Emily LeGree and Dennis Yutchishen

00:01 Hi, my name is Dennis Yutchishen I am 76 years old. Today's date is September 23, 2022 and I am recording my One Small Step conversation at the University of Virginia.

00:19 Hi, my name is Emily Legree. I'm 20 years old. Today's date is September 23rd, 2022, and I'm recording my One Small Step conversation at UVA.

00:31 Great.

00:31 So, Dennis and Emily, how did you each find out about One Small Step and why did you decide to have this conversation today? I found out through a class I'm taking at uva. It's called Political Dialogue. And the teacher wanted us to sign up for this. This is what I'm doing.

00:51 I can't remember how I found out. Maybe would I have come across it? Well, going through my phone, yeah. I'm not sure how I found out about it, but it sounded interesting to me. It went along with some of my concerns.

01:12 It goes along with my concerns as well because I want to be able to talk to people without fighting basically across different parties, which is. This is all about that. Thank you guys. And then the next thing I'm going to ask you to do is you have your partner's buyer that they wrote in front of you. And a big part of One Small Step is putting yourself into another person's shoes. Even if it's just for a moment or for a conversation. So I'm going to ask each of you to read your partner's bio out loud. And then after you each do that, take about five minutes to ask any follow up questions you have for them about their bio.

01:50 Alrighty.

01:51 Read these out loud you said. Okay.

01:53 You went first last time. I'll go this time.

01:55 Awesome.

01:57 This is Emily's bio. My name is Emily Legree. I am a second year transfer student at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. And I am from Norfolk, Virginia. My sister and I were raised solely by my mom as my dad was an extremely unreliable parent. My parents divorced when I was seven and both remarried to other people within three years. From these two marriages I gained one stepsister and two half brothers.

02:30 Okay, my turn. This is Dennis bio. My wife and I have just retired. Closed our business due to Covid. We are physical therapists. We have one grown daughter. I grew up in a suburb of Baltimore. I tend towards being socially liberal and economically conservative. I became fairly hawkish after terrorist attacks in 2001. I'm greatly concerned about the great socio political division of our country. Our present political parties seem unable to help us identify as a unified nation Our enemies are waiting in the wings to pounce. Do you have any questions yet? I have questions.

03:15 So when you were raised by your mom did that, being in a single parent family, was it financially difficult for your family?

03:29 Luckily, no. My mom has an amazing job and she was able to take care of us with that. And my dad was still financially liable for us as well. So we were okay financial wise. Yeah. She put us through great schools and we had all the opportunities that she offered to us.

03:47 They divorced when you were 7 years old. How did that make you feel? Did you lose a lot of confidence because of that?

03:58 I don't think I lost self confidence. I think I lost. This is weirdly deep about like confidence in relationships because it was a very messy divorce as well. And I still have a lot of issues with it today. So I have a lot of issues with how that happened and confidence in relationships, but not with myself. No. Yeah.

04:17 I think that's all I have to ask for right now.

04:20 Okay. I was wondering. This is more political wise, but I want you to expand on what you meant when you said you became fairly hawkish after the terrorist attacks in 2001. Like, what does hawkish mean?

04:40 I wanted to find the terrorists and take them out. I wanted revenge. I wanted.

04:53 You wanted personal revenge. Did it feel like a personal attack on you when it happened?

04:58 No, for our country.

04:59 Okay.

05:00 For our country.

05:02 So how would you have, like you wanted revenge? Were you supporting like then the military who were going?

05:09 Yeah, I supported all of the military things that happened afterwards. Okay, I guess Iraq.

05:24 All the military operations that happened afterwards, even until up until recently in that region, would you say?

05:30 Well, you know, I have mixed emotions about what happened. It's. I certainly don't feel like we left too quickly. The Middle east, we stirred things up because we had to, because we had to protect ourselves from future attacks. But I certainly don't feel like we supported the nations well enough. We should not have withdrawn.

06:05 We shouldn't have left in a hurry. Like we did.

06:07 Yes, like we did. And the Taliban does not seem to be to me a good system for having a society. And I feel so poorly for the people who were working with us over there during the war and for the women and the children who were there now under the Taliban rule.

06:39 In relation to the Taliban, I actually have very close connections to, not the Taliban themselves, obviously, but the people who are extracting people from Afghanistan because my dad is in the military, he's an admiral. And his main goal when that was happening was he was in charge of all the airplanes getting them out then. My stepmom runs a nonprofit in Afghanistan for women, so people from her group, she has been for the past year working on getting them visas to other countries and having them resettled.

07:08 Yes.

07:09 But I think my question that goes along with kind of just. I'm very aware of the military operations in Afghanistan. Would you want them to start again? Basically, because I know we left there, but would you want to restart that?

07:23 Gosh, I don't know now. I don't know what to do now. I mean, there would have to be a. Taliban has taken over. It would have to be another whole war.

07:37 Yeah. It most likely would start a whole nother war.

07:40 Yeah. It would just be horrible, as though it's already horrible.

07:44 Yeah. That kind of makes me think about how do you feel about the US Having such strong military presences, like, all over the world? Like, we're one of the few countries that have bases in so many other countries.

07:59 Well, I still think of the United States as the light upon the hill. I know a lot of people question whether we're the light upon the hill, but I. I do think that despite all of the maybe excesses of capitalism, I do think that we function as a light upon the hill for the world. I think we stand for democracy more than undemocratic countries, although I know that we have had relationships with monarchs and undemocratic nations. But I feel like that was. We just had to do that in order to balance things out.

08:48 Okay. I had a question, but I lost it.

08:51 My daughter was in the Air Force in Iraq, so I don't know. She might have been under your father's command. Was she in. Was he in the Air Force?

09:04 No, he's in the Navy. In the Navy, guy? Yeah.

09:07 My daughter. My daughter's in the Navy now, though.

09:09 Oh, maybe. I don't know. I was going to ask with that then. How do you feel about the US Military budget? So it's quite high.

09:22 Yeah. I'm not a. I don't. It doesn't bother me that it's high. It seems to me I like what they're doing to support Ukraine, and that's billions of dollars. And I support the large military budget.

09:47 Okay.

09:48 How about you?

09:49 I don't. I just. I truly do think a lot of it is unnecessary because also, like I said, growing up around a big military base, I've unfortunately heard a lot of people in very high power say very. I'd say this isn't like, shitty things about what they're doing a Lot of them are very desensitized to the violence they cause, including my dad, I would say. Like, they just. They describe bombs.

10:20 Just your. Your biologic dad, biological dad.

10:23 So he's still a part of my life, but it's not a stable part or. But I know about these kind of things. And they're also desensitized that when I hear them talk about stuff like that, about who they're bombing in the nations, whatever, it makes me very worried how much money they're getting, because it's like, how much good are we actually doing?

10:43 Yeah.

10:43 Because I know there are a lot of civilian casualties as well in the fight against terror. Whatever they're saying.

10:50 I understand what you're saying and the way you feel.

10:54 Yeah. And just some of the. My whole thing is I just think we should reallocate it to actual social programs in the US Too, that need more attention, I think.

11:05 So. Move some money from the military to social programs.

11:08 Reallocate it. Yeah. Because I don't think the military is our biggest worry right now. I would say. Yeah.

11:15 You know, I think my support of the military may go back to some thoughts I have about life. And sometimes when I think, what is life about? When it boils down to the basics, I keep thinking life is about survival.

11:39 It's a very primal view.

11:41 Yeah. Survival could be a very important part of life. And yet when I think about. I've been thinking about life in the universe. What is the purpose of life in the universe? Why are we here? It seems to me that life is also the only way the universe has any expression of love. The stars and the planets just seem to be hard rock and minerals. And I'm not sure I perceive any sense of love from that. But once life started and developed, even between animals other than humans, I mean, I see dogs appear to love one another. A lot of animals appear to have affection for one another, which I perceive as love. And I think humans maybe are the. We continue to put love into the universe and in one way at a deeper level than other animals, because we can think about it. We have the concept of love and can think about it. So although I believe that life at its basic, Maybe survival, I also think love is an important part of.

13:14 So you almost wish to see more love. Would you say? Like, that's your goal?

13:18 What did you say?

13:18 Like you would wish to see more love?

13:20 More love.

13:21 More love in life, or. Or do you think you see enough?

13:25 Do I get enough love?

13:27 Not you in general, but just like in society, do you think there's enough love shown, basically.

13:33 No.

13:34 You don't think so?

13:35 No.

13:35 So you would wish higher levels of love for people?

13:38 Yes.

13:38 So how would you do that to go back to politics? How do you think kind of how.

13:44 To create more love in the immersion? You know, we're not going through these questions for much. Is this, should we go with the flow?

13:56 Keep going where you're going. I will bring you back on track. If I'm looking at time. I really want him to talk about this. I'll look up and interject. But you guys are great where you're going.

14:06 Okay.

14:06 Feel free to go wherever you feel moved.

14:11 I don't know how to make it better. I just know that we would be better as a society if there was more understanding. And understanding I think has to do that. Some help. Somehow it's influenced by love.

14:33 I agree. Because that even can go for in my family. There's very polarized views.

14:38 Your family is very poor.

14:40 What polarized views?

14:42 Polarized.

14:42 Just across different family members.

14:44 Yes.

14:45 But it kind of has to do with love too, because it's like I love this person with my whole heart. But they do have very different views. But I don't want to completely shut them off from my life just because of that. So it is difficult to talk to them sometimes. But then you have to remember, like, they're family and you love them, they raised you.

15:05 Yeah. It is difficult. And I feel like in our nation, we're a big family and there are just, as my bio said, the extremists on the left and the extremists on the right seem like they have stolen the two parties, the left party and the right party, and have too much influence and there's not enough effort to try to find some common ground.

15:40 Well, nothing's getting done either.

15:42 That's right.

15:43 Because it's so opposite.

15:44 Yes.

15:45 I mean, only recently, like a few things have passed, I believe, but it took a lot of time.

15:50 Right.

15:52 I don't know. I think also when it comes to that, I think social media plays a huge role. I don't know if you're part of that at all. But even with like President Donald Trump's like his whole media thing, it just. Cause everyone's also always in the spotlight. And then I think in order to get attention, politicians have to say really extreme things sometimes.

16:15 Yes, you're right.

16:16 Yeah. To get a following or to get people to listen to them.

16:19 Yes. And just like the newspapers and the news stations, the more extreme that they can report about, the more newspapers they'll sell and the more viewers they'll get. So you're right, in a way, capitalism may be feeding our divisions because capitalism wants these newspapers to sell and more viewers to watch the news and all of that because they want to make.

16:55 Money, which is really an issue because then you do come into the whole, like, what is real? What are real facts that are being presented to you?

17:02 Yes, yes.

17:03 And people a lot of politicians can make. I mean even. I mean, I voted for Joe Biden last election, but even you always what? I voted for Joe Biden last election. Even his promises in his campaign, I don't think like a single one has actually been fully fulfilled. Yeah, he's done like part time. Like there was the student loan forgiveness, 10,000 offer, student federal loans and small things like that. But it just seems like promises by politicians are never fulfilled either right now quite frequently, which is very frustrating. That's the reason you vote for them.

17:37 Yes.

17:37 Because you think they'll help, but they don't.

17:39 Yes, I agree.

17:44 We can do one of the questions now if you want.

17:46 What did you say?

17:47 We can do one of the questions if you want to.

17:49 Let's see here. Why did you want to do this interview? We asked about the others bio. All right. You want to talk about the most influential person in your life?

18:01 Yeah, that one's really easy. It's my mom. That one's. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that. I don't know. She was just amazing in every way. She is kind of the one who pushed me to be so open minded, I would say, and open to so many new things. And her kind of like catch phrase is there's like always a reason. What is it? Everything happens for a reason, which I believe heavily. And I mean, she raises me and my sister on my own. She's just like an amazing woman.

18:35 And she's strong, must have strong.

18:36 She's extremely strong. But at the same time, she also let us see how she was emotionally vulnerable, which I really appreciate. She never tried to. When we were younger. She did try to fake it, obviously, when she was having hard days, fall.

18:50 Apart and crying in a hump on the floor.

18:53 She can't do that when we're like, you know, three years old.

18:56 Yeah. She went to her room to do that.

18:58 Yeah, I think she did because I never saw it. But when, as we've gotten older, we've talked about everything that happened with my dad and she's been so open and I think that even makes her stronger, that she's able to talk about it, and she, like, gives us advice based on that and know everything, so she's amazing. But. So who's the most influential person in your life?

19:23 You know, I hadn't thought about this.

19:27 Is it your bride?

19:31 No. I mean, she's very important, but I lived quite a while before I met her. I think. I think both of my parents. My dad, he was more along the lines of that expression that I said earlier, life is survival. Of course, he grew up in the depression in the coal fields of western Pennsylvania, and his parents had come here from Ukraine, so they were thought of as foreigners, and he was thought of as a foreigner. They were the name for them, the derogatory name for his group of people, Ukraine's or maybe Slavic people. They were called hunkies. And so he was always talked down upon it when he was in school. You're just a hunky because he was the child of an immigrant. So. And it was also the Depression, So they lived very poorly. And I think. I know that life can return to that by having heard both of them talk about the Depression and being the children of immigrants. I know that life can become very basic very quickly, and that this that we're living in right now is nice, but I'm not sure how real it is, you know, at its basics.

21:25 So that's kind of what made you, your parents and your dad, specifically, with the Life is survival.

21:30 Yes, that's where that came from. Yes. I think it was survival for them.

21:33 I think it sounded like it. Yeah.

21:34 Yeah. Survival for them. And I learned that lesson.

21:38 Yeah. Does it feel like survival for you now, though?

21:45 Well, we grow a garden of vegetables, and one of the reasons we do that is because I tend to be a survivalist. Are you familiar with that term? And we keep an emergency supply of food in case there was some catastrophe. And I thought about what our water supply would be and how we would survive if society breaks down. So, yes, survival is still an important part of my concept of living.

22:28 What do you think if there were to be catastrophe, what do you think it would be right now in the.

22:34 World that could affect nuclear war? Well, it could be two things. Nuclear war or our country has a civil war because of this stupid divide that we're living through. I think both of those are a possibility.

22:52 I'm pretty sure even recently, Putin was talking about using nuclear missiles again, too.

23:01 Isn'T it? Isn't it? And along the lines of survival, I've sent away for the potassium chloride or some sort of pill. That you take to keep your glands from absorbing too much radiation.

23:19 If that were to happen.

23:20 If that were to happen, yes. But it would be more important for people of your age to have those pills just in case. It would only cost you 20 bucks or so to get these things. Because at my age, supposedly, as I understand it, if there were a lot of nuclear fallout, it takes about 15 years to develop the cancer. So, you know, I'm much closer to the end of my life than you all are. You need to be having a supply of that just in case it happens, because it's such a small investment of time and money to get it. Be there for you just in case.

24:03 Yeah, maybe I'll have to consider that.

24:06 Pardon?

24:06 I said maybe I'll have to consider that.

24:08 Think about it, you know, who knows? You know, this crazy man, Putin, you know, he could just pull the switch just like that, because he doesn't have another way out to look good.

24:21 Yeah. I don't know how that war is going to end. I'm thinking of it now, and I don't know.

24:26 Yeah, I hope, you know, the Ukraine seem to be doing better. I send money to them every month.

24:34 Very nice.

24:35 To try to help.

24:36 Is there a certain organization there you send money to?

24:39 I send it to the military.

24:42 Can you send it directly to the military?

24:44 Yeah.

24:44 I did not know that.

24:45 You can go online. It's the national bank of Ukraine. And you can donate for humanitarian needs or to the military. And right now, while they're in the midst of trying to win this, I know that the humanitarian needs are high, but they need to win this war. So I send to the military.

25:10 Interesting. I'm actually one of my classes on Tuesday. I'm having a zoom call with a man who was in the middle of all, or he still is, humanitarian aid in Ukraine. And he's going to be talking about all the data that goes on in there and just his whole experience. Yes, I just think that's super interesting. Yeah. I did have a question that went with nuclear stuff. Oh, I was going to ask you, how do you feel then about basically banning the use of nuclear and energy.

25:39 In that nuclear bombs or nuclear.

25:42 Not just energy, because energy could be applied.

25:44 Oh, that would be great. Yeah. I would be in favor of banning nuclear bombs if we could get everybody on.

25:51 Obviously, I don't think we could do that, get anyone to agree on that.

25:54 But yes, that would be great, wouldn't it?

25:56 Yeah, I love that. What about nuclear energy?

26:00 I think we may still need nuclear energy before we develop solar Energy enough to supply us or what is it fission instead of nuclear.

26:14 Isn't it nuclear fission? That's what it is.

26:17 Yeah. It's a different process that doesn't create.

26:20 I don't know for sure.

26:20 A byproduct, by the way, since I'm Ukraine. What's your family's nationality, backgrounds?

26:28 I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure majority French, mostly French. I don't know the breakdown, if I'm being honest, but I know, like, my last name's Legree. It's very French name. It used to be like La. Sp. Space. G, R, I S, like very French. But then when they came to the U.S. they changed it.

26:47 Right. And my name was changed as well. I think my name was pronounced and Hutchison sounds more like Hutchison. Hutchison is sort of an English name.

26:59 Yeah, it is. I think that's my background. I don't know fully.

27:03 Yeah, Legree would be more French. Look, sounding.

27:05 It's a very French name. I wanted to hop in with one of the questions from the sheet and ask if you could both talk a little bit and share with each other about your first memory of politics.

27:22 Mine, I don't know if the. Well, I was aware. I was going to say John Kennedy's assassination. I'm not sure that's politics, but he was the main politician. But I was aware of. Were you alive when Kennedy was.

27:47 No. When was that?

27:48 No, you weren't.

27:49 I was born 2002.

27:50 Oh, yeah. So. But I remember being aware of Eisenhower and that he had been a general in the World War II and that then he became president. So I was aware of that. And I am a child of World War II. When my dad came back from serving in the army In World War II, that was 45. It came to an end and I was born and 46. So they came home and got busy, you know. Much better making love than war, you know.

28:35 That's good.

28:36 See, I'm the product of love instead of war.

28:44 Did you ever. I'm just curious about this because I also had a grandparent that was in World War II, my great grandfather. I will answer your question, too, in a second. I'm sorry. Mind bringing your mic? I just realized it wasn't picking it up or it's been picking up this whole time. Feel right. Okay. I'm gonna say. Oh, my gosh. Just after that last question, it got kind of quiet. Is that better? Yeah. Okay. I was wondering if you'd ever kind of seen the mental effects possibly war had had on your dad? Because I have seen it with the.

29:12 Mental effects on my dad.

29:13 Yeah. If you ever noticed anything. Because I've seen it with my own grandfather and with my dad.

29:22 No, I don't think, I don't think he had ptsd. You know the war stories that he tells me about. Actually one of the. There are two stories. One is he was told to guard an intersection and because he was older, he was about 25 years old and some of the others were 18 years old. He said the 18 year olds weren't strong enough personally. They would stand in the middle of the intersection and guard and he would get down in the ditch so that he wasn't exposed and he would guard that intersection that way. So that was one of the source of. So that was a survival story during the war to survive the war. And the other one was that he was an anti aircraft gunner and one of the guns backfired and he almost lost a hand from that. So that's the only other story that I remember from that. Now he didn't talk about it and I don't think he was bitter. I think he just went on trying to survive. How about you?

30:40 Well, with my great grandfather, he passed away a few years ago.

30:43 He.

30:44 When he got into his older ages especially he would sometimes break down crying. He was a bombardier in planes and he would basically break down about the people he had killed. Yeah. People he believed he had killed or cities he had destroyed. And then my father, he basically. We've only talked about it a few times, but he has certain triggers he's mentioned. One of them is he can't stand to hear little girls crying. So he was also a surface warfare. He's a nuclear engineer and a surface warfare guy in the Navy. You can't hear little girls crying. And then he's also afraid, he's very claustrophobic because one of his trucks fell over in the water and he was stuck in the truck that was filling up, I believe. And I can also see how now he's obviously, I think if he started to talk about everything he's done and everything he's seen, he would have a breakdown he couldn't recover from, if that.

31:43 Makes sense because of involvement. Involvement with the military.

31:46 With the military. What he's seen, like he's obviously seen terrible stuff and probably even some of what he's done for being honest. So I just, I'm always curious to ask about that.

31:55 Yeah.

31:56 But I can also answer this question. My first memory of politics, I was. Oh, it was at My elementary school, it was the 2008 election between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. They were having. How old was I? I was six. They were having us do like a mock election, whereas like little. I think I was a first grader, they had us push a button for who we would choose. And I think I chose Mitt Romney because obviously I don't think I had any idea who these people were. But I think it was a school wide thing they were doing because they were like, let's let the little first graders do it too. But I remember that. And then at my school, it also was a huge deal that Obama won. Like everyone was celebrating. It was huge. So that's my first memory of it.

32:41 Yeah. So what is your feelings about having Obama when as being a black, a man of black persuasion.

32:56 I'm all for it. I'm for sure for it. Representation is important and he proved that.

33:05 Does it mean that we're. That the United States and you know, a lot of people feel that there's. That racism is a really big problem yet in our country. But what does it mean that a black man was voted president? I mean, it seems to modify that quite a bit from my way of thinking.

33:33 I would think when he around he got elected, people were saying that. But then if you look to the eight years after when Donald Trump was elected, I see it as almost the opposite because after all those years of having a black man as president, a man who was, in my opinion, openly racist, won the election. So it felt like almost people were so upset that Obama had gotten to be, you know, the president that they decided to flip it completely. So I don't think there was, I think in politics a lot. There was a lot more in his presidency and even now, a lot more inclusion of different races and cultures and whatever. But I think we got set back a little bit with the Trump presidency.

34:18 Yeah, I had a different impression of what Trump's presidency meant. I did not think it was a reaction to Obama having become president. I think it was. I personally think it was a lot of middle Americans, silent majority, who felt like they were being left behind. They used to be supported by a big industrial, a nation producing things. And the capitalists for some reason decided to get things made elsewhere, cheaper and they lost all their jobs. And then they also felt like they saw the government reaching out to help. What's the term for small group of people?

35:35 Minority.

35:35 The minority. They felt like the government was helping many minorities, Hispanics, African Americans, immigrants. And they kept saying, what about us? We, you know, we used to earn good money and we had a good life, and now we don't anymore. What about us? That was what I thought. And I don't think they chose Trump because they thought he was fantastic. I think they chose him because they had no other choice. It was either Hillary, who they felt was just a liberal, who would continue to favor all of the minority groups and ignore them. That's what I thought happened. But you're right. The magas, the. The extremists, extremist Trump supporters, probably were racist, are racist, and they've got the loudest voice, and that's why that created that impression.

36:57 Yeah. I think it also probably was a bias because Hillary was a. Hillary was a woman as well. For a lot of them. Yeah. But I did want to ask you with like you're talking to, by minority groups who are being focused upon. Do you think it is still more important to focus upon minority groups? Like, when it comes to jobs, I feel like they usually do have harder obstacles to opportunities in the U.S. would you think so?

37:23 I do think they have more obstacles, but I also feel like there's that middle America silent majority who are hurting psychologically. And how do we. How do we help everybody, you know?

37:47 Yeah, but how would you want to help the middle. I don't know.

37:54 Don't ask those hard questions. I don't know.

37:56 That's what we're here for. To bring it back to you guys and your experiences. Although this is all really.

38:02 I can't hear you.

38:03 Oh. To bring it back to you guys and your experiences. Although this is all really interesting to hear both of your perspectives. Have you. Have either of you ever felt misunderstood by people with beliefs that are different than your own? And if so, could you tell each other more about what that experience or those experiences looked like?

38:22 You want to go first?

38:24 I can go first this time. Um. I don't think I've ever felt super misunderstood. The one issue that has come up, particularly in my family, is I'm an atheist. And some of my family members who are more conservative are Christians and, like, very strict Christians, I would say. And when they talk to me sometimes it kind of seems like they think I don't really have the same standard of morals as they do. Even though I think it's because we have such different ways of looking at life, it feels like they. Because I don't believe in their God, they don't listen to what I'm saying as much because I'm not basing it in a religion. If that makes Sense. Yeah, yeah.

39:09 Now, that must be difficult.

39:11 It's difficult. And it also. I mean, it hurts when it's family.

39:16 And then it hurts your family or hurts you.

39:18 It hurts me because it's also very difficult when I didn't really know exactly their beliefs until I got older, obviously. And we'll have a normal conversation, and then I hear some like, I'm not gonna like my family. One side is homophobic, I would say. I would label them, and I hear them say something like that, and it just really catches me off guard. And, like, it makes me emotional, and that's hard to deal with.

39:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, being an atheist in a Christian family, it's almost like it sets you up for being a bad girl.

39:57 Yeah. Or it's not. Luckily, it's not my mom or anyone. I'm super close to my family. Extended family. Yeah. It's like, when I come there, like, they kind of assume I'm not doing something right.

40:10 But your mom is. Is okay with your atheist?

40:13 My mom isn't. She's. What is it? Agnostic. I didn't grow up myself in a religious household.

40:18 You did not. What?

40:19 I didn't grow up in a religious household.

40:21 Okay.

40:21 So to me, it's not even, like, a strong stance of atheism. It's just, I didn't grow up with it. It's not a part of my life. But for them, my extended family, it was like, it's their life.

40:32 Right.

40:32 So.

40:33 Right.

40:33 Yeah. It's very different. What about you? Have you ever felt Ms. Misunderstood?

40:43 Well, because my view of Trump's presidency is that middle Americans, middle American, silent majority felt left behind when my bride. My wife. My bride is very, very liberal. And I was not always against everything that Trump said he was trying to do. Say, for example, trying to control the immigrants coming across the southern border. That doesn't seem like a bad thing to know who's coming across and vet who's coming, especially when we had just had 2001 and bombed by radicals. It seems to me having a knowledge of who's coming into your country is important, and it's common around the world that you have to vet yourself when you go to live in a country.

42:11 But what about his statements that had to do with people crossing the border that were describing them as, like, thieves and as rapists and how he was characterizing that?

42:22 Well, yeah, that's.

42:23 Those were a little racist tones, but I understand where you're coming from. More like the actual. Just tracking people, almost just knowing who's coming in.

42:31 And I'm sure there were some thieves and rapists coming.

42:35 There's not an every single race that's not, you know.

42:38 Yeah, you're right. Every single race. You're right. It would be. Yeah, I agree. There are people just looking for a job and a better life for their families coming.

42:49 I think that's basically like, in my head, that's what immigrants are.

42:53 Yeah.

42:53 It's just. And I like. Have you seen the treatment of a lot of people at the border? Have you seen any of those images?

43:00 No.

43:01 They're rough. A lot of children are like, separated from their parents and put in not very humane conditions. And that was in the Trump presidency. So my whole thing is I'm like, pro, like letting people into this country. But obviously with. You need some regulations, but I just think there needs to be a much better standard for how we do it and how we treat people.

43:23 Yeah.

43:23 Because at the end of the day, we're all, I mean, they're just looking for better lives for their families.

43:27 Right.

43:27 And a lot of the times they're getting treated like they're animals.

43:30 Yeah, I, I wondered. There was, Were there, were there some immigrants who were put into jail while they were being vetted? They were controlled. I guess they didn't need to be put into jail. I guess if they were. Had been lawbreakers before, if they were identified as criminals in their passed in their previous country, they were put in the jail. And you wouldn't want to put the children into jail. I thought there were. Some of the children were not kept with their parents because the parents were being put in jail. I don't know if they were being put in jail following a good standard, appropriately. But you don't want to have the children in jail. I thought that was responsible for some of the division. But you're probably right. It could have been done a lot.

44:39 Better and it still can because it's still going on, I think. But I don't know fully what you're talking about with the jail. Like, who was.

44:48 I thought that there were family members, the adults were being put behind bars while they were being vetted, and they didn't want to put the children behind the bars. I thought that that was part of why the children were being separated from the adults.

45:06 I truly have no idea.

45:08 I don't either. That's an impression that I had that that might be part of it.

45:13 Okay. On that note of uncertainty, I don't know either. I wanted to ask. We have around 10, 5 to 10 minutes left in the Conversation. If there's anything you learned about your partner today that surprised you and if you could share with each other what that was.

45:35 Nothing that surprised me.

45:38 I think I am a little bit surprised by. I feel like you're more open minded than I expected, which is obviously a very, very good thing.

45:49 That's a nice compliment. Yeah.

45:50 You're very open minded, which I appreciate a lot.

45:53 Yeah. And that's why I question why, how she put us together. Because I think I'm pretty open minded. And when I was coming in here and I had read what you, I said, well, I'm not going to have anything. I'm not going to be bumping heads with this woman.

46:11 And we did it so far.

46:12 No, you're right.

46:13 Yeah.

46:14 No, I think just wait, just wait.

46:16 Till the last minute. I don't think so. I think I.

46:22 So you were surprised a little bit that I was more open minded that you thought. What made you think that I might not be open minded?

46:28 Okay, so there are two sentences in here that I like. I'm just like looked at. And they were the one I asked you about the fairly hawkish with terrorist attacks in 2001. And then your last sentence, our enemies are waiting in the wings to pounce.

46:43 Yes.

46:43 Because that language to me is just very. I couldn't tell.

46:47 Hawkish.

46:48 Hawkish. I was like, I don't know what hawkish means in this context. And then the enemies waiting to pounce too. I was a little bit. I still don't fully know what you mean by that.

46:59 Well, I think China has big plans for being the dominant player in the world. And I don't like the idea of that communist country being the dominant player in the world. I don't think the world will benefit from having a communist nation be the one setting the tone for things around the world.

47:27 But in what aspect would they be like the leader in the world? Like economics, Is there a certain sphere.

47:34 You see that overtaking economic. They're building deep water ports in some poor countries which can be used militarily as well as economically. And I feel like it could put a lot of pressure on them. And they're stealing, they're really open to stealing technological information from the United States. I think they want to be dominant. And I think Russia is a country that cannot be trusted. And they have nuclear bombs and China has nuclear bombs. So I think both. And Iran. I believe the fanatics, the Muslim faction of fanatics in the world, just like the right wing in the United States and the left wing can have fanatics The Muslims have their own set of fanatics. And I think Iran helps promote that radical form of Muslim. Muslim.

48:51 The Iranian government supports it.

48:53 Yes, the government.

48:54 Okay.

48:55 Yeah, I think. I think Iran.

48:57 Okay.

48:58 So I think Iran, Russia and China are enemies waiting in the wings.

49:05 But I feel like in my head, there doesn't need to be, like, this great competition between countries for who's the most dominant. So I don't under. Like, would it be the worst thing in the world if we weren't number one in something?

49:18 We don't need to be number one. I agree, but I don't want these certain countries.

49:24 You're saying you wouldn't want, like, these specific countries. You wouldn't want to possibly have more power than us, is what you're saying.

49:31 Yeah, I think Russia is corrupt, and I think China is a communist country and that it does not promote individualism. And I do think that capitalism does promote people to become their best. To be thinking of ways to improve, I think motivates them to invent much more so than China.

50:09 Okay, so would you say that or. I mean, I guess in my head a lot of people could say a lot of similar negative things about the United States, too.

50:18 Yes.

50:19 About how we shouldn't be a huge national power. I mean, look how many.

50:23 We shouldn't. What?

50:23 We shouldn't be a huge international power. When I feel like you look at us. I mean, like you said, we have so many issues going on here, like you talking about an impending civil war. So it's kind of in my head. It's like, do you even think at this point the US should be a leading power in the world? Do you think so?

50:41 Well, at least we have elections.

50:45 Yes, those are important.

50:47 We have elections and it gives the people a chance. And who. I can't remember who it was that said, you can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. And little by little, we may come make the right decisions as far as our election or if we make mistakes in elections, we can fix them. We can fix them. We can fix them. Like with Mr. Trump, we did fix that. Yeah, let's hope. I mean, I said earlier on that I did not disagree with everything that he tried to do, but he is a poor leader and words that I don't want to use.

51:36 That's good.

51:38 In this tape as we close, I.

51:43 Just wanted to ask if you guys had any takeaways you wanted to share or final thoughts. But yeah, just what are your takeaways from the conversation? And then we'll wrap up from there.

51:56 I enjoyed it. I feel like I've done a lot of talking, though.

52:00 I think we both talk decent amount. I'm also. I love listening to hear what other people say. In my class that I just had, that's where I learned about this. We had a whole discussion on listening and how you can ask better questions from being active. So I actually really enjoyed doing this. I had a very good time talking with you, actually.

52:20 Me too. Back at you, girl.

52:22 Thank you. I would do it again.

52:26 Thank you for letting us do it.

52:29 Thank you.