Dorymar Torres-Rosas and Shayla Garcia

[00:00] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Hi.

[00:00] SHAYLA GARCIA: My name is Dorymar Torres Rosas. I'm 22 years old. Today is January 5, 2023, and we're in El Paso, Texas, and I'm here with my coworker, Shayla, and.

[00:13] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Hello. My name is Shayla Garcia. I'm age 26. Today is January 5, 2023. We're currently in El Paso, Texas, and I am speaking with Dorymar and we are colleagues and co workers and friends. So, just to get started, I'll ask you, kind of like, what is your job?

[00:40] SHAYLA GARCIA: So, I work for a local nonprofit that services survivors of human trafficking, the Paso de norta center of Hope. And I am essentially a social worker, I would say. I go into the school, and I teach kids about human trafficking, how to stay safe online. I also do community presentations to, like, organizations, staff, teachers, you name it. And then I'm also a victim advocate, so I help sometimes with clients. We do have case managers that work directly with survivors, so sometimes they need help going to the grocery store or just in general. So what about you, Shayla?

[01:20] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Well, I don't do as much as you do. That's a lot. You do a lot. But I am getting my master's in social work, which is why I'm interning at center of hope, working with the human trafficking client case managers, and then helping with whatever. And then my other job is in community youth development, which is also how we partially know each other, of course. Working with the students in the schools.

[01:53] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yes. Actually, I'm glad you brought that up, because how we met was kind of interesting. So it was. I remember during the pandemic, and we were both working, teaching Sel to students at the same elementary. So what do you remember from when we first met or that time in your life?

[02:15] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Well, for you specifically, I remember thinking your style was, like, really cool, especially because we'd pass each other in the hall a lot, and I'd be like, perfect teaching outfit.

[02:30] SHAYLA GARCIA: Thank you.

[02:31] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah. And then during that time, I just moved to El Paso from Albuquerque, right in the middle of the pandemic, the worst time to move. So things were still very remote. Like, we didn't have a lot of contact with each other, but we luckily had just moved to in person contact with the kids, at least on my end of things, which was great. So, yeah, it was kind of a wild time. What do you remember from that?

[03:03] SHAYLA GARCIA: Well, I do also remember your style. I thought that you had the perfect teacher outfits, too. I was like, I dress too young. I need to be more sophisticated. But, no, I remember that you were so nice. And we would pass each other in the hallways, and sometimes we would, like, talk here and there about what we were doing and just very casual. But I do remember feeling like, wow, there's another person who kind of knows what this is like, because I know that working with kids before COVID it was very different from the situation we were in at the time, and nobody really knew how to address it, but we were kind of in that perfect place where we were doing sel. Social, emotional learning and kind of addressing a lot of those gaps. So what do you remember from working with your kids at the time?

[03:59] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah, great question. So I just remember a lot of, like you said, a lot of gaps, specifically in the social areas where, like, their. And I'm sure the school saw is more of academic gaps. But, yes, unfortunately, that is their priority, which is fair. But that wasn't what you and I really cared about. So, yeah, I just remember a lot of them were super cooped up. Like, they didn't know what to do with their energy, both, like, physical and emotional. Like, they didn't have that regulation piece to go to school for a full day out of only going online for a couple hours every day. So it was, like, quite a shock to them. And also, like you said, to see them before and after was kind of heartbreaking a little bit. And, like, even today, I saw one of my classes for the first time after their holiday break, and I was like, oh, how was your break? Blah, blah, blah. Did you guys have a good time? Pretty much all of them answered. They had a horrible time, like, during that break, and that was only two weeks. And, like, their Covid break was, like, two to three years. So, like, you can only imagine what's happened in that amount of time.

[05:22] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah, because, I mean, just alone. Like, I know a lot of our kids had experienced a death in the family. They had lost a parent, lost a caretaker, lost their house. They weren't unable to pay bills because their parents lost their job. And in that area, you're already looking at at risk kids because we work there, because they're a low income neighborhood and they have lots of, like, gang activity and all those different risk factors, and you just add Covid on top of that. It's a very scary place and kind of to connect it to the human trafficking part of things. If you think about a lot of these kids were given a device, Internet access, and completely unrestricted. Right. They're at home all day. A lot of our kids, their parents worked kind of in more service roles. So they had to physically go into their jobs. So that raised a lot of concerns when it comes to cyber safety and just these kids getting exposed, like, to things a lot younger and earlier than they normally would if they were being socialized in person at school. Right. Because they have Google, they have all these video games that they're playing with their friends and interacting with people, because, really, that was their only kind of point of connection was online, which we also encouraged them to reach out to their peers after class and stuff, but that just created so many more risks. So what do you think about the schools and the teachers and how things were for them?

[07:06] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Well, during COVID was when I was getting my teaching degree in New Mexico when it first started. And it was like you had to forget everything that you learned when it came to figuring out curriculum, which I'm sure you experienced too. Like, you just had to figure out a new way to connect with kids and still make it just as meaningful for them, even though you knew that without that in person piece, like, it just straight up wasn't as meaningful. Like, you could do the best you could, but you couldn't do the more physical welfare checks on them. You couldn't actually lay eyes on them and see, like, are you okay? Like, you couldn't have that one to one conversation because you were speaking over Zoom or, you know, all the kids had their cameras off. So, like, just the ability to make sure that they were being taken care of, like, really diminished over Covid. So I think from the teaching side, it was extremely difficult. And then also, of course, like, on the kids side, it was too. Yeah. What do you think?

[08:17] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah, I think definitely it made it so much more difficult for the teachers to be able to really connect with their students in, like, a meaningful way. Even coming back from the pandemic, you had, like, a lot of teachers who were sick or there was just not enough teachers. So the classes were a lot larger, I remember, than before COVID And a lot of times, they would put, like, a teacher that didn't necessarily teach that grade level right, just because we were trying to fill, like, the need. And then there was some points where they were like, oh, we're gonna go back online, and then we're gonna come back in person. And that instability kind of affects the kids. Cause they don't really know what's going on. There's no set routine in their day.

[09:09] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Right? Absolutely. So do you feel like. Or how do you feel like their social, emotional learning has changed now that we've spent a little more time back in school after Covid.

[09:23] SHAYLA GARCIA: So I guess I'll tell a story about this intervention that I had to do with fourth graders. So they had asked me, I was already going every two weeks to do social emotional learning with fourth graders, but they wanted me to come once a week for an hour to do a stem club, but then kind of tie in social emotional learning. Because the thing that we noticed the most is that these kids were completely unable to communicate with each other. And when I was asked to do this intervention, I think we had already been in school for about four months. So you would expect these kids to kind of know each other's names, be comfortable with each other. Some of them were, but a lot of them weren't. And I remember I would do this activity where in all my activities, I would say, okay, if you're done, put your hand on your head, and if you need help, raise your hand. And then the kids are sitting right next to each other. So you'd have a kid with his hand up that needs help, and then on either side of him, he would have two kids with their hands on their head. So the two kids next to him were done, but then the kid was just so afraid to even turn to the side to ask their friend, like, oh, can I have some help? So I would just go over there and kind of encourage the dialogue between the two people. And it was just little things like that that really helped kind of foster those skills. And I put them in groups where they didn't get along with their group members. And we worked a lot on, like, building those, like, cooperational skills and explaining to them how you communicate when you have a disagreement or if you need help or if you have a difference of opinion, how to be kind to each other, because I also noticed that there is a lot of empathy that was missing, because since I think a lot of those kids, they went into the pandemic in first grade, and that was their only experience of school. So now, being fourth graders, they just don't really know the structure, what's going on. Everything's new. There's all these changes. They're not used to talking to their friends, so then it's so much easier for them to get upset and not know how to emotionally regulate. So we did a lot of work on just emotional regulation, communication skills, and just, like, friendship building, I guess, as well. So what about you? What were some of the social things that you noticed kind of change in the kids?

[12:04] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah, that's a really great example. I think it is interesting how schools have changed their opinion of Sel. And you and I have talked about this a little bit where they seem to be seeing the value in it a lot more after the pandemic and just with, I think, global events and, like, different trends, they value that, like, mental health support more. And, like, see talking about social emotional learning and, like, coping skills as more of a preventative thing, so that I really appreciate going back to the schools knowing that they value it a little bit more. And I feel like with social media, it's a double edged sword because, yeah, they can encounter a lot of risks and dangers there, but also social media is really fond of, like, self care and, like, coping skills and, like, mental health awareness right now. So I know at least with my middle schoolers, I hear them, like, when I bring in a lesson where it's like, oh, we're talking about coping mechanisms. Have any of you heard of self care? And they're like, yes, absolutely. I do that every night. I do my, like, face routine. I do, like, I watch a movie. I do what I have to do to calm down. So, like. And they'll be like, oh, TikTok gave me that idea, which, like, you and I have talked about how TikTok is not the best place for a child. Yes, it exposes kids to a lot of adult content, which is part of the work that we're trying to do to prevent something like that. But also it does help them stay connected to that trend of, how do we recover after this massive global pandemic.

[14:02] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah, definitely. And I'm glad you brought up kind of social media and its influence on the kids, because I do see a lot of the children will say stuff like that, like, oh, are we going to talk about anxiety? Or I'll be like, does anybody know what fight and freezes? And there'll be, like, a couple of kids that already know, which is pretty cool, I think, in the learning process because they learn a lot more when they hear it from one of their classmates. You know, it's a really cool thing. But I guess to touch a little bit on Internet safety, since we're kind of venturing into the whole social media part of things, I think since they didn't have that kind of in person interaction, of course, you know, social media did become that, like, point of connection, which is so interesting to see manifest because you have kids that have such unique individual, like, personalities, right? Because they have so much time to, like, develop their interests and, like, you know, go online and do all these things, which, of course, is a beautiful thing. But I think it's very risky just to kind of not talk about the Internet while we're giving these kids so much access to it. So, like, when we go into the schools and we talk to the kids and talk to parents and teachers, the parents and the teachers are usually always like, well, like, what do we do? Like, are we supposed to, like, take their devices away or, like, not give them access? And actually, the research shows that that is counterproductive. So the National center for Missing and Exploited Children was recently here in El Paso for a conference, and they kind of told us that the best thing you can do is just having open, honest conversations with your child about what risk factors are. Or if you do encounter a situation like this, this is what you can do. And the prevention is kind of like, not so much abstinence. Kind of like the D A R E program was very much like, oh, don't do drugs. And then all the kids were like, oh, we're gonna go do drugs.

[16:19] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: You gave me a great idea.

[16:21] SHAYLA GARCIA: So it's just definitely more focused on, like, harm reduction, which is a good approach. So what do you think kind of about, like, harm, the harm reduction approach that we're kind of taking to educate the kids so that they're, like, empowered to make their own choices?

[16:35] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah, love it. Love harm reduction. And it's just, it's so great to see, like, adults, whether that be, like, parents, family members embrace that idea of, like, we know you're gonna use technology, so we may as well give you the tools to use it responsibly and safely, and then also to have that, like you said, that open communication. Because if kids don't feel like they can talk to a trusted adult or someone to get these answers about whatever they're trying to look or whatever they're trying to figure out, they're going to google it or they're going to go on the Internet, they're going to look at less reliable sources, possibly than if they felt comfortable enough to talk to an adult in the first place. So, yeah, I love that. I love NCMec's approach on it also. It's just really valuable to be able to make sure kids still keep their independence. And, like, if you have a family agreement for them to have their phone, then it's much safer for them to have that phone than, like, if you take it away as a punishment, then, like, they're left without that lifeline, without being able to contact you safely, without, you know, being able to, like, use their directions if they have to one of my students just ran away recently, a high schooler, and she ran away from home because her sister took away her cell phone, which ended up being. Not that it was her sister's fault at all, because that's what people, like, initially tell you to do, is like, well, take it away as a punishment. But then she went and ran away from home, out into the streets with no way of contacting her. Like, no way of using her phone to call friends to have a safe place to stay. So she was left without anything. So it's good to keep the phone or the Internet as a part of the solution rather than taking it away and causing more issues from it, if that makes sense.

[18:50] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah, I completely agree. That's a really good example because right. In that situation, and in a lot of situations, technology is used as kind of a protective factor.

[18:59] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Right.

[18:59] SHAYLA GARCIA: Like, we need to call our parents. We need to kind of know where we are and things like that. So it's really interesting to kind of just find that balance, and we don't really, like, encourage any specific approach. Right. It's very individual. Right.

[19:13] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Right.

[19:13] SHAYLA GARCIA: What are the family's needs? For one family, maybe it might be just limiting the time. Right. Or creating those healthy boundaries. Because even as an adult, I know that I need to have boundaries with my own device so that I can stay safe and protect myself, which is also just another good way to connect with your kids. As an educator, as person who might not know, like, what apps the kids are using or what websites they're going on, you don't necessarily need to be that expert. Right. You have a little expert with you right there, your kid or your student or whoever it is, and you can kind of just initiate a conversation by sitting down with them and being like, hey, what apps are you on? Like, let's go through them together. Have you ever looked at the privacy settings? Let's see what settings you can use. Or if this situation were to happen, how would you respond? Right. A very simple way is to start those conversations. NEcMec has actually a lot of materials on how to start those conversations. If you're anybody out there wanting to kind of initiate that conversation with a friend or a family member, they have a really great resource. So let's kind of ask a question that is not related to the work we're doing, just to kind of get to know each other a little bit. So how did you end up in El Paso? Shayla.

[20:45] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Oh, that's a great question. So I love the southwest. I was born in Las Cruces. So pretty close in New Mexico, and then went to college at UNM Go Lobos. Everyone's a lopo wolf Wolfenhe. And then that's where I met my now husband, who is in the military. And so he got stationed in El Paso, and we were like, oh, great. It's so close to home, so, like, we can still come see our parents and our families all the time, so that's so perfect. Yeah, it was really close. Yeah.

[21:21] SHAYLA GARCIA: So the way I ended up in El Paso is similar. So back in 2010, when I was 910 years old, my mom got stationed here. So I grew up in the south. I grew up in Virginia, South Carolina, and I was born in Puerto Rico. So I didn't really fit in anywhere because I was hispanic. And in the south, that's kind of like, you know, more of a issue. So when I came here to El Paso, I fell in love with the community, with the culture. I felt very, like, embraced, even though mexican culture and puerto rican culture are a little bit different. I just felt like El Paso was just this meeting place where people were so much more, like, kind and considerate. And so my mom has actually, like, gone and been stationed other places, but I've stayed here.

[22:14] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Do you think you'll stay here for, like, the foreseeable future?

[22:18] SHAYLA GARCIA: Oh, yeah. I feel like this is home. I'll definitely travel and go see other places, but I love El Paso.

[22:24] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah. And it's nice to have a home city to come back to no matter where you go.

[22:29] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah. So how did you end up in the job that you're doing now?

[22:35] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Another great question. So I started. I'm now interning, of course, with center of hope, but my previous internship was at El Paso Human Services, Inc. And they have the community youth development program, which is how we met. So I started as an intern, but they were short staffed, so they offered me the position, and I was like, kids community work. Amazing. Great. So I absolutely loved it because I love teaching, but the academic parts I don't think are as important. There are plenty of amazing teachers who want to tackle that and are amazing at it. And I know that what I find more valuable is to work on, like, the Sel skills, the functional skills, and that's where I can be helpful in kids lives, not as much the academic part. So I left teaching behind, and I was like, this is the perfect marriage of still being in the schools, but being more involved in kids lives. And then let's see what happened after that. Oh, yeah. So then I heard about all the schools in the northeast. So all the schools that we used to both work in were in the northeast. It was a grant specific to helping kids in that area because it was considered, like, a high risk area. So I heard about the reputation of the northeast. Like, as soon as I got here in the El Paso, people give it a super hard rep. People actually told me not to take the job because they were like, you don't want to go to the devil's triangle, which is so intense. And I feel like maybe part of the problem is that people were, like, trying to, like, scare me away, I guess, from, like, providing that resource just because they were like, oh, you don't want to even be driving around there. But, like, working in the northeast and in the schools that we work at, it's, like, the most beautiful part of town. You have, like, the mountains right there. I love it so much. Yeah. And the kids are so funny and amazing and awesome, but, yeah. How about you? How did you get started in that whole thing?

[25:03] SHAYLA GARCIA: So I actually grew up in the devil's triangle. I lived in that area. So for me, it's been very interesting to kind of have grown up in that area and, like, you know, been a low income household with, like, a single mom. And, like, I think I see it very differently from, like, when I was a kid, because when I was a kid, I would hear a lot of the stuff that you heard when you came to El Paso, like, oh, the northeast is so terrible, and you have to be careful. But, like, being from there, you know, you feel more of a community, right? And there are some specific social norms that kind of come with, like, the gang activity and all that. But, like, it just feels like home and, like family. And so I ended up going to a high school. Not in that area. Burgess high school. It's an early college high school, and that's why I went there. So my senior year of high school, I actually did a community project for human trafficking. And that was the first time I had ever been exposed to human trafficking, and I immediately felt, like, this connection to it, because I myself am a survivor of sexual trauma, and I've gone to therapy and done a lot of work on myself in that regard. So I connected on that level. And so doing the project, I was able to work with the Basil and northeast center of Hope, which is the organization I now work at. And it just kind of happened organically. Like, over the next couple of years, I would reach out and email them, like, hey, can I volunteer? And then they would be like, no. Because of COVID eventually, they were like, do you want to work here? And I was like, yeah. And they offered me the community youth development coordinator position, and that's kind of, like, where we started doing the similar job. And my background is in psychology, so I started my mental health journey on my own, and then I also started studying psychology because I really wanted to kind of understand how to be able to help myself. And it was really cool to start, like, working with the kids because a lot of those coping mechanisms and skills I had learned in school and in therapy were such a valuable resource for these kids during that time. So I just absolutely loved it. My favorite part was just being able to connect with the kids and see the kids and, like, build that relationship. Right. Because it's kind of hard, like, being in such a stressful situation. So I think a lot of adults at the time were very stressed out or, like, you know, just. It was a difficult situation and hard. So, like, we got to do, like, fun things and exciting things, and I really enjoyed that time of the work that I've done.

[27:59] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: So do you feel like just growing up in the northeast and having all the experiences that you've had that led you to center of hope? What would you want to tell yourself if you could go back in time and intervene and be the Dorymar you are for students now, but for yourself, what would you say?

[28:22] SHAYLA GARCIA: That is a really good question. So I think I would just say, like, just keep going. Like, don't give up. Like, there's gonna be lots of times where you want to, but just don't give up. I actually did, fortunately, have so many amazing teachers that did serve as kind of that lifeline, and I guess to compare my experience to one of my siblings experiences. So we both came from the same area, and my older brother, he's kind of struggled a lot in his life just because of that area. So he's currently in this moment. He's homeless, and he's struggled with that throughout his life, doing things that are kind of not necessarily legal. Right. Just because that's the community we grew up in. We were exposed to so many gangs and drugs. I can kind of see how I could have been in that situation, too, because I've been very close to being homeless myself. And it's very unfortunate and difficult because I'm so fortunate and lucky to have been able to go to college and get the education that I have. That's such a privilege. And I was able to do that because my mom's in the military, and I do see the kids. And I kind of, like, feel just bad for them sometimes. Right. Because these schools don't have the resources or the technology or the information to kind of give these kids a path out of poverty or a path out of, like, that kind of lifestyle. Right. And, yeah, it's very. It's kind of, like a double edged, like, sword. Like, I'm so excited that we're doing, like, the work that we're doing, but it is difficult to kind of see how these cycles kind of, like, perpetuate the cycles of poverty and the cycles of kids dropping out of school and doing things like that.

[30:21] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah. And things that are really impossible to break without that outside intervention or things that shouldn't be on kids to figure out themselves how to get out of that.

[30:36] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah. Like, it should be common knowledge, and we should have sel in all the schools, and we should have enough social workers so that we don't have, like, one social worker working at, like, four different schools, you know?

[30:48] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Right. Or we don't have to tell kids, like, okay, well, like, you. It's all on you. Like, your choices are gonna determine what's gonna happen where, like, kids should be able to make whatever choices they want to, and we'll be there to support them through whatever the consequences of that are.

[31:07] SHAYLA GARCIA: Yeah. Cause the kids do see the differences, like, even from a young age. But I think when you get to being an adult, you really start to notice how those things do affect your just life outcomes. Right?

[31:21] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Yeah, absolutely.

[31:22] SHAYLA GARCIA: So, I guess, what do you think we could do to kind of make the world a better place? And I would just say maybe something we could do in the next five years, or we could work on.

[31:38] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Oh, five years. Okay. I think. And, well, this is tricky, because, I mean, of course, all the answers are going to be very, like, resource dependent, but I think something that we could do that would, like, just make a world of difference is if we were able to really let kids follow their interests, because I feel like that naturally would solve a lot of the world's problems, because there are those kids that are interested in solving world hunger, solving energy crises, or green energy problems. And if we were able to give them that support and, like, make sure they're safe and all their other Maslow's hierarchy needs are taken care of, then I think that that would naturally solve all the. All the other problems that we have. Yeah, but, yeah, that's a good question. What's your answer?

[32:40] SHAYLA GARCIA: I mean, I would say, I guess, kind of, like, similar, but I think that. So we're living in Texas, and Texas is a big testing state. So, like, I guess, first and foremost, getting rid of state testing, giving teachers more autonomy on how they want to teach their class. Right. Because you put these teachers through all this education, give them all the tools to be amazing teachers, but then you have them teaching to a test and not teaching to the individual needs of the students. So I think that would be, like, a really good thing that we could do is get rid of state testing, but I don't know how feasible that is. And also just sel, like, across the.

[33:24] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Board, everything behind everything. And in corporate, like you did for stem in, like, every single subject, because I think, naturally, that's gonna keep, like, kids safer in the long run, because they'll, like, be able to build trusting relationships with. That are healthy and, like. And they'll get that love from other people because they'll also be doing the sel back to them, and it'll just be like, yeah, perfect.

[33:55] SHAYLA GARCIA: They'll have the tools to communicate. They'll have the tools to make rational decisions. Right. Have self awareness, like, all those things.

[34:03] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Boundaries.

[34:04] SHAYLA GARCIA: You need boundaries. Right? And, yeah, I agree.

[34:09] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: So let's get started on that, everybody. Okay, well, thank you so much for doing this with me, Dorymar

[34:18] SHAYLA GARCIA: Thanks for doing this with me, Shayla. I had a great time.

[34:21] DORYMAR TORRES ROSAS: Me too.