Gouri Johannsen came to the US to study. Her path to romance and marriage was not as her Indian Hindu family planned! -Thompson Reichert

00:02 My name is Tom Reichert, I am in Driftwood, Texas. I am about to interview my friend Gouri my friend and neighbor Gouri about her history of marriage and arranged marriage. And today is the 22 April 2024. Gouri take it away. Tell us who you are.

00:32 Yeah, I'm Gouri and I live here in Driftwood, Texas. I am an engineer by profession. I came to this country about 30 years ago for doing my master's degree in engineering. And that's where the story starts. So I came from a very traditional family, hindu family in India. In those days, at least in my family, all my cousins, my parents generations, my cousin's generation, they all got married by arrangement, so, so the families would.

01:20 Get together and figure out, so somehow there was some choice made.

01:27 Yeah. So there is always a person who knows both families. Usually they introduce you, so they tell you that oh, so and so's daughter will be very eligible for your son and so on and so forth. So there's always a, I mean, this is 30 years ago, but now things have changed and they put a lot of ads on online for this kind of stuff, so.

01:57 But back then it was all done.

01:59 Yeah, essentially through a broker or newspaper ads too. There were some newspaper ads too, but it has to be, everything has to fit, like your religion, your sub religion, and all that stuff has to be compatible for this to happen. And so I just graduated from my undergrad degree and I had already applied to come to the states for my grad school. And my parents, though they were progressive in education, in educating us and all that stuff, they were little apprehensive to send me here by myself because I was the one of the, in fact, I was the first female graduate wanting to study abroad at that point. A lot of my cousins, my other family members, though they were highly educated, they all stayed in India. And males were like, if they were male people who started higher education, it was okay for them to come. And because I was one of the first ones to do this, my parents thought I should get married and go with my husband to the states to do whatever, you know, pursuing my education.

03:21 So do you think, I'm sorry to interrupt. So was it, do you think specifically about marriage that made them apprehensive for you to go alone? Or was it because just males did that but females didn't?

03:35 Well, I think it was a lot of things. I was the oldest in my family of the three girls, and my parents, they didn't know much about the states, although I had a couple of cousins who moved here, but they moved after they got married. Their husbands had jobs here, so they came because of that. And so for them, sending a daughter alone across. Yeah, a single daughter across, you know, so far away was in those days, they were people, but not as many as immigrants as they are now. You know, like there's people now in the last 20 years or so, there's quite a few young women and men both come for education or jobs or whatever. I. So anyway, so they had initially insisted that I find they'll find me, or we'll find somebody to me to at least, even if I'm not going to get married, at least have that, you know, somebody who's living here who can be like, if I need something. So they tried to introduce me to a few people, but luckily we didn't have much time to have any stuff set up. So again, I should give credit to both my parents because they did value education. And so say they saw that this is what I wanted to do, and they did not stop me from coming here. I mean, they would have liked me to come with somebody to be there and stuff. But eventually it worked out. I had met some other young women coming from India, so we kind of entered to the same university as me. And so we met and discussed where we going to stay and all that stuff. So that assured my parents a little bit more. And so I came and went to Texas A and M and did have very good first year. And in the second year, I met my future husband, who is not an Indiana. Let me back up.

05:50 So the first year you lived with other Indians?

05:54 Yes.

05:55 Now, just coincidentally, did they, what happened to them as far as. Did they end up in traditional arranged marriages or.

06:05 So I had. In fact, we started off with four roommates. It was a small two bedroom apartment we found. And again, being coming from overseas and, you know, you have very limited resources, so you have to do what you can. So. And then eventually we all got some campus jobs or research assistantships, so we had some money. And so one of them actually moved away to a different university. So we had three. Three roommates left. We all really were, became good friends. And I think one of them married another person that we met there. And the third one did have a. No, she's indian. The third one did, I think, a traditional, but she. A traditional marriage. Marriage. This was after we all graduated and moved away. So I know afterwards that happened, but.

07:11 Okay, back to your second year.

07:14 Yeah, so end of my first year, actually, it was kind of after my first year was over in the second year, it's a two year master's degree. And in the second year, I just happened to be sitting in the big, in the lobby of our engineering building. And then this guy approaches me and just asks me for my name or something. And I told him I was, like, very taken aback because why is he asking me my name? And just out of nowhere, so I thought, maybe he's one of these clubs or something. He wants me to become a member or whatever. It's something he wants to sell, maybe. So I did. But he was very pleasant. I told him what it is, and he asked me what I was doing here, and I said, I'm doing my master's degree in electrical engineering. And he said, oh, me too. And we started chatting. It turns out that we both had classes at the same time, but next to each other. So we walked up to our class and we just chatted. And then. So. And that's it. I forgot about that whole episode. Like, in a few. A couple weeks later, I got an email from him. In those days, we just. Email was only available still for students. And it's a really new thing. I didn't actually recognize who we was and everything. I just ignored it. And so it just happened that he pursued a few times before I realized that this is the guy that I met in the lobby. So I just. I didn't die. It's just an email. I didn't even know. Well, anyway, so long story short. And we went. We had a couple of cups of coffee a couple times and, and so on and so forth. So we started liking each other, hearing about each other's stories. And he is from South Africa, and he also came to the states to do his masters in electrical engineering. And. But anyway, so I just, I didn't think too much about it. It's just nice to hear from someone out, you know, from a different country. So we were kind of. But at some point, I think he felt there's. It can go somewhere further. And. And I was certainly not in that timeframe, I mean, my frame, but because I felt like my parents sent me with the trust to finish my education and not get distracted with other things and stuff. So I was really very focused at that time. And then my roommate, he said she kind of encouraged me, so. Okay, so there's nothing wrong with just being friends without somebody else. Go to whatever. And so we used to go on walks and all that stuff. So we kind of, it started, you know, I could also feel there was something more here, but at that same time, I was going back to India for a visit because it was about a year and a half and Christmas was coming and I had a big break, so we had already, I had already planned that trip. And so this was all happening just about two or three months before that trip, so. And anyway, so we did like each other quite a bit. And then I was really conflicted. I didn't think it was going to go anywhere. Obviously, with my background, I didn't think my parents could even understand this and stuff. So I went to India, but I was there for a month, and in that month, I got three letters from Tom So I was really taken aback. I didn't expect anything. And anyway, so I didn't tell my parents anything about it because I wasn't sure what it was. But.

11:11 Did they see the male?

11:13 Oh, yeah, they did. They did. I mean, no, they didn't. They thought it was some, you know, you know, my sisters, I, you know, they asked me who it was and I told them who it was, but I didn't really know what it was, you know, at that point, you didn't.

11:29 Know what to think of it yourself.

11:30 Yeah, I didn't really know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I came back a month afterwards. I came back to campus, and then initially I was on that whole flight, I was thinking about whether I should even contact him because I don't know where it's going. But eventually when I got here, I said, it's not fair. I should actually tell him I'm back. So I did. A couple days later, I emailed him immediately. Like, in within an hour, he came to see me. And he was little worried that I might have gotten married already because he knew about this. The whole.

12:16 While you were there for that Christmas or vacation time, was there any day, like, hey, Gary, come on.

12:23 Yeah, there was a lot of talk about, you know, how are we going? But I always said, no, let me finish my degree. I didn't want. In the meantime, my parents were kind of introducing me to some guys who are here, like, who's been, who were working here or studying here. And so there were times when somebody would call and I would chat with them. But anyway, so eventually when I came back and I knew that it was more than, you know, just, this is going someplace, but I didn't know what to do, but any, anyway, so we spent.

13:03 So he contact. He comes to see you immediately?

13:07 Yeah, yeah. So we had, you know, the rest of the semester or a year left. You know, we just were getting closer and but, and then I got a job. I graduated a few months before him because I started earlier than him. So I got a job in California and I moved there and we still kept, he was still finishing his thing. And then at some point, at that point I had to tell my parents. So I had, okay, since this is getting serious because he had actually proposed to me in the meantime. And then, so I had, I wrote a long letter to my parents and was obviously, it was a radio silence for a while, so I didn't know what to do. And there was a lot of back and forth. I don't remember all the details now, but I know that it was a period of very uncertain time. Uncertainty because, you know, both sides. I didn't want to lose my family or I didn't want to lose my future husband. I mean, at that point we were very short. We want to be spending the life together. And so anyway, so, and then I told them about, about him and I want to get married to him and all that stuff in my letter. So we had a lot of back and forth. Them telling me one of the things they emphasize is marriage in itself is quite hard. There's a lot of obstacles to come in your way. And now if you add a cultural differences and all that stuff to it, you don't know, I mean, how it's just adding more to it. And so that sage advice. But I felt at that time, being young and stuff like that. Oh, but they don't, they don't know the person. They don't, they're not so exposed to the other side of this culture or whatever. So it's something that they're talking, they're saying that because they're afraid of the unknown and stuff like that. So anyways, but any, it just happened. Then I was living in San Diego and then Thomas figure had got a job in San Diego as well later after he graduated, so he moved there as well. And then I was still having a lot of discussions with my parents, but.

15:44 Over the phone or mail.

15:47 Mail and phone. Yeah, those phones were expensive overseas those days. And so, and then I was supposed to go back to India for another visit. And this, this time, I knew it's going to be a tough one, this, I better be ready. Yeah. I knew this is going to, of course they're unsure. They're thinking the same thing. Yeah. This is our chance. Yes. Yeah. So anyway, so I go there and then nobody brings up the subject for a few days and we, nobody talks about it. It's like eventually, yes, eventually we talk about it and then they're not happy about, they said, no, we're not happy about this. This is not what we expected of you and all that stuff. And it's not just my parents, but I think they also had a lot of pressure from, you know, my grandparents, my, and then uncles and aunts, the external family, because family units are fairly close knit. And so there's a lot of things. And then I remember all my uncles and my grandmother and everybody telling me, this is not, it's not going to work out. This is not a good idea. And so there's, there's all kinds of, you know, trying to brainwash me about how this is not a good idea. Anyway, so this is my dad's older brother. So he, he has, was he the oldest, oldest of. Oldest, right. He's usually looked upon and, you know, his advice is taken seriously. So my dad's oldest brother, he's got, he's come to the states several times and his daughters live here, so he's, he's a bit more exposed to it and, but just without even that, he's a little bit more, I guess, open minded about stuff. And so he kind of told my, he told my dad, look, she's independent now. She doesn't depend on you for financial stuff, and she can do, she's got a good job and she can do whatever she wants. You know, it's better if you give her your, you know, blessing and let her. So I think that helped my dad to also think about it. You know, he felt like he had some support within the family as well. So anyway, so he was like, he.

18:20 Was really probably more than anybody, right? More. You felt like more on your side, right?

18:27 Yeah, I didn't know that. I knew only about their conversation much later. So at that point, I didn't know that I wasn't there when they had that. That was after my trip. I came back, you know, and I came.

18:38 But you saw him?

18:39 Oh, yeah, I did see him. I did see him.

18:42 How did he approach you?

18:43 How did he, well, he just, I don't remember the details, but he asked me what, what's going on and all that stuff he wanted to know. He, it didn't sound like he's completely supporting me at that point. I think he was trying to understand if I really. Yeah. He was also questioning me, what am I doing? Is this, are you sure? And what, and kind of stuff, you know, he was so, he was really.

19:06 It sounds like he was really being pretty open minded about the whole thing.

19:09 Yeah.

19:10 He was able to see all signs and really trying to just do what seems best for you. Yeah, well, of course they're all doing what's best for you.

19:19 Yeah, yeah.

19:19 But from their point of view.

19:21 Exactly.

19:21 His point of view is a little bit different.

19:23 Yeah, he. He didn't. Well, he. For him, he didn't see it as. As something. I mean, it's not always bad, you know, to be, you know, like this. He didn't think it's a really that bad a situation. And so the other thing that helped my parents, I think my dad is at that point, I was actually renting a room in this. This american family in San Diego. When I moved there, I was looking for housing, and they happened to have extra room, so I rented in their house, and we became very good friends. I mean, they almost adopted me into the family, and they would take me to treat me as another daughter. So it was really nice relationship. And my parents, you know, when I would update them about the marshalls, how they helped me, so my parents had a good regard for them. So. And then at one of the times when Thomas came to visit, they also met him and liked him a lot. And my dad, when he was going through all the decision process or what should I do? Kind of thing, he talked to the Mister Marshall and he gave him all the input, saying that, yes, he's a good, good guy. Yeah, so he's a good guy and all that stuff. And so.

20:45 Because otherwise they had no.

20:47 Right. Exactly. They have never met him. Yeah, right. So when Mister Marshall also said, you know, yes, he's a good guy and he'll be the right person and stuff like that. So I think all those things helped with my parents coming to the edge And so eventually they said, okay, will be fine with it. And so we set a date and they made plans to come. And once they made that decision, it was just. They turned 180 degrees, and they were, like, totally enthusiastic. They wanted to have. Be part of the wedding, and they were buying, preparing for the wedding with all these gifts they were bringing over. And so we had a nice hindu wedding. And then on the Tom side, his parents lived in South Africa at that time. And they have met me before because they came on a trip before, and then. So. But. And then they were. They were wanted a catholic wedding. So we had both a hindu wedding and a catholic wedding to please our parents. And it was. It was a. I would say it just was a nice culmination or ending to this whole saga of coming there and it brought everybody together, and I think the parents got along well, and even though there's cultural and language barriers, I think it still was a nice. Because both sides. My. My dad is an engineer, and Thomas dad is an engineer, so they had a lot of these kind of background, you know, like, in there. And so it was. Yeah, they speak English, but it's. It's still. His parents are fluent in English, but there's an accent difference, and so there's a little bit of, you know, not so confident, and they think they can't communicate, but generally, it all went up when very well, and I think we had a great. Everybody had a great time. And.

23:03 And you've been married how many years?

23:05 28. We just had our 28th anniversary last week. Thank you.

23:12 So. So you're. Once your parents decided, okay, we accept this. Since that time, was there ever any hint that life, oh, this was a bad idea, or they've been.

23:29 No, in fact, it's the other way around. My dad told me I couldn't have done any better. He came out and told me he's.

23:36 And when was this?

23:37 This was a few years ago, I think one of the trips, we went to India together, and he said, I've done really good job finding husband. And it was. He was very, very happy. I mean, they've always been very happy, even from the first time they met. Met him. And in both sides, they were both, you know, both my parents and Tom were trying to understand each other, and, you know, they really put effort into really knowing each other well and stuff.

24:09 Was there any similarity with his family about wanting somebody to be more, I don't know, culturally similar?

24:23 Well, I don't know, totally, but I think, yeah, they might have. They have. They did not say anything while we were dating or even when we got engaged. I think they might have had some issues when we said, I don't know for sure, raise our kids as Catholics, because, you know, we both were pretty much our. It's coming from different religions. We just want to leave our kids to figure it out once they're adults. And so maybe they had some hesitancy over there, but, no, I think they've been. Both Tom and I were very lucky to have families that accepted each of us, and really, I don't think. I don't think we've had really any issues at all since then. We were totally accepted, and we have a great bonding with family.

25:27 All right. Is there anything else you want to add to the story about anything?

25:34 Well, just that oftentimes, people get stuck in their own narrow way of thinking. And if I had given up on this idea of marrying somebody outside of my, you know, nationality or whatever, I probably would have missed out on the life I'm having now. So I think it also enriched my family to the extent, I mean, they gave him appreciation for other cultures and stuff like that. So sometimes it's, it may feel like this is such a bad idea when you find yourself in the middle of all of it, but I think feeling, I mean, if you do really believe in something, pursuing it is actually a good idea. It'll bring a good result, I think. Right. I.