Dr. Ahsan Choudhuri and Susie Byrd

[00:00] SUSIE BYRD: Hi, my name is Suzie Byrd. I'm 51 years old. Today's date is January 21, 2023. We're here in El Paso, Texas, and I'm with my friend and colleague, Ahsan Choudhuri I'm going to hand it over to him.

[00:13] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Thank you, Suzy. My name is Ahsan Choudhuri I'm 52 years old. And today is January 21, 2023. And we are in El Paso, Texas. And I'm with my friend and colleague, Suzy Byrd

[00:26] SUSIE BYRD: Great. So, Ahsan I think why we're here today is we wanted to hear your story, and I've heard it many times, but it's a story I really love. And I think the reason I really love this story is because it's very emblematic of what El Paso and the US offer people and how we welcome people. And so I wanted to first ask you about your current occupation and how you came to be an aerospace engineer.

[00:58] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah. I'm a professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Texas, El Paso. I'm also the founding director and associate vice president for UTEP Aerospace center. The story behind me becoming aerospace engineers is kind of long path to our set. I grew up in a country which is 8000 miles from here, Bangladesh, grew up in eighties and really did not have a whole lot of opportunity to pursue aeronautics or aerospace or space engineering. When I was in 6th grade, I found a book in my mom's library. My mom was a Bangladesh literature professor. And that book is a translation. It's all about Bell X one. And if you don't know what Bell X one is, Bell X one is the first supersonic aircraft built by United States right after the second World War. That story mesmerized me. And it's something is I read over and over again and kind of decided I was in either 7th or 8th grade and decided that I wanted to be an aerospace engineer. Well, I didn't know what aerospace engineering is. I want to do something with the aircraft and growing up in that country has very little opportunity. But I pursued mechanical engineering as my engineering career early. And then I came to University of Oklahoma for my graduate degrees in aerospace related field. People often ask me, why University of Oklahoma? So Bell X one known for his pilot, Chuck Yeager. But there's another person behind Bell X. One who's really made a lot of impact in my life is Jack Ridley. Jack Ridley was a chief engineer and he provided a lot of technical solution during flight testing. And University of Oklahoma was Jack Ridley's university. So I came here so kind of that's the path to me to be an aerospace engineer.

[02:57] SUSIE BYRD: So your mom, you have her graduation certificate, diploma on your wall. Can you tell me why?

[03:06] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yes. In my office, I display my mother's graduate certificate. My mother passed away 2008. So my mom was the first in her university to get a graduate degree a women. And she was a barrier breaker. So that time in 67, 66, 68, that timeframe in Bangladesh, women did not pursue graduate degrees and we didn't even go to sometimes university. So mom is a barrier breaker. She got a graduate degree in Bangladesh literature. She was so barrier breaker that that time university did not print a certificate that says her degree. So her certificate says his degree. And this is a beacon for me. That's something. And that her diploma and I already displayed in my office. My mom gave it to me. And it's always been a path for me to break barriers and create opportunity for other people. My mother committed most of her life creating opportunity for women and their education. I'm in a path a little bit different, but the same path, creating engineering opportunity for a lot of minority universities, women and anybody like me.

[04:25] SUSIE BYRD: So tell us how you got to Utep and El Paso.

[04:30] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: So when I started in University of Oklahoma and I'm a, I was still a foreign national then, and for rightful reason. For foreign national, it's really a little bit difficult to pursue aerospace fields because you need really security clearances, you need all other stuff, right? So. But, you know, it did not stop me doing things. So at the end of my doctoral work, I did able to get a project funded by NASA, which is not really very common. But I wanted to work on rocket engine that are very small. We call them as micro rockets. It's not directly related to my doctoral dissertation, but I created a new project and NASA Ebscor program funded that. Part of the program was that I have to be an intern to a NASA center. Again, the challenge is as a foreign national, it will be really difficult for me to get into NASA program. So I remember first time when I went to visit NASA Glenn Research center, which is in Cleveland, Ohio, didn't have much clue. I only showed up with my professor in their visit, in their gate, and they said, you really cannot get in. But then I was meeting a person, Doctor Valerie Lyon. She was the chief of power and propulsion, and she came down from his office and met with me in a visitor center. Doctor Valerie Lyon was a big deal, but that generosity that she took the time to come to meet with me, I'm just an unknown graduate student. It's kind of like a huge. It makes a huge changes in me. Until then, I really wanted to be bickshot researcher and Bickshad professor. And then her team took a lot of effort and energy to get me clear to work for NASA this summer. And obviously the process is not easy. There are probably 400 pages form they have to fill up, but additionally they also have to escort me throughout my time in NASA. And it's not an easy deal. If I have to go to restroom, somebody has to go with me. But they took all the pain. If you look very carefully, that they didn't have to do any of those things. The generosity and kindness they showed to an immigrant like me was different. It was different, and it made a huge impact that what I want to do with my life. And when I graduated from University of Oklahoma with a NASA grant and a lot of apps, really very hot in the market, everyone had to hire me. And I got a call from University of Texas El Paso, because sometimes in summer I applied, and they told me that, hey, you want to come for an interview? And I told him that, told them that I do not want to come. I don't know what it is, why it is. And I was on my way to a large aerospace school that I accepted a position. The film is not an interview. Why don't you just come? You even don't have to wear a tie, okay? You just come and hang out with us. And that was doctor Ryan Wicker, who is an El Paso boy who went to Stanford and came back and established the Kegg center, which is advanced manufacturing center. So I came, I remember clearly that I came here on Thursday noon time, and then I directly went to the university with a rental car, and I hang out with him. And I remember that day he had his second child, so he's still in his office and I'm discussing this, and then I hang out with him. And what's the uniqueness about this visit is that I had this opportunity to meet with one of the phenomenal academic leader in our century, which is doctor Diana Natalie. She was the president of UTEP. Usually president don't meet with assistant professor candidates. And she did, and she spent over hour with me. And it's really made everything change with the meeting. I saw someone who's so passionate and understood what you do with your career, with your future. And she told me that you could go anywhere Ahsan if you want to, it doesn't matter. You'll be successful no matter where you got. But if you want to have impactful, career. If you have a career that transcended beyond your lifetime, probably this is the place you want to be. And I don't have much to offer you because you're an aerospace engineer. We don't have a strength in aerospace engineering, but I can see that you can do something here. And I went back Saturday morning and also interesting thing was flying back from Dallas to Oklahoma City. Barry Switzer, the famous coach of Oklahoma, was sitting next to me. So I remember those days. And I went back, I think Saturday and Monday afternoon I got my appointment letter faxed by UTAP, which is again, something not very normal. Faculty hiring is a long process and it takes votes for faculty and all of this stuff. But doctor Natalie should jump all the hope in less than 30 minutes. And that afternoon I accepted the position to UTEP. And my doctoral supervisor, rightfully so, was very, very mad with me. He told me, UTEP does not have anything in your area. Maybe it's a good school, but not in your area. And this is something you should not be doing with your career. You gonna get stuck there. And he said, I feel like you're an incredibly smart person. I don't know why you made this decision, what was the rationale? But I told him that it felt like home. So when I came to El Paso, I saw the side of kindness that I missed in understairs. I saw people like doctor Natalie Shura and Wicker's passion to ensure that, that we make a huge difference in this community. And it resonated well with me. And I'm not that old at that time, did not have a whole lot of understanding how academia is, but I felt like that it's worth being here and try something that will have long impact. So that's how I ended up in Utah.

[10:24] SUSIE BYRD: I remember you telling me once maybe about a waitress that you met that made you feel real welcome.

[10:30] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah, I was having breakfast since it was a little bit informal interview, so regular interview, you'll have people come and have breakfast. But I was staying in the Holiday Inn in San Loan park and I was having breakfast and this server came to me and started talking to me very kindly. And one thing he says, are you missing your family? You look sad. This personal connection of people in this community is something special and you will not see that many places. And I have the same connection with most of my students. You know, aerospace center has produced over thousand, more than thousand probably now, and put them in aerospace and defense industry. Many of them, I directly supervised them. Many of them I had a deeper connection with them, because they are my early students and I have saw, I've seen the same amount of kindness to my, even my students. They can connect with people, they can connect with them at a personal level. And that missing many part of United States and always say that that comes from our immigrant route, that comes from our root, that we accept people who they are and then make them part of our family. And that's what really special about El Paso.

[11:42] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. And so you came to UTEP and there's no aerospace program, so how did you grow into what it is today? Like, how did that start?

[11:55] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah, so that's the first phase, just getting here and then wanted to do something. But I start to realize that the situation on the ground is a lot more difficult than I can imagine. As a very young assistant professor, it's not easy for me to build the resources and support. So I will not lie that I thought about sometimes that maybe, maybe I made a mistake, maybe this is not the place. Because the struggle in the first few years was tremendous to really get a program going to build my own career and to get generate enough research funding to support. So at this same time I had few students, they always to come to my office. I was teaching heat transfer and thermodynamics and they are my first group. So it's Claudia Herrera, Rojalio Franco and Ivan and Chando.

[12:46] SUSIE BYRD: And what year is that? What year is that?

[12:48] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: That will be 2001, 2003, that time frame. And I saw myself in them, I saw them there in Utah, in El Paso, wanted to do something huge and big in aerospace area. It's simply they could not find the dots for them and they saw me as their gateway to them. They would come and talk to me about various aspects of aerospace technology. That current group of that time, the faculty could not give them the advice. And they told them they want to work with me and they want to do their master's research and undergraduate research with them. So we remember we cleaning up. So it didn't give me any startup funding, very little because they didn't have it, but they also gave me space that's really not usable. But three of my students myself, we clean that part and set up a lab. We call it combustion and propulsion research lab. And this is how we started. And so Ivan Anchando graduated the masters with me and now a mission manager in International Space Station in Johnson Space center. And Rohalu Frank was a branch chief in Kennedy Space center doing the ground operation for a space launch system. And Claudia Harrietta become deputy chief engineer of an X plane. So I started my dream with Xplain. My former student is now a deputy manager of X plane. So it's really a long path, but that's how we started. And then you start to see students start showing up. We had a very limited resources in the beginning, but they did not prevent a student to succeed. I remember that we wrote a proposal to NASA microgravity project that you could run experiment in NASA's vomiting comet or KC 135 aircraft. But you know, the program is such a way that you have to generate your funding. NASA will give you an opportunity to use their spacecraft, aircraft, but you have to build the system and you have to so tough. I don't have that money. So student did fundraising and did engineering. And I remember they assigned an as a mentor. And the mentor came to visit us. He said, you know, Ahsan you may want to borrow the test rig from your professor. I don't think you're getting there. My student says, no, we're going to build it. And they did build, they build the system and they get all the safety passed and did run the experiment on this microgravity aircraft. So one brick at a time. That's how we build the program. Currently, aerospace center is one of the largest in the nation. Employ more than 200 students and approaching an active budget over $150 million. But it all started with that three students with a no labs and a journey. But it's a journey or doing it, you know, and many, many students came out from our program now really excelling in aerospace and defense industry. But it's all started that early days of my time in UTEP.

[15:51] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. So one of the reasons I'm the most proud to work with you and with the center for the center is that it's very different. It's different than any type of research center that you would find in a university. Can you talk a little bit about what makes the aerospace center different and special and unique for the students that it serves?

[16:14] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: It's going with the same thing. Right. That's why I came here. Right. So most research centers in academia is heavy focus on research output, which we are too. Okay. But they. They try to reach that research excellence through different pathway than I do. Okay. They have lot of engineers, postdocs and all of that. I do have those things, but they are often not committed to student success. Aerospace center exists for student success. We are a world class research program. Can do anything, everything that other people can do. But that's not our priority. Our priority is our student. What we have done is taking kids from El Paso zip codes whose parents make less than $40,000 and put them in aerospace and defense industry, while they themselves make over $100,000. So our journey is always around our center. We exist for students, our soul, which is fairly uncommon in any other research center. Plus, we are an open access program. We don't prejudice, and we don't say who can or cannot join our team. We hire and recruit people based on their aspiration and what they want to do. In my career, I have students who has a terrible GPA in high school, end up, eventually end up becoming an asset. So we believe that if you provide access, you provide opportunity, and you care about people, they will succeed. United States doesn't have a luxury to tell who or who cannot go to school and succeed when it's such a crunchy workforce. We must tap into our hidden talent pool and really ensure that everybody's successful.

[17:52] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. Yeah. So then your path and your kind of journey expanded. In 2017, you met Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, who was at that time the county judge. Can you tell us how that changed sort of the trajectory and the work of the aerospace center?

[18:14] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah. So our 1st 1516 years were hyper focused on creating workforce and make sure that students get the opportunity to succeed. Our community, El Paso, the beautiful community with so many kind people, actually did not have the job to retain them. So I was very happy shipping them somewhere else because that's economic mobility I wanted for them. But what's happening to a community that we lose those bright people, you know, as a community, cannot grow and sustain long period of time if your brightest minds leave you. Okay. So back in 2015, I got my second round of very large NASA funding, and I really needed a big place to set up some test facility. And I have this fascination from airports. And so I found out that there's an airport in Fabians, unused, and. And I visited that, and I figured out that airport belongs to county of El Paso. So I went to see County Judge Veronica Escobar then county Judge Veronica Escobar now the congresswoman Veronica Escobar and I had this fascinating discussion. It's a very similar discussion I had with Diana, Natalie, that time that brought me here. And this discussion, I saw another El Paso on. Deeply committed and connected to the community and wanted something lot bigger than what they can. They have. They want, she want an equitable prosperity. She want every El Paso one to have an access to bright carrier. And she kind of saw that, that I can provide them. So she. She kind of told me that, you know, I'm very, very happy that you're taking students from El Paso zip codes and putting them in aerospace and defense industry. But our son, we may figure out, might need to figure out how to keep them here, how we create a grow an advanced technology economy for our community. How can we grow out of the disaster happen through the NAFTA in most of the jobs in El Paso, we have done many things, she told me, but we are not getting those jobs. So the new journey started for aerospace center is how can you use a research prevalence, how can you use the strength and network and the connection we have nationally to create an economic development agenda? And then you came on board and we all started working together to develop a agenda for our community that, you know, our next generation wave of jobs will be in aerospace and defense industry. We are very early stage of that development process already had tremendous success upgrading there. So the goal is to use our research prevalence, not only us, but our sister center, care center, and really create a supply chain here, attracting businesses here and really retaining a bright people here. And we made so much progress on that over the last four or five years, but it's kind of like a phase two of aerospace center research excellence now. Economic development excellence.

[21:05] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. So, you know, the thing that I find, you know, you are an immigrant. You left your home and your family and you came to the United States. So what is your connection now with Bangladesh? Like, how do you, do you go back often? Do you, I feel like I tease you about this. Is that your wife and you are sort of, this seems to me the center of a very large and growing Bangladesh community here, the cultural and social center of the center. Tell me a little bit about that. And kind of where you, how you have sort of seed your old home.

[21:51] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah. So of course, my family spread out all over the, you know, in the globe. And honestly that the direct relationship with Bangladesh has started to fade away. What did not fade away? That I, there are many peoples like me in Bangladesh want to have the same opportunity that I had. So, but also on the other side, I want United States to be the destination of global talents. I want world's bright and best people to come to this country. And this has been our process over generation. You know, our supremacy in technology, are creating a huge wealth, creating this global superpower the way we became by harnessing talent throughout this globe. Right. Our ability to bring immigrants and make them successful. No other country can do that. Right. So I want Bangladesh to be part of that ecosystem. I want the people now growing up in bangladeshi, bangladeshi zip codes, bangladeshi neighborhoods, end up in El Paso and follow a path that I have and become an american and become part of this great nation in the world. And kind of selfish way I'm hurting Bangladesh because I'm draining brain from there. But I'm creating opportunity for those people. But that is creating, enriching this El Paso community and bringing so much talented people here that I like to keep them here will eventually create that talent firepower we need to grow this country and grow this economy. So connection with Bangladesh is different now for me, you know, harnessing talents and bridging the opportunity so that we still remain the destination of global talent.

[23:41] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. And then, you know, so I remember, so you and I started working very closely when I worked for Congresswoman as kabar. And then I think then I started working as a consultant with the chamber in the aerospace center. And during that time we hosted a technology forum where he invited industry to engage with students. And I think it wasn't until I saw there at the, I just remember like very vividly, I mean, you had told me how in demand the students were, but I hadn't like seen it. And so I just remember there was, you know, there Lockheed Martin was there, blue Origin was there, a lot of our industry partners were there. And at one point, I just remember Blue Origin brought a crew. There was ten people. And I just remember they were swarming the students. They would go in a little tribe and go and swarm them. That's when I realized how in demand our students are. And I wonder why is that? What makes what they're getting different from what other universities provide students?

[24:56] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yeah, it probably convergence of many different things. There is a national issue of not having enough people in aerospace and defense workforce. Fundamentally that's becoming huge challenge for our nation. As you build new space station, new spacecraft, new rocket, we simply don't have enough people in the pipeline. Right. But on the other hand, you are looking at a region with fully talents. El Paso students are talented beyond I can comprehend what they lack an opportunity. So what our program did, actually, first of all, we grow our talent with passion. We want to make sure that they have this really huge hands on training. Remember you mentioned that our students is our primary focus. We put a lot of energy to develop their skills. We have sprawling laboratories, we have deeper connection with the industry. Many of our students did a lot of internship with those companies. They are swarming in and then their work ethics for this community is phenomenal, you know, and this is the culmination of their skill set. So they are trained so well, they are so talented, and throughout their education, they're so deeply connected to the industry. Partner made them immensely, immensely valuable. Also another thing, our company also told me that the students who get out of our program and coming out from this neighborhood has two special things that they seem to be really committed to that company, and they don't take anything guaranteed. They assume that everything needs to be earned, and that kind of ecosystem made them so valuable.

[26:32] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. And then I remember you also told me, so we have partnerships with lots of universities, and you were telling me, and then we also have locations all over where we keep growing. You told me about an interaction that one of the students from Tuskegee who was working for us had with the Adele. Will you tell me a little bit about that?

[26:59] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Yes, definitely. It is. So, as you just mentioned, we're expanding, but our expansion also have a strategic pathway. So our primary work in the past decade is taking mostly hispanic students and were seriously underrepresented in aerospace and defense industry. And we made a big changes on that. As we start to expand, we're also going to the community where similar challenge exists. One of them things are expansion in Huntsville community. But when we went to Huntsville, we went ahead and partnered with two black schools. One is Tuskegee and one of the Alabama A and M. And you can readily see those kids on those community has very similar challenge, maybe even more challenge than. Than here, similar to El Paso. So those students actually joined our team as a research assistant, some of them just freshmen. So I remember his name is Nigel, he is working on our hypersonics project. And Adel Ratcliffe, he is the director of I best from office of secretary of defense program. And she was visiting our facility and Nigel was giving him her a tour of what he was working on. And so fluent Nigel, and explaining what he has been working on, a concept of a hypersonic weapon system and such a smooth presentation, and I'm so proud of Nigel. And then after the presentation, Adel said, okay, so what level of graduate students you are? And then Nigel told me, I'm just a sophomore. This is my second month in this facility. Well, it shows two things, that if you provide opportunity, people like Nigel will excel beyond the point. But what really limiting their ability to succeed is lack of opportunity. So our country has to do a lot better than what we are doing, creating, taking opportunity to every zip codes, to every school to ensure that our future still has a lot of workforce. So, yeah, so that's really the similar aspects of it. Right. So that if you provide opportunity, if you provide infrastructure, you provide a path to successful. Those gpAs, all those are overrated. All it matters when people aspire to do something and they have the right opportunity to do it.

[29:17] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of amazing.

[29:22] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: It is amazing when working with those students and from different universities and see that, how similarly challenged they are. And for God's sake or United States of America, none of our children should feel like that. They don't have an opportunity to be successful. Whether it's a Tuskegee, Alabama or Utah, they should all have an opportunity to be successful. That's probably what you and I am working all the time to ensure that this opportunity matrix is there for them.

[29:49] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. So we're doing the same thing now for small and medium manufacturers here in our community with similar challenges in terms of resources and. But great manufacturers. But tell me a little bit about that work and kind of. So, you know, I was on city council for many years. I pay a lot of attention to economic development activity. And in our community, most of the work around economic development has really been focused on attraction of large companies to our region. I don't think it's been a very successful model. I think you have to do a lot more. But that's really been sort of over the last two decades, sort of the primary funding and resourcing around economic development was that. And this is very different. It's very grassroots. So tell me a little bit about that.

[30:49] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: So it's also the intersection of two different things, a national priority and a regional priority. So over the last two decades, we kind of destroy our supplier base. Most of our manufacturing moved offshore, and we can buy many things from offshore. But one thing we really cannot buy from offshore is our aerospace and defense system as primary manufacturers left United States with this huge vacuum of not having suppliers. And that's putting so much distress on our aerospace and defense supply chain. We need to figure out that how bringing hundreds and thousands of supplier on board if we want to stay on top of our defense manufacturing. On the other hand, in El Paso area, Nafta took out a lot of manufacturing out of El Paso. But still there's a resilient manufacturing base exist nearly 300 small and medium manufacturers. Some of them are export oriented, but same as they have the lack of opportunity to connect with the national chain. Right. The lack of opportunity to network with the bigger. So the work you and I have been doing is to really create that. Harnessing this, I would say forgotten manufacturing base, really reprepare them, retool them, reimagine them to lead the american manufacturing renaissance, especially to support aerospace and defense industry. So we are working with each and every small manufacturer, finding out what their capacity issues, what infrastructure improvement needs to be done to be the part of the aerospace and defense supply chain. And, of course, we are creating this aerospace and defense advanced manufacturing district where many of our small and medium manufacturers will co locate. So our focus is that infrastructure as a service, manufacturing infrastructure as a service, and bringing this hundreds of small and medium manufacturer in the prime time.

[32:38] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. And so for me, again, my work, if you just look at sort of where I've been, it's always been about El Paso. And so I started, you know, when I came back to El Paso, moved back here in 2000. No, I guess 1995, I worked for my family's publishing company, Cinco Pundos Press, and then got into politics. I worked for Ray Caballero. And for me, it's always been this thing, having grown up here, that we had for a long time sold our community short. Elected leaders, appointed leaders, had sort of sold ourselves as a low wage community. And all of the work and all of my excitement around being paid not too much to be on city council was about trying to change that formula. But it's hard work. It doesn't happen overnight. It's the stuff of very kind of focused attention, resourcing, a lot of community engagement. And that's why, I mean, it's kind of funny. People, they'll ask me, they're like, susie, you're not an. Are you an engineer? I'm like, I am not an engineer. I'm trying, but I'm not there yet. But I'm drawn to this work because it is so rooted in the potential of our community. It's so rooted in the talent our community has. And it's because at the core of it, it's just this deep belief in this place and what makes this place special. So I want to thank you for letting me work with you. I've loved it so much, and especially because, you know, honestly, like, every day, it's hard. We've had our battles. Not everybody is a supporter, but.

[34:43] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: Even.

[34:43] SUSIE BYRD: With that, it's such. I feel so good every day about the work that we're doing. I feel like we're on the right path. I think that we're doing something that, in the same way that you've provided a transformational opportunity for students, I think we will do something that will look back ten and 20 years from now and say, man, that was really important. I'm so glad we went through all the hard work to get it done, Susie.

[35:12] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: I didn't do it by myself. Right. Friends like you, Congressman Escobar and others, making this real for us. And as you always say, and we always say that we have a simple ask to this nation that we want equitable prosperity for our people. So that's all we are asking. We're not asking handout. We're not asking community like El Paso must grow. We must have a equal share of american prosperity.

[35:39] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to talk about? We have a couple more minutes.

[35:45] DR. AHSAN CHOUDHURI: So as we grow as a nation, and one of the biggest challenge we'll be facing as a nation that our population has to grow and all the population growth not going to happen through this lower birth rate of our nation and the diversity we need, diversity of thinking, diversity of work ethic, all those things need, we must remain as an open nation. We must remain as a nation that create opportunity for not only the homegrown people, but the people are migrating from different parts of the country. It only going to make our country stronger. It only make us strong together. So we must remain as a nation that is welcoming to immigrants.

[36:32] SUSIE BYRD: Yeah, I agree. I agree.