Jim Curtis and Anna Zolner

Recorded December 9, 2006 Archived December 9, 2006 01:20:45
0:00 / 0:00
Id: GCT003419

Description

daughter interviews her father about his life

Participants

  • Jim Curtis
  • Anna Zolner

Transcript

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00:08 I'm an honest Eagles Curtis owner. 35 years old today is December 9th, and I'm a Grand Central Terminal and I am the daughter.

00:23 Am I my name is Jim Curtis. I am now 62 years old today is December 9th, and we are at Grand Central Terminal. I am the father of Anna.

00:40 Dad could you tell me when and where you were born September 17th 1944 in Washington, DC

00:52 And did you also grow up in Washington state teen years and Washington live there until I went to away to college.

01:04 And what were your parents names? My mom was Christine Scudder Curtis, and my father was Eric, Victor Curtis.

01:17 And how many brothers and sisters do you have and what are their names? And birth order? I have two brothers and two sisters. My oldest brother is Vic Victor Curtis. He was born in.

01:33 Do you want do I need to get their ages?

01:35 He's he will be 70 years old next year after him was Bill who's who died in the year 2010 my sister Dottie who is two years older than I or I always like to say she's one year 11 months and 3 weeks older than I and four years five years after me. It's my sister, Deanna.

02:04 And what is your earliest memory of life asked me that yesterday and I got a little bit of thought I have several early memories.

02:18 I don't know if I specifically remember my earliest memory.

02:23 One of my early memories was a walking from my house up to our to our church in my neighborhood with my uncle you remember Uncle Dean Uncle Dean like to walk and he would come and visit us from Akron Ohio on occasion. And so he and I would walk as I was thinking about that and some good memories. I thought about another thing it's amazing. When you do try to recall some things I thought about walking with a neighbor of mine up. He was a man that he was the vice president of Riggs Bank in Washington and he had seven $5 I think no Sons. So I think he just enjoyed having me around and he and I would take walks and walk along the Creekside Inn in you as you know, how I am about litter. I think maybe I could

03:23 Set up as a child he and I would walk along and we will pick up glitter and put it in the bag and take it back with us. So that some early memories as a child sleep.

03:38 Well, that's kind of a good segue into my next question, which is how would you describe yourself as a child and generally would you say you had a happy childhood?

03:50 I think

03:53 I thought about that several times what I was a happy child cannot I think I was a happy child think we are then maybe P other people don't wonder what kind of Channel they were. I was a child wondered if I was happier than other people or whether they were happier than I but I think I think all in all I had a happy childhood. It wasn't it wasn't an easy childhood in those days. I was at our family didn't have a lot of money and so we are

04:28 But thanks pretty chaotic with two sisters and two brothers. Actually probably by my standards. I always considered myself to be privileged because my father owns his own business and we had a housekeeper and we call it was made but in those days but so we would have somebody to come in and take care of my mother worked with my father and his business. He he bought and sold printing machinery and delivered it from one city to another and so we had we had someone to look after us when we got home from school and

05:11 But we had chores to do and I remember that I don't know whether children today have as many choices as I had but anyway, so I thought I had a good childhood and Grandma me work full-time and also take care of y'all. She worked full-time for with my father's she was his secretary and she took care of all the the bills that would come in the business and

05:37 Answer the telephone and do things of that nature and then when she got home when she still have to cook dinner or did they always get rid of the evening meal? Sometimes she would cook. What was her name?

05:57 Wow, that's why car my granddaughter at least see and I'm going to call her Lulu it.

06:07 Okay, well.

06:12 On that childhood note. What what would you call? What would you describe as a perfect day when you were a child? Was there anything that you really enjoyed and you would consider just the ideal die as a kid, but I tell them myself and goes back to my childhood. One of my earliest memories. I was a probably 7 years old, maybe maybe a little older but I went away and went away. I got home from school and I went off to play with some of my friends then when I got home I got in trouble and I probably got a spanking which we tend to get back in those days, but already made they just got after me, but they said why didn't you tell I was late for supper and let supper was on the table and I came dragging in and they said why didn't you tell us tell Lily where you were going?

07:12 I said well I didn't tell her where I was going because I didn't know where I was going.

07:18 I just went out the door just kind of I would go out and see what was going on out there with my friends. And and so that's what I would do after school and go find friends and we had Woods near our house and we could play in the woods and build forts. Especially Christmas time. I get Christmas trees we bill for it people throw the Christmas trees out and I would carry them down to the woods and stack them up and make something like an eagle or something and we called our tree fort.

07:54 What kind of house did you live in? And what was the name of the neighborhood neighborhood with Congress Heights and the house was a large Bungalow. I think it had one two, three, four bedrooms and upstairs and only one bathroom.

08:14 And downstairs, it had a large living room which before the remodel before the house was remodeled actually was two runs probably a sitting room or parlor in the front that had the old drawing doors and then there was a room behind that and they took the drawing doors out and made it a lot. We had probably the largest living room of any of my friends a lot of my friends when I was a teenager would come over and then like them.

08:44 Be at my house cuz we had such a large large house.

08:48 And that was in Washington DC and then when the grandma and Grandad

09:00 Move to Owens Road and moved away from the hotter than when I went to college and 1963 and about 1964. They moved just about to 2 miles away to Owens Road. Just outside of Washington in Maryland.

09:19 So you lived in Congress Heights your whole life and then they moved but that also called Anacostia. Did you live there? I didn't even living there that wasn't able to before you got to Monday, but it was closer to the

09:40 Heart of Washington DC

09:44 I just close to where I ended up loving. That's right.

09:48 So you mentioned living?

09:52 Hadn't a wind going to college board did any of your other brothers and sisters go to college and my brothers and sisters.

10:03 I don't know if Deanna went to college and she didn't graduate from college. She may have gone.

10:08 I don't think anyone don't think anyone went to college other than I

10:13 The sunset really wasn't

10:16 Something that you had been exposed to what what prompted you to want to go to college if you want to do to get somewhere in life. That was that was the end. That was the thing. It was drummed into us after the Space Age started after spotting it went up and everything was you have to go to, to be somebody and so I decided then well, I want to go I want to be somebody so I guess I have to go to college and so I didn't know what I was going to do now. It's going to go to college and so

10:55 And my parents decided Well, you will go.

10:59 How did you end up choosing a college in North Carolina in the South and I thought well I would like to self and I really didn't feel I was had the

11:14 Brain power to go to a large school like MIT or Georgetown George Washington up. I thought I would do fine in a small Southern school. And so I applied and I did get accepted and what college did you go to Atlantic Christian college, but now it's been renamed Barton College in Wilson, North Carolina.

11:40 But you know, I got to Wilson.

11:43 And is that where you met Mom Brooks where I'm at her?

11:47 And how did you guys make friends college and we all we all just kind of congregate together and she was a friend of some of my friends and we start eating eating supper together and met each other and we started dating each other.

12:07 And how long were you dating before you proposed?

12:16 In October in the fall of my

12:22 Junior year

12:25 And then we were engaged.

12:29 Somewhere along in February of them 6 months later.

12:36 And did you do a formal proposal and ask ask her father's permission? I can't remember exactly how I asked her how to remember the conversation little bit but how I asked her to marry me but I remember that the fact that she said well you don't have to ask my father had met them before so I went home with her.

13:09 That was kind of funny it was because he I think he knew what I was coming there for I guess he just knew by the way we acted in you and her brother was there and her sister-in-law and we were having we're going to have supper and then it got kind of quiet. I tried to get it quiet and I said well miss the winds. I have something I need to talk to you about this matter what we're not going to talk about anything right. Now. Let's have another drinks. He just got up from the table and went and did something else and then he came back again said Wellness wins. I need to talk to you about something. He said I don't want to hear anything. You have to say. That's when Max maxi.

13:53 Your aunt my sister-in-law be she said shut up Papa. He's got something he wants to talk about himself.

14:03 I asked for her hand and he went to bed the next day and stayed in bed all day. I guess I didn't want his little girl little girl.

14:23 Well, what was it like living through that time. In the in the six days as I think you were in college in the six days and

14:34 That was dating like then and what was it like to be a college student and I think you were studying religious studies and then it is now that our college did there was some restrictions not that it was a real conservative college, but just because it was a religiously-affiliated college. They were required to go to I think it's only when you were a freshman you are required to go to Chapel once a week and I had forgotten about that till just now but we did and

15:11 Another rule on that campus was that you couldn't drink at all and you could end supposedly you couldn't drink even if you were at home. So everybody would sneak off and Maurice. This was the place you go to get a beer and and Jerry Hotel you can go down there and get a beer but we we we lived in fear if we were with family found us we could be expelled from school. So I had to come back to the dorm and it's fine and they had to be in by 11 if they weren't in then they were the doors were locked and I don't know what happened after that how they got in but it was not good. If you weren't back on time that didn't exist anymore today people would know anything about that at all.

16:05 Well shortly after you guys got married, I think Chrissy was born and then

16:14 Probably four years flew and I was born kind of going back to that day in your mind. Do you have any recollection of what went through?

16:27 Your head what kind of thoughts you had the first time you saw me one of those things that I remember being born with that we lived in South Carolina and we haven't we had to get to the hospital in Georgia and in Augusta, Georgia and to get to the hospital had to cross the railroad tracks. So we lived in fear during the whole pregnancy that you were going to come and the train was going to be coming and sure enough the Anna was there then I could come to visit us that weekend, I believe.

17:06 I think she yeah, I think she was there and so then about 5 in the evening your mom to start having labor pains and

17:17 I think we went to bed about 11 that we better go to the hospital. So we got to the hospital with no with no complications and

17:28 I remember when you were born you.

17:32 Just so you were pale your skin the soap and I thought was seasick and it turned out they just need to give you a extra dose of iron or something, but

17:47 And all your glory and it's it was it was it was a good time. Maybe that's why I have such a delicate Constitution.

17:58 What did you know before I was born that you were going to name me Anna or did you just see me inside or how did you choose cuz we didn't know in those days. We didn't know what you were. We didn't we didn't know the sex and so that was a complete surprise. So cuz we thought you were going to be a boy. We just assumed you were going to be a boy and you going to let me name the Russell after your grandfather, but but you want and so we had that I don't know if we had thought about a name so much it was and I don't recall it being something with all about 4 months and months.

18:36 But I think that maybe since maybe since the Anna was there. It sounds like we didn't given any thought maybe we did. I don't.

18:45 But so I like the name Anna and since Deanna was there that would be good. That was a good name something we came up with that.

18:57 Well

18:59 I'm sure you have a lot of different memories of my childhood. But is there any is there any one memory or particular memory that stands out?

19:09 Sort of infancy do

19:13 Toddlerhood one of the main things that stands out as was our time when I took you to the sub Deb ball.

19:23 You know how beautiful you are.

19:29 Once my remember the times we would go trick or treating and and Christmas caroling together.

19:37 Yeah, that was fun, LOL.

19:40 And some of the times we had just think about some of the times you and I had at the beach just playing together at the beach.

19:50 So some of the things I remember.

19:57 What are all good birthday party? Yeah, that's where always fun.

20:04 I always had a good time having the summer parties.

20:08 Do you remember any hard things about?

20:12 Times when I was growing up.

20:16 Hard times

20:19 About you or about

20:23 Either one, but

20:26 And I put you through hell or anything. I don't remember those. I try not to remember me hard times.

20:38 I try not to dwell in the on the bad things anyway, so I just try to remember the good things.

20:46 That's not to make light of it. I. Just don't recall anything really bad.

20:52 Oh, I don't know. I do remember the one bad thing.

20:56 When when you were gone to a party in the mother called us up and said do you know your daughter is over here to party and we thought that you were somewhere else. That was a teenage prank, but that was so funny how it worked out because that's just how how life is when you think I've got this thing covered and I know nothing's going to happen to me and say there you were at the party with girls and boys and there were no chaperones there. And so we we thank the lady for calling and we just went over to the house not from the door incident.

21:34 Without with I think Anna's here and it's probably time for her to come home with us Matt and you came out and that was the end of that.

21:44 I thought it was an it was I thought it was handled very well at the time cuz I don't think we hollered at you or gave you a bad time about it, but I know we did get your attention. How did they know? That's true. That's true.

22:04 Well, did you have any?

22:09 Pacific dreams for me growing up. Did you have anything?

22:14 You still hook up a little bit Yeah. I wanted you two to be I wanted you to be.

22:22 To have the things that have the world to to explore and done that. Look on back on that with a really good feeling that I feel like of all the things that have that I've been able to accomplish that is one of them, but you have seemed to go into the world and you do what what do you like to do and it mean you like to do what what I wanted you to do, which is that's you have to do what you want to do, but it's a you've gotten into a life and enjoy my life.

22:59 Cuz I wanted you to enjoy.

23:10 On a similar note when you think about some of the things I've accomplished. Is there anything that stands out as far as in a striking accomplishment that I've had in my life?

23:28 I think he is. We we talked about today new compliments marrying a good husband having a good life together and having somebody that that appreciates you and you appreciate them and there's not a lot of strife in your life in that regard and you respect him and he respects you and I admire that in you and

23:57 When I appreciate it for you that you have that kind of life.

24:05 Go back to your life a little bit. Thank you for those compliments. How would you say your life has been different than what what you'd imagine. Well, I thought I think about it all from it's not my life. I don't know what people think some people I think or

24:26 Fortunate enough to set a goal and our set goals and

24:34 And meet those goals and their life I maybe it's maybe it's just my imagination. Maybe maybe I think that they have the perfect life. And so sometimes I think about that think they have the perfect life and I don't and I can't accomplish the goals that I wanted to accomplish cuz there's something always just

24:57 Turning within me to to seek this goal or 6 not going in I think.

25:02 I try not to dwell like a saying on the bad things cuz they're I think there have been a lot of bad things have happened to me unfortunate things and I didn't want to happen. But then at the same time, I think I look at people everyday and see their life and I'm just so much so fortunate to have done things that I've done.

25:28 Navigate to I thought about that I thought.

25:34 From where I started with when I was a child, we didn't I say we were fortunate we did but we didn't have a whole lot of money and so on my own I think course nobody's a self-made person. I've always have had help to do everything but

25:50 Through through determination of been able to him.

25:54 Create a pretty nice life for myself and do things some of the things I wanted to do. I always wanted to travel that's no.

26:04 That's just something I wanted to that was one of my goals and it's just been amazing to me that I was able and been able to live this long and see as much that I have seen to have come from a

26:20 A humble beginning and

26:23 I've been able to kind of keep my eye out and take advantage of opportunities to come my way and been able to travel and see see the world.

26:38 What are some of the places that you've been there?

26:41 But you remember some of the places you've traveled. I always remember my first trip to Europe and that's when you were there is an exchange student cuz I that was that was probably one of the biggest Thrills on my life to be able to to go to to Europe and then in to get on the train and go to Paris and we got on the subway and I knew exactly where we're going we come up out of the subway and there's Notre Dame right there. That would look that.

27:12 And then

27:15 What give him that opportunity what a couple years later with the Friendship force, and I was able to go to England and then to Norway.

27:24 Is it during the second marriage I was able to go to all these different countries and see all these.

27:34 Just totally different.

27:37 Ways of living to go to Greece that was beautiful and I love going to Portugal.

27:44 I definitely think you've instilled Your Love of travel and me and definitely something that I still enjoy and I'm glad we get to enjoy that together.

27:56 Well, I know you don't like to dwell on pennies dark periods or sad. But

28:04 Just for the sake of this interview.

28:07 Do you have any moments that you outside work some of your darkest about probably the saddest when was your mom told me she was leaving that was the one that I can that I can talk about. It was really sad cuz that was like, you know, I'm one of the goals it was an it was a gold I want to have a happy life and I kept driving for it and finally realize it.

28:42 Something like that couldn't happen. So

28:46 I was pretty sad. It's probably then.

28:50 Probably the saddest one.

28:52 That was one of the saddest areas of my life to ironically maybe the second one will be.

29:07 But it is amazing. How life works out that you and Mom are such good friends now and maybe year relationship is strengthened.

29:19 Passage not revealed to us just yet.

29:24 Well was there.

29:26 The time. That you would describe as your happiest so far.

29:32 Time when you just kind of felt maybe in the groove.

29:37 That's hard to say what my happy is that it should be. I don't know maybe should be easy to say what your happy spirit is.

29:48 I can't really.

29:51 I can't really think of what my happiness.

29:56 Was that they were periods in my life where we where we moved, you know several times and I enjoyed when we did move enjoyed. It was scary and I would think about it. I was going I was going to be sad when we had to move away and leave the friends that we have made cuz I always always enjoyed meeting people and establishing relationships. And then when we leave I thought what they do, they won't ever be the same again and then we'll move and I would find that we didn't meet new people that were that was a happy time. Probably now that I'm disgusting little bit one and you'll know about the time when we lived in Rocky Mountain had several friends Judy in Georgian Marshall and Susan and when she enjoyed

30:45 Enjoy friendships and enjoy.

30:49 People's company

30:52 Having dinner with people and and doing things together. So that's a happy. That's a happy time in life. Definitely enjoyed that too.

31:04 Well

31:06 Kind of coming a little more to the present. Now. You have two grandchildren that are Chrissy's Children Human Lucy and one day you won't be with us anymore.

31:23 So when that time would come which hopefully won't be anytime soon as they're what would you want Lucy and who to remember most about you?

31:31 I would one of them to remember me as a kind person.

31:38 And then have fond memories of me and into know that that I do care a lot about them and their future and and want the best for them in and I've tried to see if they have a good present life cuz it's not easy for them right now either they they struggle and they they're just do their parents struggle. They're not aware of but I want of course, I think everybody wants the world for their children and their grandchildren and

32:10 I would like them to have I would like them to have a future that has promise.

32:18 Have you really enjoyed being a grandfather? I have enjoyed being a grandfather.

32:26 It's easier to be a grandfather than a parent because you can has anybody okay, you can love them and leave them.

32:35 I've tried not to tried to look at them and say well they don't have to be perfect. Like I had to make my own children. Perfect, but these children hit me and then I look at my daughter when in my son-in-law when they're Raisman and you can correct him. We're not correct him and thinking well if they if they get corrected, that's fine. And if they don't they'll still survive so you think about it in a different way as grandparent than as a parent.

33:06 When we're starting to come to a close, so

33:10 Is there anything that you've never told me before but you want to tell me now?

33:16 I don't know about you or

33:20 I wasn't prepared for that question.

33:26 Just stand up.

33:30 Love you a lot and

33:34 I'm proud. I'm very proud of you as you know, and I'm looking forward to I hope I can stay around awhile cuz I like to see and what what you're doing in life and I'm just interested to know where you going to wear your like you and your husband, where your life is going to take you in.

33:56 I would just like to be a part of that and see where it's going to go.

34:02 Thank you.

34:05 Well

34:08 Now's the chance if there's anything about me that you've always wanted to know but never asked you can ask me now.

34:21 But if that's okay.

34:27 I can't think of anything. Maybe I'll think of it and I'll ask you on our way back to your house.

34:35 Well, I want to thank you for this interview Dad. This is something I've been looking forward to for a long time and

34:43 I was thinking of things I wanted to tell you and I just want to thank you for being such a great father to me.

34:51 And you know, I have so many happy memories of our childhood my childhood and I think about, you know growing up on Eastern Avenue in the bedrooms that I have with the

35:08 Heart

35:10 Bedspreads and gingham and you know, I just

35:16 Think that I realized even as a child that you and Mom just wanted me to have everything and anything and I think you know, I was really aware of that even then that you know, there was nothing that you wouldn't do for me or Chrissy and I'm just so grateful for everything you expose me to and

35:38 You know, I'm really grateful that you expose me to spirituality into religion because he know I've had a lot of hard times in my life and I feel like that's something I can always count on as a relationship, you know, what the higher power and that's the value that you instilled in me from a very young age and something I really enjoyed what's going to church together and

36:03 And I learned that from you and that's something that a lot of times it's just you know unique to our relationship because Mom would stay home and watch CBS Sunday Morning and you and I we go to church together get to see a lot of our friends that you mentioned at church and that was like an extended family for my

36:21 And I know we both love ice cream have a lot of memories of going to get ice cream together having our special time and

36:31 Then as I got older, and I know you would come visit me in college and Richmond, and we had a lot of fun there and you I Remember You Drive Me Out to graduate school loan out in Illinois that was really hard for me because you probably remember that. I just scared to death and I really didn't like it and the Roadster flatter and flatter and longer and longer and I just didn't want to stay and I remember crying as a please take me home, please, please and I think your heart was breaking as much as mine was and he just won't just give this semester and

37:09 You know, I thank you for that too. Cuz I think you always did push me, but gently to know that I could do and be anything I wanted to do, but at least expose me to things so that I could try and you know, you were so brave to let me leave home at 15 to go overseas and

37:28 Peter now and I know that if I wanted to be a parent I could I don't know that I could let my child go away at 15, but I think that was just very selfless of you and Mom to allow me that opportunity.

37:43 And I really respect your

37:49 Your ability to just

37:52 Really observe and night I consider you.

37:57 It's a very Soulful person sometimes and it takes a while to warm up to people but

38:04 You know whenever you do contribute to the conversations a lot of times, it's really profound what you have to say, and I've always considered you just

38:16 More of us all full person that doesn't just chit-chat to talk. But just where to take it in and you in a make your observations and then you'll tear when it's necessary nothing. That's help me in life sometimes because sometimes I feel uncomfortable with the silences, but you've shown me that that's okay.

38:35 And dumb

38:37 Dinner no matter what.

38:40 We've been through and I'm just so happy to have you as my friend and my dad.

38:47 And I love you, and I'm I was very excited about this opportunity to interview you and I hope that you know one died when Lucy and he were listening to this and maybe their children into this will give them an opportunity to know their grandfather and their great-grandfather. Maybe they're great. Great grandfather.

39:06 Set before we close. Is there anything we didn't talk about that you would like that I had and you saying those things good opportunity. I think this interview process has his good. It's been good for me because maybe we'll open up dialogue for you and me and in other people that would try this experience. It's it's not easy talking to somebody you love and you just something just like what I understand. They already know that so I don't need to say that but I think this is a good step and maybe opening up dialogue for people and it was a good initiative to do.

39:52 I can see areas will whoop. I'll go back to this interview later on when we don't have one. We're not constrained by a 30 minute time. And what's and I'll go from revisit some of these things that we started talking about and saying remember what you said about.

40:09 What was the fastest time of my life and maybe I'll share it with you or maybe I want but this is good to do this type of thing.