Etta Robin and Kathleen Arnold-Chambers

00:02 My name is Kathleen arnold-chambers and I'm here today while I'm actually 74 years old and today is Thursday, March 12th. The year is 2022 location, Bakersfield, California, and I'm here with my lovely partner. My dear friend add a robin and we have been friends for a very long time. Okay. Well, I am at a robin and I am blessed with 81 years of Compass Road. And today is March 12th, 2020 and we are talking together at here in Bakersfield, California and my partner to not today is Kathleen arnold-chambers.

00:50 And we are long long long term friends. Okay. I have known you a long time. And actually I believe this is true when you first met me and I met you you don't even remember and I I brought it to your attention that I met you when you didn't remember but on that day, it was like 1982 maybe and you looked very seriously dressed you had a long skirt on and a formal suit and you smiled but I never would have dreamed the amazing woman who was inside that woman that I met but

01:34 More about that, but just I'm going to ask you what is my your favorite memory of me? Because I know you don't remember that first tell I don't remember that first time and I steady to I'd rather remember in 1987 when you came to I was working at the time for the County Mental Health Services and I was a supervisor of seriously mentally ill adults in a day treatment program Center and you came and Amber has a student intern for writing was like 3 months and I remember being so impressed with your sweet open Nature and your willingness to learn and your patience and my favorite memory of that hole. Was an experience we had was a high hot it was that time of holiday time, and we would have a Talon

02:34 Shell for the client and they would volunteer and at that event. We would invite family members or other people's come and I didn't remember. How do you brought your two young Sons? How old are they? I think they were like four and seven Samurai that and a little lunch boxes. I think. Yeah and they stack up right in the front row and number of a different talents where demonstrated but one of them was outstanding with a young woman probably in her twenties and she stood up and could not carry a tune a humongous volume to her voice saying Angel Baby on top of her 40th. I remember we what I watched your son's their mouths dropped open.

03:24 And then they turned cuz you were standing in the back next to me I think and they turned to find you and look at you what is happening and it was so funny. I remember being so impressed with your whole Persona and especially as a parent and to bring your children. It was so lovely specialized. I raised them to will I was always working from then on in mental health, but before that I always work with people and people with any a different challenges in their life, but that day taught me so much about you too. Cuz your sense of humor was amazing and I learned no matter what kind of the situation we had and day treatment was not always easy ride. Lots of challenges you were such a good role model for me and just if I could go back to that day and I don't remember a 1982. Very serious looking woman. Oh my gosh, there was so much inside of you. I was so

04:24 Happy to be working with you and day treatment and to learn that that woman who no longer wear that skirt. You no longer have that jacket. She had like pants on and a top it was colorful. She wear suspenders sometime and when I work with you and day treatment, I was very quiet and it was very reserved and always looking for to do the right thing and I had this one incident that reminds me most about who you are still to me. I had a client I was working with and he wanted to come home with me cuz I was in my 30s and I was not I didn't know how not to be polite. I said, well, I don't think that's a good idea here. I was married. I had children. I didn't know how to say anything with boundaries and I went to you and you looked at me in the eye and you said Kathleen you have got to put it on the table and you are the Third.

05:24 Artist and he is the client and edit. That was so freeing those words have guided me forever not to be afraid to say My Truth not just with mental health condition situation, but throughout my life. So I have always remembered that and when I did that he said, oh, okay, and he says locked on Magic is Magic the encouraging to me that day and I just want to say your encouragement was also just in me learning to have a voice and at that point it was a challenging time in my life with a man who I was married to write actually for 34 years, but I didn't really know how to speak and be assertive. So I'm just going to ask you. Yes, how in the world did you learn how to have such a magnificent voice because cuz I didn't always have it either. We'll see you then shocks me cuz you seem like the Braves.

06:24 Person and you say Kathleen speak up. Tell your tell your husband if you don't like something but he didn't want to upset him why you know, I was raised to be very polite I guess. So as was I I was up to be compliant and it go along with my parents and what they would impose on me and to be not to express my genuine feelings because it would cause Ruffles and so and then I was married when I was 19 years old and you were raised in a Jewish house yesterday and I married a rabbinic student and I did something similar. I didn't know how to use my voice and express myself. So for many years that we were married for 23 years and total and had two wonderful children and that Journey but all those years. I was unable to use my voice you ask me how I developed it and I thought you always had it how I didn't and when I would try to use

07:24 I got pushed back and because that wasn't who I was supposed to be and I always wanted to be who I was supposed to be instead of who I genuinely was an AM. And so I started going back to get my Master's at Cal State and as I started being exposed to different thinking ways of thinking I realized oh, I have a voice I can use it and that's actually what led to the end of my marriage because I'd really use my voice you use your voice and I maybe he wasn't happy with that voice. Well, I realized that I was needed to be in a different place. And if so that was not comfortable or easy for my family or for me, but I just knew that I had to be authentic to myself and that's how I found it. But I think when I first met you in 1982 you had said that was like right after your divorce. I had no clue about it that you're lying.

08:24 But I just remembered that as I struggled to my own marriage, you tried to guide me and support me as a friend than cuz we we work together, but then we started becoming friends. Yes later and colleagues because I went back and got my Master's. Yes, you know how I met you PS and with the therapist but oh my goodness. It was so new to me too. I think I've just I kept thinking I thought I was a surgeon know I wasn't and little by little as my voice came my marriage ended too cuz that amazing headed there after 34 years, but it started moving in New Directions just like yours our journey as we email as I reflect on Art are both of our unique Journeys in through life. There are a lot of similarities and when you talk about signing our voice we both needed to do that and found it and exercised it and and our careers and mental health

09:24 Therapist write like their dads family therapist and eventually having I ended up with both also having a private practice. I think you did you yeah. I did eventually I work for the high school. I work for a hospital in town and I had my little private practice too. So that way we were similar in our career Journey but also and in a way in our Jewish Journeys that's truly involved for you and you can I want you to share that but I it evolved for me to I found my Judaism was an anchor for me because we moved a lot is that when I was a child and by being affiliated with a congregation gave me and identities. It was solid I could take with me wherever I went and then marrying a rabbinic student. I did it all. I know it was. At one point. I just assumed you always knew everything about Judaism cuz

10:24 At the point when I first worked with you and day treatment. I was I have a mixed history while I married a man who is Christian, but I also raise my children in the church cuz at that point I raised myself in the church. My parents weren't religious at all or observant but it turned out they were both you is just that they were non-practicing but from you I started learning that you had me, you know your story you haven't always done it you did it yourself. You got yourself to synagogue. So I'm just thinking that when my marriage ended it was really at the point. I let my children wear by now raised and I decided I was going to return to my Heritage that I was learning about Judaism. So right you came into my b'nai Mitzvah, it's the kind of the announcement that you have become an adult that I am. I was like in my fifties and I entered it full to his life then right and you were there.

11:24 For supporting me and since that all that time you and I have continued to be connecting have friendship through our congregation and that's been very very gratifying for me. So and I don't know if I know this is kind of hard to talk about but it reminded me of our well, it goes into you suddenly discovering a new wonderful love of your life. Yes, and how we used to have lunch together and you can share with me all the wonderful things about yell. Yes, and I was so happy and excited for you. And then one day we had lunch and you start telling me something different. Well, what happened was I we met at a through a Jewish online service. He was living in Maryland built and I'm here in California Bakersfield and we started talking on the phone and then one time peaceful. Maybe I should come out there and and we should meet

12:24 And it was instant connection and loud love and so then I went back and visited him for a short time and then we decided we wanted to share a life. Now. This was I was something like 67 something like that and he was about three years older than I was. All right, he has to be about three and a half years older. And so at first he said we will move I move to California to know if you do that your children and grandchildren will feel hurt because I won't see you enough. So we discipline divided our life six months. We lived in Maryland in six months with of the California. Yes, and we had wonderful adventures we traveled and we just have wonderful time. But when you were in town, you would share all those wonderful adventures. I look for it at least once or twice a year at we get together for lunch with right grade and then around 20

13:24 13 it was he began to have noticeable signs of dementia and Alzheimer's and it was awful and I have a member the day at lunch were sitting there and they said they had a how's things with you and Bill and I remember you burst into tears and I have never seen you. Yes, it was really very painful, and I didn't want to acknowledge it here. But here is this man who is 6 ft tall and I'm you know a little over five feet. All right, and so he's big and what happened it's different for every person that developed dementia and Alzheimer's but for him, he began to be paranoid and angry and lie and distorting things and so he started getting angry with me in it and I started have my reaction was to physically get the old because I was so anxious and worried and wanted everything to be okay knew that wasn't him know. I have to build and so what happened was he finally said, you know, I don't want to be a burden to you. I want to go back.

14:24 Tamara Lynn, let my daughter's take care of me. I thought that was that took me three months to come to process. This is after we've been together for about six years or every member that at her so I ended up taking him back. I agreed to do that and flew back with him to Maryland and collected my belongings and talk to his family and came back and then he could not adapt to that initially. He was with it enough and he said not want to come back. I want to come back and I said, but you can't it won't work knew that. He had those episode is getting worse and I was like I needed to protect my health. And so I actually look nothing. So, all right, so then he says okay, but then I get a phone call from his daughter saying I just put I'm going to put down on a plane he's coming back. I said what I've written to you. I've explained to your whole family that that's not going to be effective. And so I came back home.

15:24 I called a mover and then to this all my own. I don't know. I didn't know what to do and I should come and give me an evaluation tomorrow instead because this person is going to be here on Saturday. And this was a Wednesday somehow. We're in the middle of that. You called me. And you said Kathleen. I need a place to stay for a few days. I'm afraid bills coming and I was so shocked. Yes, it had gone from him just being diagnosed. Do I suddenly you're afraid and you were packing up your house, which I can't even imagine everything. Everything was removed all we both share the ownership of the house. Yeah. And so I had everything put in storage and I came and stayed with you stayed with me and it was the greatest. It was about 3 days and you laughed and went down to your daughter's right? I felt like I got to know you in a whole different way. You worried about me going out and walking it 9 I'm going over a data and butt.

16:24 Just seemed like I got to know you that our friendship really deep in is it is moments if I know for you, yes, but I'm so glad you turned to me and I can't tell you how much it meant because later on he decided to come back and I had to stay at your house. You were sick with me in this even though he was the man you loved and I know he loves you. He just didn't know what he was writing. Yeah, so and I am so glad I could be there for you in those. Yes, like you had been for me but for all those years so that was a challenge and he's just now in a program of special living situation is protected cuz he has no memory at all back use in Maryland. So throw your year am on my own. Yeah your inspiration to me because ultimately when I was 67, yes, just like you I met a wonderful man. I had already been divorced, you know, like 10 years earlier and I met a wonderful man like you did yes and wrist.

17:24 Together we've been together almost 8 years now, but that's wonderful. You kept giving me hope cuz I never thought I'd ever want to meet someone after my marriage ended so that you are the challenges in the hope. We're glad so glad for you and Chuck that you have each other with anxiety. He's wonderful, but it's a gift of speaking of our guests. We have another journey together that we found together. Do you want to share or wait did I had breast cancer? We had heard breast cancer in 2001. I was diagnosed and I wound up having I had a mastectomy. I was I was so grateful. I found it. I caught it early and that was almost nineteen years ago. I am a survivor and I never dreamed that.

18:24 Friends the other woodwind a call me and what had happened to you and ride 2017. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and because of you I can't I give the gift of gifts. You've given me so many gifts West to refer me to The Physician and the surgeon in the Los Angeles area at Cedars-Sinai. Dr. Phillips or Phillip and I so I went to the two that a seizure Sinai for treatment and all the work in my mastectomy as well and we shared and I think together yes, and I just was so grateful to you for it for sharing that wonderful resource in the ice still use the moon. I'm okay right now and I hope to come this way and we cuz of our journey. We also it with a breast cancer one day. We were sitting at a women's gathering at our congregation Temple Beth-El and we were at a table and it turned out that all the women sitting at our table.

19:23 It has something either breast cancer or some other cancer and just by chance. We all said he understands and when we got done I said to you Kathleen we have to do something. There it is cuz there was one particular person that we went. She was very in the throes of love him. What was going on. I said we want to give her some support. What if we have a group of Jewish women with cancer history of cancer and we support each other and you agreed and we have since once a month we meet and we have lunch together and we talked and we share resources and we're supportive of love one another and then that's another gift that you've given me. I'm so well and together we vibin just glad in as both for both therapist, but we're both breast cancer survivors. So guess it's just that that's been a wonderful way to share your answer and I'm thinking I'm going to jump back for a second when you stayed with me those three days. I was so impressed with you cuz you all

20:23 With exercise every morning and I was kind of Hit and Miss speaking of like once every few weeks, but that memory kept me thinking I needed to so I wound up getting in a program. That's like Physical Therapy develop your core strengthen your core and I love it. And it suddenly you get another part of our journey you shared health for Life program with me with the physical therapy organization locally and it's wonderful. I've been participating in that now for several months. Thanks to you and it's augmented my skills with my exercise and I just thank you so much again for the sharing that wonderful resource you make everything more fun. When I ran into you there. You're always laughing and you still speak out but something's going on there that you're not feeling good about I love that and you know, I have just love these years with you. It's is it almost 40? I mean at my maths

21:23 I know my math isn't so crazy. They won't let her but if she ladies early eighties it is it's been a long wonderful journey and I have grown because of you in so many ways. I just honestly I'm so grateful for the things I've learned in that you're my role model. And when you were first diagnosed with cancer, I was I was concerned about you and you go. No I have I just have challenges and here's my list and this is what I'm doing and here's my challenges and I always want to remember that life's full of challenges. That's right. And you just navigate the way you can do that are least. I do. Yeah, I drove down there every time every week for my chemotherapy and drove home again. I know you do what you have to do what you have to do and I always remember so whoever I thought you were when I first met you man was I I just continue to be surprised and so happy to know you and never knew you'd have such an impact on my life.

22:23 All these years that's so that's true for me to is a so interesting. We don't know how things will evolve is that good. It is to have these wonderful surprise gifts off because of you and I oh I have because of you too.

22:47 Curious if he would tell each other when you've been most proud of the other, oh gosh.

22:57 What why don't you that when you described the incident with the client and a treatment? Yes, I was really having this was a long time ago, but I was so proud of your work pulling yourself together and holding your head up and and doing what was appropriate and write and write for you as well as the client. I was really proud that you took things your you know by that got the steering wheel in your hand and you went forward but I was because you were new at this in the area. So that was one of my my moments of feeling so proud of you you no one else when I love this go ahead Tony. We had an experience this last year. We have a holiday called Sukkot and we were at the temple the congregation and they were celebrating Sukkot with there's something called the lulav and you shake it and you're in a suit coat.

23:57 You know a little like a little hot hot don't see us and we for some I don't know how it happened that you and I did share that experience them of shaking the lulav together there and then the gentleman that took a picture of us he captured there's joy on both our faces and I was it makes me tune in to my feeling so proud of how you journeyed cuz here you were raised and Christianity and ensconce to knit and yet you found your way to the Judaism it was in your heart and you are hold on to it and you embrace it and it makes me feel very proud boy another gift. I'm just blown away by what you're saying is I never thought of myself that way and I can say

24:53 If I think of you and it just the moment that I feel most proud of you is just I love your it. I see you going to meetings and I see you in situations where my first thought is. Well, I'll pull back and see what happens and you go right into the middle of it and you speak your mind and you speak with Clarity and dignity and you're not afraid to show kindness to people also hear you fight for you know, people who need help and support but you're always yourself forever you are so I just sat and I just that's been such a wonderful role model for me. You have been and what you just said now and wow, I will always treasure that so thank you Santa gets who you are and I just admire and appreciate it very much. Thank you heather. Yes. Thank you five ever had an older sister.

25:50 I meant if she could have been like you but I am lucky I have you as a friend. So it's probably better we didn't swappa like sisters. We could just be dear friend that I feel like we have a sisterly relationship on some level. I know it's true that I can count on you I can you know, if I have something sad or difficult going on I can share it with you as well as all the good things. Wow, and I think you have done that with me too. I yeah, it's just we're just ourselves with each other as a thank you. Yeah, I think we we moved from a professional connection to a loving relationship that said that is true and I love this right now.

26:32 I'm curious about the work that you used to do. If you both wanted to talk a little bit more about that just independently or experiences that you've had. It sounds like mental health has been a very important thing for both of you try to restart and still is still is y'all go ahead I retired I well I'm a licensed marriage family therapist. I work with children and adults. I have a private practice now, but I spent 16 years working in the high school with students helping kids and families. I worked in the psychiatric hospital, but my private practice now is very small, but I have some clients some long-term and I just love I I love just being there for them, but it's I usually just work one day I have about maybe six clients still.

27:21 And I hope to always continue a little bit of it. I just the mental health field now.

27:29 It feels like it's more reliant on medications. But to me it's counseling is being there with the person and just helping them to find their way and giving them the support they need and maybe yeah just bringing Clarity their lives. So a day you're still in practice. Yes. I am and what I work for the count Kern County Mental Health for 27 years that I became of the therapists licensed marriage family therapist working with as I said, seriously mentally ill adults and then I moved over to the substance abuse side and I at the same time all those years. I was doing that work from 8 to 5. I would have a I have my private practice in the evening from maybe 6 to 8 and saw clients privately are adults and families and not as many children as you did but occasionally and a wide variety of circumstances and it was

28:29 Very gratifying balance me out because the seriously mentally ill adults that I work with could be very challenging and very either they're so therefore recovery from their situation was very different than somebody was independent not part of a without that kind of a diagnosis 210 marital problems our family issues or personal trauma officers wear different heavy duty work. Yes, so and then I retired and I think it was 2007. And as I as I told you about Bill so we were gone so we couldn't make it was hard to maintain my private practice, but I kept a couple of clients and I would talk to them on the phone once a month and then when I come back for my six months in Bakersfield, I would see them and today I have now one client that I've had for a very long time and I see

29:29 That person but I also feel that I use my skills as a mental health you are as the therapist in 2 areas as well. That was very breast cancer support group that you and I do and you have another and I have another one. I have been diagnosed with macular degeneration something like that. And I sell one day when I was seeing my retina specialist. I said, you know, I think we need to have a support group here. There are a lot of people that come in here with our spouses or their adult children and and it's a challenge for them and their family members and their significant others and he says, oh what a good idea. Let me discuss it with my partners and he said, okay we like that. So I've been doing that for a few years. I had to stop when I go into the chemotherapy. I stopped for a little while just barely is barely now. I'm back.

30:29 We do that once a month. Thank you. And it's very gratifying to do that. And I feel fortunate to be able to be continued using my skills and and also benefiting those who are challenged.

30:53 Take away if you could if there is one.

30:57 Never give up, LOL. I love that. I was just going to say there's always hope if you don't lose hope with your clients. There's always a way and that's why I like it just like friendships. There's changes there's evolution of of situations but and keep listening cuz he answered there's answers inside of each one and it's right with her clients are the big goal is to help them find themselves in the process and and it occurred to me your life is it inspires me? But some people think when something happens and it's overwhelming like, oh my life's over know and like you you always said life is full of challenges, right? You just find another path find another path. Yes.

31:47 Anything else you want to say?

31:49 I just so grateful for you in my life Kathleen and I need to add a I'd I can't even imagine I didn't realize how we were just so close all those years in our lives and right. I was just so natural. So I'm so glad you're here.

32:05 Thank you. Thank you.