Heidi Tobin and Edward "Chip" Ordman

[00:02] HEIDI TOBIN: Hi. My name is Heidi Tobin. I'm 68 years old, and today's date is January 27, 2024. And the location is Memphis, Tennessee. I'm here with my partner, Edward Chipp Ordman. He goes by Chip, and he is my partner. We're partners in crime together.

[00:28] EDWARD ORDMAN: Okay. I'm Edward Ordman, but usually go by my nickname, Chip. I'm 79 years old. Today is January 27, 2024. We're in Memphis, Tennessee, and I'm with Heidi Tobin. We've been together since, well, we started spending a lot of time together in 2016 after our previous, my wife and her husband died. The two couples have been friends for many years, but so we. But we've been basically together all the time since she retired in 2018. And you had a very unusual career, Heidi. So let's talk by telling about that.

[01:10] HEIDI TOBIN: Yes, this is Heidi again. I was a teacher for department of Defense dependent schools, and I was stationed in Germany for 37 years. Teaching for the us military is the best kept secret around. When you work for the military. You could be stationed in Spain, in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia, Italy, many, many, many places. They could put you Japan, all over Korea, all over the world. And I was fortunate enough to get Germany. And I remember when I was interviewed for my job on March 17, 1980. 1980. And I got a call and they said, they'd like to, I had applied, and they said, would you like to be. I would like to interview you for this job. And I said, oh, okay. And my 30 minutes interview with some lady in Washington who knew. She says, you have three days. You're hired. You have three days to decide whether you want the job. And I went, oh. I said, that's it? She says, oh, yeah, you've already had your background checked. Little did I know people were coming to my parents house and my parents neighbors and my university asking all about me. So apparently I did have a background check. And I said, okay, I'll get back to you. And I had their phone number. And I called my parents and said, what do you think? I said, they have a job for me in Wielflechen, Germany. And my mother said, where? I said, who knows? But it's in Germany. So long story short, I took the job, and I went up to the town library and looked in the maps up there to try to find Wielflecken. And I'm going to tell you, Wielflecken wasn't on the map. And I had not a clue. So I called the Pentagon, and I said, you know, can you give me any idea where I'd be stationed. He said, you're on. You'd be on the east german border. And I went, uh huh. Okay. And he said, and you're going to teach a three four combination, a third grade and fourth grade. And I said, oh, I'm thinking, I don't know. But. So I went to Wielflechen on August 1, 1981, and I lived 1 km from the east german border. And the wall was still up. That surrounded East Germany. And I taught in Wielflecken for four years. And then I moved on to another community called Mannheim. And then I went for five years, and then I was in Aschaffenburg for two because I got a promotion to assistant principal. And then I moved to Darmstadt to sick for 16 and then Sembach near Kaiserslauten for ten. The best thing I ever did in my life because I had the opportunity to travel, to see the world, and most importantly, to work with wonderful soldiers that keep us safe, that keep us safe in this world, because even at this time, the world is a very difficult place, and having peacekeepers out there helping us in the world is wonderful.

[04:42] EDWARD ORDMAN: So you. Just two questions from that early period or one that I want to remember, and that was the hat, that you had to be prepared to evacuate on no notice.

[04:54] HEIDI TOBIN: Yes, we had what were called neo evacuations. And you had to have your suitcase packed. You had to have a half. You had to have a half a gallon, half a tank of gas in your car. And you had to have your household goods shipping list in your suitcase in case you had to be evacuated if the east. If the Russians were coming over. The Fulda gap into East Germany. Attacking. Attacking into Fulda. The Fulda gap. And one night we hear a knock at the door. And we went to the door, it's like 230 in the morning. And it says, ma'am, you and your husband are to report to the gymnasium of Veo Fleck. And we're having a neo alert. Make sure you bring your passport, your government id and your suitcase, and bring your little car. Your car. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I hope I have a half gallon of gas. But I mean half tank of gas. But I did. And we drove up to the gym and you went from station to station to station as they checked your suitcase. Your household good look. Your household good list. Your passport, your government passport. Because I had two. I had a NATO passport and travel passport. And you were told you had to sit in the gymnasium and listen to the general say, if we had a real neo evacuation you'd have 32nd life expectancy. So don't think too much about what you'll be doing after this. We all sat there with our mouth dropped open. I was 25 years old thinking, what did I get myself into?

[06:48] EDWARD ORDMAN: Now? You were never actually in a real evacuation, although you went through some crises. But among your friends who from that period, who you are still friendly with and visit in the United States are people who were evacuated from Turkey. Can you tell about that?

[07:04] HEIDI TOBIN: Yeah. One of the locations teachers and military can be stationed at Isdev is Ankara, Turkey. And so my girlfriend, who I love dearly, she was stationed in Ankara. And apparently the government fell and there was a lot of fighting in Ankara and it was deemed unsafe for Americans. And they had to, for about three months, they couldn't even leave the base. They had to stay right in the base. They couldn't go out of that compound in the walls. And then one Friday, the principal called the teachers in and the general was there and he said, pack your bags, you have 3 hours. Get to the military airport, which was right on base and have your household goods and your things that you want to take with you and your house keys and you are going to be sent to Germany. In the area I was teaching in, you were either going to go, you were. Everybody came to Ramstein because that was where the airport was, the whole. But all dependents, all teachers, all wives, families, except the military member, they were all shipped to Germany. And in came all these kids. And it was incredible. And they told us on Friday afternoon, they said, don't be surprised when you come to work on Monday morning that you could have an extra ten kids in your class. You know, the hands started going up and the teachers are saying, what about books? What about chairs? What about. And the principal said, I know you can take care of it. You guys can do it. Don't worry about it. And Monday morning came and the influx of teachers and kids came in, but there weren't classrooms to put a teacher in because we were full. All the classrooms had a teacher, but they gave a teacher, you know, a co teacher to you or co teacher to the next teacher. And ten kids came into some classes, eight came into others. It was quite the experience. I learned how to teach on the floor to 8th graders. I did quite a good job, if I don't say so myself. It was quite the experience and I learned a lot. Ramstein High School and Kaiser slaughter High School got most of the load and that was pretty tough for them.

[09:44] EDWARD ORDMAN: But you got one of the advantages of very often, being near the Frankfurt airport was that you could travel extensively. And there is the tale of your visit to Jordan that is worth telling people.

[09:56] HEIDI TOBIN: Oh, well, my husband couldn't go to Jordan because my husband did top secret work and he was, he couldn't go to certain places. So I said, oh. He said, and I'm working over your Christmas break anyway. And I said, okay. I said, I'm traveling. He says, heidi, be careful, you know, serious world out there. I said, oh, yeah, yeah. So I get on a plane, I go on this tour, and the tour is with Germans, it's not with Americans, because hard to find a last minute tour with Americans. So I found a last minute tour. And one of the little outings was to go to the jordanian israeli border. And gorgeous view. I mean, a view to die for. But also the soldiers were gorgeous. The gentlemen were all in their, you know, it almost seemed like their dress uniforms and their hats and their machine guns around their necks. And I said, oh. I said, I saw this really good looking guy. And I thought, oh, this is my chance. I looked good for 25, 26 years old. I looked okay. And I walked up to him and said, he says, can I help you? And I said, yes, you can. I said, I would like to have picture taken of me holding your machine gun. He said, certainly. As he puts the machine gun around my neck, I'm holding the machine gun. He's kind of getting behind me, you know, to put his arm around my shoulder. And I'm thinking, oh. I said, and now I'd like a kiss. He says, okay, as he lip locks me. And they, and I get lots of pictures. And, you know, that was the time when they didn't have a camera that showed you the picture immediately. It was on a film, in a film canister. And anyhow, I didn't know what it was going to look like until about three weeks later. However, I get back to Germany and my husband said, how to go? And I said, oh, it was really fun. And I told him about my little escapades to Jordan and Israel. And he says, oh, heidi, what are you thinking? I said, I think I'm having fun. And then the next morning, I went into work and the principal called me down to his office. Come on in after school, Heidi. And I said, okay. And as I walk in, instead of calling me Heidi, he called me misses Tobin. And I thought, oh, that not a good sign. And I walked in, he says, misses Tobin, the general would like to see you in Frankfurt. And I said, oh, great, that will be fun. He says, you have the day tomorrow off because it's a two hour drive. It's not like. And it's all over back roads, up, down, around and through the woods. You thought you were going to grandmother's house and you could see how all these little tiny dwarfs towns where people were, you know, kind of tucked away and the cities were not close to one each other now, nor were the towns. And so we got to Frankfurt. My husband and I went and we're sitting outside the general's office and he says, I don't believe I can go in with you. And I said, oh, no problem. I could do this on my own. I said, I've traveled the world on my own. I went to Africa by myself and went to the maasai mara. I mean, you know. And he said, okay. So I went in. He said, misses Tobin. I walk in, the general says, misses Tobin, take a seat. And I said, oh, okay. And I'm kind of smiling, laughing. He said, how are you today? I said, I'm good. And he says, I want to ask you something. And he pulls this eight, you know, this big military envelope with the shotgun holes in it, and it says, misses Tobin on it, Jordan. And I thought, oh, dear. As he pulls out four of these eight by ten pictures of me. First he goes. And he takes them and has four pictures and goes, boom, boom, boom, boom, laying the pictures on the table. And I said, he says, he points to the first picture and he says, what the second were third, won't you? And four thinking, what were you thinking? And I said, oh, I was having fun. It was so much fun. And he said, not funny, misses Tobin. And I thought, okay. He said, do you realize what he says? You were breaching so many protocols up there. And I said, I wasn't wearing my husband's rank, I was on a tour. And he said, you know, I could put your butt in an airplane and ship you back to the United States. You don't have to be here. You are here on the auspices of the government and they want you here. They keep you here. If they don't, you're gone. And I thanked him very much. He says, you won't ever do this again, will you? And I said, absolutely not until about two weeks later when I borrowed my girlfriend, german girlfriend, sister, Id. And we went into East Germany because I wanted to go shopping. Oh, that was. Yeah, we had to go through the east german border when you Americans couldn't go there. Long story short, at least I didn't get caught. That time.

[15:16] EDWARD ORDMAN: Okay. Now, my wife Eunice, and you and your husband Richard, were friends for many, many years, but you can't talk too much about your husband's job. But he. How long was he in Vietnam?

[15:31] HEIDI TOBIN: He was in Vietnam a year and something two different times. You know, he went to Vietnam and he was, towards the end of the war, 69, 70, you know, towards the end. And he was working on a base up in way. And he had to do the burn pits. Had to stir up the burn pits because they were burning all the files and all the records at that point. But also he was helping spray the agent orange on the fields. So anyhow, he had a wonderful career in the military. He was there 22 years, 22 and a half years. However, the Agent Orange got to him. He developed cancer, and he passed away from cancer from Agent Orange in 2015. But he traveled and lived all over the world. He was stationed in Italy, he stationed in Korea. He was stationed. I'm trying to think of all the.

[16:34] EDWARD ORDMAN: Can we mention NORAD?

[16:37] HEIDI TOBIN: Sure.

[16:38] EDWARD ORDMAN: He worked in one of the air bases that the United States and some of our allies have 600ft underground to be nuclear bomb proof. That was in North Bay, Ontario, up north of Lake Huron. Heidi and I have visited the top there and seen movies of the bottom. Heidi and also in our travels, have also crawled around in the. When we went to visit the places Richard had worked in Vietnam, we were in the Viet Cong tunnels down in the Mekong delta. I must admit, we have the. In the present. In this week's news, with Israel fighting in Jordan, we have the impression that Israel may be underestimating the extent of the Hamas tunnels.

[17:24] HEIDI TOBIN: Yeah. When we were in Vietnam, it was incredible to see the. The complex. Like, if you look at them on a wall, like a reduced version of it, it looks like an ant farm. And they had a. They had six stories down in Vietnam. They had a kitchen, they had a nurse, you know, a school room. They had the bathroom. They had family rooms.

[17:49] EDWARD ORDMAN: There was even a maternity ward.

[17:50] HEIDI TOBIN: Maternity ward, yes. And whole towns lived underground. And it was amazing. And, you know, one of my first shock when we got to Vietnam was they said, yes. I said, well, my husband was here during the Vietnam War. And he says, you mean the vietnamese man said, you mean the american war? And I thought, oh, yes, it was the american war. You know, you have to think of where you're at. But very interesting.

[18:22] EDWARD ORDMAN: Now, one of the interesting things that you, during the years you were in Germany, of course, you were treated by the american military doctors.

[18:31] HEIDI TOBIN: Yes.

[18:32] EDWARD ORDMAN: And toward the end they prescribed the third member of our party here this afternoon. I haven't yet introduced our service dog, Molly, who is lying at our feet. You want to say a few words about Molly?

[18:44] HEIDI TOBIN: Yes. So I got fairly sick towards the end of my husband's. He was in the german hospital because the us military hospital didn't do a hospice room for cancer patients. They didn't do hospice. They didn't do hospice in Germany. So it was.

[19:03] EDWARD ORDMAN: And he wanted experimental treatments.

[19:05] HEIDI TOBIN: Yes. And he did. He got experimental treatment for cancer. And as I was driving home from visiting him in the hospital, because he was there the last nine months of his life, I was driving home, and it was an hour and ten minutes each way to visit him in the hospital. And some nights I'd sleep in the hospital, the german hospital, they'd give me a. They had a bed in the room, so I could sleep there. And I'd get up and shower in the group, shower down the hall. And anyway, I was driving home, and it was about 11:00 and I felt a pain in my chest. And I thought, oh, this is not good. So I took myself to Lonsdul regional medical center, and I walked into the emergency room, and the doctor said, misses Choban. I thought, oh, gosh. It was one of my student's parents who ran the emergency room. And I said, yes. He says, are you okay? And I said, no. I said, I am so stressed. My blood pressure was 220 over like 99 or something, 110. I don't know. And they whapped me into a bed and put shoved needles in my arm and had. They thought I had a little heart attack. Well, they know I had a little heart attack. And the stress level just had gotten to me. And also they did all sorts of tests, and I had diabetes, the beginning of diabetes. And the doctor said, you gotta do something because you're not. Your blood sugar's going up and going down, and your heart rate's going up and going down. He gave me a service dog. He said, you're gonna have to. And I need you to. He said, I need you to take care of the service dog because the soldier had gotten hurt in Afghanistan and had been sent to Walter Reed. And I said, yes. And it was a little westy like mine, and I was able to take care of that westy as my service dog. Bring her to school, take her everywhere. In Europe. They have no problem with dogs going into restaurants or into the doctor's office. I mean, it's a different culture. Culture than America. And so I had her as a service dog. And then when the soldier came back, I went home, back to the States, and we got a service dog, I think, 18 months later, because it took a while to order one to get.

[21:30] EDWARD ORDMAN: The right one trained. Yeah. Yeah.

[21:32] HEIDI TOBIN: Okay. So, chip, do you want to share stuff about information about your life?

[21:37] EDWARD ORDMAN: Okay. Yeah. I have to introduce my former wife Eunice also. And I need to say that Eunice's house in New London, New Hampshire, was a short block from Heidi's house. So there's actually a picture of my former wife, Eunice, holding Heidi in her arms. As a baby, Heidi was friendly with Eunice's older kids and babysat Eunice's younger kids.

[22:08] HEIDI TOBIN: Well, you have to say, though, that Eunice was 20 plus years older than you.

[22:12] EDWARD ORDMAN: Yes. Okay. I'll get there. Okay. I was omitting some earlier career as a professor of mathematics. In the mid seventies, I decided to change to computer science because that was beginning to boom. I was hired by the dean at New England College, a small college in Heneker, New Hampshire, where the dean said, I know I have to do something with computers, but I don't see any way this college can afford them. I said, not in these words. There are people in garages building things that will be called microcomputers. If you will let me buy things from people building them in garages, I can teach computer science. I looked around the faculty to see who else was interested, and people told me, well, there's this older woman with a bunch of kids who comes in a few days a week to teach electronics. Talk to her. Eunice and I hit it off. We divided computer science between us and started buying things from people building them in garages. In the days back before the radio shack TRS 80, the first computer you could buy in a store, a regular store. I'm oversimplifying slightly. That was in 1977. In the early eighties, IBM came out with its PC. Suddenly, the big universities needed microcomputer experts, because people in the big universities had all been using large computers.

[23:47] HEIDI TOBIN: How big? When you're checking large computers, they fit into a room, right?

[23:50] EDWARD ORDMAN: Oh, yeah. They take a big room.

[23:52] HEIDI TOBIN: They take up a whole room.

[23:53] EDWARD ORDMAN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And keeping them cool was a major problem. Actually, I had worked some summers at the, what was then the National Bureau of Standards in Washington, later the National Institute of Standards and Technology. And one of the things the Bureau of Standards did was work with experimental computers. I remember programming one computer that had, if I remember correctly, about 6720 something, vacuum tubes. And you had to stop every hour to see which tubes had burned out and whether they would affect your results. But in any case, early eighties, IBM came out with its PC, and omitting some minor visits and complications here, but basically, the University of Memphis in Tennessee hired both Eunice and me away from New England College to teach teach computer science in Memphis. And we'd been working together for six years, and we'd been colleagues. But between jobs, we got married, thereby arriving married at the new job and avoiding certain kinds of nepotism problems. And Eunice was slightly over 20 years older than I was and had five children of her own, plus a foster, plus a previous step. I'd had one child from an earlier marriage, so we had a flock of kids to keep in touch with. Eunice retired a few years later when she hit 65, and we did a great deal of travel also. We both taught in Denmark. We both taught in the Faroe Islands. I worked a couple of visits in Paris on national science. Well, actually, I was never big, important and famous, but I worked with a famous hungarian researcher, Paul Erds, and that made me well enough known that if I wanted to lecture in Budapest or Shanghai, I could get invited. And sometimes even somebody paid. Sometimes even somebody paid for it. Some of our own travel we paid for. But. But when Eunice was 78, I believe, and I was 58, she said, you know, we haven't been tromping in the himalayas yet. So I gave the university a year's notice, retired young, and we set off traveling a little more in earnest. We did visit monasteries in the himalayas. We also taught English in a children's summer camp in rural eastern Poland. We spent three weeks with an organization called global volunteers in the Ukraine, a week each at three different teachers colleges, letting the students who were studying to be english teachers practice their English with us, which means I have seen all the places in Kherson that you now see on the news as having been destroyed. I've been there.

[27:00] HEIDI TOBIN: Tell me about the email you received from one of the children that you taught English to.

[27:07] EDWARD ORDMAN: One of the children we taught English to when she was eleven years old in the children's summer camp in Remontufke, Poland, a little west of Shettleshire, is now a physician working there, and I believe she is treating some of the refugees from Ukraine.

[27:30] HEIDI TOBIN: Tell me about your interfaith work. That's one of the wonderful things that I find so interesting about you, and my life with you is doing interfaith here in Memphis. Can you tell me, how did that begin?

[27:44] EDWARD ORDMAN: Okay. I went to my grandfather was an orthodox rabbi. My father rebelled into agnosticism. I went to an episcopal college in Ohio, kenyan college, where a lot of my friends were pre divinity students. And I became very friendly with the in trying, since they wanted to ask me questions about Judaism I didn't know. I wound up becoming friendly with the professor of Old Testament at the Bexley Hall Divinity school attached to Kenyon College professor Richard Henshaw. Under his tutelage, I became a rather traditional and observing jew, but I also learned how to explain jewish ideas in episcopal language and episcopal ideas in jewish language. So I started doing things like model seders for fraternities and sororities, and from then on was always active in a synagogue, a church, the episcopal student center, the jewish student center at the various places I taught. And Eunice was a Christian but intensely interested in Old Testament. She knew more Old Testament than I did, and I knew more New Testament than she did, which was a lot of fun. So we got very. So one of the agreements when we married was that we be active in both a synagogue and a church. Following the catastrophic attacks of 2001, Yunus said. You know, it's time we became active in our neighborhood mosque. So we became very active members of a church, a synagogue and a mosque and started getting delegations from one to visit the other, started to organize joint panel discussions, that sort of thing, and then started going also to other churches and synagogues and mosques to help build connections. And we became very much in demand, covered by the commercial appeal newspaper in Memphis. David Waters, who was editor of the commercial Appeal, would occasionally call us up to find out what we thought he was, was doing in town that he might not have noticed.

[29:58] HEIDI TOBIN: And so this is 20 years on from that. Are you still active and participating in.

[30:07] EDWARD ORDMAN: I'm still doing as much as I can. Now, there has been some reduction in that for a couple of reasons. First, Heidi doesn't have the same connection to Memphis that Eunice developed. So we are, and we're both retired, so we're spending close to half the year in New Hampshire, close to half the year in Memphis, and as much as a couple of months a year traveling one way or another. Covid, of course, the COVID epidemic starting three years ago, I guess three years ago now, 2004 years ago, four years ago. Well, first Heidi and I went and stayed up in New Hampshire for a couple of years because of the extent of the, the epidemic in Memphis, but also during that time and even for a while after returned was not the time to organize visits from one house of worship to another. So many things were online. And of course, now there's a further complication. We've got a war in Gaza. We've got demonstrations, street demonstrations about that kind of thing. And we have a big political element in the United States. Okay, I'll name Donald Trump, who is promoting xenophobia, hatred of immigrants, hatred of Muslims, and all the synagogues and mosques in the city. And many of the churches have had to lay on extra security. There's a lot of fear right now, if you're going to show up at a strange synagogue or a strange mosque and you don't know people there, it's probably a good idea to call in advance and make sure they're expecting you.

[31:58] HEIDI TOBIN: But that has not stopped you from pulling people together so that they could experience one another. Because in upcoming in February. Where are you and I going?

[32:10] EDWARD ORDMAN: Oh, well, you're talking about our trip. Yes. We're going to spend a week in Cuba, in Havana, with friendship organization called Friendship Force.

[32:23] HEIDI TOBIN: Right. And one of the things that we feel very strongly about is to bring people together, and that's what we're doing when we go to Cuba with this friendship force is to make connections there. And that's very, very important to both of us.

[32:42] EDWARD ORDMAN: Now, between my age and some minor infirmities that have come along, I have some eye trouble, for example, and Heidi's diabetes. We probably are not going to do things like running off to himalayan monasteries or even children's summer camps in Poland. But we did take our trip to Vietnam, where we did a considerable amount of adventuring on our Cambodia and Cambodia. Yeah. But since then, we have taken a cruise around Cape Horn with a stop in the Falkland Islands. I must admit I was particularly fascinated to see the Falkland Islands since Eunice and I at one time taught for six weeks in the Faroe Islands in the north Atlantic. And Heidi and I have also been to, spent some time in Sydney, Australia, and taken a cruise around the south island of New Zealand to Auckland.

[33:40] HEIDI TOBIN: And then upcoming in May, we're going to head to Italy. Italy, Turkey and Greece for a 19 day tour. And that will be certainly, that's a.

[33:51] EDWARD ORDMAN: Cruise starting in Istanbul.

[33:52] HEIDI TOBIN: Yeah. Istanbul. Yes.

[33:53] EDWARD ORDMAN: I haven't visited Istanbul since 1971.

[33:56] HEIDI TOBIN: And I.

[33:57] EDWARD ORDMAN: You've been there a number of times and really love it.

[33:59] HEIDI TOBIN: Turkish people. I have a real affinity with turkish people. I belong to and go to a turkish women's organization here in Memphis because I understand what it's like to be a foreigner in another land. I lived in Germany those 37 years, and no matter that I lived there that long. I was always considered the Auslander, the American, and the turkish women that I go and do turkish coffee with and turkish learning how to cook turkish meals. They're outslanders here in America, and no matter what they do and how they relate to others, they're still outsiders. And I understand that very, very strongly. And so I have an affinity towards making them feel like that they do belong, that they are part of our culture now.

[34:56] EDWARD ORDMAN: Also, our next door neighbors, in fact, are from Syria. And one of our minor adventures, one of their sons, was not able to get a visa to the United States at the time of the rest of the family. And so he was for some years a refugee in Germany. We visited him in Berlin. He gave us a tour of Berlin. We carried gifts from his mother in Memphis to him in Berlin. He has now, incidentally, got a green card in the United States and is working here.

[35:27] HEIDI TOBIN: Right. The wonderful thing with that is we got to see Berlin through another culture's eyes, you know, and how he escaped from Syria. I mean, and the whole conversations were so deep and so meaningful.

[35:46] EDWARD ORDMAN: So while our backgrounds were different for many years, we've known each other for a very long time, and we both share this fascination for other cultures, other belief patterns, other kinds of people at other places.

[36:03] HEIDI TOBIN: And learning.

[36:04] EDWARD ORDMAN: And learning.

[36:04] HEIDI TOBIN: Learning is really important. And being kind and nice to other people, that is kind of how I'd like to remember. I want people to think of me, that I am. I reach out, and if I can help you, I help. You have helped many people in this world and want to continue giving, you know, wanting nothing in return but saying, you know, you're welcome here, and we're happy to know you as a person.

[36:33] EDWARD ORDMAN: The jewish expression is Tikkun Olam. The world is broken. We're working to fix it. And I think that's. We do what we can, where we can.

[36:45] HEIDI TOBIN: Thank you.

[36:46] EDWARD ORDMAN: Thank you. It.