Han Calder and Logan Stewart Calder

[00:04] HAN CALDER: Hey, I'm han Calder. I'm 29. Today is Monday, October 31, 2022, and we are in Salt Lake City, Utah. And I'm here with my brother, Logan Calder.

[00:17] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Hello, I'm Logan Calder. I'm age 31. It is October 31, 2022. We're in Salt Lake City, and I'm here with my brother, Han So Han and I wanted to talk about one of the just life after one of the biggest events in our life. So we lost our brother Seth over seven years ago, and it was right around this time when his health started really declining. I think his health really started going downhill really fast around this time the year prior. Yeah, yeah. So eight years ago this time of year. Okay. I think that's when mom got the call from Ali Osha. Like, hey, Seth is on my couch. Like, I'm gonna fly him out to you guys. I think he needs to be with you.

[01:04] HAN CALDER: Is that the day you guys had that family meeting without me?

[01:08] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I don't remember.

[01:09] HAN CALDER: Cause I was in Arizona with my ex wife.

[01:14] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay. I only know. Yeah, I only know where I was. I don't know where you were. Didn't even think about that.

[01:23] HAN CALDER: Yeah, I remember you or mom called me, and I know it was. It might have been here, because I remember I was there for Halloween with Ashley.

[01:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay.

[01:33] HAN CALDER: And, you guys, your mom called me to say Seth isn't doing well.

[01:39] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Wow.

[01:40] HAN CALDER: And I remember I wasn't part of the conversation.

[01:43] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Really?

[01:43] HAN CALDER: Yeah.

[01:44] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I don't remember a group call about it. Okay.

[01:46] HAN CALDER: Yeah, there was a group.

[01:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I'm sorry. You look like that.

[01:50] HAN CALDER: I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest brother, so it was. And I was busy being engaged or whatever, so.

[01:57] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Getting married? Yeah.

[01:58] HAN CALDER: Yeah, yeah, I was engaged. Or I got to be engaged.

[02:01] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[02:06] HAN CALDER: But, yeah, so tell me about that.

[02:08] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, so that was. I actually don't even remember. I feel like. I feel like it was, like, a. Like, right around Halloween. I feel like it's, like, the 30th, because I think I was, like. I went to, like, some Halloween party before my mom called me. Well, I think. I don't know. I could have, like, memories that are kind of messed up, but. So it's been eight years since then and seven years since Seth died that following July. And that's, like, a long time to go without somebody. It's like, every year, it ticks, you know? And it's like. Seems like it's too long. It's been too long. It's been too long. So we just said we wanted to talk about where we are now, since he passed, to start off a little bit casually, just to get us going, I thought we could just describe exactly where we are. At my house, the house that I'm renting in Milk Creek, Utah. I think this is the first time han's been in this part of my basement. No. No. Shoot. What stand out to you about where we are?

[03:12] HAN CALDER: Well, I remember this is where we lived, just down the street from where you and I lived together. When? After Seth passed away.

[03:25] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Bachelor pen. Yeah.

[03:27] HAN CALDER: With a bunch of high school friends.

[03:29] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[03:32] HAN CALDER: No, but. So I actually have a journal entry just because I never know how you feel about Seth.

[03:45] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[03:45] HAN CALDER: Or how much you miss him, because I always felt you guys were closer, but I feel that I miss him more.

[03:51] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[03:52] HAN CALDER: And. And so I. Just a week or two ago, I was reading through my journal, and.

[04:03] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Let'S see. See.

[04:08] HAN CALDER: Here'S just one from, like, March 9, right, of this year.

[04:14] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: It says.

[04:20] HAN CALDER: Sometimes I have these waves that hit me, and I realize that I'm not going to see Seth again. I miss him so much, I'll never get to talk to him again. And I guess, like, it makes me wonder, like, where are your thoughts? Because I think we both have different beliefs.

[04:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[04:48] HAN CALDER: But then I also don't know your beliefs. Like, I think my beliefs are way apparent of life, and, uh, I'm a little more vocal and. And. But also, I think maybe we all think our own beliefs are a little more vocal or apparent.

[05:04] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah.

[05:05] HAN CALDER: And so then, like, it just makes me, like, wonder, you know, I wonder, what are. What are Logan's and John's thoughts about Seth?

[05:12] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[05:14] HAN CALDER: You know? But for me, it's like I have these waves right now that, like, I'll never talk to him again, get to.

[05:23] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Be with him again. Yeah. I, um. How have you felt like, since. How close have you felt to him since he's passed?

[05:38] HAN CALDER: I think in a lot of ways I feel closer because, one, he's not able to be mean to me.

[05:46] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah, I.

[05:49] HAN CALDER: But. So I had this thought, I was telling mom about it the other two weeks ago, that Seth was the best older brother.

[05:56] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Because of our older brothers, he was the best.

[05:59] HAN CALDER: Yes, because. But here's all these qualifiers. Okay, so an older brother is supposed to be mean.

[06:04] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay.

[06:06] HAN CALDER: Seth was constantly mean to me, constantly teasing me. An older brother is supposed to be there no matter what. I could call him two in the morning, 11:00 a.m. he's always down to talk, right?

[06:19] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[06:20] HAN CALDER: Never too busy to talk, and he never had his own. He was never pushing his. Pushing his agenda on.

[06:27] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah.

[06:28] HAN CALDER: We're like, if I call Regan.

[06:29] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. He's got. He's got what he wants for you.

[06:31] HAN CALDER: Yeah.

[06:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[06:32] HAN CALDER: Also, we have a lot of brothers. There's five boys in our family. I'm the youngest. Makes that easier for, you know, listeners. The listener already on the podcast, but no, but so. So when I call Regan. And you probably experienced the same, I'm thinking the last conversation we had. But he pushes his own agenda, and you. You always are supportive, and. And John will be critical or not interested. And Seth was always, like, the perfect amount of guidance, listening, support. You know, it was just, like, enthusiasm and. But I just, like, thought, like, these range and what. What is an older brother? They're an asshole. They tease you. They're supposed to pick on you. They're supposed to support you. They're supposed to be available. They're supposed to. I don't know, just.

[07:28] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And Seth Fitz.

[07:29] HAN CALDER: And also look up to. Right.

[07:31] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Like, yeah. Somebody you look up to.

[07:34] HAN CALDER: Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to look like John or Regan.

[07:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[07:38] HAN CALDER: I don't want to listen to their music. I don't want to dress like them. I don't want to have their friends.

[07:45] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: But Seth, you're all like, whoa, Seth. Like some untouchable.

[07:50] HAN CALDER: So that's. I can't remember what you asked me, but that's how I feel. Like, my.

[07:55] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: So that's.

[07:55] HAN CALDER: That's how I feel with Seth. Is that, like, even now, I I. As we've texted or talked, like, I feel like I embody him more, and so I think that makes me feel closer to him.

[08:09] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah. I think I felt a lot of that embodiment earlier on when I was, like, in the first two or three years, when I was, like, grieving a lot and, you know, I was back and forth between New York City and Salt Lake, and, you know, just in little ways, I felt like I was, like, tasting a little bit of him. Yeah. Whether I was, like, manufacturing it or whether it just was, like, something that I was just experiencing. And you and I both had times where, like, somebody will tell us, like, you feel like Seth right now.

[08:44] HAN CALDER: I had.

[08:45] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Alyosha told me that once. Dane told me that once. And, like. And then lately with that. With you, I, like, felt that. Yeah. To you, I felt like you embodied Seth. Yeah. And I think lately, I haven't felt as close. Not like. Not like I felt just, like. I felt like it hasn't even been, like, part of my. It hasn't been. He hasn't been front of my mind lately, and I. But recently I wondered, like, yeah, have I not been very close to him lately? Have I? Am I kind of like that scene from 6th sense at the end when the boy asks his mom, like, what questions does she have about her late mother? Do you remember this scene? And she's like, she wants to know, does she make her mother proud? And I had that question for about a week recently. I was like, am I making him proud? Or am I so distracted by what I perceive or my own response, by the responsibilities that I perceive for myself? Like, am I so distracted by those that I am not even thinking about him and neglecting the things that he gave me or the other things he could have taught me and stuff? So I had that question on my mind for, like, a week. And then the week after, I just felt like talking to you. I was like, oh, Seth is right here. I feel like he's so close when I was talking to you. And then. Same with him. So you and my friend Jordan were, like, the two people I'm talking to right now, you know, same. Same with Jordan. Jordan was reading Nietzsche and he showed, like, a line from Zarathustra. And I think this, like, this line from thus Saith Zarathustra embodies, like, so much of what Seth wanted for himself, so much of what he strove for in life. And what I think you would want from me, too, if the line says, like Zarathustra says, I don't want dead companions. I want companions who follow me because they follow themselves. And I think the times when I felt closest to Seth is, like, when I'm following myself and then I end up accidentally. I end up following Seth in some way, but not because I'm trying to, like. Not because I'm trying to, like, put on his mask or something, you know? But because it's like I'm just, like, being honest and sincere and respecting myself, loving myself. Like, I'm trying to love other people, you know, but not self, not. Not sacrificing myself to, like, an unhealthy point.

[11:16] HAN CALDER: And then.

[11:18] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. And that's how he wants that. Those. And, like, those. Those are the types of friends that he wanted, right? Like, people that just, like, tried to be themselves and ended up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that makes so. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that makes much of a sense, but yeah.

[11:50] HAN CALDER: Do you think about him every day or. I'm sorry, what are you gonna say, yeah.

[11:54] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Well, I want to ask, like, you. You started to choke up there while I talked about the. There was point when you started to choke up, and I talked about something. Was I quoting Zarathustra or was I, um. No. Where was I? Shoot. I said, like, I wondered, oh, if he's proud of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What were you.

[12:20] HAN CALDER: Well, because I have the same thoughts.

[12:26] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And.

[12:30] HAN CALDER: I think we're at different parts of life.

[12:34] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[12:34] HAN CALDER: You have three kids and a wife, and I live in a downtown apartment.

[12:38] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: It's hard to be like Seth when.

[12:39] HAN CALDER: I have three kids and I'm living in a downtown apartment making art.

[12:44] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:46] HAN CALDER: And, like, you know, sometimes I won't be home till 06:00 a.m. or something.

[12:51] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Right.

[12:52] HAN CALDER: This is great.

[12:53] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: You can be sure you're making them proud. No question.

[12:56] HAN CALDER: And, like, I'll go hang out with skateboarders, or I'll try to skate with them. So. I know. And so I've actually been. I got that tattoo, right. And I obviously want more tattoos. And I. I say obviously just because I feel like the church we grew up with that was, like, you know, tattoos are addicting. I feel it. Oh, yeah. I have, like, whole plants for. But I want to get more of his artwork on my arm.

[13:31] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[13:32] HAN CALDER: Even though some. I think his artwork kind of sucks.

[13:36] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[13:36] HAN CALDER: In a tattoo form, like, I don't think.

[13:38] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Oh, yeah.

[13:39] HAN CALDER: But I want to look good. Yeah. And. But. But then I had this thought the other day that I was like, you know, in 60 years, like, part of me wants to, like, get over him.

[13:53] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[13:55] HAN CALDER: Part of me, like, doesn't want to miss him anymore.

[13:58] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Doesn't.

[13:59] HAN CALDER: I don't want to think about him anymore.

[14:01] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[14:02] HAN CALDER: And I'm like, I think that's, like, anger.

[14:05] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[14:06] HAN CALDER: And so then when I think, oh, if I had all these tattoos, like, they'll be the reminder that I lost my brother, but that's also why I want them. And then when I think about, is he proud? Like, I don't. Or I think about. You think about that. I remember I used to when I felt that, you know, the first three or four years, I was thinking about that, and I realized it doesn't matter. Yeah, because he's dead. And so, like, because I bought an Xbox. You went to India with some money that we got from him.

[14:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[14:47] HAN CALDER: And I know he hates video games. I was like, I don't care. Like, yeah, I can decide what to do with your money, not. Not you, because. And so part of me is like, so what if he's not proud?

[15:02] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: But then, at the same time, obviously.

[15:08] HAN CALDER: Like, I do want.

[15:11] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[15:16] HAN CALDER: Like, I do want to make him proud. And that's so funny. Cause he's dead. So I was like, why do we care to that we make the one person we can't.

[15:33] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, but I like that example you buy in the Xbox and how, like, stick it to him. Yeah. Because I think that's kind of what he would have wanted, though, too. That's what stick it to him is what would have made him the most proud. I've had conversations with him in my head where I'm like, look, I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to do it. Yeah. I felt like you. He's like, thank you. I wouldn't want you to do it the way that I want you to do it. That's why I feel like he's, like.

[15:59] HAN CALDER: The best older brother.

[16:00] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[16:01] HAN CALDER: Because all the other older brothers tried to make you do things, right. Like, when we were younger, they would always make you do. I guess just John. I don't know. I don't really remember Reagan trying to.

[16:14] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[16:15] HAN CALDER: But, like, you know, like, they would have. He would make you ride mountain bikes or listen to certain music, and I.

[16:21] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Never felt coerced, but maybe I wasn't.

[16:23] HAN CALDER: Sensitive to that, but, yeah, I always felt you were coerced.

[16:26] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I always got frustrated. I could see moments of people like, come on, Logan. Okay.

[16:32] HAN CALDER: I was like, he doesn't want to let Logan say what he wants to do.

[16:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: That's my personality. But also, looking up to Seth helps me see that more, you know? That's one thing that I really look up to him for. His. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. He did what he wanted to do.

[16:55] HAN CALDER: Do you ever think, like, you don't feel him or maybe think about him all the time because your life is busy?

[17:03] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's. I mean, that was my thought, you know? Like, am I. Am I so distracted by what I perceive or my responsibilities that I'm not.

[17:16] HAN CALDER: Yeah.

[17:17] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Thinking about him or things that I gained from him. You had your question about, so what are my beliefs about? Like, will I see Seth? Yeah.

[17:32] HAN CALDER: What are you thoughts?

[17:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Maybe.

[17:33] HAN CALDER: I don't know if beliefs are, but, like, what are your. Yeah, what do you think on a regular. What's a repeating thought about.

[17:39] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't have thoughts that I won't see again. Yeah.

[17:46] HAN CALDER: And. But do you have thoughts that you.

[17:48] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Will see him again? Hmm. Not really. I don't, like, look forward to, like, a day when I will see him again, you know? Yeah, yeah. But, like. But at the same time, it's like. But I also feel like. I do feel like. So I do. I do feel like he hasn't been very far away, and I think there's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's almost. It's almost like my experience since he's died has, like, made it so I don't even worry about that question, I think.

[18:28] HAN CALDER: What do you mean?

[18:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Because I've felt. It's like, when he died, even, like, the very day that he died, I felt like he was closer to me than he'd been in the past three years of his life because he was so sick. He realized, like, whoa, he had all this sickness there, like, separating him from me, and now he's not physically here for me, so that's another. Now there's a new distance between. But it's like that. That mental illness and drug addiction is, like, no longer there, and. Yeah, so.

[19:04] HAN CALDER: Oh, so your version of him.

[19:06] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah.

[19:07] HAN CALDER: Has no mental illness and no drug addiction.

[19:10] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, maybe that's one thing. It's like, do I feel close now to Seth without mental. Yeah. Is that what I feel close to? Like, my version of him without mental illness? Is that what I feel close to? Because you don't have the person with mental illness right in front of you that has shrunk for me, and I have just, like, I have just who I think he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[19:35] HAN CALDER: There is kind of a distance when someone has mental illness. Even, like, I think with our own mental illnesses, there's, like, a distance maybe in our more intense times, we feel from.

[19:48] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[19:48] HAN CALDER: The other person.

[19:49] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[19:50] HAN CALDER: And.

[19:53] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, no, I said I don't want that to, like, encourage anybody to commit suicide either. You know, it's like, I worry, like, when I say those things, they're like.

[20:00] HAN CALDER: Oh, people will, you know.

[20:05] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I wouldn't encourage that, but.

[20:11] HAN CALDER: So I sometimes. Well, I don't know my thoughts on where he's at or not at change. And there are multiple countering thoughts that I hold at the same time. And, you know, one is that, like, he has superpowers and he can listen to me.

[20:33] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[20:34] HAN CALDER: One is that he's not there.

[20:36] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[20:36] HAN CALDER: One is that he's still struggling. One is that he doesn't care about me, and those are all held almost simultaneously for me.

[20:48] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[20:49] HAN CALDER: And the one where he has superpowers and can hear me, he obviously, for me, he also loves me in those. In that state. And my worst fear is that there is something after, but that will never get to see him again.

[21:15] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: You have an eternity to have to be with that.

[21:17] HAN CALDER: Without set.

[21:18] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[21:19] HAN CALDER: Without you, without Ben, you know, without these humans that I desperately love.

[21:26] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Well, yeah, because, like, the universe is so vast and space and time is so vast. Yeah. Yeah.

[21:33] HAN CALDER: And I think about. Okay, so it'll be about 60 or so years until I die, hopefully. And let's say Seth is living somewhere, then he'll have lived, you know, 67 years. So, of course you won't be in the same place. Like, what knowledge will he have, if any? You know?

[22:00] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[22:01] HAN CALDER: And will he be Seth? Like.

[22:03] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[22:17] HAN CALDER: Do you think about him every day.

[22:18] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Or.

[22:24] HAN CALDER: Have there been. Has there been a period where you're like, well, I haven't thought about him for.

[22:27] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I feel like there probably has been. That doesn't mean there are days when I'm not distracted by thinking about him. Doesn't mean that I didn't think about him. So I have. I have noticed, like, well, like, I haven't been. Yeah.

[22:45] HAN CALDER: At what point did that start happening that you weren't as distracted by him? Like, how many years after.

[22:54] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Hmm. My first answer is probably since I've been there past sometime. How long has it been there?

[23:11] HAN CALDER: I don't know.

[23:12] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Five years. Five years. Five years. Yeah. Is that crazy?

[23:16] HAN CALDER: So two years after he died.

[23:19] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, I. Yeah.

[23:29] HAN CALDER: For me is around. Remember, the five year mark was a little less. But then I remember the seven year mark. I remember there, you know, there's. There's.

[23:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: There's been good periods where it hasn't.

[23:39] HAN CALDER: Been as painful for me.

[23:40] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[23:42] HAN CALDER: But I feel like that was kind of short lived.

[23:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[23:48] HAN CALDER: And pain is. The pain is quite intense.

[23:52] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[23:53] HAN CALDER: But it feels more manageable for me.

[23:56] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[24:01] HAN CALDER: And that kind of makes me mad that, like, after two years of him passing, it wasn't such a thing. Well, I don't want to say that.

[24:10] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, I wouldn't say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? I mean. Okay, so, I mean, maybe let me paint you a bit different picture, too. Like, talking about stuff is one of the first things I talk about when I meet people. So, like, my first real job, like, in the interview, I talk about that.

[24:31] HAN CALDER: You talk about him being passed away.

[24:33] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Uh huh.

[24:33] HAN CALDER: Do you? Do you. So I do the same thing.

[24:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah.

[24:38] HAN CALDER: And then, like, afterwards, I'm always like, ah, crap. This is, like, kind of a lot to say to someone.

[24:45] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I know. I know. That probably felt really.

[24:49] HAN CALDER: I am so sorry. Not everybody types it up. Suicide in my first people I meet, a girl, you know, she's at my party and we're like making out. And then I talked to her about.

[25:00] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: My dead brother and I'm like, ah, crap. Yeah, yeah.

[25:06] HAN CALDER: How do you not talk about it?

[25:07] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah. So it's like. Yeah, I would say he stayed like a very big part of my life. My conversations with people. Like when people get to know me, like, it's one of the first things I talk about. I can think of like just one friend right now that I have that I haven't talked to about, but which is random, I mean. Yeah. Anyway, I can tell you more about that later, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically, like anytime I speak in public, like if I'm. If I have the chance to choose my topic, like he appears somehow. So.

[25:41] HAN CALDER: I. Yeah, I'm the same. And I think John is not.

[25:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[25:49] HAN CALDER: And that is like.

[25:54] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I don't know, man. I think I've probably told this to you and I think. I think I told it to John and because I think I told it John a say here too. But it's like. It's like I imagine that his grief is just so different than mine. It's like, you know how like, it's like since losing a brother, like we've learned, like, oh, man. Like, it actually feels good when people bring him up. You know? We think like people are so afraid to like bring up your lost loved one and they don't know what to say and so they don't say anything. Like, man, I just wish people would say something, you know? And I feel like I'm one of those people with withdeze John. Like I don't say anything because I don't know what he feels, you know? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a big. Yeah.

[26:37] HAN CALDER: How did he react? What did he say?

[26:39] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I can't remember. This is. This was years ago. It was like I just called him. I was like, hey, like, I don't feel. I'm afraid. I don't feel very close to. It was like right after I got married. Right. So, I mean, yeah, I was. I think I felt distant from all my brothers. Yeah. And I called John. I was like. I think maybe I just imagined doing this. I can't even remember if I really did it. But just like, I am just like, hey, like I don't know how. How you feel since. Since that time. Because it's. Yeah, it must be so different than what I feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's also like, it's almost. It's maybe some of it's out of fear, but also some of it's out of respect, like, because it's like. Yeah. What every brother feels is so, so different. That's what I learned. And I think I. Yeah. I hope it comes across that way. I think I have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[27:33] HAN CALDER: Do you think I miss him the most?

[27:38] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: No, I think John probably does.

[27:40] HAN CALDER: You think John is. What would be the.

[27:43] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I mean, I think the fact that, like, John doesn't talk about him means that, like, John misses. I think it's really hard. I mean. Sorry, it's hard, like, saying these things in public. Right. Because if this gets, like, broadcast or something, I don't want to say my brother doesn't talk about sin like John does, but it's like. But it's like you and I agreed together. I don't feel like I've ever agreed with John. And I think it's.

[28:09] HAN CALDER: Yeah, I still think I'm scared of John. Like, I think his older brothers go, I care too much about his opinion.

[28:18] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[28:19] HAN CALDER: And I. And I talked to him about this, and I have moments where I'm able to shed that.

[28:23] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[28:24] HAN CALDER: But I still care way too much what he thinks about me and what I'm doing in my life.

[28:28] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And, like.

[28:29] HAN CALDER: And then I'll tell that to him, and then he, like, why do you think that stupid. You know, he jokingly calls me stupid in that setting, and I'm like, it's those jokes that make me keep thinking this way, but. So I still think I'm, like, still afraid of.

[28:47] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[28:47] HAN CALDER: And I value his opinion more than, you know, the other siblings.

[28:54] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[28:55] HAN CALDER: Living siblings.

[28:57] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[28:57] HAN CALDER: I don't really, you know. Do you feel that way? Do you not care what the other ones think? I mean, you don't want to say.

[29:05] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: You don't want.

[29:06] HAN CALDER: You don't have to say.

[29:06] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: No, I think I do care about.

[29:08] HAN CALDER: What you're telling me. You care what Jamie thinks about your life.

[29:12] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Oh, yeah. Wow.

[29:14] HAN CALDER: I don't think I give two shits what she thinks.

[29:17] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I believe you. I could be like, yeah, that's a real strength. Not this, but anyway, people. Yeah.

[29:28] HAN CALDER: And what about. Do you care what Regan thinks about your life?

[29:33] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[29:35] HAN CALDER: Yeah. I think I care a little bit.

[29:38] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: But I think I probably came less about you.

[29:43] HAN CALDER: Yeah.

[29:44] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: What you think? I don't know, really. I think so. But maybe, like. Well, then we should talk.

[29:54] HAN CALDER: Well, here's some. So when I think about you thinking about me.

[29:59] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[30:00] HAN CALDER: Hold on. I've been thinking about this photo.

[30:02] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah?

[30:03] HAN CALDER: Are these things you.

[30:04] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I'm gonna hang these up. One of them is from you, actually.

[30:06] HAN CALDER: That picture of Jesus is from you.

[30:11] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: That's a good.

[30:12] HAN CALDER: This is this photo of Seth and Logan.

[30:16] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I'm just gonna do it right there.

[30:18] HAN CALDER: This is a painting that Seth did. And I think Logan's in this painting.

[30:22] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: No, no, this is. This is a real photograph of. Famous photograph. And he painted it.

[30:26] HAN CALDER: Oh, he. He painted.

[30:27] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: He made a painting of the photograph.

[30:28] HAN CALDER: But I think you're in one of these.

[30:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Could be. Oh, this is in a book that Alyosha has, I think.

[30:33] HAN CALDER: Yeah, this is great. This is. I think about that. I'm so happy you have this.

[30:38] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Good. Yeah, I'm gonna hang out. I haven't figured out how to train it or anything, but.

[30:42] HAN CALDER: Hold on, I want to see this, too.

[30:43] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Hey, Linda, I haven't.

[30:45] HAN CALDER: I love having you home. You are such a great, fun, cool brother. You bring so much joy. I have a better picture of Jesus I can give you. I would like to have. I think I'll need to find it.

[31:00] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Huh.

[31:02] HAN CALDER: Here's a photo of Jesus. Photo of white Jesus. I don't believe in Jesus anymore.

[31:09] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Let's be. That's.

[31:09] HAN CALDER: That's what's funny about me giving that to you.

[31:11] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[31:13] HAN CALDER: This is also Logan and Seth.

[31:17] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: So can we describe it if we're only on audio?

[31:19] HAN CALDER: Yeah, you describe this.

[31:22] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: So Seth had a. My. Sethe painted an elephant on his bedroom wall.

[31:29] HAN CALDER: He was, like, 14.

[31:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And for years, it just, like, continually evolved. The colors would, like, evolve and details would evolve. He got ripped by some blue or something. So there's a picture of me and him standing next to the painting with my thumbs up. I'm probably seven or eight years old, and he's probably 14 or 15, so he's got to be, like, 14 because that's.

[31:48] HAN CALDER: So I ran into John Sharp. Yeah, John Sharpe says he thinks about Seth every week.

[31:53] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[31:54] HAN CALDER: And John brought up this painting, and I pulled it up and I'm thinking, Seth is 15.

[31:58] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[31:59] HAN CALDER: John swears that he is 1213.

[32:02] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: That makes. So imagine. When did he meet Abby?

[32:06] HAN CALDER: 1616.

[32:07] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Okay.

[32:09] HAN CALDER: I think 16. John was on the mission. So that was 2001. 2000. So Seth was born in 84. No, 86. 86.

[32:21] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: No, 84, because I'm seven years old, younger than me. So Jonathan born 82.

[32:28] HAN CALDER: I thought Seth was eight years older than me.

[32:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: It's probably been nine.

[32:31] HAN CALDER: You're right.

[32:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Wow.

[32:32] HAN CALDER: Okay. No, because when I was eight, I thought he was 16 when he baptized me.

[32:39] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Oh, my gosh.

[32:40] HAN CALDER: This is so. I want this tattooed on me?

[32:44] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay. Okay, that's good. That's a good tattoo. Where. Where do you want Keith Perry?

[32:48] HAN CALDER: I know. I know. He and I have talked.

[32:51] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Okay. Yeah, yeah. How do you know he's doing? I think he changed his Instagram account.

[32:54] HAN CALDER: Yeah. I didn't know you got on Instagram.

[32:56] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I've thought of this tech you have, like, your personal Instagram account. You get tons of followers, and you.

[32:59] HAN CALDER: Flip it to, like, an art account. Yeah.

[33:01] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[33:03] HAN CALDER: So here's the problem I hate with Seth's art, is that it doesn't look good in black and white, and so I want black and white tattoos, and that's where I think. But this. John and I both talked about getting this one, but we don't have a full photo, so I have to fake this. I have to make this up.

[33:19] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[33:23] HAN CALDER: That'S good. That's good. That's really good. So, yeah, back to before I got distracted. Also, I love that you have this.

[33:35] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: That.

[33:35] HAN CALDER: He made this one, too.

[33:36] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This cut paper collage with me. Yeah.

[33:39] HAN CALDER: Or children's book.

[33:41] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Two of those. Yeah.

[33:42] HAN CALDER: Yeah. That's good. So when I think about you thinking about my life and what you think about me.

[33:52] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[33:53] HAN CALDER: I only feel support and love.

[33:58] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: That's an excitement, you know?

[34:00] HAN CALDER: Like, I don't feel like you're questioning or critical or disappointed.

[34:06] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[34:07] HAN CALDER: And so then I wonder, like, do you not feel that love and support or what do you feel when you think about me?

[34:19] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah.

[34:20] HAN CALDER: Thinking about your life.

[35:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. I think I haven't felt, like, any lack of good things from you.

[35:35] HAN CALDER: And it's okay.

[35:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I think maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe in the past, but I think. I think right now, and maybe it's, like, right now, it's because I'm just trying to take.

[35:46] HAN CALDER: Yeah, I think I'm okay with you. I think there's a. Yeah, whatever. Feelings you have are really valid. And I.

[35:53] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: You know, I think. I think what I meant by saying I think I would strive to impress you more than I feel a lack of. Yeah.

[36:08] HAN CALDER: You online think you're cool.

[36:10] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[36:18] HAN CALDER: I know I'm cool. So.

[36:22] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: The younger brother surpassed the older brother.

[36:25] HAN CALDER: I surpassed all the older brothers.

[36:28] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: I.

[36:28] HAN CALDER: Have, especially since I just died.

[36:30] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And we've got five minutes left. I wanted to point out a few just quirky things about where we are right now. Okay.

[36:36] HAN CALDER: You want to point out the peppers?

[36:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And some things you can't see. So we're in my very messy office. I've got my standing desk some art that I haven't hung up yet from Seth and other people hanging in my closet. I've got a string of peppers. These are Serrano peppers. They used to be green, but they've turned red as they've been, like, hanging there, drying. They say after two months or so, they could be dry. And then I'll round them in a powder, and I'll have the super spicy pepper powder. Cool. So if you're into developing your spicy.

[37:05] HAN CALDER: Tolerance, I have told you that, right?

[37:06] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: No. Oh.

[37:07] HAN CALDER: My goal is 60 to be able to have really spicy things because I cannot do anything.

[37:16] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: You want to travel the world? You got it. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, those are all the strong peppers that I'm not like, goal like that, but just like, okay, I can do it. Like, what can I use this peppers for? To increase my. I just want to use the vegetables I do this year.

[37:31] HAN CALDER: Would you ever do a ghost pepper with me?

[37:33] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Maybe. I've got a neighbor that has. Has a bunch.

[37:36] HAN CALDER: Has a bunch.

[37:37] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He only grows, like, ghost peppers and things that he says are spicy, like ghost peppers, which I didn't know existed. But the other thing, before we run on time through that window, my big, giant compost pile. Yeah.

[37:52] HAN CALDER: Today on the news. Well, I saw Nina post a video on Instagram about not throwing your pumpkins away because they don't compost in the landfills.

[38:01] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: In the landfills.

[38:02] HAN CALDER: Yeah. And I was.

[38:03] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: They totally did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38:04] HAN CALDER: Not in the landfills.

[38:05] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: And I made me think about it.

[38:06] HAN CALDER: You, outpost.

[38:07] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. We should save a lot of pumpkin season in this scandal. Yeah.

[38:12] HAN CALDER: You know, I do feel like I am a critical person, so I am, you know, sorry if that ever. I don't want to be sorry about that, actually. Yeah, yeah. But like, yeah. And like, but, you know, like, I'm happy you went to Oxford.

[38:27] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[38:28] HAN CALDER: Happy you quit your job, obviously. Like, I want you to be a farmer.

[38:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Obviously. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, like, so I'm doing things, like pursue these things and graduate. And so that's why I feel comfortable with you. I think if I was. If I was only, like, you know, if I was only acting according, like, all the pressures that are put on me, then I would feel weak, but because I feel like I'm exerting some pressure against.

[38:49] HAN CALDER: Yeah, yeah. And that's why I think I like that. And I think I noticed that a lot in myself that I push up against a lot of things. And I had a really good talk with daddy, like, 2 hours down, and I talked.

[39:02] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[39:02] HAN CALDER: And he just talks about how he pushes up against things. Right. And he didn't do these certain things. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm so much like my dad. And I think like Seth Regan, you know, they all push up against things. And I think, like, you know, I like that. And I think both you and I, when we go to church together, we would push up against things, and that was fun. And I. I value that in. Inside of us.

[39:29] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[39:29] HAN CALDER: So I don't. I don't think I want you to lose.

[39:31] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah.

[39:32] HAN CALDER: That.

[39:32] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Appreciate you, bro. Yeah. I love you. Nothing. I remember from south, he said, don't pat people when you give them a hug.

[39:46] HAN CALDER: Yeah.

[39:46] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Just tug of tight.

[39:47] HAN CALDER: Yeah. Or if I think I want to be like Dad, I pat them.

[39:54] LOGAN STEWART CALDER: Like Lynn. Don't pat me. Just hug.