Dennis Lancaster and Carol Silvey

[00:01] DENNIS LANCASTER: So, I'm Dennis Lancaster. I am the chancellor at Missouri State University, West Plains, and I am 59 years old. Today is Friday, May 6, here in the Ozarks, Missouri, and I am with my colleague and good friend, Carol Silvey.

[00:18] CAROL SILVEY: I'm carol Silvey. I'm 76, almost 77. It is Friday, May 6, 2022. I'm in the Ozarks with my friend, mentor, colleague, doctor Dennis Lancaster, the chancellor of the MSU West Plains campus in West Plains, Missouri.

[00:39] DENNIS LANCASTER: So, Carol, let's talk about this place that we love, our campus here, Missouri State University.

[00:46] CAROL SILVEY: It is a good subject.

[00:48] DENNIS LANCASTER: It is a good subject. And so I've been with the campus for. For 30 years, almost 30 years. And so when I came in 1992, that was really a pivot point in my mind. But you had been here for what, 20, some 22 years or more prior to that.

[01:07] CAROL SILVEY: Yes.

[01:07] DENNIS LANCASTER: So what were the early days like?

[01:09] CAROL SILVEY: Okay, I wasn't here when day one came. I was in the community, so I was familiar with the program. And as a graduate and alumni of MSU at that time, Southwest Missouri State Teachers College, I did know that several of the state schools in the state of Missouri had been commissioned by the legislature to put out a campus that was at least several miles removed from their parent campus. And I think the verbiage was pretty general at that time. And Missouri state SMS was approached by Representative Granville Vaughan. And he really had wanted a campus and college in West Plains, because we're 2 hours from everywhere.

[02:00] DENNIS LANCASTER: Right.

[02:00] CAROL SILVEY: And he thought that that would just really revitalize and bring energy and not only education, but economic development to West Plains. So West Plains was selected as the off site campus for southwest Missouri state at that time. So in 1963, we're about ready to have another birthday. We had our first classes.

[02:23] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. How easy was that to do? Do you have an idea?

[02:28] CAROL SILVEY: I did know Granville, and personally, and he did a lot of wheeling and dealing, particularly with the representatives to the east, beginning in Oregon county and then the one in Shannon county. And then I believe he had a really good rapport with the one in Butler county, which that's really kind of not close to any of the other regional state schools. So he really did build an alliance down in this area.

[02:55] DENNIS LANCASTER: Right. So if I remember right, we started with 111 students, I believe that's correct. September of 1963. Started at the.

[03:02] CAROL SILVEY: Some of them are still alive.

[03:03] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yes, that's right. Right. Started at the high school.

[03:06] CAROL SILVEY: Yes.

[03:06] DENNIS LANCASTER: And I think there were three classrooms or something at the high school.

[03:09] CAROL SILVEY: And there was a trailer outside of.

[03:11] DENNIS LANCASTER: Oh, wow.

[03:12] CAROL SILVEY: The trailer was where our offices were located, and our classes all began at 04:00 and went until 10:00 and a.

[03:21] DENNIS LANCASTER: Lot of excitement around that, if I remember some of the newspaper accounts and other things. A lot of excitement around that event.

[03:27] CAROL SILVEY: The first, he was called deed at that time was Doctor Bill Bedford. And doctor Bedford was a scholarly man, an english professor by trade, and he was located here. He applied for the job and was hired, moved his family here, and he would go around to the various coffee shops the first year it was operational and say, now, how are we doing? Is there anything we need to be doing differently? So he was a really nice blend between the university and the local community.

[04:02] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure, sure. So I remember those early days when I guess had been at the high school for several, several years, and then opportunity to go to its own campus, its own building. And that was made possible by the Kellett family.

[04:17] CAROL SILVEY: Correct. 1974. So really, eleven years that we met from four till 10:00 and I know I had many students who drove from Shannon county, which is a good hour drive plus. So they'd get out of class at 10:00 and drive home. Most of them were substituting and that kind of thing. So they'd work on. They have classes on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, typically. So then they'd get up and go to work the next morning, and then do their homework and come back in a couple of nights.

[04:54] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure, sure.

[04:55] CAROL SILVEY: That was a difficult time.

[04:57] DENNIS LANCASTER: Oh, I would imagine so.

[04:59] CAROL SILVEY: That when we went to day classes, that was kind of an interesting concept, because then we picked up a number of mothers, and probably fathers, too. But they were primarily mothers, 70%, if I recall correctly, who could have their children in school. And so they would get to have the opportunity to live their dream and get a college education.

[05:22] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. So most of our students were, at that time, were non traditional. We would say they had older students. Yeah. Wanting to do something different than what they had.

[05:31] CAROL SILVEY: And the largest majority of them at that time really were going into teacher education. And so, in my head, one of the basic reasons that, and the reason I think our campus survived when none of the other off site campuses survived was the fact that we met a real need down here in south central Missouri to provide teachers.

[05:54] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah. And I think it's still, you know, today, it's still a big reason we exist. And we draw a lot of students interested in education, maybe in business, agriculture. And as we're trying to meet the regional needs, which still goes back to 1963, when we're trying to do it.

[06:11] CAROL SILVEY: I think that's honestly one of the reasons not only have we survived, but have grown is because the various chancellors and or needs, depending on the time period, have really tried to meet those university needs. What would you see as the need that we're best addressing today?

[06:30] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, I think there's, I mean, it's varied, and so we're looking a lot more toward workforce development, which is more of a trendy word, I suppose, that we might say today. And that is, what can our students achieve through a certificate program, short term, or a two year degree program that would give them the skills for jobs that would be available in our region or elsewhere. But at the same time, we continue to provide that pathway for students who are wanting to go on to get a four year degree, that bachelor's degree, either at the Springfield campus or another, another university that's around us in teaching, in medicine, in law. I mean, all those things we might think of that maybe a typical college education.

[07:23] CAROL SILVEY: I was having lunch with someone today who is a supporter, and out of the mention that I was coming to do storycorps, and then we were going to talk about the university, and they said, well, be sure and talk about what an impact the campus location has had on our community. And so you might want to kind of talk a little bit about why our campus has made such a difference with its location.

[07:51] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah, I think because we are the only public higher education institution in Missouri within 100 miles. And we draw, actually from that hundred miles, believe it or not, that we've helped to transform, I think, our region in many ways. So in 1963, I was born in 1962, so I don't remember a whole lot of 1963, but what I kind of know of the area, we were progressive, but still low higher education attainment, we would say today, very impoverished area as it still is, but not like it was. And so I think we've had an impact there. I think we've had an impact in the number of industries and agencies and kinds of businesses and kinds of activity that take place within, not just West Plains, but within the region. And then, you know, it provides this unique place, not trying to be everything to everybody, but a unique place that tries to connect with regional needs, regional desires, and for students to be able to come to college. And as I often say, it's nothing that some of our students will go someplace else. I mean, if we're not here, they may not go to college, period. So it's affordable, it's accessible, and hopefully we provide that education, that training that will improve the quality of life for them and their families.

[09:26] CAROL SILVEY: I remember the first graduation class we had, which was in the nineties, if I recall correctly, in nineties, something out of the. It was probably a little over 100 students who were enrolled in school at that time. But of those graduates, 90 something percent were the first people in their class who had ever attended any kind of post secondary education. Since we're getting ready to do graduation here this month, what would you guess the number would be now?

[09:56] DENNIS LANCASTER: I don't think it's 90%. So I think either we've made some headway, or at least in the state of Missouri or in the United States, that we've made some headway, probably at half. We do continue to serve a large number of first generation students, and that's important for them and their families, for sure. So back in the sixties and seventies, Carol, I know that for a period of time into the eighties, it was a question of whether every year, whether the campus was going to continue or not, whether there was going to be money appropriated for the campus or not. So what was that like? First of all, because your job was there, but what was that like? And then what changed?

[10:44] CAROL SILVEY: It was scary, because at that time, we were given a one year contract, and it really was a one year contract. I mean, after you're hired and you became an assistant professor, then you just automatically assumed you were going to become an associate professor and so on. But at that time, you really did catch your breath in May to determine whether or not there was going to be money, because the money was funneled to the SMS system. And at that time, the provost was Doctor Duane Meyer, and he had never been a terribly large supporter of the program. But by that point in time, Arthur Mallory had become president of the university, and his family had been involved in public education for years and years. And so Arthur Mallory, in my opinion, is probably the president who was in the right place at the right time to keep this campus open and to see the value of post secondary education in terms of the economy and the culture. So I think Arthur Mallory's being president was the factor that kept this campus alive and literally surviving.

[12:04] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. Well, I know during that time, and I do recall, you know, from newspaper accounts and just living in the area, that, I mean, there were chili suppers and car washes and auctions, bake sales and bake sales, and, you know, groups raising money to help support the campus. And as I look at things today, while we're not having to do that, really, there are times I think we might.

[12:31] CAROL SILVEY: That's called though a gala or a fascist, right?

[12:34] DENNIS LANCASTER: We might do something a little different.

[12:35] CAROL SILVEY: It's a little updation, right?

[12:37] DENNIS LANCASTER: But still all of that is the basis on which we exist. And because of that, I mean, we are integral part of the community. But the community is an integral part of the university.

[12:47] CAROL SILVEY: One of our previous chancellors, Doctor Marvin Luetjen always talked to that we were a community and we really are because we have such good relations that we work to do that. I think between the university and the community and they bring their needs to us. I think the well need program is a good example of that. This is a need that's relevant for industry, it's relevant for our farmers. It's so relevant. And I think that came out of a community discussion with the school administration. You know, I think it's the factor that has kept us alive.

[13:25] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah, I agree. And too, when I speak to folks and I talk about our partnerships and the importance of those partnerships and those consortia and other aspects of what we're trying to do, part of that is it's one being a very good partner. And I say we want to be an authentic partner. In other words, I need to understand exactly what you need. You need to understand what we need and why we're trying to do this together and the benefits to both of us and be able to support in both ways. The other part is idea of relevancy. Because when we're working with Ozarks healthcare or we're working with Leonardo DRs or another industry then, or working with families as we're beginning this autism program, while we may have theory and information and maybe the expertise of delivering courses and programs that will bring students to a different level, we're not always on the cutting edge of things. And we don't exactly know what's exactly what's needed at DRS. When they're talking about in welding, what do they need in that high tech defense manufacturer? What will they need at Ozarks healthcare? What are they doing on the floor that our nurses need to know? And then in terms of our autism program, I mean, I don't have someone that's very close to me who's autistic, but you're lucky. But I am because so many people are touched by that. So I need to know. I mean, we need to know as we're developing those programs so that. That connectivity with the community is essential for us.

[15:01] CAROL SILVEY: Not just the connectivity. I think, Dennis, I also think the trust that most of the chancellors and the faculty and staff work every day to address is the trust. And it's a two way trust. They have to trust that when we're offering a program, that it's relevant, that it's applicable, that it's accurate, that the best delivery is the best that it can be. And by the same token, we have to trust that when they bring recommendations to us for change or new programs, that we listen to them. So I think trust is another tier of that, maybe another skin, if you were peeling off the onion.

[15:41] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, trust does make things work smoother.

[15:46] CAROL SILVEY: What is, Dennis, you think the most important change that has happened to this campus since 1963?

[16:02] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, we were separately accredited in 1993. So we were separately accredited from the Springfield campus. So prior to that time, our accreditation, our ability to offer programs and provide financial aid, all of that's needed for that stamp of quality, if you will, all came under the Springfield campus. So whenever we sought separate accreditation, then as this two year associate degree granting institution, it really did say in many respects, you've come into your own. Now, you may not be all mature and grown up, but certainly you're an adolescent and this may be what you want to be. This is where you're headed. And so I think that was critical. But there's some other things I think you talked about Doctor Lougene and both of us worked under Doctor Lougene And his vision beyond of what we were, beyond that residence center, beyond just that branch campus, was critical for all of us and critical in the community. And I know 30 years later, a lot that comes out of my mouth sounds like Doctor Lougene just because I hope we can still have that vision for our community.

[17:22] CAROL SILVEY: And he truly did have a vision because our campus facility expansion developed at that time. Our programs in athletics began at that time. The good relationship with state legislatures began at that time. There are so many things that happened that occurred during that administration and time period, as well as the accreditation. And you wonder, I guess, if it's a chicken or an egg. I mean, you do wonder which one of those factors was the precipitating factor of the next one and vice versa, or if it was just a circle that happened.

[18:00] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. Well, you know, I think institutions are organic and there are systems in place and we move through cycles and there are times for growth and there are times that it's just not such a good time.

[18:15] CAROL SILVEY: Well, you know, as a member of the community, when you go into a local school system, you know, many, I used to, not so much anymore, but I knew the people's faces because they had been our students. And when you would go to Ozark Medical center or even Texas county, the nursing staff were people that you knew because they'd met our students. So you get constantly renewed about how important the campus is and what an impact it's had in the culture and the economy of our region.

[18:53] DENNIS LANCASTER: Right. Well, our first degree being the nursing degree, and that coming in the 1980s, again under the Springfield accreditation. But for us to have our own degree and for it to be that nursing degree immediately says something about us addressing the needs of the area, because at the same time, what was the West Plains Memorial Hospital, I guess, at the time was, and then later Ozarks Medical center and now Ozarks healthcare, but coming on as well, growing and becoming a greater part of peoples lives and a very needed part of peoples lives in this area. So we kind of. We were able to reinforce each other. I mean, we're able to help each other.

[19:37] CAROL SILVEY: As an old Ozark historian, I'm many times asked why West Plains has survived so well when perhaps Thayer has not or Ava has not, or Alton or whatever, usually whatever community you're visiting. And the answer, I've always felt, and I've been able to document it, I think, is that we have had individuals who are residents of our community who strongly believe in the attributes and the essentiality of education, and whether they're in the legislature giving us support. Like Travis Morrison with the nursing program, there were other individuals. I just happened to know that Travis was really critical in the development of that, that those individuals are looking at those programs as ways to continue to improve their community, enrich the lives of their people, and to grow to the next level. And West Plains had the first public library, and it was in the home of a local family. And to me, that's all a part of that same. I don't know whether it's a sample environment or what it is exactly, but it's been an attribute that's been around West Plains for a long period of time.

[20:57] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. Sure.

[20:58] CAROL SILVEY: And we were set up to do the seven counties. Are we still seven counties?

[21:03] DENNIS LANCASTER: We are. It's not. It's not set in stone kind of thing. And so sometimes we use that, and sometimes we want to talk about more of an original kind of thing, and sometimes we want to talk about, it's more of a statewide mission with a variety of things that we might do. So we've had that luxury over time because we're not a community college. And so I always have to retell that story. It's, you know, we were, when we were created in 1963, there was a reason that it had to be forced because other, you know, community colleges were being formed around the country and even in the state. But for us, there was not that ses, valuation that would be able to support a college, and it was just, again, an impoverished area. So we still are not a community college as such. We certainly look like one sometimes, and sometimes we don't.

[21:55] CAROL SILVEY: There was an individual who is a political candidate, and there were a group of individuals together this week, and they asked why we did not become a community college. And the answer is, I said, it's the same one. It's always been. We do not have sufficient tax capital to support that kind of. But honestly, the fact that we have been a part of a four year institution now a doctoral granting institution, has really, in my opinion, Dennis, and I think you'd concur, as do many others. It really has been the factor that may have kept us alive. It may not just be the programs, but there are so many facets of the academic environment that are provided to us by the Springfield campus.

[22:50] DENNIS LANCASTER: I think that's true. And the more that I interact with our Springfield colleagues, even today, the Springfield academic administration and some of their new colleagues, some of the new, I guess, mentees were on campus and trying to understand, because it's very different for them, understanding what our campus is and how we try to. But in that conversation was, well, what could we do? Do together, really good discussions. And I'm really hopeful about that relationship. And, you know, you're the president and the chair of the board of governors, and you see things, you've seen the entire system for some time now.

[23:32] CAROL SILVEY: And I think we're, I think both campuses, I think the system is better because there is a West Plains campus that really strengthens the Springfield campus. At the same time, I think, for example, the ability to introduce programs here and see how they work, I think that's a huge advantage, as well as the expertise of individuals that we certainly could not afford if we tried to hire someone who would be comparable.

[24:03] DENNIS LANCASTER: Right. So we were able to not piggy bank back, but to be able to use legal and hrtaine and all our benefits and all those kind of things that are put together. So we would not be able, yeah, we would not be able to do that by ourselves.

[24:18] CAROL SILVEY: So now that we're about to have a birthday, what does the next decade look like? Chancellor?

[24:26] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, I think the next decade will be, was going to be interesting. I mean, some of the challenges. Let's talk about the challenges ahead. The demographic challenges are just undeniable. You know, across the United States, the number of students going into college is going to drop precipitously. And that cliff is, what, about three years away, four, five years away? Five, something like that. Five, five years away. And that's just something we're going to have to face. And so how do we survive through that? And part of what we've been doing of late is to strategically think that way, to look at programs that bring people into the campus for an enrollment and what would bring someone to West Plains? So it's a little beyond what we used to do of saying, well, you know, we're so close and so affordable, but now it's, you know, what would attract them here. And so as we look at new programs, welding being one, our autism program being one, nursing continues to draw from regionally for teacher education and certainly the need for teachers, not just in our area but all across the state and in the country. But, you know, also sports. And I am, I really never thought I'd be adding sports, to be honest here.

[25:59] CAROL SILVEY: And honestly, had I said this to you 30 years ago, you and I both would have said, oh, no, we don't need to be.

[26:05] DENNIS LANCASTER: That's right. Because, you know, the two sports we have right now, it does cost us some money, but it provides benefits to us. So we're looking at instead of division one, division two, and women's softball and esports. Again, that's a sport. It's a sport, apparently. And it brings students in and then our academic programs and this autism program. So we're trying to piecemeal, how do we make this work where we live and as we face this challenge, that's going to be ahead of us. I mean, it's a challenge now because we're not a community college because we don't have that local district. So we are dependent upon state appropriations and enrollment. Those are the two things that we are dependent upon to make that operating budget. So looking ahead again, even further ahead, are we going to be more tied to workforce development? I think so. But we cannot forget the role of general education, the role of the humanities and social sciences and just who we are as people and as a society that american citizens. Yes, I mean, and that need cannot go away. And while the bandwagon may be moving toward workforce development, I think it can swing and should swing back as we, you know, we're at different times, there'll be another time that they'll be different. And if we have everybody on the plant floor. And that's not to denigrate that in any sense in any way. But you still have to have teachers, you have to have lawyers, you have to have people who are thinkers and planners and policymakers and politicians and others who are hoping, think, hopefully thinking beyond just that paycheck. But what about the next decade, the next generation?

[27:59] CAROL SILVEY: How critical will our expansion of broadband be to that development?

[28:07] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, I think it's going to be very critical for us in the Ozarks. It is, while better, it's not conducive to business that's dependent on Internet. It is difficult for our students to log in oftentimes or to download, to participate in classes oftentimes that have several bits of information that's tied to technology. So this will continue to be a big part of how we deliver programs. So the expansion of broadband, I think, within the Ozark region is going to be important for lots of reasons. A lot of obstacles to that and money and hills and trees and all of that is. But that's where we live, you know, that's how we live.

[29:03] CAROL SILVEY: What percentage of our students are from the seven county area and what percentage are from the state, roughly?

[29:10] DENNIS LANCASTER: Sure. I would say probably 85% to 90% of the students are within the seven county area.

[29:17] CAROL SILVEY: I thought that might be changing.

[29:19] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, it has over the years, I would say from how county alone is, we're about 50, 55% of all the total population. We have an increasing international number of students, and that's because of athletics for our two primary sports. But also some other people who find it attractive to come to a small campus that's tied to a university, to kind of get their feet wet and to capture the language and be able to feel safe here. The safety issue is a big deal.

[29:58] CAROL SILVEY: I know it. We have had a China campus. What do you see as happening in that regard?

[30:06] DENNIS LANCASTER: Well, that one's a problematic one. And so right now, we're the middle. They are in the midst of a pandemic, I guess we are too, in some ways. But coming off the end of, hopefully the end of one, they have felt all of this that we had, you know, we felt two years ago. So that is all closed down, still in lockdown. We have not been able to really offer courses in person. Therefore, now two full years, I don't see that changing. Probably in for another year.

[30:38] CAROL SILVEY: And we haven't had any students coming from that campus.

[30:41] DENNIS LANCASTER: We have not, nor has Springfield, and we have not been able to send students. So we typically will send anywhere from two to six of our students, to China, which has been a wonderful experience, I mean, life changing, transforming experience for them. So if that doesn't happen, I really think we need to look for other avenues, some other countries that we might, some partnerships we might be able to. To develop more of a full exchange program.

[31:08] CAROL SILVEY: Being on the board has caused me to realize how significant, bringing cultures from around the world together, how critical that is. And as an old history teacher, I knew that. But every year I live longer, the more critical it seems, because now we truly are a world society, a world economy. And the better you understand those folks on the other side of the world, the better you'll understand your future.

[31:36] DENNIS LANCASTER: No, absolutely. And as a faculty, our faculty has been focused on global awareness as being one of our key general education goals. I don't see that changing and maybe morphing a little bit, but you're right. I mean, globalization, despite things here and there and changes and wars and tariffs and whatever go with that, we cannot live in isolation, and neither can we live in isolation here in the Ozarks, as we've lived for many, many years. And so diversity is an important aspect of what we want to encourage on campus.

[32:19] CAROL SILVEY: And some real strides have been made.

[32:22] DENNIS LANCASTER: We have. I feel like we have been able to reach out into some urban areas, and again, for a lot of reasons, those students are interested in coming here, and it takes a lot of courage to come here. You know, if you're coming from St. Louis and you're an African American, I mean, where in the world is this place? And why would I want to go there? But a lot of the families that we've talked to wanting their child, their son or daughter to have a different experience than what they might be experiencing in St. Louis. And some of those experiences been very good. Some of them have not lasted. And it would be difficult, I would imagine, but as our region changes very, very slowly. But it's going to. I mean, again, the demographics show that the population and the mixture is going to change, and it rightfully so. And you just won't see a change here very quickly. Not as quickly, not as quickly, but it's going to change. And so our students need to know, how do you. How do you operate and live and think and interact and engage and teach and all those other things that we want them to do in a more diverse world? Otherwise, they're gonna be left behind, or they're certainly going to be ostracized or factionalized.

[33:37] CAROL SILVEY: Well, over the years, I've liked to think, as I'm sure you have, that you've made a tremendous impact on the lives of your students and that I think back of the impact that the university has made on my life and the opportunities it's afforded me and the opportunities of creating something that's kind of bigger than me and bigger than our community.

[34:01] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah, it is bigger than either one of us. And I was attracted to that back when I was 30 years old and came on to the university. And I remember walking by. I don't know what I was doing, but I was walking, bye, Lougene hall. And I said, I've got to work there someday. And just that feeling, because I always felt like I wanted to be an academic anyway, and just because of all that it could do. And then when you. Yeah, when you're in the classroom, you.

[34:29] CAROL SILVEY: Know, not a better place to be.

[34:31] DENNIS LANCASTER: There's not. And I, and I miss it terribly and still dream about it, even good and bad, about being in the classroom. But there is something about just engaging students and the future that lies ahead of them and not all that, you know, that's not the point. The point is to assist them in getting to a different spot. And that is, you know, that's the reason I come to work. A little different these days, but that is the reason I come to work. And, yeah, there's something wonderful about doing that.

[35:07] CAROL SILVEY: Well, it really is, as you see, and that's, I guess, the benefit of living in small, rural, central United States is that you get to see the results of the educational system. I mean, I know you do in urban areas as well, but I would guess this is just off the top. But I would guess that you see far fewer of your students if you live in an urban area than you do here. And you see the change that has happened in their life. You see the change that they create and provide for their children and their grandchildren. And it really makes you realize what a difference those leaders like Granville Vaughan and Travis Morrison did when they brought the campus here, when they opened nursing program, all those individuals and how differently we could have been if we lived in Cape Girardeau.

[36:07] DENNIS LANCASTER: Oh, absolutely.

[36:08] CAROL SILVEY: Because their center did not continue.

[36:10] DENNIS LANCASTER: That's right. Yeah. I mean, all the number of people that have been touched by a class, you know, touched by the university here, and, you know, many would not have gone on. Most of them did not go on and become great, you know, in their occupations, but. But what they did and what they have done over the years and continue to do. The nice thing about Facebook is I can see my students a lot these days and what they're doing and as their families grow and as they become teachers or as they become business people or interacting and whatever it might be, and they will return. And they say, I had one student the other day. He now is the director of an honors program of his own at a community college. And his name was Todd. And anyway, Todd gave a shout out to me as his old honors teacher, what, 1520 years ago at that time. And it's like, yeah, that was fun. It's just great to see Todd doing what he wants to do and changing lives himself. Now that's, yeah, that's why you go to work. Sure.

[37:29] CAROL SILVEY: Well, and I think about the bill and Virginia Dar Otter program and how that has taken a number of individuals each semester and really helped them to develop even more strongly and more pronounced skills and critical thinking. And I look at today's society and how important it is that individual know how to do critical thinking.

[37:52] DENNIS LANCASTER: Yeah. Just to think beyond what they've been given. And you always have to be careful with all of that. But I really want my, I always wanted my students to examine what they believe, what they've learned over the years, and then to go on and do their own thinking. And so how have we been able to do that through your kind of classes? What I taught, sending them to China or even just taking them, you know, cross state sometimes because they, yeah. To Springfield even, where, you know, that one student I had that had never been outside of the county always amazes me. But now she travels the world because she knew, she found out she could do it. And so that's what our role is. We change lives.

[38:46] CAROL SILVEY: This campus has truly made a difference.

[38:49] DENNIS LANCASTER: It has. Certainly has.

[38:50] CAROL SILVEY: And our lives and in the lives of many others.

[38:53] DENNIS LANCASTER: And many others. That's right.