Ethan Maile and Christina Maile

[00:06] CHRISTINA MAILE: My name is Christina Maile I am 78 years old. Today's date is July 7, 2023. And we're at Hauser and Worth Gallery. The name of my interview partner is Ethan Maile who is my son.

[00:26] ETHAN MAILE: My name is Ethan Maile I am 52 years old. Today's date is July 7, 2023. I am at Hauser and Worth Gallery. The name of my interview partner is Christina, and she is my mother. And being her son, the first question I'd like to ask is, what did you like to do as a kid?

[00:52] CHRISTINA MAILE: I grew up in a kind of poor, violent neighborhood, and so a lot of things I did were kind of violent. So the most things I did was making zip guns and throwing stones at other kids over the backyard fence or attacking them behind the hedge of my parents house. So a lot of it had to do with just. And also, I was kind of alone. I had a brother and sister, but a lot of times, they weren't as interested in being as violent as I was. So I was pretty much a solitary sniper.

[01:32] ETHAN MAILE: What did the other kids in the block not like you or was there ostrich?

[01:38] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, you know, it was odd, because I was both like, a kind of outsider in my family because I read a lot. And, you know, when I wasn't fighting or attacking someone behind the hedge, I was reading, okay, interesting.

[01:56] ETHAN MAILE: You know, there's a lot of aggression there. Just directed outwardly.

[02:00] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes. I don't know why. And I've tried to not have that kind of aggressive attitudes in later life, but I think part of it. Part of it I understood as a reason was that your grandfather was from know, a Dayak tribe in Borneo, and which is located in generally in Malaysia. And the British got the word Malay from Malaysia, and Malay was like, this unrestrained, violent kind of happening. So I think part of my aggressive behavior is part of that when I was younger, was genetic.

[02:42] ETHAN MAILE: So you mean melee, as in. Yes. Wow. Yeah.

[02:46] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, what were you like as a kid?

[02:49] ETHAN MAILE: I mean, with background, usually I was the one getting rocks thrown at. No, it. We. You know, we were brought up in a much different environment, you know, in an artist community, artist housing. So, you know, we like to draw and, you know, watch movies and I and all the other stuff that kids do. But the main thing being in an undeveloped post industrial neighborhood was we like to walk around abandoned buildings and up on rooftops and use those spaces as the imaginary places because we didn't have woods to go to, necessarily, but you could go up to the roof, and there were no adults, and you could, you know, run around and climb on the water towers, you know, sit on the ledge 13 floors up, you know.

[03:41] CHRISTINA MAILE: Whatever, which I never knew about.

[03:43] ETHAN MAILE: Well, of course, because, you know, why should you? Yeah, we took a lot of risks. And there was, you know, growing up, there was a kid from our building who lost his life playing in an abandoned building, as you remember. So that was a big wake up call for us to kind of maybe not do the abandoned buildings so much, but we still played on the roof. We used to climb down to the old high line and used to, you know, just walk up and down, but that's usually where the older kids would go smoke pot or cigarettes. So you had to really, you know, be careful. But, yeah, we were. The kids that I grew up with, we were all kind of sensitive, you know, because our parents are artists. So we were looking at the world and kind this different light. And, you know, the kids who grew up two blocks away on 11th street, just regular kids, they were tough kids, and they would always come over to Westbeth and, like, harass us, and we'd run back up to the apartment. But, you know, I was adventurous, like, to draw, a little introverted. I was the youngest of two. I was part of that generation where both parents worked, were going to school and worked. So I was a latchkey kid, as it were. But growing up in Greenwich Village was absolutely amazing when I look back on it now and see how other people's situations are. So what made you feel like you wanted to leave Brooklyn, though, when you. Because when you got older, I mean, instead of going to getting a job in the city or going to college locally, you went to Michigan.

[05:37] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, I went to because I read a lot. I sort of knew a lot of things. But, you know, like, nowadays you have the Internet, and I actually didn't know a lot of things. I know a lot of bookish things. I liked history and science fiction, so. And so when I graduated, I went to a catholic high school, which is very strict. And when I graduated, you either went to become a nun or get married, or you went to St. Joseph's College, which they kind of tried, but my parents didn't want me to go to college. They wanted me to get a job and help because I had six brothers.

[06:14] ETHAN MAILE: You were the oldest?

[06:15] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes. I forget how many brothers and sisters I had, but there were six. There were a whole lot of them. And so they expect me to go to work. And I came across this brochure about Michigan and. No, no. I won a regents scholarship. I won a regent scholarship. And because I won it, some colleges sent me a letter, and one of the letters came from Michigan, this college. I went to Oakland University because they were looking for people to populate their college. They had just opened, and they were going to offer me a. A scholarship. And they sent a brochure that showed a public. A building, a library building, which was brand new. And kids running around, college kids. And I fell in love with it because I fell in love with the idea of having, like, a library.

[07:06] ETHAN MAILE: All those books.

[07:07] CHRISTINA MAILE: All those books. I actually never. When I was growing up, I didn't know there was public library. I thought there was only the library at school. And I used to, as, you know, shoplift, and that's how I got books. So then. So I told my. I didn't tell my parents. I filled out the application. I went to the bank. I told the bank that my parents didn't speak English and that I would be the interlocker and I would fill out everything. And so then they accepted me. And so a couple of days before, I didn't know how to get to the airport, so I had to ask my father. And my father said, no, you have to stay and work. They were all mad. My mother and father were completely angry with me. But then my father and mother, as you know, were not always on the same side. They constantly argued. So when my mother began arguing against me going, my father changed his mind and said, no, let her go. And so that's how I wound up in college. And the building was beautiful. It was this brand new building. The dorms were still stables. That's how new the college or the boys dorms were stables. And so there was, like, these miles and miles of books. And so I.

[08:24] ETHAN MAILE: Well, you know, as someone who went away to college as well, I went to a city, like, to another city. So it just felt like it would be easier. I know that you and Daddy were a couple in college, right? He was older, and he had an opportunity to go to either, you know, California or New York.

[08:46] CHRISTINA MAILE: I know. I always thought, God, you know. Cause I forced him to go to New York.

[08:50] ETHAN MAILE: Well, that's what I was gonna say was. Cause, you know, we sometimes talk about home and, you know, moving to other places. You were only in college for two years at that point, right? So you're away from home, where you beg to get out. You know, you're, like, out of here, but it was really your home that you wanted to leave. But it didn't, I guess, really matter to him. He wanted to come to New York City anyway.

[09:12] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes, he did. He grew up in the midwest, so New York City, to him, was really an exciting place to paycheck.

[09:20] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah, but what was your like? Cause when I was in college, I was only in Boston, so I could come back. I would come back all the time. I would come back too much, probably, so it's not like I miss New York. When I moved to California, that's when I was just, you know, we had this huge physical distance. But what was your, like, why did you go, let's go to New York, you know, even though it had all this baggage.

[09:45] CHRISTINA MAILE: Baggage?

[09:45] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah.

[09:47] CHRISTINA MAILE: You know, as. Even though I was in Michigan and my world expanded, I had really very little contact with the real world. In fact, you know, when I went to your dad's parents house, it, to me was like a tv show because they had the picture window and the lamp, and he played golf, and they had a lawn, and, you know, it's like, yeah, it was so pretend, and I thought that was the rest of the. That was the way the rest of the world was. And I actually missed kind of the excitement of New York.

[10:21] ETHAN MAILE: Sure. I mean, that's. I. It's. As a native New Yorker, you know, I think I'm, like, a lifelong New Yorker myself, because when I moved to Los Angeles, you know, it's a tough place. Of course, I didn't know how to drive, you know, so I would get jobs where they would pick you up, you know, like pa jobs, but, you know, and I'd always fantasize about living in California and the beach and the great weather and all that stuff was there. It was really like one of dad's eagles albums, like, come to life, you know, in my head, because the sunsets were purple because of the smog. But I do remember I was home one day, as I was all the time and in our apartment, and I was watching the New York City Marathon on tv, and I saw, you know, and I was like, oh, well, yeah, the marathon's on. And I saw people running through the streets of Brooklyn and Queens. I saw the color of the leaves, and I'd only been in California for a few months, and I was just like, you know, I want to go back, like, well. Cause the. You know, you can only maybe know you, like certain things once you leave it or don't. Like. I began not to, like, having a degree. Sunny weather every single day. Like, every day. It's like living forever. Everything blends into one. So I missed the seasonal change of New York and yeah. So it's. For me, it's always interesting to think about, you know, migrations and people traveling and why they come to New York, because I always feel so lucky just being born here.

[12:04] CHRISTINA MAILE: My second husband, as you know, Pavus, is from Iran. So I've gone back and forth to Iran in the same way you've gone back and forth to Paris and spent a lot of time there. And, you know, there's all these social aspects of it that are very onerous if you're a woman. But he loves this country so Iran so much, despite all the political and social and civil and, you know, oppressive regime, because, like you, he misses, like, the air or the way the streets, Tehran, the way they move and the way these trees grow and. And, you know, he says, I'll never go back to live.

[12:48] ETHAN MAILE: Right.

[12:49] CHRISTINA MAILE: But we have to. We have to go back, like, every couple of years. And for me, it's like this real kind of penance for all the sins of my life to go to. Not. I don't want to downgrade Iran. It's a great. It's a great culture, it's a great language, beautiful food. But, you know, because of the political situation, it's very difficult for me to go there. But I recognize that he needs that even. He's lived here for 60 years. He will never be. He will never, not ever want to go back, even just to stay for a couple of weeks.

[13:23] ETHAN MAILE: Right, right. Yeah.

[13:25] CHRISTINA MAILE: So his migration is a little bit the same as yours, in a way, because he. It's the intangible things that you miss.

[13:33] ETHAN MAILE: Right. You know, and it's what I was gonna say when you were talking, of course. I was thinking while you were talking, I was listening, but I had just recently gone back to Chinatown after a couple years because the pandemic. And then, you know, being busy and I was with a cousin from Michigan, and I stopped and I was like, take that smell in. And her face was just like, oh. Cause it was fish and garbage and, you know, gasoline. And I was like, mmm. You know, I love, like, what the seaport used to smell like back in the day or what the West Village meatpacking used to smell like when we were living there. So I can understand, like, the sense of smell of a place doing that for you, though, on your third or fourth trip to Iran, I was just like, this is it only because I agree with Parvis, because we lived under Trump, Bush, et cetera, you can't define a people necessarily by the government that's controlling them, but at the same time, I always felt you had to take all these regressive steps, and you're such a troublemaker that, you know, you took pictures underneath your shadow, you know, whatever, which, if you got caught, would have been, you know, maybe not the biggest deal, but you never know what a. You know, what a commodity an American could be in a country like Iran. But what I do love is that you were able to be a citizen of the world, though, because you're married to him and you have an iranian passport. So you get to go to countries that Americans can't go to.

[15:20] CHRISTINA MAILE: I get to go to North Korea.

[15:23] ETHAN MAILE: Well, I mean, you know, if that, you know, it's your boat. I mean, we.

[15:28] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, you know, speaking about the ch'door, it also occurs to me that, you know, because under the ch'door, you know, I mean, these women wear these things, but they're underneath, there's, you know, they wear jewelry, there's makeup, there's low cut dress. I couldn't believe one day, you know, we're having this little party, family party. This woman takes off the scarf, the thing, the gloves, and she's wearing this really low cut, sexy dress. But, I mean, it's like how we hide things anyway from each other in just our skin. So, like, I know when you wrote to me that you were gay, I actually kind of knew that a long time before you told me.

[16:11] ETHAN MAILE: I mean, I would hope so. Only. Cause, I mean, I don't know if I just, you know, I looked at dancing. I mean, I don't know. I thought you'd be. I thought you knew already.

[16:19] CHRISTINA MAILE: I did, and I knew. And yet it was. But, like, you know, it was like I knew you. I know you so well, and I knew a little bit about that. And. But then when you wrote to me, and it was still a shock because I saw a life that I hadn't anticipated for you.

[16:40] ETHAN MAILE: Gotcha. Yeah. You know, when you grow up gay, you see a life that is anticipated for you that, you know, is not gonna be your life. Because at the time, seventies and eighties, you know, there was no broadness as it is somewhat today. Yeah, that was. You know, I mean, I think I inherited a little bit of your troublemakerness because I wrote that to you. Cause I was getting bad grades. I was like, this would be a great excuse. I'm like, you know, it's like, mom, gay, I'm really having a hard time. And it didn't work because I said.

[17:13] CHRISTINA MAILE: You still have to have grades, right?

[17:14] ETHAN MAILE: You still have to walk the dog. You still gotta go to school. I was just like, right. Why would I tell my, you know, extremely liberal feminist mother, like, why would you buy it? I was like, I should have told dad, you know, whatever he's. But, yeah, I mean, that also taught me something, too, because when I was at college, it was a communications college in Boston, so, you know the phrase at the school is gay by may ever, right. Emerson. Great school. But when I was there, I had made a conscious decision almost pre don't ask, don't tell. Like, I'm not going to pretend I'm something I'm not, you know, nor am I going to necessarily comfortable with telling people who I am on the inside. I'm just gonna be myself. And it came to be one of those things where, you know, recently. Cause I've had the same friends for.

[18:12] CHRISTINA MAILE: College friends for 35 years.

[18:16] ETHAN MAILE: Luck. A lot of us were on the same floor. I don't know how, you know, it worked out. But when I talked to them recently about that time, some of them were like, yeah, we just assumed so. But it didn't matter, you know, some were just like, yeah, it didn't even really occur because it wasn't really, you know, a topic of. You weren't always like, horn dog person or whatever, and, you know, so. Which I'm not anyway, but it was just interesting to know that, like, you know, people also gave me that space because I was almost defining, like, I don't talk about this kind of thing, so don't bring it up to me. Also, I had a reputation of being really cutting because I was from New York City, and so people were scared automatically because, you know, even Boston, they were just like, well. Cause Boston people are like New York. But, you know, most of the kids were very few from the city. And you just, you know, it was one of those things when we were kids, we visited grandparents in Arizona. You know, all the kids just thought we were the toughest things. Me, Julian, maybe my older brother, but I. I was a softie. But because we lived in this, you know, where, you know, blocks are on fire, you know, crack and all this, you know, other stuff. And it's just so interesting because then, you know, to us, we're like, but you live in the woods with axe murderers and, you know, methamphetamine farms and, you know, this whole other, you know, fear of the other. Yeah. So whenever I'm in. In the woods, I'm always locking the doors. Like, I locked my sister out of her own house because I was just going to bed locking the doors, and she was walking the dog, you know, out in the yard because she's from up there. And they do lock the doors, but not as passionately as I do. But it's, you know, so you think about the perceptions of where you live compared to your own actual experiences. Been mugged a few times. I had a gun held up to my head. I mean, so it's not, you know, it's just typical living in New York, you know, when. When I had a gun held in my head. It was on my birthday, as I recall. You know, of course, I. The guys are sitting on the stoop up at 123rd Street. I was like, hello, you know, have a good night. Because I was raised to be so anti judgmental of people that you. It was almost like this trigger. It's two in the morning, and these guys are hanging on the stoop, you know, obviously in my back of my head, it's like, you know, hmm. But that's how you, like, you raise us. You know, you raise us not to be like, we're fearful, but you don't invite that kind of energy.

[21:06] CHRISTINA MAILE: Right.

[21:07] ETHAN MAILE: But, of course, get in the lobby, they pull the gun, and, you know, happy birthday.

[21:11] CHRISTINA MAILE: I remember you said that they. Cause the police came, and you said the only thing you saw was the gun. That you didn't actually even see who they were.

[21:17] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah, no, yeah. Cause it was. Yeah, it's like a, you know, old movie where they close in on circle. Cause it was right in my, you know, a couple inches from my head. But being, you know, also a graduate of New York City public schools, when they. I could tell they were drug addicts right away because we lived across from, you know, one of the housing projects, and they said, do what we say, and we won't hurt you. And I believe them immediately because I knew the way the guy said it. I was like, you only get shot because they get scared.

[21:56] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yeah, that's.

[21:57] ETHAN MAILE: They are terrified because what they really want is the drug. They don't want to actually hold you up, you know? Unfortunately, they got the fountain head by Ayn Rand. That was, like, in my bag. I was like, good luck. I can't even get through this schlock, you know, and a bottle of Kahlua that someone gave me for my birthday. But they. They checked our socks. They couldn't believe we didn't have any money. And I was just like, you know, why do you think we live up here? Like, you know, why do you think we're here? Well, but it's one of those things that also. Another thing that highlights about something that's permeated both our lives is being mixed race myself because they thought I had money because probably of I was with another white guy, and we worked at Fo Schwartz, so we had to wear ties. And so they thought we were actually, like office people. But we're really just selling matchbox cars for minimum wage, trying to make rent up in morningside Heights. But I've come across that a lot where you, obviously, you're a woman of color, but of different races of color with your parents. But. And my brother looks more of a mixed race person. But I never thought you raised him as a mixed race person, as me, as a white presenting person, or. Or raised us like, if we had come out looking exactly like you, you would have raised us the same way, just as based on the people we were.

[23:33] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, you know, it's interesting. My, my. As you know, my my family, you know, looks very people of color. But when they came here, they. All they wanted to do was to be assimilated.

[23:45] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah.

[23:46] CHRISTINA MAILE: They didn't want to have. I mean, it's only by luck that they told me all of the stories about life in the West Indies and life in. In Borneo, which I use in my artwork. But I totally remember them when I brought your dad home. The white guy from the Midwest, beaver. From lever to beaver, I hit the jackpot. And it was worth me going to college because I brought him home.

[24:16] ETHAN MAILE: Right, because he dropped out, which is right.

[24:19] CHRISTINA MAILE: But he turned out to be a great guy. He loved everything about. In fact, he's the one that continues the tradition of making a beef curry.

[24:28] ETHAN MAILE: Grandpa's curry. Yeah, he makes it with chicken. And I told him, you know, even though I don't eat beef, I was like, you know, I think you should start making with beef because that's how Grandpa made it. I think it has something to do.

[24:39] CHRISTINA MAILE: Well, you should actually learn how to make it. You should carry on.

[24:42] ETHAN MAILE: Well, when I was in Chinatown, I was looking for malaysian curry. And so, you know, I walk in and. And I'm asking spice, which I think is a universal word inside. You go inside and spice. And then, no. And then couldn't find Malaysia curry. And Jacinta from Malaysia, when I asked her, like, how do you make the curry? And she said, go to Chinatown and ask for malaysian curry. Period. The end. I was like, okay. And so then I eventually went to a malaysian tea house.

[25:17] CHRISTINA MAILE: Oh, yeah, they had it.

[25:18] ETHAN MAILE: Well, here's the thing. I didn't want to be, like, some yahoo. So I started, my grandfather is malaysian. He was born in Saba, and he used to make this wonderful curry. And I've been looking for malaysian curry powder. And the malaysian guys who worked there were in their twenties probably in a way, maybe more distant from the culture than we are holding on to because new. And they're. And they had no, they were like, uh oh, they have. We sell, like, food with. I was like, but not curry because it was a tea house. So. But it came to be one of those things on, you know, you have to look on Amazon. But it is interesting sometimes when Julian and I, my brother will have the same opinion on something, but because he looks a certain way, it's almost an accept you more accept his opinion. When I say it. People are like, what? You know, as if I. Why would a white person be saying that? Like, sometimes I call people white devils when they break the traffic rule, like grandma used to say. And it's such a. People look at me like you're white. Like, well, but doesn't change the fact that, you know, whatever I, you know. So there's a certain. I always have to play a certain. It's not a game, obviously, but a tightrope of, you know, what is, what would be acceptable for me to not think, because I think whatever I want to think, but acceptable in someone else who's perceiving me as a student. I know you growing up, being west indian and asian, you can elaborate on this, but my opinion on was, it was just about what someone's, someone had a prejudice about something. You fulfilled it. Like, you could either. You could look asian to them if they didn't like Asians. You could look latino to them if they didn't like Latinos. You could look black to them. And nobody would always make.

[27:26] CHRISTINA MAILE: When I worked for the parks department, the reason I think I got promoters because they thought I was italian.

[27:34] ETHAN MAILE: Is that what you. You put that on the.

[27:37] CHRISTINA MAILE: No, I didn't know some. I was. I walked into a meeting one day, and I think they asked me about something because they thought I was italian.

[27:44] ETHAN MAILE: No, I was gonna say no. You put it on your marriage license with Tad because. Still illegal.

[27:50] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes. No one. That was a little different. When I went to, when we got married, we got married in Michigan at, you know, early.

[27:56] ETHAN MAILE: And it was, it was.

[27:57] CHRISTINA MAILE: And then you had to put down your race and they had.

[27:59] ETHAN MAILE: That's like, put italian, your dad said.

[28:02] CHRISTINA MAILE: Because I didn't know what to check. It was like the first. I had never been asked this question before. So I didn't know. And, you know, getting married was like, I didn't actually want to get married, but, you know, we got married. I mean, I didn't. Not because I didn't like your dad. It was just because it seemed like a complication that I hadn't anticipated. So I was just looking at, you know, this form, and it said, blah, blah, blah. And I said, you know, and it had race, black. I know I had Negro, white. I don't know. Something else, maybe I had canadian. I don't know. But. Because there's. So anyway, he said. And I picked up and he said. He whispered. He said, put down check white. Check white. So I checked white. Because I think at the time, there was still anti miscegnation laws.

[28:42] ETHAN MAILE: I was pre loving.

[28:44] CHRISTINA MAILE: So, yeah, I mean, no, it was. It was. Each state had their own. No matter what the supposed supreme Court had said, because I'm not sure exactly when loving was, but each state had their own old forms, and he just wanted to avoid any kind of complication. So it was the first time I put down white. And it felt so funny to put down white, because here my parents had always, like, aspired to this kind of middle class, you know, from tv for lighter students. And here I was checking white.

[29:15] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah. You're getting married. Checking white. They're like, our dreams have come true.

[29:20] CHRISTINA MAILE: Pretty soon I'll have that picture window with a lamp in it.

[29:23] ETHAN MAILE: I know you came back white. Mom. Dad.

[29:27] CHRISTINA MAILE: Hi, mom. What? Guess what?

[29:29] ETHAN MAILE: It does remind me now. Well, I remember in the 2000 census. This is a while ago. I think it was one of the first times they had broadened the racial categories. I remember college applications. You encouraged me to check every single thing I was. And Howard University was like, we'll give you $5,000. I was like, no, my gosh, this didn't work out that we planned. But can I just ask you. I'm sorry, Tommy Tug. I know we get so enthusiastic, but on the 2000 census, think it was early on in their kind of expanding the race categories. They came, you know, came to the apartment, and a couple friends, a couple of roommates were upstairs, and I was like, oh, it's the. You know, this will be fun. I've never done it before. And it was about a half an hour with the lady because she didn't know which box to check either, because she's like, you know, how many are you checking? I was just like, well, my grandfather was 80, you know. I mean, my mother's asian, she's hispanic. She's also black. And then, you know, my father's white. And then it was the first time I saw, which was interesting. Latino white, latino, non white. And so I remember checking Latino white because I was like, oh, Spanish from Puerto Rico. And I somehow remember there was some kind of issue between his family and him marrying grandma Gladys.

[31:09] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes. He abandoned the family.

[31:10] ETHAN MAILE: He, I always thought because he was like a puerto rican, spanish derived lighter. And because your, your aunt Margie has that straight black hair, right. And, but your great, your mother is lighter skinned but has curly hair.

[31:25] CHRISTINA MAILE: I know it's like this.

[31:27] ETHAN MAILE: It's, well, that's, it's how, you know. And then Julie and I come out, you know, differently as well. But it's, you know, it's like toast.

[31:35] CHRISTINA MAILE: You put it on high, you put it on low, you put it in between.

[31:38] ETHAN MAILE: And you think about it too, all the time. Like mixed race people don't always come out the same. We're not always the same neutral color.

[31:44] CHRISTINA MAILE: Right. I know that you can identify.

[31:46] ETHAN MAILE: It comes in all, you know, it comes in all varieties. There is something, though, talking about your family and your life. I've always wanted to know, you know, feel free to not answer, but did you have a boyfriend when you were in high school?

[31:59] CHRISTINA MAILE: No. No, I went to this catholic high school which my, my parents were always lying about where we lived because we lived on a terrible block. And so in order to get to this high school, I had to live somewhere else. So, so all the people in my high school, actually, it was in downtown Brooklyn and they actually were italian. So maybe I did kind of absorb the italianness. But anyway, they. So I forgot what the question. Oh, did I have a boy? No, because it was an all girls high school. Your dad actually was my first boy.

[32:38] ETHAN MAILE: Because I knew you had, you were in a gang and you had a boy. There was a boy gang and the girl.

[32:43] CHRISTINA MAILE: And there was a girl gang. Well, there was, they call them like the auxiliary wasn't. We didn't actually do anything except hang around with the boys.

[32:50] ETHAN MAILE: Right.

[32:51] CHRISTINA MAILE: But I, it was also very druggy, which is why I kind of didn't like it. And. But my sister, as you know, got involved and became an addict.

[32:59] ETHAN MAILE: Well, you know, I didn't have a boyfriend in high school either.

[33:02] CHRISTINA MAILE: Oh, so there we go.

[33:03] ETHAN MAILE: There you go. There you are. I got one in college. Yeah, I know. I remember.

[33:08] CHRISTINA MAILE: I, well, I got a husband in college.

[33:10] ETHAN MAILE: I think it was, hopefully it was a boyfriend first.

[33:12] CHRISTINA MAILE: He was a boyfriend for like three weeks. I know it's a minute. And.

[33:16] ETHAN MAILE: And you're still friends today, which is amazing.

[33:19] CHRISTINA MAILE: Deeply close. Every day, in fact, his. As you know, your sister, his daughter, and I share the same birthday.

[33:26] ETHAN MAILE: It's wonderful.

[33:26] CHRISTINA MAILE: For years and years.

[33:28] ETHAN MAILE: I remember.

[33:29] CHRISTINA MAILE: And then I have a second husband who doesn't want it. He won't tell me what his birthday is.

[33:33] ETHAN MAILE: I know. Well, it's custom. I do remember my first boyfriend, though. I was like, on purpose. I pledged a fraternity, so. Professional fraternity. A friend of mine who was already in it told me they didn't make you drink or anything like that. There was none of that stuff. But you had to do all this, you know, scavenger ones, and we had to volunteer. We were so nerdy. But I was just like, all right, you know, greek society. I was like, guaranteed I'm gonna meet a guy. You know, I was just like, it's greek society. We're gonna be pledging. Certainly. My first boyfriend was one of my pledge brothers. Others fell in love. Yeah. So that was, like, a weird way of using what you wouldn't think would facilitate a community that I would get to. And a couple of those guys I'm still friends with today because we're so not fraternity people, it turned out we got in. We're like, oh, yeah. Not for us.

[34:28] CHRISTINA MAILE: So, to just close up the conversation, we haven't talked about so many things. I know, but we have talked a little bit about how much we haven't talked about the thing that's actually essential to our lives at the moment. And I'm not sure whether you want to share that, but I wanted to tell you that.

[34:54] ETHAN MAILE: Oh. What?

[34:55] CHRISTINA MAILE: I'm sorry.

[34:56] ETHAN MAILE: It's all right. It's okay. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I know I've been a little ill, and one of the things about being ill is that you. This sense of family and community, it's makes you feel really lucky if you have it. So, one of the. I know what? You're both gonna end up crying at the end of this, but mine are happy tears in a way, because it's the community I've always felt is people more so than places there. Obviously, I'm tied to New York, but New York is so about the people that choose to live here. But having, you know, a serious illness or some serious thing happen has really brought out relationships more in color than they've ever been. And, you know, it's. It's actually been gift, in a way.

[35:53] CHRISTINA MAILE: I feel the same way. I think the idea that there's a certain time we have with each other.

[36:01] ETHAN MAILE: Yeah.

[36:03] CHRISTINA MAILE: So it's interesting. Our conversation has been about relationships and about each other, then about, like, things about artwork or jobs, but they really talked about.

[36:15] ETHAN MAILE: Because it's, you know, the. In the end, I mean, artwork is great and, you know, we love Shakespeare, et cetera. But the relationships, like, you know, I thought, you know, obviously you think about death and stuff, but, you know, it's weird. I never. Now I'm like, I have no. I don't care anymore about what happens afterwards or da da da. It's. The thing that I care about is missing people. And I, you know, my little rituals and my favorite movies or places, and it's those experiences. So it kind of just teaches you that it really is just about the moments you're living in. But I. So many people just, you know, and we've had our hardships through life, of course, but so many people don't have a sense of community or a feeling of connection. There are times where people like us who do have it feel like we don't anyway, because everyone's on this kind of unique journey. But sometimes it does take natural disasters or whatnot to really emphasize what is important to you, what really is. And what it turns out is that everything, it's like a Morfeti is great. I would live this life over and over again with mistakes because we managed to find a sense of family and community. And, you know, I've. You know, I have a lot of acquaintances as friends, and so do you, but we do each have, like, just a couple that are the family. Friends. Friends, family. And it's just, I've. You feel lucky to be a New Yorker? You know, I feel lucky to live amongst people that are different than me. You know, it's. You're always good. I mean, because everyone's different from me because. Pretty unique. But it's. It's just been a gift, you know, everything. So, you know, it's. I sometimes, you know, when you, like, when I'm lonely or when I lived in Los Angeles, when I get sad or it only lasts for, like, a couple minutes, and then, like, daddy, you know, the practicality of being sad is not beneficial. So lately, it's. I allow myself to be sad about something, and then I just remember everything that's so great in my life, you know? I mean, even just if you get sick, you know, living in a community like new York, they're the best doctors in the world living in my neighborhood, it turns out, like, my doctor lives in my neighborhood. So it's you know, I've kind of been spoiled with always having a sense of community. But being an artist and a child of artists, communing with one's own is also a gift. And sometimes those are the best moments, are the ones where I wake up early in the morning, and it's just me listening to the birds, just, you know, connecting with myself kind of thing. But, yeah, it's, it's, we're very fortunate, you know, and so that's any kind of charity I always contribute to where we have done. It's always about people who are unable to have a connection, you know, or can't leave their house, etc. Which we want to do. But very lucky.

[39:48] CHRISTINA MAILE: Yes, we are.

[39:50] ETHAN MAILE: And I love you, mom.

[39:53] CHRISTINA MAILE: You've been a gift.

[39:54] ETHAN MAILE: Thank you. Thanks.