Hilary Trudell and Andy Vaught

00:00 Hi, my name is Hilary trudell. I'm 38 years old. It is Friday, March 26th, 2021. I am in Little Rock Arkansas and I am speaking with Andy Botts. Who is my lover. Love you neighborhood of Little Rock Arkansas. And my conversation partner is Hilary trudell should be doing this with you. I thought it was a really cool opportunity for us to talk about our experiences with divorce cuz we're both.

00:47 Children of Divorce. So, you know what your experience with your parents. And I think I had with mine and thought I would be cool if you told your Thanksgiving story.

01:07 You know, I think it's just like I do my, you know, my, my mom and dad got divorced when I was five and they do not spend time together. And so when you told me that story was kind of just pretty shocking because it's the opposite of how I really lucky. My parents divorced, when I was eight and being an only child and being that young, I think was really helpful because I was at least at that point where I believe what my parents told me and said, when they were like, it's not your fault. I was like, okay. And then I'm going to be better this time. I believe it wasn't my fault or at least they gave me a book. That told me it was

02:07 Established. That that's a pretty important age in your development. I think I I internalized a lot but also a girl, you know, your first relationship is with your your dad and he thinks him and he left but it's not like I I never saw him again like we had a relationship, but I think I definitely

02:33 Do felt like that, was there something that I did, you know, who's that is not like really important for development and maybe somebody's listening to us with like 20 when their parents got divorced, with, are you with me? But I just feel like it's not as as texting as when you're a little go to figure out how the world is structured or how you think the world is structured. And then like if you're 20 and it happens, literally your structure of the world is right, but I guess it's probably easier as you can be like, yeah, you probably had some heartache already and you probably

03:26 Same place, but I think when you're a kid.

03:38 You know, your world is your family, you know, that is that is what you have. And so when you're older, at least you have, hopefully you have different support mechanisms. It's not just your parents. But when it's when you're young it is World shattering. I think that was my experience when my parents got divorced. Even you know, my my brothers and I talked about how it's it's awkward to be for them to be in the same room now. Yeah. Sorry, Mom and Dad if you're listening to us, but yeah, it's not comfortable and I'm, I'm 38. So 34 years later. They were in the same.

04:28 Well, you might want to think of weddings.

04:32 I think probably once they're gringe them, both my brothers, right? Have kids. And so I think it was probably instances where they were in the same place.

04:44 Like around, I guess. Ethan, my little brother got married, so that would have been.

05:02 I don't know. And you're the lovely tradition.

05:16 In which states do spend time together without their able to celebrate a holiday. So Thanksgiving holiday. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think that was also the first really tough moment for me. Or maybe the first moment. I really became aware of how tough could it be when your parents were divorced? And if he said, I am an only child and I don't share

06:16 I was the only child and I was pretty, I think I still am, but I think then I was incredibly insular kid and really because of that separation. I think had taken the cloning on to my mother because she was the one I lived with for the majority of the time. I would see my dad every other weekend. And then on holidays, I was supposed to go hang out with him and he moved to a section of town which I would call a creepy section of a wobbly banister on the stairwell. This woman next door that you would always say that she would take the cigarette butts. I don't know if I think I might have been true. I mean what year did work at a hospital?

07:16 Racing in the backyard and I think maybe my onset lava possums is somehow related to this time. They are literally no in The Princess. Bride rodents of unusual. That's what a possum is. What are actually a different species that looks like on Thanksgiving day. I don't want to go. I really don't want to go. You can't vocalize it and can't actually quite fathom. What's happening to you?

08:16 I'm telling the story is like what we did. He never cook for me before like was I not aware of what was going to happen. You know, I really couldn't tell you, you should have no real life protein powder. You're happy. And you guys, are you okay?

09:03 I just like want to pause in this moment because as a child of divorce who used to go back and forth like we did every other weekend and every Tuesday and every other ones, they're kind of awkward schedule, but we used to do that in the phrase. Do you want to go to your mom or do you want to go to your dad's just like this? Like this girl feeling like

09:29 Sadness. Yeah, it definitely is a big bring up other kinds of weird Associated, divorce, lesions, you know, emotional lesions if you will, so he asked me if I wanted to. But yes, I said, okay, let's go very quickly pack me, another car and took me to my mom's house and my mom lives less than a mile away. We want to make sure I want to come back here. And I said, yes.

10:24 And then she looks at me and she goes, why did you do that? Like, kind of mad? And so we see by this point, my father has given away. So we get back in the car and you have to go to his house. We're going to buy, so we drive back to his apartment near, he's not there. And so then we kind of convinced this like,

10:44 Cross City, Crosstown search for my dad on Thanksgiving and we finally find him off like a nature trail. That's off the interstate. I don't know. I've always had a hunch and right work out of the car. We see my dad walking out of the woods and then they decided that we would go and eat Thanksgiving together. And I've been really lucky that ever since then it's not very much and I'm really good but it's not. Here. You've been there. It's pretty low-key. Yeah, my mom's not a really a drinker. My dad is only started drinking later in his life. Really. I remember growing up, they never check.

11:44 Ray Liotta.

11:58 Robin there's never what grade is like. There's never a whole lot of pressure around her which I think everyone in the family is very grateful for you know, I was at to be a relaxing time but it makes me think of probably the best gift my parents ever gave me. Which was they just did a really good job of like looking at the baggage that they are the baggage of their own, but they were bringing into this and they pushed it aside for me in like a really beautiful day that I really really grateful for.

12:39 Definitely get along Misty though. We talkin about it. I'm like happy for you and also kind of sad for

12:49 I'm in divorce happens, right? A lot. It just, I think, no matter what it just sucks for the kids.

12:57 It was hard, miniature. Really. I mean if I could go back to my little brain back there in like just a concept of it must be star Bazaar your little Ray your tiny, but it was still, I got a bigger head.

13:30 I'm so glad that divorce is possible. Right? Like, I know, my parents would not be happy together. You know, they got married really young. They were 19. I couldn't even like, I could barely time. I shoot. I don't, I didn't know what I was doing in my life. I can't imagine like being and you know what? They've been happy. I'm so glad

14:21 But we're not an especially ass mean a woman that I'm not, you know, if we were to get married I'd be able to leave it to be independent and make choices and you do not be people but it just it's a hard thing and when you're

14:43 You're a kid and you're going back and forth between houses and, you know, the cultures different, the rules are different because you and your brothers. Like, would you talk about it at the time? I could you eat with y'all have like, intentional discussions about. I don't think we were

15:06 I don't I mean we were. Yeah, you know we were Ethan was three. I was five miles is 7. I don't feel like we had a grasp of how to talk about it.

15:19 I think, you know, we would say, you know, I miss this, I miss that but

15:25 We were there so many. So many emotions. I think it was.

15:34 Really identify everything that was going on emotionally.

15:39 It was hard because like a somebody who wants to have kids like you want to make sure that

15:45 But you know, everybody affects their kids, right? I think it's just with divorce. It's just such a, it's mine. It's a, it's an impossible thing to communicate specialist, but it's like, you know, you're alive, you're my life is better because my parents have a house where people bought all the time like that would have skewed. My perception of What Love Can or should be more than I already am. More than I'm already kind of.

16:36 You know, more than whatever the charm of the divorce was. And it also allows the kids to see their parents try and be more likely. They want to be sure you don't make mistakes or like have a life outside of taking care of me. What are you doing? Yeah, but that, you know, even thinking about when my parents got divorced, I think they were 30.

17:15 Feel like it would have been married at three kids and got divorced. Eight years ago, in my life right now. You might have kids and that's just young. People get married or see some. I remember struggling with a little bit. You know, it's like you expect there is an image popular conception and maybe it involves right of like what a family is supposed to look like right now.

18:13 That's what makes it harder. You know, when you're going through, especially as a kid being, like, William different now, I'm not normal now, you know, especially when you're already beginning to become aware of those differences differences that you have. But I mean now I mean how many of your friends have to? I mean if they're not divorced, like many of my friends house

18:41 Parents should have gotten like, if it's not right. I forgot using the norm. We're at. That is not the norm. You think it's more normal for there to be unhappy relationships and happy.

19:03 Because of this whole like, I don't know that divorce was

19:09 I think it was just kind of coming in to look being acceptable, get divorced, now, right?

19:25 And it certainly has become easier, right? It's not like him to the 8th when he got his divorce.

19:38 And it's easier.

19:50 Possible within the Christian Faith Church was pretty good on it, too. If you was in love with a nun.

20:10 And tell me what, but that's why there's the Protestant church. She started the Martin Luther today. I mean, there's a whole bunch of branches and that eventually went to like the weird cut branches that your parents coming.

20:34 Stock. So if we, if we have children.

20:40 What are you going to do it? Not nothing.

20:44 Well, give him good history lessons about him to the egg.

20:51 I would never want to get married if that's what I heard. It's like a sandwich somewhere else. Just stay away.

21:13 Guy, but, you know, that was stressful obviously.

21:26 No, I think every I mean that's what the weather says, right? And you obviously just like any apparent literature out there about Henry. I don't know man. I kind of want like we had a little kid and they were like, hey, Mom and Dad, I met this friend. So I want to marry him. I don't know that. I'd say no.

22:07 I guess it's like, would we still a student at that point? I was already a lock button that you're still there. Oh, yeah, I did. But I played at the time. They call me Big D.

22:41 I know what is no. Installing you that what? Cuz I was a Defender.

22:47 I think I was a big kid, right? That's what they call Mike big Defender. So we're not going to call her kids. Meatloaf.

23:24 What child grows in a fish?

23:30 High school, I'm not going to be like shave. Your face was like, well, what are you holding up? Your hands are showing me a picture of somebody with much is William Gladstone. And as a teenage boy.

23:52 He came up to me and said, hey Mom. What do you think about this? If he's asking me my, I think anything, like, breaking things down play can write, you don't want to actually label anything. You just want to have building blocks, you know, you would do really well with the dogs. A good place with the dogs and people don't like it when when they like talking about your kidney like, oh, yeah, I think just cuz I guess we're using a baby is a bigger deal. Of course.

24:52 Weather currently in the house when we have plans and dogs and they're Alive, come alive at basic.

25:09 101, keep your kid alive, the music. What famous? You know, Puff the Magic Dragon repetitive. I understand that and it also has an element of trauma and it took repair them.

25:45 Well, that is a stabbing. That is a traumatic. That's definitely worth with the song Rise.

26:09 On our way. Is left at the person that I'm going to another really traumatic story.

26:52 I mean, I don't know how we're not counting the Last Unicorn.

27:11 Cuz it is. It's like this loneliness, right? She's the only. She was literally The Last Unicorn.

27:20 And all the other unicorns were like the waves in the ocean. Remember the white in the way, I like never wanted to go in the ocean movie. I was so sad. I was trying to get to us like having some ammunition to help our kids, like, having been through. So we're not going to let them watch the magic. They're going to listen to that song.

27:52 No, I think it's about a dragon and a little boy grows up. And it's it's more convenient. Know. I may be a narc but like not a simple toe.

28:11 Okay, so we're not going to show them those movies that were not movies with dark, emotional subject matter. Is it helps you to feel ya? I don't know if you understand earlier than like.

28:33 I was just such a sensitive kid. I just don't want our kids to be like walking around with the way.

28:40 Sure, it's time. You know, I want them to have.

28:47 Lebanon, Joy. I think a movie and then we're going to make you read scary stories to tell in the dark.

29:07 Well, I mean elementary.

29:11 Okay, so remember scary stories to tell in the dark, remember those pictures? I don't know. What's more scary story. I could go get it but I don't know what it was like, two books of scary stories and the images were just like Cora. I know it is scary. Stories to tell in the dark and more.

29:47 I gave you the bus part of the story and you didn't give me credit you for giving me flourish and me ignoring your contributions to my success. Yet about how to do that. Justin Wade, success. I think we have to be careful though, and I don't know because obviously just thinking about all the Disney movie. I watched grown up and how

30:28 Yeah, there's no female. There's no mother in any of them. And if there's a, if there is a mother figure that's like if there is a woman in that's like a prominent Niger that's older than 16. She's evil or I mean the wicked witch has the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella would be the only one, right?

30:58 But think about like okay you one or Cilla, you know Snow White, there's all of the evil older women like you're either going to die or be.

31:14 On desirable. I don't know her clothes and stuff like that. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. Granite fairytale stories older women? Non-married will probably social social poison in, right? So there's women that were like in there all at that point. Like late find stuff that at

32:04 I like so kids. Don't grow up. Just thinking these things. Is there a green dog.

32:18 No. I mean, I ain't even in Toy Story and stuff like that, like, I love. So, you know, I love most.

32:37 Are you ready?

32:45 Move on.

32:56 Okay. Well, I guess that's one. Thing we have to do is get more children's videos and not just play Puff the Magic Dragon on repeat. And I saw it when I was 13 at jazz fest in New Orleans, and it was such a big deal cuz I know that Sister Hazel.

33:56 I just got a crying baby. Whatever like what is wrong with this child? Okay. Well, like I said there going to be a professional tennis player. We're going to have to shut that stuff off a few of their athletic prowess.

34:43 I love and love each other, and the kids.