Gwen Carrington and Robert Stewart

[00:03] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Good afternoon. My name is Gwen Chestnut Carrington. I am the proud age of 72 years old. Today's date is January the 27th, 2025. We are located here in Selma, Alabama. My relationship to my partner, who is Robert.

[00:31] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: My name is Robert L. Stewart Jr. I'm 34 years old. Today's date is January 27th, 2025. We're located in Selma, Alabama, and my relationship to my partner, Gwen Tessnutt Carrington, is family friend, church member. So I just want to ask you, we both are Selma natives, Selma's, our family origins are same street, many generations, many of your siblings grew up with my mom and uncles and aunts, your nieces and nephews, or some of my childhood friends as well. So we go way back. Your husband and my uncle are best friends. So I just want to know, What made you come back to Selma? Because you went off to Selma, we went off a very fine institution, got educated, but what made you come back to Selma?

[01:35] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Wow, that's a great question. And thank you for reminding me of some of those family ties. And of course, I've known of you and just have gotten here lately to know even more about you, which I'm so very proud of you. I want to say that first of all. But being a Selma and And by us being in different generations, it is quite an honor to be able to have this conversation with you first and foremost. But my rationale for coming back to Selma, I have to honestly give that to my mom. Of course, I went to school out of the city. I'm a proud Alabama A&M University Bulldog. And after finishing school, I was given a job in Sioux City, Iowa. And I took that job and worked there. I actually integrated a school, an elementary school there in Sioux City, Iowa. Of being the first black person to-- person period, first black teacher, the first black person period in that particular school. And that was an experience that I will never forget. But it strengthened me and it gave me an opportunity coming from Selma, that exposure to make some lifelong decisions and just to be awarded that opportunity was great. Well, after one year there, and then I went on to Kansas City, Missouri, where I taught for a couple of years, and then, you know, Crystal, and that's where Crystal was born there. But after being there and some twists and turns, some unfortunate decisions, my mom kind of said, Come on, come back home. Come back home. And I decided to, hesitantly, I decided to, because I can remember, you know, Selma as and having experienced that big city kind of life, you know. But I decided to come back, which I do not regret.

[04:01] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: I had no idea you lived in other places. And Iowa, the Midwest, and Kansas City, and you integrated. And recently, I just found out about you being involved as a youth in the Civil Rights Movement as a child for voting rights. So I just want to thank you for paving the way for voting rights. And now, So I get to sit as an Alabama state senator because of your sacrifices and commitment to justice. So how did that shape your life, that experience?

[04:35] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Oh, that experience was-- it was one that will always be with me and with others. I, at one point, did not look at myself as being a foot soldier. My parents were very conservative about the movement. They believed real quick, could you tell, like, people listening what a foot soldier is? Okay. A foot soldier during that time, and it is as of today, any person that participated in the movement in any way, these were students, because, to be honest, I was 11 and a half years old. When I entered Robert E. Lee High School in the seventh grade. And it was 19, I was born in ####. And of course, the movement began for me in 1963. And because our, because, number one, I was a member of Tabernacle Baptist Church, and my parents were hard-working people who knew the danger of the student movement, they were reluctant, you know, with my older sister and I being participants in that. But because we were members of Tabernacle and because our pastor, Reverend Edward Anderson, was very much involved in the movement and led several of the marches and the sit-ins and the protests, we were granted the opportunity to attend the mass meeting. So because even though I was very young at that time, because I was a member of the so-called youth choir at Tabernacle at that time. And Pastor was trying to get all of the members of the choir. They just wanted a large crowd, number one, to be present at that very first mass meeting in May of 1963. So I was there at that meeting, and that gave me, you know, being that young, it was difficult to understand totally what was going on, but I knew that I knew that I wanted for my parents to have the right to vote and for other parents, and I knew how hard my parents had worked. And I just felt this intrinsic desire to want to be a part of the movement. And so every opportunity that I got, whether it was leaving the school and sometimes not getting my parents' permission, and sometimes I did, but and being a part of the training sessions or just the mass meetings, It just helped me to understand how important it was to carry on that fight. So as of today, I still am working with the Legacy Foundation at our church and any other organization that is for the uplifting of our people and especially our children as an educator. One of my highest priorities is working with children and getting them involved in the good things of life and understanding that they are, they are to look at themselves as being this and knowing that they are what we call somebody to say, I am somebody, you know, I am worthy, you know. And so that has always been my goal. And I'd like to turn it around and say, what was it that encouraged you to come back to Selma and to remain in Selma and most of all, because that's what's happening with our young people, they will not remain here in Selma as much as I tried to get mine to stay here and to work to help build up the population of the young people. They chose not to, but you chose to do that. And I'm thankful that you did because as we are who are getting older, we need young people to step up to the plate and be active and have that voice in our community, not only in our community, but in other communities and as for as you across the state. And so I thank you for that. But if you can answer that question for me.

[08:51] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Well, I had a really good childhood in Selma. Growing up, there were people like you and, you know, being involved with civic organizations and I had that sense of community. And people always encouraging me that I can go, that I can do things like you. I did move away. I end up, I'm a proud graduate of Tuskegee University. And so I went to Tuskegee, which is very similar to Selma, a rural town, predominantly African-American, lots of history regarding civil rights in the Black Belt rule of rich heritage. And so, that was kind of informed my values and politics. So I did that, was a student leader, and Selma was, I view Selma as a lunching pad. Everything, all roads for me in my life, come back to Selma, come back to a lot of the mores that were instilled in me to be active, to be involved, to be engaged.

[10:04] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: And.

[10:06] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: I turned down a job on Wall Street. A lot of people don't know that, but I had interned on Wall Street and turned down a job offer there after my co-op, my senior year. And I had no idea what I was going to do, but Selma was available. I was able to come back and be an accountant for a few months there. Then moved to Montgomery to work for the state. Then end up going to graduate school in Georgia, did a stint in Atlanta, working in accounting and circling back to Birmingham for an accounting role. And then I came back to be a congressional staffer for Congresswoman Sewell in 2018. And then from there, I end up getting a lobbying job in Washington, DC. So I did that for like three years and I didn't want to come. I was reluctant like you because I spent my whole life trying to get to DC, but I understood that my community needed me. And that's the sort of cycle of life in politics is you go to DC, you get your experience and then you come back home to try to make your state better. And my grandmother always told me that I would be in politics.

[11:31] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Oh, wow.

[11:32] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: And she died. She was just shy of 93. She died during my campaign when I decided to run for Senate the day after I announced. And so that, when I remember doing my first interview, radio interview, announcing that I was running for state Senate, And people were just calling in, oh, I know your grandmother. I know your people. Your grandmother provided health care to me out of her home. When she left Good Samaritan, people would come to her house. She would give them shots, stitches, casts. Because this was before Medicaid and the social-- We had a sense of community. But this was before Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society and the Social Safety Net. And so all of that is like a full circle moment, that sense of obligation, dedication and duty to your community were instilled in me. And so that's why I came back. And I always, I know that we don't get what we deserve. We have a lot of potential, and I see opportunity in Selma, and I view, especially after the tornado, I think that we have a blank canvas, and we get to decide. The trajectory and direction as a community. And that's a key value. You have to be able to decide as a community the direction in which where you're gonna go. And that's why for me, involvement is key.

[13:06] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Yes, I totally agree. And guess what? You may not know this, or may not have known this, but both my mom and dad graduated from Tuskegee Institute, which is what it was at that time. My mom was born in ####. She would always, she said, she would remind us or tell us that her father had asked that one of his, because there were 10 of them that were alive. And he wanted one of them to go to Tuskegee Institute, one of his children to go to college. And she would always tell her dad, I'll go, Dad. I'll go, Dad. And he sent her to Tuskegee. And my dad had been in World War II. He actually earned a Purple Heart because he was wounded during World War II. But he went to Tuskegee after the war. And I'm not-- he never really explained how he got there because I'm sure his parents, you know, they couldn't afford to-- well, anyway, he got there. And they met. And so that's how my siblings and I, you know, are here today. But, yes, she was a strong believer in her Tuskegee University. And right now, and she lived until '95. She passed away in 1995. And so I still have some of her Tuskegee alumni sweatshirts and t-shirts, you know, and things that we would purchase for her. I actually wanted to, that was my first choice. And it wasn't because she was urging us to go, but I just wanted to follow in their footsteps. But my older sister had gotten a band scholarship at Alabama A&M University. And knowing that my mom and dad were struggling trying to give us the monies, the little monies that we needed after the loans and the little scholarships that we had to even go to college. And so she would tell us, she said that it would be easier on her if we were at the same college. And so that's why I went to Alabama A&M, is because my older sister, but I learned to love it, and of course, The story goes on from there. Yeah.

[15:27] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Is this the sister in Georgia?

[15:29] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: No, this is Winona. She's actually at our church. Oh, yes. Ronald Peoples. Yes, Miss Peoples.

[15:36] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: I didn't know she went to, I didn't realize she went to Alabama.

[15:39] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Yes, she did. Yeah, because her husband went to Alabama State. So, yeah, they have a divided, yes. What is your vision for Selma? What are your hopes for Selma? You know, if I can speak of that, you know, I tell people all the time that I believe totally that we are all here for a purpose and everything happens for a purpose. And I still hold on to that belief in Selma. There is an unseen Because if we look at Selma today, we would like go, you know, oh, you know, it's doomed. We're doomed. But I believe that there is a sincere purpose for our city, and that purpose is not just for the uplifting of our people to continue to work. Because when we teach-- I think there's a saying that says, you, reach one, you teach one. And as I would say in the classroom all the time with my students or when I was working with other teachers, after I moved from the classroom, I would tell them nothing is taught until something is learned. And that is for our community also. We have to continue to work with our community, be it that they are young students or even our adults, that there is a purpose and they have a purpose here in Selma. And that's why I've had many opportunities to leave. Even my children have asked me, you know, to leave and come and live in their places. And my answer would be no, no, no. Because this is home for me, and I believe that we will rise. Selma will rise, and it will be greater than it was before. We are remembered for some very terrible times, and I know I could sit here and tell you many stories of being segregated from the community as a whole, but We look beyond that and I believe that we will rise in Selma. We are rising. We are rising.

[17:56] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: For me, we're dealing with the advent that this year's theme for Black History Month is African Americans and Labor. And so in my speeches this year, I have been really internalizing and doing some introspection on what that means. On our journey as African Americans. And we're having some really contentious labor debates as a nation regarding labor policy, making sure that people have access to livable wages and good paying jobs. So for me, my vision for Selma is for us to be a hub for aviation. We were just, we had a former Air Force base and it's still there. We still have it. We still have the Air Force base. And so for that to be repurposed to have more aviation training, I was responsible for a $2 million appropriation for a rural aviation consortium training at the Craig the former Air Force base. And so I kind of want to see that through and get jobs so people can stay. And Aviation is a good way for us to be able to live, have good paying jobs and without degrees. You know, you talk about aircraft mechanics, air traffic controllers, Pilots. I want to see there's a pilot shortage, so I want to see Selma as a hub. For Aviation. I also, my vision economically, too, is for us to become a supply chain Hub as well, especially as we talk about developing our Inland ports in the rivers and shipping things. We had that big crisis in Baltimore dealing with the shipping Hub there. And what I would like, that means we're gonna have to ship more things out of the Gulf of Mexico. And so Selma is primarily located in our past to sort of participate in some of that shipping. And we have a four-lane highway, railroad. So just Logistics. I want us to sort of amp that up, and we and, and I would like us to see a, a.

[20:34] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: A.

[20:37] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: We, we have this, a Statewide airport authority. I mean, a, not an airport authority, a waterway Authority. But I would like to see a local waterway Authority to sort of get some focus to develop that. So I think economics, our fight today is economically. We have a lot of poverty and I think as community leaders, we need to ensure that people don't live in degradation and try to address poverty, not be afraid to talk about it. How can we make people's lives better? You know, that's what I loved about how we just have, we have self-determination. In our community. You were there last week, how we had a warrant clinic and brought court to the community. A lot of people are facing crimes of poverty, you know, failure to appear, because you might have to work, fail to appear in court, because you might have to work, you miss a court date, you move around a lot because you're in a precarious situation. You don't get the court notice in the mail. And so the fact that we were able to have court in the community where people could come to the basement of the historic First Baptist Church, and we helped hundreds of people, and we'd do that again during our 60th anniversary commemoration.

[22:09] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Awesome.

[22:11] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: That is what it's all about, is trying to make people's lives better. And that's what this state needs to do. With healthcare, our vision, we do have a rural hospital, which is a regional hub, because a lot of communities, surrounding communities, don't have a hospital that don't have, you know, the technology that we have. And so just sort of amping that up. Healthcare, the VA, I would like to see the VA become, support our veterans more. And expand it. We do have a satellite VA, but I would like to see that expanded.

[22:50] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: And when you're speaking of it, because I am a retired, you know, educator, I think about our educational system here in Dallas County and how we must continue to improve. There's improvement, but we must continue to improve for our students, for our students. I mean, K through 12 and beyond. It is so very important that we continue to instill our teachers continue to instill in the students that education is so important. A lot of them just want to get out, they just want to do the very, very least. And when it comes to the financial parts of that, my personal opinion here in Dallas County, and this again is my personal opinion, there is no reason to school systems in the small county of Dallas. And when we think about funding sources and pooling resources, you know, and for the betterment of the children. And I think we have to keep that in focus. And my vision for that is that I hope that one day in Dallas County, we will resolve those issues and be supportive and think think about our students, think more about our students and what's best for them. And when you think about other counties that are three and four times the size of our county and they have one school system, why not Selma? Why not Selma? We can, you know, we can turn those extra funds and put them in the right, prioritize, you know, and put them in the right places. So that's one vision that I have for our educational system here in Selma.

[24:39] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: It's good to hear that. I'm concerned about K through 12. I'm concerned about the promise of K through 12 education. When you talk about efforts from right-wing extremists to not fully fund education, to divert public funds to private schools, when private schools can deny children.

[25:03] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: That's right.

[25:04] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: And they're not even under the same standards as public schools, not held, Under the same scrutiny.

[25:12] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Exactly.

[25:14] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: And for me, that is unsettling to me. And I think for us as a community, that's something that we have to advocate for the longevity of K-12 education and ensure that it's viable. Because for me, I view public education as my inheritance because it was black legislators doing reconstruction who said that education is a right and created the first public schools funding for the first public schools. So if it wasn't for black people, there wouldn't be public schools. And I think it's important for people to understand that that's not DEI. This is us being Americans.

[26:00] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Exactly.

[26:01] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: And fighting for the best for policies that uplift everyone.

[26:05] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Everybody, everyone. That's so true. So true. So true. And that's-- and for our parents who have children in K through 12 especially, you know, to continue to-- with our voices that we have, if it's just one parent or a hundred parents that we are talking to, to also continue to encourage them to understand the importance of their children's education and to understand what is trying to be taken away from them. Because I think a lot of misunderstanding, you know, and a lot of-- There are a lot of disparities, but because they don't know, a lack of knowledge, that is so important. So we have to continue to work on those areas, too. I know that I try to tell any parent that I may see or have seen, or even when I was teaching, and talking with their students who may not have been doing the very best in my classroom, to encourage those parents to take extra time with their students. And so we have to continue to do that too because the children are going to mimic their parents for the most part. And, you know, they have teachers, but they go home. And so, you know, as a former teacher, I tell all parents out there now, we need your help. We continuously need your help because we only have them seven to eight hours a day, and we need your help, you know, for the uplifting, especially with what we're going through now, you know, time will tell, but there's hope. There is definitely hope.

[27:48] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Well, Sunday school played a big role in literacy. And we see all the kids that come to Vacation Bible School every summer, it's packed. What role do you think the church can play in supporting public education and literacy and things of that nature?

[28:07] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Definitely still doing those things like summer Vacation Bible School. You know, I have been the director of our Vacation Bible School at Tabernacle for, I don't know, a long time. But, and when we see all of those kids coming in that are not just from our church, from over, you know, all over the community, we understand.

[28:30] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: There are kids from Montgomery that were there.

[28:32] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Oh, wow, yeah. And so it is important to have those activities. And so, but not only activities like that, I know we've talked in it for a very short, very, very short time, short period of time at TAP. At one point, we started a reading, a tutoring session wherein, you know, students could come in free of charge. And that's what our pastor, Carrington, is looking forward to returning to, you know, having those types of sessions wherein we can tutor students who are struggling, struggling in reading or struggling, you know, in math, but just having that those open doors, not just for a short period of time, but for the longevity of, you know, whatever period of time that we can provide that and then provide those opportunities for parents to come in and have parents, student conversations. Because that a lot of times now, our young parents, our young parents are just, sometimes they give our children a little bit too too much privilege, you know, those privileges that they give them are not all good and, and something goes lacking, you know, when that happens. So teaching parents, teaching parents, in some cases, it's actually teaching parents how to parent, you know, and, and, and then giving them that, giving them that, that force of that backup, you know, to say, okay, I support you, that support that they need as parents. So I think the church plays a big and helping to not only work with the students but working with the parents also.

[30:18] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Do you have any regrets in life?

[30:22] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: You know, really, probably 20 years ago, I may have thought about some things that I regretted, but you know, when I overall know God has been so gracious, so good to me, and anything that I may not have been able to get or receive or didn't a place I may not have gotten to go to or things of that nature. You know, they are minimal. They don't mean that it's not important to me at this stage of my life. So when I look back over my life and how things have evolved and, and all of that, you know, I, I don't have any regrets. I don't have any regrets. No, I don't. Yeah. Do you?

[31:09] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: I am working through them.

[31:12] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Okay.

[31:14] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: I regret not going straight to law school after undergrad. But I'm working on that to remedy that. I wish I would have ran for SGA president in college. But I did a lot. I was president of my fraternity. I did a lot of stuff. But like, Like I say, minor, I live in gratitude and just been grateful of all the things I've been able to do.

[31:47] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: It overshadows those little things, yeah. What I might call small things.

[31:52] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: What breaks your heart about Selma?

[31:57] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: As you know, my home house is 820 Field Park Avenue. And to see the dilapidated homes and right now my siblings that are here and two of them, We are desperately trying to save my parents' home. And unfortunately, we don't have the funds to just go in there and do everything and renovate it, do all that is needed to renovate it. My mom, and I usually say my mom was very much more outspoken than my dad, but my mom said to us before she passed away is that one of her grandchildren children or great grandchildren may need a place to stay, may need somewhere to come home to. And if you all can, please keep this house. And so I have been really trying to do that. I have really been trying to do that. But because of a lack of funds, it's been very, very difficult, especially when you have a house that really no one is staying in and just trying to find, and I don't want to sell it, you know? So that is something that is dear to me, and that's something that I'm working on as of today, you know, to continue to try to save. So when I look at our community and look at all around on our, on Field-Patt Avenue, look at that street and see all of my neighbors and their children who have left their homes, and their homes are no longer, they're falling in. And I don't want to see my parents home fall in on that block. It's the only house on that side of the street. It's the only house that's standing right there on that side of the street. It's a very short street, but still there used to be at least four houses there. Mine only, you know, it's the only one. Ours is the only one. And so that just hurts my heart to see that. And so again, with a vision, when we talked about visions, that is a part of my, I didn't think of it, in, but it's a part of my, a part of my dream to see the revitalization in Selma and on all of the, the streets of Selma.

[34:20] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Yes, that's, that's very key. But, and I, and just driving around the neighborhood, it is heartbreaking. And then a lot of the homes are empty and it was a vibrant, I remember walking to the variety shop. And that's closed. You know, memories of my childhood. My first job was in the neighborhood. I worked at the St. Edmund Learning Center. And to see, I think they have recently reopened, but it was closed for many years. And to see, really, the area around Selma University, which was once a vibrant You had separate schools. You had doctors in the neighborhood, the Anderson house. So yes, that is a goal, but we do have opportunity. And we will, with the right planning and zoning. And really, I think our city needs a housing foundation where we can raise money. Other cities have this, where we can raise money to help people rebuild their homes. We really need to tap into our philanthropic connections because there are places that are less prominent than Selma that are getting resources. And Selma is the most famous small town. And like I said, we can, we work together and we put aside.

[35:55] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Our.

[35:56] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: Differences and all the rancor and then I think we'll get to where we need to be in our God-given destiny.

[36:04] GWEN TESSNUTT CARRINGTON: Yeah, I totally agree. Very well said. Thank you.

[36:08] ROBERT L. STEWART JR.: No problem.