Elizabeth Swallow and Jerod Swallow

00:00 Hi, my name is Elizabeth swallow. I competed under the name Elizabeth. Punsalan.

00:07 I'm 48 years old.

00:10 I'm a figure skater in the sport of ice dance.

00:15 I competed in the 1994 and 1998 Olympics.

00:21 Mi five-time National Champion a world and Olympic competitor

00:28 Today's date is Saturday, November 2nd 2019 Where in Colorado Springs Colorado? My interview partner is Jerod swallow who is my spouse as well as my former figure skating partner.

00:48 My name is Jerod swallow.

00:51 And I am 53 years old.

00:55 I was a figure skater as well. And in the ice dance event. I competed at the 1994 and 1998 Winter Olympics.

01:10 And again, that was ice dancing.

01:14 Today's date is Saturday, November 2nd 2019.

01:19 This is in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

01:24 My interview partner's name is Elizabeth swallow.

01:29 And she is

01:32 My spouse

01:38 Okay. Do you want to start with the first question you want me to and ask her the question I can start with the first question.

01:47 What three words most accurately describe your sport?

01:54 If I were to think about ice dancing it really is.

01:59 Specific even in the sport of figure skating. I think it has its own identifiers and that it is

02:11 Play Relentless, I think as far as the physical and mental aspect of it. I do think it's one of the

02:21 Disciplines that you can do for a longer, so I think the career maybe longer but it is

02:31 This is Relentless as far as how determined you need to be to find success. I do think it's an elegant sport some something. That's very unique in the World of Sports. I don't think there is anything that's similar to it that that I know of where we're Blends a little bit more of artistry is along with the athletic part of it.

03:04 So I think those are my three words Relentless elegant and unique.

03:16 Okay, I'll ask you a question about the same one what three words most accurately describe your support.

03:27 If I'm talking about figure skating in general and that would include the three disciplines at the Olympics singles Pairs and ice dancing.

03:38 I would describe them as entertaining.

03:43 I would describe them as

03:46 Graceful

03:49 And

03:52 Spontaneous

03:54 Spontaneous in the sense that anything can happen in competition in usually does so there's an element of spontaneity to there's the the performance that the skater gives but that can either be rewarded or Not by the judge is Mark. So there's spontaneity in the performance, but then there's also some sort of the unknown but the judging panel as well. So I think there are a lot of things that have to go well and

04:28 For you to have success in the sport or sport has music with it music is part of the competition.

04:40 And I think that I'm brings an element of entertainment into sport, which is unusual and I think that's a very attractive or very m

04:50 Attractive

04:52 Element to this play. I think that I think the skaters are definitely in tune with what popular music is. They also have done a lot of research on what historic, you know, historic pieces of music have worked well in the past. So I do think the music plays a huge part of it and I know the the skaters are usually on Trend or ahead of the trend when they are choreographing their program so that when the time comes to compete fully there right on time with the movies release or the Broadway show or whatever it may be

05:35 What three sounds do you associate with your sport? That's an interesting question. That is an interesting songs and their bad sounds one of the good sounds and our sport is like grinding of an edge so that the sound that your Edge makes on the ice when it's a very strong Edge and it's gripping the ice is it is it is a good sound. So even if the judges hear that sound, I think it's it represents quality and steadiness of the fee command of the equipment of the ice. So that's one that stands out to me. We were always trying to

06:22 Listen for that sound and repeat it.

06:26 There are sounds that are

06:29 Not so good to hear that certainly is up an impact a sound made by an impact on the ice not from landing on your blade but falling and

06:40 And it's audible you can hear it even with the music playing and binding and the substrate of the ice surface that can even Echo. There's some Arenas that we've been in around the world where that the ice has put in place over a swimming pool for instance. And so when you fall on that ice it sort of makes a bigger impact than other Falls within earth would make yeah.

07:08 And of course, there's the the music and at the end of a program.

07:15 There is the ovation.

07:18 Yeah, that's what everyone cup keeps coming back. So I guess that's what else Gators will keep coming back for is the audience's appreciation. The other one that I think of offhand is the toe pic with in figure skating. I mean topics obviously we use them for jumps but sometimes you hit them accidentally and if a skater hit the topic accidentally it's usually followed by a fall. So that's definitely an indication that there's going to be a mistake or a problem that there are physics involved in physics have sounds to them certainly are sport.

08:02 Pets physics and there's there's actual sounds relating to as you describe the jumps whether it's a toe pic or an edge in in to prepare for rotation. There's a certain noise. That's that you hear when skaters are preparing to jump or spin.

08:25 In The Landings, of course when they're good Landings at there's a there's a very specific sound that you hear right? Because there's a running Edge out of it. So, you know, you get the landing noise, but then you get a running Edge which is kind of a and there's some you feel some wind when the skaters travel past you like speed skating intra-trac obviously and other speed Sportsman and you can almost hear it if it must have sound with it. I remember later in our career when we had sort of gotten most of the skills.

08:59 Under our belts a one of the things that we really focused and where's the noise the amount of noise that we are making because of the quality of skater beat, you know in the top 10 in the world are the ones that make the least amount of noise and Ice dance especially its

09:17 The quietness of the blade it's the it's it's being able to generate speed from nowhere seemingly from nowhere and then and not scraping noise not this is unforgiving when it comes to

09:35 No, I said Hi, and then your relationship with the ice is becomes apparent with the amount of noise that you make or don't make and the skaters that can really caress the ice and use it to their advantage and

09:49 Think into the ice really become one with the Ice Heather. I really the beautiful skaters.

10:00 Can you describe where where you are from? And how did you get into your sport? And how old are you?

10:10 So I was born in Syracuse New York grew up on the westside of Cleveland in a small town called Sheffield Lake Ohio. I began skating because my older brother and sister had started in the learn to skate program and I think it I think it was convenient for me to also take lessons. So I started in group lessons when I was about 7 years old. It was at the recreational Arena about 20 minutes from my home and

10:46 We just left it. I think we started once a week and and then added twice a week and then added after school. And once once we get serious we were skating before and after school and it just became.

11:07 A lifelong

11:10 Pursuit of a follow-up question for you. So what was it like to compete in in your early days of?

11:18 Ice skating compared to eventually the Olympic early days of competition. I think I was terrified just because the arena was so big and there were so many people and

11:35 I don't know if it if we weren't as well prepared, but certainly not as much experience with competition. So you really didn't know what to expect and what was normal and what was not normal. So I remember competing when I was young in that thing. You want to hear my music or not being able to remember stuff sand. Do you know certain things that either would have prepared for or wish someone had told me early on but as you can pee and I think it takes a long time at least it took a long time for me to learn how to compete.

12:16 You learn what's normal and what's natural and what's expected and then you also learn to prepare for the unexpected. So there's less and less that surprises you as you can through the years.

12:33 Yeah, it becomes a lifestyle.

12:38 I asked you a question.

12:41 What was your routine to calm your nerves before competing?

12:48 Do you still utilize it today?

12:51 I guess that's the follow-up question.

12:55 My routine to calm my nerves before competition certainly was unique. I think every athlete has a unique routine that they develop to help them cope with competition. I was fortunate enough to have a partner in competition. So the dynamic was it was 18 or just two of us, but you develop that routine together, but you would go off into your individual space and get dressed and get ready.

13:29 And it was a routine and it was I think having a familiar routine that helped me kind of stay focused and and stay calm, but then you also develop something with your partner.

13:43 Oh just certain words or a routine that was familiar and comfortable and it helped the two of you get ready to go and compete and it was

13:57 Pretty identical per event for every event that you went to it was always tested when you were put in situations that were diverse where you had to rely on your routine or circumstances change pretty dramatically and you you had to react to those and you could out you could always fall back on and your team that you had prepared for that. You were used too often times. The competition venues vary dramatically between North America and Europe, so

14:33 In Europe, although you could still apply routine. You're out there always some challenges to to deal with I think some of those some of the biggest challenges were traveling to Russia or competing in an environment that were very very competitive with the United States and it would say post Soviet Red Army School sports school. So we

15:01 We didn't compete in Russia when we were younger athletes, but as we were older and the Soviet Union dissolved, we found ourselves competing in.

15:12 In Russia more often and that was drastically different than what we were used to but still an amazing experience. And again you drew on what year routine was to help you get through those diverse situation. He still utilize a routine today. I do have I do like a schedule and a routine and I need that in order to be a function.

15:42 Well, if I don't have a routine, Aldo.

15:45 I'll say I love being on vacation when you don't have anything going on, but I feel if I'm going to be efficient and if I'm going to have a productive day, I certainly need a routine and I need

15:59 To be conscious of a situation is great, but being conscious of a situation where you need to be calm and where you need to be in control so that you can have the best outcome. That's the result tell you. Those are those are attributes you develop as a as an athlete and I think I'll high level athletes take those with them into their lives beyond Sport and hopefully they're still utilizing their good things in your your lies in them.

16:33 So describe where you're from how you got into your sport and how old you were.

16:39 I grew up in Northville, Michigan a suburb of Detroit and

16:46 Was introduced to ice skating outside on little ponds and lakes in the neighborhood.

16:53 And everybody

16:55 I skated in the winter or tried it and we

16:59 Had a new indoor Ice Arena built in the town next to us and we all wanted to go over and try it out. So few families went over and tried out the indoor ice and it was I remember it was so smooth. And so

17:18 Shiny compared to the snow. We were skating on the pond that it made an impact. It had a certain smell cold clean smell, of course. It was a brand new building and that's were skating lessons were taught so

17:35 The other thing is growing up in in Michigan for a young young boy hockey was a sport for the winter that everybody was attracted to so we I wanted to play and I had to learn how to skate better. So it went to sign up for ice skating lessons.

17:54 At the neighboring town in the new Ice Arena and course you you learn skating technique, which is essentially figure skating technique, but all the foundation's carry over to the other Ice Sports at least the skating Sports and the more I stayed with lessons and more. I got interested in figure skating and kept signing up for more lessons and so on and so forth. And before we knew it we had a private coach for figure skating. We were signing up for local competitions and by that time you

18:30 You've developed a group of friends and a social Social Circles and you talked to them all the disciplines of figure skating. So I'd I tried singles and I tried pairs skating and I tried ice dancing all that an early age and did all three disciplines at the same time and I had one partner for pears and one partner for ice dancing. So I kind of had this friendship group already anywhere head up.

19:02 Real then you're pretty real male skaters were few and far between so you you were definitely recruited and in high demand in high demand. So we made a move from the small local rink to the big Training Center in Detroit at the Detroit Skating Club Wichita already had a very illustrious history with the Olympians when I was 13 and the coaching was a very high level of Detroit Skating Club. So the skaters that went there definitely began to Excel and

19:43 And there was certainly a history of a pie level competition there and producing Olympians and eventually course my wife.

19:54 Elizabeth and I made the Olympic team while also training at the Detroit Skating Club up with the journeys very long.

20:02 It's not a short Journey you end up deciding and specializing in the discipline that you are most suited for and for me it was ice dancing and a lot of it is timing and a lot of it is locked, but for Elizabeth and I we had other partners prior to pairing up and so are a lot of our

20:24 Early experience and Foundations were built with other partners in similar with similar technique for our sport. I was 19 18 or 23, which is pretty late.

20:49 But we stuck it out for a lot of years. So I guess we made up for it. That way. I remember first going to the Detroit Skating Club and and the level of skaters were so high that you had to make sure when you got on a session that you knew how to get out of the way because the skaters were fast and they were serious and they would run you over in so that was one of my first impressions is that it wasn't it wasn't for the Casual skater. You sort of needed to know how to skate in order to maneuver around the practice by Stephen.

21:41 That's a great question. That is a good question wouldn't have a professional level of skating after I mean, especially during the time that we skated the sport was changing so much when we were first competing there was an amateur segment to the sport and a professional segment and you're either one or the other but in the middle of our careers, they changed that so that amateur and professional could each participate in the other and we could essentially make a living competing as amateurs in our sport. So it really changed our trajectory I think but starting out in skating I had no idea I had no idea what I was in for in skating. I think it was, you know, by basically signed up for enjoyment and for exercise die soon.

22:41 Gained a lot of friends in the sport really still not knowing where it was leading. I know that I was doing singles mostly focused on Singles with and a weekend Dance Experience, but I was excelling and dance at a higher rate. And so I sort of knew that's if I wanted more success that that's that's where it was going to be at. Like I also grew very very fast in the short amount of time and lost all of my jumps so that pretty much made the decision that I would be a dancer and shortly after that. I think I moved up to Michigan where it was a little bit more serious of a

23:27 A dance training environment. So that's when I really started to think of this could this leads to Nationals and Nationals leads to Worlds and worlds could lead to the Olympics. That was my first experience that this could lead somewhere. But as far as professional skating that seems so far in the distance. I wasn't sure that was that was the career of professional skaters who skated and shows mainly so they were performed professional performers in the ice capades and other shows that you might go and see where you were coach. That's not What You're Made Of Us for it though. It wasn't something that we necessarily aspired to do my parents were definitely pushing for me to get an education and I think at that I was focused on that so during my high school years I was thinking about where I would go to college and what I would study

24:27 How I would get there but skating kind of kept becoming a priority. Yeah, I think that it was a time. There was a time in our career where we were trying to go to college and compete at the same time. But with the amount of competitions we were doing we couldn't really finish the semester without significant absences. So we were skating more than we were going to school and that turned into professional opportunities. It really was I think it really was gradual up until 1994 when u.s. Figure skating changed.

25:11 The amateur professional Rule and we were able to make a living to support our own skating. So I really think that elongated our careers. Well actually speaking and it was at the international skating Union that that opened up the sport or allowed the legends to come back Brian Boitano and Kurt Browning and Viktor Petrenko and Katarina vet torvill and Dean and they commercials they capture the commercial.

25:45 Popularity of those that generation in and mixed it with the up-and-coming generation and it really created quite a dynamic opportunity for new competitions and new shows and it became a professional circuit that went throughout the year wasn't season. Also we all benefited from Atmore opportunity. I think that was the peak of the popularity of our sport at least

26:17 At least that I know of I know earlier they had a lot of a lot of figure skating names that became household names and I think in the nineties you had that a lot where they were certain familiar people that you could root for or turn in tune in to see 1990 to 1994 and 1998. Right? So there was also the years and we were competing during the years when the Olympics did the US Olympic Committee decided to change the cycle of a quadrennial. So we had the opportunity to compete at the 1992 Olympic trials, which we just missed the team and then compete again at the 1994 trials and Olympics and I think having the winter.

27:17 Olympics two years and two years apart really put a focus on our sport as well that we may not have had otherwise award.

27:32 But then but then we went on to

27:36 Perform professionally for 10 years so after competitive

27:44 Cease after a competitive career while I guess they overlap each other. So we started touring in 1994.

27:55 On this offseason circuit, which

28:01 We did for 10 years or situation was certainly.

28:10 Different being from the United States and being US Champions compared to Skaters that came from maybe some of the smaller European countries. Although they could have been world or Olympic medalists. The United States had an incredible circuit for professional skating professional tours that

28:37 Went to all the states and if you were ranked or

28:43 Good enough to be invited on the tours. Then you you had a good three or four month. Will you could perform and make money and to pay for your passport later in the year and we were very fortunate to be able to participate as as Elizabeth suffered for 10 years in that in that tour but we were touring with all of our friends and competitors from the world's world's in Olympics lot of us the US Champions were always on the tour and the world and Olympic medalists were always on the Torso. We had quite an elite group 2

29:24 Be part of a performance within an ensemble of talent that land from in to learn from it was an up-close-and-personal view of of these athletes what they did to

29:42 Become as good as they were, you know, it was our offseason, but everyone was all still working so hard to stay in shape. What is it? What is it like to meet athletes in your sport from different countries? And do you share bonds with people you've competed against?

30:09 We is funny because some of the closest friends that we have we met.

30:17 From figure skating at a very early age. So now we've been friends for

30:24 3 decades

30:27 For decades made me going on for decades for some of them but

30:32 And like you said, they were people from all over the world. So in the same ones that we kept meeting up with that competitions at shows and events as coaches at or as commentators or as direct competitors or competitors. You were battling it out with on the ice year after year after year even hired coaches that you've known since we were teenagers that we've competed against for years, then you know, they're their work ethic and their expertise and now they become

31:16 Professionals and coaches professionals but also Alliance email alliances for the next phase of life. I guess age as a competitor and we compete started competing internationally in the junior ranks. So you are between 12 and 18 years old and those friendships. I can laugh about some of them because you couldn't even speak that you didn't speak the same language, but somehow you communicated and

31:52 You laughed at the same things that we all had a similar senses of humor, even though we were from different cultures and you mention that when we started in Germany and Russia, you didn't hear much from because they were behind the curtain the night that all opened up in our later years where we got to visit those countries and they came to the US and a lot of times I learned English. So there was a lot of change and transition from the time when we first met them until now how far we fall come and the experiences that we've had and I think as athletes you

32:40 Really get to know somebody because you see them in their best at their best and maybe at their worst and everything in-between C. Really, I think it to know a person's character. It's through Athletics that you wouldn't wouldn't otherwise right come across a pond and then touring with them is a lot like living with someone for months at a time and and towards the end of the 90s. We were touring for six months of the year and really living day and night with the same people in traveling with them, you know, when schlepping the luggage in the skates and late nights in the early morning routine that we are we're conscious of even if it was that competition, I think having been competing in the mid.

33:36 Mid 80s when the Soviet Union was still

33:41 Round We competed in Eastern Europe in that was all Communist governments. So that was to go there and compete in any look back at it. It was very unique experience and

33:58 Something that not a lot of people got to

34:02 To experience but then within the sarl are Sam's sport lifetime to see.

34:08 All of that I disappear in the freedoms and other countries that emerged from the Soviet Union that became independent sport countries, and now they have full Olympic teams. That was really incredible to watch.

34:28 Okay.

34:33 When did you realize you stood out from the rest of the competition?

34:40 That's that's

34:43 A good question, I think when you

34:48 As a competitor

34:50 Emerge and you're

34:55 Advancing through the competition's to get to the National level.

35:03 And your kind of near the top of the national rankings because our sport is is not necessarily connected to school like a high school sport or college sport and it's it's a it's a it's been around a long time you realize that year, you know being part of the national championships in United States is a big deal so you can kind of realize okay. So this is going in the right direction, I think when you're chosen

35:34 For to represent the United States, even at the junior level for the world championship team. Are you qualified for that? And your selected? Do you still have to be selected? You realize? Okay. I am good enough to be on the team. At least I'm going to be on the team and then hopefully you're representing the country and good enough to win a medal. I think it's when you when you're selected in the same would be what with the Olympics when you there's a selection process obviously, but when you're ranked high enough in the country to be vying for a spot on the team.

36:10 And you get that spot and you're selected and you get the jacket more specifically for you, and I when we first aired up, I think we were with Sandy and she had asked us to do a stroking exercise around the rink. That was really the first time that we had.

36:40 We didn't really try out together. We just decided that we would skate with each other and then we hoped it would be a good match. And so the first time we stroked around the rink, we hit the boards we hit the boards and we went flying. Do you remember if we were going so fast we were flying and I think that's when I knew this is it wasn't like any other partnership I had ever experienced and I thought this is this is this is different. This is this could be good.

37:18 WeChat individual Dynamic and movie brought that together it was

37:23 More advanced than what we had had previously with other partners, but also the compatibility of the work ethic that we share the the common interests and romance and marriage and a family so it all worked out great for us.

37:46 26 years only 6 years married

37:51 What's happened like at a time? I mean 26 years or so been connected to our sport for all of us 26. We have watched our sport evolved. We we we did we felt obligated to teach our children.

38:12 Our sport so we went that far but this or Poor Boys know how to ice skate, but they don't skate formally.

38:21 Do and we've also participated in our Sport and a lot of different ways now and then a lot of different times so we were competing in their Sport and then we were performing on the road and then we were at different times I think both coaching and right now you're do directing sport a little bit more broadly and serving the national governing body serving on various volunteer committees for u.s. Figure skating and giving back and now a little bit more with usoc I think.

39:00 Starting out that relationship and experience to sport in general not as specific ice dancing and figure skating but reaching a little bit wider.

39:16 One minute

39:20 Well, thanks for taking the time to talk to me today and share your memories.

39:30 There's too much. We don't know about each other, but it's wonderful to hear the reflection on and skating career not only together but how you started in the great journey?