to do it and and I think happened because I my dream it when I got into the industry was to be an advertising creative. I didn't have any portfolio. I didn't go to I didn't have the experience to so that's why I took account management job and I was able to transition into the credit department after the president of the old agency. I was at saw this. On iPhone Beyonce music video I made

22:14 And then after that I you came to anomaly was hired anomaly as a creative as a writer and I thought I'm living the dream. I'm in New York City. I'm working at this amazing amazing agency in SoHo. I'm living the dream, right and for a few months it was for a few months. I was on a high and then I realized this is not what I want to do. This is not my dream and I was just chasing when I thought I was supposed to Chase and I went into a deep deep the deepest depressive episode. I've been in my life. I realize what I had to get real with myself will why am I so depressed? Why am I miserable coming into work every day at some place that a place? Is it the place? Is it the position? Is it my team? Is it me? What is it and I had to get real and I kind of I went to therapy and I meditated I during a cold and then I wrote All right. Well if my dream job would exist, what would it look like if I were to manifest as what would it look like? So I wrote down on a piece of paper in my ideal dream job. I would do XYZ.

23:14 It would be a combination of my experiences and strategy account management creative and don't help create change. I want purpose. I want me to hate my life. And I think that I'm really driven by purpose if something doesn't have purpose in it. I kind of just come when I don't see the point in doing it and and so that's when I designed that roll and I was terrified. I talked to probably like 10 people before talking to you and I thought you know, what it what is this presentation look like to you. Do you think they could get the message across? How do you think he'll be received? And because I knew at the end of the day it's also business decision investing in me. It was I was basically asking for an investment. I wasn't under you know, and and since that day since that day you helped to make that happen and & Ally Sable who is our Global had a talent help me that happened to I have been in this intense state of an alignment that I just feel in my car and I think a lot of people around me feel it.

24:14 Professionally and personally and they see that I am living my purpose in a way that I wish everyone else could and I know it's it's in and that's why I just pour myself into it and you know it and that means like I even working long hours. It doesn't like I I don't it doesn't affect me in the same way that I was working long hours before is it crazy? I show up to work different and I feel like I have more autonomy in a way that I think is really important for me personally because I have major ATD to depression anxiety. I'm able to work in different spaces do different things connect with different people and then bring all that back to an hourly report back in a way but it's like this Mutual investment. It's like you and anomaly investing in me so that I can invest back in anomaly in this cycle. And because I'm in such a flu, I'm just I tell the story so much cuz I want other people to do it, too.

25:14 I want other people to create their dream role. I want other people to do what they're meant to do. I love that. And again, I say congratulations to you cuz a lot of people think about that and talk about it, but don't do it. Right that means fear of failure that the like I'm going to go in there and this person is going to think I'm crazy and they're obviously going to say no but you know nothing and they never even take that step and you know, I love it and I think you hit on something. That's really important. I mean I said for me right by my number one value is you know, so the living for someone other than myself for being connected in community for helping other people. I think related to that. You know, I got asked to speak. I'm in a fraternity. I was in the Hispanic fraternity Latino fraternity you when I was in Columbia University and Shout out a you out latino/latina, you know, an inn in an induced paternity was Hispanic attorney, which is modeled after the traditional black fraternities who is much more about community service and Leadership then, you know kind of just parties and hanging out and so I really caught that whole Spirit of commune.

26:14 And giving back and all that to the paternity. And so I did that for a few years. I graduated then I join the National Council to Fraternity in anyway date and then I got married and then I had to kid and then a second Kaden in a third kid and I'm running to companies in time for that anymore. So I probably haven't been active in the fraternity for seven or eight years and then I got hit up in a couple months ago by a fraternity brother of mine. Georgie was like, hey, he's not the National Council president. He said I've changed the entire way. We do convention. Please do convention every year and it was whatever it was. Whack your the changing tide way. We do convention in the way. I'm doing convention now kind of like not dissimilar from add color and Future's he was what we do for with convention out and it's all undergraduate students who are in our fraternity which are predominantly Hispanic young men write junior freshman freshman sophomore junior senior in University from all across the country. So I'll come together in New York and was like a career development for three days where he taught them professional development skills and all this stuff. Right and I was sewing

27:14 Hired by the direction he was taking a fraternity so that I want you to come to the conference and be our keynote speaker, you know, and I get invited to do these things every now and again and I don't always do it because again time right time is tough. But for this am I going to have to do this and I went back and I said no mess it. Look I don't want to get up on the microphone and try to be inspirational aspirational. I want to be really useful as it's what I'm going to do is I'm going to do with the top 10 things. I've learned throughout my entire career and life things that I wish I knew when I was a junior at University enough in the very first thing and it's funny because it can sound so cliche and when I wrote it I was like this is going to sound so cliche and I said 10 things and having a lot of them were useful. This was the one people came up to me afterwards and talk to me about the most was number one in the number. One thing I said, the people was you need to figure you need to get to a place where you are either doing what you love and or loving what you do you have to that there are certain people who are the lucky

28:14 And you get both right where you love what you do? And when I say what you do I use them in your professional. However, you earn a living what you're doing to make money. If you get to a place where you love that that's amazing. Right like the very few people. I think really get to achieve that have a lot of friends who graduated from Columbia University Ivy League school amazing education and went on in there good jobs, and they make a lot of money and they don't love it. And if a lot of them hate it, you know, so I think loving what you do, but the part that I think sometimes people forget is that it doing what you love and those think two things don't necessarily have to be the same but you know for me, you know, I just go I love what I do on the CEO of this incredible agency is creative we get to help people we get to you know, I'm telling stories. Yes communities in a challenge that is close to get to do all this stuff. Also, even though I love what I do. I still make a whole lot of time on the side then to do what I love which is more than just my job, right? And again, that's why I'm so active in the community, right? I'm on

29:14 The board for this organization called Children of the city, which is you know out of Mind by Hometown my neighborhood Sunset Park Brooklyn, which is all about education services for you know, so do at risk youth predominant Hispanic and black students. You know, I'm on the board of an ISO. So it's like that's what I've actually what I love. I love what I do, but that's that's not who I am right time to do what you love I think for you again, you're one of those people who's in a very unique position because the job that you craft in creative for yourself and we've been able to partner with you to bring the life you get to do both your love what you do and you're doing what you love because your row specifically is focused on helping people right? Not just I mean, of course all people but specifically would have focus on people of color people to represent your background people who you know how I have a voice that never felt comes to share that boy. So you think it's important for anyone listening to kind of know that let you know, I think the idea and dream scenarios to find yourself in a place where you are earning a living doing what you love and loving what you do, but no matter what make the time to 2.

30:14 Yeah, but the ones that like me Should Never Lose Yourself never never ever let a job Define you. I think that's what I was doing for a while to I thought I'm a creative him a writer and advertising. That's what I am and that's who I am and then and I think that's why I've always been involved even at anomaly other places involved in ways where I can express different parts of myself out of work. So when we had our this may we had our Asian-American Pacific Islander Heritage Month celebration, and we are planning stuff, and I thought no karaoke Sing-Off. Let's do a karaoke sings. This is one. I love karaoke and all Asians Love karaoke pretty much so we did it and I did a performance and I got in full costume and saying La Vie En Rose from bye. Bye Lady Gaga's performance A Star is Born

31:14 At the place that I work at and I think you are not everyone is like that but I think because I'm just so expensive at my Koreans like about the Bible for me if I'm just not constantly expressing creating and some way than I just shrivel. So I guess right. Yeah, I think it's great when when people yell when there is a place where allows people to bring their full sound so happy right? I love that. I love you. And I think you know now that you were even talking about I think about you go. I think that's probably what's help me get to where I've gotten to his that I somehow managed to always do that. Right what I mean is like when I was in university, I went to Columbia University right high school was easy for me. Unfortunately, I have a really great memory and you know, what if I was able to do well in school I got into Columbia University Columbia University's I always tell people is easy to get into is hard to stay there. Right? I had a terrible academic work ethic right sort of that the way I breezed through high school. I realize my freshman year at Columbia like, oh that is not going to work like that here like this is like I got to study.

32:14 Hard I got to read for hours. I got and it just wasn't my thing and after my freshman year, I withdrew I voluntarily withdrew from Columbia. I wasn't planning on going back. I didn't tell my parents cuz I knew they would freak out. I went home back home to my parents house for the summer the whole summer ended. I was working for my dad's business and then write like a week before what would have been when I was supposed to go back to school. My dad's like all you've done such an incredible job this summer and helping out at home and helping it work. Like I want to buy you a new computer before you go back to school and I was like before you buy that new computer like I got to tell you I'm not going back to school when your cycle. What do you mean it had this big blowout? Right? Because obviously I was the first person in my family to go to college and is really a part for my parents that I did that and I remember seeing my dad. Listen, you know how they say like college isn't for everyone. That's true. I'm one of those people it's not for and I'm not going to do it. So I didn't do it. I took a year off and I pursued my music and I was doing stuff and then I realize like I was being selfish cuz I'm like my parents have done.

33:14 So much and sacrificed so much for me to be able to have the opportunity to go to school and not only am I going to school. I was going to one of the best schools in the country. I got to go back so I went back and I never loved it. But what I did is I started doing what I loved on the side and I discovered this place in the Lower East Side called The nuyorican Poets Cafe and I started going every single weekend and doing spoken word and doing open-mic and writing and that's how I got into music that I really got into hip-hop. And so again, it was like finding that balance right I was doing school because I knew I should and I knew ultimately would be important but I didn't love it. But I didn't let that stop me from then finding an outlet to do the thing. I love writing those two things together. I think that probably is what got me through school and then ultimately I graduated and was able to kind of go on and do and do other things. So I think it's especially important as people of color and for me as someone who is queer identifying and you know who it was mental health disabilities. I think it's important for us to show up in the ways that you know,

34:14 You located us cuz then it gives other people permission to do it without even being spoken and I think the theme in our entire conversation is that we can we've both carved our own path in our own way and we didn't exactly follow something that existed before or followed a model or a person and I think for anyone listening I think that you know, that's an important message that you can do here own way that you can carve your own path and just because you know just because it's amazing harder or you know, it's challenging or afraid especially the fear then it's it's all possible to us that nothing is is not possible and everything we want is accessible to us hanging out and talking to me and this has been really cool has been really fun. Yeah. Thanks, Frankie.