Fritz Kling and Robin Sparkman

00:05 My name is Robin Sparkman. My age is 51 today's date is October 27th, 2020. I am in Fort Greene Brooklyn and my partner today is Fritz Lang and Fritz is my OSF chart.

00:25 My name is Fritz Kling. My age is 61 today's date is October 27th, 2020. I am in Richmond, Virginia. My partner today is Robin Sparkman. They are my OSS partner from theories reality and you don't let me talk to you and ask you why did you want to interview today?

01:01 I do a lot of weird in Wichita, Kansas. I've only been there 70 80 times cited just commute from Richmond in.

01:09 One small step is also being launched there and the head of the Community Foundation there told me hey there going to be in Richmond and they told one small step. You should reach out to threats. So I like being the go-to person for initiatives that are going to make my city better. So whenever I have opportunity to I try to support those as much as possible. So I was excited about that. I also like

01:40 Talking to people and kind of field testing my assumptions making sure there.

01:50 Balanced and consistent with broader reality Robin what made you want to participate in this interview?

02:01 One of the reasons why we came up with one small step is because of the Betrayal that came out of the 2016 presidential race. And I remember very vividly watching one of the debates during the primary one of the presidential debates and just feeling that I was not comfortable having my teenage daughter if she were then 12 and 14 in the room watching and that when I'm sore core standard if I say we could have had a lot of conversations throughout February and November of 16 just talking about whether storycorps could be useful in trying to get people to listen to each other in really is where I found swerve schoolmarmish, but you're taking down the level of Discord and anger and just trying to

03:01 People speak in a civilized way and understand each other. So that was a bit of theory. And now we're at this exciting moment where we can sort of see in reality whether there is any effect and so it's no fun for me to just talk to people who I know officially I'm assuming we have some things we disagree and and that we'll talk about it and it's nice to do it in front of us structured wet, so it's fun for me to go from Theory to reality.

03:35 This is like being present like you and seeing something born being birthed. Let me read your bio out loud and

03:54 Robin says I'm a 51 year old New Yorker and Mom of two teenage daughters of a former journalist who now runs a nonprofit. I consider myself a political Centrist. I'm pro-choice and believe that government has a role to play ameliorating are social light. I mean ills but I also believe in civility personal responsibility and accountability.

04:16 What in the bayou?

04:20 Would you like to know more?

04:23 I guess that that's a question for me. What would I like to know more about?

04:29 How did journalism lead to your nonprofit job?

04:36 Sure, haven't talked about that. So I worked as a journalist for more than 20 years and I have a master's in journalism. And I really loved it. I my most recent job. I was editor-in-chief of the American lawyer said working a lot of lawyers.

04:55 And one thing I realized is that the thing that they aren't the lawyers like to do the most was there pro bono work for nonprofits and so we wrote a lot about that and I spent a lot of time to worry about that and it really made me think about how I would really like to run a nonprofit that would be really fun exciting things to do and when my kids were old enough to brush their own teeth on assisted I started thinking about okay. I have a little bit of pain and mental space to think about what else I want to do.

05:33 And that's when I started talking to a lot of people about being in the nonprofit space and ultimately a recruiter referred me to storycorps recruiter. They created a position here. They recruited a yoga position was the first CEO and so I came here almost 7 years ago.

05:52 LOL, that was really fortunate that your interest in the field was happening culminating right at the time that they had an opening or create were able to create one. I was trying to log other nonprofits and other things I could have done. I'm on the board of a settlement house in East Harlem where we help underrepresented groups in that neighborhood and there a lot of other things I could have done without proper space. But honestly this was this was tremendous Good Fortune to come here. I feel very grateful to be here. So I have lived in Richmond for 38 years. Sweetheart and baking a family here. I travel a lot for my jobs and that has baby more flexible and interested in learning from different kinds of people. I'm saddened to see America, so

06:52 Fractured so I can have a bunch of things I could ask you about but I can't help but the the choice of the word fractured is too interesting to me tell me more about that if you will.

07:04 Yeah, I know your A-ha moment. I guess within 2016 my might have been sooner and occurred to me at some point. It was at least 10 15 years ago that Americans seem to be losing the ability to come alongside the administration didn't matter which Administration but one guy gets elected and someone else on the other side says we're going to make it our job that make them a one-term president and it hasn't always been that way used to be that Americans might not

07:40 Be the same party as the person in power, but they came behind that and supported the administration and now it seems like the sides never change one is just the position in the party in power and it has the opposition party. And that's it's a worse way to do life. I think I think it's the worst way to do a country that's really grieved me and it again I might have first thought of that 20 years ago. So I have observed it over administrative ministrations that included both sides and let me just ask you some more questions about that may show is is have you taken steps in your own life, you know, just to do it in your arms in your own small way. I don't know. I don't know anything more about you, you know your bio on your work in your community efforts, you know to deal with some of these issues.

08:40 Well, yeah, I I find it one of the best ways to avoid vilifying or objectifying someone is to get to know them and so I've been in dialogues. I'm a I'm a Christian active Christian pretty extensive ongoing dialogue with Muslims send that totally gave me a soft spot for those people and I am in a part of the country where race is still problematic and I've actively sought out interracial dialogue since I can be in the myself and I thought this was an opportunity to do that across.

09:22 Partisan lines I find the time.

09:25 Less and less

09:27 Comfortable with the tenor of the the current political dialogue and I don't like seeing myself get kind of wound up about that because then it's easy to again vilified people on the other side.

09:45 Can I ask you a personal question? How do you identify a politically until really this last president? And I have grown children out of the home, I guess either 32-29 20 30 29 30 32 and I think they left the

10:10 I don't know if that'll ever vote Republican. So it becomes hard to be that just because the Tanner so I'm I'm in play for sure. I'm around a lot of conservative people. Yeah. Yeah, so I find myself having to dial back what I might say, but I think

10:32 People who know me best probably have their suspicions my I've been as I said Republican messed my life and certainly grew up in that kind of environment. I think.

10:52 Probably here in Richmond conservatives are Republicans. Although Richmond has changed a lot blue. It used to be red and

11:08 But I have an awful lot of friends in church who are conservatives Republicans. Not nearly as many as there were four years ago.

11:19 So I'm kind of right in the middle of a swing.

11:23 Group, it's kind of funny. I got in touch with Stacy and one small step before that. I was put in touch with a New York Times Reporter who was reading an article on Southern conservative is influx.

11:45 An oddity for a curiosity for people kind of beard left. So that's been spent the interesting. I wouldn't have predicted it.

12:04 Well, I won't say bad behavior because that would probably make me disappear off the Spectrum completely because no sign has a corner on that but I would say just as important Behavior public Behavior discourse lack of Civility on the part of the president. It's just it's disgusting to me. I mean, I'm supposed to be raining this in more, but I'm pretty sure that

12:38 We shared some views on this one. Anyway, that that for me is really difficult. I I kind of believe in the position. I believe believe in the

12:52 The system and I believe their Noble and I believe

13:01 And so I hate to see them denigrated and graded and I just in terms of personal Behavior. That's what's

13:13 Swing me a lot and then I'm going to ask you some questions to but I've been to 40 countries around the world. And so people talk about American exceptionalism. And I don't buy that completely cuz I know that we have some things we haven't done well, but I do know that if you look at rule of law we do that well transparency we do that well and there isn't graft widespread graft and Corruption here. Like there are so many places in the world. So a lot of people I talk to hear in the USA is not that great America is pretty great. You know, you don't have to pick up you don't have to pay his zoning official. You don't have to pay your you know bribes for everybody like you do in so many places. Where is a lot of things really well and I'm proud of that and if president the president position and and our party system and all those things, but they're not currently having their best.

14:13 In my opinion, how about you if I if I were to

14:20 Turn the tables and ask you what's been your

14:25 Political trajectory in X terms of how you align and identify and it would you say you're pretty static now or you like probably a bunch of people in flux, I guess I would say it's it's pretty static.

14:47 I mean, I live in New York City New York City for 30 years and New York City is just heavily Democratic. You know, it's really almost how far left. Are you write an airplane Republicans honestly in my kind of world on my storycorps world, but in my server, but there is a minority.

15:18 And the kind of hide it and people I know who voted for Trump. They would actually never come out and eat dinner party and say they voted for Trump with my close Circle. They they would they would say, oh I wrote in somebody else. You know, that's my brother my brother they so I guess I'm on my husband is Jewish and so and promote New England Cliff Presbyterian family. And I think I've seen the world through his eyes which is and his family is is shaping a lot which is a feeling of even though they're affluent. There is always that feeling of giving back and that you your social policy of your political views are in part because you need to do not what is a surly in your interest, but what is in societies interested, so a lot of the Republicans I know there.

16:18 Decisions just this just my you don't have to go because it's all about taxes and in my situation, you know, it would be in my interest actually to vote Republican from a tax perspective because it would lower our taxes but my social views my husband's social bills are so that we believe in your lot of what the Democratic party is supporting that we would we've only been voting Republican perhaps voting Republican in uniform are at some point. I was a huge Bloomberg fan. I'm still a big big admirer.

17:01 We we work a bit with the with his plan to be as well. So but yeah, I know I mean it's it's the one of the interesting things is how is if you live in New York City if there's such a leftist orientation, you know in so many ways and it's like how much are you going to be part of that and how much you in a position to that? So I think to your point that you know, you have friends at church right that maybe you don't have certain conversations with them about certain things. You know, I may have a little bit of that to you know, just in terms of my my own Central beliefs keep me is unwilling to go that far left in in certain ways, you know what I think and we can talk about that, you know like

17:57 How much do you just keep the conversation civil and not go there right, you know when just just you're just aware of the minefields and you just don't discuss that right with your with your friends were you know that you're going to be where you're going to disagree or or do you try to find the Forum to have those conversations that your bio was that you describe yourself Centrist and knowing that you were in New York City NPR that makes you all the sudden you're a unicorn so I do need to ask more about that. And in what ways do you find yourself being a Centrist? Cuz the thing is he to me when I read that I thought Centrist sounds moderate and all that, but I believed to be a Centrist in New York. You're not moderate. You're pretty determined. Otherwise

18:57 You ain't to be Centrist.

19:08 Well, I mean, I guess it's a little bit based on your own and perspective. Right? So to your point of interest is a little bit in opposition to being very far left right professional left, you know, so, you know, I get a little messy, you know, what's after the black lives matter protest. I walked home from a doctor's appointment the next morning and I sought unbelievable amount of looting I was shocked at the Looting and that this small business owners that just the winter star stores broken in and it was it was

19:59 It was devastating you don't particularly after the pandemic. I've been in New York the whole time and and just all the people who couldn't open their stores who didn't have any revenue and then to see them dashed in I was so angry and I was so upset and and not to have that acknowledged that you were really weren't there really wasn't a place to talk about that, you know in light of the Demarcus and the activism. So I that's where I kind of consider myself a little bit of a Centrist in that maybe not the right label to put on it, but I do think that they're you're allowed to have. My clients are allowed to have that conversation as well.

20:40 That's that's really a good point. And I have the same experience in Richmond that you see whether it be a husband or peers and you feel yourself saying no, that's one of the places where I don't go that far.

21:04 Well, I'm Pro death penalty.

21:06 So I don't don't talk about that much but I am I believe that you know, I'm in this is that some people should die for some terrible things to do and I I think the system is crazy and very corrupt and extremely racist but sort of putting that aside from a more abstract perspectives. I am I believe in that and so that's just another example where you know, I don't consider myself falling into traditional tropes about what it means to be a Democrat for house in York City that I'm I'm taking a more moderate Viewpoint and I don't know why I like Glenbrook because I was so in a fiscally conservative but socially liberal and if he hadn't just could have been such a wooden personality and personally I actually would have been all all for him.

22:06 As a candidate

22:09 Why don't you tell me a little more about your work with the Muslims and the muscle groups? And also I've traveled extensively to I've lived abroad in college. And in other other times my life and really changed change my view of the world or mislaid and just tell me a little more about your travels and how you know, we just how do you fill out those shaped your view of the world?

22:42 Yeah, there's a religion professor at Harvard Diana Eck and she said if you know only know one religion, you don't know any and I think it's true also of ethnicities and of all kinds of

22:59 Profiles so as I traveled around the world, it's interesting my I run a foundation and so my job has been so direct money towards causes probably 70 countries been to 40 of them in.

23:19 It's funny cuz I've often thought the two to the best backgrounds for running a foundation or law which is my background and journalism. And the reason is cuz both both of them involve meeting lots of different people for different than you and asking questions to help you get to some kind of rooted truth not a subjective idea, but what's really going on here and I am charged with doing that cuz I give away my boss has money and it needs to be too substantial concrete objective things. And so I spent a lot of time on understanding different contexts contextualisation is it called? It's called just different cultures and why some places do one thing and another place to do other things and the things you assume that are actually driving.

24:12 That are

24:14 Find everything but they may not be spoken or just bought a culture in which all these different people swim in my job has been to figure out what's in that water until you do that. You can't really make if you can't really intervene in another country or culture effectively.

24:33 And then you have in different countries the ill effects of intervention it with things like colonialism post-colonialism and you see that with countries you also see it with

24:48 There are a lot of the same Dynamics with race struggles in the US. So that's just

24:55 Heightened my

25:00 Interest patience tolerance and curiosity with

25:06 Different people's conditions and different peoples cultures. So that makes me really interested also makes me eager to ask question. I find it all the time in the world people like being asked questions. They is honoring I think I think Robin dropped. Can you hold on a minute and we'll see if we can children up in a second.

25:53 Okay. So yeah, so now I know I heard you about the the different views from traveling and just the post-colonialism me to pack some stuff. Yeah, I would say that one thing that traveling and seeing other countries has done for me is

26:17 Made me realize the role that luck place in terms of your start in life and and how important it is to give people the opportunity and then you know, and then see what they can do with it. And you know, I'm a big fan of Head Start for example the summit house and they run five Head Start centers and it's just it's such a great you some money, you know, just to give these kids food and every day and a place to go and brakes for the parents so they can go to work and just to give them an opportunity to get a decent start in life. And then to see people what people do with it. I was in India last year trip by so glad I took

27:12 Is a 50th birthday present to myself that I went with a bunch of women for my college and I remember seeing women and sarees using jackhammers to repair the roads and just thinking about what an extraordinary opportunity it is to give you know, what at time has been the poorest country on the planet, you know, this this tremendous opportunity for them to earn a living. So it's all about giving people opportunity and also having a sense of belief in their ability to just if you give them the opportunity to earn a living that they will take advantage of it.

27:51 What did the travels you took on?

27:55 Make you question whether or shed light on regarding your own attitude in the US about politics or people.

28:07 Well, I mean, it just made me much more of a moderate because it just makes you makes me see everything in Shades of Grey and in terms of I don't want to talk what is real but we we spent time in Israel and it was just a really interesting you no experience just to see what that's like and how the culture shapes your your personality guitar to avoid it. And also geography geography. I was really struck by a small Israel was and how it affects your personality.

28:41 I just think this is feeling of what I would say is nothing makes me not to less smug about everything that I've accomplished in my life because I realize that I was so lucky to be born in the US to be able to I went to boarding school was the scholarship student when I entered high school and and I think that you know that I really wanted most formative experiences I've ever had and just just to get that kind of leg up and have people in your life who are helping you at that that early stage. I just think that it was I was so lucky and I feel like I reap the benefits of that, you know every day, of course, I should be getting back aboard by boarding school.

29:41 Tell me tell me for you how how at that age going into leaving whatever you do community you were in and going away. How did that change you change your views?

29:53 I don't know. They changed my views a lot. I it made me very very very independent. I guess it made me aware of my own.

30:07 Status or class if she will that so many people had I didn't know people could use a credit card that didn't have their name on it.

30:16 People reading their dad's credit card. I said you can't do that. That's his know. You can and stuff like that so that I continue through college and just from a very different background.

30:33 I think it may be it maybe yeah, and then I guess even then probably seeing all the privilege made me think a little more about poor people and people of other races, although I know they're certainly photos from

30:53 My time in boarding school that I wouldn't want surface broadly, you know where I did stupid dumb boy things. Yeah. It's a petri dish the Lord of the Flies.

31:12 So yeah that that the and then I traveled in Europe and then have traveled so extensively that

31:21 I think in some ways we had America.

31:27 Has so much dividing us because

31:32 We have maybe sometime in our hands. We're not engaged in wars on our own ground. What's poverty here is not poverty in the rest of the world and they're very real in justices, but

31:49 We do have a very good.

31:56 I agree with you that I think that sometimes the triviality has become these big issues and some of that is because it's a Maslow's hierarchy of needs that because we're all our other needs are taken care of right we can focus on some more of these trivialities if we were all worried about survival, right? We wouldn't have the time to waste it on the stuff that come to your mind that drive you crazy about Democrats and I could go first and tell you three to drive me crazy about Republicans. So I'm going to respond in kind do you want to go first? I want me to go first. One thing drives me crazy about Christian conservatives is they are they won't mention the word guns.

32:56 Drive me crazy pro-life all these things and they just salute the flag on guns guns have moved. The NRA has done a great job over the last.

33:13 Decade kind of twin guns with

33:18 Freedom and freedom with faith. And so I think a lot of Christians just complete those and it drives me crazy drives me crazy. I think it's

33:29 That's one thing. Another thing is it drove me crazy with President Trump have so many Christians say it's all worth it because Supreme Court said that since the very beginning and I've always thought but you guys are minimizing not doing justice to all the other things he can do wrong. That's one thing. It happens to affect our domestic situation. And those are important things, you know pro-life. I'm I'm pro-life it's not my overriding, but still there's so much else including treaties and agreements and all that that he can do that the Supreme Court won't touch I just seem so myopic and

34:23 I guess nothing is you here now, I'm hearing so many Christians say it's not really about his character. What matters is his policies and its policies policies actually have to leave our I think if you're a Conservative Republican, you would have to be pretty pleased with this President and I don't think enough people give him do if he would get out of his own way. He could talk about those things and make a really good case. I mean, I heard a great what was it about that?

35:01 But on the other hand, I think it's just sort of Rich for conservative Christians be same character doesn't matter sister matter with Bill Clinton have a monopoly on

35:16 Hypocritical Behavior, so I think there's all kinds of flip-flopping like that. I happen to believe that the Democrats.

35:26 Had a chance to rush through a judge. I think they might have done the same thing. I type. I believe it's wrong that the Republicans did it but it's all just things that I would volunteer to make sure I understand your gunpoint you're saying that the the equating guns with freedom that take it making it that that larger issue. That's that's what you're you're concerned. Yeah. Well, first of all, that's brilliant. I mean cuz if there's anything Americans are

35:57 We'll get up in arms. No, I don't mean military are that they'll get really heated about its infringement on their Liberty on their agency. That's the spirit of the age and it's really really troubling, you know that the state or any other person can't infringe upon my personal Liberty while I the social contract.

36:21 That I believe in requires a lot of our liberties to be sacrificed for a another good but yeah Liberty, but then I think they've even linked that Liberty with space. So Christians are saying I'm going to defend my face and my right to bear arms is very important things. Whereas I would I would buy for Cato's in a heartbeat Pee-wee.

36:57 Little League versus the pros faith is something I'll die for and policy about the right to bear arms move the speeding limit to 75 or 65. Am I going to die about that? No, I mean if you're really into Faith than I am then that is your identity. And that's the bottom line of the things you believe drive me crazy Church.

37:38 No, no, it doesn't know it doesn't end in frankly. I think if it did.

37:47 My church is a little diverse. It's got some.

37:50 Democrats and if it did, I don't think it would be pretty cuz I think you know, there's so many places around the world. I mean around the US that wear guns.

38:04 Like I go to Kansas a lot already hunt and text it. This is not an evil thing. But the NRA has made it so you have to accept assault rifles and hunting guns and got them all together and I think that's been genius engenius messaging and positioning and I just have to stand and watch and say off.

38:26 Or do I hate this even raises it and in our Circle, I think it's a disgrace on our on our nation. There are certain issues. And and that's one of the one of those there is no radiation allowed of intermediate measures. Are we

38:58 Let's play with police. So the whole defending the police and I'm with by numbness, you know, that bind quickly came out and said he doesn't support defending the police. I think my obvious lie, we all we need the police and we need to make sure the money that is spent on the police in this country is is well-used and that the the bad cops are held accountable really good piece of the New Yorker a few weeks ago on the New York police Union and just just there systemic issues of hiding the bad behavior from Cops to do bad things and just not holding them accountable, but I

39:58 That's one issue, but that's separate from Justice blanket defending the police that I don't support that.

40:04 Obamacare, so I am I am supportive of that and I do think with Democrats that they're just has to be great nations in which part of Obamacare are you supporting and know what works in a pro business environment? I think that I think the Democrats don't talk enough about business and and that the need to be mindful of policies that you don't help small businesses in particular run and that incentivizes people to hire workers. You know, I just think that Democrats I don't I don't I can think about it, but I haven't, you know, it's amazing to me why they aren't more pro-business because

41:04 Jobs can people salaries salaries let people help their families and raise the standard of living in this in this country and throughout is immigration, which is a really complicated issue, you know, obviously birth brought and I think what's interesting is that what I had Obama deported more people than I don't think Democrats have been for an honest about that that immigration has to be thought of his lot of things after you balance there in one has to be what's good for the economy. Overall. You're weird. We need immigrants to fill jobs. And where is it a strain on the The Social Network of our of our country?

41:50 That's helpful. I find it.

41:54 When we understand others nuances we are able to view them less of Monolithic and they fit less into the stereo, New York local.

42:11 And invited by the same token of a southern Conservative Christian. I don't handle snakes. I'm not related. But you know, I was stopped in this New York Times writer and she said her friends were asking her do they eat spaghetti and some of them are accurate and a nun from New Jersey originally, so I get a lot of that. Are there any questions you have I I mean, I know we're not supposed to get to Mars in politics and we can pull out of it maybe but any that you have a conservative of a Conservative Christian talk to me about Wells, conservatives is not right politically conservative Faith person who is certainly pretty moderate live are politically

43:10 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. I am.

43:16 I think

43:18 In my life, it doesn't show up a lot. And I know a lot of people who had abortions but I don't know who they are. Yeah, and and my life is still the same thing. So

43:39 For me, it means some.

43:44 The fact that I believe that this

43:48 A beating heart and

43:51 And that

43:56 The decision to

43:59 And the heartbeat is some.

44:08 Not something

44:11 That

44:15 Most of us in most situations should be able to make their situations where I think it should be

44:27 May be permissible. This is not a it's not something that's not true deeply I haven't talked to him a gration deeply. I haven't thought through the death penalty deeply although I'm against that but with abortion.

44:45 I think I'm

44:48 Pro-life in

44:51 Pretty much all the ways. I can be an anti-smoking. I'm anti-gun son and Time Force.

45:03 So yeah, that's about as peeps it goes. It's not a cardinal tenant for me.

45:08 But it said

45:10 Inform your political choices

45:16 Not nearly as much as it does my peers perform any of my peers. That would be the thing. I have to say. I respect that I was talking to one friend and I said, how can you use a dear friend? I said, how can you support the president when you see how he behaves and how he talks and how he treats everyone?

45:49 Sports life cuz I think America increasingly is a culture of death.

45:54 And just let me ask you is the thinking with pro-life it. If

46:02 You know, I'm a 20 year old girl gets pregnant that she should have the child and give it up for adoption. Is that is that is that the coroner I have to keep it that she'll get up for adoption. And actually that's a really big push in churches that I'm I know of now is adoption. So I mean, I think there's a moral High Ground And I think

46:30 Mother Teresa said we won't give up a baby to anyone who has taken any steps to prevent God from creating life.

46:41 That's that's a moral High ground and no one stood this year for that because there's one who use of contraception acceptances on the bad side of that one. I think.

46:59 A lot of us to have the opportunity or were raised to know how to avoid having babies that were not wanted it is it's easier.

47:14 To follow through on that if you had the contraceptives and if you were educated in certain ways and if you were

47:23 Raised to believe that you have a child and you need to support it and for a lot of money and time and love into it if that's the norm and there a lot of situations where that's not the case and it gets a lot muddy or in fuzzier there.

47:43 I think it's interesting to hear you say that something is you said you haven't thought to read that much.

47:51 Some of the other issues right if I still have it. I still have a belief on them and I think like with me more passionate about guns and all of us I think have our hierarchy.

48:15 It's things that we know the most about and feel the most strongly about for whatever reason and abortion with me is not one of them, but since I

48:27 Vote around I mean it comes up and it's part of

48:33 Elections in all that I'm going to oppose it, but at the same time I'm aware of the

48:43 Challenges

48:46 Make it so I'm not quite as settled. I'm having this conversation with me and I'll just a question. Is there anything you learned about me today to surprise you say you appreciate that you're continuing to discern on these issues and patronizing but I just think it's interesting to talk to somebody who is still in the context that you're in right that your push against grab some of the people around you and what they're saying to figure it out for yourself.

49:36 Thanks. Yeah, I I found it really interesting to understand your context of

49:44 Marrying into a different tradition and having your your ideas stressed by that and it's some

49:56 It's I think it's a nice thing to see your

50:00 Your belief settle into live life and stand the test. And that's what you're doing as a person with a family and a husband and cultures and traditions.

50:17 Appreciate

50:20 That and also your openness about

50:24 Not being like real professional liberal. Thank you for your time. And we really get to talk about it, but it's both interesting and our own careers how we have had the luxury of being able to throw following interesting to us. Right as aren't as intellectually. We become more open to things are more interesting by things that we haven't even stay in straight lines professionally write.

50:59 Set up a lot of the things that really consumed. My peers domestic issues. I am more interested about international issues and how many year old world the u.s. Place on that stage, and it's been interesting. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time.