Dr. Steve Wilson and Dr. Elisa Wilson

[00:01] DR. STEVE WILSON: I'm doctor Steve Wilson. I'm 52 years old. Today's January 11, 2023, and we're located right here in El Paso, Texas. And I'm here with my wife, doctor Elisa Fraser Wilson. She's not only my wife, but partner in crime. And I'm excited to have this conversation with her.

[00:17] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: I'm Elisa Wilson. I'm 54 years old here at El Paso, Texas on January 11, 2023. And I'm here with Doctor Steve Wilson, my husband, whom I love very much and is my musical partner and life partner.

[00:35] DR. STEVE WILSON: So I guess the first thing we should talk about is how we met, because that's kind of a fun story and it really plays into our work life that we have today. We both work at the University of Texas at El Paso in the department of Music, and this is our 25th year working there. And in fact, this is also our 25th year of marriage as well. We got married just a couple months before getting started at UTEP, and we met on a tour of Canada with the University of Illinois choir and trombone ensemble. We both did our graduate studies there. And at the first rest stop in Chicago, it's just a couple hours into the trip, you know, of course, the, the singers were at the front of the bus and the trombone players were at the back of the bus, segregating ourselves as, as musicians always tend to do. And immediately I saw this beautiful woman and I said to my trombone friends, wow, she's fantastic. I'm going to go talk to her. So I did. I went up and started up a conversation and it went pretty well. And I looked over at my trombone friends and I gave him the visual with my index finger and thumb, saying, oh, I'm this close. I can just tell. And I told him, hey, guys, I'm this close. I could tell things were really going well. And at each, every additional rest stop, I was talking to Elisa, and one trombone player would be far off to the left side with their left arm outstretched saying, hey, Steve. And there was another guy on the far right, far, far away with the right hand extended saying, hey, Steve. And they're saying, you're this far away, you're nowhere close. Nothing's going to happen. Anyway, we had a great trip. Nothing did actually end up happening on that trip. I felt lucky at the end just to get her phone number. But why was that, Elisa?

[02:18] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Because I was dating somebody else. I was very attracted to you, but I was being a good person and not stepping out on my current partner. But I will tell you that one of the first things I did, when I got back to champaign, was call him and end it so that you and I could go out on a date.

[02:37] DR. STEVE WILSON: And that was back in 19. 95.

[02:42] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: 96, something like that, yeah, I think 1996, yeah.

[02:46] DR. STEVE WILSON: Then we got married just two years later.

[02:47] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah.

[02:48] DR. STEVE WILSON: So tell me, what's your favorite memory of me?

[02:52] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, from a funny standpoint, one of my favorite memories is, in fact, our first date, where you pulled a rose out of your trombone case after the concert to charm me. And then we went to the music building on the u of I campus to drop off your trombone. And as we were entering the building, you were telling me that, oh, everybody says I'm a party guy and I'm kind of crazy, but I'm really not that guy. I'm very serious. You were trying to impress me. And the elevator door. The elevator dinged and the doors opened, and there were people on the elevator, and they took one look at you and they went, hey, party guy. You were so embarrassed, like your face would be, and you just dropped your head in. Shame was so funny.

[03:39] DR. STEVE WILSON: I didn't even know who that guy was.

[03:41] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah, obviously he knew you as the party guy. But, you know, my other favorite memory of you is actually a very heartfelt memory, which is. I remember when our son, Connor, had his surgery, and I had never seen you cry before. And when he came out of surgery, and he was just so. He looks so pathetic. Poor baby. And I looked at you and your face, you just had these great tears in your eyes, and you just were looking at him so tenderly. And I thought, I've chosen well. This is the man who's going to be the best father to my children.

[04:20] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, I remember that day. That was a hard day.

[04:23] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah.

[04:27] DR. STEVE WILSON: Well, tell me about how you identify as a person.

[04:32] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: So this is a good one. We were talking about this earlier, how we think of ourselves. So I'm a mom, I'm a wife, a singer, I'm a conductor of choirs and other musicians. I think of myself as an actor and an athlete and a good person, a collaborator, someone who's very passionate about teaching and about mentoring.

[05:09] DR. STEVE WILSON: Is that how it plays out in your life, in that order?

[05:11] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Mmm, I hope so. I mean, I definitely put people first. I put other people in my life before myself, I think almost to a fault sometimes. I'm like a lot of women who have jobs and have families. It's hard to achieve work life balance. And so I feel like I give and give to my family, and I give to you and the kids. I give a lot to my students and my colleagues. And I sometimes don't take care of myself, maybe the way that I should. So the singing part of it, I think, is even though I think of myself as a singer, third, because I grew up singing my whole life as my means of expression, I feel like at this point in my life, as a choral conductor at a university, I spend more of my time doing that, and I wish that I had more time to sing. So that's sort of. It is hard sometimes to balance that. How do you identify?

[06:11] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, for me, I'm a. I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a trombone player, but I'm also a spartan. I like to lift weights, be an athlete, and I'm a college professor, and I'm an administrator. And I would love it to be in that order every day, but a lot of times, the order gets mixed up or inverted.

[06:36] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right. The administrator part sometimes consumes things. Right.

[06:41] DR. STEVE WILSON: Right. So how do you balance, find work life balance?

[06:45] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: How do I find work life balance? Well, I have to plan out every day, and I do think that it's. People ask me all the time, how do you get it all done? Well, it's a day at a time. You know, you do your to do list, you go to bed, you wake up, you start down the list, and if I put exercise on my to do list, then I'm more likely to do it. If I put self care, I'm going to do my gratitude journal, or I'm gonna do my meditation, or I'm gonna go get my nails done, or, you know, whatever that is. If it's on the list, it happens, and if it's not, I won't think about it. It's definitely the first thing to go. I try to put the needs things that other people need to act first. Right. So this morning, I was asking myself, have I. What have I achieved here by 10:00 a.m. because I kind of felt like I hadn't done anything. And I thought, well, that's not true at all. I helped my daughter get to school. I helped her get set up for success with some things that she needed. I had helped you make a hair appointment. There were things that happened that were life things that were really important things, and the work came after that. So I actually called. That was a win in my mind that I had been able to put family first before I got to the. To the work part of it.

[08:15] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. For me, I. You know, as you know, I get up super early, and I like to get that exercise done first thing. And I remember there was a time when we. When I started doing p 90 x that you used to get frustrated because I would say, I'm gonna go work out now, and you're like, but so you're just gonna leave me with the three kids? And I knew that if I didn't schedule it and just go do it, that it just wouldn't happen.

[08:39] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right.

[08:39] DR. STEVE WILSON: And I think I've been really good about keeping that going.

[08:45] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, I actually.

[08:46] DR. STEVE WILSON: Scheduling things.

[08:47] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah, I was gonna say that that's actually one of the things I admire the most about you is your complete dedication to those pieces of your life that you need to be healthy mentally and physically, you know, that you make time to work out every day and to play your trombone almost every day. You used to always. I mean, it was every day now in balance with your administrator works and the different projects that we tackle. But I just find that very admirable, because, as I say, it's the first thing I'll drop as I'm trying to make everything happen. You know, the working out is going to go maybe not, you know, or practice singing, practicing my voice, keeping my voice in shape. You know, that's. It's very, very difficult to do it. And so I really admire that about you.

[09:42] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, I found, for me, the thing that works in all the different parts of my life that I have to do is having goals. You know, that, like, I just signed up for a couple spartan races, and so I know those are going to happen, and I know I don't want to fail. I don't want to be last place or fall apart in the middle of the race because they're so hard. And so that's really been a nice push to get outside and run, and then having performances scheduled, like this weekend at Texas Tech, doing a concert, knowing that that's happening. And so there's no better motivation than not wanting to suck at anything that you do. Right. So that really. And then, same thing with whether you're being a teacher or an administrator, having those big projects that are coming up, having those really help drive. Drive you through the day to make sure you get things scheduled and get things done.

[10:45] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: So, describe the work that you do.

[10:49] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. So, for me, in the job, I'm a. I like to think of myself as a trombone teacher first, and I'm also a trombone performer. That's part of the big. One of the big expectations of being a applied music faculty member at any university, and then I'm also an administrator running the department of music. And so those pieces have so much to them, right. And on different days in different times of year, each one requires more of my time, requires more of a commitment. Like just recently, we've had some turnover in the staff, so that's taken a lot of time and energy. But at the end of each semester, with juries, the students take precedent. And when we have concerts scheduled, the performing takes precedence. So there's a lot of pieces there. Those are the main elements of the job. What about you? What are the pieces of your.

[11:48] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: So I have a fancy title, which is director of choral activities. Right. And so that bears with it some expectations about coordinating a program and achieving a certain standard of excellence with my choirs, taking them on trips. Like you said, we're getting ready to go to Texas tech this weekend. One of the very cool things about working together at the university is that you and I have been able to create opportunities to perform and to take our students to perform together. And that's been really exciting. So, you know, we're gonna go do this big twelve trombone conference with the chamber singers and the trombones this weekend. But we just took them to Leeds, England, for our third trip overseas to perform in residency at Leeds Cathedral, which is one of the. The greatest pieces of my job. I look forward to it all the time. We've taken students to the kingdom of Bhutan to do opera Bhutan. And that was pretty amazing. And we're still talking about ways that we can create new projects so that we can do the trombone choir thing. It is on a daily basis. In addition to directing choirs, I'm also doing a lot of work online teaching because I'm a teacher in the online master's program and conducting. And so I really love that. But that is another piece to juggle. And I direct the children's choir at UTEP. So I'm working with all ages, all stages, which is wonderful. And I really, really love that. So I would say, you know, my perspective is I love my job. I can't imagine doing another job, actually. And I can't really imagine doing it somewhere else. Cause I love El Paso and I love my students at UTEp. I love my colleagues. I don't like administrative work. And I wish I didn't have to do so much of that. I just really like being on the podium. And I like teaching people how to sing in a choir. And I do miss teaching voice lessons some. So I always have a few private students at home going, so they keep my skills going on teaching people how to sing. But yeah, I think that what I do is pretty amazing.

[14:04] DR. STEVE WILSON: So you've been at UTEP for 25 years, and we were talking in the car before coming in today that our jobs as university professors are different because we're music people than other disciplines, that we're more project based. And so tell me about the most significant, most important project you think you've done in the last 25 years.

[14:23] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Oh, it's definitely opera. Bhutan, I mean, it was a two and a half year project. We took over 30 students and faculty to the kingdom of Bhutan, which is for people who don't know where that is. It's a little tiny kingdom between India and China. It takes two and a half days to get there. And we had students on that trip who had never been outside El Paso. And to see them fly there and be there for two and a half weeks, I think, on the ground working with a cast from all over the world, creating this amazing piece of art with bhutanese musicians and dancers and just that process and watching them grow, I think, is probably the most amazing experience of my life. Not to mention going there. It's the most beautiful place. And climbing to Tiger's nest, I can't think of anything more inspiring than being up at the top of that mountainous.

[15:26] DR. STEVE WILSON: Been up there twice now, right?

[15:28] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah, because we took one trip to scout a location to do the performance. So I feel there are not very many people in this world who've been to the kingdom of Bhutan, and I've been twice.

[15:40] DR. STEVE WILSON: It's too bad you didn't have a gopro on that first trip because that was just you and a small little group. Right, right. And you guys got to go see several different parts of the country.

[15:53] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, you know what? I don't have a gopro of it, but we actually had a videographer that traveled with us on that first trip for the entire trip. So there is video archived somewhere on the campus at UteP of that trip. And they used pieces of it when they were promoting the final performance that we did on campus. But, yeah, that was really a monumental project and just transforming for me in a lot of people. So I would put that at the top of my list. How about you? What's your. Your biggest achievement?

[16:28] DR. STEVE WILSON: I don't know if it was my biggest one because I. I got to go. But I had such a more minor role than you did. I remember being very happy that you got me on the trip. My own suggestion, actually. But you were.

[16:42] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, you were the executive producer, so it wasn't a minor role. It was. It was a really critical role, because you were dealing with all of the moving pieces and you were working behind the scenes so that the students and I could perform. Right.

[16:54] DR. STEVE WILSON: I just remember how crazy it was having because Bhutan was so primitive technologically at the time that there was no credit cards anywhere. So we had to have cash for everything. And so having $10,000 or more in cash on me to pay for everything Washington, daunting, was crazy. I was nervous.

[17:16] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Do you think that the performance at Carnegie hall was your great at Lincoln Center?

[17:20] DR. STEVE WILSON: Lincoln center at Lincoln center, yeah, absolutely. And that's so interesting because that was as a result of the opera Bhutan project. Right. That I ended up reaching out to Bruce Adolph, who runs chamber music at Lincoln center, and had him commission a work for me, ended up being for me and him, along with three members of the Silk Road ensemble, I asked him to do a work that was inspired by, influenced by the music of Bhutan. And so he actually did a work similar to Peter and the Wolf for Quintet and narration. That is the story of the four harmonious friends. That is a very popular, famous fable in the buddhist religion that is prevalent in Bhutan. Yeah. And so getting able to play that in Colorado several times at Princeton University and also at Lincoln center was really exciting. That that was definitely one of the high points of my trombone career. It was a lot of fun.

[18:25] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: So ask me another question.

[18:27] DR. STEVE WILSON: All right. So is this what you envisioned yourself doing when you were growing up? Did you imagine you'd be taking a group of students to Bhutan or even when you just started at UTEP? Is that what you thought would be happening?

[18:40] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: No, definitely not. You know, when I was growing up, I wanted to be. Well, first I wanted to be a professional viola player. I wanted to be in an symphony orchestra, and I grew up practicing to do that. But I always sang. My mom was a singer, not professionally, but had a beautiful voice. And I always sang with my mom growing up, and I just loved to sing. And so when I went to college, I was still pursuing viola Ann voice, and it ended up giving up the viola, which I actually regret quite a bit. I'm hoping in retirement to pick it back up again because I miss it. But I went down the voice route and I actually just really wanted to be the next barbra Streisand. She was my idol, and I just wanted to sing like her, and I just wanted to do that. And at some point. And I always worked with children. I babysat, I worked in YWCA summer programs. I liked kids a lot. And somewhere along the way, that singing morphed into. I want to be a music educator. And so I did that. And I taught high school choir before we moved here, and I loved it. And I still love high school kids, and I still really love working with young people, too. You know, the children's choir is kids ages seven to ten, and that's, you know, its own special animal. Lots of different skill sets that are required for that that I don't use with my college students. But I just always thought that I was going to sing, and then I discovered that I had an affinity and a passion for teaching, and that has never left me. So whether I'm teaching private voice lessons to students of all ages or whether I'm working with little kids or middle school age students, high school, I love working with my, my college students, and I always like to say that I'm a lifelong learner, and that's why I've never left college. I did three degrees, and then I just never left because I just wanted to stay there doing that. So I don't know that I envisioned being in this place, but definitely once I was in my doctoral work, I was aspiring to be a college professor in choral music. And so I feel really proud and happy that I've been able to find this niche and to create a space for myself and my students here at UTEP.

[21:06] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, for me, I definitely did not envision that I would be a trombone professor or chair of a department when I was growing up. And I'm like, you, I started on a different instrument that I ended on. I started on euphonium and switched over to bass trombone in 9th grade to play in the jazz band. And I just loved it so much, I just stuck with it. So that's all I've ever played. And I'm unusual in that most bass trombone is started on tenor trombone, so they can kind of play both. But I just. I went straight to just right on, right into bass trombone. But when I started at UTEP I actually went to Utep for my undergrad degree. I was a math majority first, and I was playing in the ensembles, but I decided that 07:00 a.m. calculus class was not very interesting anymore by about midterm. But I loved playing trombone. So I switched over to be a music major, and then I was music ed. I was planning on being a band director, but I just love playing the trombone so much that at the end of my undergrad degree, I thought, well, I'll just go for grad studies and let's see what happens. And so that's where I end up going. To University of Illinois, where you and I met. Yeah. And I had no idea where that was going to go. And I was so pleased when Ron Hofstadter called me and said, hey, we need a trombone teacher at UTEP. Our current person just resigned, and it's short notice. Are you done with your coursework? And I just happened to be. So I put together an audition packet and sent it in and ended up getting the one year job at UTEP

[22:46] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Which then became the tenure track job.

[22:48] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yep.

[22:49] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: You know, I don't know if you've ever thought of this, but I have often thought it that Ron Huffstader was the chair of the department when we came, and he was your trombone teacher and your band director, the wind ensemble director. And what an honor for him to call you and to offer you that job and to say he wanted to be your colleague. I just. I always thought that that was such a great gift and a great honor. And then, of course, we came and I had no job. I gave up my tenured high school teaching job to follow you because trombone jobs are so much scarcer than vocal jobs. Right. So I was really Hedgepeth took a chance on me, and he helped me create a position in the department, bit by bit, from just minor adjunct to a full time lecture.

[23:43] DR. STEVE WILSON: You, workshop part time in the first year and then full time lecturer the second year.

[23:46] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah. So we were really able to build a life together in this department. And to stay here all this time, it's just a really. It's been a blessing. Yeah.

[23:55] DR. STEVE WILSON: It's really rare for. For two people to work in the same departments that are married. It's just hard to get, especially tenure jobs. It's hard to find those.

[24:04] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Really hard.

[24:05] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. All right, so we talked about family a little bit. Right? So let's. Let's find that. So we. We talked about how we balance family life, musical life, and personal life. So we have three beautiful children. They are Connor, Ethan, and Katrina. They're currently 2018 and 15 years old. So they're a lot of fun. So how is being a parent changed you?

[24:28] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, it taught me that it's not all about me. Right. Before we had them, we had our own independent goals and dreams, and then we had each other, and we had a couple of wonderful years married before we had Connor. And being a parent changes everything. You can't know until you have one how it transforms every single piece of your life. But just fundamentally, you shift away from yourself to that person. And in this case, our people are three. And of course, each of them is their own unique and wonderful individual person. You know, they've each presented different challenges, and it's just been quite a path.

[25:27] DR. STEVE WILSON: I remember those days when you were pregnant with Connor, and we would go together to your doctor visits, and we would just take the whole day and just go to buy maternity clothes.

[25:42] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right.

[25:42] DR. STEVE WILSON: And the day we went to Chuck E. Cheese to just see what we were into getting into. We talk about how being a parent changes you. You know, one of the things I noticed from you that one of the defining moments was when Connor was diagnosed with craniosynostosis. He was seven months old, six months old.

[26:03] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: He was five months old when he was diagnosed.

[26:06] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. And then the doctor in El Paso, who's a neurosurgeon, described this horrific procedure, that they were gonna cut out his forehead and pound it back into the proper shape and put it back in.

[26:19] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Every bone in his face and then.

[26:21] DR. STEVE WILSON: Do it again when he was twelve years old or so. And you asked, isn't there any other way? Isn't there anything? And he said, no, that's the procedure. That's what we're gonna do. And they even scheduled the appointment without talking to us. And then. But you weren't satisfied with that and did your research, and I was not.

[26:42] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Having that at all. No.

[26:43] DR. STEVE WILSON: And you found the people in St. Louis who, or in Columbia who made a six inch incision and had a helmet. He had to wear a helmet for three.

[26:54] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: That was the children's hospital in Columbia, Missouri, affiliated with the University of Missouri. Right. And, yeah. No, that was a great example of how being a college student and a college professor trained me to be a really good researcher, because I just thought, surely there's got to be someone, somewhere who does something that's better and less invasive. Right. And so I found those wonderful. That husband and wife team, and they have since trained generations of teams of neurosurgeon and plastic surgeons that helped kids with this condition. And, in fact, you know, we were just driving down the highway down I ten in El Paso within the last month, and there is a billboard for the El Paso Children's Hospital with a little baby with the repositioning helmet. And they now have a team here in El Paso to do that surgery that we had to go two days away and stay at the Ronald McDonald house to have done for Connor. Yeah. That was a really defining moment as a parent, as you say. Because as I say, it's no longer about you personally. It's about your child. But they talk about mama bears and how fiercely protective that was it. I knew in that moment I was a mama bear.

[28:24] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, you were. I was in awe of your strength and your persistence and your unwillingness to just do whatever this person was saying they were going to do just because they happened to be here.

[28:37] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: I think it's interesting that Connor is now a Baylor bear, and so all of the mother t shirts, all the mom t shirts at Baylor are mama Bear. And I always think, yep, that's perfect for me, because for that kid, I was absolutely a mama bear. Right?

[29:02] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. You know, it's interesting just driving here, we passed the Ronald McDonald house, and I thought about that time.

[29:09] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah. I don't think there could be a better charity than the Ronald McDonald house. Helping families who've got kids that are going through medical procedures. It was. What a gift to be able to go there and stay and feel safe and protected.

[29:24] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. And being a parent, too, just makes you feel so vulnerable sometimes. I remember, of course, when Ethan was born, getting to hold him and then going home to be with Connor and getting the call that I need to come back right away because he might die.

[29:43] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right. He was born with beta strep pneumoniae, so he was immediately rushed to the. To the NICU, and. And we almost lost him. And now he's a great, big, strapping guy, going to college. It's an amazing thing, right?

[29:59] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. It is so funny, the perspective of it all that, you know, when Katrina was born, she had to be in the NICU for seven days because of jaundice or something, and it was like, oh, that's it. That's nothing.

[30:14] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: You know, it didn't seem like anything.

[30:16] DR. STEVE WILSON: Last time we were in the. The high level. This seems like, yeah, she's just a little yellow. That'll pass. No big deal. Just put her in the sun.

[30:26] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: These are the things that give you perspective on what's really important in life. And when we talk about work, life balance, it's so easy to get consumed by all the stuff at work and the challenges. And personally, for sure, you and I complement each other very, very well because you're much more laid back, generally speaking, and I'm a total control freak, so it's really easy for me, personally, to just get consumed by all of that stuff that I can't control and to lose sight of what's really important, which is you and the kids and just, like, enjoying the now and the things that I can control. Those big defining moments with the kids along the way have really helped me at this point in my life to have a much better perspective on what's important in life.

[31:31] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. I was going to ask you, so if you could talk to yourself in the past, what would you tell yourself? What advice would you give God?

[31:37] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Be present. Be present. Enjoy what's happening in the moment, and let go of all that stuff that you just can't control. Right. It's the whole serenity prayer in motion. Right. You have to be able to figure out what are the things that you can control and what are the things you can't, and just let go of all that stuff so that you can have a more fulfilling life. I feel like there are. We had wonderful times with our children. I mean, I. I don't think I would change anything, but I do know that there were times that I let myself get too consumed with work, and I missed. I probably missed some key things that I wish I hadn't. You know, that's what I would tell myself, like, be present. How about you?

[32:30] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. For me, I would tell myself to nothing. Let the daily challenges get to get me down too much. It's easy to get bogged down by what you think are major problems, major issues, when, in fact, oftentimes they're not. And they get resolved, you know, one way or another, they get fixed.

[32:54] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right.

[32:54] DR. STEVE WILSON: And life moves on. Right. Life goes on. And I know there were, especially being a new chair. In my early days of chair, I cared so much, and I really didn't want to mess it up. And so I did spend so much time trying to make sure I was covering all the bases. And then when we experienced as a department a few challenges that were significant, I remember how upset it made me, how stressed out I would get. And if I could go back in time, I would tell myself, just calm down. It's okay. You know, just these things will. This, too, shall pass.

[33:36] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right.

[33:37] DR. STEVE WILSON: It's a good thing to think about.

[33:39] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah.

[33:41] DR. STEVE WILSON: Well, we've been working at UTEP for 25 years.

[33:44] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah.

[33:45] DR. STEVE WILSON: And retirement is in sight. It's not around the corner, but we can see there's a light there. What do you see for the next stage of your life?

[33:57] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Well, I don't see myself sitting around the house much. I feel at this point, especially if we stay in El Paso, most of the music teachers, the choral music teachers, are my former students, and they're people that I care very much about and that I feel I will want to continue to help them and to be present in the schools and to be helping young people in the city to be better singers and better choral musicians. So I feel like I will still. I will retire my teaching, but I don't feel like I will retire my mentoring. I definitely think I'll probably still teach voice lessons, because, like I said, I love helping people sing better. It's been such a wonderful way for me to express myself. I like to help people do that better, and I really look forward to our kids having adult lives past college, and they're going to be. Who knows where they'll be, and we'll be able to go visit them and see them. I hope we have grandchildren. I look forward to that very much. I look forward to our adventures together. We love to travel, and so I anticipate we will continue to do that, and I'm really looking forward to that.

[35:18] DR. STEVE WILSON: That's a lot. I'm looking forward to grandkids, where you get to play with them and hug them, but you give them back when it's time to change the diapers.

[35:26] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Right on. That is so true.

[35:30] DR. STEVE WILSON: I can tell you, for me, the short term retirement is not being chair anymore. And just getting to be a trombone performer and a trombone teacher again and doing that for a while, I could see doing that for a good stretch of time because, to me, that really is enjoyable. And again, is that saying, if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life? To me, that's what being a trombone teacher is. It's just pure enjoyment.

[35:57] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Yeah. And I do love my job. I think as I continue in the job, as I get better at managing the administrative side of it, in balance with the creative side of it, I think it will take me a long time to get really, truly tired of the job. So, you know, I look forward to continuing in a positive and passionate way with my position for a long time.

[36:27] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah. For me, post, like, if I'm not working at UTEP anymore, I definitely see myself still playing trombone and chamber ensembles just around town and things, but maybe getting into personal training and, of course, you know, I have talked a lot about traveling and just exploring the world would be a lot of fun.

[36:44] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Oh, and I'm going to get back to being in musicals. Musical theater is my, and I haven't been able to do it, so when I have time to do it, I am totally auditioning for shows. Can't wait.

[36:57] DR. STEVE WILSON: Okay, so let's have a fun one. So, tell us something about you that most people would never have guessed was.

[37:03] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: True, that I'm an introvert. People think they see me on the podium and they see me teaching and they think that I'm like, this way out there, super extroverted person. And it is so not who I am. But I think that that's my musical theater background. Right? That my teaching Persona, it's not that it's not authentic. It is, but it is, in fact, a Persona that I assume when I am in that piece of my life and in my regular home life, I'm just not that person at all. And it's. People are usually really shocked to hear that. What do you think is true for you? Something that no one would ever guess about you.

[37:49] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah, I guess it kind of relates to retirement, too. I do have dreams of. Of doing voiceover work that could be a lot of fun. And so as a hobby, I enjoy taking the videos for kids for Christmas time, the Santa videos, and taking the audio off and putting my own audio in and doing my. Especially for Ethan.

[38:13] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Ho, ho, ho.

[38:14] DR. STEVE WILSON: It's your old pal Santa, wishing you a really merry Christmas. And I always try to tell Ethan, and I'm coming to get you. I always have these little things in there that's always fun.

[38:26] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: And I think people would be interested to know that you are the king of creating scavenger hunts.

[38:33] DR. STEVE WILSON: Oh, yes.

[38:35] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Every holiday has a scavenger hunt related to finding a gift or an Easter basket or. Katrina's 11th birthday was epic. We created the scavenger Huntley through the whole neighborhood.

[38:49] DR. STEVE WILSON: Was that 1010 girls screaming down the street running? Our neighbors thought they literally asked us, do we need to call the police? Is everything okay? Because they were racing to win.

[39:02] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: I have one last question for you.

[39:03] DR. STEVE WILSON: Yeah?

[39:05] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: What would you like for people to say about you when you're gone?

[39:10] DR. STEVE WILSON: That I was a good friend, that I was a good colleague, and that I was fun to be around. How about you?

[39:22] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: I would like people to say that they loved me, that they knew they were loved by me, that they respected me, and that they knew I was always there for them. I think that's. That's it in a nutshell.

[39:46] DR. STEVE WILSON: Well, that's great. Well, this has been a lovely conversation. This is Steve Wilson wrapping it up for StoryCorps. And Elisa Wilson.

[39:56] DR. ELISA FRASER WILSON: Thanks for the conversation. Yeah, I enjoyed it.

[39:59] DR. STEVE WILSON: Me too.