Hannah Minkler and Nathaniel Winkler

[00:00] HANNAH MINKLER: My name is Hannah Minkler, and I'm 31 years old. Today is October 6, 2022, and I am at the KSUT radio station in Ignacio Colorado. My interview partner is Nate Winkler, and we do not know each other.

[00:17] NATE WINKLER: And I am Nate Winkler. I'm 38 years old. Today is October 6, 2022, at KCO. K c u t k s u t. K s u t. Ignacio. My partner is Hannah Minkler, and I have never met you before. All right, so flip over the cards. Question number one. That's right. And take turns. You go.

[00:47] HANNAH MINKLER: All right, Nate, what made you want to do this interview today?

[00:52] NATE WINKLER: You know, I heard on the radio a few times, like, ads for, you know, promotions for. For this from Storycorps for this. And I thought it was something that the country kind of needs. You know, right now, I have a lot of family that's on the other side of the aisle and a lot of people that I just, you know, I feel like I want to be friends with or I want in my life, but it's a challenge because I feel like people are almost deciding things based on political. Political party, and I wanted to contribute something to kind of try to bridge that divide. Oh, right. What made you want to do this interview?

[01:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Well, I first heard about it several months ago from my dad, who has actually done it now, and I didn't think much about it. And then he had applied, and then my boss had applied, and they both shared their experiences, and they said it was really amazing. So I considered it a little bit more. And then when I actually read more about how it works, I thought it would be a really interesting way to get to know someone else that could be potentially very different from me in a way that hopefully would be kind of neutral. And I honestly figured I would probably learn some things about myself, too, in the process. So I thought it'd become an interesting, interesting little thing about myself and about learning about other people.

[02:26] NATE WINKLER: Nice.

[02:27] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[02:28] NATE WINKLER: Beautiful. Okay, so flip over card number two. And these are your bios. So you'll. You'll read your partner's bio verbatim, and then you can look at the card. But essentially, you've already read the bio. So you've got your points of curiosity that maybe you've been thinking about, and you just ask. You know, once you've read the bio aloud, you ask questions based on. And you're not limited to one, but you feel free to ask as many as you want. Okay, you're on a roll. You go first.

[03:01] HANNAH MINKLER: All right. Hello. I am a father of four, husband, and small business owner, I moved to Durango two years ago. I have previously lived in many places, including Suriname. Suriname, okay. I wonder about that. Mongolia, Indiana, Oregon, and Los Angeles. I currently run a blacksmithing business in my home based shop specializing in home decor and hardware. Previously, I was in the restaurant industry, managing and owning several restaurants throughout the years. Life events that have shaped me. Having children, serving in the Peace Corps. I have so many questions.

[03:42] NATE WINKLER: Shoot.

[03:43] HANNAH MINKLER: Okay. Of the places listed here that you lived, which one was your favorite?

[03:50] NATE WINKLER: So Colorado doesn't count, I guess. Not her. You know, I love it here. I would have to. It's hard to say. I mean, they were all such different experiences, and they all had their advantages and kind of disadvantages. I would say the most. The one that I kind of get nostalgic about, you know, would be Suriname. I was there for two years, and it was during a kind of a. It was a life changing event for me. It really shaped who I am, you know, now. So I would say that's probably the. If I wanted to go visit somewhere, that would be where I would go back to, for sure.

[04:37] HANNAH MINKLER: And what took you to Suriname?

[04:39] NATE WINKLER: I was in the Peace Corps there. Yeah. And nobody knows where it is, so don't feel bad about that. Guyana, literally nobody, the entire country has about 500,000 people in it. It is between French Guiana and Guiana, in the kind of. If you follow the caribbean islands down to the coast of South America, it, like, it's right there. So, yeah, it's middle of nowhere, just middle of the jungle, you know, pretty out there.

[05:10] HANNAH MINKLER: That's fascinating. That's cool.

[05:12] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, yeah. It was an experience, for sure.

[05:15] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. And then how old are your children?

[05:19] NATE WINKLER: 1615. Four and one.

[05:23] HANNAH MINKLER: Boys? Girls?

[05:25] NATE WINKLER: All girls, except our 15 year old. He's the only boy.

[05:29] HANNAH MINKLER: Okay.

[05:30] NATE WINKLER: So, yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of. It can be challenging for me and him sometimes.

[05:38] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I'm sure. What's your favorite thing about being a parent?

[05:44] NATE WINKLER: Hmm. Just the ability to be there for someone and, you know, to see them grow and to be able to kind of have. Have an influence over who they're becoming. You know, it just. It gives me a sense of purpose that nothing else could ever. No job or anything else could ever give me.

[06:10] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I like that. That seems really meaningful and also a little daunting.

[06:15] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, no pressure. Very daunting. Very. There are times. Yeah. No, but overall, I. I don't even. I can't even imagine not having kids now, you know? But I. When I walked into. So the two older ones are from my wife's previous marriage. And I came into the picture when they were like, five and six, and I was actually just got back from Mongolia. Was not, you know, I'd been gallivanting around the world, was not ready to, you know, take on that, but I did, and I'm so glad I did, for sure.

[06:49] HANNAH MINKLER: Did you ever want kids?

[06:51] NATE WINKLER: I never even. I had never really thought about it, to be honest. You know, that's the other thing. Is it? It makes me a much better person because before I had kids, I think I was probably way more selfish than I am now. You know, I don't hardly ever even have time to think about myself now, where as before, that's all I thought about.

[07:12] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, that's interesting. Do any of them help you with blacksmithing?

[07:16] NATE WINKLER: No.

[07:18] HANNAH MINKLER: To which they did, no.

[07:20] NATE WINKLER: Yes. I have tried so hard to be like, oh, no. Oh, this is so cool. I've paid them, like, $15 an hour cash to do very simple stuff just because I wanted them to come in and learn, and they're like, this is terrible. Why do you do this? Yeah, no, no.

[07:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Bummer.

[07:37] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. But the four and one year old, they're still, you know, there's time. There's time.

[07:41] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[07:41] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[07:42] HANNAH MINKLER: And how did you get into blacksmithing?

[07:45] NATE WINKLER: I was in the restaurant industry, so I managed a restaurant in LA. And that's terrible work. I mean, it was. I'm a pretty high stress guy anyway. I was good at the job, but it just wasn't good for me. You know, I've been doing it for ten years, and I was always stressed working long hours, couldn't be there for the kids. So I just, you know, I've always kind of been into and good with my hands, and I just started kind of doing it. It's pretty cheap to get into, buy an anvil, a forge and a hammer and swing away. So I just started posting stuff on Etsy, and eventually, a couple years later, I'm like, hey, I think I can quit my job and just do this.

[08:29] HANNAH MINKLER: Wow.

[08:30] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[08:30] HANNAH MINKLER: That's really neat.

[08:31] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, I'm lucky. I'm lucky.

[08:33] HANNAH MINKLER: Do you have set designs that you do or do you take custom orders, cut?

[08:38] NATE WINKLER: Both. I have kind of production items that people just order, and then a lot of people contact me and they're like, I want this and this and this and this. Exactly like this. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna charge you a lot of money for that.

[08:51] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, right? That's really neat. Wow.

[08:55] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, it's fun.

[08:55] HANNAH MINKLER: So that's really cool. It's pretty unique.

[08:58] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's the man. Sorry to speak about you in third person. She's the master of the follow up question. Yeah, great questions. Yeah. Good at making conversation, but also, you know, very focused. Yeah. Do you want to take a turn at it? Sure. So I'm going to read this first. Right. So, yeah. Growing up on a working ranch outside of Ignacio, Colorado, has been one of the biggest influences in shaping who I am today. Our horse and hay operation taught me a great work ethic that I didn't fully appreciate until my mid twenties. After living in Idaho and briefly in Australia, my love of Colorado brought me back to the area and to my current role at the Durango Chamber of Commerce. I still enjoy going out to the ranch to spend time with my family and working and playing together. I have several questions as well. So the one that really kind of struck me is like, when or why? And why did you go to Australia and what did you do there?

[10:04] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, so I. I was living here in Ignacio and I was working at the Ignacio Library, which I loved, but I was kind of feeling a little antsy and needed to do something else. And my best friend that I grew up with from Ignacio as well, she had been living in Australia for, I think, at that time, about eight years. And she was always saying, like, just come over here, just come over, move over here. And I was like, nah, I don't know. And then, I don't know. For whatever reason, she finally convinced me. So in January of 2020, I moved to Australia, planning to be there for about a year. And it was great. I lived just outside of Sydney, and it was beautiful, and I loved living with my best friend and her husband, who's Irish. So we just had a great time together. And then Covid happened, and that was crazy. I feel like I finally kind of got settled in and I had a job that I really liked, and I figured out how to use public transportation and all that kind of stuff. And then all the big cities around the world were starting to shut down, Sydney included. And it wasn't quite the chaos that it seemed to be here, but there was still toilet paper shortages and all the same things. And eventually the prime minister of Australia just said, if you're, if you're not here as a, or if you're here as a citizen, but you don't have a job that can fully vouch for you during this time, we recommend that you go home because, I mean, citizens were losing their jobs, and, you know, so it was kind of chaotic, and that country is built a lot on tourism, and so then all of a sudden, there's all these people that don't have jobs, and it was like, what do you do? So it was highly encouraged to return home if you could. So within, I think, four days, I was on a plane home, and it was hard, but then I also had to think about, you know, watching all these major cities shut down and just being stuck in an apartment and all these kind of sad stories. I thought, well, I could be here or I could be at home on the ranch. So I came home after about four months.

[12:15] NATE WINKLER: Wow.

[12:15] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[12:16] NATE WINKLER: Wow. That's crazy.

[12:17] HANNAH MINKLER: Telling me. It was wild.

[12:19] NATE WINKLER: So do you ever think about going back now or.

[12:22] HANNAH MINKLER: I, um. I. I think eventually, probably not anytime soon, because my best friend Morgan, that lived there, like I mentioned, her husband is irish, and they just moved back to Ireland this year. So I went and visited him this summer. So that would have been my main reason to go back. But, I mean, I think I will at some point because I thought I had, you know, a year plus to explore, so I wasn't in any big hurry. So I didn't see as much as I would have liked to Orlando as you would just traveling, like, for a normal vacation.

[12:51] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Switch gears a little bit. I was also interested in the Durango chamber of Commerce and, like, what you do there.

[13:02] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. So I have worked at the chamber for coming up on a year, and I mostly do. I do a lot of, like, admin type tasks, and I help with events and memberships, so if somebody is a member, they want to be a member, I help with that.

[13:17] NATE WINKLER: I need to talk to you.

[13:18] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I know. You should. Absolutely should. It's great. I really love the chamber. The chamber is, I guess part of the reason I wanted to work at the chamber is I really care about community and connection, and I feel like the chamber was just, like, a broader reach than what I had at the library because I love that as well, for those reasons. And it's been great. I've met so many people, and it's really fun, and I really like that I can help advocate for small businesses. I think that's huge, and it makes a community, and there's, you know, economic impacts and all that, so, yeah, I really like it.

[13:56] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. My experience with, I haven't done it here, but I had a business in Oregon, and the chamber there in that town, like, I didn't know any. I was 19, and I was like, how do I file a business permit? What do I do? And they, like, walked me through everything. So you guys are saints?

[14:14] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[14:17] NATE WINKLER: Awesome. One more question on this. I know I don't want to expend forever, but. So your young life, I guess I'm interested in, like, I have a mule now. It's my first horse ish experience, and I just wanted to know, what was it like growing up on a ranch? That was kind of like a childhood dream of mine that I wish I had that childhood. So what was that like? What's your perspective on it?

[14:45] HANNAH MINKLER: It was amazing and hard and fun all at the same time. So we have about 250 acres, and we live on a place that was homesteaded in the late 18 hundreds. So it's beautiful. There's some old buildings and massive trees and lots of big green pastures and horses. And so as a kid, I was outside all the time, and I used to ride my horse out by myself, like, way up in the hills, and, I don't know, build forts and run around and play in the ditch. And so I had a lot of fun, and it really taught me to be independent and creative. And then there was also a lot of work that came with that because I'm the youngest in my family, so all my siblings were pretty much out of the house by the time I was about ten. So it was me and my parents, and so a lot of the chores fell on me. So I. You know, there's some chores I was okay with, and there's some to this day that I still hate.

[15:52] NATE WINKLER: Mucking stalls.

[15:53] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. It was digging up weeds. My dad would have me dig up weeds. That was awful.

[15:58] NATE WINKLER: My kids ate that, too. How did he get you to do it? Because I can't even get.

[16:03] HANNAH MINKLER: I don't even. That's a great question. I don't know. Guilt tripped into it.

[16:08] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Right.

[16:09] HANNAH MINKLER: I don't know. But, yeah, it was great. We had horses, and so I grew up basically on a horse, and my mom is especially passionate about horses. And we would take our horses up into the high country here, and we'd go on pack trips. So we go for, like, a week at a time. And it was still, to this day, some of my all time favorite memories. So special. Yeah. So I love it. And, I mean, it taught me a lot of responsibility. I think by the time I was about 15, I think that was the first time I watched the ranch totally by myself for about two weeks. Yeah. And take care of how many horses. Yeah, we. So we board horses as well as having our own. So we get up to about 35 is the most we'll get to. So feeding and irrigating, it's a lot.

[16:51] NATE WINKLER: For a 15 year old.

[16:52] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, it was. But, I mean, I'm. I'm glad. It was a great experience. I love it. So, yeah, I mean, there was a time that I kind of wanted to maybe a different route in life away from agriculture or just rural living, but definitely I've come back to it, and I love it. I love it so much. So it's very special.

[17:13] NATE WINKLER: That's awesome. I've had. That's a similar. I think it's like the grass is always greener, right?

[17:19] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[17:19] NATE WINKLER: You know, I grew up in rural area in southern Indiana. Very small. Mostly farms, though. Corn. Corn farming.

[17:28] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[17:29] NATE WINKLER: Not nearly as cool as, you know. That's why I'm saying, like, that's, like, cool rural. Mine's. You know, but then, you know, I wanted the bigger cities or travel the world, and then I did that, and then I ended up back, you know.

[17:43] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[17:43] NATE WINKLER: I want land. I want animals. I want.

[17:47] HANNAH MINKLER: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[17:51] NATE WINKLER: Cool. Okay. So you guys could flip up over card number three if you want. Sure. And you can. Yeah. Feel free to move stuff around and make room. Okay. And we are 18 minutes in. Okay. Faster, slower. Okay. Okay. I'll go first this time. Tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you and what to did they teach you?

[18:26] HANNAH MINKLER: I would say the first person that comes to mind is my dad. And he's. I would say he's had the biggest influence on me because he's. He's a great example. He's very diplomatic and he's very kind. I don't think I've ever heard him raise his voice, ever, at anyone.

[18:47] NATE WINKLER: Wow.

[18:48] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. And I. He's very smart, and I like that he's hardworking, so he didn't actually finish college, but he's probably one of the best examples of self taught and a learner. He's always curious. He's always reading books or listening to different things and sharing what he learns. So I always appreciate that about him. And he's extremely hard working and very driven. So on top of being a rancher, which he, as he likes to say, he was married into, because he grew up in Denver, and then he moved to rural Colorado in his early twenties, and then later in his life, he met my mom and kind of picked up more, like the ranching side of things. So not only is he a rancher, but he is an entrepreneur. He started and owned several of his own businesses more in the construction realm. And, yeah, he always has, you know, time for other people. He's very involved in his church, and, yeah, I just. I really appreciate the way he carries himself, and I always. Sometimes, especially now, I am, if I find myself getting a little flustered or upset about something, I just think, how would my dad say this? So diplomatic. So I really appreciate that about him. Yeah, that's cool.

[20:09] NATE WINKLER: Did you think that? Do you. How did he influence, like, your. Your being? You know what I mean? Like, who you became? Do you think he influenced a lot of your choices in life, or.

[20:22] HANNAH MINKLER: Definitely. Definitely. I think I've been told that I'm like him in some ways, and I always really appreciate hearing that. That's, like, the biggest compliment that anyone could give me. But, yeah, he's definitely. I always remember if I had to help him on a job site or something, which was usually one of my jobs, like early jobs or even a couple years ago, I did that with his business, and he'd have me do something or even around the house or at the ranch, and he would always be like, all right, if I am going to come check your work now, am I going to approve? And it just always was such high standards. Oh, I don't want him to find something. So then always go back. So now I even think of that. Okay. What would he approve of this?

[21:07] NATE WINKLER: Wow. So he set all your. Basically your standards of high standards.

[21:12] HANNAH MINKLER: Hard work, but definitely work hard, play hard. Both my parents are like that, so he's probably one of the hardest workers I know. Probably works too much, but he also knows how to play hard. And he's a great explorer and outdoorsman. And so my parents have traveled, you know, a bit around the world, and then we go backpacking or taking horses out or camping. So I just feel like there's so many. Maybe it's his love of learning and curiosity that I really like and I want to keep embracing.

[21:44] NATE WINKLER: Wow.

[21:44] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[21:45] NATE WINKLER: Sounds like an awesome guy.

[21:46] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, he is.

[21:49] NATE WINKLER: Do you have anybody else? Any, like, any other people that have influenced you?

[21:53] HANNAH MINKLER: Hmm. I would say there's. There's so many others. I don't have, like, a very specific one per se, but I do feel like in every time, like, chapter of my life, so to speak, there's always someone, or at every job, I feel like there's usually someone that influences me or that I look up to. And one of my favorite sayings is, if you're the smartest person in the room. You're in the wrong room. And I really like that. So I try to kind of keep that in mind with both jobs or social circles or whatever. So I feel like because of that, I tend to find people that influence me in positive ways that I try to emulate, which can be a little daunting, but it's good. Keeps me on my toes.

[22:38] NATE WINKLER: Something I wish I would have learned.

[22:40] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, for sure. So I would love to know the same about you. So tell me about one or two people in your life who've had the biggest influence on you.

[22:50] NATE WINKLER: I should have thought about this at some point. I, you know, I don't want to. I want to make sure that, you know, I'm trying to speak to you had such a positive experience, you know, with your father and that, and I don't want to copy you, but my dad as well, so I was adopted on my father's side, I was very young. I was, like, a year and a half old. So I don't really remember my biological father, but so my dad now, the guy who raised me, he's my dad, but very similar, I think, in a lot of ways. He wasn't quite as adventurous or any of those things, but in a very tumultuous upbringing, he was always like a rock, you know what I mean? He was always very even keeled. And when everything else was going awry, I just remember him being calm, you know? And he's also just got an outlook on life. Like, the way he's very jovial, super gregarious. He's kind of a goofball and at times embarrassing. Like, I remember as a kid just constantly being embarrassed. I mean, he would. In our hometown, there was one stoplight, but if we would drive through town, if he picked me up, and he would roll down his window and he would just yell really loud. He would just yell my name, and he thought that was hilarious, especially if he saw kids my age. Yeah, no comments. After, just my name, it's like, okay, now everybody knows that I ride around with a crazy person, you know? But it's that kind of stuff that I think, you know, I was so embarrassed when I was a kid, and I, like, hated it. But now I look back and I'm like, I do that stuff to my kids all the time because it's like, you know, I look back, I'm like, that's a good perspective. Like, don't take things too seriously, you know, relax and just have fun with life. And so I would say he's the number one influence, especially from my young childhood. And then, yeah, I mean, later in life, I think my wife, you know, is probably my number one influence. We've been together for nine years. And like I said, when I met her, I wasn't very. Didn't know what I wanted. I'd been, like I said, traveling and just kind of floating around. And she taught me what's important in life and what matters, and to so many things, I can't even begin to tell you. But I'm a different person because of her in so many ways. And, yeah. So I would say they're probably my biggest, too. And the funny thing is, they're so similar. Like, they get along great. I'm like, oh, my God, did I marry my dad?

[25:44] HANNAH MINKLER: That's what they say, right? That's what they say, yeah. Yeah. It seems like, you know, both of us having our dads because they're mellow, I feel like that's so. I don't know. That just says a lot. I think people are drawn to that.

[26:00] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[26:01] HANNAH MINKLER: It's really grounding.

[26:02] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[26:03] HANNAH MINKLER: And comforting, too.

[26:04] NATE WINKLER: I'm a dad, and I'm so not mellow.

[26:06] HANNAH MINKLER: Really? I was gonna ask. Okay.

[26:09] NATE WINKLER: I am not mellow. Ask my wife. She's the mellow one. I'm the one that's. Yeah. So hopefully they'll like me in a different way. Maybe. I don't know. We'll see.

[26:16] HANNAH MINKLER: But I have to know. Do you yell their name out the car?

[26:19] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, of course.

[26:20] HANNAH MINKLER: Oh, okay, good.

[26:21] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, no, all the time. And I actually, funny enough, my dad's coming to visit this weekend and. Not prom. Homecoming. And I was gonna have my dad chaperone, but unfortunately, the process was, like, too long and laborious. But, yeah, I definitely. I've coached or not coached. I've refereed. They play soccer, so I've been a referee. And definitely try to embarrass them as much as possible.

[26:50] HANNAH MINKLER: My parents always said that's our job.

[26:53] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Embarrass you. It is, yeah.

[26:55] HANNAH MINKLER: They're good at it. Right? They're so good at it.

[26:58] NATE WINKLER: It's the most fun part about being a parent. It's embarrassing. Children.

[27:01] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. That makes sense.

[27:05] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Well, you guys see the question number four?

[27:08] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[27:19] NATE WINKLER: Could you briefly describe, in your own words, your personal political values?

[27:27] HANNAH MINKLER: I would say if I was sitting on a fence that was in the middle and someone were to push me off, I would probably fall on the more conservative side. But I definitely value aspects of kind of both sides. I don't think there's really a right answer to things, especially in this day and age where things are really complicated. Yeah, I would say I'm kind of in the middle, but not just for the sake of just not caring about things, but just because I feel like there really are lessons to be learned on both sides. My dad ran for county commissioner a couple years ago, and he is unaffiliated. And that really taught me a lot about, I guess, both sides. And not necessarily in a negative way, but just how, you know, you hear ideas or concepts on both sides. And I think they're, they're really good. And we get so caught up in which side are you on or, you know, which camp are you in that we don't realize that, you know, there's actually maybe more in common on both sides than we think. And so that's, that's what I try to keep in mind. And when I think about just my, I guess, my political values, and I guess that would just be what do I genuinely think is better for people? It's, I guess, kind of, I would say another value, too, is responsibility. I definitely believe in responsibility and accountability and community. It's kind of, that's what I'm looking for when I think about politics and policies and. Yeah.

[29:14] NATE WINKLER: Do you stay pretty, like, are you, where would you consider yourself as far as how important are politics in your life?

[29:23] HANNAH MINKLER: That's a good question. That's so hard. And they do matter. The more, I guess, the more the time goes on. And that's probably natural for, I would say, most people. But I definitely go through phases where I'm like, I'm gonna stay more involved and I'm gonna stay up to date and read, you know, what's going on. And then next thing I know, I'm like, I can't handle this anymore. And then I'm like, totally tuned out. Right. So. But I would say I have learned from my dad running for a county office that local politics matter to me more. So I do pay attention and then also working for the chamber, you know, that's very present and important to what we do. That's what we try to pay attention to. Policy in particular, that pertain to business. So I do. I do believe that you can make a difference, you know, at least on a local and statewide standpoint. A lot of people might beg to differ, but I think you really can see the difference if you pay attention. And then I also have started paying attention to policies more on a state level in terms of agriculture because I'm part of the farm bureau federation, and it's a. It's a nonprofit group, and we advocate for agriculture, you know, on the state level and also on federal level, but I primarily stay involved locally and then on the state level, so I kind of go, you know, I'm interested, but I don't. I don't let it upset me enough to kind of ruin. Ruin my week or anything like that. I try to keep it in perspective.

[31:05] NATE WINKLER: So I just want to add, and this is just based on experience, that if you can share your specific political convictions, it helps with the conversation, because you guys are also trying to explore difference if you can, not trying to throw you guys in toward the difference or anything. Like, I'm not trying to, like, instigate something, but I also. I just know that sometimes, you know, we're used to being polite about difference, and we're still gonna be polite with each other. Right. Like, that's part of the goal, too, but it's also to articulate explicitly. So I know that you maybe have some other political beliefs that you shared with me.

[31:52] HANNAH MINKLER: Right.

[31:52] NATE WINKLER: So don't feel. Don't feel too. I mean, like, I'm not asking you to say anymore.

[31:56] HANNAH MINKLER: You can.

[31:56] NATE WINKLER: You can leave it at that if you want, but you can ask follow up. Actually, I was gonna say, I think I know what you're talking about. And I actually had a question about. One of the things that you were talking about is you were talking about, like, responsibility.

[32:08] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[32:09] NATE WINKLER: And in my mind, you know, the first thing that came to my mind was, like, welfare or government programs. Like, what's your view on those? What do you. You know?

[32:19] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so I guess when I think of responsibility, you know, a lot of it comes back to how I was raised. And, you know, with. I guess with responsibility can come a lot of pressure, but it also can reap a lot of rewards. And so I really believe in responsibility. It's really important to me, and I really value that in people or organizations, you know, of. Of any caliber. So, um. But then I would say with, like, welfare and groups like that, that is hard. I mean, that's one of those areas, I will admit, that definitely challenges me and my thinking. And, you know, whichever sides I hear, sometimes I can feel myself getting a little, like, ruffled, and I have to be like, okay, why am I feeling that way? Um, I would say to me, I feel like a lot of those programs were started with very good intentions and very good reasons, and I do think that they're there for a reason. And they serve a purpose. Say, my biggest issue with them or maybe with the people that use them or the people that I don't feel like are using them properly and kind of abuse the system. And so that's, you know, that's frustrating to me as someone that values, like I say, hard work, responsibility. I mean, I. Like, in Covid, for example, when I came back from Australia, I had moved out of my place. I quit my job. I mean, I had really had nothing to come back to. I didn't have a job, and it was a little bit of a struggle. And there were several people that told me that, you know, now with COVID you can apply for unemployment, and you can actually make more money than if you go get a job. And, you know, we all heard that. And I I just. I didn't feel like that was okay, because I'm. I have the skills and I have the ethics to go out and make my way. And, yeah, it's hard, especially here. I mean, things are expensive. I get that. But I just felt like that should be. Those funds should be reserved for people that really, truly needed it. And so I guess that's kind of my feeling across the board, is if someone really, truly is in need and they're really trying, and it's nothing long term, it's a temporary help, then I'm. I'm all about that. I mean, that's, you know, I. Community is very important to me, and I think that is part of community is helping each other. So. And I realize it's. It's complicated. You know, it's just. It can be messy in a lot of ways, and sometimes it's case by case.

[34:53] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Yeah.

[34:56] HANNAH MINKLER: So let's.

[34:57] NATE WINKLER: Let's flip the tables on him. Yeah. You know, let it out a little bit. Thanks for the follow up. That was great. And after this question, you guys are kind of on your own, so you can explore. And the goal is to kind of.

[35:13] HANNAH MINKLER: Explore those differences and points of view.

[35:15] NATE WINKLER: But then also get to know each other. You guys have done a lot of that. It's been an amazing conversation already in terms of. I mean, I pre interviewed both of you for an hour, and I didn't get the story about dad shouting his name. I was saving that one. All right, so go ahead and ask him questions, and then you guys are, you know, off and running.

[35:35] HANNAH MINKLER: Okay. Could you briefly describe, in your own words, your personal political values?

[35:42] NATE WINKLER: I'll use the same analogy as you, because I think. I don't think there's too much difference, but if I was on that fence, which I'm kind of on that fence. I would probably fall to the left, you know, just since we were just talking about it, like, you know, I don't think it's fair that I share my views on, you know, government subsidy programs and things like that. And, you know, I mean, I worked, I was in the Peace Corps for two years with a nonprofit. I've worked for Mercy Corps, Red Cross, all kinds of organizations. And I've seen a massive amount of wasteland, you know, I've seen. And, you know, living in LA and seeing there's a, there's a lot of money that is not, is being abused or is not being used properly. That said, you know, I agree with you. I think that it is hard to get it to the people that deserve it, you know, like, how do you. And I'm not saying I have an answer. I'm just saying that's the hard part. And so, you know, when you can't really, you can't just go through somebody's life and be like, how hard have you been trying to deserve this? You know what I mean? And so what's the choice of government? Do we pull it and say, ah, these are all just people that have been abusing it? Or do we say, well, it's being abused to some extent. It might not be the most efficient thing, but here's the good it's doing. So, you know, that's kind of my take on it, but I totally see that side of the coin. You know, I've had this conversation with a lot of people, like my mom, who's very far right, and I've had it with my younger sister, who's very far left. And if they talk about it, it's Armageddon is happening, you know, but I always try to see both sides. And there are so many arguments on the right that I can be like, you know, I might not agree, but I can totally see that perspective. And the same with the other side, you know? So, yeah, I guess that's where, where I stand on that. Yeah, sure. Like a. Well, okay. So there's so many, so many beliefs.

[38:13] HANNAH MINKLER: I know it's hard to answer.

[38:17] NATE WINKLER: I mean, do you have anything that you're kind of curious about, like that you would want to ask somebody that, you know, is kind of on my side of things that you're kind of like, what do they really think about this or what, you know, you want to point me in a direction or question?

[38:35] HANNAH MINKLER: Well, my question isn't quite that, but I'm curious if living abroad has shaped where you stand.

[38:43] NATE WINKLER: Totally.

[38:44] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, tell me about that.

[38:46] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, I would say all of my experiences, like, pretty much 90% of any human that would have gone through my experience in life would end up being a liberal. You know what I mean? It's just working in the nonprofit sector, being a volunteer, doing that, it's just. It lends itself to that. And I think that whole experience, to me, seeing so much poverty and then seeing so many, it's just like, here in the states, you see the income inequality gap. But overseas, in a lot of countries, especially third world countries, it's like that, but, like, times ten, you know, instead of people being poor and living in trailers or living in the ghetto and then having really rich, like Elon Musk's, which is a huge gap, but then you have, like, starving children that are dying within the next few days, and then a guy driving a beamer by those kids and being like, you know. And so I think that experience. Yeah, number one to me was just like, incoming inequality is probably my number one issue, and it just seems wrong to me.

[39:57] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. Do you have any. I mean, not that I'm expecting you to solve all the world's problems, but do you. What are your thoughts on income equality? Like, any ideas? Cause that is really hard.

[40:11] NATE WINKLER: And this is where I get, like, super liberal, like, Bernie style, you know, I think that in general, the Republican Party, like, I. There were many things fiscally or many things that I think, you know, I agree with. But the one big thing is that I've just seen so many tax cuts that end up cutting taxes for rich people, and then they try to pass it off as, like, oh, we're helping this. Oh, we're cutting taxes. But really, they're not helping the people that are voting for them. You know what I mean? And I just feel like a lot of these right wing politicians are actually duping the people that their own people, you know, because, let's be honest, I mean, from what I've seen in this country, the poorest and the people with the most, you know, to lose by these big tax breaks for corporations or people like that are rural communities, you know? Yes, there's a lot of poverty in the ghettos of big cities, but there's also a lot of people that are voting for people that are doing these tax cuts are the victims. You know? So I would just say, stop doing that and tax the rich more.

[41:32] HANNAH MINKLER: Okay. I was gonna ask, do you think people should be taxed based on, I guess, how much they make, or should be like fair tax, like percentage.

[41:42] NATE WINKLER: I mean, if I had, like, a whole platform that was real simple. I love that Colorado is like a flat tax state. I think a flat tax, closing loopholes is huge. I think if the federal government could get onto, which is actually a republican idea, a flat tax with, with how, like. So it's a certain percentage, even that, with closing all loopholes, like corporate loopholes. There's no write offs or anything. Whatever you bring in a percentage of that, whatever that percent is goes to the government no matter what. That right there would already, and I could be wrong, but I think that would probably make a pretty big shift towards, you know, lower income people. And, you know, like, Jeff Bezos paid less taxes than a school teacher last year. You know, it's insane.

[42:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[42:37] NATE WINKLER: So, you know, that just kills me.

[42:40] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. It's kind of hard to even comprehend that. I mean, to really think about that.

[42:44] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[42:45] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. The difference. Yeah.

[42:50] NATE WINKLER: I don't know if you remember these going deeper questions, but is there anything you admire about people on my side of the aisle? Do you want me to ask her something about answering?

[43:01] HANNAH MINKLER: It gives.

[43:02] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Yeah. Like, don't, don't. You don't need to even follow suggestion. Just want to keep the conversation even. So there's something that comes out of the conversation here and also just, we're talking about tax policy. So bring it back to you guys and where you feel and where you're coming from. Well, I mean, I know personally about both of your biographies, and I know that you guys have a lot of life experiences that inform your beliefs. And so, you know, there's opportunity back there for you guys. And if I think of something in the moment, I may chime in, but. Well, let me. It's great stuff. Let me ask, like, I mean, what do you think about that? You know what I mean? Like what? I just, like, that's kind of my perspective. And please disagree with me and tell, you know, like, what do you really think about that viewpoint?

[43:51] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I think, you know, I like kind of like the flat tax, if I understand correctly, you know, where you're just kind of paying based on your, what you're bringing in, so it's more equal. I agree with that. Yeah. See, that's where I like this.

[44:10] NATE WINKLER: The problem is we agree too much. The other part of it is, you know, you, you work on behalf of and advocate on behalf of small businesses, and there's, there's that kind of. But you have a small business, so you guys actually have a lot in common. And I knew that coming in here. Maybe one suggestion would be he said something. Actually, no, I'm going to start with Hannah because Hannah hasn't been talking as much in, so the recent part of the conversation, Hannah has talked with me about some evolving perspectives that she has. But one of the things that she said early in the conversation was that if you pushed her that she'd fallen to the conservative side. So maybe what tilts her conservative? In what sense is she conservative personally? And how did those, she also talked about how it makes sense to her. Right. Like she's, she really wants to connect her own. I think that was a really, you know, interesting way of framing it, that, that she's open, but she also has the things that sort of ring true for her. So exploring her conservatism. Yeah. Interesting. If she wants to go there.

[45:29] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, no, it's fine. I just feel like I have stitched her. I'm like, what do I think? I don't know.

[45:35] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Okay. And if that's not the right, again, these are just suggestions.

[45:39] HANNAH MINKLER: Well, no, that's, I mean, that makes sense. Yeah.

[45:42] NATE WINKLER: Or however you want to play. Yeah. I mean, I am curious as to, like, what makes you fall on that side. You know, like, what are the things about conservatism that draws you?

[46:03] HANNAH MINKLER: I think one of the big things is kind of power to the people and smaller government. And I'm not one that says no government. I don't believe in that. I think we still need some sort of governing body or rules that we can, for the most part, hopefully agree on, and that unites people, to a degree to live in harmony for the most part. But I, yeah, I guess it kind of comes back to some of the same things I brought up before, but it's kind of taking care of yourself. You know, if you're so dependent on, like, I don't know, the government will take care of this or this and that, it just kind of becomes this thing that's just out there. It's kind of almost too nebulous. And I think I really like conservative values in that way because it just bring it down to hard work, like give it your, your best and then you can step out and help other people. But that is where I appreciate, I guess, more of the other side. They're very empathetic, but I think conservatives are, too. And I think sometimes people assume they aren't. And I think that really isn't a fair statement. Again, I think if you come back down to the base of either extreme for the most part, I think people want the same things. You know, we want to live in a country that we love and have freedom to enjoy the things that we love. And that's something I'm really passionate about. And obviously, we have different approaches, but I think it all comes down to the same values and principles. But, yeah, I think, you know, freedom is another big thing. It kind of disheartens me when I, you know, when people aren't proud to fly the american flag like that, kind of. I have a hard time with that. And, and it's not that I'm ignorant of the issues in our country. I mean, those are obviously prevalent, and there's many issues, but I still think we as a country are pretty special, that we have as many freedoms as that we. That we do have. And that, you know, again, talking about, like, local politics, if I were to. Well, one, I have the freedom to run for an office. You know, I'm a young female. I can run for an office that's not. Everyone can do that. And I can vote. I have a say. I can talk to my politicians, and I believe that for the most part, if I have something to say, that it, you know, maybe won't get heard, but they're listening. I can talk to people. So I just believe that, you know, freedom is still very important and special in this country. And I feel like when I've. I've traveled other places, there's differences, and sometimes they're better. There's other countries that I'm like, oh, why aren't we doing that? But then I still just kind of have this feeling that the freedoms that we have in this country should unite us more than tear us apart. And it makes me really sad to see that they're tearing us apart. And I just think that maybe we have communities that are starting your home with your family and then your town or your groups, your church, whatever. But I kind of wish that Americans would view America as a community and treat each other like a community. So that's. Yeah, that's something that's really. It gets to me, I guess that's important to me.

[49:30] NATE WINKLER: So I have a hard question for you. You're gonna love this. So I totally agree with 99% of that. But here's where I have a problem with, and why I fall on the other side is I, too, think that freedom is huge, and that's what this country is about. And I know that the right side really uses that as a rallying cry, like freedom, freedom, freedom. But then the republican party, only when it's what their base wants to be free. For example, pro choice, pro life. You know, you want freedom, but then not unless it's within our christian values. You know what I mean? And so to me, it's a little bit, I hate to say it, but it's a little bit, like, hypocritical, you know? So. Yeah. What do you think of that?

[50:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I know that's a, that's a good point. That is hard. And I, that's, again, where I'm sitting on the fence more because I don't think, you know, that, like you said, there is some hypocrisy in that. Like, we want all these freedoms, but yet here's what you can and can't do. But I would say that's on both sides, the hypocrisy. I see that a lot on both sides. And it, it makes me very frustrated. I did grow up in a very christian house, and so that's been, as I've gotten older, I've had to kind of ask myself, like, where do I stand? Not how I grew up or my family or friends, but where do I stand on some of these issues? Being that conservative background is there, it's prevalent. And I have had to push myself on that. And I think just like most of us would say, like, why we're having this conversation is when you get to know someone that maybe has a different view or that experience, it really opens you up. And so I guess kind of where I'm going with that is with pro choice. I used to not really agree with abortion unless it was the case of rape or incest. And then someone that was very, is very near and dear to me chose to have an abortion when we were young, about 19. And I remember in that moment, I still remember where I was when she told me that she was going to do that. And it was really hard for me because I love this person so much. And I knew that, you know, if she were to keep this baby, it would be a really hard life, really hard future. And I'd say there wouldn't be good that come out, obviously, but it'd be very hard. And so I supported her, but I just kind of had this, like, warring almost like this little voice in the back of my head from how I grew up, like, but that's wrong. That's not what you believe. So then fast forward about twelve years later, you know, all the ro versus Wade. And I do think that women should have the choice. And so I agree. And so, you know, there are some of those aspects that. Yeah, it is hypocritical. And I. So that's. That is a challenge. And that's where I have to, again, even challenge myself, like, flip the script. What if you were on the other side of it, and what would actually feel like. And I just wish people in general, on both sides would do that and genuinely do it, not just say they are, but, like, really, what would that actually feel like? You know, or, like, for me, you know, like, oh, my gosh, what if I had a pregnancy that just. I really didn't want and felt bad about, you know, how would I feel if I could or couldn't, you know? So. Yeah, awesome.

[53:26] NATE WINKLER: That wasn't really a question. That was a statement. Okay. That was great, though. That was really. You guys are doing great. I have a suggestion for you to turn the tables on him. Okay. He mentioned, and it was easy to overlook when he was talking about his dad, he said that he had a really tumultuous childhood. I don't. You noted that.

[53:49] HANNAH MINKLER: I did, yeah.

[53:50] NATE WINKLER: And I don't know whether your manners might keep you from going there, but, you know, it's definitely fair to kind of dig into that, but also to connect kind of how your childhoods, because you were just talking about that, too, about how your childhood has sort of affected your politics, but also how you've kind of started to work with that, you know, impact. And I feel like that's a really kind of interesting thing to explore with Nate as well, if he wants to go there. So. Yeah, if you want to ask about that and then should never have told you anything.

[54:23] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I noticed that, too. I did pick up on that. Yeah. So earlier when you were talking about your dad, you mentioned and you had a tumultuous childhood, and I was just curious about what that was like for you.

[54:41] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, well, you know, I don't like. I don't like to. I don't want to sound whiny. You know what I mean? That's one thing. I do have that characteristic as well. That's kind of like you. It's like, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and figure it out, you know? But, yeah, I mean, I'll just give you a quick rundown. You know, I was. My parents actually were. Did pretty well, decently money wise, when I was young, but for some reason, I didn't really fall in with that crowd. Well, I quit school when I was in the fifth grade. I was just getting bullied terribly, getting in fights all the time. And finally my mom was just like, this isn't good for you. But they had just started a business, and they were pretty much occupied with that. So I was kind of left to my own devices. And this is Indiana, so there's no laws on, like, you have to take a certain test and you have to. You don't have to do anything. I mean, you just say you're homeschooled and the state leaves you alone. So I essentially had no schooling whatsoever. My mom called it unschooling from fifth grade on. And, you know, that there were a lot of other kids, or not a lot, but a few other kids in my hometown that also weren't in school, most of them in the trailer park in that area, and, you know, with a lot of drugs and booze and that kind of thing around, so. But they were the ones that accepted me, you know, and to this day, I have friends that I grew up with in trailer park and in that, you know, with dealing with really hard stuff that I connect with or connected with then. So, yeah, I guess the big thing is, by the time I was about 15 or 16, I had developed a pretty healthy meth addiction, and I was struggling with that, moved to Oregon and decided that that wasn't going to be my life path. Made the change and kind of came out of it. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot I'm skipping over, but essentially, you know, it was just my interactions, especially with my peers at a young age, was very. I didn't have a lot of positive interaction. You know, it was either drugs based or it was abuse based. And so there was just. It caused me a lot of, I think that liberal word trauma that a lot of people hate. But, you know, the thing is, is acknowledging it, you know, and being able to get past it. I mean, I did that all on my own, but, yeah, I mean, it definitely informed my political beliefs, you know, because I. That's why income inequality is so important to me, you know, because I saw what, you know, those kids go through, and it's very easy for someone that had a decent upbringing, good role models, you know, good peers, to say to someone that didn't, oh, well, you know, you just gotta have responsibility and have these things. But if you grow up in some of those environments they don't like, it's not something that they can even see, you know what I mean? Because they've never seen a role model that is responsible. They've never seen any of these things. It's not part of their consciousness, you know? So is it should we just leave them to the wolves because they're not responsible and they're not doing these things because they don't know how, you know? Or do we try to teach them how or do we just give them money? And that's, again, where I kind of. You can't just do the handout thing because I have seen a lot of people on welfare and things like that that just developed this and they. But how do you teach someone that grew up and had a childhood that didn't. Didn't learn that, you know?

[58:39] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I think that's. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That is a good reminder. Who, I guess I have a couple questions. One, who is your. So was your dad your responsible, kind of role model person that helped?

[58:55] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

[58:57] HANNAH MINKLER: Okay.

[58:57] NATE WINKLER: Yeah.

[58:57] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[58:58] NATE WINKLER: I would say, you know, him and. And also, I mean, I'm still kind of like 50 50 on the nature nurture thing.

[59:06] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[59:06] NATE WINKLER: As well. You know, I don't know where I stand on that either. So maybe some people are just doomed and others aren't. I don't know. But I also think that the people around you and. Yeah. So I think my dad, him being, you know, a solid force of having hard work ethic and, you know, working night jobs in factories to get our family through and seeing what he sacrificed when I was young, you know, before all the other things. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

[59:33] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah.

[59:33] NATE WINKLER: I wonder what it would be like without. If it wasn't that.

[59:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. Well, actually, that's. Well, that's such a good point, too. I mean, that's. That's a good perspective to look into. So I would be curious, too. You know, you said that you also don't agree with handouts, but teaching people that maybe need those services, what type of. I mean, since you've been there firsthand and you've gone through it, what are the top things, you think? Yeah, I know. It's so hard.

[01:00:03] NATE WINKLER: It's such a hard question. You know, it's like there are so many, everybody, every politician, everybody's got what they think is the best answer. But one thing I always come back to, especially when I have political conversations, I always remind myself, and I sometimes remind other people, my mom, if we're arguing, especially, I'm like, America, when this country was founded and we were one of the first real democracies, and it was called the great experiment, and we're not that old of a country, and it is an experiment, and we haven't figured it out yet. And so one thing that frustrates me is, especially in today's climate, is that everybody has an attitude like they know everything or they have all the answers or their guy is the right guy and everybody else is an idiot and there's no room for compromise or there's no room for thought, you know? And I think the media is to blame for that. I think there's a lot to blame for that. But, yeah, it sucks. Yeah.

[01:01:13] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah, there's.

[01:01:17] NATE WINKLER: I had a thought, and that's why we're here. Right.

[01:01:21] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, exactly. Well, no, I agree. When you said, you know, that you wish that people would kind of just compromise and listen to each other. It's not just, you know, my guys. Right. And so everyone else is wrong, because I agree. I really hate that. I mean, just even, you know, us talking and thinking about how different our perspectives are from childhood, it just makes me wonder, you know, like, if, speaking of an experiment, you know, if you and I were to sit down and come up with some sort of, like, welfare program of our own or a nonprofit, it makes me curious what the two of us with our opposite kind of perspectives, in a way.

[01:01:56] NATE WINKLER: Right.

[01:01:58] HANNAH MINKLER: What. What we could come up with. And, you know, obviously, there's. I don't have the answer now, but it's. I think it's a good thought process for people to think about, and I wish more people would do it because sometimes there aren't easy answers or it's as complicated as you want it to be or as simple as you want it to be, in a way. So.

[01:02:17] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Do you think I. Something I've thought about, too, that I'm curious as to someone with your kind of upbringing thinks about. Do you think that location has a lot to do with the difference in the divide in the country and perspectives? Do you think rule versus metropolis and things like that are part of the thing, or what's your perspective on, you know, on the location and how that ties into political beliefs?

[01:02:54] HANNAH MINKLER: That's a great question. You know, I feel like my instinctive answer, you know, just like, knee jerk reaction to be like, oh, yeah, rural teaches, you know, so many great values because you're connected to the land or, you know, you're connected maybe a little bit more with these small pockets of community, like, kind of helping your neighbor. Maybe people get to know each other a little bit more. But I don't know that that's necessarily true. Growing up in Ignacio, you know, it's actually very low income and very diverse. Being part of the southern indian tribe and a lot of Hispanics and whites. And a lot of people actually maybe not know this about me, but I was, you know, a minority in terms of race in my school, but then, and also maybe a minority as far as just growing up kind of middle class, there was a lot of people that had a lot less than me and then working in this town, I've seen that. And there's still, you know, people that grew up a lot more than I did. And I guess I'm saying that just because it's still, we're still a rural place. So I don't know. I think a lot of it is environment, and I think that does play into it, but also environment of your home life, you know, whatever your situation is, not even in terms necessarily of finances, which plays into it as well. But, you know, like you said, the people that are around you, if you have that, that role model. So I don't know what my answer would be. In some ways I want to say yes and some ways I want to say no. But I'm curious to flip that on. You like what you think?

[01:04:39] NATE WINKLER: Yeah, it is a hard thing, but I'm pretty, I think one of the big problems that we're not looking at as a country is that I think that if you look at republican values or right wing values and you look at how that applies to someone living in a rural situation, it makes a lot more sense. If you try to apply those values to someone living in south central LA, it doesn't make any sense. Vice versa, if you like the idea of small government versus big government, it makes sense that you don't need a lot of government when you're living out here because you don't even hardly interact. People do take care of them, do their own thing, you know, whereas in the city you're so close and you have so much, you know, you depend on everything around you. You depend on the roads being, and there's so much more contribution that the government has to do in a city, you know, so I can see where people that grew up in a city say, like, oh, less government, but the government does this and this and this and this and this. And we need more funding because all of the schools are overcrowded and all these things are happening. But schools out here aren't overcrowded. You know, they're overcrowded in south central. So the city problems, I think democrats are trying to respond to them and I think country problems, republicans are trying to respond to them, but nobody's trying to talk to everybody. You know what I mean? That's my perspective on that, I guess.

[01:06:15] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. That does make sense for a lot of reasons. And I was just thinking, I guess I think that's a good example, too, of, you know, one size doesn't fit all. So sometimes you do really need to think about, you know, in this area, this might make sense, and in this it might not. So I think that's a really good point, too. It's a good perspective.

[01:06:42] NATE WINKLER: I loved your thought about you guys getting together and solving. I was just going to bring that back. I was like, okay, so now we got, you know, we're going to come up with a government that is city. Like, we do certain rules for cities and certain rules for rural, and we're going to do these kind of programs. This is nothing to do with this conversation specifically with the project. There's mostly, you guys are some of the youngest people who participated.

[01:07:09] HANNAH MINKLER: Participated in this.

[01:07:10] NATE WINKLER: And that's one of the reasons I.

[01:07:11] HANNAH MINKLER: Wanted to get you guys together, is.

[01:07:12] NATE WINKLER: That you, you have your lives, you know, ahead of you more than a lot of people who joined us so far. And, and you have kids, right? And you may or may not have kids, but you're, you know, you're. You're looking at the future as sort of a big open vista of possibilities. I don't know about that. I'm almost 40, but yes, I get what you're saying. But, yeah, I just was thinking about that and the way you handled that. Well, I think it would be interesting to bring these two perspectives together. Like, there's something to synthesize in some ways. You guys, as younger people, younger on the younger side, have more at stake in this. Right. I think everyone or a lot of people are frustrated, but your future, you.

[01:08:02] HANNAH MINKLER: Know, maybe depends on this more.

[01:08:03] NATE WINKLER: And I. Yeah, I just, I didn't know if there was something about the future that would be worth talking about.

[01:08:11] HANNAH MINKLER: But did you guys look at the.

[01:08:13] NATE WINKLER: Kind of the questions that provided questions and think about which ones you liked or are there, is there anything that, you know, because we are at an hour and eight minutes, so we're almost reverging on 20 minutes overdem. Okay. So we kind of want to turn toward home, you know, like the future. Got it. Yeah. Just kind of head in that direction. But I love, everything you guys talked about was really engaging, and I feel like you. I just, like, in the last, like, 15 minutes, it was like you guys kind of broke through to a new kind of chapter in the conversation. They're going, they're on the wall.

[01:08:51] HANNAH MINKLER: I know. We finally got there.

[01:08:54] NATE WINKLER: So do you want to look at closing questions?

[01:08:56] HANNAH MINKLER: Do you want to think about it?

[01:08:57] NATE WINKLER: You want to talk about it? Or do you just want to kind of go on instinct? I mean, I do have, you know, I have this list, if you guys want to look at it and kind of prompt your ideas. I realize that it is kind of a little bit artificial in a conversation to say, okay, time's up, time to close the conversation out. But that's one way to do it. I do have also have these cards here. Yeah. Those are all things that you guys have been doing. Maybe these aren't. Well, I had a question for you about the future that's with everything going on right now, because I think about this a lot with my daughters and with my kids. What kind of world are they going to live in? What do you see happening? You know, what do you see? Like, if it's bad, if it's good or what would be the good thing to happen to fix the country so that everybody's not going to kill each other? You know, that's a great question.

[01:10:00] HANNAH MINKLER: I think about that a lot as well. Sometimes I wonder if it's like a pendulum, you know, maybe we're coming out on one extreme. And if that's the case, in some ways, I hope so, because hopefully that means we're coming kind of back to a central spot because, you know, you hear people all the time, they say they're so sick of the divide and voting party line and whatever it is, but yet it's still, we're still so extreme. So I I don't know. I really would hope that moving forward, we can kind of come back to a place where we can listen to each other again. I think there's some, some barriers that I see that could, you know, hinder that. I think technology is great as it is in some ways. You know, we talked about, like, the news hinders that. Or, you know, there's just so much, it's so easy to throw just a comment, you know, on a discussion board or something without having a face to face conversation. That's the thing that really worries me. But I do think, I hope, I really do hope that we can come back to something and kind of remember, you know, why we're human, why we care about all this stuff in the first place, why it makes us crazy and important. Yeah. So I kind of hope we can come back to that. And I guess if history repeats itself, I guess that's why I'm hoping that we're on the extreme end of a pendulum swing and it's going to come back towards the center.

[01:11:34] NATE WINKLER: Me too.

[01:11:36] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah. What do you think? I mean, like you said, especially being.

[01:11:39] NATE WINKLER: A parent, it's tough, you know, obviously, I don't know, and I have no, like, you know, like, I really hope the same thing, but I fear that, like, history is going to repeat itself, as in, like, if things keep escalating the way they are going now, if this division doesn't start regressing and keeps progressing, like, some real bad stuff could happen. You know what I mean? I worry about that for my kids. And so I guess that's why I'm here, and that's why I want to try to do what I can to try to bridge that gap. But at the same time, it is hard. It's hard when I like both sides of the aisle. You know, everybody, it's not about doing what's right or wrong. It's about getting reelected. It's about telling whatever crap you want to tell or whatever corporation is donating to you, you know? And so I see it's hard not to just keep seeing all the corruption, all the lies, all the, like, biased media, all the Facebook and Instagram and all that, like, harshness and meanness towards one another that no one would ever say face to face, like you said, absolutely nobody would ever do that. That's why, you know, it's like, we could easily be online and being like, you know, but here it's like, so maybe that's what we need. You know, we need to be face to face more and off social media more, you know? But then I have two teenagers who are constantly on it.

[01:13:26] HANNAH MINKLER: Well, yeah, so I was gonna ask you. I mean, we're depending on your generation. You know, some people might say that we're the next generation. Take this on. But again, you know, the people younger than us, like, your kids are. So what do you, as a parent, like, what do you try to teach them? Or what's. Like, what are some of your biggest takeaways? You hope that they learn, I hope.

[01:13:48] NATE WINKLER: You in the future, I hope that they understand the value of face to face conversation, and they understand the value of real friendships. And I hope that they can differentiate those two things. It's hard not to. It's hard because sometimes it could hinder them if I ban them from social media. Like, that's not the future. I have to acknowledge the fact, as much as I might not like it, that that's the future. You know, that is where the world is moving. And, you know, I just have to try my best to try to show them that there's also other things, you know, out there. And this is not how normal people talk to each other face to face and, you know, try to say the things that I see that's wrong with the world, you know, like this is watch out for this and, you know. But, yeah, I hope. I hope that this is growing pains, you know, I hope that the human race is still pretty young. This country is still pretty young. I hope that this is us being adolescents as humans, you know what I mean? And making stupid decisions and being dumb. And as we evolve and as our society evolves, we can become better.

[01:15:05] HANNAH MINKLER: Yeah, that's very well said. I also really like what you said about teaching your kids about friendship. I think that's a really good perspective. I didn't really think of it that way, but that's true because it's. Again, it's listening someone. And when you are just thinking about my friends, I don't necessarily agree with everything, but I love them and I can see where they're coming from. And so it makes you more, maybe can't be empathetic, but sympathetic for sure. So I think that's a great way to look at it.

[01:15:30] NATE WINKLER: Yeah. Thanks.