George Allen Haas and Jody Harper

[00:02] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Okay, so I'm George Allen Hayes III. H a a s. Most people would say it Hayes but we say Hayes from Mobile, Alabama. I just turned 60. I can't believe that. Today's date, November 11, 2023, in Mobile, Alabama. And I'm being interviewed by my high school friend, Jody Kamens Harper She's a good old friend of mine from Mobile.

[00:26] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And I am full name Jody Kamens Harper Harper. I am 59. Hadn't hit the 60 mark yet, but getting close. And today is November 11, 2023, and we're in Mobile, Alabama, and I'm here to talk to. His full name is George Allen Hayes, but I call him Allen. So in high school, we called him Allen, but I'm here to talk to him. Yeah, no, we ought. No. Oh, no, I forgot. No. Well, alien gays. Alien gays. One of his names, because he was always somewhere else. He was always, his brain was always focused on things far, far beyond what was going on, only good things. But he has a really diverse and wonderful history of his family. So that's what we're going to talk about. But first of all, Alan, a lot of people remember when we were seniors in high school that you were famous among us because you were in shooting competitions and you were going to Argentina for a shooting competition. So you were highly skilled as a sharpshooter, as a, what would you say? Shotgunner?

[01:37] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Shotgunner, trap and skeet shooting. Yes.

[01:39] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Okay, so tell. And I always just thought you were in skeet shooting. I never really knew and didn't, it wasn't well explained to me at the time. So tell me a little bit about what happened from high school and what your career was because you were in the Olympics. So I want to hear kind of how you led up to that.

[01:56] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I'm not a special Olympics, as Dan like, to tease my friends about. Well, you know, I was going to focus a little bit on my family because there's so much old history in mobile, and I know it's kind of trite to talk about your father and your grandfather type of thing. That's what I really want to focus on. But, yeah, my daddy was a West Point graduate, and he was on the skeet shooting team. And ironically enough. Well, we're going to talk about that later in the conversations, all these tangents we get on. But he was on the skeet shooting team with a guy by the name of Ed White. He was the first astronaut that died in that serious fire in 1967. So I grew up skeet shooting with daddy, and it became something I really loved to do with my father. And later on, yeah, I made the Olympic team after being on the army shooting team, 1988 Olympic team. So thank you, but I really want, it's nothing compared to what my grandfather and father did. The greatest generation is for this country.

[02:46] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit first about, I know we can backtrack further and deeper into family history, but tell me about your grandfather and your father and their service, because it is Veterans day today, so tell us about their service.

[03:01] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yes, it is Veterans day, and I thought, so that's kind of a fitting tribute to them, too. But I'm third generation army infantry. My grandfather was army infantry in World War two, Colonel George Hayes or we say Hayes. And then my father was George Hayes junior, and he was a West pointer graduate, 53. And then, of course, I was army infantry as well, but mostly in the army shooting team. And I'm George Allen Hayes the third. I don't know why they couldn't just name me Frank or something, but anyway, the Georgias got confusing. But my friends, like you said, know me here as Allen, but starting kind of on a timeline. I was just in conversation with a distant cousin of mine, Russell Hayes, and he's done extensive research on the family of stuff that I just didn't even have any idea how long. But we came over from a place in Germany, apparently immigrated here as early as 1822 from Wurttemberg, Germany, is what the record shows. And some of us in 1835 were here, George Augustus Hayes, one of the original immigrants, and moved up to what is now Crichton. I forgot what it was originally called, but.

[04:06] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. Well, tell a little bit about that because that was interesting. They came into Marengo county when they came from Germany. The family immigrated in and were in Marengo County, Alabama. But they decided to move from what was originally Demopolis. Right.

[04:21] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And then they apparently weren't up the river, if you can imagine coming to this country when all your belongings were on a boat from Germany and there was no telephones or anything, just moving your entire life here and settled in Mobile. And there's a lot of hazes in Mobile. I'm related to some of them I haven't even met, but, so.

[04:37] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But they came in to Moringo county, and it was Napoleonville.

[04:41] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Is that called Napoleonville? And that's now Crichton, from what I understand, and settled here, and that's 1835 is when most of it started. And it was 1844. There was the yellow fever. We had some family members die, I, and one of them was a Hays or Hayes high family it was the George Augustus Hayes. Yeah. I'm confused which one was which? And Russell's the expert on that, and he needs to do a story core. But, you know, to think of a lady who was here from Germany, and she had her brother's children and her children, they. All the men died, I think. And she had to start.

[05:16] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: I think we did talk about it. You were telling me about it on the way down here. So there was the family, the high family. And they had George Hayes or Hayes from Germany, married to Katherine.

[05:29] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Matt married Katherine High after he helped them settle here.

[05:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. And he helped them by. They put their whole, basically, house and belongings on a barge and brought it down from Marengo county and brought it downriver to what is now Crichton.

[05:45] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Crichton. And unloaded all the contents with oxen. Think about that. And the time. And then the yellow fever hit. Killed so many of them that one of the ladies was. I guess so. Catherine High was in charge of all these children and her brother's children.

[05:59] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: It was crazy because her parents died and her husband died. Yeah.

[06:01] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And she still didn't speak English well, German, no communications. And that could have been the beginning of the greatest tragedy, her family. But it turned to success story because we had all apparently been butchers. And they started Hayes Henley

[06:16] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: So her son, one of her sons started the butchery, and she married a.

[06:21] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Henley and it became the Hayes Henley And we were all butchers and meat products. And later on became Hayes Davidson Mobile. And if you talk to some. A lot of people, older people in Mobile, they will tell you that they always love the Hayes Davis products. I think it got bought out by Oscar Mayer or somebody in the late sixties, but I never heard anything negative about Hayes Davis.

[06:42] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. But a lot of people bought their meat from that company.

[06:45] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: It was a beloved mobilia meat supplier from that.

[06:47] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And they were in Crichtone.

[06:49] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yep. Starting Crichton.

[06:50] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: That's right. Okay.

[06:52] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: But so, moving forward to my grandfather, that's where I really know the history more than anything. He was born, I believe, in 1901, and he attended University of Alabama. And I've got his cup here, and it's a silver cup that my grandmother gave me.

[07:08] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And we're gonna hit it with some silver polish one.

[07:10] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah. And he graduated in 19. It says session 1920 519 26.

[07:15] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And.

[07:15] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And he was the most outstanding student of the School of commerce, the business school. So he got his degree in Alabama in 25 or 26. And I think he. I don't know the details. This. I'm sorry. But I think he was either army reserve or Army Alabama National Guard or maybe he was ROTC. But, you know, he was in the military and he got commissioned as an officer. And then came the great war. And in the great war of World War two, he was a colonel, I believe lieutenant colonel when D Day happened and he went aboard at Utah beach. And I don't think it was D Day. I think it was the day after or possibly two days after. But. And let me just say something about my grandfather. He was the sweetest old man you ever would have met. We used to go to his house. Lucky survived the war. And we would go to see Paw-Paw as we called him. We would sit in his lap and he was real quiet. And he had a couple poodles, you know, cupcake and cookie. And he loved the poodles. And my grandmother was there, Katherine Cook Hayes. And that's another tangent we'll go on, but anywhere, we would sit in his lap. And he was just the most loving grandfather you could ever have. And I kind of knew as a kid that he was a war hero. You know, I say a hero. To me, they're all heroes of the greatest generation. But we just had no idea what he had really gone through. And I would try to ask him questions about the war and he would not talk about it. He would just tell us, his children, that war should be avoided. War is a tremendous waste, especially of materials and equipment, but more importantly, people. And I knew something, even as a child sitting in his lap that he was deeply scarred from it, you know, that he had seen so much. And I later found out when I was a young man that he had liberated either Dachau or Auschwitz, some of the prison war camps, and he was in the 28th Infantry Division. They went aboard at Utah beach. The reason he probably only survived because he went aboard at Utah. I'm not d day, but the day after or so.

[09:12] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And Utah beach was a lot kinder.

[09:14] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah. Than bloody Omaha beach was the worst. So to put that in terms of perspective that I try to tell people, this is why Jody wants me to tell you some of the stories before I die. But, you know, we lost, what, 3000 something people at September 11, there was only 3000 something people lost at Utah beach. There was something like 20,000 people lost at Omaha beach. And that's the day that the greatest generation really saved the world from tyranny. I mean, they really did. And I went there years later with my aunt on the other side of my family. And I just don't even understand as an infantry soldier how they survived interlocking fields of fire with no place to hide, you know, because the Germans had that all planned out in a very well, very well set up defensive position, which usually gets a win. I mean, there's almost no way to defeat it.

[10:02] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But we just did heavy emplacements.

[10:04] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Heavy emplacements. And it's just amazing that he survived. So his reward for surviving Utah beach was to go on and later on get caught in the battle of the bulge. A lot of people today, if they survive something like D Day or whatever, they would been sent home as heroes. But he got to get fight later, so he's right.

[10:22] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Freezing, weren't they?

[10:23] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: That's where mo. I think they lost more people to freezing in D Day. I mean, the battle of the bulge.

[10:29] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: The battle of the Bulge, the Hurtgen forest. Is that part.

[10:31] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: It was part of the Ardennes forest.

[10:34] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Arden, okay.

[10:35] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah. And I went and visited all that, too, and I just don't understand how they made it all through all that. But anyway, he came back after the war and he told a little bit of stories about it, if you really pressed him. But he really didn't want to talk about it much. And now my father told me more about my grandfather than anything. And he was a West Pointer class in 1953. And when he graduated, half his class before him was lost to the korean conflict, which a lot of people today don't even seem to know. The forgotten war of Korea, you know.

[11:03] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. My father was in korean war, but he was in Turkey. He was at a listening post in Turkey. So he wasn't seeing any kind of. He wasn't in the action part of it, I guess you would say.

[11:14] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah, well, the thing I like to say about my father, I remember one of the most poignant things, though, is that he was so against the communists and what he got to see in 1956, I think if you asked the average person today about the hungarian revolution, they wouldn't even know what you're talking about. And that wasn't that long ago.

[11:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right.

[11:33] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: 1956. And he was deployed there as a young lieutenant after West Point with an infantry and tank platoon to render assistance to the hungarian people that were trying to escape freedom. And their only crime was they were trying to escape from a country that was being taken over from what was originally socialist, but is now becoming communist. They declared their own independence, kind of like Ukraine did here. And the Russians said, no, no, no, you don't. You're one of our territories, conquered territories, and we're not going to allow that to happen. So they sent in some people and fought, and the Hungarians really defended themselves and won victoriously, apparently earlier. But a week later, they sent reinforcements, and my father was issued orders as a young lieutenant to only assist with people. I'm sorry, it's kind of a depressing thing, but I think people need to know that's part of this interview. Because he saw families get mowed down, literally mowed down with machine guns.

[12:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And all they were trying to do was escape.

[12:34] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: A trip flare would go up, and he said, son, I would see him on the other side, barbed wire. And we were under strict orders not to do anything unless they made it to the fence because we didn't want to start a world war again. But he said, you know, these family, we'd be trying to get out and they would just mow him down. He said. He said, this guy up in a pillbox, you know, you know, a little sob up there. He said, I would whistle a couple rounds from a 50 cow and put it to rest. But he said that would start an international incident. He said, they didn't dare point their guns at us. They knew better.

[13:03] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: You're talking about. So what, visually, I'm trying to visualize what he saw. He was at his post on whatever the border was in Hungary.

[13:12] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah.

[13:13] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: The border was to freedom. But on the other side of the border were communists, were russian warriors, Russians.

[13:20] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: That came in to reclaim the territory. And they were not letting even civilians escape the country.

[13:25] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. And the civilians were trying to leave.

[13:27] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And that your only crime is that you want to go to freedom. These weren't even people that were even fighting. These were not the resistance forces.

[13:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right.

[13:34] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: So he saw it with his own eyes, and he said, and I remember.

[13:37] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: I saw a little bit. A few clips the other night on a history station, and they showed the hungarian resistance in downtown Budapest. And they were. They were basically. They'd done away with some Russians, and Russians weren't happy about it. And that's what you're talking about is when they came back and just.

[13:59] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: They came back.

[13:59] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: They came back and reclaimed it.

[14:01] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And I don't know all the history of that, but I don't think it went well. But.

[14:05] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But your father was there to witness that.

[14:07] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: My dad was there to witness it and told all about that. And.

[14:10] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And then I told you, I had met. I had a friend that lived in Dothan. He was Hungarian. And he said, as a boy, his. His history was that his father had been a nazi sympathizer. And when the Russians came in. His father was murdered, you know, at the end of World War two.

[14:27] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Right.

[14:28] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And he said, my mother and I had to flee the communists. And they. I think it's a bridge at Andau which I may be wrong. I'm not sure if I'm right on my history, but there was. I think it was known as a. There's a novel or story written about it called a bridge too far. That was worth. But he said, we literally fled for our lives from the communists on this bridge, leaving home.

[14:53] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Well, that was the Nazis, World War two, bridge too far. The movies.

[14:56] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Oh, well, then I'm confusing it. I might be confused in a little bit, but he was actually hungarian and had to flee the communists.

[15:03] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Well, the point was, I was making about my father, and I'm glad I remembered this, is that jump forward to. What was it? When did the wall come down? When they said, you know, Gorbachev, take the wall down and all that. And then everyone seemed to think in this country, or a lot of people seem to think that, oh, you know, the cold war is over and the Soviets have gone away. And my dad used to say, those people, they think that the Russians are going to play fair. He said they're smoking the peace pipe with some kind of funky tobacco in it, because the Russians will never play fair. And I thought a little bit of my daddy as being not a war monger, but, I mean, he was a West Point graduate, and I thought, well, he's so conservative that maybe he's a little ridiculous. Well, guess what. Look who is right.

[15:40] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah. Look who was right.

[15:41] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: My dad has been dead for 15 years now, and the Russians just invaded Ukraine. And it's just amazing that he said so many things that he said were right. And he said, we should never let our guard down with those people. Anyway, more to a cheerful subject.

[15:55] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Well, I just wanted to, but I'm glad you got that. And is that a picture of him?

[16:00] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: That's a picture of my grandfather.

[16:01] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Oh, let me see.

[16:02] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I've never seen military uniform in World War Two. And he was called Colonel Hayes. He. He came back to Mobile.

[16:08] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: That one, too, is the other picture of him, too.

[16:09] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: That's him when he was a businessman. He worked at the Merchants National bank of Mobile for, I think, for 50 years, aside from his military deployments. And that's a plaque. What does it say? George A. Hayes, in recognition of 25 years of faithful service. And that's merchant's national bank. And that was presented in 1954.

[16:28] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Okay.

[16:29] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: So, you know, he, I think, finally probably quit the bank in 1970.

[16:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Well, he was a handsome fella. Yeah, he was a good liquor.

[16:36] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Don't know what happened to me, but.

[16:40] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: I'm gonna hate that one. Needs. That needs to be restored.

[16:44] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: But this is kind of a funny story, and I'm glad I brought as a cue. She's probably wondering, but this cup where he graduated his school of commerce, first in his business class at University of Alabama. My grandmother gave this to me and she said, she was so funny. Now, that's Kathryn Cook Hayes.

[16:59] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And she. Let's tell what she did.

[17:01] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And she started the maids of mirth in Mobile in the spring of 1949, which is. So she started the first women's Mardi Gras.

[17:08] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Mardi Gras.

[17:09] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And she was a character. She designed all the floats for Mardi Gras. And a lot of people don't know, but Mardi Gras originated in Mobile, I have to say that. But the origin, mobile, Mardi Gras, daddy was a double om and was actually king in 1960. And I didn't partake in much of Mardi Gras festivities, but daddy was deeply immersed in it.

[17:30] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But what are you going to say?

[17:32] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: What I have to tell you about this is that my grandmother, she was. Cook was her name, but I call her Cook. You know, she was a funny lady. And when she gave me this cup where he. When he. When he graduated from Alabama, she kept. There was a plastic bag in it. She said, you know how to polish silver? This was your grandfather's loving cub from Alabama, and he was so proud of his classmates graduating. She said, I want you. Do you know how to polish silver? And I said, yes. And she said, well, the polished instructions are in here. And she must have reminded me three or four times. Well, the joke was on me. I never opened the bag. Well, I finally opened the bag one day after, like, 20 something years after she had passed away. And I thought, okay, here's the polishing instructions, right? Well, I opened it up and I look at the piece of old, like, fine paper in here, and it is written, I don't know who's writing it says, dear george and dear Dan. George and Katherine. So my dad had, the youngest brother was Daniel Ogden Hayes, and then Katherine Hayes was my aunt. And she was married to a blackshear mobile, the government street lumber company. Mobile. But it says, just a note to tell you that I had dinner with your daddy, and he's a great guy, and don't you ever forget it. And it's dated January 29, 1945, in Germany. And it was ve day victory in Europe day. And it said, sincerely, something. Amos and Roddy. Amos or something and Andy, something. I don't know. And that suddenly occurred to me. That's Amos and Andy of the Amos and Andy radio show.

[19:17] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right?

[19:17] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Were with my grandfather. My grandfather was in his class, a.

[19:20] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Uniform, Amos and Andy. And it's.

[19:23] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Isn't that funny? And all those years she didn't tell me what was in there. She told me that was polishing instructions. So the joke was on me.

[19:29] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: It says, amos. I can't read the last name. Boston and Andy Corral.

[19:34] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: If you remember, there was the Amos and Andy radio show during. When people would turn into the radio show during the war. That was Amos and Andy.

[19:41] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And this is from, you said 1940.

[19:43] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I think it was a New York syndicated radio show. I can't remember what it. But it was a way.

[19:49] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And then this is funny. She wrote on here for Allen, papa's loving cup from. It looks like from Alan, from Ala. But this is written on some kind of type. This just looks interesting.

[20:08] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Well, it was just funny because she.

[20:10] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: No, I mean, if this is a whole other story, I don't know what that is, but it's some sort of.

[20:15] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: As relevant. But I just remember she played a trick on me.

[20:17] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: She just used that as her note.

[20:19] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah. And that was supposed to be. Write silver polish instructions. And it was actually, you know, a note from Amos and Andy and on that same day.

[20:25] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And she never told you. You just never even looked.

[20:28] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And I don't even have a picture of it here. But there was a picture.

[20:31] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Put it in the middle.

[20:32] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Don't worry about it. But we're getting all these paper noises for the microphones. But. But anyway, what's funny about it is that there was also a picture of him with Cary Grant, that same. You remember Cary Grant, the great actor? And he was there in the same victory in Europe day.

[20:49] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: So where. Okay, so he was in Europe. Where was the VE day celebration that.

[20:55] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Says Germany in 1945. But that's all I know.

[20:59] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And you don't know which, because I. One of the interviews I did and when I was in Dothan was with someone that was. That liberated what was sent in as a. As an observer at Auschwitz. When they liberated Auschwitz. You're not sure which camp he was.

[21:16] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I know what you're referring to. You're referring to what Ike said.

[21:19] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: No, no, no. I'm just. I'm just saying that's. I wondered if you knew. You said that your grandfather was at one of the camps.

[21:29] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah, definitely. One of them is not.

[21:30] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But you're not more than one?

[21:31] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I'm not sure. Dachau or Auschwitz? I think it was one or not both.

[21:35] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Okay. Yeah, but he didn't. I'm sure. Talk about that.

[21:38] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: He did not talk about that.

[21:40] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right. And the man that I interviewed did tell me a little bit about it, but it was. That's another story. But let's go to something lighter. Let's tell the funny story about your dad when he was Mardi Gras King.

[21:54] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Oh, you want to talk about that?

[21:55] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah.

[21:56] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: So daddy was king of Mardi Gras in 1960. I never really partook in it, but he was also in the court as a. As a kid. So there's a picture in mobile magazine.

[22:05] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Let me see that.

[22:05] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: The 1920s or something, riding afloat as a child.

[22:09] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: So this is when he.

[22:10] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I'm sorry. 1930s. What am I saying?

[22:11] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Was he a page?

[22:12] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Yeah, he was a page on the float. And then.

[22:14] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And for people that don't really know about Mardi Gras, basically families in Mobile are involved in creating a royal celebration every year. And so you have King Felix and you have. I don't remember what we call the queen. What do we call the queen? I just remember the king is always Felix.

[22:41] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: King Felix, third. Yeah.

[22:43] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But this has been tradition since the 18 hundreds. And it's always fun to see who's going to be, what children are involved, what teenagers, what, everybody at different levels. Because you have.

[23:01] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Cut to the chase. I know what story you want to tell about.

[23:04] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Okay, well, the white. Let me just say the queen.

[23:06] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: That could have been my mother.

[23:07] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: That's what you want to say? Okay. Men may bond over sports, but my grandmother and I bonded over the pages of the newspaper every year. She would save the pages that showed who was. Because the girls make their debut, and those ladies are part of the court. They're the Mardi Gras court. And then one of the ladies that's made her debut becomes the queen. And then you name a king and you have this. It's just a fun, festive thing, but we always loved it. We always loved to see who was doing what and who was involved and how beautiful the dresses were, and it tells about how they create their costuming. And. Anyway, when I was younger, I remember my mother saying it was. There was just kind of a story, kind of a scandal, because handsome George Hayes, who had been Mardi Gras king, didn't marry the woman that was his queen. And everyone just expected that, right? So tell. So tell.

[24:08] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I asked my daddy, I said, what happened to that one? She told me, he goes, she was almost your mother, son. I said, well, you know, so my grandmother, my grandfather at the time I had been talking about, he was running the merchants National bank. He was vice president. So they were kind. And he was on the city board of Mobile, and he did all these civic duties. So they were pretty involved in a community of mobile, old mobile. And then, of course, my grandmother started the maids mirth, and she was really in the women's side. Yeah.

[24:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Because she started the women's at the club and all that parading society.

[24:38] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: She started in spring, in 1949, the maids of mirth. So they were all heavily involved. So, you know, it's kind of like one of those foreign things where they set somebody up with, you know, we set your son up with your daughter or one of those kinds.

[24:49] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah.

[24:49] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: So, you know, it was supposed to be, I guess, like the marriage of my father and this queen. And so I said, well, what happened with that daddy? He said, well, he said, I just don't like taking instructions from a woman. I said, or so I said, what? What do you mean? And he says, he says, well, she told me at the end of Mardi Gras she said, marry me or else. And he said, really? And she said, marry me or else. He said. He said, I take or else. He so apparently told her or else. Then he married, met my mother and married her. So I guess he just decided he didn't want to be.

[25:24] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: He wasn't taking instructions.

[25:25] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: He wasn't taking instructions. He wasn't going to be like a dog in the corner. He was just going to fight his way out. I don't know who the truth of all that.

[25:33] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: It was just funny and mobile.

[25:34] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Funny story and mobile.

[25:36] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah.

[25:36] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: People knew because they were all kind of surprised that they didn't go on to get married.

[25:40] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: It was kind of. I mean, it is, it's a, it's a. It's a port city. It's very diverse. I mean, one of the things I love about mobile is that we had so many different kinds of folks here. And I guess growing up here, you know, I had neighbors that were lebanese. I had, we had, we were very presbyterian, but we had catholic neighbors. We had, you know, I had jewish friends that I went to school with. So we kind of had. We had a diverse group of. Just because it's a port city, you had people coming in from all over, and it made it an interesting town. But mobile also kind of had its small town ways. And you did, in a way, you felt like you knew a lot of people you knew everyone. And it was really kind of an odd mix of international input. And I. Small town or. I don't know, maybe we never really were a small town, but. But there is a little bit of that aspect to it. And, you know, when our parents, your mother and my mother went to Murphy High School, when they were at Murphy High School, they knew everyone at that high school. I mean, they. And they had a big group of girls that they were friends with. Murphy was the only high school, for instance, people loved Jimmy Buffet. Well, his. The man that helped him create what he did musically and in business was Milton Brown and Milton Brown's sister. My best friend's mother, Lynn Brown, was right, was good, good friends with our moms. And so you had a lot of different interesting input of people in mobile. I don't know that that's the best way to explain it, but I don't.

[27:26] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Know if you have enough time. But I wanted to say something quick about my grandfather, too, but that was amazing, jumping a little bit forward. He went to school when he was at Alabama with Senator Sparkman, and he was a center from Alabama. And there's pictures of center of Sparkman with Wernher von Braun, the father of NASA. And I have little doubt in my mind that Werner von Braun, I mean, that Sparkman had to get, probably helped get Huntsville, the NASA in Alabama. It was probably very influential in that.

[27:55] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: But there's a picture, you're saying, in bringing NASA and having it back to Alabama.

[27:59] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: But my grandfather was friendly with Sparkman. And after the war, in 1957, Sparkman wrote a letter to a major general in the army supporting my grandfather, that he wanted to go back to visit his fallen men that served under his command at the D Day beaches. So they actually deployed a military plane. I don't know if you could even do that today in 1957, to Brooklyn Field and my grandfather and my father and my uncle and my aunt. And he took his entire family to Europe for two weeks on the government bill so my grandfather could view the graves at Normandy and all of his fallen men. You know, like the beginning of saving private Ryan.

[28:40] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right?

[28:40] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Exactly like that. He went over there to photograph it and to make sure that the graves were done properly. And my family got to enjoy a little vacation on it, too. But I just thought that was the ladder. It was such a tribute that Senator.

[28:53] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Sparkman recommended my grandfather, you know, I never thought about.

[28:58] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: So I'll read it real quick. I know we're running out of time, but it says, the bearer of this letter is Colonel George A. Hayes, to whom it may concern, is from United States Senate. So Colonel Hayes plans to visit best Europe during the spring of 1957. It is particularly desirous of visiting. He is particularly desirous of visiting various United States cemeteries in order to see and photograph the graves of some of the men who were under his command during World War two. Colonel Hayes is an old friend of mine. We were college students together. I have had close association with him since college days. He was a fine military man, and he is a fine businessman. Colonel Hayes is worthy of every consideration that can be shown to him. I gladly recommend him, and I express the hope and desire that any assistance or courtesy that can be extended to him will be. I shall personally appreciate such action, and I know that he will. And that was written by John Sparkman, United States senator. So they got my grandfather to fly over to see the graves of his fallen men, and it's just. I just want to say that about the great. He was part of the greatest generation. He truly was.

[30:04] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: And I wish I'd gotten to meet him.

[30:07] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: I wish I had. But he was a sweet old man, too. I want everybody to know that. I wish there was more people like that in the world.

[30:15] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: I know. Well, I'm glad that you would come over and do this. I know we tried to pack a lot of information in at one time, and, I don't know, there's so many stories.

[30:24] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: It's ridiculous. But those are the main thrust on veterans day that I want.

[30:27] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Well, but your family had so many different. You know, they got to be involved in the frivolity, but they were also involved in the commerce. And like you said, your grandfather was involved in saving this country and also saving the country.

[30:44] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: And like I say, it's important to be nice. It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice, but be strong in the meantime.

[30:50] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Right?

[30:51] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Don't let down your guard.

[30:52] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: That's true. And I, coming from having learned this past, what, within the past year, been talking to my father before he died, that my grandparents were from Ukraine and that they left because of Stalin, because they were either going to die at his hand or be the generation going forward. I am very grateful to be in this country, and I'm very grateful that my grandparents, that I never met made it to this country, made it out.

[31:23] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Not many places to run to if it fails here.

[31:26] JODY KAMENS HARPER HARPER: Yeah. Well. So let's keep this strong.

[31:28] GEORGE ALLEN HAYES: Keep it strong. Be nice, but keep it strong. Thank you, Jodie.