Freeman Hrabowski and Eunice Cho

00:04 My name is Eunice Cho. I am 32 years. Old. Today is Friday, April 30th, 2021. I am in Laurel, Maryland. And my conversation partner is Doctor, Freeman hrabowski, and he is, I'm the president of UMPC my mentor and someone that I really respect.

00:23 I'm Freeman hrabowski. I am 70 years old and today is April 30th 2021. This is Owings. Mills, Maryland. And the name of my conversation partner is the fabulous. Eunice, Cho who is the UMBC alumna and I am president of that University.

00:42 Yeah, well first I just want to say thank you so much. Dr. Freeman for I'm agreeing to do this with me when we decided to do a mobile tour and Baltimore. I knew that I needed to reach out to you just because of the impact that you had on me and my siblings and my friends I'm going. I just wanted to share this memory that I have of you. I, you know, just probably the first one, I was standing outside of the library with my friends, like just kind of talking and chatting, and you just kind of swooped in out of nowhere and then just started talking to us. Yes, that's how we were doing. You asked us about her cells? You saw that I had on the history paper that I had just received back from one of my professors asked. If you could read it, read it there on the spot and then gave me feedback on it and actually really good feedback. And I I think that short interaction was such a huge impact on me and made me realize you know, I'm I know that you're such a busy person but you still wanted to take time out of your busy day. To really check in on us and get to know your students. And when I told my friend,

01:42 I was going to be doing this with you. We all agreed. You are the most charismatic person we have ever met. And so first and foremost, just thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. Thank you Unice you inspire me more than you know, all right. So my first question for you is as when did you decide to go into higher education, 13 years old. I was in a special math program at a university in my home state, Alabama. I was at Tuskegee that Summer and the kids were older that I and because I skipped a couple of grades and this professor comes in. He gives a math problem on the board. These are supposed to be high-achieving kids. Nobody could saw what he said when you, when you can solve the problem. Come and see me and all of them were very upset. They were very upset because they say that, if you are a good teacher, he would just tell us how to solve. And, and I got two years younger, and really goofy. And I'm saying what now he believes or not. We've got to do, is work on this, and we did for two days. And I said, what's the guy's name?

02:42 Hey Man. Nice vet, Dr. Somebody and all of a sudden I said, I want to see him one day. I want to be him. I want to be a doctor about ski and teaching math and he was a dean of the college and I want to do just what he did. So starting at 8:13. I began to think about myself or somebody would go to college one day, get the PHD eventually and then come back and Inspire kids to want to be their best. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 13 because I asked him, I said, they said he was dr. Seuss, the bell at the time and I said, well, he's not a physician and they said, no, he's a PhD. And I said, what's a PhD? And they said, it's the highest degree. You can get in an academic discipline and not. That's what I said. I'm going to do that every day from 8:13, until I complete my PhD. I would get up in the morning and I would say, good morning doctor about ski.

03:44 Wow, show me little Magner, and I would just say good morning. Doctor.

03:49 I was seeing it. I was seeing being in the college up, on those younger years. I really was the president at UMBC. I have been president. Now. I'm enduring my thirtieth year unit. That's incredible man. So how do you want your students to remember you? Because 30 years is a very, very long time. So, you know, out of all those thirty years. How would you want to be remembered about, what you said earlier? What I got from what you said because I was so touched by the story. You told about my coming up and reading a paper was that you all could tell you and the other suitors to tell, I care. I mean, all the things I just want people to know, I cared about my students. I'm excited about ideas, but most important I care about my students.

04:49 I want them to have that passion for Learning and the sense of self. If you give a young person that strong sense of self to believe in themselves that person can do anything. And that's, that's the essence of my career wanting to have people who say, yep. We can do this, we can do this and he cares about us. That's the best thing. I think any educated can never hear. Yeah. I think that's so incredible to hear that from you, especially because, you know, just knowing about the things that you've done and knowing what you've accomplished in life. I mean, I think the very famous story about you is that you actually marched with dr. King and that's that's what Michelle was telling me was. Like, that's not how you want to be remembered. You want to be remembered as a present of UMBC who cared about their students and that just really, I don't know that just touched my heart and it made me feel so proud to have graduated from UBC under President who just really, really cares. So I guess my next question to follow up is

05:49 What are you proud of? You know, I again more and more as I get older, as I meet people who never knew, dr. King. I'm always struck by their saying, wow, you're old enough to have known him when you were kidding. And I will say, yeah, I'm just at home, but I was 12 when I went to jail with, with the group that starts with an n and what I remember from that experience though, is that he was very proud of the kids and of our courage and that taught me to be proud of our students is a what? I'm most proud of us will be all the achievements of the students, whose rides. I've touched in one way or the other UMBC graduate and what they're doing that, what you doing right now and, and all the others who are making a mark on the world of the name of that right now of the person that comes to mind more than any other is Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett. She's the one who

06:49 Created the vaccine for covid-19. She is actually the first black woman in the world, ever lead a team to create a vaccine, and this is for covid-19 as she's on her way to be on the Falcon in Harvey, but she represents just all the students not just in science and medicine. But in the humanities and the Arts, the things you doing right now, the digital storytelling, all these things are having an impact on the world. And so by being proud of my students, what I'm saying is it is a Ripley that I gave whatever I can to people. I gave them that left for learning or at least let them know how much I care. Now they are caring about the work that they're doing and they pay it forward and that's what better Legacy, what greater achievement than helping someone to reach out to the next group of people.

07:39 And I really do think the work that you've done has put UMBC on the map cuz it's not a very big school. That's actually a pretty small school. But we do show up a lot in different spaces. Like I remember when I went in, we're so proud because our chess team had be like, all the Ivy League school. If, you know, her like our chess team is so good. And then, recently, our basketball team has just really been kind of, you know, creating upset. And even I think the most important thing though is just how diverse our school. That I think we're always number one in like how it like in diversity and University diversity. And I do think we have to give a lot of that credit to you. You know what, and I give it to all the people there working to recruit and support students. Let the new book that my colleagues and I wrote is entitled being powered University and in the subtitle is shared leadership, culture change and academic success. And the point we make at beginning of the book. I say it's not about me, it's about us that we have to teach people that leadership that about the one person over there.

08:39 Free all over the university. It's about a group of people who embrace the vision, right? And it makes such a difference by the way. I am so excited in the last week, UMBC beat Yale University to become a national champions in mock trial. And I, I just took my breath away with it was a tie and had to go back and count for more points from the earlier games. And all of a sudden they said in the national champion in mock trial, for the United States of America is UMBC. It took my breath away. I was just gasping. I get all my God. And the students from all kinds of backgrounds. Some first generation College, some kids first, in their families, to come to this country who just a range of kids of students Russian to Venezuela's all kinds of place. And what's amazing is, they were so humbled and excited and it made this point Eunice that you don't have to be rich or from the

09:39 Richard School to be the very best and that's that's what we want. The American democracy to say to children that you can come from any background and go to the top until I am just ecstatic right now about Mark trial. That's that's actually really really, really incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. Yeah and congratulations. Oh my goodness. You're just killing it. Just chilling out there. And so I did want to ask. I mean, I know you mentioned that since you were thirteen, you wanted to be talked to her boss key, but how has your life been different than what you'd imagined? It would be. Just go back to Childhood. We're all products of our childhood experiences. More than we realize, many of the decisions. We make the steps we take come because of a substance. We've developed over the years going back to Childhood. I had always thought I would be a little black kid in a black World completely off until I met dr. King. And that's literally I met

10:39 Him when I was twelve, and I listened to him as he spoke and I went to jail with him as well. I did the thirteen-year-old situation occurred that, that next year at the summer program. But the key is that, before he said it, I just assumed my world would be the same that I'd be with people like myself, which was wonderful, but we weren't allowed to be with other people to go into movies to do those days. We can go to the schools that were integrated. That were no integrated schools in Alabama at that time. And what he said was that we can have some say in who we became. He said tomorrow can be different from today and all of a sudden I began to believe the world doesn't have to be this way. And what he was saying was that even you as children can be empowered to help shape your own future and that that's that inspired me so much. That even though my parents are really afraid about allow me to go. It really did inspire me to understand that I could help.

11:39 Change the way people viewed, all these challenges we face in our society and that, that changed me. And so having that experience. It is true, did it was a frightening experience. That was a horrific week. We were treated like animals, but it taught us. We could be in power to change the world and I've always believed that not so much for myself. As much as saying, let me help students know they can do far more than they think they can do, you know, they can go much further than they could ever imagine. I could never have imagined being president of a university with students from 100 countries. Oh my God, I just never would have occurred to me or my parents that that could happen. So it really it's a very positive message for all of us that we can dream big and put in the effort and have that grip that we talked about UMBC and accomplish anything. Anything and that's that's the message. I want my students to have

12:36 You believe in them that you really can. You tell me about a difference in your life. That's a great question. You know, I will I will talk about a very moving moment from me. When my mother died years ago. I was already president of, um, BC. And I'll never forget that. I went back to Birmingham, and I'm coming in to church with family members, and my mother had been a teacher. So all of her students do that, just hundreds and hundreds of people. But there was a group of people who were of all Races which is very unusual in Birmingham because the all white black, whatever the group is going to be all that that group. And all of a sudden there were these whites there and people from other countries who was there.

13:33 And everybody will say, who are these people and I looked over and you know, in the mist of the tears as we were coming and I said, oh my God, those are my peeps. That's that's why you MBC people. Oh my God, they had flown down from Baltimore students and faculty. And staff has flown down from Baltimore to give me support. As I, as I said, goodbye to my Earthly Source my mother and it was so touching. I got out of the line. I went over there and I hug them all and they all just cried and every but the whole black shirt and never seen something like this before. You do an oh my God, I got back when we got back to UMBC, the students were to come over to the Commons at the time that it was the University Center of that. Was they like the Student Union before? We had the comments and they had this

14:23 8 ft sympathy card.

14:28 With thousands of names and little messages from students to me to say doctor Browski, You are not alone and I just stood there and cried. I just and every time I think about just how kind that was that they were so caring. I mean students and faculty because everybody thinks I mean my God, I could never lose my mother. You do it just happened. It's just you know, but I'll always take that with me. It's just a sign of the power of the human Spirit to connect with other people.

15:01 Oh, goodness. Yeah. Do you have like a favorite memory of your mother when she was teaching? Me, poetry all the time and our memory, and see what you ended up being my math, teacher to, but, but in the 8th grade, but what I will tell you is, we always throughout her life. We would recite poetry together. So if I said, oh Pastor dreams, she was safe. Or if dreams die, we would all turn it on the lines. And then she was always all my life. She had been testing my memory with poems and we just learn so many poems from so many authors and she was at just in the middle of it, whenever we where we were at whatever she would if she calls give me this. The first thing you can do is give me alarm to point. A my job was to give me the next line.

15:52 And we did that, we did that. We even did that during the period, when she was developing dementia. She wanted me to keep pushing her to remember, and she would make me push her to say, the next line. And if it was always, it was like the power portrait again to elevate us, right? And to have us connected to that Human Experience. Oh, no, my mother and portraits what I would say. Yeah. I did not know. That's really interesting. And you are such a powerful speaker. Yeah, and but then you have like this very technical math background and crazy to think that you have, like, you kind of have like, you know, your feet and both of these worlds. And I think it shows up and it shows up in your school too. Because, you know, it's a, there's a very strong Math and Science my presents at UMBC, but all of the other departments, I'm in the history Department, you know, that was what I study was incredible.

16:52 Incredible, you know, I like all of them had a story. I just remember, like, some of them would share to talk about their experiences and it was super powerful. And so, I think, even your experience your mother with your mother shows up in your, in your University as well. That's really cool edit. It, it it really does it. When we study literature Applause of your history. We come to appreciate. These are not extra areas. These are these are the disciplines that prepare us for life to know how to live our lives and to understand more about the Human Condition, you know, and that was my dad who was more of a quantitative tightening math, but he always responds animated by my mother's ability to use the humanities to connect to people and he loved the fact that that I was learning both both those and and finally, you don't know this, but my mother actually became a teacher, what was called the new math.

17:52 What she learned she would like to steady herself what she learned was at the better child can read and think the more easily one can teach that child to solve a word problem because we don't discuss word, problems and weather in chemistry and physics or engineering. We don't discuss those problems in numbers. We discuss those problems and words. And so if you want the child to be able to begin to solve that problem, they have to be able to read and understand the relationships among the words to get the point, you know, so she was trying to get everybody to understand these things are connected more than we think even math and music. She was always I was taking piano lessons because she made me take piano lessons. Now, I'm glad she did. And it took years before I fully appreciate it how we can see the map in the music and the pattern you see in the same way that I talk about now in in the universe in nature in patterns, and if you think about the great thinkers,

18:52 Whoever you talked about the car or other some other other centuries, they often work both for example, philosophers and mathematicians that these disciplines are more connected and that's what you'll be. She teaches people to look good, ways of connecting disciplines. Well, they teach history and technology, for example, or thinking about becoming somebody who helps with digital storytelling or thinking about all the Imaging and Digital Arts major. So many ways you connect disciplines and that's, that's a part of the lesson. For wife that I think we all should learn.

19:22 Yeah, I know. That's, that's incredible yet. I was a history nerd and my my sister and my brother, my brother did engineering and my sister did biology. So we kind of stopped and saw all of that. They're okay. So, what happened some of the happiest moments in your life and the status, you know, I, I will say that becoming president of UMBC was was just a huge moment for me. It was a time when people came from Birmingham and for my grad school at the University of Illinois, undergrad, enhance and everybody can't in my family members. They have the, my family members to stand and it was probably, I mean, they were thousands of people there and and hundreds and hundreds of family members, even know. But everybody, everybody wanted the kids to see the cousin who was becoming president of a university, write a butt, but it was the eye.

20:22 I was the first black president in the Baltimore region of Italy, what university and and people just didn't think it was possible and that's what they said. Wow. This is possible. You know, it's like Kamala Harris becoming Vice President of the United States to me, when you've not seen these things. You don't even think they are possible. And so it was, it was a very, very happy moment. But then the other one is just, every time, my students do great things. One of our students has a professor at Duke. Now, became the leading young investigator in Neuroscience in the world. He's created a pacemaker for the brain to address, depression and schizophrenia, you know, you do and I just I just I had tears just thinking about one of our students shaping the future of millions of people, you know, it's just so it's those moments with those, achievements of those students that can make such an obviously, probably the happiest days would be in my personal life when I first

21:22 Marilyn Monroe. My girlfriend told me she would marry me. And then we head outside. Of course on the personal level. Those two things are the most important, then we had our grandson EJ. Yeah, whatever. So yeah. So be happy and the professional. How did you meet your wife? Cuz I I I don't know anything about your wife, or I need to know that you had kids. Ya-ya-ya Jackie. And I met the first day of college in Hampton and we met three times that day by chance. And I was so impressed by her, but she was in we were in the math class together. This is the story XL often and I thought I was the smartest kid ever. I was a little younger than the rest of them and, you know, in high school you the best in the group. Would you go to college at all? And said, you see all these other people or why I was so much more and I ended up getting the professor gave out the scores of the in the first task. And I just knew I was going to have as a high school and I didn't and by the time they've got into the 6th or 7th name.

22:22 Call Manny the best I hadn't. I was just devastated. I was realizing know. I'm far from being the smartest kid in the world. I got a very I got the lowest state with only one person got on the 101 in the professor's. That, you can come get your paper and all of a sudden this girl gets out. You know, we would definitely boys and girls in college. This really cute girl gets up to go, get the 100, and she's so humble, and I'm so silly. I doubt I'm going to marry her one day and I hope last falls out laughing and guess what? I did literally four years later. I did, I did, I after two years of her, telling me we can only be friends. And my being angry, we can the best of friends and then we ended up going to Egypt together to study, not just not together, but we're open 3 to other for kids who went got to know, you better. And I finally proposed in my senior year and we got married. So and so we just said,

23:22 50th wedding anniversary. We really did talk to her boss key and that came true. You met your wife and said, I'm going to marry her. And that came true, has there been anything else that you said that has come true? Because now I'm starting to think maybe you can, maybe you can just speak out things and they become true. I will tell you. It's funny because I am I met her. I was younger than the other kids. I was 15 when I said that and actually proposed to at night and got married. Yeah. Yeah. Right after that. So I laugh about it as I was married just before I turn 24 on our way to grad school bit, but I'm outside. I really did say I'm going to be a dean of a college. And by the time I was 25, I was off on my first day in shipping at another college at 26.

24:22 So, I was very lucky, very lucky and I say that it was just, it was meant to be one that I was that good. I worked hard, but it was just meant to be, I think the universe unfolds as it should we do the best we can. I'm a man of great faith with many flaws. And I just, I just, I just pray and I just say, help me. And then I asked people all the time we in This Together, folks, you know, as president. I'm always saying, listen, I blew it or I need your help and when you tell people the truth, when they know you are sent it, and when you ask for help, most people are kind. And they will say, let me help you and that's how I've gotten this far.

25:05 I'm just a story that you shared about, you know, the car that people on the 8th for car that they made for you, to be acting like that and cry in front of that card you. And you've really shown that you're willing to be vulnerable. And I think they create trust in people, trust their stories and like, you know, their education and everything with you. And that's that's really powerful, super, super powerful. And so, I mean to get offered a job at 25 to become a Dean. I mean, you must have had to study in place so hard to get that. And so do you have like, like, like best or worst memories from your school year? Is just thinking about what you had to go through to get there. I went to Hampton on the grass. That's why me. And my professor writes, the students were black and I have made that decision. I was offered University of New England, but my parents had sent me to Massachusetts one summer when

26:05 14 and the kids were older, but I was into to see what it would be like to be in class with white kids because there were no, we were not allowed to be in class with other kids. And, and I was allowed to be in classes with all white. It was all right class in in math and chemistry literature, but nobody would speak to me. And even the teacher would not speak to me. When I was raised my hand with nobody else, has their heads up about solving a problem. Whatever she would look right through me in every class and every class they always did. And so my parents did not trust institutions broadly to send me away, especially because I was going to call at 2:15 because they didn't want me to feel so ordinary. When you're not, when you're not acknowledge my people, you can't help it if it all in there. So they were constantly, I learned so much I could definitely in Massachusetts, but it was, it was an awful experience in terms of not feeling that I'm matter at all. I mean, I was like, the Ralph Ellison Invisible Man, not only best used by the teacher but but I

27:05 Tell you, that story because when I, when I went to grad school, I went to the all-black Hampton. And then I went to grad school at the University was I was told I was 19 and went off and it got my Master's at 20 and 23 was converted 24. And I will tell you in that time though, that I was always the only black in the class almost always the only black in the class and in my math classes. Soon as the professor can even look right at me and it was always a he and he would say that, of course why he would say this is algebraic topology of this is numerical analysis and other work while you sitting here, you know, he was just it was this. And so after that happened the first time, the second class, the guy came in got looked right at me and it was obvious. He's about to say, do you know, you're in the wrong class? And I said, this is just a theory in that he looked at me and I knew where I was supposed to be here, you know, as ugly experience was unfortunately.

28:05 Study with me. No, I I would say I would ask them cuz I was up. I was, I've always been a stubborn kid. I'll go to anybody and say hi to go to the guy, that was always all white, guys don't know, women. They are going to Wonder Woman, faculty out of a hundred in that and I would I would go up and say, are you all setting for this next test and they were so no. We don't sell it again. Then I joined to the library and they would be in a group and they would try to turn their heads so that I wouldn't see, you know them. And so it was a bad feeling, it really was. But fortunately, that was always at least one teacher every year, who knew I, I was by myself and once the mall restock to Oka was a professor of statistics and we came out really wonderful about people Japanese. It was amazing and he loved me because I had this math background. I was not doing a heist and higher and he said, you want to be want to work with me, but you just listed, so he took me on his arm. So that was wonderful. Need to get multiple analysis.

29:05 EBay allow me to prove and he make me feel special. I never wanted to other teachers quite who were very special to me and and it just takes a few, you know, even if the environment is not as well,, If you can just find one or two people who say it's okay. It's okay, you're going to be okay. And the message I give students from that is no time to be better or cynical. But most important to remember. Don't let anyone else Define who you are. You define who you are. There's the message for me. And for all of my students and graduates, we Define who we are, what we can and cannot do. That's the message. I think. Sometimes, people need to just hear that young women, students, who in the title 9 situations. I love the fact that they call themselves survivors, rather than victims. We get through this. We get through this.

30:03 Students of all backgrounds. It's so important to do that.

30:10 Yeah, I know. That's that's really incredible. And thank you so much for sharing that with me and also just for kind of Paving the way for other students. You know, I mean, I think it's a lot easier to surround yourself with people that you know people that you feel comfortable with, but you found your people even in a challenging situation, you showed your resiliency and really open up the doors for other people. Cuz I think, you know, when you're just sharing that story about like family that you didn't even know coming up to see you, you inspired them. You showed them. Hey, like I kind of broke out of that. I'm opening up doors for people and and that is so inspiring super necessary, especially now cuz even though you're sharing this story and we feel like all that was a long time ago. So we're still dealing with with racism and just ignorance and a lot of hate in the world. Thank you so much for sharing that and I guess just the kind of like go where the beginning of everything. Do you have like an

31:10 Earliest, memory memory would be going to school at 4 to my mother school when she was a teacher and cheap cheap. I had done kindergarten before that and then she wanted me to start with really learning to read. Well, as I was reading. And so, I, I spent, I spent two years in the first grade when I was four. And again, when I was fine because they would, let me go further sell to keep me from being rude. I was always a rebellious kid and what she did with the teacher did was to give me two children who were having a really hard time with fundamental words, and she and she said you got to teach him these words. All right, and so she was able to keep me busy by teaching me to help other people.

31:59 And I loved it because when I could get a kid to know five words and I could see in the light in his eyes are her eyes of how good she fell. He felt when they could read those words. I could see why we did it. We did it, you know, and it was at that point that I love teaching. I love helping people grasp Concepts, right. And again, helping kids feel good because, you know, the kids feel good. If you can't read all that, you can't do basic stuff. You see it in their faces and at 5. I was taught that and it was the best blessing I can get in my life to realize, it's not about me. It's about what we do to help other people. That's the numbers.

32:38 So what I'm hearing you say is that you've been teaching since you're a four or five years old and he's been doing that till 7 and that's that's really incredible. Love me or I drove them crazy to understand why like I was just good kid. I was just really rebellious little nerdy back yet. All right, for me to do. I use really. It was believed me and years later when I was kind of hard on my son, my mother when she be busy, this was that, do you remember how you were? I mean, how can you treat them? Like that. Who are you?

33:17 So I'm not very pretty picture here. It was a challenging picture believe. So what is a memory? You never want to lose?

33:27 The unconditional love that human beings can have for each other, and the memory comes from 911, and I had already been present at 10 years back in 2001. And after that, horrible experience, many of our students at UMBC, who come from International backgrounds, either directly or their parents that are from the TV from the Middle East work, experiencing so much Prejudice and racism in the larger community that we that the students plan in Kansas City, that we want to plan. This vigil is Candlelight vigil to celebrate the diversity of humankind and the points we have in common. So we had every religion, every race people of all backgrounds with candles at night and if people speak about the human condition and it was the most moving moment of my life.

34:24 I'm not just sent you a piece of my life because it it was up there with being inspired by dr. King and because it I looked around at all these students and faculty and staff with students in the front. I mean, I mean literally thousands out and with all the candles and talking about, we wanted the people particular from certain countries to know we were with them. They were not alone. And that people who are nasty or ugly or Prejudice on the logic. Amanda did not represent America. And that UMBC was a place for humankind that that human beings matter. I will never forget the power of that moment. It is just texting to my brain in my heart.

35:11 That's a very powerful and vivid. Memory. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. And I do have to say, I mean, I've never met a mean person that you and BC and that's true. Yeah, I have never met anyone. That's mean to hear you say that really do. I was just talking to somebody about it. Like, you know, I I grew up in like a pretty not very, not a very diverse community and I was bullied a lot growing up just because of like how I look, but I remember, I didn't know that there are nice people and until I went to UMBC and and I I know that sounds so silly for me to say, but it was really what I went to that school that I started meeting all these people from different backgrounds. Like you were saying and everyone was just super, super kind. I have really never met anyone who is bad, or mean, or evil at UMBC and that's actually the truth.

36:11 Back that we appreciate the differences among people in the world and ways in which we have things in common, you know, 60% of students at UMBC have a parent from another country. Most people don't know that, you know, so we look like the plaza Nations at the UN, so you'll find every raise, if I ever got a country religion, and we come to appreciate that, and celebrate that and speak to each other. And to look at each other in their eyes. And that is what we want the world to be. No doubt. That's awesome for you. I guess just any funny stories are memories that you have that you might want to share. I will tell you one that that you really will appreciate. I'll never forget. I'll being in the office sitting in the president's Jazz and people came in and somebody called me mr. President and I turned around and look because I remember mr. President being my predecessor. It took me a long time to bleed.

37:11 I was the president people would say, present time. And I'm thinking that, who, where are we? Where's Michael hooker? That was my boss before. So it took me a long time and and and when little kids come on campus from the city, and somebody says, that's the president, look like it's coming on our campus and they said, that's the present. And the kids will look at me and say, president of what a surprise of your PC. And then I have to get out my driver's license. And my name car to prove to these kids is a little black boy that I'm the president of this place with people from all over the world. They don't want to believe it. Unless it's a true story. Really that's funny. Honestly, dr. Grabowski you walk with confidence. You have like you're like the Beyonce of UMBC like when you walk to remember, one time, I was in the library, I guess I just hung out there a lot of paper and you just like walked in and everyone just stopped and stared at you only happens in movies or I'm guessing to Beyonce. And so I was like they

38:11 About your nails. Like, he's definitely the Beyonce of UMBC agree that you are the most charismatic person we have ever seen and you just brought people to you. So you have made my day, you made my year. You should, you should just put underneath like, your at your, at your present signature, like the Beyonce of you, and be safe for the president's Council. I love it. Okay. So, the final question that I have for you is, if you could give one piece of advice to humanity, what would it be? Like, if it's a few pieces, what would you want Generations listening to this years from now, to know of life is

39:07 The relationships, we have will be the relationships. We have with other people to make a difference. I would want other generations to remember to believe in themselves and then believe in humanity, more than anything else.

39:24 Thank you for believing in me. Her bus can, thank you so much for trusting me with your story today. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.