Ralph Walker and Jason Walker

00:01 What's today's date today is?

00:04 Today is

00:06 10th of June and Jason Walker 29 years old today is the 10th of June 2007. We are in Detroit Michigan, and I'm here with my father.

00:20 My name is Ralph Walker age. 64 today's date is June 10th, 2007 locations Detroit, Michigan and my partner is my son.

00:31 And I guess it does stuff I want to ask you about was.

00:36 Since you were at being in the Navy and everything, so you said you said you were the first black technician user ID explain it to me again. How do you say that works or run down in the Navy the Navy was always the known as the most biased service? Okay. So when I got in a 1960 it was just getting past that and but there weren't a lot of black people in scientific rates. They were we were always wants to paint the ships and operate the boats in or run the engines things like that. It's on operations department where all the the electronics was done all the electronics repair Communications things. Like this will be the first though. The biggest ship I was on was the USS Albany and it was a guided missile Cruiser. It was the flagship of the fifth Fleet then and it had the Admiral Elmo Zumwalt with

01:36 Was his Flagship. So it was a lot of lot of business on a lot of radio traffic things like that. But I was in operations Department. I was leaving Chief and my grade was E7 it was a E9 position, but they didn't have any lie, and there were very few black people in operations Department operations problems about close to a hundred people and they're only a handful of blacks in the electronics that end in operations apartment. It was only myself into other black people who were in that department and I was the first black maintenance chief that they had and but most of the time I was a military I was the first black everywhere I went because we weren't a lot of blacks in electronics. So when I went to electronic school if 60 people in the class that I was in but only me and one of the black guy most places I went I was only black and

02:35 I wanted to ask you what her what are some of your strongest memories from when you were in the military like this. You have a strong as memory. I know you how you talk about how one of the things you can you tell Ken about. The reason why you stayed in wasn't necessarily did you want to be there 20 years but because

02:54 Each time the king time for the enlistment. Where are you happy as a choice of leaving or staying I was counting my pennies and count my kids. They decide I'll try it one more time. Cuz it into what kind of job I was going to get on the outside. So I decided to stay and I wound up by the time you get to 16 years is it doesn't make any sense to get out so I won't be in 20 years. And when did you went out were you when you join I was 17 years and 4 months right out of high school. And as a matter fact, I graduate from high school to 11th and and the in 1960 and went and joined actually the paperwork a couple days after that and then by the 20th of July, I was going to airplane going to San Diego by the 20th of July get physicals and and then I'll look ministrative things you had to go through so I never got to go you mentioned before about how you went down with your friend.

03:53 Yeah, right after high school few days after I graduate from high school. That was a friend of mine. His name was Clifton and we gone fishing in Northern Tool in the suburbs around DC and at that time the the slogan for the Navy was information without obligation. So we were driving back with driving through town this big Bank building and they they had the the Navy recruiter sign out there. Cuz what if we go in and try it you know that I said, I'm not doing any military service. Always thought I was doing the Air Force and so we walked information without offer gation you can go in there. So we went in to get information without obligation and pretty soon. I was flying to California because those guys are all trained salesman and they were all down the hall the Air Force hear the Army here and rings are when you walk down the hall you might as well have to have your hand up because they're going to get you and if they see you coming down the hall and they're all trained salesmen and

04:53 We're just you know easy pickings for you. I thought you were going to join the Airforce be at a buddies. But my friend when we did join he was his idea and and he never went in they didn't take him. They took me as his idea. You get heart murmur which turned out to be not a heart murmur and so he stayed home and I went but it was his idea. Then you really have a heart murmur or no turns out he didn't have a heart attack and was he was he said he had a heart murmur could they be able to in the musical going to physical how they said he had a heart murmur?

05:24 Not have no idea about that. What did you want? How did you feel wearing the uniform? How do you feel being in there? I'm proud of this country and and I'm proud of the flag and I was proud of them took to be a military. I'm always always was always proud of military, but I never thought I would be in the Navy and I always thought it would be in the Air Force. I wanted to be a pilot and I Air Force with my with my gold buttons for the Navy and the thing was I didn't like wearing a necktie and the Navy or the neckerchief and it was open v-neck. So that was one of the things I didn't want to wear tie, but only problem is when you get to certain grade E7 you wear a shirt and tie and so you don't get away from anything you make you make up a 7 he's not he's seven and eight by eight years almost nine years. I made it twice because the first time I made it with a eight year.

06:24 Even and right at that time they came out and said you can't believe they're not giving it away in in 8 years anymore. So I had to go back and reapply and I think six months later. I reapply it took the test again and got it and by the time around how old are you in that?

06:44 I have to be.

06:47 I'd be 24 25 26 really that you were doing that by the time you're 25. That was a pretty responsible position for 25 26 cuz you got a lot of responsibility responsibility from day one anyways.

07:05 And so what what years were you you were tired and 79, right? 1979 you cuz I was I was about two or three years old and you join. Yeah. Yeah, 60 60 60 and so being that you said that you felt the way you did a being proud to wear the uniform were there ever any

07:29 Conflicts with a factor that time of the day that being that. The Civil Rights era, you know being that it's obviously wouldn't have imagined. I had the original problems. It's like what we have today on a little bit worse at that time. They were a lot of a lot of white people in all of people work from the white girl lot of white people didn't like to work for black people, but we found it in in the technical positions in a technical occupations guys little bit more intelligent and and it's the ones with an engineering who come from that, you know, what like rule areas like Farms they they are less tolerant and so have more problems with them. So I had problems with the guys who were bosun's mates who took care of the ship. I have more problems with them, even though they didn't work for me, but they asked the guy to work for me, how can you work for a black person you know and

08:29 I got thrown out of a restaurant when I am going to head to uniform and then I I would go to DC every weekend to see my parents and when I get back in the Norfolk will be like 6 in the morning and I be hungry because we traveling since midnight and I went to a restaurant to try to get a hamburger and said you can eat here. We can cook you one but you got to eat it someplace else if you needed here and you're wearing your uniform uniform and I had the problems with a few other problems like that. They were it was the problem was still there in a lot stronger than they are today.

09:04 And so

09:07 You didn't actually go to Vietnam obviously know or went don't and you I've heard you mention before that you at any point you could have gone but you didn't it just so happened that you didn't never got the number. Right? Right, right when I left I was stationed Alameda California from fifty years now. It's about 1965-66. I was I was up for orders. I was going to leave Alameda it was time for me to go to ship possibly go to the ship and I didn't know where I was going to go on. We are going to go Vietnam was going strong. I disagree with Vietnam. I didn't like Vietnam. I didn't think we should be getting our people killed in Vietnam, but I signed up and so if I got a set of orders, I would go to Vietnam and I thought my orders were going to take me to Vietnam I was gone, but but luckily I got sent the other way. I got sent to sigonella Sicily and that's why I never got to go in the Vietnam ended you ever have any problem.

10:07 That mean that you said you were proud to be out of the country proud to serve but you didn't agree with the war right just like I don't agree with what we got today and it's got a service. I'm proud of the country, but I think that we are with the wrong situation. We were then the wrong situation and if I had to go I would I would go I would give my life for this country. I try to make sure that other guy die first before I can do is the last last Last Resort. I would give my life for my country, but but not too willingly in the u.s. Do you feel like coming from your perspective dance with a lot of people make the argument that you can't that it can't be both that you can't be proud to serve be proud of your country and disagree with the war. Do you feel that that you feel that's possible? I think it's your obligation cuz you're still a citizen. You're still a citizen, but you still have to do what you have to do you sign a contract in the military you have to do what military people do but your your private concern your private.

11:07 Opinion still holes and at that time I did not did not agree with Vietnam with the way it was going why we were there and night I felt it was okay to feel that way. But if I had to go I wouldn't go to Canada like some guys did but I didn't agree with it. And so how do you feel being the military changed you grow up and made me mature quickly quickly quickly and it made me independent self-reliant. What do you think you would have been doing? I try to figure that out. I probably still would have been around TC where I was born. I I I got married at that time Parson because I was in the military that my wife your mom because I was in military just have to be in the right place at the right time. And so I would have been married probably about that time, but I don't know who I married a early.

12:07 But I can't begin to guess where I would have been had. I not gone in the military.

12:14 But you have thought about that before and I know answer. I don't know where I would have gone. I probably still would have been close to home, but I left home early and

12:24 Never really went back.

12:27 So you grew up in DC. Yeah, you could call it that I grew up until I was 17 years old and I was out so I think really had to work in the military. Really. Why do you say you didn't go up because it's not really like that because during the years I learned the most were the early years in the military. I didn't really learn a lot. I learned academics and DC when I was you know, growing up, but all my life experiences come from the military. So I think I actually really grew up in the military.

12:59 And what was your relationship like with your parents and being into living in DC? It was it was not a really good relationship. It was good. It was good. But like all things you have problems, you know, and so I was rambunctious and I was able ready to just leave town and I did you are and functions. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't didn't really like Authority that much but I didn't not like some teenagers I worked and I brought my money home and gave it to my mother but I we had arguments and you know, you get to a certain age when you want to strike out him and I did early and 17. My mother didn't like for me to go my stepfather who raised me he he was kind of different, you know, but my mother she didn't want me to go see a sign for me, but she didn't want to go but what time for me to go?

13:52 What's up? What were you like if you can you you did it so hard to imagine what you were like extremely extremely extremely shy really extremely. Shy no friends. Just shy I mean I was ridiculously shy and I've grown out of all that but I was you wouldn't believe how she died it was no friends. No, I will believe how shy you were you were because I know how shy I've been most of my life and like I said and thanks a lot now, it's not in the way of getting to know you don't touch it. Did David really really really shy.

14:31 And

14:34 What you do you eat? I've always wanted to ask you you had a nickname when you were a kid is it was bunny right by somebody in my family bought me a rabbit when I was about about the two years old and somehow I got that was a trick, you know attached to it that rabbit and somehow the nickname bunny just stuck on the me long after rabbit was gone. I don't know why he what he died cuz I used to drag him around who would have at least around his neck a lot. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. But at long after you was gone. I was stuck with the nickname buddy about how old were you when that was about to about 2 years old and to this day. There's people who still call me by me because I don't get to DC that often so I don't get to see people you don't that often but they're still to this day people call me buddy. I'm almost 65 years old. I'm 64 years old.

15:30 And so you said we were talking about you being in the military that you want to join the Airforce. That's what that's what did you decide? How old were you when you decided you want to join the Airforce? Always I when I was real young kid. I used to draw models of airplanes pictures of airplanes and and things like that yet f-86 has and B-52s cuz it had both of those around then and and I I got a hold of some copies of World War II manual on how about airplanes with magazines actually of airplanes in flight and things like that. I took Aviation when I was in high school, I went to Technical High School or College Prep High School actually took one one semester of Aviation and stayed with teacher to flirt basic basic bass Aeronautics. And so I figured I would go in the Air Force but I didn't and that's that so soundly based upon a young age. That was what you thought you were doing. Right and it was your friend that convince you to go over to the right. So therefore right and he didn't do you

16:30 Will be very different people, as they are for supposed to Navy. I don't know. I'm glad I didn't I obviously I buy it for the Navy Airforce. I don't think I would have learned this much. I don't think I would have learned as much an Air Force because I was so independent in the Navy and my I travel so widely met so many people had so many different positions. I don't think I would have gotten that for the Air Force. So I'm glad I didn't go to the Airforce but I I figured would have been the Air Force or the Navy because but the Air Force was was was always tell people now if you want to get education joined if you want to live good join the Airforce if you want to get an education do on a Navy stay away from the Army stay away from the Marines at all cost. Yeah, they took a shot at the stuff of hence. The reason why you never wanted me

17:30 601a recruited call I would tell him we don't we don't need you.

17:34 And

17:36 So also when I want to ask you about me and my wife has been trying to get me to ask you but I think I've been scared to death to get into a solo win. How old were you when you met mom I was I was Nineteen. So we got married very early. I was 19. I was still aboard the first ship that was on we had gone down to the Caribbean we came back and we went to Staten Island 424 Fourth of July open house. Then we went went down when we went back to Norfolk. I went on leave and I'm going to leave in DC and my cousin and my wife's cousin we're going together. They introduced us and we met in in in August.

18:21 And we got married in February and we were gone most of time doing that but got married in August. I think I deployed went back to the Caribbean in October and decide to get married by mail, you know talking back and forth in the mail year was it when I come back we'll get married. And so when I came back we did in February and most people gave us 6 months. Is that going to last six months? Cuz you didn't know each other long enough and has been 44 years. Now. Why do you even want how did you how did you know if it went that fast as you how did you know that? I don't know. I don't know what you would let you met her in August. Right and you were married already in February. I mean nowadays is west of people in my generation. We say like we would say the same thing as it was it was it just that just happen is you know, why does you know anything happen? It just it just happened. We just we had to write personalities and

19:21 And we just clicked and we looked at marriage is a little bit different than that it is now when you go into it, they go into it for different reasons to go into it with the idea to that is permanent commitment, but we just happened that way. I don't know what just happened and what do you think your reasons were then before what form get married to?

19:42 We hit it off. We liked each other and it we got to love each other and we didn't know what we were doing. And we do we didn't know that we never stood a chance to get married to stay married stacked against the odds are stacked against that's very badly. And that was 44 years ago. The rest is history. Now mom mentioned to me that wants that you were who acted with someone else when you met her no, no. No I had been before before that. I met a girl when I was in school and an electronic School in California that was years before and so it was way over by don't realize it was why you were the Shema job. So he's after that she was giving the impression that you be out with her at the time that was that was way before that and I wanted to marry that girl. I'm up at the time the song was you better shop around and that's what my mother kept out you better shop around but it didn't work out anyway, so I really liked was forced to shop around and didn't work out. Why didn't work out.

20:42 Don't we just didn't we just didn't hit it off now plus she was all in California and I find it by then. I was all the way on the East Coast or my ship for off the east coast and all my stations were not all of them because I went back to Alameda for a while stationed there when when your brother was born because Greg was born there in California. Was that woman your first relationship serious serious when y'all serious one, so we we we didn't know anybody else we grew up together nowadays A lot of people get married to get married. Very late when you get married late you you have a lot of habits formed and you have to break those habits will blend those habits. But when you get married very young, you don't have strong have it. So it's easier to men together, you know who took them all together and that's what we did. We didn't have any habit. So we just grew up together and formed I have it. You don't ever think that because of the argument lot of people make now.

21:42 Obviously is that when you're if you get together younger you're dumber and don't know how to make some compromises don't know how to work with the other person don't know how to deal with some of the problems that might come up in a mature relationship need to do everything that's an issue as opposed to being know we did we had arguments we had hard times like everybody, you know, everybody I have a hard time we had those we had those but but we didn't have habits to break. We didn't have our strong habits that the other one didn't like so so it was easier to to compromise in this way to do. So, is that how did you propose that I proposed to her through the this morning about that because I couldn't remember cuz it by mail and I was a real Caribbean around Puerto Rico someplace. It was by mail. It was just like it off when we come back when we get married. She's okay.

22:42 What is your what's your favorite memory of her?

22:45 A memory of her as a Navy Wife, really? I remember when I was deployed one time. I was in the in the Caribbean. I'm in Northern Mediterranean and they were living in we were living in New Jersey and Lakehurst New Jersey Toms River near Lakehurst and the toilet broke and they couldn't get it could afford to get it repaired. We can have any money cuz I was real low and you're in right then and your brother can then he was about how he was about Brandon that he's not he's about the same for all three things to do around there. They went and got a toilet and put it in.

23:24 The two of them. I told him put that in in Montpelier. Absolutely when I came back. It was a little wobbly cuz they didn't put the bolts down on the side, but but it work and and that's that was to me that was a military wife. They can do military wives talk about that all the time being that you had five kids and you would be gone 6 months at a time. If not what it was 6 months. Sometimes my first deployment to that timer 6 months and then the first before and after I get married with six months after that I wasn't gone I wasn't gone that long but I was gone more frequently when I got to the second ship. I was on the biggest one. We were gone gone three weeks out of every month.

24:12 This was this happen for old two years, but the first one was six months.

24:19 And we also talked about hard nowadays. We can't fathom. I mean I have two kids and I'm married and I can't imagine either one of us having to deal with five by ourselves for that experience that extended. Of time military wife. That was very wise they did it. They had they had groups, you know support groups, but I think she didn't belong to a support group. She knew other military wives around with it live on a military base the time but that was asked to me it was a certain breed of wife where they could do it. They just may do and it's not that anybody else couldn't do it. They had to do it. So they did it you do what you have to do.

25:01 Do you remember?

25:03 Do you remember on the time when I was born? Yeah, what?

25:08 Now that the specific question I was going to ask you about do you remember your first?

25:12 Memory of when you saw me when you first tell me how big you were really how big you were is in Portsmouth Naval hospital and I was there the same day. I wish I would deploy or anything and it must have been 3 feet across your shoulders. I did and I remembered how big you were and I think you were eight pounds in some ounces and and I think Mom told me that the average was five or six pounds so you were good size, but I to me you were huge and that's the whole always remember that

25:48 Do you remember?

25:50 When you first sign I should be a parent back with obviously my older sister Michelle when how you felt when you first became apparent. That was your first child.

25:59 I don't know. I don't know that what this is Michelle. That was I don't know what I found that out. When I was when I was in I was deployed when I was in the Mediterranean and I think it's the time that I found out. I was in the in the middle of the Mediterranean and storm. We got mail before the storm. We were out in the storm and I can mail in there was I was a father and it's not like now where you you find out, you know, now you can find out by email or whatever they are. It was weeks before you found out it was about two weeks after it happened before I found out and I never really had time to think about it really sore. Now you just your father so you better get some money for something.

26:47 And how do you how do you think being a parent has changed you? Like do you think about what it would be like if maybe you would been in the Navy all that time and never maybe never got married or maybe only had one child or never had any don't really know we went to Parenting different from a lot of the other Navy people the a lot of Navy people we had we knew the the mother worked because we were so poor the mother used it had to work but but mom never work and never work until you were just about out of the house. And of course you were the last one and and so we didn't have a lot of the things that a lot of other people had the other military people hadn't had nicer houses and and things like that but looking back it was the best thing because you had mom at home when you came home all the way until you just about got out of school and we take that as a definite plus my night. I trust me. I appreciate it. Especially being an adult not having kids of my own. I definitely appreciate what I look like

27:47 What do you think? We're that was some of the hardest parts about?

27:52 Summer hardest moments from us growing up from all of us. It was a bruise from when I was a kid with one can erect but they can get all hard racing kids. Look back when you guys have problems with your kids. I just looked back and got a Snicker they were all hard but it was the responsibility. That was the problem you had to make sure that you told the kids to write things and and and you have to make sure that you gave him a good example, like cutting the grass. I enjoy like when we were in Oak Park IL enjoy cutting the grass I could get out there and think it only just push the mower and just keep on going but I couldn't do that because I had teenage sons and I admire model was I will never cut grass with my teenage son is look out the window and watch me so they cut the grass and then finally when they were all out of the house at the cut the grass again and I'll cut the grass now and I liked it you get out there you think's fresh air, but those are the things you you had to do you have to do a lot of things you

28:52 You didn't want to do but for the sake of your kids you have to do and you'll be amazed. You do realize I actually like I don't mind cutting grass now for your brother's don't they said they don't do farming. We do enjoy working on the yard and doing a7iii me night. I definitely not a real farmer considering I buy I'm going to digital a time do all that but I like cutting the grass and I really think it comes from you making me do it. Yeah, it's it's I like it right now. I do it for the exercise because since I have artificially I have to get exercise and my neighbor across the street does grass care. You don't have one of the trucks with the mowers and stuff in it and he asked me winners. Where am I going to let him do my I said, I won't because I enjoy the exercise if I don't do this everyday I got to get on the treadmill and this is better so I can I cut grass so you won't ever cut mine at least not that I foresee.

29:52 If you could do anything different about how you raise any of us to you, is there anything you would do different?

29:59 No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think I think everything went okay. I I think I'm looking at the results. Everything went good. So now there's I I I think I might have been a little bit more compassion that I was gon hold Navy father when and no I don't want thing. I definitely would not have done I wouldn't have taken the noisemakers out of the toys and Greg was telling me they think they were traumatized because all the toys made no noise and then and you know, you softened up I think in that respect by the time I came around you do with age you do with a with a lot of that stuff you did seem to soften up.

30:44 Those kind of things you do with age, but I could take any toy and put a pair of needle-nose. I could make it quiet events this but now they just think they continue making noise. And what advice would you give me about raising my kids?

31:01 Reassure him building self-esteem and reassure him building self-esteem. Make sure that he feels good about herself. Make sure he gets education. Those are the things that he needs but self-esteem. Let him get let him get the passion aside from his mom because that's what she gives him and make him let him know that emotions are okay, you know, some people don't let their kids cry emotions are okay. So let him know that

31:36 Nothing to do a pretty good with those. You aren't trying you are. Yes, absolutely absolutely questions we had in there. I am I proud of you absolutely and one of things I'm proud of his is what kind of a father you are. So the fact that you so devoted to a merry and Amina they give you a hard time sometimes but I'm very very proud of that and I'm very proud of what you do. I'm very proud of you. So I want to get that in before we run out of time, but absolutely positively I'm very proud of you. Is there anything you ever wanted to ask me?

32:20 I don't know. I read all the questions earlier and I couldn't think of anything at Mom's. Just how did you get into what you doing really isn't in the graphic arts. How did you get into that? What does your the drawing design and everything just

32:35 Ashley's, I think I really think the same thing that you just said which I found interesting what you said about drawing the airplanes of kids and a lot of adults rather that get into art into stuff like that pictures of drawing when I was little drawn race cars drawing spaceship strong and do nothing and it just built it just it just

32:58 Snowball from now because I am one of the things I asked me what I was we were having a discussion yesterday.

33:05 Talking to you me and my brother can talking about whether kids listen when you tell them stuff and is true. I remember stuff with you believe or not. You said stuff? I remember what do you think I did or not? And you specifically one thing you did was when I I I was about eight years old and I thought I came up with I thought I had invented a levitate a train with you know that are driven by magnets and everything and I remember very specifically you told me you know, well you do, you know those exist already but he should feel proud because you're eight you can do that by yourself, you know and needs Fatima scientist to come up with that you can move that all by yourself and I remember that to this day and that kind of stuff is I think why I got into it because I

33:52 Just you just drawing those kind of things. I think I drew a picture that I drew a picture of a million things. I just kept home with it. Yeah, man, and by the time I got in the High School drama with my friends and other people asking me to draw stuff for them.

34:11 By the time I got in the college going to art school, and it just it just keeps going in it. I think it's what happens with a lot of people you find something that you enjoy and you can't help but not get away with that where you just go that way and no matter and I think it would happen. I've heard other say it to that. Even when you find yourself going a different direction, you still come back to it. Now, you know, you may go miles and miles away and you know, I had that stent right after high school where I was working for Xerox Business Services, but turn right back around and I was still back in Art and Design.

34:46 Destiny seems like if I was kind of waiting electric Electronics Electronics now since I was I took some in high school and sit and sew for 47 years now been electronic never liked it, but I took it in high school when I will join the Navy to give you a battery of tests to call the basic battery and from that determine what occupation you have for the rest of the time you're in the Navy they asked me if you know, what a resistor was. I neuter resistor was because I had to take an electronic this so I told him to correctly what a resistor wasn't that's where you'll be in electronics and the rest is history. I'm still in electronics with TRW making making key fobs and remote keyless entries tire pressure monitors and things like that. He ever think about that. Think about that the fact that you're in a line of work where you were in a line of work you're in technology or in electronics, and it's kind of sore throat.

35:46 Got in a besides the fact that you were one of the few or one of the first in yours and that I am doing something similar that I'm actually I'm definitely not one of the first but there's not a lot of African Americans in art design in the particularly web technology stuff like that. We were just never given a chance to do it in the past. But now there's more of us doing it. We're just as interested in those fields and we just as good in those fields. It's just in the past we were never allowed to do that. I was a groundbreaking because they weren't many people in electronics. They didn't let us touch the electronic things in the you know, when I was coming up, but that's the way it is. It just turned out that way.

36:31 I think about that myself. Sometimes though the same for that very same reason. I although I have to say that I think yours obviously always seems more.

36:42 You seem like you took a lot farther and I did you did a lot more than I did know. I don't think so. Another thing. I'm proud of you is how far you've gone so quickly and in your occupation you make more money than I do. Now. But how fast you came up? So no, I don't think I went further than you did. I think you're doing great. I don't think I would rather you. Did you always want you always want your son to do better than you do and you've done it at all. My kids have done it. But no, I don't think you've gone. I don't think I've ever further than you do it. I think you were gone for the already. You seemed like you were right beside you were up against a lot more sense in you. It's okay. Go ahead with I didn't I didn't have five kids. Yeah, you know.

37:35 We just we do we don't we don't take that for granted when he when me and my brothers and sisters we talked about that. We don't take that for granted that you just

37:43 All the things that you and Mom had to put up with in order raise us correctly raised us the best that you could

37:51 And not have any of us wind up dead in jail. Yeah, Wayward anything like that, you know, we need to travel a lot. You got to see a lot of all the rest of the world doesn't you didn't just grow up in a neighborhood and maybe getting in trouble with the kids in the neighborhood. We had 12 permanent moves on the time I was in so we lived all the way from Alameda to New Jersey to best way to get to Virginia and then the Memphis Tennessee, so you got to see a lot of how other people do things UK minutes until then, but but that helped that no and you learn things from your brothers and sisters so that help

38:31 Yeah, I did.

38:33 Andy long life now

38:40 Is there anything else you thought you might want to ask? No. I think we recovered it. I read over the questions and I had a set pattern. I was going to follow but we got through everything and I don't think I'm going to questions this year. It was good.

38:58 I do not know how they live. So I didn't know that about you. I didn't know some of that stuff that you went through and you learn I'm still learning. I'm still learning big time. I still learning about raising children. You never stop learning. That's one of the things that that I found in life. You never stop learning. I'm still learning about little things full face, but raising kids from you guys, and I was always writing some of the things that I died did I think I could have done better looking back on them. But but you'll always be learning and new as long as you're doing right if you don't then you got problems.