Rita Casteline and Michele R. Wells

Recorded January 22, 2006 Archived January 22, 2006 01:15:06
0:00 / 0:00
Id: GCT002473

Description

Rita (85) was interviewed by her granddaughter Michele (29) about her childhood in New Jersey, her marriage, and her advice for her grandchildren.

Subject Log / Time Code

Ringing doorbells of neighbors as pranks
Being nicknamed “little bit” by the neighborhood ice cream man. He would save the chocolate tub for her.

Participants

  • Rita Casteline
  • Michele R. Wells

Transcript

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00:01 Hi, my name is Michelle Wells. I'm 29 years old. Today is January 22nd 2006 and we are at Grand Central Terminal and I am Rita casteline granddaughter.

00:16 Hi, my name is Rita casteline. I'm on 85 years old at today is the 22nd of January and 2006 or at Grand Central Terminal and I'm speaking to my granddaughter, Michelle.

00:33 Okay, please start by telling me your birth date our relationship and where you were born. Hi. My my name is Rita casteline. I was born May 4th 1920 and I'm speaking to my oldest granddaughter Michelle Wells.

00:57 Where and when were you born? I was born in Paterson on May 4th 1920, Paterson, New Jersey, Paterson, New Jersey.

01:06 Where did you grow up? I grew up a well we moved from I was born on Walnut Street in Paterson. And when I was about 4, we moved to Patterson Avenue and New Jersey and in Paterson, and that was only until I was seven and then we moved up to Totowa Borough where I live the rest of my life before I was married. What was it like growing up in Paterson? And can you describe it then as opposed to today?

01:36 Well Patterson had that time 85 years ago was kind of quiet. The weren't many cars are on the street and we were able to play in the street Hopscotch jump rope. We didn't have to worry about cars coming and going and

01:57 Then when we moved too well to the burrow if it was even more quiet than it was in Paterson.

02:04 What is your ethnic background? I'm of Italian descent both my parents both parents my mother my father.

02:13 Where is your mother's family from from Italy and they came here to Patterson one?

02:21 Jeru, I guess and their early teens to know where in Italy they were born and Elsa Dana. I think it's a province of Abruzzi.

02:33 Both of them both of them and where is your father's family from same town and Italy and they stayed in Italy. They never came to the United States. Did you ever meet them know I never met them. Did you correspond with them know but I I correspond it for my father. I wrote to them from my father because when I was about seven he lost his eyesight and he couldn't read he couldn't read or write. How did he lose his eyesight at that time 87 years ago. They really didn't know they called it a cold to the optical nerve of his eye and he gradually lost sight in both eyes. Did it have anything to do with his job nothing to do with the job but that he was a stonecutter and they thought maybe the the the dust of the way of cutting the stones might have done it for the even removed his tonsils thinking it was that they even pulled a few of his teeth. They thought that was that but nothing helped.

03:30 What were your parents like from the earliest memory to they were absolutely wonderful from the time. I can remember when I was very very young until the day that they passed away. They were wonderful wonderful parents.

03:45 Can you describe stories about them what they were like, well, my father started out us a stonecutter. In fact the man who own the business wanted to sell it to my my father, but the money that they had saved to put her that all went. There was no medical insurance. So every hospital he went to every Doctor Who went to he had to pay for it and they lost the money. So when my dad lost his eyesight, my mother had to go to work. She was she works in the silk Mill. She was a Winder.

04:18 So he took care of the house and my mother went to work. So is that odd for you? When all your other peers probably had mothers who stayed at home and fathers who went to work at the deadliest didn't because I never gave it a thought. He was a good father. He was he was a good Homemaker. He learns how to cook even though he couldn't see he made homemade pasta. He was he was just a good person and I did just didn't bother me. What was your house? Like, well we lived in just four rooms be rented for rose on Patterson Avenue in Paterson. And when we moved to to Totowa it was the same thing. We rented a two-family house and that was four rooms. Did you like it? Yes, I was very happy. I was happier and Patterson cuz when I first went to Totowa I was very unhappy because I left all my friends. I was only seven at the time.

05:13 And you did what was your relationship with your sister? Like in the beginning? They tell me I adored her. They told me that there is nine and a half years between us and I used to call her honey. I worship the ground she walked on until I got a little older and decide and found out that she really try to

05:33 Be my mother instead of a sister.

05:36 What did you look like? You're growing up? What did I look like a little girl. I was a little girl. My my parents kept me that they couldn't afford much but whatever I had was clean and and Preston and there was a war everyday dresses. I mean, there were no such thing as pants or shorts or anything. We wear dresses all the time 10 fours, and I was always try to dress neatly and and then eventually my mother started to make curls on me and that's when they were short. How did she do that around her finger? She said very clearly hair around her finger every girl and then headed you get the curls to stay. She just they just stayed.

06:23 Go to work.

06:26 What you did that before she went to work?

06:29 How would you describe yourself as a child?

06:33 Truthfully without being vain. I think I was a good girl. I've never gave them any problems. So I did what I was told and I was just a good girl. So

06:44 You were good and and you adored your sister. But what was your relationship like as you got older the two of you? Well, I began to realize that she was very well. She she wanted to pick my clothes and something I didn't like my mother was ready to go along with me. She would talk my mother into getting something else for and I just felt that I had no choice and my mother threw up and she was older and knew more she just to go along with her. In fact, when I was going to graduate Grandpa school. I wanted my haircut. I was the only girl in the eighth grade with curls down her back and she didn't want me to have them cut and I cried and cried as I wouldn't go to my graduation. If I didn't get my curls cut so then my mother said you better take her to have her hair cut. So instead of taking me to a a beauty salon she took me to a man's barber and he just gave me like sort of a boyish haircut very happy with that. Yes. I was happy as long as they can have a curls.

07:41 And then what was your relationship like when she got married?

07:46 It was strange. It was strange. I sangria still living at home was out. Yes when she got married. Yes. I was only thirteen when she got married 13 and I was 16 when she got married and it was strange because so she still in I'll try to boss me. I used to babysit for her to keep her calling her to think but it was a strange relationship.

08:09 When you were a child, what is the worst thing you did the worst thing I ever did as a child. Well, I was the youngest of my cousins that lived around the corner and I used to like to ring doorbell. So I used to go with them and we used to pick on a woman that you've just to chase us and that was the one we like to ring best because she's faced us. That was the worst thing. What about with school. Did you anything bad?

08:38 Well in the beginning when I was living on Patterson Avenue, I was very smart. I got great marks and my teacher at the end of the term wanted me to skip a grade, but I heard that she was going to take the next like we went to a + 2B and they wanted to skip me from two way to 3A, but I heard she was going to teach to be so I wanted to stay with her and I cried so they my parents accepted that but then in the meantime, we found the house up until when I moved anyways, I did never anyway, and when I went to Total I didn't like school because I left all my friends and I just I got by I didn't fail I just got by I didn't get the A's we didn't have a baby at that time. We had 9590 and I didn't get the 90 and 95 Bobby get maybe seventy-five plus. My heart wasn't in it. What was a typical day at school like when she moved

09:35 Once you move to Totowa that averaged a an average day weekly remember what your school day consisted of we traveled we went from class to class and I had a lot of friends and we come home. We did our homework that was sit. There was no TV, but we don't even have radio at that time and what to do for fun. Besides ringing doorbells know what when I moved to the bird that all stopped that's all that went outside. We we play jump roper Jack serve a rub hopscotch.

10:16 That was it and I read a lot. I was a big reader. What did you read while my mother started me off on the Honey Bunch books, which I still have. What are they? It's so if it's the volume of a honey bunch of Honey Bunches first Garden, honey bunches first visit to Grandma. I think I still have them.

10:37 Okay. What about a nickname? Did you have one? Hell yeah, I got it. I had one from a big black man behind live. Patterson Avenue and we were two doors down from the main road and on the corner was an ice cream store and ice cream be just to come and big I don't know whether they were send a 10 containers at the Ice Cream came in and I was the smallest of the bunch all the time and we used to swarm when we used to hear his truck coming cuz he used to take out the empty once and bring in the new ones but there was always a lot of ice cream in the empty ones and the kids would fight over the vanillin that and they strawberry there's only three flavors at the time and I like the chocolate but I was always the shy when am I always so he said to me what kind do you like? And I said, you act like you said you stay here tomorrow when I come the next time you stay here, and he called me little bit cuz I was a small.

11:37 And that was my nickname little bit until he used to bring out the vanilla in the strawberry first for all the other kids to dig into and then he bring me the choco. What is your best memory of childhood?

11:55 Of course, we didn't have what the kids today having when I was real small. We used to sit around a pot belly stove and my father would tell us stories about Italy and his childhood and then like I say I started to read and and and I used to love to to go to my cousin's house on Sundays. We walk there and cousins would look good together in the living room to play games and that's what we did for you do for fun. What is your worst memory of childhood?

12:30 I can't think of anything I have anything to

12:36 When I move to Total I thought that was very traumatic for me I cried for days.

12:42 Totowa is really close to Paterson. So at that time was it too hard too. I mean I mean, but I mean I couldn't see my friends every night like I did.

12:54 Who are your best friends? Well, when I moved to Totowa there was a girl next door. Her name was Antoinette. She and I became good friends, but in high school, I had a lot of I made a lot of friends had a lot of them.

13:10 What were they like major is doing High School?

13:14 Well, we just sometimes if they had carnivals written in the summer we get together, you know, otherwise we would meet and go out for ice cream or something about we never did anything. I mean, what the fuck? Do you have any favorite stories from when you were young?

13:41 Well, I used to love to read that that that that was my whole thing. I love to read I would sit in the in the living room. We didn't have sofa and loveseats and things we had the couches or chairs and I've ever just sit and read how have heat we used to sit by the pot belly stove with our feet up on the stove and read.

14:04 Shimmer what types of books you read the honey bunch

14:11 Not the time my mother bought them and Meyer Brothers in Paterson, they had a little book section and at that time it was like they cost a lot of money that was fifty cents book in the fight was expensive. How is your classmates remember you how would they remember me?

14:29 Not without Stone vein. I was a very good friend. I never argued with anybody. I got along with them. I was present of my my Commercial Club in high school and that mean Commercial Club.

14:45 Well at that time, but that was the course. I took the commercial course but like bookkeeping and to office work shorthand and so they had a commercial club and I was cuz I think for two terms that's when I started to really go to school.

15:03 After cutting for your well. Yeah. Why don't you talk about that?

15:08 Well, I had a cousin that was in her senior year and was her father who bought the business that my father was supposed to forget and to show a lot of money, and of course we were poor and says she didn't like school anymore, and I was a freshman. She was a senior and I go to school with lunch and she take me don't let's go to school today. Let's go to the stadium. That was a theater and we go to my brothers and sit in this large waiting room in the ladies room there and weed eat my lunch, but share it and then we go to the movie. We did that almost every day, and I I feel the whole term. Did you get caught? Yes, finally, my my aunt came up and told my mother what we were doing and my cousins didn't go back for her last year. She went on a toy business school and my parents sent me down and said, well you decided to do that to us now if you have to go back to school.

16:08 Just Thirty, but you're going to graduate so I put my mind to it after she left and

16:14 Start of school again. Was it hard to go back to school after? Yes, I had to make a new friends because my other friends, and had to make some what was that like it was hard in the beginning. It was hard to make new friends again, but they turned out to be great. So were you glad that they force you to go back or yes? Yeah. Yeah without a doubt if my children tried to do that today. I never would have let the what would you have said to them? I would have found out earlier than my mother.

16:45 What are your best memories of school and school?

16:50 I don't know. I guess all my friends and and plays that we were in and and choruses I sang in the poorest. I guess just that because we really didn't do anything at night. Really. What are your worst memories of school?

17:09 I have something there. Now I really don't like going back and getting settled again.

17:20 When did do you still know anybody from that time in your life? Yes, the next door neighbor I had Antonette and

17:32 There were others there was a woman named nicoline and Margaret and I still see a few of them.

17:44 What did you think your life would be like when you're older and I gotta get my my only dream was to get married have a good husband get married and have children. That was my my dream. Did you think about a career know did you want one but you just never thought of it never even crossed your mind, but you were in the commercial program. Yeah. Well, I was the Secretary of laughter. I got out of thing. You do forever forever know at that time women didn't go to work after they were married you stayed home and you took care of your family. Was that what you wanted to do or that was what was expected and I guess it was expected. I mean, in fact at that time when I was in the eighth grade, there were women teachers that we're supposed to be married. If you were married rattle loose split even even tell her the bank couldn't be married.

18:35 And I just thought I'd be home in.

18:38 Did you experience anything in the workplace?

18:43 That that that would indicate to you that maybe you know, it wouldn't be a good idea to be married and be working. Did you have anybody question you about what your plans were? The only thing is later on when I met your grandfather two people in love couldn't work in the same department. So we had to keep it quiet that we were going out that we were going steady until I finally told my the boss that I was secretary to that I was engaged cuz we were out on strike for three months. We were engaged during that time.

19:22 I am. He told me I said to a fight if any one of us has to leave I said I'd like to leave and he said no that won't be necessary you can stay but that was the only thing.

19:35 Can you tell me about your first kiss o God, the first one was so long ago who can remember it. But other than that I'd say my first one would be.

19:48 The fellow that I was going out with his name was Fred Lang.

19:52 And that's he's the fellow that we used to go into the city all the time to the movies and dinner and everything and he went into he was drafted. He was a second shift supervisor in Western Electric where I worked and he was drafted and he was put into the Infantry and he was killed in Italy to remember how the first kiss happened. We might have been the card just me home. I don't know your first serious relationship.

20:24 Yes, he was.

20:27 And then you met pop that I met pop that work at work. He had come back from service. He had been in the Pacific for 3 years and he came back to his old job there and I met him and we met but I just thought that I just didn't want to be bothered until he pursued.

20:52 And then we started go out together in September of 1946. I think how did he pursue you just kept calling me and trying to talk to me when I was going back and forth from my office to the main office.

21:12 And then what else to do he popped up at my house one night my mother and I had gone out to vote and when I came back he was sitting in the living room with my girlfriend.

21:24 That it came to take us out for a drink.

21:28 What did that mean back then? What did that mean by wasn't going out for a drink mean. Where would you go at that time? Taverns weren't like the bars that they are now, we would have gone but we didn't we went out for ice cream.

21:41 And what else did he do to the show that he was interested in you? Like I said keep calling all the time and we worked in the same department and he tried every occasion and that Christmas the first Christmas. He had a bunch of the other boys get together and they bought me. What was it called at that time the perfume evening in Paris a big box assorted.

22:10 What else did you do that from that time on we started to go out?

22:15 What lessons have you learned from dating?

22:19 That I enjoyed the respect that I got from the solace.

22:23 What is that mean they will at that time was called another place like they are today. How are they different? There are a lot different I mean

22:38 Kissing is done. Openly touchy-feely is done. Openly. I mean that at that time we didn't do things like that. When did you do hands?

22:52 Weakest. Good night.

22:54 How did you first fall in love with pop? How did I?

22:59 He was

23:02 He was very considerate. He was it was a gentleman and he got along great with my parents. My parents loved them and he just care a lot.

23:15 And you know, he was the one.

23:20 Because he was the only one after a while that I wanted to say. I didn't want to go out with anyone else was he going out with anyone else?

23:27 Just a couple of you know to a movie or something. Did you say anything to him about these other girls that he was dating? Yes, I did with I knew it. No, he wasn't other girls. There was one other girl and I found out about it as you find out.

23:42 Maybe at work. I heard about it through one of the other fellows. I don't remember and I told him that I knew about it and I told him that I didn't want him to waste my time or his that if he wanted to go with her. That was fine, but it had to be either or what did he say?

24:02 He just said you don't mean that and I suggest I do think about it and he called me up that night and he said I gave her up. How did he propose?

24:15 I think it was Easter night. He pick me up after dinner.

24:21 And we've been out for a ride with a beautiful night and we went for ice cream. I was sitting there talking and he said something about

24:30 Maybe going out to look for a ring.

24:33 Cuz he'd like to get engaged and that's in the he gave it to me on my birthday in the park. What kind of moon was it a diamond. So it's a carat diamond surrounded on each side by by three diamonds at that time. Was that a comment picked it up. Now? I picked it up now wasn't usually that that large no.

24:57 I was very lucky. What were some of the best times during your marriage before your marriage describe your wedding. I was running like we were one of the first couples to have a sit-down dinner. Usually that they were held in that Firehouse or something with sandwiches and soda beer and I think we were one of the first in our group and everybody that we knew that had a sit-down dinner at Lynn Eaves and no Haledon.

25:33 What did you wear white gown white Veil?

25:37 What did I wear when they were in gold?

25:45 Gold champagne and ice blue eyes and how is your wedding different from a wedding today? Cheryl's wedding your granddaughter's wedding.

25:56 I don't think of all that you mean to say at the house or anything or that was different always went to church. And and no no now what were some of the best times during your marriage?

26:10 We had a lot of rough times but it really didn't didn't really bother us. We never argued over it and if anybody says that they've been married so long and never had an argument they're lying because we loved each other and we are do I mean that's part of that's part of a good marriage because we were honest with each other. We told each other how we felt and

26:35 I think the best times were when my children were born. What was that? Like well when I first saw your mother, I just she was my first

26:47 She was just adorable. She was a little Rollie Pollie and she was chubby and and pink and and I just fell in love with her. How how was having her different from when Charles had her baby this year.

27:02 Well, I had mine normally Wears Prada. Cheryl had to go after a while she had to end up with a cesarean. But other than that, I mean that she labored 13 hours. I did to what were the hospitals like with a many others were not allowed. No, I was up on the third floor on top was sitting down on the first floor in the father's waiting room. Did you wish you could have been there? Oh, I'm definitely I think every man should be with his wife to see what she goes through.

27:32 Was it the same when you had your second child for now, when I had to another my head on K. I wasn't feeling good that day and we were having dinner when my first contraction hit me and the doctor said to get to the hospital right away. And I took a friend who is a nurse with me and as we were going down in the Broad Avenue, she told pop that he better go fast because the pains for coming fast and we had to stop and we got a policeman for a police escort and I had him a 17-minute that was the difference with Papa already working for the police force. Then know he was working and writes. What was he doing? He was a painter.

28:18 How did he become a police officer? Will he heard that there was two openings on the force and Totowa and someone had made a snide remark that when he went to get his stuff.

28:34 Application to become a policeman someone made a remark that they didn't think another Guinea would make it or something. He wouldn't be so he study real hard and he came in second.

28:46 He was determined to show them that again. I could make it there quotes on quote. How is that different in your family once he became an officer?

29:01 Well, the only difference was that we didn't get to celebrate a lot of holidays together. He had to work but the children were pretty good that they understood it was a good father. I wasn't that he neglected them. Any other time were they scared because he was out doing that type of John. Oh, no, they weren't they just took it in stride. They knew that you know that he would he would be okay by was the one that worries. I remember wearing when I was little I thought it was I worried what were some of the most difficult times in your marriage.

29:36 Well in the beginning when I had your mother, she had a stomach spasm. It was a muscle in her stomach that wouldn't open when she took her bottle and as soon as the milk hit that muscle that all came back up to her nose in her mouth.

29:52 And she was only 7 days old when the doctor put pablum in it thinking the weight of the problem would open it what is happening episode like a serial?

30:04 Anthem

30:07 He said they'd watch it carefully. She may even have to have surgery and what did they do? Well, they didn't they just hope that this pablum would overdo the tree and it did it. Did you have any favorite stories from your marriage or about pop?

30:25 Trying to think I don't think so. I mean might my marriage was just good. I mean there was no good times or no bad times. It was just a good marriage. Did you ever think about getting divorce? I'll never

30:35 What's that question what advice do you have for a successful relationship for couples today?

30:41 To be honest with each other never ever go to bed. Angry always kiss and make-up. I tell that to all the young couples today better getting married. It's not good to hold a grudge because the longer you hold it the worse it gets never ever go to bed angry.

30:59 And dumb

31:01 Just be honest. Love one another and everything should be 50/50. You should share things. Do you have any advice on being a good parent?

31:13 Yes, I believe in.

31:18 I will say punishing but I believe that there should be rules and regulations and I think there should be things that they should be held to I think they should have chores to do a lot of children today get away with a lot of things and all they want to do is be there on the computer or play TV games and I don't think that that's healthy. How is being a parent changed you.

31:43 I worried a lot. I worried about my children. I worried that they'd be okay. I worried when they were sick.

31:51 Just don't worry. I'll sure do now I worry about their children.

31:56 Do you have any favorite stories about your kids?

32:01 I'm trying to think. Yeah, one of them one of them was when your mother was in.

32:12 I don't know but it's in the fourth grade or fifth grade. I had show-and-tell and of course kids brought in little things from home, but she called and Elsia mungcal George up. They had all these animals on their property and they put down the aisle am I for show and tell a real lamb and that the teacher was so proud that the she got she requested from the principal to let the whole school out to see the slam.

32:42 Do you remember when Ralph do you remember when Mom left home for good? It was so awful. Has you feel what I felt like I couldn't cook for the next couple of days. I can set the table for just three people instead of four. I cried a lot and I'm down the street know she lived.

33:07 But I'm mr. Terribly I really was I mean, you know, we were close. How did you feel when your last child left home for good when your uncle left and it was like an empty nest syndrome was just the two of us. Did you have fun doing things that you didn't do in the kids get out and we did travel more what? Yes, we did we use well after pup retired. We went to Florida for 6 weeks each year. And you know, I'm not a traveler. So I was just as happy doing things around around the house. What are your dreams for Mom and Donkey for their Futures? I wish that your mother would meet somebody nice and settle down with and I just wish them both a lot of success and good health. What did you think your children were going to be when they grow up?

33:59 Well, I wished your mother would like I said would have been married and had her children around her and good husband and I did and it didn't work out and have a good time and

34:10 For your uncle I will push to he had been going to school to be an orthodontist and then he dropped out of that but he's got a good job while I want them to do is be happy on this job and be comfortable if you could do anything in the world right now, what would you do and why I would drive it now, it's too late. Why would why would that be this thing? Because I'm I'm obliged to people to take me here and there.

34:39 Can you tell me complete complete change here? Can you tell me about your religious or spiritual beliefs?

34:45 Well, I do believe in God. I do believe that there is a Hereafter and I do believe in prayer.

34:52 Have you ever experienced any Miracles or times when you felt that your faith was shaken? Yes when your grandfather died.

35:01 I don't like I was mad at God I want you to do I stop going to church. I thought he had a lot of nerve taking them.

35:11 And then went well, I've come back to it. I haven't got the back to church. I mean I go when I can and I still believe in him and I believe that what he did he did for the best. Do you think about dying? Yes all the time lately. I was scared when I was younger, but now that I'm older I guess, you know, it's inevitable. How do you imagine your death?

35:40 I don't know. I really don't I really don't.

35:43 When you meet God, what do you want to say to him?

35:47 I want to ask him to forgive me if I've done anything wrong, and I'd like him to find me a place with my husband and my mother and father. Do you have any regrets or anything? You could go back and change again? I should have learned how to drive. That's my only regret as far as marriage. I would do it all over again. Same guy children same thing.

36:10 Send grandchildren.

36:12 In the same great-grandchild if you were to give advice to Cheryl Scott and me or to Nathan or children to come in our family. What would it be? Well any of my grandchildren any of them I would tell them to love one another I'm talking about family. Now, I believe in and family being a close-knit family celebrating holidays together being kind to each other loving each other because I still think that's very important. What are the most important things you've learned about life.

36:46 I think to be kind to people I think you live better and you learn more by being kind it's it's easier to be kind than not to be. How do you want to be remembered?

36:58 As a loving grandmother.

37:01 Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you would like to add? I can't think of anything.

37:08 I can't.

37:12 No, I just want to somebody that I love my children. I love my grandchildren and I love my

37:19 Great grandson, who's really the icing on my cake. He really is he is a love.

37:27 I think we're done.