Dave Finders and Lisa Sanden

00:05 My name is Lisa Sanden. I'm 36. Today's date is September 23rd, 2016 location Medora North Dakota relationship to partner co-workers and now luckily good friends.

00:20 My name is Dave fenders. I'm 40 years older than Lasik 76 today's date.

00:31 21st of September

00:38 Okay locations for community and relationship very good friends with this charming lady.

00:53 Sioux Chief what prompted you to start re-enacting? I know you did when you lived in Iowa what Drew you to that?

01:03 I wanted to hunt deer the only way to hunt deer and I was was the shotgun or a bow and arrow. I didn't have a bowl in there. I did not want to hunt deer with a shotgun for gosh sakes but the new law we could hunt with black powder Muzzleloader. So my wife found in all of all place a black powder rifle in the Sears and Roebuck catalog and ordered it for me. I didn't have a clue. We had a hard time finding powder caps ball it all came about

01:38 Okay, that's started this whole thing. It just snowballed from there. I found about reenact. I met some people that did the strange thing. I'm doing now Meredith if you would have wanted it or you might not have found this Hobby in history. We had Davy Crockett on TV. We had the mountain man. We had Jeremiah Johnson all this and I read history books like about this time. Actually the books. I found what about the southern Mount or the Rocky Mount known about for you and what a revelation to come to Fort Union and a place I could do this.

02:28 What brings me to another question you moved here from Iowa? What brought you to the Williston North Dakota area. Actually, I work for the telephone company has low on seniority. They had to get rid of somebody turned out to be me. I had an option Roundup and Dickens Watford for Williston. Didn't know anything about Danielle porch in Italy around up in the Willis where there was four Union because the other places have no historical sites.

03:03 And you remember your first time visiting Fort Union?

03:08 Double Wide Trailer you holes in the ground a sign or two. We need something here.

03:18 And then I know you were part of the reorganization of the Fort Union muzzleloaders a group that does tons of re-enacting for the site, you know, you guys put in hundreds of hours every year. How did that restructuring happen?

03:33 Okay, having belonged to a club. I have helped start down today.

03:43 Has and then had to leave unfortunately all that club kind of went defunct after I left but I come to Willis there. I found out to a co-worker there had been a club but it was now deceased. So I asked if you were the members from that club, what could I do to help reorganize get something going be kind of guided me right way to meet a few other people that had belonged to the club.

04:15 Okay, my wife unbeknownst to me in the background and called the newspaper's TV radio and set up an interview with like minded individual. And then she said Dave you're going to go down Wednesday night to this American State Bank talk to a lot of people, okay.

04:42 There were a lot of interesting people globally organized and went from there.

04:47 How many people showed up at that first meeting? Do you remember there must have been at least 40?

04:59 So what would you say is the purpose of the Muzzleloader organization? You know, what? What role do you play at Fort Union?

05:07 As far as a roll. Okay, when I was a young man, I could be that I do play a clerk or a trade.

05:24 The whole thing is to bring attention to for you if it's been a wonderful experience.

05:33 How do you think Fort Union is important personally to the muzzleloaders? Like what value to the think do you think they're getting out of being at the site?

05:43 Most people don't have a wonderful actual historical site to re-enact that we have this if I make all Hallowed Ground, it's for us we are there. We are taking apart of where history actually was.

06:04 And then what do you think Fort Union gets out of the Muzzleloader? Like what's the value of the muzzleloaders to the site that you see is a volunteer?

06:13 Well, we've helped attract a lot of people to come to the site to reenactments. We do we've done a lot of work at the site of the volunteers building various sheds carts.

06:28 United Corral's, we've always had something.

06:33 Over Labor Day at what we call a project.

06:39 Through the years we've gained a little a jar project downsized to live but our projects are many and we've enjoyed so much doing it. And my favorite is the big huge fur, press out on the front Bank. Every time we do field trips. I usually take the kids to Dad ask them what it is. And typically they want to say it's a catapult and then I have to explain to this is how you do it, but it's such a tangible piece of what Muslims have given to Fort Union, you know, imagine when you go back and see though there's a bit of pride in that there's a bit of of True Heart that's been put in a Fort Union because of that.

07:26 And I also know that you were at the first Fort Union rendevouz. Can you tell us what year that wasn't tell us the atmosphere or what was going on?

07:38 Okay. I have been 2 reenactment all over the country down in Isle Minnesota and Montana, Missouri in the Illinois, Wisconsin. 248 unit. Nothing happening. We got to have something going.

07:56 So I got with a few people that had re-enacted a little bit and we set up a rendezvous rendezvous. Zarndt Crusade never happened before you it's a fruit Tray Deee vent, but Rendezvous catchers the people Spirit. That's what they know. So we went out set up a few times. We had people actually good old friend of mine Smokey from Iowa come and set up a little blank out in front of me Steve and a few other small-time Traders and we okay we advertised we had people come out.

08:37 What is this never seen anything like that?

08:42 We enjoyed and it just went from there volunteer wise.

08:55 And the other question did you guys do any shooting at the site for this rendezvous?

09:02 We had a park manager came in and he knew how to conduct make things happen. Okay?

09:13 We shouldn't be shooting it at National Park site, but

09:23 And so now you've been at every single Rendezvous Fort Union has had how has it changed over the years, you know, has it gotten bigger or smaller?

09:33 Is the atmosphere changing are the politics of the Park Service changing?

09:40 Those are very good questions you have so we started small we started as a family unit a lot of young kids to the years. It's kind of downsized it up size for a while. Then the downsized people kind of lost interest as these later years as you've noticed we have started getting young people with families that wonderful kids. We've always said we are a family and we enjoy the kids.

10:13 Something about muzzleloaders without comun. If you don't find excessive swearing, you won't hear it. You will find that people there look after all the kids. It's just a family. We love to grow. Okay Park policy.

10:35 A few thing we knew we couldn't keep shooting that that was going to

10:42 Through the years and I understand this it's a little difficult but through safety measures we have to do things a little different and it comes to be we can work with.

11:04 So our group for muzzleloaders and I'm a member of muzzleloaders myself. We are growing. Thankfully. We could tie new people coming in without a lot of little kids are just adorable and you're so cute running around rendezvous with a little herd of children. What direction do you think muzzleloading as a hobby is going in general if you can answer that, you know, do you think people are still getting into the hobby specially with new movies like the Revenant coming out some of the Western shows coming out pretty soon movie wise do you think it's growing?

11:39 Well, I'm sure the Revenant will help but I don't see future generations going quite into what with her and I see my grandson sitting in there with this little iPad things. I don't even understand and actually don't want to but I am afraid this will kind of downsize as time goes on there.

12:05 I want to say there are a few that are gaining a little than age and we won't be around forever.

12:14 Definitely sue for re-enacting. You're at the site much. Every month. You're probably out there doing something for us either helping out with the boy scouts or covering the tryouts for us or do any special events. What's your favorite part of re-enacting? What do you enjoy about it?

12:36 The fact I get to live the life that I've read about and study actually I have for you to do this in.

12:48 Most places don't have this wonderful historic site to work with. I'm so fortunate.

12:56 But I just enjoy living the life. I mean some people talk about

13:03 If you haven't actually experienced 30 degrees below zero when you're sleeping out if you haven't been in the high wind the rain Sawyer can't go down if you haven't experienced of hundred and three degree day.

13:21 That's life.

13:24 That's why I enjoy I've been there.

13:28 I mentioned that you usually do talks for us and are tradehouse. I know you do sign language as you're doing it. Can you explain what the Indian sign language is?

13:39 All the tribes on the western prairies clear out into the Northwest had one bit of communication that you could understand.

13:52 Even though they all spoke different language you have swim outside for best all these different kind of languages from the different Pride, but they all had one communication message in Conant and if someone like the deaf language, but there are differences.

14:12 But there are signs for

14:14 Everything you can even get into humor to sign language.

14:21 So it was very important before you knew because when you have up to nine different prived coming to trade at 9 different languages you have interpreters for most of these languages, but you also had the sign language with you could talk with all these tribes people that are coming. So that's very important.

14:44 I know. I know you were at the site During the Reconstruction. What was that construction process like that? Use the

14:53 Unfortunate for you, if I have full-time job. I didn't get out there all that much to see this week instruction. I did see something during the enactment. I wish I could have got into the archaeology at the time. I was digging with a shovel. We we moved a lot more dirt.

15:15 When you see the site reconstructed.

15:18 How does that make you feel? You know, when you see the whole reconstruction done? Cuz you thought when is still flat crown and there was a couple signs here and there a double or a trailer with a small little tiny Museum. How does seen the completed reconstruction? What does it make you feel?

15:38 At home

15:40 For me if I'm at home. I am a place. I dearly love to be.

15:46 It's a place for me to re-enact it's the place to enjoy with my friends my friends aside from my marriage family. My friends are my family.

15:59 Can we do you say without the most letters? You might not have met some of these folks all walks of life.

16:26 How to question for both of you like how do you prepare for the role how to do like initially do an Empire it takes a lot of extensive research to really capture the spirit.

16:41 Reenacting you know people how does one go about like starting that process.

16:52 A good way to start is reading history and there are books to give the overall process but there are books to bring you right down to the little day-to-day experiences. And those are the most important also interacting with other people that have done this and finding different ways finding better waste finding people like the wonderful Mark Moraine sharks reproduce wonderful clothing and finding out what is proper to wear. What is the proper way to eat such small little item, but the deeper you delve into this the more wonderful the experience.

17:38 And we're so lucky with our group of the Muzzleloader is because if you are new re-enactor, there's so many people willing to share that experience in the biggest thing. I'll tell people they want to start.

17:51 Come to an event sit at the campfire start talking. That's how you're going to learn and also know that it's an expensive hobby. This isn't unfortunately inexpensive to buy in a few of the guns all the clothing the shoes, you know, the cookware the tents are the TV's depending on what you want. So it's great to start slow and just kind of easier way and we got most of our folks is through that when I started I had no magic I have nobody that knew I bought a lot of things that I didn't need a lot of things I threw away through the years if I wish I'd have had people like Paul all my good friends that I could have said that instead of guided me in the right way.

18:44 I think most of us go ahead different time.

18:49 We've learned and we would be so black. We tell people come out in your Levi's we don't care join us. We are just glad to have it or muzzleloading Club.

19:03 We tell people if you like to shoot come if you like history, if you like to reenact, we enjoy every aspect you don't have to do it all just come and be part of our family and you're so right when you say we fall down the wrong direction the First dress I bought for Fort Buford which is a neighboring historic site. I was so proud of it cuz you are just had these huge bell sleeves in this big huge skirts, and the print was just beautiful and I went and they're like no no, none of that's right. The skirts too big the sleeves are in the wrong angle and you're still need details to the historic clothing to learn but we've all about something that was later than like, well, I guess that's going to Goodwill.

19:50 Cuz it's not going to wait till the reactants. You can spend a great amount of money on a certain gun a certain knife a certain accoutrement and just like you said, okay, and if you delve deeper into it and most people are really nice. They won't tell if you've done wrong guy do to help it. That's where your 4-week enjoy helping.

20:27 Come to your mind a memorable reenactments or something member what happens at Rendezvous or living history weekend?

20:36 I think maybe when Rod put up that first paper about living history East are used tired of same old dog and pony show.

20:49 Here is a re-enactment for reenact that's in really years into it. In fact, he said we have enough clerks. We have enough trade that we have enough Bourgeois manage the walk around and don't do anything where the clothes you want. Got a buffalo in if you don't want to get dirty don't join us.

21:16 Fight itself. Like if you could just kind of paint a picture for about the Sight & hearing test mean

21:24 We are safe for Union is rate in the northwest corner North Dakota. Where on the Montana border and we're about 60 miles south of the Canadian. So we're up there and the best part is for visitors as they drive up the modern highway to get to the site. You don't see anything for the longest time you clear this bunch of trees and selling there is a huge white Fort you get to bastian's if that 17 foot tall walls you immediately you found the right spot.

21:54 Actually, I told Bill RiversEdge for you and thank you so much for coming. We're not on the beaten path. You must have had this is a destination.

22:06 Thank you for coming and you're right least that's big white wall that advertisement that draw that is history. That was the way it wasn't for works at that time. We're not painted didn't have red rust greengates. This was a draw come to the Big White House on the Prairie what we will treat you well.

22:32 Can you let Madge I tried that I've been over to the Confluence area visiting another Fork just a bunch of logs in the graph for each unit this big beautiful white.

22:50 Must have been very impressed just like it still is that would have been very?

22:57 Ornate impressive body maybe in some ways.

23:08 Now what question I wanted to ask you because I love the story and I'd love to hear it. There was a time that you guys muzzleloaders a few of you went down to Theodore Roosevelt National Park cuz they had the Buffalo they had to

23:23 Do you want to tell us what happened when you guys went there with the Northfield? If a buffalo got out repeatedly, we as a club to go down and Shootist outside the park and

23:42 One day it was perfect timing 1 Labor Day weekend. They called we have to Buffalo balls outside the park. They have got out repeatedly, would you come. We had a proper outfits on we had the proper weapons black powder.

24:04 And we even head Randstad very filling with my camera. We went down.

24:14 We met up with that Park Ranger with a high-powered rifle with a scope Model S.

24:21 We drive out to this area. He said around this Mesa just on the other side are these to Buffalo? Okay when we get around

24:34 Remember we have to be Humane shooting behind the ear.

24:39 If he's a given us 10 seconds more time to think about this DoubleTree Buffalo behind ear and you can't even see a buffalo's here.

24:50 The skull is very thick. You're not going to penetrate the skull with a round LED ball or even a musket ball.

25:02 We did correct place. We all know what she should my bus called the lights which is a like patch of hair right behind the front leg to get the heart longs. He didn't give us time to think of this.

25:19 If we had we all looked at each other to be well, sorry we shot look but no way around the Buffalo take a 75-yard. You can't use the Buffalo. I mean, they're really big that 3ft. Shoot Jerry behind. He's filming the three of us hit the skull between. Correct guns. We hit the sculpt. He saw three pasta dust the park ranger with his high-powered Scopes rifle missed the Buffalo all together.

25:53 Okay, all we did was give the Buffalo eye headache.

25:58 They wander a great big area. We follow them. They go back into the park. Now. We have Buffalo. We don't know what happened. We hope that you are okay. But anyway, the powers-that-be decided because we were shooting old weapons which at the time. We hate to say it, but that's a nice the buffalo herd with this saying weapons, but we're shooting old weapons which are incapable of taking down the Buffalo. So we no longer had the privilege of coming down to shoot. No, I didn't realize that was the end of that.

26:39 Like a farmer in the ones he said hit the buffalo skull those those didn't penetrate by any means the skull that that bullets just not strong enough to do that. There is wonderful, except I rent about a Mountain Dew man 1820-1830. He is walking from the mountains back to St. Louis in the winter time the last all by himself.

27:09 He has enough powder, but he's running out of lead to make the balls. He see the Buffalo out there wandering around on the Prairie.

27:20 Sneaks up to it with a couple of this only two LED balls. He has that he shoots them the lights Buffalo goes down.

27:30 He asked me then needed thinks I shall take some hair off the buffalo skull to put in my moccasins and keep my feet warm in this snow in the winter. So we start scraping on the bottom. And he runs into lumps.

27:45 What do you find some Tire awesome?

27:50 Greenhorn that didn't know where to shoot a bottle and shot the buffalo in the skull about 30 times. That's what give the Buffalo a headache if you want from the wandering around not only the hair but these scrapes the lid off now we have powder and lead enough to make it back to St. Louis.

28:17 Historically you really had to have high skill to be able to survive on the frontier. You know, you had to do a weird issue Buffalo. You had to know what berries to eat as a modern reader.

28:32 Do you think you still back in time and survive Fort Union historic. Ste. 1851?

28:42 I think through the skills. We've learned to that boy scout many other. Yes. I think we could maybe not as well as they did. I had people asked the very same question one thing. I tell her they had to live it.

29:01 I can go home.

29:04 If it gets too bad, I don't have to stay but like I say we have going down to the river last weekend in January and after little camper and a through D Below. In fact my wife well soon to be like to come out during the day with her friend Yvette your friends and they came up during the day but it was ten below. They visited caps that are on the fire went home.

29:39 We climbed in for Buffalo robes are blanks my dear soon-to-be life and Yvette came driving all the way out of town at midnight walk down through the snow one call through the woods to tell us it was going to be 30 below and she didn't want me to freeze before she married.

30:01 Lisa still Arlene

30:05 We said we were already in Buffalo robes and blankets will be okay and we were the only thing is it's a little hard to get up in the morning. But thank goodness Dennis My Savior who is got up early and made coffee.

30:23 Coffee I'm sure was necessary Darlene. Your wedding was at Fort Union me tell us about that how it came about to be at Fort Union why you may be decided it? And then what you did fortunate to have two ladies wonderful. Why is the both got into the re-enacting? This is very fortunate to have met Arlene a little later in life. She's told me one time when they re-enact it was Ben wanted to be the Indian girl.

31:01 She jumped right into the reenactment.

31:05 Okay, we decided to get married at 40 and she told her sister and a friend. I told my sister and her friend. We didn't tell anybody we knew all our friends would be at for eunuch. So yeah, we got married 13 years ago. I still tell people I married my bride right here in front of this Carpenters. That was a surprise wedding had no idea.

31:34 Why did you guys decide to keep it so quiet instead of doing the big announcements and all the hoopla?

31:43 We didn't need the Hoopa. We just needed our friends and we knew our friends would be a rendezvous. So why tell people

31:55 I have no idea and I've seen the pictures. It was such a beautiful wedding. Everyone was in here. Q early has an amazing High dress, which is a little bit of color on it. I so need the Trapper takes a bride. Have you ever seen that picture?

32:14 That is exact dress, isn't it? I never put that together and that are the muses gorgeous dress at the to PC with two pieces of is it Buffalo for hers or the deer Bradenton dear gorgeous and she still wears it at the site everything we are multiple times, but she didn't want to get that messed up but when she goes to that's her favorite and she still gets to wear for wedding dress which not many of us can say

32:59 The doing reenact

33:05 Like how did that come about here? Like is it just the form?

33:11 We want to do this.

33:14 Organizing at Fort Union all parks have what they call a volunteer coordinator there the person who is going to help organize Logistics paperwork. They're the ones are going to work with the volunteers to be able to come out and do what they want to do. I'm the one for Fort Union and I'm also remember the Muzzleloader. So it makes my job very easy, but we do this every year they signed a voluntary agreement and that gives them basically the permission to come out and volunteer on our site being a living history site. We get them out to our site is as fast as humanly possible. It is often, you know, we typically during special events. We set up tents for them will set up the awnings for them will make sure there are porta potties if we need them, you know, that's Logistics the fort take care of and our goal is simply to have things set in place. So when Dave comes out or any of the muzzleloaders, you know, where during a dinner at any of the the tribal folks from Fort Berthold or

34:14 Packer coming out. They just come out and enjoy and do versus worrying about you know, where is a chair? Where is it table? I can set up at that's what the fort does and we try to make it as convenient for the volunteers. We can sometimes some bureaucracy gets a little harder. It's not quite as simple but we've been blessed with an amazing volunteer group in the muzzleloaders where they can just roll with it for the most part. Sometimes I hear things we've had different coordinators like this in the past some to make some we had to earn a little more so we couldn't push the right direction Lisa. It's been wonderful. Actually. This Lisa is our liaison. She comes to our club meeting. It comes to the exec board meeting we discussed with Lisa.

35:10 And she discusses with us what we need or we'd like to do. We're so fortunate to have Lisa living people of History do the research the hiring volunteers of the funnest part for me. You know what I'm having a horrible day or when I'm just super stressed out and it's a special event. I know I can go sit at anybody's campfire and there will be laughter. There will be jokes life will be good. Again. It's truly the funnest part of what I get to do. And I I love all the other aspects. But this one is the most enjoyable and the muzzleloaders. It's a family, you know, it's it's truly you're great friends, but I know I can count on any of them at any time which is pretty phenomenal if you think about it, you know, we're incredibly lucky site and being a living history site if we didn't have volunteers.

36:10 You wouldn't get the feel for Union.

36:14 You know. Have you ever had a visitor say something like that to you about how you know, this re-enactment makes us I adore I understand history more at the jury indictment or even when I'm just talkin one or one-on-one or to a family in the trade routes. They say okay this helps it come alive. This this is not just a building. This is not just a port side with a hole in the ground. Will you read the sign? This is a living-history play. This is a dynamic. This is a place we can understand actually what's going on what happened in history? Yes and least.

36:59 Lisa understands history, we've had coordinators. Like I say that had no interest in history. We're just

37:09 Once again, thank you the lease best part of my job by far. I enjoy it and it's been fun to get into the muzzle loaders and more understand. What were they doing? And when you get to my trying to get everything set up and it's ready. It just makes the entire been easier for everyone versus all we got to put the garbage out. But the for right now is a whole has a pretty amazing team that you know, really pulled together to make the events happen, you know our maintenance Chief you'll see him out putting a bonding before Rendezvous are Super Nintendo come out and help out, you know, if we need somebody to hold steaks or something like that. I don't know if every part has that ability. I don't know. I don't know if every park has a team that works.

37:56 Oh, I've been to many national and state parks where you walk in and there's somebody behind the desk might look up and say hi and go back to reading a book. You don't get the feeling like you do it for you and in your right the whole staff and for you are phenomenal because they're all out there pitching it going above and beyond what is necessary is icy. So what's so happy?