Dr Rosemary Lucas

00:01 So to begin with, I just want to say my name is Sarah Lucas and I am interviewing Dr. Rosemary Lucas. And it is June 19, 2023. We are in Plymouth Place in LaGrange, Illinois, and I am recording this today. So tell me what is top of mind for you in terms of the stories you want to tell about winter and Palos? So set. Paint a picture for me if you can, what was winter like in Palos?

00:38 Okay, now you want me to.

00:41 Yeah, tell me. So you have this in your mind. You envision in your mind winter in Palos. What does it look like?

00:49 It's a vast open space with lots of snow and some of it is in large snow banks. Yeah, you know. Okay, so do you want me to tell you?

01:03 Yeah, tell me. Tell me about that. So where is. Where is your house? Where is it in relation?

01:07 We're talking about winter and Palos And this is in the 1930s.

01:13 Great.

01:14 Palos is farmland. It's all over farmland. And while there is a form of government, a township government, there is no such thing as a Department of transportation. This is leading up to the snow. Anyway, My grandfather in the early 30s was what was called township supervisor. And so if there was a need for something, Grandfather was in charge of figuring out how to take care of this need, whatever it was.

01:53 Yeah.

01:54 Okay. Now, every winter you had at least two, maybe three huge snowstorms. And because everything was wide open, you know, the driveways, the highways, the streets, the roads, whatever you call them, or many of them were blocked. Transportation. And transportation, of course, was by your own vehicle. There was no public transportation. And so after about a day or two of the heavy snow, Grandfather would put out the call. I don't know how he did it, but somehow in every farmer and everybody around there who had any kind of a piece of equipment that could move snow was put to out and do the job. I do not think anybody exchanged hands. I do not know about that. My father then, at that time, he was one of the helpers. He later became the supervisor, who was the go to guy. But anyway, they would be gone. Sometimes we wouldn't see them for two days.

03:06 Wow.

03:07 Because they would be out with their. Whatever kind of equipment any of them had. And some did have plows, you know, and I don't know what. And they converted their farm equipment into things that could be used. And anyway it was. And of course there was. The power would go out naturally. And so they'd be out there in the cold moving the snow and we'd be home huddled over what they call a cook stove in the kitchen. And that's what was keeping us warm. And anyway, that went on for a couple of days, and then dad would come home for a short break, take a rest, and then he'd be back at it again. Now, is this important? It's important, first of all, because there was a cooperative agreement. No money exchanged hands.

04:05 Fascinating.

04:05 People pitched in and did this. And they came from the whole area, township. And what did they. You think to them, you're now gone that long. What did they do for food? People along the way, farmhouses, knew that they were coming to help. And there would be a hot meal ready for them at that home, you know, and there was always a jug of coffee that was always at the ready, and off they'd go. Now, the significance to me of all of this is the cooperation that was there, you know.

04:46 Absolutely.

04:47 You know, and the use of your equipment and all that. And everybody was just at the ready. You did it. And really the township would have been closed down if it wasn't for all that. But I was just a little kid. And the highlight of a winter storm. This is very important. When dad came home, it would only be every couple days because the people had given him things. He would come with a big brown grocery bag full of candy. And there was all kinds of candy in the bag for the kids at home. And that was a big deal. The highlight of. And I was only five years old, the highlight of the big winter storm was wonderful. And dad came home with the big grocery bag full of candy. Now, is that important? The significance to me of the whole thing is the cooperation of the people and the ones who were home preparing a hot meal for when they happened to get to their place, you know, but really the main highways were closed if it wasn't for them moving the snow.

05:57 I bet you felt. I mean, I would think you would. Had felt very protected.

06:03 Oh, yeah, yeah. It was just. You were kind of afraid because the power was off, which meant that there was no.

06:12 We had to pause. Rosemary's lunch arrived. So what you were saying is the cooperation of the community, the significance of.

06:23 That, you know, as I say, they did the best they had with what they had to work with. Now, they were not poor farmers. That wasn't the point. But they were, you know, living out in farm country today. One would just. If it wasn't done right, it would be quick to blame the highway department or this or that or the other thing, you know, and some place the streets were in plow and blah Blah. That wasn't the way it was in those days.

06:57 Doesn't sound like that was the theme at all.

06:59 No. But then the other part of my winter story.

07:04 Yes, please.

07:05 All right. You know this. We lived in the country, okay?

07:09 Yeah.

07:10 And there was a recreation in the winter with Churchill. Now, maybe Mark heard about Churchill. All right. Way back in 1900 or so, the church out there burned down and they needed to build another one. And where were to be built, etc. And my grandfather Lucas said, I will give the land and it will rebuild, rebuilt. And it was at the corner of what's now 107th and Keene Avenue.

07:46 Okay.

07:47 It was at the top of a hill. Okay, okay. And so after that was settled, and so anyway, very soon it became our winter sports arena. It was Churchill. And we would go up there and we could toboggan. It was a big hill, and on a good day, you could get almost from the top where the church was, almost down to the farmhouse, which was pretty far down. And so anyway, the big thing was that would be sometimes after school or something, or once in a while after supper in the evening, dad would take us up, you know, for an hour or so in the dark. Of course, there's no lights around or anything. And I'll tell you, that was a big deal. Exciting.

08:38 It must have been really exciting.

08:40 We called it ours because, of course, the land did belong to Grandpa.

08:44 But anyway, who would you go with besides your father?

08:48 Oh, well, my cousins, mostly my cousins, because I had a lot of them. Now, that was one case where it really was ours. And so with some reluctance, we let strangers come in and use our Churchill. But for the most part, it was ours. Now, it was not the greatest place to tobacco and sled, but it worked out fine for us. And it was, you know, if you went up. Now, the thing is, there was a. You know what barbed wire is?

09:23 Yes, I do.

09:24 Okay. All right. There was a barbed wire fence at the end of the churchyard. And that was there to keep the animals that were down on the farmland and getting up there in the churchyard. And in order to get out with your toboggan and stuff, you had to crawl under the barbed wire, you know? Now, I'll tell you, there's more than one shred of somebody's jacket sleeve caught in the barbed wire because it's a little tricky to get in there. Now, sometimes if we went after supper and dad went with us, he took us. Dad used to, for some reason or other, he'd have pliers in his Pocket. And he'd go snip, snip. And we had easy access to our hill.

10:10 That's great.

10:11 But we. And of course, you know. Right. Two miles away, we had the big toboggan slide and everything that was run by the forest reserve. But the thing about the Churchill, it was ours.

10:26 Yeah.

10:26 And so.

10:28 And how did that feel, knowing it was yours?

10:30 It was yours. And so, yeah, you let other people be there, but you knew it was, you know, it was ours. But the Churchill thing, and that was a big deal. Now, I mentioned Dad a few times. Dad worked long hours and he was good to us and he took good care of us, but we didn't always have a lot of special dad time. And that was when we had. It was when we did stuff like that, you know.

10:57 That's beautiful.

10:57 I don't know if that's of interest or anything.

10:59 Oh, it's beautiful.

11:00 And today the old church is still there. And it's something else. I don't know what it is, but there are big signs all over that. There's no debac, no skiing, nothing there. It's not safe.

11:16 Now, can I ask you, when do you think about Churchill? Do you dream about it ever?

11:22 I don't dream about it, but I think about it. I think a lot about what went on out there. Kathleen and Paul wouldn't know what I was talking about because it was before their time. She wouldn't know. And it was special family time to go to Churchill. You know, it was really funny. As a little side thing, there's a foot doctor here at this facility. And so I had an appointment and went down to. I don't know. And so we were chatting for a few minutes. And he lives out in Tiddly Park. You know, that's. And then he said something to me. He said, oh, yeah. He said, did you ever hear of Churchill? I said, did I hear of Churchill? I grew up there.

12:09 How wonderful.

12:09 It was kind of funny, you know. And then he knew where it was and it was kind of funny. But that was a big attraction. And you probably don't know. At one time there was a ski jump out there.

12:23 Oh, wow.

12:24 And it really was. You could see it from miles around. This was a big official ski jump. And in fact, there were some significant jumps held there.

12:35 Oh, no way.

12:35 And that was in the 30s and 40s. That was operated by the forest reserve. It was run by the forest reserve. And they also had the waggin slides there.

12:46 These are beautiful images.

12:47 Yeah.

12:48 I absolutely love them.

12:49 Yeah. But that was a big thing. And the ski jump eventually, I suppose, was considered unsafe. But really, I know that at least we talk about it. Be a big deal at one time in the winter when there'd be a. And people came. At one time, people came from another country to go there, you know.

13:12 You know, Rosemary, I wish I could give you a mirror to see how your face lights up when you're talking about Churchill.

13:17 Yeah.

13:18 You are transported to another time.

13:21 Oh, yeah. Thank you.

13:24 Thank you for telling me this story.

13:25 I don't know if that's anything you.

13:27 Want, but I think it's wonderful and I love it.

13:30 Yeah.

13:30 Thank you.

13:31 But it was growing up in the country, you know, that's the way it was.