Paul Bauer and Lisa Sanden

Recorded September 23, 2016 Archived September 23, 2016 42:27 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddf000143


Paul (64) talks to Lisa (36) about his role in the reenactment group Muzzle Loaders organization and constructing and erecting a flagpole at Fort Union Trading Post Historical Site.

Subject Log / Time Code

Paul talks about how he got involved with Muzzle Loaders, an organization that stages re-enactments at the Fort Union historical site. He had moved to the area to work in the oil industry and saw an ad in the paper announcing a meeting for the Muzzle Loaders.
Paul talks about how the association rebuilt a flagpole at Fort Union.
Paul discusses what it was like to climb the flagpole.
Paul describes the members of the Muzzle Loaders and how there are families, not just men.
Paul discusses how he left the group for 10 years after falling on some hard times and how he returned to the group.
Paul talks about how belonging to Muzzle Loaders makes him feel comfortable inside his skin.


  • Paul Bauer
  • Lisa Sanden

Recording Locations

Life Skills Center

Venue / Recording Kit


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00:04 Mark main Lisa Sanden. I'm 36. Today's date is September 23rd 2016. We're in Medora and my relationship to my interviewee is good friend and volunteer coordinator for

00:21 My name is Paul Bauer. I just turned 64 years old. My today's date is September 23rd 2016. We are located in the beautiful town of Medora and my relationship to Lisa is a friend who has the highest respect for her.

00:42 Thank you. Paul soap all you've been a Muzzleloader Fort Union Muzzleloader for how many years now total of about 30 is a Muzzleloader but active

00:59 Union

01:01 When I first visited Fort Union, there was no Fort Union there. It was simply a sight and a double wide trailer house.

01:09 But you could feel that there was.

01:14 A great deal of activity had gone on there. I am a person that I know there are spirits and I understand it and you can feel them they were there and it was a place of just could inspire you to to know and when you understood what it was about

01:36 Find out about them game from Jamestown and Jamestown North Dakota in 1982 looking for a job in the oilfield. I slept in my 1960 Ford van in the middle of the winter. I slept in rest stop bathrooms while I was trying to find a job chained up in the middle of night to go out to no oil rig. That's how I got here. When I finally settled in there was an ad in the paper that invited anybody to meet at Gate City Bank in the basement to listen to a gentleman talk about re-enacting and fur trade history and developing. This may be developing the interest.

02:18 And was that Defenders wife put an ad in the paper was it that ad?

02:30 What was that meeting like?

02:33 Everybody was very attentive. We were wanted to know what this man had to say cuz we were all very interested in this type of activity. And this was a man who came to us with a great deal of experience. And so we wanted to know more and so we asked questions and listened and

02:53 Gained a lot of inside at that particular meeting from that. Did you guys just start me?

03:01 There were actually already two different groups in similar nature here and they had pretty much gone by the wayside and sews those members and along with the Defenders Pathfinder as we affectionately call him.

03:21 We started just decide what we wanted to do and how we wanted to form a club. There was no question that we were going to form a club. But what did we want this club to be?

03:30 And then this was a 1981 or 1983 Xbox 360. How do you get from just starting this club or combining the other two clubs to make 1 to 1985 and you're working on the flagpole. How does that progression happen?

03:49 What do you remember I should say about that? That's a very good question. It's it's something like taking a trip and you don't remember everything that happened during that trip, but you remember the good memories and that is really Lestat called that the progression is everybody had a common goal everybody had, desire and so when we were talk about things everybody already had the interest and so it was just a natural progression of things in Fort Union was hour.

04:22 Call Ramada if you want to call that because that is where interest fell in that particular. In history.

04:32 For the flag, you got an amazing story regarding the spirits and the flagpole. Do you mind sharing that second building? That's the second building of the five. Let's wait for that then.

04:52 Sue doing the first flag pole who all worked on that played pool in the club and our club was made up of families. It wasn't a group of men that enjoy muzzleloading her or any of that. These are all families along with kids from newborns on up and the we would go out on weekends and we were start building this flagpole the parts in that were all donated scrounged in Handmade by members of the club and so as we would get parts we would go out and Woodworking and build a spiteful forward from plan that was provided to us by the National Park Service. Are you able to get like, how did you put this together? The poles themselves came from you? I want Anna Dakota utilities electric company in Williston. They donated the pulse. They were old posted already been in the ground about 30-40 years and they've been replaced with new ones. So we got those we had

05:52 Ironworkers in our club on machinist interclub, we had artists in our club. So like one of our members took sheets of copper and hammered out the fish that's on the top did it by hand other members understood what we needed for the bending of the irons were there the polls are tied together and they have worked in a machine shop where they were allowed to do that and everybody else just came with an Earnest effort ready to put it together and we figured out how to do it.

06:24 Sue putting up that first played full how did that feel when you saw it rise up and you got to put the first flag on it?

06:36 You stand there in awe.

06:39 You stand there remembering every

06:44 Piece of work you did to get it there every conflict you had in the process meant nothing anymore. It was gone. The flagpole is there the flag was on it and it's like standing at any American flag.

07:01 Your heart is full your pride is bursting and your

07:08 Your whole self being is just satisfied with everything you've done.

07:14 And the dedication was done, but I heard before that you might have climbed the flagpole.

07:21 Yeah, we did that was back in the day we did and there was a few of us to climb the flagpole before the dedication or after after the dedication. It was I come to think of it and I was the one who was told that since I led the project in building. I was to go first which meant then it was my flagpole. So I picked out my friends who went up there first because you weren't quite sure the pigs for the honour. I I really wanted some friends of mine to have the honour who spent a great deal of time working on it was there when I called for him was there sometimes when I didn't call for him and so I decided that about three different gentleman that could climb the flagpole the day of the dedication.

08:18 What's the experience of being on the top of that fly Pole?

08:24 It is an absolutely amazing sight because you're setting up on the Crow's Nest.

08:31 And you are looking up and down the great Missouri River and you're sitting there Imagining the steamboat Yellowstone coming upriver the black smoke coming out of it and getting ready to dock just at the bank you're Imagining the area around the fort filled with teepees from the tribes that came to trade at the Fort you're imagining all of the

08:58 People in the fort the bus line that was going on. Even during the dedication. Those people were traders that day as you look down off the Crow's Nest. And so you imagine what it was like to be back in 1828 and what the feeling was and it's about as close as I've ever been to what I think would be an original environment of the fart that played pool is 30 feet off the ground is so 70 foot pole with I mean to the very top I think the Crow's Nest is about 40 feet or something like that. I'll never experienced that it's an awesome experience. It really is.

09:42 But it's not for everybody and that's okay. That's okay and Lisa mentioned you don't get to do it anymore know I'm too old to do that anymore whether they made this amazing flavorful. They put it up.

09:58 And I must have been a great experience being the first reconstruction on site.

10:04 I don't sure that it was the first there was one back in about 1925. There was there was there was there was something back then but we were the first reconstruction based on historical documents and built it to its original scale and the original location is like you cuz it didn't disturb any of the artifacts or the archaeology. So when the National Park Service requires a site and they start doing archaeology, they find the flagpole remains they find it and that's where it's been rebuild on top of right in the very spot nominal and even how it's braced in the underneath. The ground is based on those archaeological digs you mention that is that when we were they did the archaeological work to to a point where that they were comfortable but they hadn't dug the entire pull out yet when we went to drill it into auger it out.

11:04 We still sell remnants of the original pole coming out just a few but there were original they had to be from the original Paul cuz it was pieces of a tree come out. If it really was it was it's it's one of those humbling moment and we had a lot of those out there very humbling moment out there. You got to watch them the rest of the fort be reconstructed around it. When you look at the site today the full reconstruction. Do you feel like the muzzleloaders building that flake kicks off the Reconstruction we have today the most important part of it, but we also have some very Progressive people in the community that as they sought go up as they saw it happen. It stirred something inside of them and these are the people that understood how Congress works and and how other things work that we didn't know until they went to battle they went to fight and I know of people who spent tons of their own money traveling back and forth from DC to DC

12:04 To lobby for the efforts of building at that for it. So yes, we we raise the interest but there was a much larger group that got the whole Ford.

12:15 Supposed to be the impetus for it.

12:19 So you see a girl? What do you think when you look at the Fort today? Are you pretty proud of the accomplishments you guys have?

12:26 When I go out to the Ford today, yes, I'm very proud of see you in the fort there. But what makes my heart feel good is when I watched the people the visitors Who come out there my friends who are out there in time. Clothing re-enacting the Rangers that are out there. This isn't just a job for them. There is some passion that

12:49 Everybody has inside themselves when they see what happens to the fort and you stand there and you go.

12:56 You feel like you're surrounded by the on guy J's. The clerk's the Traders the natives when you were when you're outside and you feel those people around you in the end. It's very inspiring.

13:13 To being in the muzzleloaders

13:15 Before you join them, have you done any re-enacting before that? No re-enacting. But when I came to Williston, I was in the process of building my first black powder rifle. I had I did that actually for 5 months. I when I lived after I finally found a camper to live in I worked inside the camper when I wasn't working in the oil field and was working on this rifle. So I had an interest when I came to Williston about this whole environment has perfect timing and your children participated at Fort Union as well. One of the things that I look back on and we were all young families in and we all had kids and these kids just played their hearts out out there and enjoy it my my son's today but one being C40 and one being 43 still talk about the times that they spent out of Fort Union in RTP.

14:14 They have any good stories they like to tell about it.

14:17 Yeah, I don't have any of the stories right on the tip of my tongue. But I know what they used to do back in in that day. I mean we would go down on the river bottoms and get Willows and we would make a bow and arrows and we would and so they'd run around the camp. You know, I mean in shooting that I mean it was it was.

14:37 It was really a great learning and educational environment for those kids.

14:45 Now that the group is there there seems to be a an upswing in young kids again in the group has that changed the Dynamics of it?

14:55 It really has I mean there for a long time the group appeared like it was stagnant that it wasn't going anywhere other than just the 4th, but we started to receive some new members who had kids and it's back to the environment was when we had kids hits.

15:18 It's the most wonderful place in the world to be when you see all those kids out there running around enjoying it. That's one of my favorite pastimes when I'm at the Ford is just sit and watch the kids play.

15:30 What's an issue point to bring up? We had a visitor once who was concerned. No one was watching the children. One of the tourists come by my tent and we were chatting as we do with everybody. They come by they ask questions. We talked about history and what have you but that question that day was

15:48 Nobody's watching those kids and I looked at her Isis. Everybody's watching those kids. Just try to approach one once you'll find yourself surrounded because this is family. I don't care where you come from. This is family.

16:10 So you volunteered at Fort Union for many years. What do you feel makes Fort Union special and now it's special in the historical sense of your ear surgery say but special for you. Okay, I was gone from the muzzleloaders for about ten years. I was off on some other things and it became a very difficult time in my life very difficult. I'm pretty much in Despair. And so I had to sit and I was thinking about what I wanted to do where I wanted to go and one of the thoughts that came in or one of the questions that came into my mind was where was the last place I could trust anybody.

16:51 It was the Fort Union muzzleloaders. So I went and I attended a meeting I got back in and I attended a meeting in the basement of the MDU room II table from the back sitting in the second chair from the right hand side.

17:06 They receive me like I had never been gone. It was like I had been to every meeting from the time I left to the time I come back and it was just that's what's special about Fort Union in about the muzzleloaders is because that is how you are received from day one going forward. Was it almost like coming home and away at home?

17:31 And that also prompted the second flag pole because in 2007, I believe the flagpole failed top snapped off. The Crow's Nest came down luckily lightning rod kept it all together, but it was it was broken the park had it removed and then there was a lot of debate about what to do. So how did that come about if broke remember when we built it everything we got was used and old and so it lasted 25 years and so then run or broke broke.

18:06 That was about the same time. I'd come back to the Fort or back to the muzzleloaders. And when I did they were in discussions about this broken flagpole.

18:16 And I was in the beginning I was the guy who led the construction I had the contractor and Carpenter skills. And so I'm sending a listening to this and they're talking about how this will never get a reconstructed costs are going to be enormous o talkin fiberglass flagpoles steel flag poles and it and it went on and on and I'm just kind of list. I'm just listening.

18:41 And then I went out to the port over living history weekend, which is Labor Day weekend.

18:48 And I saw the pole without the top on it all that was there was a crow's nest and it was a very sad time.

18:57 One of the nights that weekend, everybody else have gone to bed. I was just back still in awe being back and wondering why I never been gone. And so I I was sitting on one of the the stumps.

19:10 And I'm looking at the flagpole.

19:13 I said earlier that I think I did that I believe in spirits and I'm sitting on this this dump and I get the feeling the shape all

19:26 You need to rebuild this flagpole this needs to get done.

19:31 I can visualize the spirits that they weren't in the form of people. They were just in the form of a spirit. If you want to call it that two of them one on each side of the Crow's Nest and they said Paul you need to do this.

19:45 And so I went back to the next meeting of the muzzleloaders and I said I'm going to rebuild the flagpole and they said can't be done. There was such challenges so many things in our way so many things that anybody's way it was just impossible to rebuild this it's going to be replaced with some foreign object. That was never out there. And I said no I'm going to rebuild the fight ball.

20:12 And so I started asking some questions and finally they said well go talk to the director.

20:20 And so I invited him over to my house and we sat on the back porch cuz I had heard that the wasn't going to rebuild the flagpole. Something else was going to take place or whatever the case might have been but I invited him over to my house and we said on my back porch, which is covered. It was in Fall much like it is right now and not too far from my place. There's a little Lake and geese were flying off that Lake and flying right over top my house. Just so low and quiet and we talked for probably an hour. I went through the whole process of how we had built it the first time how we did, you know the challenges we had the the fun we had success stories. We had and after about an hour. I looked at him I said,

21:04 I need to rebuild this flagpole and he said okay it is that simple it was that simple and that would be the superintendent for a superintendent for Fort Union and E Banta just stepped up and said, okay and I went back to the club and they had even said this before but I went back to the club and every member jumped on board and we started gathered that we had some money this time. We didn't have any money last time. We had some grant money a little bit so we were able to buy the pole. So they're brand-new. We were able to get white oak pegs instead of the red oak pegs that we had to turn ourselves in and all kinds of things. So this thing is very stable now, but we were able to build it we built it in my driveway.

21:46 There's no place. I was at Fort Union. So we would have to drive out there all the time while we just couldn't do it this time. And so we built it right in my driveway, which is plenty long enough and then we carried it out there on a semi on and put it up a better fact when we took it out to the second time. The truck couldn't fit through the gate at the Fort and so they had to pick it up and lift it over top the walls.

22:16 And take it in that way and I miss that entire experience. That was my one year. I was gone from the site. So the big huge it was a lower Yellowstone Electric Co-op bigger truck. So they actually the list the whole bowl over the wall for the wall and I brought it on the inside set it down and then move the truck and then picked it up moved it again till I got it over by the site then they set up Andre dug the hole which has been somewhat excavated already, but they re dug the hole and set it.

22:47 And and that was all volunteer on their part. They donated that it was amazing. So many people willing to step up to do that. What does the process of redoing the flagpole cuz people had 20 more years of experience. Do you think the new flagpole last even longer and we were able to put in preservatives where we needed was a different types of material. We didn't have to use basically palette material to build a crow's nest. We were able to buy treated lumber that is going to last for a very long time to process happen. If people would just come to your house start working on it whether they like set times who was doing it all we got the poles into my yard and then I set times that they would come over to my shop and we would work on different elements in and I would instruct him as to okay. This is what we're going to do today and we would get those things done and we had the same.

23:47 Sing We had that it wasn't just the men that did it. We had women showing up. We had kids showing up. We had everybody showing up to work on that Flagpole Sitta by hand and henna do both the Old and the new and we have some people that cuz you said we had 20 more years experience. We also had 20 more years on us. So it was a little more difficult little more challenging but we have some members who were not real healthy, but they even such a stinker you might remember him he and his wife stop by for a half hour and worked on the flagpole so they could say they had a piece of it and we invited and encouraged it just amazing Community Britta Community involvement and getting this item done our folks from all over the country basically including Canada.

24:47 So it's quite an extended family.

24:52 The flagpole goes up we do the dedication and you carry the flayed to play pool or your son did who hadn't been out to the fort in years because they live in eastern United States, but it so happened that they made their trip back to our place so that they could be there during the dedication. So I wore my bougeoir outfit my son wore my clothes back from the day when we dedicate as he was wearing my exact same thing the day that we dedicated it the first time and then he has two boys, they walked up with it. So I carried the flag my oldest grandson in from his side of the family walk beside me, my son carried our other one and we walked up and handed the flag to the boys that are on the flag pole again. Those are people who helped build it and they were going to raise it.

25:53 And then again you don't climb the flagpole anymore anymore.

26:07 Yes, that was it was my lucky day. I was so fortunate, you know, I was praying that it would get stuck.

26:14 Just so you have a great excuse that slide over reason to go up there.

26:19 And how was it seeing that second one go up. Was it that same sense of Pride? You had the first time double Marshall. I mean cuz you still had the pride from the first time and now we've accomplished it again and the same people the same group the same environment the same challenges and we just did it all over one more time construction. It's like yeah, the flake hole is the first but it's also the last reconstruction and its you know, again that flake pool is that if it is to start the Reconstruction and I think with the second play pole be at the members come back. I hadn't even the group as much he knows what kind of men do interest but it was a bit of that for the muzzleloaders as well. It kind of put the the the thing back in our pride again.

27:15 Stu

27:20 Actually

27:26 How's that you had mentioned as a child or like even before like you kind of fell into the snow attending the meeting and muzzleloaders had you been interested in history. Was it something that you and I guess at the time you were working at the oil rig. So, I mean, it sounds like a busy schedule and then to do something like this and join the association. I have always had an interest in the olden days. If we might call it that whether that was 1930 or 1830 it so happened that I run into a group of folks that was 1830 and that's kind of where the interest took off from there. I'm not a historian.

28:13 I don't sit down and read books every day about what happened. I draw a lot on the experience of my friends. I do study some I do study history. I'm studying the history of banjos right now. And and so but it was a whole feeling that whole environment made me get involved. It was something I could do with the interest that I had.

28:38 Earlier you had mentioned you left for like 10 years.

28:44 But you came back. Like was it something that you just decided I miss that I have to wear my kind of passion lies or cuz it's not directly like that. It was it was a pretty low spot in my life.

29:03 And I was sitting on my porch.

29:06 Trying to figure out where was the last place I could trust people?

29:11 Now when I went to the meeting

29:13 I didn't have any hopes of them taking me back in I just was the last place. I knew I could trust people cuz maybe these people and it's hard to go on without explaining but but there was some challenges that it happened and I just thought well it was the last place. I knew I was so let's go see what's going on and it was like I was never gone.

29:37 Family it is it is a family. It's it's absolutely as a family.

29:44 It's one of my favorite things about my job is being coming part of that family going to the meeting talking to people and finding out what people are passionate about. You know, every Muzzleloader has a skill set at the site. Everyone has a passion you do some do the blacksmithing some at Uncle G's Christmas in the winter like to skin and butcher deer. Everyone has something at the site and it's amazing that got this place. They can do it as you should we have hunters out there. We have blacksmiths out there. We have rifle makers. We have Potter's we have seamstresses out there. We have people who just trade in Goods out there. We have Carpenters out there. We have books out there we have I mean it goes on and on it is a village is what it is and we have all the skills.

30:43 In for a visitor, you guys are out there doing your thing. Do you think of visitor can get an idea of the history the site without the living history aspect of Fort Union?

30:57 I've seen people come out and walk around and look and walk away. I know they didn't get it.

31:05 I've seen people come out and sit down in my camp and we start chatting and they start to get it.

31:13 We see people or I've seen people come out like this last weekend come into my station where I was blacksmithing and get involved in making something. I've never done anything before and blacksmith in particular. The children was interesting. I can use that as my example young girl is just probably about 9 or 10 and she's nervous about getting involved or doing something with the hot fire and everything while I make a hook for her and show her how to do it. And then I walked her through the hook and then she won't stop. She just keeps making hooked after hooking up to her, and she gets it. I think she must have made ten or twelve of them. She was just going one right after another she got it she started to get it and that's where a tourist.

32:04 Can succeed or fail?

32:06 Sit down and talk with the participants get engaged in something. That's their don't just window shop while you're in Fort Union.

32:17 So the muzzleloaders we've been growing recently, which is fantastic. Where do you think the groups going to be in 10 or 20 years like what you see happening with it?

32:29 I think everything has a cycle.

32:33 Just as muzzleloaders did from being a fully energetic crazy bunch of people to kind of being a slow group to again back to being a crazy bunch of people just love what they do and enjoy being around other people and in doing that and we have enough young people in there now that I think that's how that's going to continue for quite a while and then it probably will slow a little bit but I don't see any reason why it can't continue on that cycle. Are we just keep getting bigger at least for now thought of yet one recently matter fact Lisa you brought it up but historical sewing and education if we continue along those Paths of teaching people who have interest people like myself originally who didn't have the skills but had the interest if we continue to teach them there's no reason as Club shouldn't just go on for ever.

33:34 And then I have a question for you. Do you have any other Spirit stories you want to tell about Fort Union or re-enacting in general or any story?

33:48 We used to Camp down on the river bottom or I would go and we'd sit set up my TV and we'd have other camps were there was a young man that was working for me at the time and was interested. His name was David Evanson and he was interested in what we are doing. Well. This was a late fall and he says well, what's it like to sleep in a teepee? Itis watch great. This is you just did all the fires going. It's nice and warm and everything. I said, she said what do I need to bring and I said, I'll just something to to the slight sleeping bag and everything. Well, that's how you treat newbies because I took all my blankets and everything in it. He had to spend the whole night up a wake keeping the fire going so he can stay warm which kept me warm.

34:33 But that very same night when I sent my TP. It was 60u00b0 in the afternoon and it snowed about 2 or 3 in at night through the night.

34:43 David Nye heard footsteps go buyer TP. This is after it snowed go by RTP and then come back again. And we got up and looked and there was no Footprints. Wow during the dedication. Just wanted 2009.

35:02 When when we were walking up with the flag, my son and I my daughter-in-law and my wife were standing back on the boardwalk and later. My wife told me she said. Melissa, my daughter-in-law looked at her and said you feel it. And my wife looked at Isis you mean the children?

35:23 And she said yeah, they felt the children at the fort.

35:28 We don't know and we've heard I've heard of other experiences with people actually seeing the children there. We've had experiences of footsteps up on the boardwalk coming but never going back. We've had a number of those types of activities and if you just sit and listen, you can hear a lot of things.

35:52 There's nothing scary at the site know everything is friendly ever. Nothing is nothing spooky out there at all. It's it's a wonderful place to be and it's it's I guess the feeling I get around to spirits that I that I've experienced that there is the same feelings that I get when we're all sitting around the campfire out there. It's the same exact feeling.

36:16 Finally, or maybe I'm finally or do you have a question how important that is Fort Union to your life.

36:25 Well, how important is my right leg to my life?

36:33 It's a part who has made me feel comfortable in my own skin.

36:38 It's it's it's the resurrection of my spirit from when I was down.

36:44 And how you can describe that you have to know what experience it and feel it then you'll know what I'm talking about.

36:52 So how about the Mufflers how important are they?

36:56 100% their family. I mean your family your family.

37:04 Bring some use moved here from outside of the state like a lot of folks here in the muzzleloaders. It is family. It's an extended family situation would be there.

37:21 Do you have right now? How many paid members are out in the twenties? But there are so many other members the people that come from all over we had 45 pieces of canvas on north of the fort for rendezvous. All of them are family and the multiples inside those tents so volunteers total and that some muzzleloaders some folks in Canada or around the state, but they are all family.

37:53 Is the programming or has that changed like like what type of reenactment you're going to do?

38:03 Well when Paul has a choice everything's an event so we can camp out at the site. But we try to do is Rendezvous living history weekend. We invite everyone out to participate enjoy but due to casually since I've started being volunteer coordinator weed increased how many events we have what we all start with Rendezvous. We have Labor Day weekend. We have blacksmithing we have on guys Age Christmas we have work days for things like hopefully the black massage chairs will come out to the blacksmith shop. Did the canopy blue down twice this summer. So it needs to be rebuilt of volunteers. I just waiting for the word to go so we can get it done and I want out of it any time you can spend time at Fort Union.

39:01 What family are you in by yourself? It's a very spiritual place to be.

39:12 Would Pat like as a cat camper or how how do you have to remember? We are not the same persons that were there that we are not that tough. Okay.

39:23 I mean imagine pulling a cubit up River in the mosquitoes day after day after day we couldn't do it. You know, I could probably get about 20 yards. That would be a time for coffee.

39:33 But we do take our coolers have been one of the fact you want to safety and health is very important factors when we camp weather support you and your new place. I'm not 100% of everything we do is is. Correct unless we go on a track unless we go on a walk out and then yes, we will take only those things that would have happened but we never make kids do that. I mean that that's the family part. So everything's covered up. So the visitors aren't going to see any of that modern Roy. Thanks and they're seeing the historic the covered up with robes and hides and everything, but it's 98% correct.

40:22 Got anything else that you wanted to say or ask her or you asked me once about what it was like to climb the flagpole. What is it like to climb the playful?

40:32 It's an adventure at every Peg.

40:36 At every Peg now if the wind is blowing its steady as long as it's a steady win if there's no wind the pull waves back and forth as you climb and it and it gets further and further the higher up you go.

40:48 So what you do is you take one hand you grab a pack and you slap it hard to make sure it's solid then you move one foot up.

40:56 And then you grab the other hand and you grab a pack and you move the next foot up and then you stopped and you breathe and then you go up to the next break and you do that process all the way up to the to the Crow's Nest cuz you're going straight up. This is on the ladder. You're going straight up in the air. So you always stop and breathe and your composure because it is a little bit nerve-racking and you don't know when you get up to the top you thank the Lord for the making me get up helping you get up there. And are you afraid to get down and but it is it's it's a rush. It's like you're Daredevils and the rush they get the adrenaline if he's that's what it is.

41:34 She said there's no safety equipment in fortunately. Is there a safety equipment but it doesn't follow or well what happened was I had never put that kind of equipment on before so I let people smarter than me hook me up and they put the one in the wrong spot and plastic broke when I was part way up there and the whole ground down below me going just because you take a deep breath and I'm going to yeah, so what and I'm going, you know, I'm much more comfortable now, I don't I'm not worried about somebody down in the bottom pulling a rope and cuz I'm in control hundred percent now and so yeah.

42:16 What a treat what a fun. It's just a joy of Russia, whatever you want to call it.