Gail Storey and Mark Hinde

[00:03] GAIL STOREY: Years old. Today's date is November 23, 2020. I'm in Boulder, Colorado. The name of my conversation partner is Mark. And my relationship to Mark is that he is my one small step conversation partner.

[00:23] MARK HINDE: My name is mark Hinde I'm 66 years of age. Today's date is November 23, 2020. I am in Garden City, Kansas. Name of my partner is Gail. And the relationship is the one small step forward. She's my conversation partner.

[00:44] GAIL STOREY: Mark, why did you want to do this interview today?

[00:48] MARK HINDE: You know, with everything that's going on in this country between the election, the COVID 19, the things that have happened across the United States, the reporting as far as the riots and so on, I just kind of feel like I need to get some hope that. And I thought this would be a way to talk to somebody, that after going through the KLC thing the other night, this would be an avenue to talk to someone, maybe feel better about where we're going as a country. So really, that's what fueled it. So, Gail, why did you.

[01:35] GAIL STOREY: Right. Oh, you ask. You go ahead.

[01:38] MARK HINDE: Is that.

[01:40] SPEAKER C: Yes, Sorry. Go ahead.

[01:41] MARK HINDE: Why did you want to do this interview today?

[01:44] GAIL STOREY: I. For the. For the many of the same reasons that you did. So I'm really excited to hear your reasons because I agree with them. And also it's part of my own personal growth journey. One of the frontiers for me in my personal growth is to be less just to be discerning, but not judgmental of other people. And I'm in a process of realizing how much we are all one and how much we are all connected and how much empathy is called for with other people rather than being an isolated person. May I read your bio out loud, Mark?

[02:33] MARK HINDE: Sure.

[02:34] GAIL STOREY: Okay. I grew up in Cassaday, Kansas. I served six years in the United States Air Force. I have four children from a previous marriage, and my wife has three children from a previous marriage. We have 19 grandchildren and five great grandchildren. I do not want government in my daily life. Freedom is extremely important to me. So I'd like to ask you by way of getting. I would love to ask you in great detail about each one of these very interesting statements you've made. But first, if. Could you give me a quick idea of what your usual day is like from the time you get up in the morning? What time do you get up? And then what time do you go to bed? And what do you do in between?

[03:36] MARK HINDE: I get up about 6:30. Hey, get ready. Come into the office here. And I'm the president, CEO for Southwest Developmental Services. Incorporated, We're a community developmental disability organization for 18 counties in Kansas. We have an office here in Garden City, one in Great Bend, Kansas as well. So we serve individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. We don't provide the direct services but we do the work through the state of Kansas and then contract with affiliates to do the day to day work. So what I do when I come in here this morning we had a meeting at 8:15, we had another one at 9:30, I got another one at 1:30. Mondays are very busy doing that. But we work with those affiliates, we oversee what they do. So my day to day work here, that, that's really what it entails in and visiting with staff and seeing, helping them where they need help and trying to, trying to be a coach to help them when they need help. So that's pretty much what my day to day office. And then hey, I go home. My wife, my, we have a, our baby. She's a Rottweiler. She's not quite two years old. She's about 110 pounds. Wheat supper somewhere around 6:00. Go to bed. Hey, that varies. 10:30, 11:30 midnight. Sometimes it just depends. So sometimes it's a short night, sometimes it's, it's a little bit longer. But anyway that's pretty much the day to day stuff.

[05:12] GAIL STOREY: Great.

[05:16] MARK HINDE: Okay. Gail, can I read you read your bio?

[05:19] GAIL STOREY: Yes, please.

[05:21] MARK HINDE: Okay. My father was a violent alcoholic who abused my mother until she was able to move my two younger brothers and me when I was 10 to a housing project. Education was seen in my mother's family as a way out of poverty. So through work and scholarships I eventually earned three master's degrees, became a published author, married a hospice physician and now live a good life committed to personal growth and helping others in everyday ways. So Gail, what does your daily routine look like?

[05:57] GAIL STOREY: Like you, I get up at about 6:30, my husband and I get up, we have breakfast together. We were very interested in the movements of our inner life unconscious. So we spend a few minutes exchanging information about what we dreamed about, whatever we can remember for our dreams and we're interested in. We've done a little work with the dream psychotherapist and then we spend some time talking about the news after one of us reads from something like the usually the New York Times online and we discuss the big events of the day and then we take a quick look at the local news and then we. I usually leave to go for a hike in the foothills near where I live. A solitary hike. Although there are people around but I'm usually I like to hike by myself and not talk for anywhere from one to three hours and then I come home before lunch, do my work on emails. I usually have an inbox with a number of different things to be attended to. Have lunch. While I have lunch I read the New Yorker and after lunch I start to work on whatever my current project is. Typically over the last year it's been a lot of work on getting out the vote, things related to the election and also a university has acquired my literary papers as an author. So I've been pulling together installments of my literary, my manuscripts and correspondence with my publisher and agents, agent, etc. And sending, getting that sent off. So but I would say the biggest project I've been working on has been related to the election and also I. It just seems that every day people can use my help about various things. So that's what I do. And that we, I typically late afternoon, I do about an hour of yoga and then my husband and I meditate together again. We make dinner together, we have dinner and typically in the evening read or listen to music or some combination of both and go to bed about nine.

[08:36] MARK HINDE: Okay.

[08:41] GAIL STOREY: Mark, who has been the most influential person in your life and what did they teach you?

[08:48] MARK HINDE: You know, I'm going to this question, I'm going to say that it's actually two people, my mom, my mother and father. We grew up out in a farm the first eight years of my life, then moved into the small town of Cassidy. They taught me a lot of I think self worth, self accountability, responsibility. We had family that live right there in the small town as well. But a lot to do with family and friends and respecting and helping each other. I think that's it in a nutshell. I mean that in itself was a lot. I mean they taught me how to be self reliant as well, to not depend upon somebody else and hate to step up and do it. And of course you always need help sometime in life you do and you need to be able to ask for that when you do or hey, sometimes somebody sees it and ask if they can help you. So anyway, that, that I think between mom and my mom and my dad that's. And they're still alive. Dad's 90, mom's 87. I think they, they taught me all that in the small town I grew up in. Gail, who has been the most influential person in your life and what did they teach you?

[10:16] GAIL STOREY: Well, I'm already so struck that we both have so many things in common. And I have two people as well. I'll say first of all, my mother was very influential on me. She too taught me to be self reliant and independent. And she, I, she was 23 when she had me. And so she, and by nature she was a very shy, reserved, quiet, gentle person who had to grow into this, this role of raising three children under very adverse conditions. So I learned a lot from her. And over, I would say, currently I've been married now to my husband for 33 years. And I would say my husband Porter is the most influential person in my life. He taught me how to trust because I had some serious intimacy issues and trust issues from my father, although he and I had a marvelous reconciliation later in his life. But he, so it took me until I was 40, until I was able to sustain a relationship that was where I could trust somebody. And my husband taught me trust, he taught me love. He taught me how to be in a relationship that is mutually supportive of the other person at the same time while respecting same time as respecting their autonomy. And the other thing my husband Porter has taught me is he's from a very different family background from mine and he's been an outdoor adventurer his whole life, starting with Noel's Outdoor Leadership School when he was 16. And I grew up completely unathletic. And he taught me to love outdoor adventure to the extent when I had never hiked or camped before. We hiked the Pacific Crest Trail from the border of Mexico to the border of Canada. And before that he and I got on a 10. A couple of years before that got on a tandem bicycle invite from Houston, Texas, where we were living at the time, to Camden, Maine. Took us seven weeks of biking every day, solo supported. And then a couple of years later we biked on our tandem from Houston, Texas to San Diego over five weeks of biking every day and through a totally self supported, just four panniers on our bicycle. It was an adventure, let me tell you. I mean everything, all kinds of things happened, but it instilled in me a love of the outdoors and outdoor adventure that is with me still in my everyday life. And I also discovered how wonderful people in this country are. People of radically different persuasions are so such good people. I really believe in the basic goodness of people because of the people we met, in the kindness and generosity we experienced both on the Pacific Crest Trail and also we had done, had done parts of the Appalachian Trail as well and on our tandem bike ride. So could you briefly describe Mark in your own words, your personal political Values.

[14:03] MARK HINDE: Yeah, I'm going to have to. I, I'm probably a moderate conservative when, hey. And I, I hate putting people in boxes. I really do. I hate labeling because, because you can look at. I can. There are some things that would definitely be considered conservative that I believe. There are other things that I don't think are conservative at all. They, they go, they go the other way, more towards the center. And again, I hate the boxes, but I have a. I served six years United States Air Force. Not because of that, but I want to say I have a healthy paranoia towards government. What I consider, I don't. I have a distrust towards government. I always have had. I grew up in, I mean you, you. I grew up in the 60s when I really started to listen, watch the news. Vietnam, the riots of 1968, Martin Luther King assassination, Robert Kennedy, et cetera. So I'm not going to say I'm always on the Republican. I'm not going to say that I've never voted Democrat because I've done, I've done both. But my political values are more towards the conservative side. People need to be held accountable, need to be held responsible. They need, you know, and people need help at times. You know, we serve individuals with intellectual, developmental disabilities. They're very, very vulnerable. They're a very vulnerable population. They need help not just for a set period of time. The folks we serve need help 24 7. To what degree it depends on the individual. But there are individuals that are capable of doing things that, yeah, we need to help them. We need to get them up on their feet and then they need to be held accountable and responsible and become independent. And we need to be able to somehow in the programs that we do with that, teach them to do that or help them to do that in some manner. I don't, I hope that kind of explains where I'm coming from. Like I said, I grew up on a farm. You did things out there on your own. There was anybody to come out there and do it for you. So I really a self reliance independent. I just think that's where people want to be. I don't want government any more than they have to be for reasonable laws, reasonable regulations. And I know, hey, define reasonable for me. Well that depends on the individual, doesn't it? So anyway. But that's something that I've always, you know, I remember in the 60s this a little bit about political. It seemed to me in the, in the seventies we could compromise. We had these discussions and man, now we're, we're, we don't want to talk to each other. That's what we daily basis, at least at the federal level. Is that what, what really is happening? Gosh, I don't know. It seems that way, but. And then it permeates down to the population as well that we're not going to talk to the other side. That's ridiculous. You can't live like that because either one side or the other is going to win. And then what happens to the other side? We're Talking about a 5050 here in the United States of America. So with that, I'll shut up. Gail, could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[17:15] GAIL STOREY: Yes. And I like what you said about not wanting to put yourself in a box. I feel that I don't put myself in a box because I feel resonances with ideas from what you might call people who have different political views. But if I had to put myself, label myself, I would say I'm a liberal Democrat. I believe that everyone should pay their fair share of taxes so that everyone can have adequate health care, food, affordable housing, affordable education and fair wages. And I also feel very strongly, and my husband and I are very involved in personal responsibility for our, for developing, developing our own sustainable energy because we are extremely concerned with the effects of climate change that we're seeing. We were very affected by the wildfires in Colorado this year. There were many days we couldn't even go outside because wildfires from Colorado and even coming from California made the air unbreathable. So all of those factors figure into my personal political values. So I would love to know what when you say government and freedom, what do you mean by government? You talk about the US government or state government or. I totally get what you're saying about mistrusting government and I'd like to tease that out a little bit. And I'd also like to understand better what you mean by freedom.

[19:33] MARK HINDE: Freedom to me, one thing that can happen and you know you, when you look back in history at civilizations that have had freedom, have had some sort of democracy, it usually will erode slowly. It doesn't, as my son in law say, it'll be cat scratches. You'll die by a thousand cat scratches, not just one. So I truly, I strongly believe in the Constitution of the United States. And I hey, I would say in originalist, hey, I didn't even know that word until here recently when we went through the Amy Comey Barrett thing. But I literally believe that as well as laws that were passed. What was the intent of the law when it's passed. Don't try to bring it forward. And to today's, if we need to change something, change it. But freedom to me is the ability to do on a daily basis what I want to do. And again, keep in mind within the law, within the regulations, that we have to do what I want to do on a daily basis, not have to think about the government, not have to have somebody from. And it's at all levels. My highest distress goes towards the federal government. We have too large of a federal government, in my opinion right now. I believe more in states rights than I do the huge federal government. We need a federal government to protect this country. Military, we need that. Without that, I don't, you know, we're not going to have freedom. When you get into a bunch of the other things that go on, I think we can see an erosion when we have this. We have this. I'm a hunter, I'm a huge Second Amendment guy. I believe in it. Now I understand we've had problems, I know that. But that gun didn't do it. So I don't want to see an erosion of that and any other amendment. To me, one amendment of the Constitution is not any important, more important than the other. If it is, we need to do something about it and we've not done that for many, many years. The last amendment, I don't recall what year it was done, but it's been a long time. Did I get it?

[21:51] GAIL STOREY: Yeah. May I ask one question before it gets away from me? I'm interested. Did you vote for Trump in this 2020 election?

[22:01] MARK HINDE: Yes, I did.

[22:02] GAIL STOREY: Can you tell me a little bit more about why what you see is he's doing for the good of the country?

[22:09] MARK HINDE: You know, as I'll say this right up front, as an individual, I don't like to listen to him talk and I think he can. He's got a pretty big ego. But when I look at what his policies are doing and what he has done over the last four years, I like that. So I'm not going to say I agree with everything because there's nobody I'm going to agree with on that. But I just think his policies have been more in line with what I would like to see this country do and what the position I want is in versus the Biden and Harris ticket.

[22:41] GAIL STOREY: And one similar question. So do you feel that he. What do you think about his accusations of election for. Do you. Election fraud. Do you feel that Biden, Harris won the election and there should be a smoother transition than is currently taking place.

[23:00] MARK HINDE: You know, what do you know other than what you're being told on the media? And the media right now, I don't believe hardly anything they say. But to answer the question, I think we have illegitimate election right now. I don't, I believe there was fraud. To what degree I have no idea. And I'm not sure we're ever going to know. And that fraud can happen on both sides. It's not just one side. But no, I don't, I don't. I don't believe this was a legitimate election. And I think that's whether or not it is the perception that a lot of people have. And I say a lot. I don't know what. Last I read, half the Republicans believe this. I think it's a problem. We need to have it so that everybody believes we had a legitimate election and that my vote counted. You know, every individual feel that way? I think so, yeah. I've lost some trust there.

[24:02] SPEAKER C: This is just a suggestion here, but Gail, maybe you would ask this to Mark.

[24:10] GAIL STOREY: Ask. Oh, yes. Is there something about my beliefs that you don't agree with but still respect?

[24:26] MARK HINDE: You know, the. Yeah, there are. When you talk about health care, you talk about housing, you talk about jobs and wages and being, you know, having fair job, you know, fair wage, everyone have affordable health care, everyone being able to have food and all that. I agree with all that. What we may not. And I'm maybe digress a little bit from this. I don't know. But what I don't know is how do we pay for all of this? Because there is always, I mean, there's something there that is all, hey, at least in my house, I always have to figure out what I want or what we need. But then there's always the other side of it. How do we pay for it? And I'm not saying we can't do it. I'm just saying I don't know how we get there. So I respect all that. And I guess I'm not answering that question because I'm saying I believe that as well. I just don't know how we get there.

[25:19] GAIL STOREY: Do you believe that corporations, that there should be a more equitable distribution of wealth, not necessarily enabling people who don't want to work? I would never feel that way. But do you believe that some corporations, that there's an unequal distribution of wealth in this country because of the advantages some corporations have taken and that there is a level of greed that is not allowing for some people to have enough while some people have too much. You think that would be one. One way to pay for it?

[25:59] MARK HINDE: I think we have a huge difference in wealth now that we have never seen the likes of this before where we have folks that have billions of dollars and they use those resources for what they want to use those resources for which, which may benefit a one side, the other side or whatever. But how you. You know, I also believe in capitalism. I think that hey, if you have the. An entrepreneur that has an idea and then acts on it and then he gets investment goes out and does it. How you. I don't know what you do with it. I mean, I don't have an answer for you really. I don't know what we do with. Because I believe in that. On the other side we have such a disparaging or the distribution of wealth is incredibly. I mean it's almost like we have the elite and then we have. As peasants. I'm not saying peasant but, but you know that the difference is unimaginable to me with the kind of money they have. I don't know if we can tax them to that point or not. I don't know. But I don't know. It's a, it's a, it's a question I don't have an answer for. Is there anything. I'm gonna ask you this. Gail, we're. We can interrupt for a second, right? Just say we're open for any questions, right? Okay. Is there anything you admire about people on I hate this my side of the aisle.

[27:32] GAIL STOREY: Oh no, I don't mind you saying that at all, Mark. It's. Yes, I like you believe in fiscal responsibility. I think of the future generations and so I, but at this point I'm so confused about who is more fiscally responsible. And I feel that the level of, that the level of military spending is such a big and complex issue that I don't fully understand that. I don't see why people in our country are going hungry. And I grew up hungry. I did not. There were times I did not have enough to eat and my husband and I are involved in our community food share programs, etc. So why are we spent. I don't understand why so much money is being spent bombing other countries when people in our own country are suffering so much. But at the. So the Republicans have usually been more fiscally conservative. So that's, that's something I do. I respect that. I respect your idea, your how you put self reliance into action, how you were raised that way. And so I, and actually one of the Most influential members. One of the people who had the most influential, most influence in my life was an uncle, now deceased, who was a staunch Republican. And he was a surrogate father to me and played a very important loving role in my life. And so I respected his intelligence. He was a Milton Friedman economist. He had actually studied with Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago, went on to become an economist himself at the Federal Reserve. And I, so I respected his intelligence and his perspective of economics. And, and that I think that carries over to some of the Republicans I know. Do you ever, Mark, do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you, for example, by people from the other side of the aisle and how so?

[30:30] MARK HINDE: Yeah, you know, people I know personally know, I don't, because we can talk. And quite frankly, I used to have conversations with friends and family about politics and what's going on so on. And we could have those conversations and I still can. Although, hey, when you look out further than that and they try to, again, they try to label us. I mean, don't put a label on me because I don't have a label. I am who I am. And each individual question you might ask me about, you know, about the physical responsibility we have as a country, about the responsibility we have to individuals, hey, with intellectual developmental disabilities, about the responsibilities we have for individuals who don't have enough food on the table, those are not going to be a cut and dry answer. They're not going to line up with, you know, putting me in a box. So, yeah, I think sometimes just because of where I stand on some issues, then they try and put me in that box with all issues. And that's not, that's not the case. And again, I don't like the labels. I know they do that. I know we understand that, but that's not where I'm at.

[31:52] GAIL STOREY: And do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you, people from your own side of the island, how they communicate those beliefs to others?

[32:01] MARK HINDE: Yeah, I do. And sometimes we get, we get labeled. And then the responses that come out, well, like, you know, I said this earlier, President Trump, sometimes I just don't care to listen to him because I don't care to hear him going on and on. That, that has nothing to do with the policies. But sometimes when he talks, he talks and it, it gets in the media, they will try and spin things or hey, they say for what it is because sometimes, as anybody else does, he didn't exactly say the right thing. Some folks I know will do the same Type of thing of as far as putting someone in a box. Because hey, if you're a liberal Democrat, then they can say this about you. Well, that's not true. They don't know you. I mean, I don't know you until today at the first time I've seen you. And that's what to me this is about, is having this a personal relationship, being able to talk to somebody about it and not. Not being disrespectful because we can disagree. And yeah, I think sometimes people come across just I'm in this box and that's the way I'm going to talk to people or that's the way I'm going to believe. And I'm just. I'm not there. I don't like that. I'm gonna ask of you the same thing. Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you and how so?

[33:28] GAIL STOREY: Yes, I do. And I may be jumping to a different universe of discourse. I feel misunderstood it at a deeper level. I feel that the issues, the problems that we're facing now globally and as a country and in our communities can be solved if people, by caring people with critical thinking skills, if we can find a common way of discussing the issues. But where I run into trouble is people. I wouldn't say that they're uncaring, but they're coming from a different. It almost sometimes seems to me as if there are people on. As if we're on different planets where I my freedom comes from an inner freedom from something I would call self mastery that goes along with my self reliance. I am very interested not in judging or projecting onto other people conflicts from my mind. I operate from something I would call a discerning intelligence that comes from the heart mind. And I feel that my mental capacities. I have a very active mind, as I could tell you do too. My mind and my egoic self are in the service of my heart mind. And I have tried to talk with people in my own, you know, on both sides of the aisle and they don't know what I'm talking about. And I realize some of us have had the opportunity, or maybe we're just born that way. We have had the opportunity to have exposure or an inclination to live from the heart mind. And some people just seem to me to live only from the smaller ego itself without any sense of the larger whole of being of which I feel very much apart. And I feel troubled by people with the same beliefs from my own side of the aisle when I try to. So I would say my Deepest value is kindness. Kindness is my operative principle, no matter what. And my. I have. I'm very aligned with. I belong to. I guess you'd call it a spiritual community. But it's a very broad. It's not narrow. Narrow. It's not dogmatic in any way. And I once said to one of them, well, we should not close our hearts, even to Trump. And this guy got. So he ruffled his feathers. He said, no, we don't want to enable him. But that's a whole. I don't even like. To me, it's like Trump is us. That is a part of ourselves. And I feel one of the big problems that we're facing is people on both sides are projecting our part, a part of ourselves under Trump, either our shadow or our. Her. Our wounding, our hurt. And he is able to. He is a person who is able to hold that and carry that. And to my mind, very unfortunate effects. So I feel there's. There are gradations of where we're coming from. And I. My ultimate value is kindness, heart, mind, and living from the heart with the egoic self and my mental capacities in the service of those.

[38:00] SPEAKER C: Just have a couple of minutes left, so I have an option or two in there to close out the conversation.

[38:07] GAIL STOREY: Okay. Mark, was I who you expected me to be?

[38:12] MARK HINDE: Yeah, I think, for the most part, you are Gail And, hey, I appreciate and respect who you are and where you're coming from. We all have different journeys in life that have led us to the point we're at today, right now, and experiences and. Yeah, I think. I think you are.

[38:30] GAIL STOREY: And is there anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

[38:37] MARK HINDE: You know, I was very glad. I don't know if this is a surprise or not. I suppose it was a little bit, but I was very glad to hear you talk the way you just did about. About President Trump. I mean, he's a human being. You know, we all are, and we all have our faults, and we all have good qualities, too. So I was glad to hear that, because I'm not exactly hearing that from some people. You know, it's just. He's a terrible person, period. No, I don't. I don't. Believe that. I don't believe that about anybody in the beginning. Some people be wrong sometimes, but. But hopefully they don't. Gail, was. Was I who you expected me to be today?

[39:28] GAIL STOREY: You know, I didn't have any expectations. Part of what I'm doing with my personal growth, what's happening is I am letting go. I'm I'm living beautifully in much more of, coming from much more of a don't know, don't know mind. So I had no idea. Every time I, I bet I read your short biography 20 times and I thought I really don't, can't. I mean, I got a great sense of you, but I didn't really, I was happy that I wasn't ready to jump to assumptions or judgments about who you were. And as far as anything that I learned about you today, that surprised me. Yes, I am flabbergasted. I mean, and I, but still I respect you that and your views that you believe that the election is illegitimate and a fraud. And I didn't hear evidence there. So far everybody on both sides is saying that they don't see the evidence. And you seem to me like a very pragmatic, very grounded, very intelligent man with extraordinary critical thinking skills. So I was surprised to hear that and to know that about you, to get such a, an authentic sense from you of those qualities and that you, that the evidence doesn't, that there hasn't been evidence and you don't, that doesn't disturb you. I hope that doesn't sound too critical. I don't mean it that way. I'm just saying I'm like, wow, Mark.

[41:30] SPEAKER C: If you want to respond to that, that's fine.

[41:33] MARK HINDE: You know, again, I don't at this point in time, hey, I've been, been on this planet. I've made 66 trips around the sun. I used to think the news was something that, that I get, hey, Walter Cronkite telling me how many Americans died in Vietnam this week, etc, etc. He wouldn't, hey, for the most part I don't believe going back that he put his opinion into everything he talked about. I think he gave us the news. Is there, is there evidence? I don't know, there's, there's certainly some stuff that, that looks like it. It doesn't look right. How are you going to be able to prove anything when we had so many mail in ballots, when you had people that were not allowed to be close to the ballot? See, again, I get real skeptical if you really want me to observe this and I'm speaking from somebody, I don't care if it's Democrat or Republican observing the vote count, but you make me stand 20 or 30ft away or you put cardboard up over the windows, I got a problem with that. And I'm, all of a sudden, I'm more than skeptical. I'm not believing you. So that's where I'm coming from on Sunday stuff. And that stuff, you know, that stuff did happen. I mean, we saw video, we saw pictures of that happening. So. And then when I've seen that, the. And I haven't read anything recently, but the amount, the percentage of mail in ballots that were. I'm not gonna have the right term here. That were not counted. When you go back to like 2016, and there were far fewer mail in ballots compared to the percentage that are not counted this time, and we have far more mail in ballots. The percentages that are not counted went down dramatically. Why? That's my critical thinking there. Why? Well, hey, I don't know.

[43:32] SPEAKER C: Well, I've had participants share resources with one another after these conversations. And if you two are interested in doing that, that's something that folks have found interesting to do in the past. But are there any last thoughts before we end the recording?

[43:51] GAIL STOREY: I just want to say how much I have thoroughly enjoyed talking with you, Mark. This is really been warm and fun and interesting. And I just. A couple of nights ago, I saw a movie that can be streamed that speaks very much to the kind of work that you do, which I really loved hearing about your work. And there's a movie called the Antidote. The Antidote. And it can be streamed and it's virtual. And I think you would really connect with it and people on both side of the aisle, I think because it just speaks to being helpful and caring in very, very intelligent ways and in community based. In community based ways all over the country. Anchorage, Alaska and a number of other cities.

[44:51] MARK HINDE: I wrote that down so I can watch that. And I've enjoyed visiting with you, Gail. There's. You sound like a highly intelligent individual and all the stuff you and your husband do. I just think that having these conversations. I didn't say this earlier, but I just came to mind. One thing that sides tend to do right now is demonize each other. And that's. That's wrong. That is wrong. Okay. We all have qualities, good qualities about us. We all, again, we all have things that, that we don't do so well. And. But we have a lot in common. Humanity has a lot in common. And we need to find those common grounds and come to them so that we can move forward. So we don't. I mean, right now I'm greatly concerned where we're at as a country and the population and what they feel. I mean, hey, I heard that word civil war more than once, you know, and I don't want to go there. I don't want us to go there. I have too many grandchildren and great grandchildren. I want them to have freedom.