Earl Nissen and Jill Kindrick

00:01 I'm Jill kindrick. I'm 59. Today is March 3rd 2020. We're on the campus of New Mexico State University in Las Cruces, New Mexico. I'm interviewing my dad or illnesses.

00:14 And I am Earl Nissen and I am 88 soon-to-be 8901 today March 3rd 2020 and we are in the krwg station at the MSU campus and I am being interviewed with my daughter Jill dead. The reason I wanted to do this with you is because I think your experiences in Africa were interesting and people should know about it, but to start your military experience you were in ROTC at Bowling Green.

00:54 So how did you get into that? Well, when I signed up for ROTC it was voluntary and I knew it would be a for your program. And what year was this when you started started Bowling Green in 1949?

01:14 So at the end of it, I knew I would be commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Army and then I would have a 2-year active duty obligation.

01:29 But before I did the ROTC, I did two years with the Ohio National Guard.

01:38 When you're in high school and we would train a Camp Perry, Ohio. I was a tank driver. So I got to learn about how you can Crush things with a big object. ROTC. When I first started to Bowling Green, they recruited us and out of that. We were trained to be artillery officers and we did some time at the Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

02:20 During a summer camp that we learned more about forward observing and so on. So when we left Bowling Green the Korean War had just finished in 53 53 and but they didn't know when

02:47 Oh, so I went out then your mother and I took teaching jobs in Adrian, Michigan.

02:55 And I didn't get to finish that school year cuz I got active duty orders in April end of April. So I had to leave and and your mom stayed finish out her teaching you were there. And then that's when we went to, Lawton, Oklahoma.

03:15 And at Lawton at Fort Sill

03:22 I was put on a team of officers to help develop the firing tables for a new secret weapon. We were developing called a 280 mm gun the big guns and wood fire Atomic Warheads, which was unheard of in the 50s. We take this big monster out on the firing range, and I was a safety officer one day and I had command of the whole firing mission for the day.

03:59 And even a general couldn't supersede me saying it safe or unsafe to fire. So we kept and firing different trajectories and then all of a sudden one was plotted and I said it was unsafe to fire.

04:18 And I was screaming this into a microphone and and there were radio radio's out all around the the big gun and everybody heard me saying, you know, I'm safe to Fire and all of a sudden I heard.

04:37 Coming back feedback on on the radio that someone was screaming fire the damn thing.

04:49 So I picked up my binoculars and I looked down where the gun was.

04:54 And there was a colonel telling the firing battery Sergeant fire it and I'm screaming unsafe but the brother threatened by firing battery sergeant and Kaboom. They fired it in the round landed in a housing development in Lawton, Oklahoma.

05:18 And it took out Eight houses.

05:21 And thank God there was a rodeo going on in town and all the people were at the parade except in one house. There was a 72 year old woman.

05:34 And I jumped in the jeep was my buddy. And we got there just when the fire department's arriving and they found the elderly lady and hauled her off to the hospital cuz she was pretty beaten up, but it ended up I

05:55 I had to go to a courts-martial that Colonel who was drunk at the time and he ended up getting 10 years in the Lompoc California disciplinary barracks, and he was reduced to a lieutenant and then that was evident. We had a but then well, I remember we were at a family reunions and relative of a friend of mine.

06:27 Was he was listening to you and my brother was there and my brother recognize when you said something about a 280 mm gun cuz it was so unusual turns out this guy this relative of a friend. He was one of the enlisted men who was there that day who said we heard the safety officer, which was you dad say unsafe to fire. So he was one of the guys who got you out of the jail. He was at the court-martial after we started comparing their with their mouths open while they were reminiscing about this story even went to that relatives church and he stood up in church and talked about so that was not fair. That was away my military career began.

07:24 Fort Lewis Fort Lewis at the end of the Korean War they brought the 2nd Infantry Division back or division lost out of 18600 men. They lost 9,000 and so it was our job to get new recruits into the division and build it back up by training artillery crew members and so on.

07:52 So anyhow, I did my two years and then I was determined to get my Master's Degree. So I went back to Bowling Green.

08:03 And got my masters in 1957.

08:08 And that's when your brother was born.

08:11 And I went right to Columbia University to get my doctorate and in September of 57.

08:23 So I was there for one full year and part of the next semester and then we had that big automobile crash where my parents right? We're in and two people were killed and it was it was just an awful thing. So I took a year off Columbia to help out with the family.

08:48 But then when we got back, your mom was very pregnant with you and you were born in March 31st, 1960 and every year, I think therefore not having me a day later on April. So while I was at Columbia, we didn't own a house yet or anything and we just entered her brother was now almost three when it Go and so we are we were Columbia. I went to a recruiter for the Department of Defense schools and talk to him you gave me all the scoop on the positions and

09:37 I found out there was an elementary school principal ship at wheelus Air Force Base in Tripoli Libya. This is 1966 - 1960 Jets. They were so prop planes and we flew to Libya and out of Norfolk Virginia. What did your parents think about that place? They were born. Well when you say Africa, I remember my mother said, oh my God the natives O'Boyle you so far in for them know what we got to go to map out and find out where it was.

10:31 Show me all the bass out about 3,000 Americans. It was a big gun.

10:40 A baseboard rotation of pilots in and out of Europe and the United Kingdom the practice bombing and strafing on the Sahara Desert and

10:54 So they had a big high school and middle school and Elementary School just for the military dependents. And so

11:08 Soon as we got the Tripoli I'm winning. Well, the base was 14 miles away from the city of tripling right on the Mediterranean.

11:21 And are we had to order a big the popular car at that time was the VW Beetle there were about 10,000 of my think of the bass all looked alike. But that was a popular car. So I had ordered one in AAA, but the dealer gave me a loaner VW Beetle had a base sticker on the whole thing.

11:49 And so on September 20th of the school started the nothing was the 12th or 15th of August cuz I remember end at the end of school. By the way, the playground was the Mediterranean Sea cuz that a beach right outside the school.

12:09 Yes, we even had some some days. We had a water day where the kids are coming their bathing suits and oh my God, this is really really score chart running out on September 20th. I decided to go into Tripoli to see if our VW had arrived while we were there only a month like a month since about six weeks.

12:43 And I've gotten the school opens and got all the teachers squared away and I'll I will we will want to roll so but I went into Tripoli and I'm doing this 14 miles to a couple little suburb like one called cycle Juma and I came back and I was just going through a cycle Juma and they had a big Stadium there where they sheets would bring their Arab Reba courses in and race them jeans on and you had the right then there was a road right along the back the back of the stadium was right up to the edge of the road.

13:33 And on the other side the river villas with big high walls.

13:38 And so I had to go down and so I turned and I'm entering almost like a tunnel that I got the stadium on one side and the big houses on the other side and I was about halfway through it all of a sudden a bus backed out from the Villas and right up against the back of the stadium and I couldn't go any place and then all I remember seeing bodies of people running running and ever coming towards when I car.

14:11 And they pulled me out of the car.

14:15 And then they proceeded to throw rocks and broken glass but they held you on the car spread eagle up against the side of the car and then the rock throwers or you know right in front of me.

14:39 This went on for a little while and and they shove the stick in my mouth and cut my tongue you have and

14:49 It's what I was bleeding pretty profusely.

14:53 And then my eyes went shut because they would the Rocks were hitting me and just closing my eyes. I kind of like pass out and then I fall down in the ground they pick me back up and and so on. So anyhow, I was down on the ground once and a voice and very broken English said to me stay on the ground police are coming with all the roads around there were four trolled by military police riding the tandem with triple tinea policeman US military police u.s. Military Air Force actually.

15:34 So I heard the siren and then I felt somebody picking me up and and I couldn't see anything of course, but they've got me into the base. And the last thing I remember seeing was wife and kids in transit hotel and then I passed out and I was unconscious for almost 3 days.

15:58 And they made an assessment.

16:03 Army

16:04 I had a skull fracture brain concussion and all the facial bones were broken in and pushed in. So they made a decision they couldn't do anything about me there so they airlifted me to Wiesbaden Germany. And yeah, well, I remember when I was a kid and we were at your parents house my grandparents house and somebody said something about Livia Livia and everyone got quiet and you took me and Randy my brother into another room and kind of what we had never heard this story before every time I hear it I hear something.

16:49 Throw any all the I got into Wiesbaden?

16:54 And they have flown it cuz this was just the beginning ception of plastic surgery at that time 1962 full colonel in from England doctor plastic surgeon and they patched me up. I had a I had to take my passport along so they check make my face look something like I used to look like and live and do you want to give credit to the person behind all this attack in the hospital in Germany?

17:40 What night are you good? I spent almost two months in Germany and the CIA was investigating and sell 190 CIA guy came into my room and said no, I'll tell you what we found that he played a tape for me the night before I got beaten up.

18:08 They had a rally in cycle Juma.

18:12 And they gave people bags of rice to come in until the barrale.

18:18 And they got the crowd chanting one dead American one dead American and

18:25 And CIA guy said well, we found out it was an 18 year old.

18:33 Rebel leading demonstrations against King Idris King Idris was in charge of the country at that time and this guy's name was Muammar Qaddafi 18 18 years old and he was at influential ready and getting people to go against King address. It's just that all around starvation was just unbelievable around there. So I got better.

19:08 And I got back. Well while I'm there the superintendent of the dependent schools came to see me and he said you've got two choices. You can either go back to the states or we have a principal ship open in lakenheath England at an Air Force Base, which has a big hospital and you'll probably need more medical attention. So I'm so you got two choices either go back to the states or to lakenheath, England.

19:37 So I called your mom and I kind of joke brother. I said, you know, what? Why don't we go to England if I get in a fight there, maybe I can talk to him. Well the thing about about you getting attacked as you were the next American it wasn't so they wanted me to get out of there because it was an international incident.

20:09 And by me being around there would remind others of you know, what could happen to them. So so I don't know why it was really weird.

20:26 And then they usually wait until it was a military Air transport in Matt's flight to get you to England, but they wanted me out of there in such a big hurry that the book the song boac flight out of the commercial airport.

20:50 And so here we are they pick us up and Military station wagon, and they had a a Jeep with a 50 caliber machine gun on it in front of us and one in back of us.

21:09 You are

21:10 Okay-ish. Are we still in bandages? But it was okay then do I need this on a Sunday morning? Here we go. And we get off to the get off to go on the plane. They drove is right up to the plane. And so we go up the steps and they had cleared the whole first class cabin.

21:44 And we had two armed guards with big guns and I'm carrying you and Mom is got Randy leading them up those steps to the plane. So we get in there and and you could see all the people that were already on board. And here we are the first class cabin all by ourselves. You can see all these people hanging out of their seats like to soldiers with guns. So they fluids from Catania, Sicily and then to Rome and the London so we were in England by late that night and so then we went to the American Officers Club stay over.

22:44 Until they got us to go over the base was 90 miles north of London that I was we were going to

22:51 And so while I was in the hospital

22:57 And that all of our furniture all of our belongings arrived and we're sitting in Conex boxes on the the in a warehouse in Tripoli as we weren't in Tripoli long enough to go into the house that we were going to move into know we had a we had a contract to move into Georgia and properly which was an All-American suburb of the right outside the base and we never got there, but I got back from Germany on a Friday and on Saturday.

23:35 They took us to the warehouse and we they took everything out of the boxes. And we inventory that all they had it all scattered all over this Warehouse. I put a right back and boxes and put a back on a boat for England and Lake Anna you there were no housing on available on the base and I'm glad because we got the live out on the English economy. We got to live in a little town called croxton.

24:14 And we moved into a 640 year old Squires mansion and Nabi, but that's probably the guy who created three Apartments made out of Flintstone know that place have no sad. No Central Heating.

24:54 We have these little Aladdin heaters and and so on so we we live there.

25:01 And then I did another get you here. You know, I know I said that I want to go home drivers. Oh, yeah, that was so interesting because the base was a Sac base They Carried Atomic warheads and in case there was an attack we had 1100 kids in the elementary school and they're all these Quonset Huts and what they were called Nissen huts and they were actually made by some real distant relative who won World War II came along they converted from making gymnastic equipment to making these Quonset hut because one day I'll never forget. I was walking around with the British Air Ministry guy and

26:01 Is there to check the buildings? I was going to stop me kept talking to you said what was missing hot the look what they did here and all that and then all the sudden looks of my name badge is he says it was really a funny experience but

26:20 So it was it was interesting because it showed us a contrast living out on the economy living in that old Squire's mansion in that little town. It showed us a contrast between how the English people dealt with the military people cuz I was civilian.

26:42 I would call me your mom and I would get invited to the Deptford mayor's wife's tea or something, but they wouldn't invite the military. It was it was so it was a funny thing to observe about the bus drivers cuz we had to be ready to move those 1100 kids in case there was an attack on the base.

27:13 So we had enough English buses like 25-30 of them something. I can't remember. It was just the whole parking lot. And these buses had to be available on a moment's notice to move out all the kids. So the bus drivers had one Quonset one Nissen Hut where they would sit and drink tea and Scotch. It was a nice thought of you know, getting out of driving a bus remember once but you wouldn't know any of those things like they had to hire those people just in case but we had to have one annual drill.

28:09 To do this. So we there was an abandoned English army base up on the North Sea, which was about the news about 45 miles.

28:23 And the the evacuation plan was all the kids on the bus drive the 45 miles and enter the barracks of the old abandoned English army base. And so I'll never forget that day and take a nap and I hope they had to do much, you know tea and Scotch. So then I came back to the United States and I did.

29:09 What about a year-and-a-half? Cuz I had the first I didn't we didn't get the England. It would just about Christmas time from that. I was in the hospital from well about the third week in September and I think it was the first or second week in December when I got back but we got the india-england in time for Christmas cuz we put up a Christmas tree. I remember doing that when we came back. I was in elementary school principal in Caldwell, New Jersey then I did more time with the public schools all the way to being a superintendent for short. Time. Never want to do that again. And so I

30:04 The next experience I had with the military was when we were living in, New Jersey or Nevada.

30:17 Which was part of the 38 years I put into the public schools, but I then went from working as an assistant superintendent in Churchill County Nevada, which is Fallon Nevada, and I went to work for the Navy there is a naval air station in Fallon, Nevada and what they the purpose of that basis they would park an aircraft carrier either in San Diego or in Bellingham, Washington.

30:50 And they bring all of the planes 50 or 60 of them the Fallon and they'd stay there for three to four months to do training and repair the aircraft and all that. So then I got high was the child development program administrator for the Fallon Naval Air Station. So that would be my fourth experience with military. So I had been in the Army I've been to National Guard has been principal of an Air Force school. And now I was head of the child development program for a navy base and I had top security clearance. So I got to go to all the Admirals meetings and and all is it was an interesting experience at Fallon and left there in 1999.

31:44 And then I came to where we live now and I thought at Dona Ana Community College for 14 years. I thought a human development and behavior class that was required for nursing students. And so I guess today I can't go in a doctor's office or hospital. If you can come without knowing well, hello there my youngest daughter had different last name.

32:26 So what up, my funniest story about knowing people I went in for a colonoscopy. And you know, it says Bill Gates going here to take clothes off and put you on this Gurney. So they put me on his journey to push me into the exam room and buck naked, you know, and okay roll over on your side. So I'm doing that and then I feel a slap on my butt and this voice says you didn't look like this in class. She's just laughing so well with this interview

33:20 We talked about Libya the most cuz to me that was like just it was such a huge thing. And and I like to say I don't hate anybody but I was not sad when Qaddafi go to the finals thing about working for the Air Force at that time. I had to be interviewed by two psychiatrists at the lakenheath base Hospital.

33:47 And this was just prior to his flying back to the States and they had like a debriefing ESD or whatever and I am the one one psychiatrist was rather subdued. He didn't say too much for one was very aggressive and he started on me by saying you might you might have to be hating all Arabs after what happened to you.

34:19 And I'm looking at him. You know what I'm listening and then he he kept insisting on I said no, that's not true. Anybody says well that I can understand you so traumatized by what happened and all you do is see those Arab faces every time you close your eyes. I said no that I kept insisting on this and I even said to him, you know, what what happened to me could have happened on the corner of 125th and Broadway in New York City by some gang attacking me, you know this one on for about a half an hour the other guy made a few comments.

35:00 And I just finally got up and said f you and I tore up the form that they had me ready to sign to say that I was traumatized by Arabs and so on and so that was my farewell.

35:25 Do I know the difference cuz I think I had a brush with death once and

35:41 You're just happy to be alive I think is is part of it, or I know it. I mean it sucks that.

35:53 Is hearing about somebody being taken as a hostage something in the dudes, you know, I instantly replay getting hit by the rocks. Oh, well, I never heard that before. No just happened a couple weeks ago. There was something then Syria and right away.

36:19 Get all uses free play it but I don't hate Arabs. I mean that was a bad Bunch, but they did it for Rice. I mean just think of how how they were taught as kids and what they were taught to believe in and they thought they were when we were there long enough to learn a little about the culture. I remember the teachers one day wanted to have a coffee with all of the women that worked in our kitchen. So we set this all up after school one day and I'm sitting Silas young girl.

37:04 And I'm talking to her and it at that moment will that time a Health Report? It just been published by the triple thanea government that the infant mortality rate by 1 year old was 60% 60% of those kids died. And anyhow, I said to her if if this is true, why do your families at five six kids and I'll never get this. She said maybe one of them will live think about that.

37:52 And nothing like the poverty and how those people live there. It was just incredible and Kadafi didn't help any.

38:03 Just think he went on for Zito overthrew King address in 2007 or eight one of the other and then he stay there. He was there forty some years as a dictator. It was pretty got his start on the streets and I just happened to be there at the wrong time, but he did thanks for sharing this and thanks for all you did for all those kids in 5th grade. They been in four different schools, you know, they've been in four different locations and then saw you saw you, you know, I'm pathetically lived with all of those at Fallon we had mother a couple

38:57 Couples that were both F-16 Pilots the one would go on an aircraft carrier for 18 months and then he or she would come home and then next one goes to those poor families. Those kids had to live through all of that. So we've dealt with a lot of traumatic events. And so it was really interesting.

39:24 All right. Oh, thanks Daddy. Thank you. Thank you for being my daughter two and a half years ago. Dementia.

39:43 How's that?

39:53 And everything I said.