Edoardo Kulp and Dominic Crapuchettes

Recorded February 23, 2020 Archived February 23, 2020 38:11 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddf000473

Description

Edoardo Kulp (50) speaks with his coworker Dominic Crapucchettes (50) about the origins of North Star Games, his board game company.

Subject Log / Time Code

DC speaks about North Star Games, getting into board games at a young age with family, his father putting him in chess tournaments, and the toys he would play with as a child. DC recalls creating a board game in 8th grade and having it banned from his school.
DC remembers playing early computer and board games, and speaks about stigmas between “normal people” vs. “nerds or socially awkward people.”
DC speaks about his family’s attitude of being idealistically driven vs. financially, working in Alaska every summer as a fishing captain, and testing new board games with his crew.
DC remembers college and playing Magic The Gathering.
DC tells the story of a major storm on his fishing boat that inspired him to leave the business to get into board games.
DC recalls going to get an MBA in order to start his board game company, and the early days of his business. DC discusses game design and artistry, and how board games reflect the society they are made in.
DC speaks about the early days of going on the road to sell his board games, and the “MBA sweatshop” in his basement, where they initially constructed the games. EK and DC reflect on the success and ups and downs of the past few years.
DC speaks about quitting his family’s fishing business, and his parents.

Participants

  • Edoardo Kulp
  • Dominic Crapuchettes

Recording Locations

Jacob K. Javits Convention Center

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service

Transcript

StoryCorps uses Google Cloud Speech-to-Text and Natural Language API to provide machine-generated transcripts. Transcripts have not been checked for accuracy and may contain errors. Learn more about our FAQs through our Help Center or do not hesitate to get in touch with us if you have any questions.

00:01 I'm edoardo. Kulp. I'm 50 years old. Today is February 23rd 2020. We're here at the international Toy Fair in New York City. I am at interviewing Dominic crapuchettes. He is for lack of a better term my boss. I work for him at North Star games.

00:22 I am Dominic crapuchettes. My age is 50 today's date is February 23rd 2020. I'm at the Javits Center in New York City at toy fair and edoardo. Kulp is interviewing me. We work together for 6 years.

00:40 Dominic so you have a great story and gave me I've always admired and I've always found it really just fascinating. But first, let me tell me what you do what you do today today. I am the founder of a company called North Star games and we design original board games published them manufacture them Market them and get them out of the hands of people to have fun. We've sold millions of copies you come to this point because I've heard that you you kind of started that are you at you've been interested in games for basically most of your life. So weird weird that interest come from when did you really start getting kind of into board games? That's a really good question.

01:30 I have loved games my whole life we played so our family doesn't watch much or didn't what I think I actually as a kid we watch no television don't ever remember seeing watching television. We played a lot of board games played a lot of games at a lot of family time. So we played Hearts Monopoly. Sorry risk. Klassics. Klassics Yahtzee, I mean a whole bunch of games charades. So at Adam holiday events, we play a lot of straight and ski trips. We went skiing maybe 20 times a year. So whenever we had like a weekend ski trip, we play a lot of Charades a lot of passwords a lot of board games. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Southern California. Okay, so Pasadena and my dad also taught me chess when I was four and he would put me into competitions and and so I was up.

02:30 The pretty good chess player. I was like Pasadena Elementary chess champion for two years in a row and I was ranked well rated not so so pretty good for normal people not chess players games have taken like I've been a big part of my life from social party games to family games with, you know, the entire family to like competitive strategy games and actually been my favorite form of entertainment for most of my life. I just had with a perhaps a little bit of a DD really enjoyed the interactive nature of board games where you get to participate in in the activity did that lead them to you designing games? Because I know you me of design many games you have made that we sell at North Star games. So I'm just kind of curious on how that love and you know, two to really understand how to make a game into to create.

03:30 Where did that come from? When did that begin?

03:34 Yeah, that's a good another good question. I would say my first love was Legos. Will Tinker Toys Lincoln Logs and Legos. So I really enjoyed building things and creating things and Lego I would say was a love for 10 15 years. So I had a huge Lego collection and built very rarely built what I was like built follow the instructions, I would just create tons of stuff the earliest board games. I remember designing maybe 6th grade. I remember doing a big complicated fantasy castles wargame. I have no idea what inspired that I think Dungeons & Dragons may be around at the time. And so I maybe I took chest and applied like a complicated like Medieval theme to it.

04:28 Remember designing games in 7th grade. I remember designing a game and eighth-grade which played with classmates in school and got so popular that they banned it from school. Wow. Wish I was very proud of did you ever think of taking that any further? I mean or what? What what was the what was the result of that anywhere you would just upset or did you continue playing it outside in school bad nerd in Den. How did your friends react to that or to even to your games? They they all loved it. It sounds like a small group of friends. So maybe four of us are five of us. And then I guess they started playing with their friends because you know how I kept being amazed at like what they're playing OK and until I got to be maybe 30 or 40 people in our class and what would happen if you would take a turn during your class during like. One and then you'd in between periods handed off to your friend and then they

05:28 Turn during. Back and forth. And so it was clearly disrupting class, I guess.

05:35 One of my friends

05:41 Took a copyright on the game took like God of form and I started filling out a copyright, which I think is quite an expensive and I remember being a little bit confused because I didn't know what intellectual property manager copyright was. I was having fun. That's all I cared about and he was saying well if you want to do a businesslike and make money with a name like what is this money? I got it, whatever do whatever you want. That's fine. And so I actually have in a folder in my house like the copyright for him that he filled out and never went any further than the four because I really didn't care. So my dad was raised in China by missionaries. And so there was a very like non-money non-career way of approaching like that. So no the hell I did like earning money out of it just seemed weird to me. I was like, that's weird.

06:41 Doing that then as well as you went along. I mean you would that was maybe 8th grader. So so hot did it did it start, you know, you think of new games new ways of playing games. Where did where did you go after that? So then I went to a boarding school for high school and computer games computer games were quite name of the Apple 2E remember well,

07:19 So way back then Dungeons & Dragons had a pretty bad stigma. So I was also played a lot of sports and so I had a hard time convincing my friends to play a role playing game. So I would play with kind of very awkward friends that that really I remember just normal people. Sorry that the verb for being disparaging to people but but some very socially awkward people that would a lot of times like bring the story two things. I wasn't interested in like trying to pick up girls at a bar and I'm like, what is a role playing game at I really and so what I found is

08:06 I couldn't really get people to play with me until I was a junior at the boarding school and I was kind of like up a cool kid and what we call those other people the gamer nerds, right? Is that what it was? So immersed having so much fun and I was a horrible student and a very misdirected child so class for me was designing modules and stories and characters in putting together role-playing stuff for the weekends at school. And then we would stay up all night over and over what you do it. Got to the point where the sun is coming up again.

08:58 3 hours later would be like, okay, let's go to breakfast and then go to bed. And so I created my own role-playing system. So complete a hole because I couldn't I didn't like the way that Dungeons & Dragons back then worked. And in fact, the system that I created is very similar to kind of some of the more modern systems and then in high school, my senior economics paper was a business plan. I don't know why my economics paper was a business plan, but it was was a business plan for a game company that I wanted to start. Okay. And so I have a pretty I still have it. It's it's like a eight pages of nothing about like game ideas and and product ideas in a byproduct Centric so I had no understanding of business at all.

09:54 And I'm and I was my dream I couldn't think of anything else that I wanted to do when I graduated that all just kind of stem from that was a baby the first game and 8th grade reading before I head out it obviously but everytime I hear this story. I almost always amazed by it being a but obviously there is there's much more to the story. So what so so high school led to I'm going to try sounds like your whole story here, but it's all good. It's it's obviously involving games and and you're the quintessential gamer nerd after that, you know, so so, I mean that you could you take a business plan and bring it out, you know know I had no business mother had no money anytime. She got money she gave it to the church and the church took care of her. We had no business sense at all that we were like idealistically driven.

10:55 So, let's see my every year my life until I was Thirty. I've gone up to Alaska in the Summers toga work on the fish with my dad had a fishing boat. My mom had a setnet site. And so I worked on the setnet site when I was younger and then I started working on the boat. And then I took over that operations going to have to tell me those what is said that site 100 in Alaska above the Aleutian Islands the tides go up and down between 15 feet at like a small tied to like 30-something feet. So I sent that site is where you actually set a net to the beach When the tide would come up fish would come in. So this is a sockeye salmon and wild Alaskan sockeye salmon come and get caught When the tide would go down you go flopping to the mud.

11:40 Take me fishing and feeding them and then flying them out on a plane that would land on the beach because literally there were six cabins with him.

11:52 3 miles of where I was at we were just a cabin you could see a cabin way over there and you can see a cabin way over there and

12:01 And so you were delivering the fish so we would catch at that and then getting the fish to like a cannery was very tough, but it will usually involve planes that summons helicopters to stay on the bus. So you got up. So what you spent the Summers up on the boat and then so I took over my parents fishing operation kind of curious what you did in between if it was just you know, I don't know how long the season runs but you know, what kind of curious if you know, even because I know your love of games like, you know, was that still kind of there, you know even during that time and that's just something interesting tangent, you know in life to go in like I'm going to happen the fishing boat. Did you still have that love and everything? Okay, no games by poor crew members would I would I would play Test games of them into work for crew member of Siesta? Okay.

13:01 Yeah, but it was fun. We had it made a fun time doing that. Lets see three words by me again. So you were still designing games kind of weather in your hand me where you actually making like little prototype then obviously if you were tending card games at Gamestop, so let's see if it was between 6 weeks in 8 weeks into months out of every summer and I would earn enough to live off of and I then went to college during the year. And actually it took me quite a few years ago to Collin College maybe seven years because of it also and it was expensive. So I paid about $120,000 for my own education and that was mostly from saving money up in Alaska and getting jobs and working part time during school and going to school part time and I played a lot of professional magic you during those years when I wasn't up in Alaska, I I was invited to

14:01 Game called Magic the Gathering Lee and the special circuit $30,000 doing that over like five years. Did you just kind of learn how to play it or did you guys I'm not sure when magic came out. So I mean was that something that was you just started learning it and just became a professional from it. I mean, he's leave you I mean, I just loved it my friend of mine introduced the game to me maybe quite early 91, maybe. I don't know when it came out and then I think the pro circuit started maybe in 95, so I went to the very first pro tournament and the second and then every other Pro tournament that was not happening while I was in Alaska. Okay? Okay, and so Germany actually some of the ones that were expensive to get to I wouldn't go to

15:01 Open your head piano. I don't we didn't know we had quick cards in Spades and and other pinochle poker and then and then using that deck of cards. I was designing games. So what was that? You know, I know I want you to tell it he do that that one incident that one thing that is kind of the Crux of the story. If you will, they rest of the story if you will. That kind of changed your focus in life because that's that's what we all know what the company has severe the storm storm. So, so the honest truth is there were lots of Storms and there were lots of times when I went I do not want to be doing this with my life and during the during most of the season. I was trying to figure out

15:54 A realistic way to incorporate game design into my career, but the storm.

16:02 That were talking about the middle of the night raining.

16:09 Fishing was mediocre.

16:12 And all of a sudden all of our Electronics go out.

16:16 And so are the radio no navigation. No sound so quickly get the flashlight look in the engine room sure enough water has just covered are batteries. And so without electrical system all of our bilge pumps are dead. So we can't pump water out the only pump we have that works as a hydraulic pump attached to our engine and the water now is getting close to going over the air filter in a suit as any water would go over the air filter and 2nd and R engine would die and we'd be dead in the water without a way to contact anyone. So we had to figure out where the hell the water was coming in turns out the prop access. So we have a plate above our prop because we're a fishing boat and we're running over Nets on purpose sometimes and by accident sometimes so if a web and gets caught up in our prop it will

17:16 Stop your engine and you'll have to reach down in there and cut the wedding out so that you can get that mobile again. So that spins and what it happened. We had a new crew member that didn't last one of the tie-up ropes on the front of the boat very well and so in the storm cuz it was storming waving. It had flopped off had gotten or propeller and then poco poco poco poco, the Rope had spun the proper access hatch and so we had to well know probably only putting a half diameter hole in the bottom of 32ft boat. So so water was pouring into the first thing you had to do was well, I guess the first thing we got the hydraulic pump running and we just put it down in we had taken off all the floorboards in the in the engine room, and we were pumping out the water and then we're trying to figure out where the water was coming in from it and took a while.

18:16 Just to figure it out because that was the first time at so this is happened then.

18:21 Many times afterwards, but that was the first time it took a long time to figure out like prop access. And so then once we had the the plate back on and we will stand our engine hadn't died. Then we're pumping out water to water was slowly starting to go down. It got very close. In fact, the bottom part of our air filters were wet. So it was it was right about sucking a second to the engine and so at that time since I had no navigations and no windshield wipers. I had to go out to the Flying Bridge and had to navigate the boat from the Flying Bridge. And so that's why I named the company North Star games because while I was there trying to navigate by the Stars 222 safety, I decided I'm going to pack up the scary operation and I'm going to follow my heart and start that Morgan company that I was wanted to start. That is awesome how to get back to you.

19:21 Obviously

19:31 It wasn't great. So you got home and and that's what we know what the company is kind of like the Genesis we talked about that like the Genesis of the company was like right there. They have the aha moment. And so, how did you how did you go about pursuing that then? I mean you sounded like you were set on it. I mean after all you've been doing games all your life making games you can do the business plan. What do you want to call it a business plan or not? You're done. And so so what so what happened at that point, you know, you know, whether you have to go a few years down the line or whatever. Just what with the next step then they have to loosen up a board game. He was so as I said, we had no career since no one in my family has any career sense? So the next step for me I decided to go to get an MBA school for two reasons what I wanted to learn a little bit about starting a company and Entrepreneurship and business.

20:31 And to I wanted to find a business partner. And so so the next step for me was taking GMAT doing research about Business Schools. I went I got an entrepreneurship scholarship based on a real business plan. Now, I started learning how to actually do real business plan though. It started interviewing a lot of people who own companies and retail stores and kind of putting together like a real business plan and got a scholarship based upon that at at at the University of Maryland MBA program there and then from day one said hey, I'm starting Morgan company. Yeah. I put up the only person there who knew what I was doing what I was going to do when I lied and everyone else was like, you know doing a career change thinking about stuff and Satish was one of those people who actually we spoke about this board game that out company that I was going to start within the first week at the bar and he's like, yeah,

21:30 I'll join you as I can. Okay, and probably had you know for real but just kind of like an institution for the listeners if you spell al-amari your the co-president of North Star game, so he was coming from Finance for business school before business school. So we were both liberal arts. He was also econ. Okay? Okay you guys and that's kind of I mean, I started the company in business school like a literally Incorporated at 10 working on games and I'm not like that already had a website already had the name of the company that URL. Yeah. I think I got the URL about three years before I start the before like I actually started but I've been working on the then specifically games for my for North Star Games right 3 or 4 years.

22:30 Yeah, and you were thinking more of the games of your kind of the part two more of the party game style right over it with the or what type of games were you thinking of at the time because it sounds like you know again that you were everything from Magic to hardcore you in a role-playing games to that effect. But you know, what what kind of molded your your your your game design thoughts, you know at that point.

22:56 Hobby Games and lifestyle type games so I always wanted to do that. But I also love to party games cuz they played a huge role in my life growing up all types of games and the social interactions that they create their are just something that's near and dear to me and all different types of the research that I did into the Hobby World made me realize that there's very little chance of earning any money doing that. So so my original business plan was looking at this insurgents of games coming out of Germany from from an award called the Spiel Des jahres have a ward has completely changed the world wide board gaming industry. And the reason is the award was given to the designer and not the publisher and that allowed this end because it got big

23:56 That allow designers game designers to become Millionaires and when people are becoming millionaires other people become more interested in devoting their life to that industry. And so when you have someone who clocks in every day and they come in at 8, and they leave it whatever and they just getting a paycheck. They don't have that same sort of passion as someone who stands to ER nothing right and stands to become a millionaire and that kind of stress drives you to think about game ideas at night and in the shower and when you're driving and you become obsessive about like, how do you make this game better? And how do you make that experience better for people when they get together? And so they're there were an amazing number of improvements that were taking place. So without disparaging let's say Monopoly too much and it does some amazing things.

24:51 It has serious flaws. For instance when you start the game and you get some people to come over. You don't know if the game is going to take one hour or 6 hours, right or Never End play. Monopoly knows that that's for sure. Definitely my family kicked out of the game. And so those two compound each other and are are huge. For instance. I bring some friends over we play Monopoly. We don't know how long it's going to take and then someone gets knocked out early and they're sitting there going. Well, I came over to have fun with my friends and now I'm not playing with my friends and I don't know if it's going to be another 3 hours or 1 hour or six. Apart anymore for him, you know how to create a game where people of various skill levels can get together and it still be fun for people who played at 10 times or 50 times along with

25:51 Who's Noosa how to add luck into the game but still allow a lot of a depth of skill and how do you have hidden information so that you don't really know who's going to win at the very end of the Panthers just tons of ways to solve these issues like it like for instance another big problem is if you know who's going to win let's just take Monopoly again, you know, who's going to win your like do we play it out? A lot of times a person who is winning is like well, let's just play it out and see cuz they're having fun. It's like I don't want to be for sport. Okay, let's do it. But I don't like it. We already known this kind of fun for me anymore. There's a person sitting at the table with a bad experience. That's an issue. And so you want to try to find ways to make the experience good for everyone at the table and then Additionally you want to try to find ways to make a game that can be taught easily because the experience of learning a whole bunch of rules is never fun for anyone even the biggest nerd that you know,

26:51 Show me the Raven since I've been at Northstar fur for 8 years and working with you and Satish is like that is kind of The Credo that we work off of. I mean, it's just making something that is enjoyable for everyone. I mean, I've learned a lot about going as you described it and we call it internally ask a mechanic see, you know, the mechanics behind the game and understanding how the game is made and created that's where the thing so it sounds like that's just kind of I mean from the beginning you always had that in mind, you know when starting the company that was just the way you were going to that's the way we're going to go and not nothing be damned all those other games that are out there the classics but you know tides are turning you know that we need to make a change their to to the way that games are played right? I mean this kind of mood the way it sounds like I'm there was a point I suppose one game companies just realize that that at some point it's like we've got to make these These are fun, but we've got to make them enjoyable for all ages for everyone and you know, just at 4 in a fridge don't have a good time when they come over to play a game fit into today's schedule.

27:51 And so people had a lot more time. And so there a lot of people without jobs spending, you know, 235 hours in an afternoon to play a game with a grape form of entertainment also reflecting a world where that that's harsher where you can get knocked out early. So so so the art the Artistry and board games just like in movies and literature are reflecting kind of a community that that kind of reflects take me to the people are living in the house. Oh, so right now it's it's much more desirable to have a shorter game that you can learn the rules to quickly get engaged in and play for a short. Of time and then go on with your life right now. I want to go back for a second because I'm I'm just kind of curious. Do you know even just going back to the other again to your business school days, we have that big check in the office. That would remind me what that is quickly. I just fell over

28:51 Because it's in the office and I always wondered what that was. Okay. Cupid's cup competition was cup. That's right. So we went to a business plan competition Kevin plank the founder of Under Armour used to go to University of Maryland. And so he started working with the entrepreneurship Department there and started a business plan competition where you went through submission process and then you presented your ideas to a panel of A B Cs and and professional investors and then he would use to make the final decision and we won the very first keep that competition and I think it's the first one very first. I hope everything is well cool. $10,000. Okay, Heather to starting off Under Armour was still a small company of the time.

29:51 Really got things started for you guys for your Satish or was it a little after hours or either of us a little bit after we knew we were coming into Target and decided they wanted to carry with wages. And really at that point we had to earn we need about $400,000 in about three months. Yeah. And so this was kind of beginning Roadshow and in fact about a hundred thousand dollars of investment money came from two people in the audience there. Okay? Okay, cuz my credit card of you guys with a small group of people just manufacturer manufactures put games together in your basement. I mean, it was really a basement. I started it years ago in your basement. We're now in an office but we started in your basement in a sweatshop. So even though I went to business school had very little business sense. Even after I left we the first game that we manufactured II source.

30:51 At 12 different places and then all of the componentry got sent to my apartment and then my vibe is my roommate two roommates actually who are just who loved his likely were willing to deal with a maze of boxes that they would in and out of our living room. I think for about 3 months, like literally you had to go through a maze to get to the kitchen and we graduate in 2004. So it was right at the.com crash in the afternoon. And so people having a hard time finding jobs. So as they were doing their job search we would offer free pizza and beer and we would have ate NBA people come into either our apartment or something or another basement where someone has lettuce keep store some of our components and I called it our NBA Sweatshop. He would like to spend hours like just doing manual labor.

31:51 We will never do that again. So you know, what is 16 years later or something. Now that we've been around and we North Star games and just looking back. I mean, you know you pinch yourself that is like wowie, you know, we've you know how to develop the successful company in a where we've got a lot of good games out there and I think we can I'm very very happy to be a part of it. But you kind of look back just kind of think of you in awhile how it all began and stuff that we we we we tell the story even on our like our website and somebody put in their catalog because it's such a fascinating story because me, where is more company and its and I think people retailers the public they like to understand, you know, they are hard work and I'll get you and where dreams get you so and I may be a testament to that but I can give him look back in like wow.

32:51 Denver and it's and it's tough. But you know what? We see here at Toy Fair. It's it's like there's a lot in the game mean that gave me where the board gaming World in particular has changed so much and it's amazing what's out there and I've always said it's like it's not even that were competing with these companies. It's more of just we're all putting out good stuff and we all enjoy it. It's not competing for shelf space when he's just more of just, you know, we want to retailers to love us and Tube July car games that are and their customers to have fun in the end of a guy playing when people get together and have wonderful time lot of people use Wits & Wagers say anything and happy salmon have been used many times for proposals and at weddings and then they will get pictures. And so that's that's that's what drives me every day to come into work. When you see your your hard work being used in such a way, you know, it's not just for parties at in the end in dorms are in living rooms anymore. And it's being handled these games across the industry just being used in so many different ways.

33:51 Attract so many new people to all think. I'm getting people off the electronics, you know, that's that's the big thing also. That's the way I look at it. I want my kids off the electronics and just have a nice family night, you know game night. So that wouldn't it be great if we can make that again too because even though it's been eight years that I've known you and working with you, you know, it's just I'm always amazed on how how it comes about and I love understanding on how companies form, you know, it's just that something I look at whether a big one from apples to small ones. You like us. It's always fascinating to see people get the ideas and what what drives them, you know who it was a storm pass exactly what thank you will thank you for the interview and thank you to the Toy Association for setting this up and for storycorps for a putting this all together. Really appreciate it.

34:50 About 5 minutes left. I was going to ask if I could yeah, that's definitely

35:02 Mission-driven I wanted to board games and did they understand that is in a big part of your life up to that point. Where will they stay there sugar in? Let's see my Dad decided he was he was done with the fishing operations. So so I think it was all right. I mean I was a I put my heart into the captain's why did you know? I did a really good job for him, but I think you know, he just knew that if I was leaving then then he was going to sell so I think it was was doing missionary work still something also that they were promoting every word that you were interested in or that they wanted you to do also that is kind of like

36:00 Canary atheist. Okay that proselytizes that's psychology can help solve a lot of the world's problems. Okay. So yeah, so he he's he's I would say now he's more of just kind of like I think he called himself a few minutes, but definitely when he broke away from the faith to begin with he was still a preacher and so he was a minister for a while his his brother was a minister his sister the minister and his other sister is a work setting it is the choirmaster that focuses on communication skills between couples with them.

36:45 So your parents were just trying to think you remember the moment that you told your parents like am going to go to business school and late that all out for them. I do not so I was about ready by the time I went to business school. So this was so cuz it took me 10 years to go through college cuz I was paying my own way. So I don't think they were you know, I think they were fine with it, you know, so they're mission-driven. My middle name is King named after Martin Luther King cuz my dad march with Martin Luther King and we have a letter from Coretta Scott King and his wife Thanking us for naming him naming me after after dr. King. So so it's more like mission-driven. Like how do we change the world and make an impact? And so I probably saw that in you with your game with the love of games and kind of changing the world that way I think they're okay with my mission of bringing people together for memorable and

37:45 Inspirational game moments. Yes. I think the whole idea of like earning money is more like oh well, our son does a lot of complicated stuff that I don't understand.

38:01 Traffic. Thank you. Thanks.