Emma Lohr and Ashley Turner

00:01 Hi, my name is Emma. I am 19 years old. I live in Towson, Maryland, like, a little north of Baltimore. Today's date is September 8, 2023, and my conversation partner's name is Ashley.

00:17 Hi, my name is Ashley Turner. I am 19 years old, and I live in Fairfax, Virginia. Today's date is September 8, 2023, and my conversation partners name Emma Awesome. All right, so thank you both for being here this morning. I'm going to do a little twist.

00:34 In the first question, since you're both.

00:36 Participating this program through your class. So you both know the kind of basics of why you're here, but I would love to know, you know, to set the. Set the stage. What prompted you to participate in public service pathways? And then what are you kind of.

00:50 Hoping to gain out of this conversation?

00:52 To do we want?

00:56 I mean, I can go first. It doesn't really matter. But I join public service pathways because I think it's, like, a lot different than a lot of other things at UVA. Like, it provides an avenue or, like, a space where public service is encouraged, which I think is a big thing at UVA. But this is, like, a specific space where I can, like, grow that side of me. And I have, like, a lot of resources that I might not have otherwise if I didn't participate in that, I'd kind of be left on my own to figure out how to engage in public service by myself. So I like that there's a lot of resources and encouragement, and I also am really passionate, especially about sustainability. And so I think that this program kind of will allow me to, like, figure out how I might incorporate public service related sustainability into my career and my life one day. So, yeah.

01:56 Yeah, I joined the public service pathways, honestly. Well, I didn't. At first, I didn't really know what I was getting into. I volunteered at this Madison house program, and a bunch of the people there were involved in public service, and they were all just talking about how, like, their plans for it and everything. So I was like, this actually sounds like a really cool thing. And I've always known that I wanted to incorporate public service into my career, and so I thought this would be a really good way to get a start on that, like, see how that I see what I can do here to set myself up for later and learning how to incorporate this into my life. So, yeah, I didn't really know at first what it was, but I've really been liking it so far.

02:43 So, yeah, I agree. So the first exercise we do with.

02:48 These conversations is have you well, before you even sit down, just talk to your partner is to write a little.

02:53 Bit about yourself, because we always like a little introspection.

02:56 And so you have a copy of what your partner wrote to introduce themselves. I'm going to have you each take a minute and read out loud your partner's bio.

03:03 And if they've written it in the first person, you're putting yourself in your Parker's shoes.

03:08 And then once you've done that, if there are any immediate questions that come to mind from what your friend that.

03:12 You want to ask you about, I.

03:13 Encourage you to do so. And then once you're ready to move.

03:17 On, there's a couple questions about part.

03:18 Two that we always like to have people find out about.

03:22 So I'm going to pass it over to you guys now and take it away. Are you going to keep track? Are you going to tell us when we should move on from part two to part three?

03:29 Yeah, I'll nudge you in there.

03:31 Okay.

03:32 It's mostly organic.

03:33 Okay.

03:34 All right, sounds good.

03:35 All right. I can read yours. Okay. Ashley said, I am a second year at UVa who grew up in Fairfax, Virginia. Both of my older siblings attended UVa as well, so I am a part of a UVA obsessed family. I love to read, spend time with my friends and family, and listen to true crime podcasts. I am interested in both the justice and diplomacy pathways as I have been passionate about both topics for the last several years. I want to attend law school after graduating and work in criminal law.

04:05 Okay. Emma said, I grew up just north of Baltimore City in the same house shared with my parents and my younger brother. I lived in a privileged, tight knit community, relatively urban in environment, with high quality schools. I graduated from a law and public policy high school magnet program. I love making art, reading, telling stories, making people laugh, taking walks, photography and singing, listening to music. I'm studying architecture in hopes to contribute to sustainable urban landscapes. I guess I'm interested in the fact that you graduated from a law and public policy high school. Is that like, did you take a bunch of classes in that while you were there?

04:49 Well, obviously, yeah.

04:51 What does that mean? I've never heard of that before.

04:53 Yeah. Specific technical school. Yeah. So I kind of, like, I feel like I went in a little bit of a weird direction with my bio. Cause I was thinking about, like, how my identity really relates to, like, political context. And so that's why I was, like, talking about how, like, I'm pretty sure I have a pretty privileged background. And one of those things is my magnet program in high school. So the high school that I was zoned for also had a magnet program called law and public policy, which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like you learn about lawful policy. And so I applied for that, and I did that because it's like, both a small knit group of people in my kind of larger high school. And also I was like, well, it doesn't hurt to, like, become a better citizen and, like, learn about my political surroundings. And also I had, like, a vague interest in law, and I think I still do. So, yeah, it was just like, the framework was that every year you took an extra class that was specifically for LPP is what it's called. And so, like, I took a class on constitutional law. I took a class on, like, the basics of law and government, public policy class, and a trial advocacy class. And then you also take, like, the highest level of, like, social science class. So it was just, like, encouraging us to learn more about politics and the framework of government. So I, like, have a pretty good background in that. I decided that I wanted to do architecture slash urban planning because I'm more interested in, like, design as it relates to, like, civic engagement, I guess. But I still, I use some of that knowledge today, and I still, like, would consider law school because I found, like, the idea of, like, trial advocacy really interesting.

06:32 I think that's such a cool opportunity because that's exactly what I want. Like, law and public policy is exactly what I'm interested in studying here.

06:41 Yeah.

06:41 So that's really, really cool.

06:43 Yeah. It sounds like it would have been good, like, program for you if you were interested in that.

06:48 Yeah.

06:52 I'm wondering how you realized that you wanted to work in criminal law.

06:59 I think it's always been something like a niche interest of mine growing up, like, one of those things that I literally just always wanted to read about.

07:12 The true crime podcasting.

07:16 Read about and, like, talk about and learn about. And so I kind of thought that I wanted to do law just because I've always been drawn to that type of career because, I don't know, I just, like, I don't. I've always, like, growing up outside of DC, everyone, a lot of my friends, parents were involved in that. And I always just thought it was such a obviously, like, important job, but I was more interested in the fact that I feel, like laws and, like, people having access to lawyers and stuff.

08:01 Mm hmm.

08:01 Is just such a. I don't know, this isn't, I don't know how to explain, like, it's such a hard thing. It's, like, such an expensive thing.

08:10 Yeah.

08:10 And I've always wanted to, like, be helping people who.

08:12 Yeah.

08:13 Like, didn't necessarily have the means to.

08:20 Like, to have representation. Yeah, representation.

08:22 And so I've just always, like, gravitated towards, like, in some way having my career be, like, have that aspect to it and combined with, like, being, like, interested in, like, criminology and stuff. I just feel like I've also just always been really interested in, like, the rights of convicts and, like, people incarcerated. So that's definitely, like, my passion. Like, so that's why I kind of just, like. Yeah. Feel like that's what I'm gonna do. I mean, who knows? I just feel I just have kind of, like, as I've gotten older, I'm just trying to think of, like, what it is I actually want to spend my life doing and not just, like, growing up. It's like, oh, I want to make a lot of money, obviously. Like, you can do that as a lawyer, but, yeah, I mean, like, I just, like, I feel like it's combining things that, like, I'm actually passionate about, and I actually love learning about.

09:28 And you can be successful. It doesn't hurt. Doesn't hurt to be successful.

09:31 Yeah.

09:32 Yeah.

09:33 So, yeah. What made you. I mean, we talked about this a little before, but what made you want to do urban planning?

09:41 Well, my dad is an architect. He actually went here, too, so the Uva obsessed family. I also come from, like, a Uva obsessed family, but my dad is an architect, and I. So I've kind of always been aware of, like, what that job is like. And I love buildings. Like, I feel like it's a pretty niche interest to walk around and be like, oh, look at those bricks. Like no one else. People don't. In the architecture school, everyone thinks that way, but, like, most people don't think that way. And so I kind of. I like art. I like math. Architecture is, like, a combination of logic and creativity, so I really liked that aspect of it. But then I think law and public policy kind of showed me that architecture and, like, design and urban planning can have a connection to the policy side, and that's, like, mostly urban planning, like, figuring out how you can make spaces sustainable, which is really what I want to do through design. So, yeah, I came here wanting to do urban planning because the UVA has an urban and environmental planning program, and so it's, like, really focused on sustainability and, like, urban landscapes and shaping those for the future. And so I was really interested in that, and also I wanted to come here anyway, so it was like, oh, convenient that this perfect program is here. And then I got here and I realized that urban planning is, like, pretty distinct from actual designing of buildings and spaces. And so I'm doing architecture, but thinking about how I want to apply that major and that learning and, like, formal analysis and design to, like, urban planning and sustainability. So, yeah, that's really cool.

11:19 I feel like that's a really, like, niche thing to be interested in, and so I'm, like, impressed.

11:25 Yeah, we say that it's. Architecture is a calling, not a career. Everyone in architecture school is like, you kind of have to. It's like, really, it's not easy, it's not hard. Like, sign, like, stem. Careers are hard, but it's just so time consuming that you, like, really have to love it to want to stick it out, which I think is probably the same with. Same with law school. If you really love criminology, you can get through it. We'll see.

11:52 Yeah, okay.

11:55 Yeah, we can move on.

11:56 Part two, if you're right. Okay. Who has been the most influential person in your life, and what did they teach you?

12:03 Hmm. I think that the most influential person in my life would be my mom. Um.

12:11 Ugh.

12:12 What has she taught me? She's taught me a lot of things. She teaches me how to talk to people. Like, I've always, like, when I have conflicts with my friends, I would always go to her and, like, how do I respond to this?

12:23 I so relate to that.

12:24 Yeah, go on. Yeah, so she, like, kind of teaches me how to stand up for myself, but also, like, how to apologize if I cry at any point today, just. Excuse me, I'm a very busy crier.

12:35 Me too.

12:36 So don't even, like, I talk about anything somewhat sentimental. And it's just like, woo, I'm gone, so I probably will cry. I was like, I'm not gonna cry, but here we are, so, yeah, so my mom has taught me how to communicate with people, and I don't know, she's just, like, one of my best friends. We do a lot together, so that's amazing. What about you? Who's the most influential person in your life and what have they taught you?

13:05 Exact same thing. It's like, 100% my mom, she's just always been a role model for me in terms of who she is as a person. She's probably just the best person I know, but also professionally, she's just always taught me to go for what I want and make sure that, like, I'm passionate about what I'm doing, and, like, all she's ever wanted for me is to be happy. Yeah. And I think that's probably. She just has taught me how important it is to care about what you're doing.

13:52 Yeah.

13:53 Care about who you're around. And she's also. She's also, like, the same. She's. She works in HR, so she's really. She's always taught me how to, like, communicate with people and how to resolve conflict and stuff. And I feel like that's a really, like, people don't. Like, I feel like people don't talk about that when they talk about, like, what their parents have taught Emma so it's interesting that you said that, too. Yeah. Because I've always felt like maybe because her job was like that, it was just kind of, like, different than other people, but, yeah, I really agree. She's. Yeah, I miss her a lot. I'm seeing her tomorrow, though, so I'm.

14:32 Seeing my mom today, actually.

14:33 Okay.

14:35 The ballgame. Yeah. Yeah. My mom's a kindergarten teacher, so different kind of conflict management.

14:41 Yeah.

14:42 Yeah. She taught me how to. How to interact with kids, too, so when I. I'm a lot like her. Like, when I public speak, I'm, like, exactly like her. Like, people are like, Marianne. Like, no, it's me, but honestly, me too.

14:57 Like, I'll be literally just talking about something, and my whole family is like, you are acting exactly like mom right now.

15:03 Yeah, my family does that, too. And people outside my family are like, you're already your mom. Yeah.

15:10 Yeah. Can I ask a quick follow up question?

15:12 Are you both.

15:13 I know you both siblings. Are you both the only daughters in your family are doing that? I have an older sister, too. Okay. Gotcha. What is that? Like, what are your.

15:23 If you don't mind me asking. Yeah. You want to go ahead?

15:29 Sure. Um, yeah. I have an older sister and an older brother. My sister is three years older than me, and my brother's five years older than me, so definitely, like, just older brother vibe. Like, a good amount older. My sister and I are really close. She's. We're really different. Like, super different.

15:50 I'm like.

15:50 Like I said, I'm a lot like my mom. She's, like, really opposite me in terms of, like. Well, our personalities are similar, but opposite of me in terms of, like, what.

16:00 She wants to do.

16:00 She wants to be, like, a vet. She's, like, very science girl, and I'm not at all, but we're really close. She actually graduated from Uva last year, so last year I got to spend, like, a lot of time with her, which is really nice.

16:15 That's really nice.

16:16 Yeah. So it's weird being away from her again, but, yeah. And my. I'm also close with my brother. He just moved out, so that was weird. Moved in with his girlfriend, which feels really weird.

16:32 He's, like, a real adult, real job.

16:35 And I'm just kind of still in school while everyone is doing things, but, yeah, I don't know. That's my silly dynamic.

16:44 Yeah. I have one younger brother. He is four years younger than me, so he's a sophomore in high school right now. And I would say that, like, we were far enough apart in age that we weren't really very close. We were, like, close when we were really little, I think, because I was like, oh, this baby, that's mine. I. Then there was, like, the period where, like, he just really annoyed me, and I really annoyed him. And so we, like, didn't do that much together, and I think we've gotten past that. Well, we still annoy each other, but we're both old enough now that I think we're, like, becoming good friends again. Like, he sends me a lot of Instagram reels. That's, like, most of our communication. Yeah, he likes to talk. He sends me Instagram reels and memes. He, like, saves memes to his camera roll and then sends Emma to me in, like, sets, but, yeah, so we get along pretty well. I wouldn't say, like, we're as close as we might be if, like, he was my sister. But I'm also. I'm also glad that I have a brother, not a sister. I don't know why. It's just, I, like, I'm glad that he's my brother. So I wouldn't say we're, like, the closest, but, like, we're at the point now where we can do, excuse me, do things together and have it, like, not be awkward or, like, oh, I'm carrying my, like, taking my little brother around with me places. Like, it's, oh, my brother's coming.

18:08 So, yeah, I honestly feel like it changes a lot. As I got older, being, like, in the younger sibling position, like, for a while, it was like, yeah, we, like, spend time together, but it's not like we're, like, choosing to spend time together. But once I feel like I kind of became, like, a. Like, an adult kind of. Or, like, reached a more mature place, it's when started feeling like I was getting a lot closer with my siblings, so I don't know, I feel like that can always change. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Should we move on to the next question?

18:40 Sure.

18:41 Can you recall your earliest memory of politics?

18:47 I think. I mean, I, like, have some vague awareness that there have been, like, political disagreements within my family from, like, time when I was pretty young. Like, I think each of my parents has a sibling or both of their siblings who are, like, my family. My immediate family is, like, pretty liberal, and I have, like, several aunts and uncles who are, like, very much not liberal in different ways, like, conservative Christianity or just, like, plain conservative, like, both of those. And I think my grandma used to be kind of conservative, and she's not so much anymore. And I don't really remember exactly that time, but I had some vague memory of it existing when she wasn't so liberal as she is now. And so I remember disagreements and conversations between my immediate family and my extended family. But I'd say my earliest concrete memory of politics was in 7th grade when Trump won the 2016 election. Because I remember was that in 7th grade. 26th fall of 2016 would have been 7th grade, I think, for. Yeah, I remember when he won, and then I remember watching his inauguration. Oh, no, no, it was 6th grade. Sorry. No, it wasn't. Yes, it was 7th grade because he would have been inaugurated in January of 2017. Right.

20:16 Yes.

20:17 Eight years ago now.

20:20 Inauguration was six and a half days.

20:24 Okay. Okay. So, yeah, it was. It was definitely. It had to be 7th grade. Yeah, yeah. I remember watching his inauguration in my science teacher's classroom over lunch, and she was, like, sitting at her desk crying. And I think the rest of us were, like, a little bit too young to, like, fully understand the weight of what was happening. And she was, like, sobbing at her desk while he gave his speech. But that's, like, my earliest concrete memory.

20:47 That is such a powerful thing. I honestly. I agree with the part you said about feeling disagreements, not necessarily within my family. I think just always growing up, like, my grandparents, my mom's parents, we spend a lot of time with Emma really close with Emma and they talk about politics all the time. And I honestly think probably some of my earliest memories, I don't know exactly when this would be, but I think hearing Emma talk about things and me not necessarily me feeling like, oh, I don't really agree with that. Just, I mean, obviously, like, my grandparents are older, they're from a different time, so, like, there's a lot of differences.

21:40 Yeah, definitely.

21:41 Definitely not, like, conservative in, like, a right wing way, but, like, conservative is in, like, a traditional way. So I just remember, like, when I was younger, like, hearing conversations and I just, like, I don't know, kind of, like, trying to think of, like, my own thoughts on things. I was more interested in politics and, like, the government in general than I'd say, like, a lot of kids at that age, I don't really know. Like I was saying earlier, I've just, like, kind of always been, like, drawn to that side of things. So that's probably. But also, though, when Trump was elected, that was. I don't remember, like, the day or anything. I just remember, like, that time period very, like, what it felt like. I just feel like everyone, like people in school were just being really, at that age, it's like people think of things as, like, a joke.

22:51 Yeah.

22:53 And I just remember thinking about, like, the differences between, like, what people were saying at school and, like, what my family obviously, like, or my, my family is very much, like, very against Trump. Like, we're saying. We're like, a very liberal family. Disagreements between some of us.

23:12 Yeah.

23:14 But I just remember, like, the impact of people around me. Like, it was always really, I would always get really, like, annoyed at people who would, like, make jokes about insensitive things. I honestly feel like that was when I started to realize, like, the amount of differences in how much people care about politics and in general. So, yeah, I guess, I don't know. That didn't really answer the question of.

23:54 An earliest memory, but it did. I said, sometimes earliest memory is a little bit blurry.

23:58 Yeah. Like, don't have a great memory. I feel like I'm just very much, like, I remember, like, feelings.

24:03 Yeah.

24:04 Not really specific time.

24:06 And that's just how you remember things, what I was about, so.

24:09 Yeah. And as you move along, these questions.

24:13 Like, these are, these are pretty broad questions.

24:14 So there might be, like, a very one liner answer.

24:18 It might be more like what you described as.

24:19 Totally.

24:20 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Are we ready to move on to part three?

24:26 Yeah, you're all good. I think we're kind of around the halfway mark, so.

24:30 Okay, I can ask you first this time. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political beliefs? I know they're getting harder. Now.

24:45 I'll add this as a, because I always kind of, I've been adding this as, like, an addendum is, you.

24:51 Know, we say political because that is.

24:53 Kind of the source of difference that.

24:54 We'Re mostly tackling in this program. But at the same time, if they're.

24:57 Under belief systems or faith systems, I don't want to.

25:00 Please feel free to touch upon those as well.

25:02 So believe system is broadly, I would say. I, like, my mom has always told me she thinks her and I are the same, as in, we feel a lot. We feel for other people a lot. Like, we're both, like we were saying earlier, cry a lot. I think my, what has honestly shaped my political beliefs has been the fact that I feel very deeply for other people's troubles and injustices. So in terms of my belief system, I think I'm just really passionate about, like, equality. People being treated right, people being, like, able to live their life in the way that they want and, like, obviously freedoms and everything.

26:10 Mm hmm.

26:12 So. But I've also definitely been, like, grew up in a liberal family, so I grew up as that, too. And I'm like, I don't know what to get into. I'm really, really passionate about reproductive rights because that was honestly a source of disagreement in my family. I'm just really. Women can do what they want with their bodies. Like, so, yeah. And that's definitely different than, like, my, my grandparents and stuff. Yeah, that was one of those things that, like, I'd hear Emma talking about. And I'm like, I really do not agree with that. Mm hmm. So, yeah, I, like, don't know what to get into. Like, I definitely, like, like, like, on the left side of the spectrum. Yeah. I don't know if you want to go. Maybe I'll think of.

27:18 Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's fine. And we'll probably, like, think of more things. Also getting into the other questions, because there's quite a few of Emma Yeah, I would say I also come from, like, I'd say my family's, like, pretty liberal, but also were Christian Lutheran, to be specific, which is not like we're on a, on a christian spectrum. We're, like, more liberal than Catholics or, like, a lot of evangelical denominations, but also, like, my church doesn't allow women to be pastors, and my church does not approve. Like, my church technically does not approve of gay marriage. Like, my pastor, he's, he's great, but, like, my church does not endorse it. And so, like, I would say that my parents are a little bit more traditional in that they have a little trouble, like, coming to terms with certain.

28:15 Things.

28:18 But in, like, ideology, they're pretty liberal. And so that's kind of what I grew up with. I'd say I'm definitely, like, liberal, maybe, like, leaning towards leftist. Although I'm going to be honest, I don't always understand what it means to be leftist. So I don't like, really attach that word to myself because I don't know that I fully know the weight of what it means.

28:38 I relate to that.

28:40 Yeah, I should probably figure that out at some point. I should probably like, look that up and figure it out. But yeah, I am of the opinion belief that the government should take care of people, I think, more than it does, and that people should take care of each other more than they do. And I think that, like, relates a lot and take care of people and take care of, like, the earth and the environment. I believe in stewardship and I think that relates to a lot of my passions for sustainability and, like, environmental justice. And I, I just, I want people to get along with each other, but I also, I think that that could be misconstrued as, like, I think people should be allowed to believe whatever they want to believe, and that is true. But also I think some beliefs are harmful to other people's. Other people, like, living their lives, like, obviously homophobic beliefs create policy that then harms people's ability to just live and exist in the world. And I don't think that, like, expressing those beliefs, like, harmful beliefs, is beneficial. Like, obviously people can believe whatever they want to believe, but I think that there are some beliefs that are more productive towards, like, helping people be themselves and also, like, making communities and societies and the earth a better place. So I'd say, like, my big thing, like how you were talking about reproductive rights, like, I agree with your beliefs on reproductive rights. My bigger, like, my big passion, oops, sorry, we're gonna get feedback on that probably. But my big passion is sustainability, definitely. And I think, like, people who don't believe in climate change, like our policies that kind of ignore climate change, really frustrate me and anger me because I would also like myself and everyone else in our generation to be able to, like, live normal lives and like, have kids and do all the things that past generations have been doing. And so it angers me that, like, people in power now aren't necessarily providing for that future. And it's just kind of like I have a little trouble understanding how, like, science and research and science and research can just like, blatantly not be believed and then also how people, like, can't come to understandings by talking to each other. Because I feel like on an individual levels, like, having conversations tends to work, I think, in my experience. So I just don't that's relevant. I just, it frustrates me that on a more like, bureaucratic or like, governmental scale, they can't just kind of figure these things out and, like, make productive decisions for, like, everyone in the country or, like, everyone in the world. That was kind of a long winded answer. I'm not really sure what I said.

31:58 But I think you put the. The part about, like, people expressing their beliefs and stuff, you put that in a really good way. I like, really good. Some things are less productive than others, in my opinion.

32:16 Mm hmm.

32:17 So, yeah. I also like. That reminded me one of the other things I really cared about is, like, gun laws and gun control.

32:27 Oh, yeah.

32:29 I also just realized, I wouldn't say this is, like, necessarily, like, a political memory. I don't really see it as political, but, I mean, I guess a lot of people would. But I just remember growing up and, like, my parents watching the news and me and us listening about, like, shootings.

32:53 Yeah.

32:54 Or not like. Yeah. Events like that. And just, like, crying and being like, I have no idea why the world is like this and why we're letting this happen in terms of not just, like, the gun part of it, but also the people part of it. I just have.

33:16 I really.

33:18 And passionate about. I don't know how to put this. Like, there being, like, resources for people. Like, there being ways for people to. There being ways to prevent things like that from happening before, like, having. Doing a better job with helping people who experience. Yeah. Mental health or, like, growing up without a home and abusive households, things like that. Education, especially. I'm like, really? My dad's teacher, and he's a teacher in a place where there's a lot. There's a big divide between the student population. A lot of. There's a ton of rich white kids who go to Trump country club.

34:14 Yeah.

34:14 In my area. And then there's, like, the other portion that's, like, a lot of single parent, lower income families. Yeah. And it's a lot of. I just have always seen that divide there and the difference in how these people grow up, so. Yeah, I also. That's a big thing for me, like, us doing more, like, as a society to stop things from happening and not being, like, a victims are in my prayers type of society.

34:55 Yeah.

34:56 Very much like, proactive, not reactive.

34:59 Mm hmm. But. Sorry, I forgot you.

35:04 It's okay. No, that's the exact same kind of phrase. Really?

35:10 Wow.

35:11 Wait, that's so interesting. It's a good.

35:13 It's a good phrase. Yeah.

35:14 Proactive reactive concept is strong in new.

35:17 Students, and I love it.

35:18 Yeah.

35:18 And unfortunately, we were a very reactive society.

35:22 Yeah. Well, yeah, that's. Yeah. Do you want to move on to the next one?

35:29 Sure. Yeah. Was there a moment or experience in your life that helped shape your beliefs?

35:35 Yeah, I guess I kind of covered some of.

35:38 Yeah.

35:38 So feel free to jump. Well, if it's okay, I might actually jump in and ask. Sorry, I have something different.

35:46 Oh, you're good.

35:47 Something that.

35:51 I'm curious.

35:51 You know, we talk a lot about.

35:54 Misunderstandings in these conversations, whether that's like, when you personally feel misunderstood or things.

35:59 That may be like, broader societal things.

36:01 But speaking for a moment to the.

36:02 Personal, you know, whether it's navigating when you were younger or whether it's been.

36:07 Here at UVA, are there any times that you feel that you personally or things that you believe in or misunderstood.

36:13 That people who have to put beliefs or backgrounds in you, and maybe how.

36:18 Do you navigate that? I can go first. I think for the most part I feel understood by people here because I think a lot of people in our generation, and especially like at this school, I think feel pretty similarly about a lot of like, big social issues. Or at least, I mean, I'm also in the architecture school where, I don't know, I feel like design schools tend to be a little bit more like, progressive. Progressive? Yeah. So I feel like most people that I've interacted with or had these conversations with in the architecture school, like, believe similar things. And a lot of people I've made friends with believe similar things. At least the things like their beliefs that I know about have been pretty similar to mine. I can talk to Emma about a lot of these things. And so I feel pretty understood. I would say that I feel a little bit, I feel a little bit misunderstood sometimes. At home, I'm bi and like I said before, my family is Christian. And like, that is something that it took a while for my parents to wrap their heads around. And they're trying, and they're not like, sorry, it's happening again, but they like, they're trying and they're doing like a fairly good job. But like, even on the way down here, I was having a conversation with my dad and it was like 2 hours long. Him, like explaining all the reasons why he doesn't think that the Bible explicitly supports gay people, but he doesn't think that it's against gay people. And it was like he was trying to be supportive, but the way in which he was being supportive was still kind of like, it didn't feel supportive to me. And so I was trying to explain to him that, like, this isn't helpful. Like, I don't believe the bible is against me. Like, I believe in Jesus. I have no problem with who I am. But the way he was, like, trying to justify it for himself or for me, like, I appreciate that he was trying. The act of trying that it was just the ways he was explaining himself did not make me feel more understood. So, like, that's, like, the big experience that I've had with my parents. And I also, like, a lot of my extended family wouldn't, like, don't know, because they, like, I have an aunt and uncle who I love very much, but they wouldn't be okay with it at all. And so they don't know at all, and I don't know if they will ever know unless they have to. And so it's that kind of thing that, like, sometimes I feel more like I can be myself here because there's, like, a much more. I mean, we're not even, like, that diverse of a school, but it's more diverse than my life at home is. So, anyway, I feel a little bit misunderstood by my family sometimes, but I don't feel, like, unloved or something. It's just like, people here don't even question things. Like, they're just like, oh, that's normal. So, yeah.

39:39 Yeah, I also feel. I think he's justifying a lot. I think it's okay to be, like, even if your parents have good intentions, it's okay to, like. You don't have to justify it by saying they don't. They love me. Sometimes people do things wrong.

40:05 Yeah. This is also true.

40:07 Yeah. I'm really sorry. That's really hard, but I'm glad that QVA has been better.

40:12 Thank you. Anyway. Have you ever felt misunderstood?

40:20 I guess I don't really think that I've been. I've felt misunderstood here as much. I would honestly say the only really time I've experienced this here is in my classes. I take a lot of classes with a lot of political men. Specific type of person.

40:54 Yeah.

40:55 I kind of sometimes feel like my answers or my opinions aren't heard as much as theirs are.

41:06 Yeah.

41:06 Or they feel more confident to express Emma in the first place. I was literally just ranting about this to my group yesterday because I was in class and I was trying to answer something that I actually know a lot about, and I just kept getting talked over, and I literally just wanted to cry because I was like, I actually know what I'm talking about. And also, I don't think you do. What you're saying doesn't really sound right.

41:29 But so, yeah.

41:30 Yeah, I would say that's kind of the only way I really experienced that here. I think the way at home, I. Growing up and in my, like, teenage years and, like, early high school, I had, like, a lot of mental health issues.

41:52 Mm hmm.

41:54 Like, pretty severe. And I. Neither of my siblings had any issues like that. It was kind of, like I was just, like, this, like, last child who, like, kind of had a lot of issues attached to her, which sounds really bad, but, like, it was just a lot of work for my parents. My dad is not an emotional person at all. Never. His dad died. I never saw him cry, like, that type of thing. Like, he just. I've never really felt understood by him in that way. And my. My mom, I just felt like a burden. I felt like I was a burden because, like I said earlier, we both are just really, like, feeling people. And so her seeing me sad was, like, a very hard thing for me to see. And I honestly just felt a lot of guilt, which turned into.

42:47 Which isn't fair. Yeah.

42:48 Which kind of turned into me feeling like I couldn't really express how I was feeling in a way that was healthy for the people around me. So that was hard to get through because I just kind of felt, like. Like, lonely sometimes in that way. And my family, like, no one. Like, my mom has great intentions. She's always asking me how I am. Always asking me, like, making sure that I'm still okay while I'm gone and everything. But I think that was probably.

43:29 A.

43:29 Tough thing to experience in, like, that time because you feel lonely in general. It's like, you're, like, at this awkward stage of your life, and I just was having, like, a lot of, like, eating issues and, like, just, like, I'm a really, like, anxious person. And before that, I didn't, like, I hadn't, like, understood. Like, I had a lot of, like, health issues, too, that were related to anxiety. Like, I would have to go home from school a lot because, like, my stomach was hurting really bad, and I was like, I have no idea why. Just things like that. Like, I felt, like, a lot of, like, miscommunication, not really, like, realizing what was going on, but. Yeah.

44:08 Well, I'm sorry that you had to feel, like, lonelier and maybe you already were.

44:14 Thank you.

44:19 Yeah.

44:20 And I just want to.

44:21 I just appreciate you both being open and vulnerable. I know that it can be hard to talk about tough personal experiences, but thank you. I'm a pretty open book. All right, the next question, I guess we're just skipping the. We can always go back to the moment or experience, too, because I know.

44:44 You guys have covered a lot of ground.

44:45 So if there's something that's on there that you want to kind of tweak.

44:48 Something that's more interesting to you, you can do that as well.

44:51 Okay. I mean, I like the next question. If you're.

44:54 Which one? Do you have a feeling misunderstood?

44:57 No, I think we just did that one.

44:59 Oh. Oh, yeah.

45:01 How do you ever feel troubled by people? Okay. Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you and how they communicate those beliefs to others?

45:09 Yes. What jumps out to me is my dad. I just. We have a lot of similar beliefs, but he's a really different person. He goes about things in really different ways in terms of expressing himself. So the things that we don't agree on, it's a lot. There's a lot of tension. So we kind of have the same beliefs, but he will have it in a more traditional way, and then, like, gets upset when other people are, like, more. I don't really know, like. Like, say, not necessarily say things in different ways, just, like, kind of, like, act on things in different ways. That's really big.

46:11 Yeah.

46:11 So I just feel like it's kind of a niche, like, relationship there, because even though it's, like, in general, very similar beliefs, there's just a lot of the small differences is really what gets in the way. And I also think a lot of people tend to be, like, authoritative with their views, kind of, like, trying to force it on others and not. I mean, I don't. I honestly, I just feel like it's really complicated in, like, the way that, like, a lot of people have, like you were saying earlier, like, opinions that aren't, in my opinion, healthy for, like, society in general. But I think a lot of people with the same belief, like, a lot of people, I do think, like, people joke about Uva being, like, a lot of, like, I don't want to say, like, snobby.

47:24 Whoa.

47:25 Yeah. A lot of. Yeah. Just kind of. You know what I mean? Snobby. People who, like, are very, like, I'm right. What I'm saying is right. And everyone else just kind of has to, like, go along with it. So I think, like, a lot of people here, like, are not as open to conversations and different opinions, then maybe they could be at a school like this, because obviously we're really progressive in a political way. But just think there's a lot of feeling superior, and sometimes it comes across in, like, expressing these beliefs to other people, even if they're the same.

48:27 Yeah. Yeah.

48:29 So that's my thought.

48:31 Oh, yeah, I agree. I think this is kind of, like, similar to what you were getting at. I had, like, a lot of experiences with even friends who I think speak, and I really hope I don't do this because it annoys me so much. I really hope I don't do this, but a lot of people, like, express their beliefs as if they're fact.

48:48 Yeah.

48:48 And.

48:49 Yeah, sorry, go. And I just feel like that's kind of what I was trying to say.

48:53 Yeah, yeah. I thought it was. I was like, oh, that's reminding. Yeah. Of that. Like, and even when it's the same one, it's like, oh, maybe there's a little tiny piece of that that I don't agree with. Or maybe, like, the extent to which you are expressing this belief is, like, you know, like, an extent or, like, a level of enthusiasm I don't agree with. But you're saying, like, this is truth, this is fact. And I'm like, well, that's not fact to me, but it's one of those things that doesn't really make it very open for you to say, well, I agree with this, but, like, oh, I think that maybe this is a better way for society to deal with this problem, because then it feels like you're gonna be told, like, oh, no, you're wrong. Or. But, like, just kind of your thoughts are gonna be, like, pushed aside. And I think it makes it a lot harder to, like, actually either express your own beliefs or, like, allow. I mean, even allow anybody else in, like, a group conversation when one person is like, oh, yeah. Like, this is the case. And they say it with so much confidence and so much, like, this is the right thing to believe. And if you don't believe this, then, like, suddenly I don't like you. And I think it's like, that's also, in my experience, that's, like, the same kind of person as those who see everything in black and white. Like, I kind of. I've realized I have, like, this little, like, philosophical theory that some people view things in, like, grayscale, and some people view things in black and white. So I have, like, a lot of best friends who, like, someone does something, they're like, she's a bad person, he's a bad person. And I personally don't necessarily believe in, like, good people or bad people. I think that, like, on spectrums, yes, there are good people and there are bad people, but I think most people are somewhere in between. And, like, they do good things and they do bad things, and I don't want to, like, completely write someone off because of one thing they did. And then I think a lot of my experiences have led me to believe that, like, if you get to know someone over time, they tend to surprise you in a good way. And so, like, yes, I will form, like, critical opinions of things that people have done or of people themselves, but I don't think that means that I can never, like someone that I disliked before. If, like, another situation arises and I get the sense from other people, I know that that is not the case, and I don't know if that's the case. Like, they might be perfectly open in their head, but the way that they express their beliefs makes me feel like, oh, if I express something that's different from Emma then I'm going to be written off as, like, someone they can't be friends with or something like that. Or, like, once they form an opinion about somebody, it never changes. And then, like, that makes me more nervous for interaction with Emma And, like, I feel like it's harder to make a mistake when I feel like the other person is either, like, automatically gonna judge me for it or will, like, automatically write me off. So it's not to say that I'm not friends with people who are like that, but I think I struggle more with, like, having, like, open conversations and friendships with some of my friends who I think see things in more black and white ways and, like, speak their opinion like it's fact.

52:09 So. Yeah, no, I understand that. So we are. I mean, we're coming towards the end of time. I mean, I'm happy to stay for.

52:20 A little bit longer if you do.

52:21 Want to cover that last question before we do closings. It is interesting, but also want to.

52:28 Be considered for your time, we can.

52:30 Move towards those closing questions. Sure. I'm ready to go to the closing one.

52:37 Yeah, I mean, I'm ready. I don't.

52:41 I always say this, like, these are not the periods.

52:45 Yes. We are never going to be again conversation.

52:51 So, yeah, I'll let y'all ask some closing questions and wrap up.

52:55 Okay.

52:57 Okay. Is there something about my beliefs that you don't agree with but still respect?

53:03 I know this is gonna be, like, a really boring answer, but not really. Like, I felt like we were tending to agree on things, and it feels like we have somewhat similar, like, family or home experiences. I didn't. I mean, I think that we're, like, our specific passions lie in, like, different issues, but that's not something to disagree with. That's just, like. I mean, that's how I think that's how it should be. Like, I think people. That's how we get things done is people who want to do different things with their lives and care about different issues. So I agree. I didn't really feel like we had anything.

53:44 I don't think I was like, no, yeah. I don't really have anything to answer with that. Was there anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

53:58 I mean, I think, if anything, it was just surprising how many similarities we found with each other, because I think I really didn't know what to expect coming in, I was like, dude, we could disagree on every single issue under the sun, and how is that gonna go? And then we didn't. And I was like, oh, so, like, I'm talking to someone who's, like, pretty like minded and has. I mean, obviously, we have, like, different personal experiences. Like, we talked about being misunderstood, but, like, I think a lot of our other, like, general family experiences are pretty similar. Like, even down to, like, the Uva obsessed family. I was like, oh, I also come from Uva obsessed family. And that was kind of, like, a surprising similarity.

54:44 Yeah. No, I was honestly thinking the same thing. Like, it's kind of surprising how I feel like a lot of personal experiences aren't laid out in such a short period of time.

54:56 Yeah.

54:57 And so it's, like. It's, like, not always, like, easy to see, like, the parallels, how, like, we've had, like, really different lives and experiences. It honestly comes down to the same kind of pattern.

55:07 Yeah, but that's a really good way, which is.

55:09 I just think it's fascinating. So, yeah, I mean. Okay, what do you think the most important thing you learned was during this?

55:25 I think that it's not so much, like, one thing I learned, but I think this helped with, like, finding concise ways to express my beliefs, because kind of walking into it, I was thinking, oh, I don't. I don't really know how I, like, briefly describe my personal political beliefs, and I don't really know that I did it briefly, but I don't really say anything briefly, so. But I think that this kind of helped teach me how to communicate what I believe. And I think that also hearing how you talked about the things that you believe in also gave me, like, more ideas of how to, like, effectively communicate things, because I liked a lot of the ways that you said.

56:07 I just thinking. Yeah, I think it's like. I feel like it's important to see how people can build off of each other in conversations like these. Like, I mean, not even if we, like, weren't, like, agreeing on everything. It's like, yeah, hearing you talk about things that you're interested in that you want to learn about and do with your life, it's like you can see kind of like, where. How to go off of that. I think that was important. And also just like, what I was just saying about how, like, people with really different experiences can still have a lot of similarities and. Yeah, like, how they've kind of, I guess, felt while going through those experiences. So I think that's an important thing to think about in general and, like, might not come out outside of, like, things like this conversation.

57:01 Yeah, I was. I was thinking that as well. Like, if we walked by each other in a library or, like, in the dining hall or on the street, like, would we necessarily, like, get any of this that we've talked about from each other? And I don't know, obviously, and we'll never find out because we're here, but I just think this is, like, a really unique way to learn more about someone else. And it also kind of reminds you that there's literally all of the people in our public service pathways class. Like, we know nothing about Emma

57:43 And.

57:47 I guess that's kind of an important lesson for me in keeping an open mind because I have no idea how the same dialogue would go with any of those people. And so I don't really know what's going on inside their heads or the childhood experiences that shaped their beliefs. So I think that's interesting thing to think about.

58:12 Hopefully you'll get the chance to explore these things. Yeah, I do this at the beginning of the semester because that gives everyone.

58:17 Some tools to hopefully engage.

58:21 Well, thank you both so much for your time.

58:23 Thank you.

58:24 It's really always a privilege to listen to people's stories.

58:27 Yeah, you hear a lot of, you hear a lot of interesting stories. I'm sure it's the best part of the job. Yeah.