Heather Labbe and Dalit Guscio

[00:01] DALIT GUSCIO: My name is Dalit Guscio and I'm 48 years old. Today is Monday, June 20, 2022, and we're in Missoula, Montana, and here with me is Heather, my friend.

[00:14] HEATHER LABBE: And my name is Heather Labbe and I'm 47, not 48. And today's date is Monday, June 20, 2022, and we're here in Missoula, Montana, and I'm here with Dalit my friend. So, Dalit We're here to talk about our friendship. I think we've been friends for over 20 years, and I wanted to maybe talk about when we first met. Do you remember when you first met me here in Missoula?

[00:47] DALIT GUSCIO: I don't know if I remember the specific day. I just remember the occasion and the. Did I interview you for being my tech for when I was doing my masters in the biology department?

[01:02] HEATHER LABBE: You probably did. I would imagine you did, but that's not how we met.

[01:05] DALIT GUSCIO: Okay. How did we meet?

[01:06] HEATHER LABBE: So, we met when we were. You were a teaching assistant, and I was a new. I just moved here to Missoula, and I had decided that instead of being a primatologist like I thought I'd always wanted to be, I wanted to become a biologist. And so I took an ecology class here at University of Montana, and you were my teaching assistant, and I was your clearly most favorite student by far. Since you don't remember me.

[01:35] DALIT GUSCIO: I think I'm remembering now. I think I'm remembering it. Tell me more.

[01:40] HEATHER LABBE: So, I remember because it was an honors section, and that was new for me because the previous university I've been to didn't offer honor sections. That's something that University of Montana does. And you were the teaching assistant, and I chose to be in that section because we got to go on field trips. And all I remember the first time I really noticed you was we were on a field trip and you were scrambling up and down this hill. And I don't know if we were doing soil sampling or what we were doing, necessarily, but I just remember you running up and down this hill, and I was thinking, gosh, this woman is, like, kind of a badass, actually.

[02:19] DALIT GUSCIO: Thank you. Yeah. And then. And is it then that we somehow.

[02:27] HEATHER LABBE: Started and then I was such an outstanding student. I'm sure I got a pluses on everything that you decided. And I must have had such an incredible work ethic that you decided you wanted to hire me as a research assistant working on your vole project.

[02:42] DALIT GUSCIO: That's really when I remember you. Like, this is the. For me is that summer with you and Erin and I out in the silly swan.

[02:52] HEATHER LABBE: So tell me about that. What was that project we were working on?

[02:56] DALIT GUSCIO: So, that was my master's project, and it was my second summer of. Second and final summer of data collecting. We needed to. I was looking at how redback voles use coarse weed debris. So fallen logs in old growth forests. And I'm just thinking about your song, Madonna. Song of voles, for my defense. But anyway. And so Aaron and you and I spend the summer up in the silly swan. And my most vivid recollection of that summer was how I was always messy and stinky and dirty, and you were always gorgeous with a bright white clean shirt every morning, ready for field work. And I was asking myself, how on earth is she doing this? That's my.

[03:59] HEATHER LABBE: And now you know my secret, right?

[04:01] DALIT GUSCIO: I do know your secret.

[04:01] HEATHER LABBE: What is my secret?

[04:02] DALIT GUSCIO: Bleach.

[04:03] HEATHER LABBE: Bleach.

[04:04] DALIT GUSCIO: Lots of bleach, which is bad for the environment.

[04:08] HEATHER LABBE: That is true. But it gives you very white field shirts.

[04:12] DALIT GUSCIO: And so for that fieldwork, we had to open small traps for the voles, check the traps in the morning, hold. Retain the voles during the day because they're active at night, and then shake them in fluorescent powder and release them. And then we would do that in the evening. And then the following night, we would go with a black light and find their trails and flag it. And then the following day. Gosh, it was such a long process. We would. During the daylight, we were able to analyze the information that we found with these flags and where they were in the vegetation.

[05:02] HEATHER LABBE: So tell me about where we were sampling. What kind of habitat was that?

[05:08] DALIT GUSCIO: I know where you're going, Heather.

[05:09] HEATHER LABBE: Do you? Yeah. How did you choose the stands we were sampling in, in particular?

[05:16] DALIT GUSCIO: So redback voles are native to Montana and live in old growth forests. So we needed the most preserved old growth forest in the silly Swan valley. And I should say that the Sillyswan valley is one of the only places in the lower 48 where all wildlife that was present pre european settlement is. Still. Still exists. And so.

[05:47] HEATHER LABBE: And what kind of wildlife is that exactly?

[05:50] DALIT GUSCIO: Redback voles. Lots of birds, mammals, insects.

[05:56] HEATHER LABBE: What kind of mammals?

[05:59] DALIT GUSCIO: Heather's trying to make me say bears.

[06:02] HEATHER LABBE: What kind of bears?

[06:04] DALIT GUSCIO: Grizz. Also grizz.

[06:05] HEATHER LABBE: Grizzly bears.

[06:06] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. And mountain lions and black bears. And wolves.

[06:13] HEATHER LABBE: And lynx.

[06:14] DALIT GUSCIO: And lynx. And bobcats.

[06:16] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah.

[06:16] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. And so we had to. It was, like, really dense. You get into these forests and you walk four steps. And more often than not, we would know where is north and where is the other person. And so when we're putting these traps on the ground, then I was pretty adamant that we stick with the same line that we put down so that we get acquainted with that. Go ahead, Heather. You can take it from here.

[06:44] HEATHER LABBE: Well, I was just wondering how you chose where to put your field assistant's transacts.

[06:52] DALIT GUSCIO: I truly don't recall choosing that, but Heather's feeling was that I always put it on the most far away line, and Heather was terrified of bears.

[07:07] HEATHER LABBE: Terrified. Terrified of bears.

[07:11] DALIT GUSCIO: So, I don't know, can we jump really quickly through that one day that you were.

[07:16] HEATHER LABBE: No. I think we should maybe talk about how we were baiting the traps. They were live traps. We were baiting them with a mixture of peanut butter and oatmeal.

[07:25] DALIT GUSCIO: Yep.

[07:26] HEATHER LABBE: And it was very common to pick up a trap when we were checking our traps and see these giant puncture holes in them from canine teeth, because bears would bite into them to see if they could get a little snack. And we would often, I would be on the farthest transect from the car because the car is always, like, the safety zone, right? Yeah. I would have the farthest away one, and then we would mosey back and, you know, get our sorted rodents in place, and then we go back at night and let them go. And when we had to do the black light, you couldn't have any other light. You just had to crouch down low and have this black light and start flagging the trail. And I remember the other field assistant and I. This was shortly after that Blair witch project had come out. Remember that movie, scary movie?

[08:23] DALIT GUSCIO: No.

[08:23] HEATHER LABBE: You didn't watch scary movies?

[08:24] DALIT GUSCIO: No, I'm not watching horror movies.

[08:27] HEATHER LABBE: I did. And one thing that I had not known prior to moving to Montana was what a mountain lion sounds like when they're calling to each other. So I was running my transect, and Erin was running her transect, and we were, I think it was, what, 20 meters away from each other, supposedly.

[08:48] DALIT GUSCIO: We're pretty close.

[08:49] HEATHER LABBE: And I started to hear this screaming in the middle of the night. And I thought it was Erin screaming, and she thought it was me screaming. And it turned out it was mountain lion screaming. And so at that point, I had taken the safety off my bear spray, which is the backstory to that. I took my safety off the bear spray because I thought, any minute, I'm gonna have to spray this killer mountain lion coming in or grizzly bear or somebody or who knows what, in the middle of the night. But it turned out it was fine. And we went back to the car, and I forgot to put the safety back on. And so the next day, we were out doing our vegetation sampling.

[09:30] DALIT GUSCIO: Daylight.

[09:31] HEATHER LABBE: Daylight. And I had one of those big foresters metal clipboards, and I was resting it on my bear spray. And all of a sudden, this horrible burning sensation enveloped me, and my eyes were watering, my fingers were stinging, and I literally started rolling on the ground, screaming, screaming. And it was. I had bear sprayed myself. And for millimeters, I was so terrified.

[10:01] DALIT GUSCIO: And for a millisecond, Aaron. And I thought maybe it was a mountain lion again, but very quickly realized that you were screaming and ran to you only to hear you scream and yell, guy just got sprayed with bear spray.

[10:19] HEATHER LABBE: I got.

[10:21] DALIT GUSCIO: And we couldn't do much more than just give you instructions and kind of giggle inside.

[10:29] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah, laugh, laugh. She means she was laughing.

[10:33] DALIT GUSCIO: It was really funny. It was really funny. Take off your. It was also. It's mosquito land, right. And so, like, take off your raincoat and take off your don't touch your face walk. And we walked you towards a.

[10:49] HEATHER LABBE: So helpful to have people screaming at you while they're laughing when your face is melting off from bear spray.

[10:56] DALIT GUSCIO: This is how our friendship started.

[10:58] HEATHER LABBE: It is. Yeah.

[10:59] DALIT GUSCIO: It was.

[11:00] HEATHER LABBE: I always like to say you were the world's worst boss. I hope you're one of my best friends.

[11:08] DALIT GUSCIO: I loved her from day one. I didn't understand what was the stress. I loved the screeching of the mountain lions and the finding crash traps. But clearly, I was not aware that that was so scary for you.

[11:23] HEATHER LABBE: I know. I had nightmares for over a year after that of being stalked by grizzly bears, my dogs, being attacked by mountain lions, and all sorts of post traumatic.

[11:36] DALIT GUSCIO: I have to say that we became friends.

[11:41] HEATHER LABBE: Definitely. We were friends then.

[11:43] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to make sure.

[11:45] HEATHER LABBE: Secretly hated you.

[11:48] DALIT GUSCIO: I always loved you. Wait, but let's summarize that summer. Cause I don't remember how you managed to get me. What bet did I lose?

[11:58] HEATHER LABBE: So when we were. You were in grad school. I hadn't started grad school yet. That was the year before I started grad school here. Your advisor was trying to get you, like, I think, out and about more or something, and he was trying to get you to try something, some kind of new food. Maybe it was the smoked Elkhart.

[12:25] DALIT GUSCIO: Well, it could have been.

[12:26] HEATHER LABBE: And then you told him that he wouldn't try new things, I think. And from here to there, we had made a bet that he wouldn't try sushi, and he tried sushi and loved it. And so you had to dress up and come to a tea party at my house because we have very different tastes. You have a background that probably didn't involve a lot of china cups and tea parties and scones growing up, so I thought it would be funny to invite you to a tea party. And you dressed up in a very tight sweater that you stuffed your bra.

[13:06] DALIT GUSCIO: That you gave me.

[13:07] HEATHER LABBE: That I gave you and stuffed your bra and wore a wig that you gave me and wore makeup, which you never do.

[13:13] DALIT GUSCIO: Didn't you put that makeup on?

[13:15] HEATHER LABBE: I think I did put the makeup on you. Yep. And then you had a tea party, and I took pictures. And then at your grad defense, I put the pictures up on the picnic. Big celebration.

[13:28] DALIT GUSCIO: Big picture.

[13:29] HEATHER LABBE: Blown up pictures so everyone could see.

[13:32] DALIT GUSCIO: Really, really good friends.

[13:36] HEATHER LABBE: But then you got me back with. At my grad defense. Big time.

[13:41] DALIT GUSCIO: What? What did I do?

[13:43] HEATHER LABBE: You played the vole song.

[13:44] DALIT GUSCIO: Well, yeah, that, uh. Do we have the vole song? I wish we would have brought it.

[13:50] HEATHER LABBE: No.

[13:51] DALIT GUSCIO: So, for when we were doing field work. I don't know. Was it then that Madonna was singing the vogue song, or was it. It was already.

[14:03] HEATHER LABBE: I thought it was like the eighties.

[14:04] DALIT GUSCIO: I know.

[14:04] HEATHER LABBE: Okay. Sorry.

[14:05] DALIT GUSCIO: And that shows you how well. Yeah, and so we constantly sang. We both love Madonna, and we sang vogue, and then we're like, oh, my gosh, we could make a song vo rather than vogue. And from here to there, we made the words for the song. Come on, vole. I can't remember. And then I managed to convince Heather to record it, and Heather recorded that song for me, which I played for my defense. It was awesome. But I also had it played. I wasn't here when you defended. I was.

[14:44] HEATHER LABBE: You gave it to.

[14:45] DALIT GUSCIO: Back in Israel. I gave it to your.

[14:46] HEATHER LABBE: My thesis advisor, Ken.

[14:47] DALIT GUSCIO: To your advisor? Yeah, so that they would make sure that they played you singing voles. Yeah, for your desert. Your defense. She's lovely. Really great friends.

[14:59] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah.

[15:00] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah.

[15:01] HEATHER LABBE: Good time.

[15:06] DALIT GUSCIO: So, fast forward. I was gone when you were doing your masters. I was back home.

[15:12] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah, most of the time.

[15:16] DALIT GUSCIO: And then I came back for a little bit more of grad school. And you were still here.

[15:20] HEATHER LABBE: So where's home? Where did you go?

[15:23] DALIT GUSCIO: Israel. And we still kept in touch. And I even came in between grad school and grad school. I came back and stayed with you. Do you remember that? Yep. And came back for grad school. You helped me with bringing Romy the dog from Israel.

[15:46] HEATHER LABBE: I remember picking Romy up. It was a Spokane airport, wasn't it? You guys flew into Spokane, and it's a blur drive you. It's a blur drive you from Spokane with Romy.

[15:59] DALIT GUSCIO: And we've been here since then. Since 2004, we both have been living here in Missoula, which is pretty crazy.

[16:17] HEATHER LABBE: And we've both gotten married. You've had two kids that I've gotten to watch grow up into beautiful human beings.

[16:26] DALIT GUSCIO: Sometimes beautiful most of the time.

[16:32] HEATHER LABBE: So far, so good. Anyway.

[16:33] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah, I guess so.

[16:34] HEATHER LABBE: You've seen me go through a career change.

[16:37] DALIT GUSCIO: Heather married us. She married me.

[16:40] HEATHER LABBE: I did. I was your officiant. Yeah.

[16:44] DALIT GUSCIO: You also were the one that supported me through getting my citizenship.

[16:52] HEATHER LABBE: That's right.

[16:53] DALIT GUSCIO: Do you remember that?

[16:53] HEATHER LABBE: I had to vouch for you. Boy, was that a mistake. Us government, if you're listening.

[17:00] DALIT GUSCIO: Oh, my gosh.

[17:00] HEATHER LABBE: I took it all back.

[17:05] DALIT GUSCIO: But you. Oh, my gosh, what am I doing here with you? But I have to say that I'm coming from a really strong, solid family back in Israel. We call it the tribe, and so we're very committed to each other, regardless, good and bad and whatnot. And for the most part, you have been that for me here, because I don't have my family, my blood family here. And so your presence here, through all the stuff that we've gone through, good and bad, have always been a source of being able to go to sleep and feeling kind of like, you know, like, here you go. I'm gonna tear up. Damn it. But this sense of safety, this sense of, like, if shit hits the fan, whatever that means, then you're here for me, grizz or no grizz.

[18:11] HEATHER LABBE: I feel the same.

[18:13] DALIT GUSCIO: And that's awesome, because we're so different, and we're coming from such different. Which is kind of crazy. Such different cultures and different. I'm coming from a relatively big family. Coming from a small family. Yeah, that too, if you want to talk about it. And we've. I think we've clicked from day one around wittiness and critical thinking and not accepting any kind of bullshit and being politically active and driven, independent women. So, yeah. Damn, I'm glad you're here. Don't move to Canada.

[19:05] HEATHER LABBE: That's where my people are. Well, I feel the same. I feel like you've always been someone who I can count on in any situation, even if a grizzly bear was breathing down my throat. Hopefully, that won't happen. Yeah. So tell me about what keeps you here in Missoula. I mean, besides my fabulous company, obviously.

[19:48] DALIT GUSCIO: I wanted to start with that. Of course you, Heather.

[19:54] HEATHER LABBE: Because it's a long way. Tel Aviv to Missoula, Montana.

[20:01] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. Dang, Heather. What keeps me here? Inertia. My kids, their dad that's here. Work. And. Yeah, it's easier to stay where you are than to do something new. What keeps you here?

[20:32] HEATHER LABBE: Family obligations. And I love. I love Missoula, our little bubble of Missoula. I love the community and the people that I get to interact with more and more these days. I guess now that Covid's on the downturn, mostly, anyway.

[20:55] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. I should reiterate and say that Missoula is an amazing place. It's not like I'm feeling like I'm stuck here in any way, shape or form. It's a beautiful little, small planet in a insane world, so. For sure. And a great place to raise kids.

[21:17] HEATHER LABBE: I think you can feel stuck and still love the place that you live.

[21:21] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah, absolutely. And you said you're. Where are you from originally?

[21:28] HEATHER LABBE: So. I'm originally from California. And then I lived. I went to school in Colorado. I lived in Utah for a little while and then ended up here 21 years ago.

[21:45] DALIT GUSCIO: And what is family then that keeps you here?

[21:49] HEATHER LABBE: Well, we moved. My husband and I moved my parents here from California when they couldn't really function on their own anymore. So we have my parents here and then my husband is a fourth generation montanan, so he's got a very large extended family here that keeps us rooted.

[22:13] DALIT GUSCIO: Right place.

[22:14] HEATHER LABBE: Yep. My extended family is in Canada. That's because I'm a dual citizen, as you know.

[22:25] DALIT GUSCIO: That's why you're eyeing up Canada every time something here bugs you.

[22:30] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah. Well, and plus, that's just where Paul and I see ourselves living when we're.

[22:38] DALIT GUSCIO: Aren't there grizzly bears in there?

[22:40] HEATHER LABBE: There are grizzly bears there.

[22:45] DALIT GUSCIO: Sorry. Just saying.

[22:46] HEATHER LABBE: But there's grizzly bears practically in our backyard here in Missoula nowadays, so.

[22:50] DALIT GUSCIO: That's true.

[22:52] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah. Have to permanently carry bear spray with the safety on.

[22:56] DALIT GUSCIO: The safety on, please. Safety on. And. Yeah, that would be a good idea. What are you. Can you tell us a little bit? So you did your master's in the same department that I did, so. In organismal biology and ecology, right?

[23:13] HEATHER LABBE: Yep.

[23:14] DALIT GUSCIO: And then what did you do after that? Here in Missoula?

[23:19] HEATHER LABBE: I taught for years at the university and then decided, after years of constant budget crisis, to make a career change because I was non tenure track faculty. So I decided to go into healthcare. So I went back to school in my mid forties to become a physician assistant.

[23:44] DALIT GUSCIO: So now I can really call you.

[23:46] HEATHER LABBE: My doctor, not just like, I'm not a doctor. I'm a physician assistant.

[23:51] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah. Still can still call you Doc.

[23:55] HEATHER LABBE: You could call me master. Sure. I'm a double master. Two master's degrees.

[24:01] DALIT GUSCIO: Sure, sure. Master. Heather, that's lovely. So I often. I've done it before because Heather used to teach at the university, anatomy and physiology. So she could tell you, like, every tiny little bone or muscle or anything in your body. She would know the name for it and what it's attached to and what can happen wrong with it. And that's why I used to call her doc before she got her padded degree. Is that a degree or.

[24:35] HEATHER LABBE: It's a certification.

[24:36] DALIT GUSCIO: Certification. And so I always would call Heather. Hey, Heather, my earlobe is hurting. What? You know, I did this. What do you think is that? She's like, well, I'm not a doctor, but blah, blah, blah. And so now I can actually call her. Really?

[24:54] HEATHER LABBE: I was just googling, like, web empty while you were on the phone with me.

[24:57] DALIT GUSCIO: That's awesome. Are you still doing that?

[25:02] HEATHER LABBE: I'll never tell. Okay.

[25:04] DALIT GUSCIO: That's okay. It still works for the most part. Everything she tells me when I call her with these questions is spot on. It works. So thanks for that, too. Webmd or not, Heather. Also, here's something I remember. Heather always loved gardening, but only for flowers. And she would get frustrated when I would. She would suggest for me to plant flowers. And I'm like, if I plant something, I want to be able to eat it. And with the years, Heather is planting much more food than I am and less and less flowers.

[25:48] HEATHER LABBE: Heather, that is really an interesting transition that we've made, actually, because I do remember that I always admire, you were very into gardening before it was even on my radar for food, vegetable gardening. And I would do, like, a tomato here and there, but mostly it was dahlias and gladiolas and all different kinds of flowers. And you thought I was nuts.

[26:13] DALIT GUSCIO: Yep. Still a little bit.

[26:16] HEATHER LABBE: And I thought, why don't you just go to the farmer's market in the summer and buy vegetables? And now it's so much different because you're asking me about what kinds of flowers to plant, and I'm basically obsessed with vegetable gardening now.

[26:33] DALIT GUSCIO: Absolutely. You're like a half time farmer.

[26:38] HEATHER LABBE: Well, I do have two garden plots at the community garden, which is kind of excessive.

[26:43] DALIT GUSCIO: And your parents backyard. And your backyard.

[26:44] HEATHER LABBE: And I do garden in my parents backyard. And I garden in my own backyard. Yeah.

[26:48] DALIT GUSCIO: So Heather can feed a tribe.

[26:52] HEATHER LABBE: It keeps me busy. It's like therapy.

[26:55] DALIT GUSCIO: It is cheaper.

[26:56] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah.

[26:57] DALIT GUSCIO: Well, with you? I'm not sure, actually.

[26:59] HEATHER LABBE: That's true. Although it is cheaper now that I grow from seed rather than buying starts.

[27:07] DALIT GUSCIO: True. What are your memories? Because you're one of the few people in Missoula that's still here that has met my parents. Do you remember that?

[27:19] HEATHER LABBE: I do remember. Well, I met him, well, a couple times. Are you talking about when we all went up to pull bridge?

[27:26] DALIT GUSCIO: Anything?

[27:28] HEATHER LABBE: Let's see. So when Delete and Greg were married, I was their officiant, and her parents couldn't be there for the ceremony, and they chose to have a reception later kind of party. And we went up to glacier, I guess, west glacier at Pole Bridge Mercantile, and had a big party. And really, all I remember is that your mom seemed to like me so much better than she likes you.

[27:57] DALIT GUSCIO: Absolutely.

[28:03] HEATHER LABBE: And no, your parents were wonderful. They were just so friendly and so much like you. Actually, you'll probably kill me for saying that, but I could just see immediately, like, where you came from and where your values come from and your sense of humor and watching your whole family actually interact was special because my family dynamic is just different. And it was neat to see because I'd only known you for so long. It was neat to see you interacting with people that you were so very comfortable with and who, you know, you were a part of the chaos. The chaos. Organized. It was organized chaos.

[28:53] DALIT GUSCIO: Yep. We strive on that.

[28:55] HEATHER LABBE: Yeah.

[28:57] DALIT GUSCIO: My mom used to call every time, asking about, how is Heather How's Heather It took me a while to understand that she means you.

[29:09] HEATHER LABBE: She sends me presents, and, of course, she pays me to be her friend, so that's why checks have come in really handy over the years.

[29:22] DALIT GUSCIO: Let me talk about your mom and me.

[29:25] HEATHER LABBE: My mom loves you. My dad loves you. Actually, my dad, I remember, he's probably. I can't think of a single friend that he asks about other than you. And I know why that you stick in his mind, because you were in the israeli intelligence, and I think he finds that very glamorous. And plus, your name sounds like a computer keyboard button.

[29:57] DALIT GUSCIO: Delight. Delight.

[30:00] HEATHER LABBE: So it's easy for him to remember.

[30:07] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah, I kind of am bored of that joke about my name because everyone say that. Oh, is it just like control alt? No, no, no, not quite. But, yeah. But if that's why Don remembers my name, I'll take it. Both our parents have aged right these 20 something years, definitely when we first met, and they were kind of center central to our. Our support system that has really shifted in the past 20 years. While you're really 100% support for your parents who need support every day. And I have the privilege of having siblings that are helping and my parents being a little bit more independent still back home. But you remind me a ton with the frustrations and the struggles that you're dealing with right now with what my sister back home is dealing with my parents. And so there's also that there's so many connections in our life and the time as we've grown together that have, you know, it's almost like these neurons, connections, new pathways that are being produced. And so I've never thought of you and my sister in the same sentence until the past five years. And more often than not, I'm like, oh, man, she is experiencing exactly what my sister is experiencing right now. So friendships can take new facets, I guess, as we grow old.

[32:08] HEATHER LABBE: That's true. I'm still not as old as you.

[32:12] DALIT GUSCIO: Well, we've got a few months in the year that we're both the same age, I want to remind you, but.

[32:17] HEATHER LABBE: It is interesting watching how, you know, you, especially since I don't have kids, watching you being the mom and the caretaker and watching your children grow, and now they're almost ready to go to college not too far away. Sorry, I hate to break it to you, but now we're moving into this period of our lives where I'm getting menopause ads on my Facebook scroll, and.

[32:42] DALIT GUSCIO: I should just say, I do not. I do not get these ads, which.

[32:47] HEATHER LABBE: I think is very unfair of the algorithm, by the way.

[32:50] DALIT GUSCIO: Yeah, just saying.

[32:51] HEATHER LABBE: But we've moved into this taking care of our parents stage of our lives. Gray hair and creaky joints and.

[33:01] DALIT GUSCIO: Who's gray hair?

[33:02] HEATHER LABBE: A badass. You know, that you really are.

[33:06] DALIT GUSCIO: I don't know about that.

[33:07] HEATHER LABBE: I admire your ability to just get out there and you're just be resilient.

[33:14] DALIT GUSCIO: Are you kidding me? Like, you are just amazing with everything that you've been doing and all the challenges that you've taken on and just move on with life and doing decisions and taking them on and pursuing it and, you know me, badass. You are, like, all the stuff that you have to do every day that, you know, it's almost like, for me with an infant where it's like, oh, my gosh, if I don't nurse this kid and, you know, that kid is like, it's my sole responsibility. And you with your parents, it's like, it's amazing to me that you managed to do that and everything else, and.

[33:58] HEATHER LABBE: Well, I'm lucky that I have a really wonderful partner.

[34:01] DALIT GUSCIO: I know, but it's still. Thanks, Paul. But still. It's awesome. It's amazing. So what's in our future? Are you going to come to Israel?

[34:11] HEATHER LABBE: I would love to come to Israel.

[34:13] DALIT GUSCIO: Oh, can we. Can we put it. Can we do a swear? Pinky swear.

[34:18] HEATHER LABBE: Pinky swear.

[34:19] DALIT GUSCIO: Pinky swear.

[34:19] HEATHER LABBE: Pinky swear. Here you go.

[34:21] DALIT GUSCIO: Awesome. I can't wait. And are we gonna go find ourselves a small apartment dementia place for the.

[34:29] HEATHER LABBE: Two of us when we get old and. Yeah, your kids have gone off and conquered the world.

[34:35] DALIT GUSCIO: And then they can take care of both of us. Come and visit. Well, they don't really.

[34:38] HEATHER LABBE: That's kind of my plan. That's my plan. A actually.

[34:41] DALIT GUSCIO: Perfect. You should remind them regularly, really nice.

[34:43] HEATHER LABBE: To them, and give them good gifts on their birthdays.

[34:47] DALIT GUSCIO: Just remind them regularly, though. Send a text. Just reminding you. And Heather, expecting we're a package. Here we go. I'm trying to think. There's just so much more that I would want to share, but I don't know Heather's love of dogs. Oh, my gosh. And. Oh, my gosh. Can you quickly. Heather, can you. Heather has a very small house relative to american, or I should say montanan expectations. Can you quickly tell us how many animals and what were they when you had, like, the maximum amount of living things in your house? Please.

[35:47] HEATHER LABBE: This is story court, not hoarders.

[35:51] DALIT GUSCIO: You have to. It needs to be there. Please.

[35:58] HEATHER LABBE: I went through a rescue phase.

[36:02] DALIT GUSCIO: Just share that with us.

[36:04] HEATHER LABBE: I don't know. There was, like, a time where.

[36:07] DALIT GUSCIO: Go ahead.

[36:08] HEATHER LABBE: I was fostering animals and helping drive in places, so I think I did a dog transport. There was, like, 25 dogs that spent the night at our house on their way to somewhere else.

[36:21] DALIT GUSCIO: What about the.

[36:22] HEATHER LABBE: And I'm still married. Paul didn't divorce me. Thought was a possibility.

[36:28] DALIT GUSCIO: He's wonderful. What about the closing the porch for some animals?

[36:33] HEATHER LABBE: Oh, those were the porch cats. Yep. We had dropped feral cats, and then we're trying to tame them, which didn't work and ended up adopting them out as barn cats. Now you're making me sound like a crazy person.

[36:47] DALIT GUSCIO: I just wanted it to be recorded. Hamsters.

[36:54] HEATHER LABBE: These were gerbils. Sorry, that does not make it any better. We were using the gerbils as part of a research experiment, and I didn't want to euthanize them at the end, and so I had to find them homes, which I did, by the way, eventually.

[37:14] DALIT GUSCIO: Eventually. That's, like, the essence of Heather right there is like, she can make jokes at you and whatnot, but her heart is just huge. So big. Gerbils. Humans. Humans that she likes. But really, that's kind of who you are.

[37:40] HEATHER LABBE: How did this story end up on gerbils? I had no idea this was. This is. What do you feel most grateful for in your life? Let's end with that.

[37:58] DALIT GUSCIO: Oh, damn. Just being so lucky and privileged and having healthy, solid brain, amazing kids, and just a handful of friends that I can call family. What about you?

[38:27] HEATHER LABBE: Same. Having a really close knit family, wonderfully supportive spouse, and just some very few really close friends that I know always have my back.

[38:43] DALIT GUSCIO: I've got your back. Can we hug? Virtual I'm not crying.

[39:03] HEATHER LABBE: You're crying.

[39:04] DALIT GUSCIO: You're crying.

[39:04] HEATHER LABBE: It's raining on my face.

[39:06] DALIT GUSCIO: I love you.

[39:07] HEATHER LABBE: Love you, too.