Deborah Bliss and Joshua Bliss

[00:02] DEBORAH BLISS: Hi, I am Deborah Bliss. I'm 41. Today's date is Saturday, January 9, 2021. I am calling in from Peekskill, New York, and I am having a conversation with my brother Josh.

[00:20] JOSHUA BLISS: My name is Joshua bliss. I am 25 years old. Today's Saturday, January 29, 2021. I. I'm calling from Brooklyn, New York, and today I am speaking with Deborah Bliss. She is my sister.

[00:35] DEBORAH BLISS: So, Josh, thanks for talking to me. I know we grew up in a really small town in upstate New York. And you finished your bachelor's studying in Boston. And I wanted to talk to you about how you got there, what your path was to Boston University.

[00:53] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah. So. Right. So we. Yeah, so we went. You know, we grew up in a very small town, but our high school ended up. It was still fairly large. No, There was about 400 kids, but still not that many. It was still very. I still very much, you know, in high school had a, like a big fish in a little pond mentality.

[01:22] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah.

[01:24] JOSHUA BLISS: So I just sort of assumed that any college would want me. I didn't really need to apply myself to anything. So I didn't end up taking my. I didn't like take my SATs until the November before college applications were due. I didn't get my test results until December, something. I didn't send out any of my college applications till well into January. So I was rejected from every school I applied to. I was waitlisted. I was rejected from two. I was waitlisted from at bu, NYU, and Boston College. So that sort of threw a wrench in my plans. And then I was sort of just like drifting. Didn't know what I wanted to do. Then I just looked up state schools around that had rolling admissions. I didn't end up. I think I ended up applying to SUNY Brockport, MVCC, and SUNY Oswego in August.

[02:26] DEBORAH BLISS: Yes. Those are all like you say, in upstate New York.

[02:29] JOSHUA BLISS: Upstate New York, very close.

[02:30] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah.

[02:32] JOSHUA BLISS: Rolling admissions. They. Yeah. Classes started at the end of August, so I still was really down to the wireless. And I had no idea what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go. I was just at a party at one of my friends houses and they were like, well, I'm going to Oswego, so you should come to Oswego. And so that is how I chose to go there. Yeah. And so I was there for only a semester. The whole time I was there, I knew that I still wanted to. It was sort of a reality check, very humbling experience. So I realized I Was like, okay, I probably should put in some effort.

[03:09] DEBORAH BLISS: What made you think it was, like, a humbling experience and, like, you know what I mean? Like, how did you feel about that? I know, like, from my experience of going to community college, like, just taking a semester. Like, how was that feeling for you?

[03:24] JOSHUA BLISS: Well, so, yeah, so before. I feel like before I applied, it was, like, very much. I had, like a. It was very much like a. Like I said before, it was like a big fish, little pond mentality. Like, I was at the top of my class. I didn't really have to try too hard. I was like, anyone would want me. And then, like, getting multiple rejections sucked.

[03:43] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah.

[03:45] JOSHUA BLISS: So I didn't. Yeah, I didn't want to do that again. So I was like, all right, let me, you know, get things in on time, you know, fill out applications correctly. And then I. And then when I went to a state school, I noticed that in my classes, it just wasn't academically challenging enough.

[04:07] DEBORAH BLISS: Right.

[04:08] JOSHUA BLISS: That was a lot of. So I remember I was having a lot of fun, and I was wondering, like, I remember wondering, like, oh, do I want to stay here? Like, it is. Like, I did. Like, my plan was to always leave. But then I remember when I got there, I was. It was very comfortable. Like, everyone was still from the general area. So, like, there wasn't a lot of change. It was still close to home. I could, like, do laundry at mom and dad's on the weekends.

[04:29] DEBORAH BLISS: Right. Right.

[04:32] JOSHUA BLISS: But, yeah, I remember just, like, not. I would just, like, things were still too easy. Like, they're. Like, I wasn't being challenged. It was like, I want to. I need to. For my own growth, need to be somewhere else.

[04:47] DEBORAH BLISS: I'm trying to remember, was it a semester or was it a whole year?

[04:49] JOSHUA BLISS: You were there. It was only a semester. So that one. I still applied. I really got to get better because I remember I. I don't remember the exact day that the applications were due, but I remember having to run around the halls, find and find. To find someone with a car to drive me to the post office so I could overnight my application materials so they would get there by the deadline.

[05:14] DEBORAH BLISS: Right. Right.

[05:18] JOSHUA BLISS: And, yeah. So I ended up applying to the three schools I was waitlisted at. So I reapplied to nyu, BU, and Boston College. College did not want me. And then I ended up getting accepted into NYU and bu. I remember I was in a music class checking, like, my other emails because, you know, I was supposed to be taking notes on my laptop, but I was just Doing whatever. And, like, I got an email coming in from nyu, and that was the first school I had heard back from, and that was the first, like, school that I wanted to go to that, like, I got accepted at. So, you know, over the moon, told everyone I was going to nyu. It was done deal. And then I got into bu, and I was like, that's cool, but, like, obviously, I'm going to nyu. Then I got my financial aid package, and they gave me $6,000.

[06:08] DEBORAH BLISS: NYU did.

[06:09] JOSHUA BLISS: NYU gave me $6,000 towards their, like, $75,000 tuition. Right, right. And then I got BU's, and BU's was much more substantial, so I was like, I'm going to bu.

[06:28] DEBORAH BLISS: So you moved in in January, then?

[06:31] JOSHUA BLISS: Yep. So then, yeah, so it was, like, January 3rd or 4th, I started at BU, and I think, yeah, I, like, moved in. I think since I was a transfer student, they, like, let you move in a couple days early. So I think it was, like, classes started maybe on the 8th or something. So I had a couple days to explore Boston.

[06:48] DEBORAH BLISS: What did you do when you were exploring Boston? Like, did you. Do you remember those first few days? Like, what you. What you saw, what you thought, what.

[06:57] JOSHUA BLISS: So I think I probably hung out with Sarah Jane and Jesse, like, one of the days just to, you know, just because they already under. Like, they already knew the city. They'd been there for a long time. And then I think the rest of it was sort of just like, exploring. Like, exploring the city and, like, the campus and, like, unpacking.

[07:19] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. So Sarah and Jesse are cousins up there. They had been established up in Boston. And then you. When you moved up in there, did you have, like, a close relationship with them before you went up there?

[07:31] JOSHUA BLISS: So, no, we weren't really close at all. We. Realistically, the only time I feel like we had, like, a close. Like, any sort of, like, close experience before that was Sarah Jane worked in admissions, like, in admissions already. And so when I was looking at schools, our brother Sam, our sister Esther and I went to Boston. And then we, like, went on, like, a college. Like a college visit trip. And then. Yeah. So Sarah Jane had to work. But I remember Jesse since he was. He was in a band, and so he played night shows. He was available during the day, and so he drove us around to, like, all the colleges and that. And then we. I. You know, I got to see them all. And, yeah, I remember we saw. I think it was. We went to Harvard. It was like, BC Tufts and bu.

[08:20] DEBORAH BLISS: Mm. And then when you were with so you were. You were in Boston for. Do you remember how many years you were there?

[08:28] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, so I was there for only. I think it was only two and a half years. It was because I was only. Yeah, I was only in college for three. And then for that first semester, I was in SUNY Oswego.

[08:40] DEBORAH BLISS: And then you were in Madrid, too.

[08:42] JOSHUA BLISS: Oh, that's true. I was. So only two years, because one of those semesters I was studying in Madrid.

[08:46] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. Do you have any, like, memories or, you know, funny stories or characters from your time in Boston?

[08:56] JOSHUA BLISS: So, yeah, I remember the. So they put all of the transfer kids and international kids in one dorm. So the second semester we went there, it was like, on my floor, there were like. Yeah, there were. It was like, three. Three girls who had transferred the previous year and then. Or like the previous semester and then just a bunch of French foreign exchange students. I was told that the semester before it was filled with foreign exchange students from Madrid, but I had missed them, which actually would have lined up perfectly for when I was studying abroad, but it's all right. And then also, I remember my roommate the first semester was a foreign exchange student from Saudi Arabia. Um, but, yeah, that was a lot of fun. And I feel like that was a huge culture shock. Sort of just from going to. Yeah, from going from, like, again, upstate New York, being there for the, you know, my entire life, and then going to SUNY Oswego, which is like. SUNY Oswego is actually where we had my high school graduation. So it's very close to home.

[10:16] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah.

[10:17] JOSHUA BLISS: And so then immediately being with just almost like, international kids and then people who've, like, transferred. Transferred in was like. Yeah, it was a huge culture shock. It was a lot of fun. But I remember it was the. The first time I, like, really hung out with the French kids. It was. So. I started in January. I was. So. It was, you know, in the middle of winter. It was the first or second week of classes. We had a snow day, and I hadn't seen the email yet. I was just, like, you know, about to go to sleep or, like, watching Netflix or something, because I had class in the morning. And then I just get, like, a knock on the door. And it was Guillaume. Like, Like, Guillaume. Just, like, I opened the door, and he's just like, classes are. He's like, classes are canceled. We're drinking. I was like, okay, I guess, you know, and then actually when I was studying, and then that was a lot of fun because that sort of, like, again, having so much exposure to international Students. When I was. Again, when I was, like, studying abroad, I did a. Like, a weekend trip to France, and I hung out with, like, Yeoman Sebastian and, like, all of, like, that whole crew again. It was just. And it's sort of like, that is not an experience or, like, that's not something I would have had otherwise.

[11:38] DEBORAH BLISS: Right, right. And then. Do you. I know you were in Boston with our cousins, Sarah and Jesse when they had their first child, and you have been an integral part of the little one's life. You were able to, like, really do some. Some things with Liam, right?

[12:01] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, it was. It was really cute when he was. I don't. You're. You're the preschool teacher. I don't know what age people start talking when he was, like, first talking, getting, like, you know, accustomed to the world, and he was, like, talking about, like, the familial unit. He's like, you know, he's like, there's the mama, the papa, and the Joshi. He's like, every family, you know, there was. There was a Joshi involved.

[12:30] DEBORAH BLISS: Right.

[12:33] JOSHUA BLISS: But, yeah, it was. Yeah, being a part of, like, it was really interesting actually, seeing the shift in Sarah and Jesse from, like, you know, bachelors to, like, parents. Yeah. Because when I first got there, they had. Yeah, they still had their house that was in their house, like, their apartment in Brookline. Jesse was still playing, like, shows four times a week, was just, like, you know, playing video games during the day. And then he, like, went back to. And it was like, yeah, they. Then he, like, started going back to school, like, started learning ultrasound and, like, became a. Right. Became an ultrasound. Like, became an ultrasound tech. Like, got a day job.

[13:24] DEBORAH BLISS: Right, right.

[13:26] JOSHUA BLISS: And it was like. Yeah. And then he would, like, pick me up. I remember he would pick me up in the morning, drive me to his house. I would babysit. I would babysit Liam for the day until he was, you know, until Jesse came back when he ever. He finished his, like, however many patients. Yeah, that was a. It was a fun transition to see.

[13:42] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. Do you remember doing any, like, quintessentially, like, Boston or Massachusetts things when you were there? Like, do you remember, Like, I. I know I've gone up and, like, cheered on the marathon and, like, were you able to do anything like that while you were there?

[13:57] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, so the. There are a couple things, and then one that I'm really bummed I missed. So there was. So one of my friends had an apartment that was, like, in a high rise right next to Fenway park, which is where the Boston Red Sox Plays. And so there were definitely times where we'd, like, just, like, be at his house, like, and just, like, watching the games from, like, from above, which was really cool. Best seat in the house.

[14:30] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. Yeah.

[14:31] JOSHUA BLISS: And then also, anytime people came to visit, we would have to, like, you know, go to Quincy Market, go through the Boston Commons, walk down Newbury Street. Like, there were, like, all those. All those specific places we had to hit. But then I remember the Patriots won the super bowl while I was in, like. While I was going to bu but it was the semester that I was in Madrid, so they canceled classes the next day because no one was gonna. No one was gonna do anything. And I just remember. So whatever the time difference is, so the super bowl probably ends at 10. That feels. That seems about right. And then. Sure, that's it. Right. I think. And then Madrid is six hours ahead, so it was, like, 4:00am and I just remember being, like, on my phone, hitting refresh, like, trying to, like, see the stats because I couldn't get a live stream. And so, like, I was like, they're down. They're down. And then it was again. This is a. When Russell Wilson threw the interception in the end zone, and the Patriots won. And I remember freaking out and then not being able to do anything or really celebrate because it was 4:00am Well.

[15:53] DEBORAH BLISS: I know that we. So you're the youngest of us. You're the youngest. You're one of seven. You know, we were able to go up and see you in Boston. You weren't that far away, which we all loved. How has it been, though, growing up being like, I don't want to call you the baby because I'm trying not to call you the baby, but the youngest of the crew. Right?

[16:20] JOSHUA BLISS: I think it definitely helped me avoid certain pitfalls. Like, I won't name names because I heard this might be on public record. But, you know, if I was like, you know, if I was in middle school and I had older siblings who'd be like, oh, like, would be drinking a beer and be like, have some beer, whatever. And I would, like, take a sip and be like, oh, this is gross, or what? And, like, but, like, I wouldn't have to sneak it, or I feel like, you know, if mom and dad are very. You know, mom and dad are very religious, and there'd be. You know, we'd have to go to church multiple. Multiple times a week. And then, like, an older sibling, again, won't mention any names. Would just be like, eh, you know, don't pay attention to that. Do what you want? I feel like it helped me get different world views from a very young age. Also being, you know, 16 and having, like, having you let me stay with, like, being able to stay with you for, like a summer and, like, live in New York City, like, that's nothing. That's something that no one in, like, no one in my high school was able to do. That was, like, that was a great experience. Yeah. And I also think it was interesting being the youngest and having there be such a big age gap between all of us. There was a lot of, like, over the holidays, everyone would be home and it would be wild and there'd be so many. There'd be like, so many blisses around. But most of the time it would either just be like, for four years it was just me, and then for nine years it was just me and Esther at home. So I still feel like a lot of, like, a lot of my childhood. Although everyone was like, you know, I obviously have so many siblings, it did still feel like I got a lot of one in one, like one on one time with mom and dad.

[18:28] DEBORAH BLISS: Was that a good thing or a bad thing? No.

[18:32] JOSHUA BLISS: It was a good thing. They really chilled out by the seventh kid.

[18:35] DEBORAH BLISS: I feel like by the second kid. Thanks. Seventh.

[18:40] JOSHUA BLISS: I feel like maybe not so much. You've really paved the way.

[18:47] DEBORAH BLISS: What do you think? Is there anything that you would, you know, want to tell, like, a younger version of yourself? Is there anything you would want to, like, advise them if you could go back in time or maybe give advice to your future potential grandkids, grand nieces?

[19:06] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah. Take the SATs on time. And then again, if these are. I mean, just. Yeah. In my formative years, I feel like, take the SATs on time, figure out or, like, take a minor. Don't, like, just pigeonhole yourself into, like, one sort of thing.

[19:31] DEBORAH BLISS: Why do you say that?

[19:34] JOSHUA BLISS: I feel like I just sort of did economics. I didn't. And I feel like if I had, like, a computer science or like, something else, it would have been better. I feel like that could have really helped me. I think in, like, in college, I didn't really seek out any sort of, like, what, like, any sort of guidance. I feel like I didn't, like, take advantage of, like, the, like, what was there and like, what I could have used. Like, I'm sure there were, like, mentors and tutors and, like, you know, guidance counselors, career counselors that I like, could have gone to that I didn't. They also have a $7 million, like, gym that I only Went to for the last semester I was there. Like, I feel like I didn't optimize my time, but I also would tell, like, I would tell my past self not. Not to, like, wish your life away, not to, like, keep pushing to the next phase of life and try to live in the moment. Try to, like, appreciate where you are. Because, yeah, looking back, you're going to be like, okay, I got, you know, I got through all of it quickly. I'm where I want to be. That's all great, but, like, I feel like I did a lot and I lived in a lot of places, but I don't know if I necessarily, like, did the most while I was there.

[20:57] DEBORAH BLISS: Right, right. Yeah. And I think that's. Some of that is just living through it, I think experience for myself, from my opinion and from my life experience. I think some of that you just have to realize, like, if you keep on going to this thing, next thing, that thing, then you're not necessarily enjoying where you are.

[21:21] JOSHUA BLISS: But I feel like, yeah, I feel like that was when I was in California. Like when I lived in California, that was a lot of it. I feel like that was even more so the case because I always assumed it was going to be temporary. I was always trying to get to New York, and I feel like. So I never really let myself, like, put down any sort of roots and like, yeah, I feel like. Or like, get involved in the community or like, really try to, like, make close friends while I was out there. Cause I was just like, oh, it's going to be like, I know I'm trying to leave. I don't know when it's going to be. I don't want to, like, put all that effort into where I am right now.

[22:04] DEBORAH BLISS: How long were you there?

[22:07] JOSHUA BLISS: I was in California. I moved in the beginning of January, so it was another, like, two and a half years. So I moved in the beginning of January 2016, I believe. Is that right? I don't know. Sounds right. That sounds right. Hold on. Let's do the math. Graduating 26. No, 2017. So January 2017. And then I moved in September of 2019.

[22:37] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. So like two and a half years.

[22:40] JOSHUA BLISS: So I was there for a long time. And just the whole time, I didn't think I was gonna be there for so long. So I just wasn't, like, wouldn't let myself anchor.

[22:47] DEBORAH BLISS: Right, Right. But the thing is, I think you anchored whether you wanted to or not.

[22:57] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, that's. That's true. I am. I'm still getting. I'm still Getting calls, asking about, like, asking questions from my old job that I left over a year and a half ago.

[23:12] DEBORAH BLISS: Well, I also think, too, when there has been a big event, even during COVID you flew out and you were there for, like, everyone who needed to be there in California, so.

[23:23] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, that's true.

[23:25] DEBORAH BLISS: So I think you. You anchor even when you don't think you're gonna.

[23:30] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah.

[23:33] DEBORAH BLISS: What do you think? And so far, in your 25 years, what are you the most proud of?

[23:40] JOSHUA BLISS: So I got this question. It really threw me off. I didn't know, but I feel like. And I don't necessarily want my biggest, like, for me to be the proudest of, like, career accomplishments, but it. It meant a lot to me to be able to move to New York and, like, get a job without having to have some sort of, like, internal connection, so. Cause when I was. When I was 16, I started working at, like, Washington Market, which was obviously where you worked and was the job you got me over the summer. And then I had a job as, like, a brand ambassador for, like, Handy, the cleaning company, which I got from, like, one of my friends in college. She was like, hey, you'd be good at this. Like, And I ended up interviewing with my friend. Like, it was. I had the job. And then when I moved to San Diego, I was working for a cousin, Sasha, so, like, for his medical practice. And the whole time I was gaining skills, and I, you know, I would like to think that I did a good job, but I feel like I was never being, like. I felt like I could never really be critiqued or, like, judged according to, like, strictly according to merit. I felt like it was always, like, always on a curve. So being able to move here and, like, get a job and, you know, be there for a year and some time at this point, but, like, you know, do fairly well and, like, do it on my own. I feel proud of that.

[25:17] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. Yeah. I know it's been a really odd year, but do you. That's an understatement. Do you have, like, any, like, aspirations? I mean, things that you want just, like, long term, short term? Do you have, like, a big, like, hope for yourself?

[25:39] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah. So I think getting a, you know, finding a better. A better work life balance, spending, like, getting to spend more time in nature are both things I aspire, like, aspire towards. I also definitely would love to go back to school, get my mba, and then eventually I would like to be able to start some sort of business if I partnered with our brother Andrew. That'd be great. I feel like that'd be fun, and I think that's sort of. Yeah. And then I also want to be able to travel to all six continents before I'm 30.

[26:28] DEBORAH BLISS: Oh, my gosh.

[26:30] JOSHUA BLISS: But I feel like I'm mostly. At this point, I only have. I only have Australia and Asia left.

[26:36] DEBORAH BLISS: Okay.

[26:37] JOSHUA BLISS: So it's not. It shouldn't be too hard. I think I can. I think I can do it.

[26:43] DEBORAH BLISS: Oh, right. Yeah. I was thinking about. Because you were supposed to go to Zambia this year and you didn't go. And I was like, oh, you didn't get to Africa. No, we went to Morocco.

[26:52] JOSHUA BLISS: We went to Morocco together.

[26:59] DEBORAH BLISS: But that is. I mean, I think it's good. And I think, you know, you have time, you have assets, you have skills. You're going to be able to get anything you want to do. Are there things you want to. Before I. Is there anything you'd want to, like, pearls of wisdom you want to pass on? I know you talked about doing your SATs on time. Is there anything else you thought you would just, like, want to share from your 25 years.

[27:27] JOSHUA BLISS: Growing up? Doesn't feel like you think it will. And I'm not an adult. I'm 25, but I feel like when I was younger, I thought 25 was an adult. And I feel the same as I've always felt. I mean, I'm sure I've changed. I've gained life experience. But you don't feel like, yeah, it just doesn't feel the way you think it will. Just you always sort of feel the same. You always are sort of, like, still always unsure of yourself and, like, that's just how life is. I don't know.

[28:02] DEBORAH BLISS: At least at 25.

[28:03] JOSHUA BLISS: At least at 25, hopefully I get more sure of myself. I don't know.

[28:07] DEBORAH BLISS: But you probably will a little bit. You probably will. Yeah. I was just having a conversation with one of our family members about this, about how I'm at 41, a little bit more confident than I was at 25 or 35. I feel like by the time I'm 80, I'm just not gonna care.

[28:30] JOSHUA BLISS: I know. I talked to Dad a few years ago, and he's like. He said something similar. It was sort of like. He was like, yeah. He's like, I don't feel old. He's like, but when I look in the mirror, he's like. I'm like, oh, I'm old. He's like, it just sort of, you know, things creep up on you, and they just happen faster than you Expect.

[28:51] DEBORAH BLISS: Is there anything you want to ask me?

[28:54] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah. Where's my list?

[28:57] DEBORAH BLISS: Oh, man.

[28:59] JOSHUA BLISS: No, I just. I have some notes, so. Yeah, so I'm. So, again, there's a gaggle of us. You know, there's seven kids, but I'm the youngest, so there's always been the same seven. What was it like being towards the top? What was it like having, you know, every couple years, just, like, a new baby around?

[29:24] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. I think mom did a really good job of making us, you know, being in early childhood, this is a conversation that I have with families a lot about a new baby coming in. But I think mom always did a really good job of making us excited about the baby. What was harder for me? So there's five boys and two girls. It's my older brother Sam, and then me, and then my brother Tim, my brother Andrew, my brother Joe, my sister Esther, and then Josh. What was harder for me is when I kept on being boys. It was fine that it was a baby, but the boy thing, like, they just. My brothers are great now. Growing up, there was a lot of hair pulling. There's a lot of toy breaking, and. Yeah, so that was different. But I do think that is one thing, for me, at least, I can say. And I know there might be different opinions across the board, but for me, it was usually fine. Like, when there was another baby, it was just mom and dad did a really good job of getting us excited about the new little one coming and, you know, making it just. This is another member of the family and we should welcome them in and love them, even if it isn't exactly what you wanted.

[30:51] JOSHUA BLISS: Oh, and then I had another one. Where is it? And it's related. I really just gotta keep my notes up. Oh, do you feel like. Yeah. Do you feel like you had to, like, grow up quicker because you were, like, given more responsibilities because you had to watch so many children? Or, like, mom and dad would be like, I'm burnt out. There's so many of us. Dad's working so many jobs. Like, do you feel like you lost some of your childhood? A little bit.

[31:22] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. Yes. Short answer. And it wasn't. I think. I think some people in our extended family had a harder time with that. But I definitely think that it was especially, like, towards the end. The end of the children arrival, because, you know, mom would always also babysit for her nieces and nephews. So it wasn't just seven of us. It was, like, 10 kids in the house, and then mom would have to run errands, so she would ask Sam and me to be in charge and to take care of the kids. And Sam would just be like, okay, I'm going to my room. You know, just so it was a lot of like. I think the good thing about that is now, you know, I am in early childhood. I do work with little kids. I'm fine. I've, you know, I've taught two year olds, I've taught three year olds. I've had children with 18 months in my care. I have children, you know, first grade, second grade. I don't have a problem with that. But for a while I did, you know, I did have some big feelings about having to take care of so many children at, you know, 13, 14, you know, making sure everyone was actually like, if I have my brain now about it, like, I would want to scream just because of, like, the care that I would have to do, like the diapers that I would have to change. Just making sure, like, kids didn't eat anything, you know, didn't break anything, nothing, you know, returned them to the parents, how they came. I think that there was a growing up that you had to do quicker. I will say, like, the plus side of it is I've made a career of it and it's made me really good at my job.

[33:03] JOSHUA BLISS: I have a.

[33:05] DEBORAH BLISS: What we talked about at work one time is I have a good ping. Like. Like, I ping very quickly when there's about to be, like, something that went down. Because I feel like y'all would constantly do stuff that was about to go down, like, so I think that, that, that helps. But it did make me. It did make you grow up a little bit quicker. Um, I've talked to someone also recently just about being able to just cook my own meals very young. Like, just being able to just, like, use the stove. And that was okay because mom and dad just really couldn't. They couldn't keep track of all of us. Like, there was just too much going on. So. But being able to do that and being able to. I remember, like, frying eggs in, like, you know, single digits because I was allowed to and able to reach the stove, you know, So I think I did grow up quick. But I also, like, I say, like to think that it led to good skills that I have now.

[34:01] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, bring it back to growing up quickly. So when dad lost his business and we lost our house, I was teeny tiny. I. It did not really affect me at all. Like, as far back as I could remember, Dad's been a computer programmer. Like surveying was something we did on the weekends. Just sort of. Yeah. What was that like, what was the. Like how. Because, you know, there's a 16 year age gap, so you would have been 16, 17, so you would have been like in your formative years. Like, how much of that were you shielded from? How much of it like, affected you? Sort of like what was going on in your mind at that point?

[34:55] DEBORAH BLISS: Yeah. So I think when I was younger, it was a little bit easier. The older I got, the more aware I was of just like the money issues that we had in the house. Just like things that were going on. I think was very aware when the business went under and dad, like when the bank foreclosed on our house and we had to move. Like, just because you can't not be aware of what's going on. I think in. I think it definitely shaped how I viewed stuff. I think I was aware of what was going on, obviously, and I internalized a lot of it. But I also think my dad was really good too, of just hiding his own feelings. We're going to pull through. Because he always had this, we're going to be okay. Mom too. They're pretty positive about it. I found out years later, dad didn't sleep. He stopped sleeping for that period. I had no idea he had stopped sleeping. Like, there were just things that happened, but they had this affront, like, this is happening. We're going to be okay. We're going to figure it out. Even though sometimes you didn't feel like it was going to be okay, but that, like I say that they were also kind of dealing with their own fallout from that. I think full, like long term. It's definitely made me a little bit more, you know, we've talked about this. A little bit more anxious about money, a little bit more, like worried about, like, if anything little happens, like, I think this is it, you know, this is it. We're gonna lose our apartment. Even though we have like XYZ savings. You know, I think there is like that. That I kind of have to work through. But I think I was definitely aware of what was going on. And they were making. Because Sam had one more year left of high school and they didn't want to change high schools for him because we didn't know whether we were going to stay local or move. They actually had made a contingency plan for him that I knew about. They had asked one of our close neighbors if he could stay with them for that year. So I did know that there was like a plan so they. I think, like. Like I say, they showed us what as much as they could, but kept it as much as possible. Like a good. A good face, a good face for it. So. Yeah. But, Josh, thank you for taking the time to talk to me.

[37:24] JOSHUA BLISS: Yeah, of course. This was a lot of fun.