Holley Hughes and Larry Shaw

Recorded August 5, 2021 Archived August 5, 2021 57:42 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: hub000373


One Small Step partners Larry Shaw (74) and Holley Hughes (32) discuss their religious upbringings, what led to both of them leaving the Democratic party and what the role of the government is.

Subject Log / Time Code

LS and HH agree talking to each other, regardless of politics, is important to understanding one another
HH talk about switching parties from Democrat to Independent and how she feels she doesn't align with the two major parties.
LS says switching parties from Democrat to Republican was almost like an awakening for him
LS and HH talk about their religious upbringings
HH talks about how the relationship with her mother changed as she got older - how they can discuss politics. LS wishes he could talk to his daughter about politics.


  • Holley Hughes
  • Larry Shaw

Venue / Recording Kit




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00:00 My name is Holley Hughes. I am 32 years old. Today's date is August 5th, 2021. I'm having this conversation virtually and I live in Oklahoma City. I'm at my house right now and my conversation. Partner's name is Larry. Our relationship is that we are one small, step partners.

00:21 My biggest fear now.

00:24 Well, my name is Larry Shaw. I'm a little bit older. I'm 74. Today is also August 5th 2021. I am facilitating this conversation virtually from my home in Edmond. My one small step partner in this conversation is Holly and

00:49 Here we go.

00:51 Okay. So Larry what made you want to do this conversation today?

00:56 I was invited to it. It sounded interesting. It sounded something that can help expand just on my

01:08 Interested in meeting other people and just doing things.

01:15 And what made you want to join this?

01:19 Pretty much the same reason. I think it's important to talk to other people even if they don't share your views and it's probably a good thing for everybody.

01:31 Yeah.

01:33 I'm going to read your bio, your bio says, I am retired. I have a daughter and a new son-in-law. I was born and raised in California. Having my daughter's. What shape my life. I guess you could say. My daughter is my life. Yes. I am an opinionated. I pretty much grew up without too much parenting. So kind of made my way in the world myself.

01:50 So,

01:52 There were a couple of things. I actually wanted to ask about. I don't know if I can ask you, but I'm going to anyway, the first one is a real basic one. When did you come to Oklahoma? And why did you come here from California? Okay. I didn't want to come. Here are very comfortable in my home. California been in been in my house for 50 years. I came here to be by my daughter. My daughter was originally going to when she got married, her husband would still follow her. If we would have come to California. They decided that it was too expensive to live in California. So we talked about me moving here. And I said I would be willing to then I wasn't willing to do it right away. My daughter and I were both crying on the phone because she said you'd be locate and I said will pretty soon. I won't be mobile your ship me out here and visit me.

02:44 But I went ahead and moved now.

02:47 So here I am so I could be close to. My daughter, family is more important than anything else.

02:54 The other thing I wanted to ask, I don't know if we're just diving in too fast at all. But like, has having your daughter? Be such a big part of your life. Has that changed in your politics at all? Like your personal views?

03:06 No, she's with you.

03:19 And Larry thought, Holly's bio in there for you to read out loud and ask her any questions you have.

03:27 And so what do you want to know the old woman who was born and lived in Oklahoma? All of her life. She grew up in a conservative Baptist household, but no one was there.

03:39 Invested in the name of those labels. I've always been more aligned with Progressive politics and most of my life, and most of my views are very far left. But I'm much more interested in my community and neighbors, then then, with a party label. I'm married with no kids. I work for non-profit helping victims of sexual assault and domestic violence.

04:09 And Holly's by. What questions do you have?

04:18 Her.

04:21 Reviews.

04:23 Is kind of what got her in the direction of her wholesomeness that she's doing in her work for sexual assault and domestic violence to me. Some of the left views go in the same way as far as just wanting to help everybody.

04:42 It's a mature response to that Irene. Yeah, actually, I wanted value helping people. I just want to say as an aside. I thought it was funny. All the people at work thought I was crazy for doing this and they were like, upset a little bit. So doing what the conversation. Yeah, they're like, why would you do that? So yeah, it is definitely more liberal view in the industry.

05:24 I'm I'm a little bit confused, you're saying that you're talking about you having the conversation with small step.

05:33 With somebody on the opposite side.

05:37 That's one thing that puzzles me about some things. I've seen when I watch things on the TV and stuff is because a lot of people from the far left when they don't want to hear somebody else Infuse and to me but hearing it could help you make up your own mind better. You here more information, make up your own mind.

06:00 I agree. That is something that is troublesome for the next one, who has been the most influential person in your life. And what did they teach you?

06:16 I would have to say because I kind of grew up raising myself. My parents were very loving parents, but they were alcoholics and so I didn't really have enough green that way, but they didn't meet me or anything like that. So it's kind of like I didn't have any influence so much as when I did get married and had Rochelle my daughter, that became my main influence, because it kept my attention. What I wanted in life.

06:45 So, kind of everything I did.

06:49 Kind of glue as she grew.

06:55 How about for you? What's your influence in life?

06:59 I think the most influential person that I've had in my life was probably my grandma. My dad's mom. I called her Mamoo.

07:09 I just, I spent a lot of time around here, whenever I was a lot younger and my parents were my dad's, an alcoholic, but my parents were both really busy with work. And so I hung out with my grandparents a lot. But my man who she was just really strange. I guess she was, she had very unique interest for a grandmother. Like she love horror movies and books and she would let me read them and she play me movies like Attack of the Killer Tomatoes or Killer Klowns from Outer Space.

07:58 Really like tearing it away. I don't know. Just something that I really appreciate growing up. She like, for example, when I would stay at her house, she had these like branches outside those scratch, the window, and it was me, and she would make up these weird stories and tell them to me should be like, oh, that's just a monster that lives in the woods that lives in the garden. It's called a scratch. And it's there just to let you know that it's taken. Care of all the things outside. My okay, that makes sense. I'm 7, but she was really sure and enjoyed your company and enjoy the activities with her. But how did that influence you? What did that do? Do, give you guidance in life. I think it was just her personality and her outlook on things. She was always really open-minded about everything and she wanted to tell stories into

08:53 Just know things about people and I always thought that was really cool. That's really nice.

09:00 Okay, here's the big one. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

09:08 Well, for many years I was a Democrat.

09:12 And I thought that was like the the Wholesome Way To Go.

09:16 And I'm not by any means the far-right Republican, but I am a registered Republican.

09:26 I believe.

09:29 And people making their their own way.

09:33 Is my flight to go beers like it. My basic waves way. I look at America. It should be freedom to succeed or fail not freedom to succeed or will take care of you.

09:55 Ashanti fat for you.

09:59 Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

10:05 So, I think it's actually, I didn't put this in my bio or anything. So I think it's kind of funny because I was a Democrat since I was 18 and I actually change my party affiliation last year to Independent, because I don't,

10:22 I guess I don't really aligned with either party at all. I think a lot of my personal values are my political values. So we're as yeah, I definitely do feel like people should have the freedom to succeed or fail. I think at some point if there's no help there for them when they do fail tremendously, then I don't really care how they got there. I kind of feel like I shouldn't be left to just be homeless and not be able to feed themselves and things like that. So I do feel like, if not a government safety-net. I feel like the community should be able to have some kind of ability to take care of them. Those are kind of things I call you, but I don't align myself. I see, I see that in your personality, from your work of wanting to be there to help people. If I can just make a comment that

11:21 I feel that we're if somebody's.

11:26 Physically able to work.

11:29 And they're still out there homeless.

11:33 That they're still on their own. That's how I feel about as long as they are physically able to, because that's what I went through.

11:40 And kind of, I kind of look at why most 10 years ago. 15 years ago. You would have never heard social isn't even discussed whether they call it Democratic Socialism or just socialism, but I feel it's that

12:02 It took a couple hundred years for us to get to the point where now the Millennials as a whole in the country, not in every individual.

12:12 Does not have to worry about their future, another words, when I grew up in all the generations before me, if you didn't make it, you didn't make it and you didn't have mom and dad to take care of it. Just wasn't going to be there if they didn't have the inheritance for you. There just wasn't things there. So,

12:33 I feel like,

12:35 We've created.

12:38 The environment show that

12:42 Anybody want to keep the lab rating. Anyway, that's kind of where I'm at. I would say one thing and then I don't want to, I don't want to like make it a debate, but I did want to say that. I kind of feel like sometimes whenever I hear people talk about Millennials and being spoiled and things like that. Like, I've heard my own parents, say about, I talk to my parents a lot and they're completely, they're completely the right. But I feel like we have a lot of good discussion still, but one thing that I brought it to my parents about it, we were talking about that once was that

13:17 It's not that we don't consider the future or anything like that. It's just more like

13:24 Like considering the price that my parents bought their first home for. And then also, considering the fact that my parents both work at GM, a union job in the late 90s, and 2000, making $25 an hour each with great benefits. Like, I went to this job because it's like, really important to me and I feel really, really good about it.

13:53 And I can go get a job. I got a call center and makes me to boxing our right. I'm never going to be unionized probably in something like that. But I'm working this job now and I work really hard to do my best at it. I'm making like 16 bucks an hour and that's with the with a bachelor's degree which it requires. And I think a lot about specifically because I want to be in a union in Oklahoma, is a good place to be a plumber because they charge a lot here, your parents, the day of the union with the GM and stuff.

14:34 If you go back that many, if you go back to light, a years where they're making that kind of money week and now all the sudden. Cars from most of my scar started coming from other countries. He pretty much price yourselves out of the market because of the great benefits and great salary and it was cheaper to get cars from another country.

14:55 So we kind of ran the bubble out.

15:00 I think for my okay, hang on. Wait, there's a bunch of questions over here, Justin. I think I actually am a curious. I I was just thinking of one, as I was listening to you both talk. But since you both changed, like, made the decision to change your party, what was like was it like a couple factors that led to that? Or was it like one specific thing that you were like, I'm going to change my party.

15:26 Do I go first or me? You can go first for me. It was, It was kind of gradual is almost like an Awakening where I looked at. Well, Democrat sound good. Sounds like your Democratic. So, is he young person? Very immature back in those days. That's kind of what I thought and I thought, well, Republican. It's all big business and they own all the little people and it just kind of look.

15:52 Kind of like business owning the country and as I got older I started realizing that to me. It was the opposite that if you want to become the big business you can and so like iPhone to businesses already. I lost one Havasu in landlord and one I lost with the earthquake in California, but they're both successful as an entrepreneur. I did really well.

16:19 And to me it was make or break it on my own. And there's nothing to help me if I didn't make it.

16:26 And I still just American dream. So I kind of went Republican because I didn't want the government. And yet at the same time. You've known Republican. I believe in Social Security, which I shouldn't say that being a republican. But I think that's only one Avenue of your portfolio. It should not be your portfolio.

16:47 Okay, it should be that you go to McDonalds, to put your kids to college. Okay, everything could be a stepping-stone. Like you, you took a job for the price. You did. You said, cuz you your choice that was those were my words when I started working for the school district and Lake County School District, so I can have insurance. I work, two jobs one to pay for my l a job because I'm a soloist art of making $13 an hour. So I work my way up to like $16 an hour. But today I'm still enjoying the insurance. So that was my choice. I went without the money because I wanted the insurance. So that was nice about America. I had these choices. So I work waiting tables to pay for my job at the school.

17:37 And pay for my home.

17:40 So that's why I change my view from Democrat to Republican. I didn't want government control.

17:47 For me, Isaiah

17:50 It was, it was kind of like.

17:52 A bunch of factors that just kind of all built up over time. I think for me the biggest thing was

18:00 If I'm completely honest, I feel like Democrats and Republicans are basically the same. I don't really trust anything a politician but I feel like I feel like both of them are.

18:14 Bought by different groups and I don't like that. I don't feel like as a citizen. I really have any voting power. If I'm completely honest, I don't really feel like I have that power and I feel like it's kind of made to be that way. Like I went to to be independent and I voted for an independent like in this last election knowing full well that she would not. When I knew that I knew she would get maybe a percent of the vote because she wasn't on TV. They don't put her on the bay stage. They don't put Independence on the news. They don't have them up to actually talk about things but I just felt so refreshed listening to somebody. I just don't want a line myself with either party. I want to have my own ideas and Thoughts with myself as Republican.

19:14 Are far-right work. If you talk with birth control and abortion to self, it's like the moment of conception and just nap while I'm not that extreme, but I'm also not for late-term abortion. So I'm a middle-of-the-road kind of person. I try to be logical in life. But when you talk about it, talk about your comment about money being spoiled were even though my daughter is far left, and I say it's how I raised her. I would not have done it any other way. If I could turn the clock back.

19:48 Because I make sure that my daughter have some kind of inheritance. She's got everything laid out for her. She's very responsible. She's not looking for anybody to give her anything.

20:01 But at the same time, she has your views cuz wants to help the world.

20:06 And I feel like that's also important, right? Like, cuz if I if we did only value.

20:14 Making money and having more, then, nobody would do these jobs. I've actually probably one of the biggest things that I get really frustrated about with politics. Is that working at a nonprofit? It's so demoralizing. You can see what you're doing to help people.

20:31 One. When I was a teenager one back, 50-60 years when I was a little kid.

20:38 They find the philosophy of America was when we're trying to help some other country would be to give them the seeds to grow. Crops were coming. Isn't would come in or socialism and they would give him the corner of the bread. So the people are going to run for the corn in the bread rather than the seats because it's it's it's a it's an easier way and then they become controlled by the government.

21:04 Instead of them learning to be self-sufficient.

21:08 Show me. And so right now I don't feel like we even get to see you, but I feel like that may be why people do talk about communism and socialism and stuff right now in a more positive light is because in their lifetime capitalism appears to have completely failed them, but that leads me to question that I did want to ask you when you were my age. So, in your 30s, how did you feel about America like as a whole? Did you feel kind of patriotic at all? Did you like it in your feelings? I have it for five years. When I was your age. I still have my first restaurant and I was kind of in a bad neighborhood in La. Okay. I had a good restaurant going but I was kind of in a bad area.

22:06 And I'd have young people coming in asking for handouts and I would actually be really rude when I told him to leave and I have some wine or commit being my age, ready at this time, but they come in, boys, in a bag. I'd give him a meal sitting down, cuz I felt why, you know what? You made it through life. You're at that age. I don't care what your problem is. I'm going to take care of you. But if they were a young person, they're younger than me, and they're looking for handouts and here, I'm working for nothing. Trying to get a business started. I had no mercy.

22:37 So I like the American dream. I fell. I'm trying to make it go on dig ditches. Go out and do something may not be your line of work. Make it happen. That's America. That's how I am.

22:50 Do you feel that same way now?

22:53 I have one.

22:57 Do you think there should be a two party system?

23:02 Do you think that there should be a two party system in the United States? At least?

23:07 I mean, I know it was real tired of being one but like

23:14 I think there should be more. That's why I said at least you. So we're on the same page. I'm at the more the better because then you could find middle ground.

23:27 Do you feel like politics kind of like?

23:32 Push you into one camp or the other to where you can't really find that middle ground know. I've always been the way I am. I just can't talk to people about it anymore.

23:43 Because people are too much. We're all your this year that. So now it's is everybody pointing fingers or labeling rather than just respecting. My view is different.

23:53 Didn't used to be that way.

23:56 No.

23:58 Did you used to be able to have discussions that? Just like a curious question? It was always where we could have the debates in the questions always. It's just like

24:11 It's just like, a lot of people at, which are against social security for good reasons because it's looking for government to keep you allowed. To keep you afloat. When you should be doing your own thing in life. I feel it could just be one step in your portfolio. Like I said before. So it's it's but I've never changed my views on this stuff. I've always been this way.

24:35 But the thing is, you just can't discuss it with people. People don't want to hear the discussion anymore. It's just like we're like you feel, there's not enough seeds to help with our country. I disagree with you on. I feel like we're never out of Siege. Another words.

24:52 If you want to be another person to invent another Facebook, we're not going to run out of money just because you're making Amazon or Walmart or a new Corporation, you want to say has all this billions and billions of dollars. That doesn't mean that you can't do it, that they used, that got all the money that you don't have your share. You can quiet to make as much as they do. There's No Limit how much you can make this a limit to how much the country can spend on everybody. That's a budget.

25:21 But there's no limit. You can go out and be a zillionaire. Nobody stopping you.

25:28 You can be another Bill Gates Tomorrow. There's nobody still, we can't nobody say, we're not allowed to, but I think maybe the issue now is that I don't personally me and maybe a handful of people that maybe Share My Views. I don't want to be Jeff Bezos. I don't want to be Bill Gates. I want to live comfortably and that really sometimes feels very, very impossible. It feels very hard to do. Like me and my husband are talking right now about having a kid and I

25:58 I know because people do it that we could. But since I try to be reasonable and rational about things, I feel like, well, my insurance really that is really bad. He has better insurance, but I also don't make how much money

26:20 It just, I guess.

26:23 Sometimes I feel like maybe the biggest divide between at least, generationally was because whenever I talk to my parents, I feel this way too. Is that my parents when they were my age and maybe you too.

26:37 Felt really hopeful about the future and I don't I don't foresee. My generation having Social Security as an option. I don't foresee them having

26:49 Much of anything. I see the house prices, increasing, the wages. Don't are our pay, does not increase with the spices that do I get. It filled all, really, but it feels bad. If you didn't, if you don't have parents who had wealth already, if you did not have wealth already. It feels like it is very, very hard to get to a place where you're at least comfortable even if you worked really hard, but that I feel like that's a difference in your self down.

27:22 I'm not sure what to do with, how you make the step. You find it works.

27:30 I disagree, but I think we should probably move on, so we don't have the actual debate Parts. Oh, yeah, and I want to ask if you both are comfortable talking about, like, growing up in a religious household and how that impacted you as well. He feel comfortable and not and that's Facebook with you.

27:53 Okay, I grew up in a Jewish household and back when I grew up being Jewish. It was pretty rough. As far as hell. If you know, did your, did you down the street? Elijah derogatory. Stuff is what I went through. Am Orthodox Jew, conservatives. You was like in the middle and

28:22 My mother convinced, the girl that was my room much in love with that. If she loved me she wouldn't be with me because she wasn't Jewish.

28:32 So she convinced the girl took to not be with me for that reason. I never forgave my mother for that. She took her to her death, that I never forget her. Still don't in here in my heart and my mother died with somebody that wasn't Jewish.

28:45 My daughter is married to somebody, that's not you. Wish I have no problem with it.

28:50 But that was how I grew up with religion in my life.

28:57 Mine was my parents were Baptist and we went to the Baptist church every Sunday.

29:07 Once I had about my teens, I still would go to church with like my friends and things like that. We would go to Falls Creek, but I was real, I mean, whatever. I was religious. I was really into it. It wasn't like

29:21 Hobby, it was something that I really believed in a lot. And I don't really know why. I don't know what happened really for me with religion, but I'm not really just now. I wouldn't even really consider myself an atheist. I don't know anything. I don't know. I can't say for certain what's going to happen?

29:39 I hope there's an afterlife because that would be cool. If that's really how I feel about it. My view on religion before was that and asked when I was 13, I was born with it. And then that was the last time I participated as far as regularly and I got married to my my daughters Jewish. Sometimes we go to synagogue together.

30:09 But I always felt that religion would be better if it was never shared with anybody.

30:15 Because religion is something that we as a human being need. We need something that we could turn to that. You were somebody else, cannot prove it wrong on. We need something that could give us support in life and stability.

30:29 And I don't need for you to see my way on how I pray to God.

30:36 That you should have to agree with me. It should be where that works. For me is great will work for, you is fine. And that should be, it shouldn't be shared.

30:46 Because I think more people have died, pushing religion, whether it's from the Jewish people breaking Idols or the Christian Crusade or whatever through history. It's trying to put your beliefs on somebody else.

31:01 When it shouldn't matter, everybody Chevelle to pray to God, the way they want, whether it's not idle or whatever that you want to pray to, it should be your God that should if it keeps you a good life and you don't hurt other people.

31:12 That should be wonderful.

31:15 I think I agree with that completely. I don't.

31:20 I don't see anything wrong with religion at all. When I feel like there are a lot of things that

31:26 Like I value, that would probably be.

31:30 Like on par with religion, like I find things very, very deeply important to me and that's just the way that they are. Nobody can telling me differently. That's kind of how I feel about it. I see one question for us here to think about a place of religion and politics definitely, no place.

31:54 I mean, it's not even is oil in water, is there? It's not meant to be together?

32:03 I have a question. What do you think the role of the government should be?

32:11 Support not control.

32:15 Like what could they? I don't know. Sometimes whenever I think about the government and I'm just I think I've already said like I don't really trust the government and what they do most of the time.

32:26 But sometimes I guess I just don't see the point where there's there's that old, there's that old saying which has never wronged power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. So, regardless of whether it's a church or politics or whatever it is, if there's if there's too much control, it becomes corrupted. So your right might agree with you about the police being corrupt because it's too much power.

32:56 And so that's kind of how I feel about that. But I'm leaving that with anything with power than just our corrupt. It's not. That money is bad. Money doesn't corrupt.

33:09 But if that gives you the power now you become corrupt because of your power, not because the money sometimes I get mad about how much power money does have especially in politics cuz if you have enough money, you buy it.

33:35 We got some other questions. Do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you and how? So,

33:46 Why do I feel misunderstood by people in different beliefs?

33:51 Like, maybe a far-left will only in the sense that

33:57 There's no way that you could really see why I believe the way I do.

34:03 Because your your your beliefs are going to be strong to you which could almost put blinders on. So even though you're hearing me, you're not listening to me. So because you, you know, what's right in your mind. And so I'm not going to be understood because you're still interpreting what, you know to be right to you as a person. Not just you Holly, but anybody

34:28 I think I can understand a lot of what you're saying. No, do you feel like you understand what I'm saying to you?

34:35 I think so. I think I just need time in my mind. I try to rationalize why you're thinking that way. It's like I started off by saying that oh, you're in the field of business. You are because you want to help people which is a far left you of wanting to help you, but that's me trying to rationalize and I don't even really know you and I'm already trying to tell you what I think you are.

34:58 But I think,

35:02 I mean, that's not a bad thing. Even though, I guess to want to help people. I'm sure plenty of people on the phone. Right? When I help you, Nothing bad about me being worried. I'm thinking how I interpret you before I even hear you now, I understand. So that's that narrow part that even I have. Okay, because I'm going in My Views, so I'm already determined on how you're thinking before I even hear you.

35:33 Yeah, I agree.

35:41 Actually, does that like is it uncomfortable to like recognize that and like work through that? As like you're trying to listen to somebody? Like, what is that? Like feel like I guess. Okay. I said something to my daughter today earlier.

35:58 And are we making this yesterday? And before she even got home? I called her on the phone. She still driving home and I said, Rachelle. You're right. I was wrong.

36:10 And then when she got home, I sent her in the dentist, sending a message saying, you know what? That's not even nothing apology. I know.

36:20 That it is. No excuse for the way. I was thinking and how I talk, I just eating terrible.

36:27 And we didn't even hit you and even thought nothing about if you witnessed it, okay, but it felt bad enough to me. So I think lately I I'll try to answer you by letting you know that.

36:43 I don't have I have ego but I don't have an ego to push.

36:47 So if I'm wrong on something.

36:50 I want to do better.

36:53 It's okay to be wrong.

36:56 And unfortunately, that's what happens with people in my personal life. I wouldn't want to explain why, but that's what I would. I learn when people have lack of self-esteem.

37:11 What? I I thought that people have lack of self-esteem build. I could be more Macho, go look up to me. It doesn't work. That way. When somebody has a lack of self-esteem. They can't be at fault for anything. They have to be the football somewhere else because they can't handle the fault. It's like a self-esteem worth. You feel strong about yourself.

37:32 You don't mind being wrong. You could beat me up all day long. It's okay. I screwed up.

37:38 I still love myself. It's okay.

37:43 I think I know everything, like with politics is like, especially now politics. A lot of times feels like a like a basketball game. So you have your team and now you have to defend them you, when you're 18, you sign up for that one side, and that's your side now. And you must fight. This is why I didn't like what would go on in California with Berkeley and all this other stuff, where they wouldn't let a republican speak, because they don't hear your view. Or I even saw an interview with somebody from you. What's it called, a cheetah, which I called antifa. Anyway, where they were being interviewed. And there were saying,

38:27 The person was trying to ask them in the interview. Will why not hear my view while you're attacking America. You're attacking me. So I can't let you do that. That so they actually believe by not letting you speak. Your views is protecting America. This was coming from the person, one of the creators of the Tifa.

38:48 I saw this just a few days ago. So.

38:52 It's I don't know what, let me just say that. What were we talking about that? Got me to that point but

39:00 Don't like fighting fighting in politics. So it's where we have these pick a side and that's your side because people don't want to hear your view because they just want their own view cuz that's it.

39:17 They want their own views validated instead of light to understand more, right? Actually, keightley. I did tell you about this Larry. Have you ever heard of next door? Have you ever heard of next door? It's like a nap and neighborhood app where you can look at what's going on in your neighborhood? Yeah, I have that because I'm living here. I did that, but I don't really participate. I did it to sell something. You know, I don't want you leaving your cat. It's really useful. They have political groups on there. And I Join one that was like, just general, it was run by democrats, but it was supposed to be for everybody. And then I joined a truck train group because

40:02 I want to know is the one asking all these questions and stuff on both of them. And I guess I probably got a little bit more argumentative on the group just because I figured, you know, you're supposed to be my side so I can press you more or you're falling it. You're pulling into the same thing. We just talk inside again, but I thought that we could actually have harsher discussions on there because we allegedly have similar. I have nothing against you being a kind of group. But if it doesn't interest me where I want to talk to me about politics other than my daughter, because I want to love my daughter and I don't want us to be at odds with it, but that's being a dad. So but

40:52 It's like her husband. I won't will go back and forth and discuss things but my daughter and I are both hot blooded. So it's best if I just leave it alone because I'm not going to make a difference and I want to enjoy my life with her.

41:05 See, I feel like I'm closer to my mom now that I was before and it's because we actually have those discussions like we wouldn't we absolutely cannot do it before but I feel like maybe I'm older wish I could talk to my daughter but I can't doesn't work on that. We could talk about anything. I wouldn't be here for my daughter is there's no question that I sold my boat and my truck the whole way of life and moved here. So that was it. So, but I hope that sometime in the future that I can have the relationship to talk politics, like you do with your mother. That would be wonderful if you coming referee.

41:56 I'll come, I'll come stand in between. Okay, hang on.

42:07 I would say.

42:10 Raising minimum wage.

42:13 No, that's just know. That's what about unionization Larry. How do you feel about that? Okay, I'm I'm kind of lost on that because, you know, I don't like government control, but I grew up where you had to show him your station for your kids, to go to school. So now I meant unionization not immunization.

42:37 Go on about that if you want, normally, I'm against unions, even though it's in Union with the school.

42:47 And I was getting drop out and still be there, but I ended up finishing my years that I had with them and just left a b.

42:56 Because of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely unions have too much power. Like if you saw the movie, that Sally Fields played in which one, where she's fought for the Union.

43:09 It was that it was a fantastic movie. It's a true story.

43:14 And where was she was in the sweatshops and stuff. And she got it. Union, use unionized. And it was great. People had no representation. People need representation in the company, but the union shouldn't have the power to kill the company either. It should have an arbitrator, this not in either one.

43:35 Okay, like it. If you're married couples going for divorce. They go to an arbitrator judge to listen to both sides.

43:43 So here if Union wants to do this, in the company, doesn't want to do it and you can put them out of business.

43:51 Is this guy always fire, anybody for whatever reason they like those. So shouldn't we have some kind of increase power being workers? I would be Affiliated either way.

44:08 But now we must take control. So what do you think some issues are that we can and should come together on.

44:16 From all sides.

44:18 There's no way to mention that in this time, but for like the immunization, I would make a comment because I'm really exhausted my mind on how I feel about all my friends saying, oh, I don't want to be told I have to get the, the shot in this and that

44:35 I agree with the freedom that way of not being forced. But at the same time.

44:41 When I was a kid, if you didn't have your polio shot than this shocking that shot, you could use and go to public school, you know, and back then pull. It was a big deal. Okay, so these were immunizations that were important.

44:55 So I feel this is just one more.

44:58 So I I'm in favor of having forced immunization for kids to go to school.

45:06 But at the same time, I don't really understand like most people this disease that well to know because they not really, they came with the vaccination so quick. We don't know how harmful it could be. We don't know anyting, it could be years before we know.

45:20 But if we were years down the line and it was safe like a polio shot at States, then I'm agreeing that it should be mandatory for the kids. Not for the adults.

45:30 How old, how old are you in over? Polio was a thing? How old were you in over polio was abuse concern?

45:42 But can you remember it? Basically, I was going to ask, do you remember if people were like this back then, where they like? No, you can't make me get a shot? No, no, no. No.

45:53 And then they wouldn't be alone. Public school. That's very me, an iced. Okay, that was just the way it was, whether it's for chicken pox, or for all these things, you know, but it was accepted and it wasn't looked upon as government control. It wouldn't have looked upon it was more, like, somebody would have religious beliefs. Like, I don't believe in going through it. Back those days. It was people that say, you know, I won't go to the doctor. I'm going to do my own remedy leaving the hospital. So I'm going to rub your stomach in the kidney disease. Will go away. That's how that's where that goes back. To like a religious belief where they didn't look at it. Nobody said, I was government control for an immunization. Nobody even said those words. So the people that didn't want it, never, blamed, quote-unquote, the government.

46:40 They had whatever their other political reasons are their religious beliefs, whatever their release, whatever their reasons. Were. Nobody ever said, it was government at least I never heard of it.

46:53 So that's best. I can answer that.

46:56 I wonder why that is.

46:59 I'm not sure 10 minutes left 10 minutes. That was like actually have five now. Oh my God.

47:09 I'm going up. I would ask it. Like if you had any questions you've been thinking about, leading up to this call. I dad say to ask those now, but I have put the closing questions in there as well.

47:24 Is there anything you learned about me today? That surprised you Larry?

47:30 That's not a bad thing. Was I that predictable?

47:36 Was I that predictable?

47:40 No, I did. It. Just kind of like.

47:43 It's not like something traumatic happened, that made you go from right to left or this to that.

47:49 It's just that's how you feel. So and it's and how it's how I see it. It's how I see it because I'm hell Millennials grew up.

48:02 What you think do you think that my politics are? Just because I grew up a millennial.

48:10 Pretty much. I think something that we didn't really get into here at all.

48:17 Is personal experiences and harsh personal experiences? I would say that. That is something to keep in mind with people, because I've had plenty of really bad things. Happen to me. I don't like to talk about them. I don't want to scare them that time, that's pretty mature back then, and I wanted to move out. I moved in with somebody that was no coholic. And I didn't know it. So I he was going to get me a good construction job. I quit my job to go with him and up with no job. My parents, the door was open for me to come back. My parents always had Larry don't drive without insurance at $100 in my car insurance. And I lost in seven weeks. I lost 35 lbs in 6 or 7 in my way. Still going hungry and my parents are going to come back home.

49:18 And I walked up and down the street asking for jobs and sewing shops in yardage things nuclei. What would I do? But I just went and I finally walked into a place. That was a newspaper shop. Never been in one of my life and the foreman said they didn't have anything. I'll just had him in tears. He hired me for 2 days a week to sweep. The floor. Just to be nice within one year as a journeyman, Pressman push myself.

49:45 Let me, I thought I got my first job when I was 16 was going out to every store until they hired me, but I really want thing. I got, I have to say, I do get really frustrated with this, and I don't think it's because I'm an older Millennial. I think this is just kind of how people are how they aren't, but I work really hard, really hard and it doesn't

50:10 One thing that I will say that I was always frustrated about when I was younger and I'm not now cuz I'm really close with my parents. Is that one thing that our parents generation taught us and three younger than you is. I'm not even sure if that would be considered in the same area that they always said those, you have to go to college, you have to do this, you have to do this, you have to do a good job. When you do that, you have to go to college and get a degree in any kind of degree. You go and do that now and you come out of college of the bachelor's degree and then you get paid $15 an hour and that is not something that our parents could have predicted but that is where her parents kind of lettuce. And so it kind of feels like everything is led up to this point now and it's not her parents fault. Did you could be the plumber? I'm really I'm not even joking. That's kind of like my next step because I feel like that would also be really rewarding in a way.

51:11 I feel indebted to my job. I feel like I actually need to do this because

51:18 It's a weird kind of moral burden. I feel like if I don't do it, somebody who is wanted to do something like that. Since I was a teenager, if I give up on it and go do this other thing that I actually really want to do. Now. You don't want to do it and no one is going to help people and that hurts my heart because it is important that you do financially, take care of your future. So that is important for your life and you only have one life.

51:46 And if your life is spent not being able to be successful financially to give yourself strength that way, then you're not free to help the people you want to help.

51:57 Where if you had Bill Gates his money just for example, you could be helping all the people you want it cuz you had all that money and you don't even want all that money. So what I'm saying is that if you step back for a. Of time, becomes a plumber.

52:13 I took an online course and I got a certificate for them being electrician. Okay, if you take, if you take a step back become that plumber, then you could devoting time on your days off and stuff, volunteering stop doing stuff to help people. Like you're helping now won't get paid for it, but you could still be helping people. And then as you become more successful, more financially secure, then you could do more with that money to help the people. You want to help. Yeah. I know where I'm headed right now. It just it's demoralizing. Do you understand? Well, because you have your Niche you have with working right now, it's getting it but it's not though. It's really not, it's kind of like this may be a bit so they don't want you to get the wrong idea here. I just filled the Holden now that I've been

53:13 People holding to your self. Well, it's your life and your choice, right? But that is where it gets me, then. It's just what you have to learn to, to want, and, and, and what you need. And sometimes the difference is, and I, we said this is what most men don't understand about women. Women are used to being wanted.

53:45 But they're not used to being needed.

53:48 And a lot of times you, women will go to a man because they feel needed more than just wanted where you can go out to a club else and nobody wants to go to bed with you. They want you but do they need you?

53:59 And I think that,

54:06 If you get to the point, where you go for your needs, rather than your mom wants, what do you need in life?

54:20 A cat, a wrap-up.

54:23 Was I who you expected was? I who you expected me to be?

54:31 Yeah, mostly I think so.

54:35 I think it was.

54:37 I think so.

54:42 But I feel like we had a good conversation, though, still.

54:46 It wasn't, it wasn't super contentious or anything. Do you think so? No, I like the last question, but would not answer. How can we come together after a pandemic and diverse selection this past year?

54:59 How can we? I don't know like out for the Karen's out there. I watch all those on YouTube.

55:06 Like I told my daughter, you know? And here in Oklahoma when they were lifting their masks, you know, where you don't have to wear masks. So you going one story out of work, but another store you didn't. So instead of making a big deal. So weird in the store, that's what they want. I got my stuff and I leave good next door. They don't want me to and you don't care if I wear it or not fine. And other words does not matter with the laws, if that's what their store policy is respected by your stuff and leave.

55:33 Yeah, I don't see why everybody made a big deal about it. Although I will say it's crazy like that now schools can't even make the Mandate. I think the best way to come together is probably doing stuff like this until now that we are done fighting and immediately hating the other person which I feel like is what people have a really big issue if they really they see the other side as so.

56:03 Morally wrong, or misguided, or bad, and so, it's hard to ever have those real discussions, but

56:13 I'm very strong in Miley at beliefs about not being far left, but I don't think anybody in the far left is that

56:21 I feel as if I was going to label it, I would say mislead. They don't understand. They don't see reality. I would label things that way not that there an enemy.

56:33 Yeah, I feel like after talking to a bunch of people on the far, right? Like the far far right? I don't hate them. I don't think they're bad people. I think a lot of the things that they read our

56:44 They're misleading on purpose. And I feel like that upsets me because a lot of things on both sides. They are misleading and they are meant to make us upset.

56:54 And fight like a lawyer, will not lie, but complete opposite by not telling you the whole truth. I'm telling you fragment, that could be extremely misleading.

57:08 But it's not a lie, exactly.

57:11 Spell. Technicalities.

57:16 Thank you for, thank you guys for taking your, your time, and that, and you're in your Thursday afternoon before probably have had dinner to do this. It, it's a lot. I hope that your

57:36 I like that is good. I thought like you guys have been, I'll go ahead and set the recording.