Contance G. Wright and Jordan Wright

Transcript

Transcript

Start End Speaker Transcript
4.1 9.49 JW {lipsmack} Okay I'm um Jordan Wright. I'm thirteen years old.
9.79 17.2 JW The date is December twenty eighth. um We're in Countee Cullen Library in Harlem and this is my grandmother.
17.78 24.59 CW Ohh um uh I'm Constance Wright. I'm eighty seven and a half years old.
24.99 32.34 CW Today is December twenty eighth nineteen -- two thousand seven and uh
32.74 40.75 CW I am also in the Countee Cullen Library in Harlem and eh I'm with my grandson Jordan.
43.21 45.09 JW And so where did you grow up?
45.79 53.42 CW What? uh Before I grew up I was born and I was born in Harlem and I grew up in Harlem.
54.45 62.03 CW I have lived in Harlem all of my life with little breaks here and there uh
62.17 64.18 CW in the suburbs of New Jersey.
65.78 69.66 JW Okay. What was the child like -- childhood like in Harlem?
70.04 74.78 CW Well contrary to um
76.62 82.66 CW the ideas and attitudes of people far far away from Harlem um
82.76 90.15 CW it was a rather bucolic existence. I mean we lived S- um a very very happy go lucky life.
90.6 97.48 CW uh We did all the things that you hear in all the so called idealized communities. uh We played,
97.71 105.45 CW we were taken places, we ate, um we interacted with our parents, we had
105.49 108.19 CW uh chores to do. um
108.63 116.63 CW Boringly normal in one way but V- very reassuring and happy as a child. Mhm.
116.28 121.1 JW {breath} Did you have any brothers or sisters that you grew up with that got to represent with this childhood with you?
119.02 123.05 CW I uh got -- in that case I had one brother. My brother and I
123.36 129.04 CW {cough} were the only children in my -- in my mother and father's family. And we were
129.69 136.06 CW born rather close together. Ohh he was two years older than I was {lipsmack} and
136.44 142.29 CW we went everywhere together and we did everything together so much so that nobody said Raymond
142.66 149.42 CW without saying Connie. So they all -- everybody always asked where's Raymond and Connie? Where's Raymond and Connie?
149.69 157.31 CW It was never one without the other. We were very -- we had a very close relationship. Now and again stormy as brothers and sisters
157.34 162.07 CW will do but it never lasted very long because um
162.45 167.95 CW we felt close together. We did a lot of things together maybe. uh
168.22 175.33 CW Doesn't happen nowadays. uh We went on to -- we -- we made up trips to take within the city limits
175.33 183.13 CW and we went on them together so we had to figure out how to go and come. {lipsmack} We played together. His friends were my friends
183.6 190.42 CW and it was uh a very wonderful warm intimate relationship that we shared growing up.
191.11 191.66 JW um
193.65 201.55 JW {lipsmack} um What kind of S- like you talk about what -- specifically what kind of things did you do together? Like did you go out to the pool in the summer or?
200.53 208.3 CW Well for one -- yes well now yes -- well for one thing as I can think far back -- the thing we did always
208.36 215.89 CW was go to my grandmother's house together. And my grandmother lived on a Hundred Thirty Fourth Street and we lived one a Hundred Thirty
215.99 222.79 CW Eighth Street. {lipsmack} And I can know that uh whenever we set out to go to my grandmother's house uh
223.01 230.38 CW my -- my brother was always forewarned to look out for me and to keep hold of me. That he was told to take
230.42 236.57 CW my hand but he took my neck instead and we would walk down the street with his hand
236.79 241.91 CW holding me around the neck so that I couldn't move too much to the left or to the right.
242.44 248.86 CW And when we got to a Hundred Thirty Fifth Street it was a big wide street. We were like six --
248.86 256.42 CW I was about six and he was about eight and that presented a problem but the solution was to go down into the
256.48 264.07 CW subway on one side of the street and come up on the other side of the street. And we were on our way down
264.14 271.1 CW to a Hundred Thirty Fourth Street to see my grandmother. {breath} So that was one of the things we used to do all the time because we liked to go to her house.
271.28 277.3 CW She let us romp on her couch which my mother didn't let us do and mess it up -- anyway we
277.75 285.02 CW wanted to mess it up. And then we had another -- we had a great grandmother who lived down in what is now called
285.25 292.01 CW Chelsea. Was down -- Eighteenth Street between Eighth and Ninth Avenue and
292.84 299.22 CW I don't know how my brother -- he -- my -- my -- my brother always seemed to know much more than I do -- did. He knew how to get down there.
299.36 305.31 CW And so my mother would uh review with him how we were going to get from a Hundred Thirty Eighth Street
305.31 311.3 CW down to eighteenth Street and ninth Avenue and then she would let us go as far as (())
312.37 319.32 CW And we would uh we would take the um the L then they called it. In those days on eighth Avenue
319.64 323.28 CW they had the elevated trains on -- they were on -- {breath}
323.28 330.17 CW well +basically the elevated trains were on third Avenue, sixth Avenue, and ninth Avenue but we could get a
330.61 338.7 CW um over on -- it was over on eighth Avenue that we picked it up. And uh we would take it on downtown. You'd have to change
339.02 346.91 CW to the um express at -- but my brother had the situation well in hand and we -- downtown we went.
347.09 354.79 CW And Fifty Ninth Street it would take a big wide curve to get to over this to ninth Avenue.
355.07 359.71 CW And it was wonderful train ride (()) (()) and I felt very very grown up.
360.69 364.93 JW What were your great grandmother and your grandmother like as people?
364.31 366.49 CW W- where did they live?
366.15 367.89 JW {lipsmack} As people what were they like?
367.81 374.96 CW What were they like? Well truth to tell I really didn't care for my great grandmother.
375.18 383.07 CW um She was rather um a stiff formal person. Very -- she was very tiny and she was very
383.12 390.09 CW stiff and she wore they would look like costumes today because they were long black dresses that went all the way
390.11 395.85 CW down to the floor and they had the bosoms that came out and the very wasp waist
395.85 403.88 CW and she was always very S- and the white starched collars and -- and the hair was done up and that's the way she always looked.
403.96 411.11 CW I -- I wondered if she {laugh} you know ever went to bed or changed those clothes but they were always very stiff as you see -- you eh
411.14 416.21 CW sometimes in the pictures you look at them olden times. And uh
418.65 425.72 CW sh- -- sh- -- she -- we -- we -- she was always very formal with us. She would find seats for us and we would sit down
425.91 433.59 CW and then she would ask us questions. Can you do this and can you do that? And when you get my age -- I can remember her saying once
433.67 439.19 CW when you get my age if you can do this you'll be in good physical condition and she bent over and touched --
439.43 447.51 CW touched her -- her toes. And she was in her seventies or eighties at {laugh} that particular time. I was impressed. {laugh}
447.55 453.28 CW But my other grandmother ah those kinds of she -- she -- H- my grandmother not my great grandmother
453.28 461.43 CW she was not um very formal at all. She -- and we L- we adored her. But she was not always available to us. She seemed to be
455.36 456.57 JW {lipsmack} She was loose?
461.86 469.74 CW in the other room W- working on things all the time but she came out and she gave orders and people did things for us you know.
470.2 476.52 CW They would take us to the movies or they would uh G- take us to get lunch somewhere or the other you know.
477.06 482.07 CW And she would let us stay overnight. That was the part we liked the best so um
482.49 490.83 CW {lipsmack} or else she'd fix a gigantic dinner and everybody would come and they'd -- they'd -- they'd -- they'd have little contests about how much
491.2 498.62 CW corn they -- they could eat. She would bake a -- fix a -- a -- a plate of -- of corn that seemed to go almost up to the sky.
498.81 505.11 CW And people would say ohh I can eat seven ears or I can eat -- and I couldn't imagine people that many ear- but they did.
505.11 511.1 CW You know and it was fun at the dinner table with my -- my grandmother. She was you know very informal
511.45 514.04 CW and inviting as a person. {breath}
514.04 515.9 JW What were your mother and father like?
516.8 523.07 CW Well {breath} my father was a rather formal person and my mother was very informal.
523.61 529.65 CW uh When you talked to your -- my father you minded your Ps and your Qs and your English as well.
530.29 536.82 CW And my mother well you could talk to her any way you wanted to talk to her you know {breath} but uh {lipsmack}
536.82 540.54 CW get her to do things that maybe she hadn't a mind to do.
540.75 547.9 CW One of the things we liked to do was to um in those days eat lunch in the summertime on the fire escape.
547.9 549.62 CW That was like picnicking
550.67 557.94 CW and uh she wasn't always eh +interested interested in us being out on the fire escape.
558.01 563.25 CW But we would plead with her and we'd take a blanket and lay it out there and we'd buy liverwurst
563.74 571.52 CW um and -- and eh rolls we liked. I don't know what we drank but uh we would be on a picnic
571.75 578.05 CW on the fire escape on the blanket when the sun H- had passed by that part of our uh
578.35 584.47 CW {lipsmack} our buildings. And we could even take a nap out there after -- we loved -- we loved O- out on the fire escape
584.47 588.25 CW on a -- we called ourselves being on a picnic. That's when we were very small.
589.07 593.26 JW Well do you have any favorite stories from childhood? One that really stand out to you.
593.95 600.18 CW um you mean -- you mean eh literary stories. I used -- I used to read the nursery rhymes
600.36 608.08 CW all the time again and again and again over and over and over. My mother -- at first my mother would read them to me
608.36 611.85 CW and then sh- one day she said you can read it yourself
612.64 618.49 CW so I began to try to read it myself and I know I'd be in one room and she'd be in another
618.79 623.16 CW and I would come across a word I didn't know and I would yell out to her
623.52 630.99 CW momma what does you know B_L_A_C_K spell? And she'd yell it back and I'd go on with my story. {breath}
630.99 637.13 CW Yes and so I -- I knew the nursery +rhymes er rhymes like the back of my hand backwards and forwards you know
637.03 637.41 JW Well --
637.13 641.18 CW Little Bo Peep or um um um um
641.2 647.97 CW The Three Blind Mice or you know all of the nursery rhymes that were in these books that I had.
648.42 655.06 JW And what was your favorite adventure I could say with your -- that you had with father -- I mean with your brother or any other one of your relatives?
654.15 655.98 CW Favorite adventure I had?
659.07 660.15 CW I suppose
661.27 667.21 CW adventure meaning going off by myself or adventure being -- being with my -- with -- with the adults?
666.59 669.11 JW {lipsmack} It could be with anyone. Just in general.
668.37 675.18 CW Hang on. I think the biggest thing that stood out in my child is that -- at -- in my mind as a child is when I was taken
675.2 681.83 CW to Niagra Falls because they -- we -- I think we slept overnight on the -- on -- on the train
682.2 690.3 CW on the way and then after we got there we stayed in this big house and the next day we were taken to the falls.
691.22 695.04 CW {lipsmack} We stayed in Buffalo. I don't know -- I don't know the lady's name
695.35 702.96 CW but uh she bought us these big jars -- big -- they weren't jars they were cans of peanut butter
703.35 711.13 CW W- with -- you know that you could carry. It was like a pail. And -- and it only costs five cents and it's was a +great great big pail of peanut butter
711.43 719.81 CW and it -- that she had bought each one of us a pail of peanut butter. {breath} And then I remember going to the falls and putting on the raincoats
720.35 728.51 CW and then suddenly my grandmother appeared. She met us there and we all went under the falls together with these -- with these ah raincoats on.
728.93 735.49 CW And then we got into this big car and we stopped along the way and -- and we bought um
736.17 742.39 CW there again we bought T- big tomatoes and they gave us salt -- salt and in this
742.49 748.959 CW car as we're riding we're eating tomatoes with the salt on it and I had -- these are things that I had never done before yeah.
749.6 757.4 CW So that stands out in my mind going under the falls and riding in the car and stopping and buying tom- big basket of tomatoes
757.81 760.02 CW and the lady giving us the peanut butter.
761.39 767.54 JW Was your brother the -- the one you had the strongest relationship as a child or was it your mother or father or?
766.44 770.77 CW What's -- what {breath} and I missed that Jordy. Could you tell me again?
771.47 776.86 JW Was your F- was it your brother who you had the strongest relationship in your family or was it your mother or your?
776.88 784.16 CW Ohh the -- the strongest relationship was with my brother. Yeah I mean we -- we -- we planned things and thought
784.25 788.66 CW how to get them. Or else we were told to do things together
788.88 796.09 CW and we had to work out the division of labor or the division of responsibility. {lipsmack} I remember once we were --
796.31 803.36 CW my grandmother was taking us on a boat ride {breath} eh and uh you had to get the tickets in advance
803.4 809.14 CW from the church so my grandmother gave my brother who was the older
809.74 817.11 CW money for the tickets to buy and uh we got outside and we walked half a block
817.43 823.9 CW and my brother said here you buy them and he shoved the money at me. Well neither one of us knew --
824.58 830.73 CW it turned out to be Saint Philip's Church by the way but neither one of us had ever been to Saint Philip's before
830.94 835.85 CW and we -- neither one of us wanted to go in {breath} and speak to the lady to order the tickets.
836.19 841 CW But he being the older he called the shots and he shoved the money at me.
841 848.93 CW told me I had to go in and I said I'm not going. I'm not going. {laugh} {breath} And we got to the church office and he walked on
849.1 856.54 CW to the corn- he wasn't going to {laugh} and I didn't know what to do so I finally screwed up my courage and went in and bought the tickets
856.54 858.66 CW for the boat ride. {cough}
859.71 865.09 JW What were holidays like in your family? Did a lot of people come over or what went on in general?
864.54 866.85 CW Well I -- I C- well I can remember
867.89 873.72 CW Thanksgiving. I can +remember +remember uh Thanksgiving when we went to my uncle's house
874.15 880.79 CW uh for Thanksgiving dinner. They -- and I can remember they had a big table maybe about twice this size
880.86 889.06 CW and everybody sat around the table uh for dinner and my uncle made wine during the winter. He made
889.61 897.11 CW red wine. He had it in great big vats under the sink and so that was the wine that we drank
897.16 905.55 CW for Thanksgiving dinner. And then he had a Stromberg-Carlson in those days which was an unique possession. It was a radio.
906.13 914.25 CW And after dinner was over we all sat around the Stromberg-Carlson to listen to the music or stories or whatever
914.67 921.81 CW came across. I remember that as one Thanksgiving. Christmas was al- well Christmas was always a big howl
922.18 929.36 CW because Santa Claus was a big thing in children's lives in those days and for weeks they held it over your head
929.73 937.47 CW that if you weren't good Santa Claus wasn't coming you know that Santa Claus wasn't coming you know. All straightened up and get that uh
937.68 943.73 CW back in order and at the end we didn't sleep in our own rooms
943.75 950.9 CW when it was Sant- time for Santa Claus because our rooms the -- the -- the D- you had to pass through our rooms when you
950.93 955.64 CW came into the apartment so then we got to sleep in my mother and father's bed
956.09 963.88 CW because that was the end room in the apartment and Santa didn't go into that room. So we had to sleep in there so that uh
964.34 971.85 CW um Santa wouldn't come unless you were fast asleep and we couldn't wake up and see Santa and chase Sant- make Santa go away. {breath}
971.85 978.93 CW So that was fun. We got to sleep in my mother and father's bed when it was -- and we waited and waited and waited and waited
979.7 986 CW and I remember once I fell asleep and woke up Santa hadn't come but my uncle had
986.37 993.79 CW and we had some -- we had a fireplace and the stockings were on the fireplace and my uncle had put oranges
994.24 1001.64 CW and I wondered what kind of gift was that you know. But I late- later learned that it was um a very famous Russian
1001.67 1006.23 CW custom to put oranges in -- in the children's stockings so
1006.82 1013.08 CW where -- where he had acquired it I don't know. But he brought oranges and put in our stockings and that was supposed to be a treat.
1015.13 1020.7 JW Where do you remember like going traveling internationally or in the U_S? What trips do you remember the most?
1021.76 1027.93 CW I began my international travels when I became an adult and my children
1028.05 1030.29 CW were practically grown. I didn't uh
1031.42 1036.85 CW you know I'd had my nose to the wheel before that you know working. I had to work every day.
1037.67 1044.18 CW um But I began to -- my first trip I -- abroad I would say was to Africa. I went to Senegal.
1044.97 1051.88 CW um During the Easter holidays they had what was called um the first world
1052.53 1057.53 CW African festival. And it was in Senegal I think it was nineteen sixty
1058.88 1065.61 CW three or nineteen sixty four. And all of the countries you know participated. It was for ten days. {breath}
1065.61 1073.36 CW I remember it only cost five hundred and seventy four dollars for ten days to go and the -- all meals including sleeping accommodations
1073.84 1081.2 CW and we were in these lovely lovely little huts surrounding this big hotel which was the hotel in Senegal
1081.42 1083.98 CW at that time. {breath} {lipsmack}
1083.2 1085.11 JW What was your favorite part of that trip?
1085.64 1093.35 CW The interesting part? The interesting part to me was that the trip was ten days long and I didn't sleep for ten days and ten nights. {laugh}
1093.37 1100.74 CW When I got back {breath} on that tr- or that plane I slumped in my sleep and I never budged until the plane
1100.76 1106.29 CW touched down. {breath} I was exhausted but I had a merry old time. {laugh}
1106.47 1108.51 JW Where else have you gone internationally? Is that it?
1107.35 1112.99 CW I -- and well then -- then I got G- I got to -- I got to see some historic sites too.
1113.39 1117.25 CW I don't want to make light of it all. Got to -- I got to the um {lipsmack}
1117.25 1124.98 CW eh the ports where the slaves worked were -- were transferred to an island called Goree Island and kept
1125.18 1128.99 CW until -- till the ships um um um
1130.29 1137.77 CW uh packed them on board for the transatlantic uh um tr- uh trip to the Americas
1135.44 1136.31 JW Slave trade?
1137.8 1144.89 CW here and to the West Indies right. So it was historic and entertaining as well. Well we --
1145.03 1151.42 CW because we met people from all over the world. there you know and it was much interacting. {cough}
1151.31 1153.68 JW What were your favorite movies as a child?
1154.31 1157.17 CW Well huh my favorite movies?
1158.87 1165.01 CW um The Good Earth was one I remember with Pearl Buck was a book that was about this big.
1165.61 1173.56 CW It took me forever to read it but uh I read every single word in that book. She was a beauti- I considered her a beautiful writer at that time.
1174.05 1180.311 CW um I as a younger child I read all the -- all the um ah
1181.414 1187.71 CW ohh Bobbsey Twins that's it. Every -- every -- I had to get every Bobbsey Twin book that came out and I had to
1187.74 1193.22 CW get the next book the next book the next book. So that was the -- the well you know
1193.44 1197.84 CW the series that I liked as a young child growing up. um
1199.11 1200.64 CW Other books that I liked?
1203.53 1207.71 CW Ohh there's a lot. A lot of them that their names aren't coming to me now. uh
1208.84 1209.36 CW Hm.
1210.74 1218.19 CW I remember um when I was in junior high I began to read some -- some serious books like um {breath}
1218.19 1226.07 CW uh The Gold Bug I remember having to read and uh the -- these were assigned books. These were not books that I picked out myself but
1226.16 1229.84 CW some of them were good and I enjoyed. Kidnapped I remember because
1230.12 1236.37 CW in doing -- in reading the book we not only had to read the book in school but we had to make a book report
1236.59 1244 CW and we not only had to make a book report we had to make a cover for the book report and it had to -- it had to relate to the book.
1244.48 1251.96 CW And sometimes I got so caught up in the book report I was forgetting to write -- I mean the cover I was forgetting to write the book report.
1253.57 1257.19 JW Well what -- what were about -- what about your teachers when you were younger? What were they like?
1258.22 1265.02 CW That only varied from soup to nuts as they do even today. Some are very nice and engaging and encouraging
1258.27 1259.24 JW Teachers.
1265.37 1271.39 CW and others were very strict but you could tell in their strictness that they were concerned that you
1271.87 1278.1 CW learned a certain body of work and they -- they were there to see that you learned it before you left their care
1278.55 1287.26 CW and then there were some who were indifferent and then some who were prejudiced. I mean you -- you -- you ran the gambit of teachers in school.
1287.61 1291.65 CW And you made your adjustments uh as they needed to be made.
1291.97 1295.65 JW Remember any of their names or what they did or any of their traits?
1294.36 1297.93 CW Well I can remember my favorite teacher
1299 1305.59 CW uh as -- what happened early on is that my brother started school before I started school.
1306.11 1310.45 CW But when he started school I wanted to go to school too. And it was right
1311.41 1315.15 CW near here hund- uh hun- um a hundred thirty fifth P_S eighty nine.
1316.14 1322.94 CW {breath} And my mother would take -- we would take H- took him to school and I clung to the -- to the -- to the
1323.08 1326.27 CW teacher's skirts and asked her could I stay? Could I stay?
1326.5 1333.23 CW And every once in a while she let me stay even though I {laugh} I didn't belong in school. I was only four or five years old in
1333.23 1338.73 CW kindergarten she'd -- that's -- I mean that's how relaxed things were and then she'd let me stay for the day you know.
1339.06 1345 CW Her name was Miss Gluck I'll never forget that and I said I was going to be a teacher when I grew up just like Miss Gluck.
1346.47 1348.09 JW {cough} {lipsmack} M-
1347.3 1350.19 CW I was. {laugh}
1349.56 1351.48 JW Where did you teach as a teacher?
1351.97 1356.61 CW Ohh boy as a teacher ah I have taught
1357.71 1365.77 CW um well I student taught in the kindergartens and then I taught first, second, third grades
1366.95 1368.43 CW and then I taught
1369.49 1372.01 CW fourth and fifth. I never taught sixth grade.
1373.01 1376.8 CW And then I became an assistant principal.
1378 1379.5 CW And then I taught teachers.
1380.5 1383.2 CW {lipsmack} Okay um
1384.17 1387.11 CW and uh at that point I was uh
1388.04 1393.62 CW in charge of -- it was in a junior high school and I was in charge of the mathematics for the school.
1394.59 1402.39 CW So I had -- I had charge of the mathematics teachers and the curriculum in mathematics in the school. {breath}
1401.82 1404.75 JW Was math your favorite subject as a kid when you were going to school?
1404.19 1407 CW {lipsmack} what was my F- M- my F-
1406.05 1408.48 JW {breath} Was math eh was math --
1407.66 1415.58 CW The fav- my favorite math subject was algebra simply because we had an algebra teacher who kept your feet
1415.59 1422.02 CW to the fire. There wasn't any way to get away with not doing all of your homework.
1422.36 1426.52 CW We had I remember one, two, three big boards
1426.96 1432.02 CW and as we came in -- and those boards were divided into small segments just big enough
1432.02 1439.77 CW for uh one person to put one problem. And as we came in she called names and she filled up all of those boards
1440.9 1449.18 CW uh and you had to do the next problem, the next problem, the next so -- and they went over every problem that you put up on the board and you had to explain it.
1450.09 1455.95 CW By the time she finished every child in the class had -- had been at the board and she had seen their work.
1457.16 1465.42 CW And uh there was no getting away because you never knew which one you were going to be called up to do so every night you had to do all of your homework
1465.48 1467.25 CW and I thought that was pretty cunning of her.
1468.55 1473.78 CW And I learned algebra {laugh} to boot. {laugh} {breath}
1470.88 1477.44 JW {breath} {breath} What was your favorite grade when you were going to school? Like your favorite grade in --
1478.15 1479.49 CW My favorite grade?
1480.52 1488.55 CW I think my favorite grade was kindergarten because I loved the teacher and not only that she engaged the parents and I remember once
1488.55 1496.66 CW she gave a concert for the -- for the parents after school and each parent had to do something and I volunteered my mother to sing and she nearly
1496.71 1504 CW killed me. {laugh} Sh- because she used to sing in the choir in church so I knew she could sing.
1504.2 1505.5 CW She told uh
1506.62 1511.7 CW she did it but boy when she came out she said don't you ever do that again. {laugh}
1512.09 1519.82 CW {breath} But they -- they -- they had teas for the parents you know. They not -- the parents -- the parents had to entertain them. That one was my favorite, kindergarten.
1520.02 1522.61 JW What were your sons like when they were growing up?
1524.37 1526.25 CW Piece of work. {laugh}
1527.79 1533.08 CW They were very, very different. Jeff was -- is a loner
1534.01 1541.43 CW and Je- Keith was and is very gregarious. He has to have people around him.
1542.88 1543.65 CW uh
1545.03 1552.3 CW Although Jeff would suffer one friend um but you never knew eh W- he -- he was an oddball.
1552.31 1556.88 CW You know you never knew -- one friend he chose um
1558.33 1559.23 CW the parents
1560.65 1568.59 CW were dumb. They could not speak so it was -- it was difficult communicating sometimes with them in order to make dates for the children
1568.72 1573.13 CW to get toge- for the two boys to get together. And uh
1575.23 1581.37 CW the other boy something was -- something was about him that was different.
1581.7 1588.79 CW He was sort of an oddball in his family. I would consider Jeff an oddball and he always had oddball friends.
1591.03 1592.17 JW Did they fight a lot?
1594.2 1601.72 CW um Not -- well the uh I -- I wouldn't say they fought a lot. I would say Jeff picked on Mike a lot.
1601.72 1606.34 CW I mean picked on Keith a lot because Keith -- there was six years difference between them
1606.93 1613.85 CW and Jeff as a little boy had used to always say to me he wanted a brother. He wanted a brother.
1614.09 1622.2 CW But then when Jeff -- when Keith was born he would ignore him or else he W- he would -- he -- he wouldn't treat him very nicely
1622.59 1629.14 CW and so once I sat him down and I said now Je- Keith -- Jeff you always said you wanted a brother. Now that you have a brother
1629.14 1637.18 CW don't you think you -- you -- you -- you could treat him better? No. Took too long to come and didn't need him after that. {laugh}
1639.06 1644.48 JW Did they have any pets or did you have any pets when they were growing up or when you were growing up? Yeah.
1643.53 1647.33 CW Pets? Ohh yes we had two, two cats.
1647.54 1648.49 JW What were they like?
1649.56 1656.85 CW W- eh E- each one was completely different from the other although they were brothers. The cats -- what happened was there -- there were two girls
1656.86 1662.85 CW who lived on the ground floor of the building we lived in {lipsmack} and they had two Siamese C- cats.
1663.15 1670.7 CW and their mother had said -- and -- and J- {breath} Keith wanted a cat. We -- can I? I said nah please. I -- you know it's enough with the
1670.71 1677.23 CW two of you and now the cats too? I said alright, alright because they were Siamese cats and
1677.23 1683.13 CW those two Siamese cats were cute. One was the mother and one was the -- was -- was -- was her child.
1683.85 1690.47 CW But then they had the apartment uh painted and it's the same apartment you live in. They had their apartment painted.
1690.89 1697.39 CW And they left the window open S- so that the smell of the turpentine um would diminish
1697.81 1705.54 CW because it was you know very hard to uh live in. You know it was caustic and the two cats got out.
1706.51 1709.87 CW {lipsmack} And one of them came back pregnant.
1710.82 1718.88 CW Well it just so happens that Siamese when they are in breed and they have litter they only have one or two.
1720.06 1726.4 CW So when he asked could he have one of -- one of uh Oatmeal's cats when they came I'd said ohh, sure
1726.91 1730.96 CW because I saw Oatmeal having one cat you know. {laugh}
1731.54 1739.23 CW Well when Oatmeal's litter was born there was about seven cats in the litter because she was out of breed and
1740.06 1747.79 CW uh the cats were take -- well taken care of until -- until the moth- the -- the -- the -- the girl's mother decided that they could -- they could be given away.
1748.23 1755.74 CW And uh your father walked up with these two cats and I said Jared -- uh G- uh Keith I told you you could have a cat.
1756.22 1762.41 CW Well Jared -- that -- I brought this one for Jeff. I said yeah but -- but G-
1762.67 1770.58 CW I can -- you can only have one and this -- this -- this is such a cute little one right here. Supposing we kept -- keep him and you take the other one back.
1771.09 1778.39 CW And then he said to me very plaintively but that's not mine. {laugh} The other -- {breath} so I said well don't you like him? Because he was the
1778.42 1786.34 CW prettier cat. He was all black and shiny. The other one was sort of mixed with gray. {lipsmack} But the -- the black cat was really very pretty
1786.56 1788.22 CW but he told me that wasn't his cat.
1788.93 1796.27 CW He W- had the other cat. And so I said ohh, well uh you eh what I do to one I'll do to the other. I'll just do it at the same time.
1796.59 1803.61 CW Okay you can -- so then we had two cats and they named them. Their names were Ralph -- Rocky. That was
1803.98 1811.24 CW Jeff's cat. And Scratchy because he had long scratchy nails with oof -- that was your father's cat.
1811.98 1821.16 CW And we loved them, loved them, loved them to death. One -- Scratchy lived to be nineteen years old and Rocky lived to be twenty one.
1811.98 1812.76 JW Did they --
1822.08 1825.62 JW What did -- were they -- did they get into a lot of fights as brothers?
1824.63 1832.33 CW {breath} uh Well they -- they -- they -- they were not well mated at all. I mean they were not -- they were brothers but they did not get along. Scratchy
1832.67 1836.89 CW was the dominant one, very, very dominant and he um
1838.15 1844.95 CW {lipsmack} intimidated Rocky. He wouldn't let Rocky eat any food until he had finished eating all he wanted
1845.1 1852.75 CW which was emptying his plate plus as much as he wanted of Rocky's plate and then whatever was left little Rocky could have.
1853.21 1859.56 CW And I would take Rocky in the bathroom, close the door to isolate him. Rocky wouldn't touch his plate.
1860.03 1866.54 CW He wouldn't touch his plate until Scratchy had had what he wanted of it whenever he got at it. I --
1867.2 1874.55 CW it was really amazing to watch the personalities and the influence one had over the other just like -- it was just like
1874.84 1876.27 CW two human beings.
1876.62 1880.84 JW {breath} {breath} So um how much
1881.25 1887.61 JW um did they act up like -- did they act like the same as um the brothers?
1886.21 1893.91 CW Well they didn't go scrambling and fighting through the house. They didn't do things like that. No they were well -- they came -- they were -- they were -- they were trained --
1893.94 1901.02 CW potty trained when they got to me. I never had a moment's worry about training them. They were trained when they came.
1901.38 1906.51 CW And uh there was no -- never any problem except that liked -- they liked to scratch the furniture.
1907.43 1915.49 CW And they -- we went through S- three living room suites because I had posts with the kitty -- the -- the smell
1910.84 1911.67 JW Well --
1915.53 1923.13 CW you know that they like. No. They just wanted the front -- {laugh} the front of the couches were th- were their
1923.41 1927.95 CW favorite place and they just used to scratch all -- all the cloth off.
1928.08 1931.79 JW Did you have any friends as a child? Any best friends that you knew?
1932.9 1934.905 JW And -- yeah as a child.
1932.97 1936.63 CW Did I have best friends? I'd lots of best friends. Yeah.
1937.12 1939.26 JW What were their names? What were they like and --
1938.92 1946.68 CW Well I'm -- I'm S- {breath} I remember my fi- I -- she may have been my best friend but I don't know that I was
1946.7 1953.11 CW her be- best friend. Her name was uh Norma Bunny Norma
1953.16 1959.63 CW Adelle Miller was -- I consider her my first friend {lipsmack} and I trailed
1959.8 1966.2 CW her everywhere she went. She was older, she was very active, very fascinating girl. I would --
1966.36 1969.07 CW if ever my mother were looking for me she'd
1969.07 1976.72 CW first you know send somebody in to ring Norma's bell to see if I were there. And I would be -- be in Norma's house
1977.06 1984.39 CW because she fascinated me. She was -- she was witty. She could do anything. She could +jump +rope rope. {breath}
1984.79 1990.91 CW Better than anybody -- she could do things bet- and she was friendly. She would take you home to her mother and there seemed to be
1991.48 1999.66 CW nothing but children in that house but they always made a seat for me to sit anyhow and have a cup of tea with -- with milk in it.
2000.36 2006.15 CW Things that I didn't ha- and when you washed your hands you -- you -- you washed them with -- with Lifebuoy soap.
2006.57 2012.72 CW We didn't have Lifebuoy soap in my {laugh} house. We had -- my mother says well I use Ivory.
2013.25 2021.28 CW And she -- and I wanted her to get a -- a -- a cake of Lifebuoy soap S- so badly. I just liked the way it smelled. {laugh}
2021.49 2028.84 CW {breath} And I wanted to have tea with milk in it and she wouldn't let me have tea. So I just liked all the things they did that were different from
2028.94 2035.94 CW what went on in my house. um {breath} Well you know but it -- if somebody came in draw up a chair. The -- the -- the -- the --
2030.74 2032.49 JW I'm trying to remember um
2035.94 2043.99 CW we'd -- we didn't ha- we -- the four of us ate dinner every evening and you know if there were guests it was a B- it was a planned event. There wasn't any casual
2044.31 2047.05 CW co- come and sit down you know. {laugh}
2047.58 2049.91 JW Did you have any favorite toys as a child?
2049.96 2056.18 CW Ohh, yeah. I still have it. It's an electric stove. I showed it to you when you were a little boy. You don't remember.
2056.48 2058.59 CW And it still -- it still lights up
2060.26 2067.06 CW and I used to make cake and ohh, once we used to have colder weather in -- in -- in New York in those days.
2067.27 2075.2 CW The gas froze and there was any gas to cook dinner and we pulled out my little electric stove and warmed up my mother's dinner
2075.51 2081.59 CW with my stove. And ohh, we were all delighted that Connie's C- stove had saved the day. {laugh}
2083.01 2083.65 JW um
2084.18 2089.89 CW He staying -- he doesn't -- not carrying me on. I hope this is alright. {laugh}
2091.4 2096.92 CW {breath} We same -- what's interesting here -- I never knew you were interested in all of that. Carry on.
2091.63 2092.22 JW um
2093.3 2095.32 JW {breath}
2097.08 2099.084 JW um What um
2102.03 2105.32 JW what was probably the worst thing that your brother did to you?
2105.76 2107.714 CW Worst thing that my brother did to me?
2110.46 2112.92 CW {breath} I'm trying to think.
2115.03 2120.12 CW He ah he did something so -- I can't th- well what was --
2121.19 2125.54 CW he did something to me made me so angry.
2128.13 2135.93 CW Ohh I know what would happen too. We would get allowances at the end of the week and he would try
2137.35 2138.83 CW to short change me
2140.45 2141.18 CW and
2142.08 2149.87 CW I didn't like it. And we'd get into little fights because of that and I -- we got into one fight once when we were on the way to the movies
2149.87 2157.22 CW that I just took my finger and dug it into his cheek and the marks -- they -- the -- I just pulled that finger back
2157.22 2162.77 CW and I scraped off all the skin. That mark stayed there for the longest kind of time.
2163.07 2170.19 CW And I said well he'll know to leave me alone after this and give me my things. {laugh}
2170.43 2176.05 CW {breath} And what else? We did -- we had some sticky wicky uh
2176.05 2182.23 CW for instance as I say he would put me up to do the things that he was charged with doing in front of the family.
2182.5 2189.43 CW After we left the house he would reorder up things so that I had to -- I had to do the unpleasant part.
2189.93 2197.43 CW He would do that and -- but then he would also look out for me too you know because we went to high -- when we were going to high school
2197.74 2205.09 CW we would have to ride on the subway and in those days the subway was just packed and jammed like sardines.
2205.64 2213.42 CW And there were some unsavory characters on that subway. We used to have -- we used to have to take two or three +subways -- take this one up
2213.56 2219.43 CW hundred and sixty seven S- hundred and sixty seven street, cross over, come back down to you know before you
2219.78 2224.69 CW finally got to your school. And he would always put me in front of him
2225.7 2231.829 CW and we would be up front so that nobody could get in front of me after that you know to protect me.
2232.35 2238.43 CW I -- so he protected me but he fought with -- we fought for turf just the same. {laugh}
2239.2 2241.99 JW um What kind of movies did you see with your brother?
2242.3 2247.29 CW Everything that -- and everything and anything. On Saturday -- we went to the movies every Saturday we --
2247.29 2254.87 CW and mainly we kept up with the serials. That was the big thing you know, the cliffhangers. All week long we argued about
2254.92 2260.99 CW how it was going to begin. How could he get out of the fix that you know Tom Mix and
2261.6 2269.51 CW the uh the cowboys, how were they going to get out of the fix we saw them last and uh at the movies. How were they going to
2269.54 2277.59 CW get -- how were they going -- ohh, you know what they're going to do you know and {lipsmack} we thought we were so sophisticated. But we loved -- we loved those serials.
2281.4 2287.31 JW um How were -- wait sorry I'm trying to think of -- {breath}
2287.32 2291.11 JW what were the serials? That was just one of the stories that they had in the movies?
2290.15 2295.55 CW Most of them were Westerns you can believe it and then there were some um
2297.02 2298.62 CW and I always said
2300.1 2308.08 CW that that's the way a lot of children +learn learn to move going eh eh read going to the movies because they -- they -- they -- they would have these shorts
2308.34 2316.24 CW and some of the shorts were musicals in which they had songs and they had the bouncing ball bouncing on the words
2316.26 2324.61 CW of the song as it went along and -- and so you could just sing eh because you knew where the word was. The bouncing ball had hit there
2324.79 2332.53 CW and we learned -- we learned to -- and then the comics W- it was silent. It was in the silent movies so you had to learn to read in order to know what was
2332.54 2339.22 CW going on in the story. You know we -- and we really did because we were fascinated but mostly the stories were
2339.54 2347.19 CW Westerns or -- or -- or um ah Fatty Arbuckle you know funnies. uh
2347.46 2354.86 CW um Charlie Chaplin uh you know like that you know well that the --
2355.1 2359.45 CW the -- the guy was fat and -- and the other one was skinny.
2362.61 2370.45 CW Well ohh, his name is uh that's not coming -- name is on the tip of my tongue but mostly the Westerns were the things that you know cowboys and Indians
2370.77 2371.71 CW {lipsmack} all the way.
2372.35 2375.98 JW What was your favorite game to play in like the playground when you were a child?
2377.96 2384.31 CW You know I used to like -- the one I used to like was rattlesnake because we'd get on this line and we'd go
2384.85 2392.73 CW and we'd uh go in and out under each other's arms. We'd form a long line. The line could be as -- A- anybody could play and look there could be a whole
2392.75 2400.23 CW class line long and we went in and out so that we twisted our little bodies around and our hands became crossed like this
2400.73 2406.71 CW and then at the end the -- the last one joined hands with the -- with the -- with the first one
2406.82 2409.78 CW and you jumped up and down and sang rattlesnake.
2410.02 2417.02 CW It was fun and if you got it to work because lot -- there were lots of hitches in between. But when you got it to hurt -- work I thought it was a --
2417.19 2421.4 CW a nice -- nice finish you know. I liked rattlesnake.
2421.99 2422.51 JW um
2423.44 2427.11 JW Did you play any sports as a child or did you um
2426.49 2432.67 CW Ohh when I was in college I +played played field hockey and I liked field hockey very much. uh
2432.67 2435.73 CW Not that I was any good at it but I liked it. {laugh}
2436.04 2439.58 JW um Do you like any sports now that you watch on T_V?
2439.94 2444.31 CW Not particularly. I try to keep up with you fellas but I eh
2444.31 2451.59 CW I was always trying to get uh your father and uncle away from the -- the -- the -- the -- the sports
2451.59 2458.32 CW so that they would do their homework. So I -- I -- I refused to be interested because I uh you know
2458.64 2462.19 CW I was trying to get them to get their lessons you know.
2462.56 2470.04 CW When I was younger before I married up at the polo grounds they used to have ladies day on Friday and let you in for -- for ten cents
2470.31 2478.29 CW and um lots of times we'd go up to polo grounds ladies day and see the game and I would enjoy it if I were there. I enjoyed baseball if I were
2478.32 2485.3 CW there. Football if I were there. But if -- it -- it -- it never sustained me so I had to know the averages and
2485.74 2492.99 CW and scores and favorite players. It just -- it -- I would enjoy it if I were watching it at hand you know. {breath}
2490.53 2498.11 JW Yeah. {lipsmack} Okay {breath} so um thank you for this interview. I learned a lot and
2499.15 2500.121 JW {breath} thanks.
2499.6 2504.114 CW You're welcome and I learned a lot too from you. {laugh}
2501.192 2503.484 JW {breath} Thank you.