Hoover H.I.A. Interview w/ Mia pt.1

00:01 All right, my name is Griffin.

00:04 I'm here with mia petronella. I'm 20 and I'm from Algonquin, Illinois.

00:11 And then what is your preferred. What is your relevant demographic group?

00:16 Would you say lgbt? I'm queer.

00:22 And that preferred pronouns?

00:24 They, she, swag.

00:34 How would you say was growing up LGBT in Algonquin?

00:39 I was closeted for a big portion of it because of how homophobic a lot of my classmates were. And I had already struggled with enough bullying just because of how everything else I already was. I did not want to add being out and about on top of that. And then when I did come out, it wasn't very good and I probably should have waited.

01:04 When did you kind of like one. Sorry, there's like a two part question. When did you realize that you were queer and. Or gender fluid?

01:16 Non binary.

01:17 Non binary. And then when did you come out to the general populace?

01:25 I think it's when I watched Victorious for the first time. I saw Jade and I saw Andre and I went, oh, no, that's fair, that's real. It was just a lot of stuff like that. Right. I noticed girls were really, really pretty and sometimes even prettier than the boys were. And I did not know how to handle it. And so I'm talking like a lot of late night scrolling on my dad's laptop trying to figure out what was what. And I think my parents had an inkling based off of my dad's YouTube search history after I was, you know, went. After I was done with it. And so that was a fun conversation to have with my parents when I did eventually come out. I think I officially came out seventh, eighth grade. And yeah, I should have waited, should not have come out as soon as I did. It did not make the bullying any better. Shocking. But I think a big reason why I did feel comfortable enough to come out was because all of my friends were queer as well. You know, everyone had those kids in their middle school.

02:30 Would you say it made it like easier on you mentally initially coming out, or was it like, oh, now I have to deal with all of these people being very judgmental towards me. But like, was there like a sense of like, relief and like, they can't really hold it against me. Cause I know what I am.

02:47 Yeah, 50. 50. I'd say I did. I was definitely. It was like a weight off my shoulders because, you know, people in my school, I was already in my head when I came out. I was already getting bullied. It's not like they could have made it Worse. And I was right with that. It didn't really make it. I mean, it didn't help it any, but I don't think it made it exponentially worse. But it also was a little rough because I hadn't come out to my family at that point. I didn't come out to my family until high school, so that was worrying because I was just struggling with. Hoping it wouldn't come back to them.

03:23 I would say, because you grew up in, like, a religious household or. Religious.

03:26 Yes, very religious. Still are.

03:30 How was that with, like, your relationship with being LGBT and then, like, the church?

03:37 Not good. I think everyone's first religious, first church experience is basically how it's gonna. It's gonna set the stage for the rest of their religious experience. And by the time I was figuring out my identity, I was more aware of what was going on in my first church. And this dude who I really looked up, he came out as gay and gender fluid, and he was ostracized from the church. He was. He. People would call him slurs during church. They would make fun of him during the service. It basically ran him and his family out. And I think one that really hurt my view on religion, just in a whole and religious people, and also my own personal view of myself, because this is when I was, you know, I was like, am I question mark? And I think that's a big reason, too. I didn't. It took me. You know, I feel like I knew a lot sooner than I admitted to myself because of that. And that also struggled with why I waited for so long to come out to my family. Just because of stuff like that.

04:52 Yeah, no, it's not the easiest thing because, like, literally, you see it before your eyes are like, oh, these people do not accept me for who I am. Yeah, like, you kind of just got to sit there with that and go like, oh, because what? You still go just as, like, a volunteer, right?

05:09 Yes. Every. Every other Sunday, I still volunteer there. They're a lot more accept. This church is a lot more accepting. They're a lot chill. When I went back to MIA instead of using a different name, my old youth pastor actually reached out to me, and we had a. We met up, and we had a conversation about why. Because he was actually learning and wanting to learn so he could better reach other kids who might have been struggling with the same things I was. And I think if I had someone like that in my corner when I was in middle school, I definitely would have been. I probably would probably. I probably still would be. Religious.

05:47 No, it is really important. Especially with anything in general. Obviously. Like, especially when it's like I'm different from somebody else in a way that is not inherently like important as to what. You know what I'm saying? Not that it doesn't define you as a person.

06:06 No. Yeah.

06:06 You're saying a lot of people will see it as your gay. Like start pointing fingers.

06:12 Yeah.

06:13 Like cast you aside. Like that happened to the guy you were just talking about earlier. It's very helpful early on to just say, hey, like you're doing you man.

06:24 Yeah. 100%. Cuz you are more than your sexuality or your gender identity. And I don't think I realized that until a little. I. I realized that until a little later in life.

06:34 No. Like that's something that's always been. Especially as you're growing up in general. There's like defining of what do I want to be? Who am I going to grow up to become. And then there's that added aspect of will people. There's already the idea of like I don't want to upset my parents for like what career path I pick or. And then it's just ends up blowing up into will they like me for how I choose to display.

07:05 Yeah.

07:05 Myself in a way. I'm wearing that little part. But you know how.

07:08 Yeah.

07:09 I decide to be in society not as like this terrible project being me.

07:16 100%.

07:17 You know what I mean? That kind of segues in what I want to talk about. How do you feel about the importance of like having just LGBT in general represented in media?

07:28 I think it's great, but I think it needs to be done.

07:30 Well.

07:32 A lot of LGBT media fetishizes or you lesbian media specifically. You need to have the butch and you need to have the femme. You can't have femme. Femme, butch, butch. I don't know how to say that like straight terms.

07:47 But display more. You need to have one who needs one view of.

07:53 Yeah.

07:53 This thing. Like it's not just. This is a lesbian person.

07:57 Yeah. A lot of gay media is very. You can tell which one's supposed to be the girl and which one's supposed to be the boy. And That's a struggle 100%. Cause people never, you know that's never gonna happen even in like heterosexual relationships. You're not gonna have one masculine, masculine dude and one really, really femme chick. Like there obviously people are nuanced and that's never gonna be 100%. I think that's a big thing. I also think they need to do it in A way that isn't trying to think of the way the word this, because there's a way I word it that makes sense to me, but I don't know if it'll make sense. So Ellen is a gay person for straight people. Do you know the movie Simon versus The Homosexual Agenda? What's the real movie?

08:47 Love Simon.

08:48 Love Simon. Love Simon is a gay movie for straight people. It's enough for them to dip their toes in to start understanding, but when a gay person watches it, it's this romanticized, glorified view of what it means to be gay. And I think there are so many old 2000s teen shows that actually talk and show queerness in a way that's much better than some recent stuff. And I think if. Like, obviously, I think a big part of it, too, is the fact that they were allowed to be homophobic back then, and, like, people wouldn't get up in arms about it because they understood. And nowadays there is sort of that thing where it's like, oh, people. People want their children especially to be shielded from a lot of that hatred, and people themselves just want to be shielded from a lot of that hatred, which is why I think we get such glorified, romanticized views of gay life.

09:49 Do you think there's also. Because there's. Obviously, there's people on the other end of the spectrum who are like, keep this out of my media. Like, how are you? How dare you show this to my kids? And my children. Which is obviously a view that. I'm gonna put it much nicer than some other, is very. Just ignorant and outdated and dated. Yes. Of what it is. How do you feel about having this? I mean, you already kind of explained, but how do you feel about having it in, like, media meant for younger audiences instead of something like a high school film, like something like. Like Steven Universe. You know what I mean?

10:28 Yeah. So my big thing about that is the fact that more often than not, people only see gay people as a sexualized view. It's a spiritual, especially with lesbians. And I've seen it even more where if it's a lesbian couple versus a gay couple, people are more up in arms about the lesbian couple because they see it as just sexualized. And I think that's a big thing. But let me. Sorry. Okay, good. Repeat your question, please.

11:04 How do you feel about portrayal of LGBT in children's media or media intended for younger audiences?

11:12 That's what I thought it was, but then I was afraid I was gonna start going on a different tangent.

11:16 You can Go on a tangent if you want to.

11:18 No, I think it's a good thing. I think kids need to be aware that It's a thing 100%. I. I think if I was aware when I was younger, I definitely would have had a lot less harder conversations of myself, for myself and with myself. However, like I said it, I'm afraid people will think it's too sexualized, and that in and of itself is a problem. However, you also have to think of the aspect of how do you know for a fact that they're gay? You know, are they gonna, like, you see a little peck, a little smooch, or is it gonna be like, in passing like that. Oh my God. What? That. What's that one movie with the people with the blue skin and Tom Holland was in it. It was a Disney movie.

12:00 I know what you're talking about. They're like elves.

12:01 Yeah, yeah.

12:02 There was like the cop who's not distinctly lesbian.

12:06 Yeah. And then she mentioned in passing about her wife. Is it gonna be something like that or is it going to be like that one scene in Finding Dory where the two background characters kiss, the two background moms kiss, you know, stuff like that. Like that's, I think was completely fine because it shows children, especially young children, because those are what those movies are, that it's just as normal as straight couples. Because I'm sure you're gonna see a bunch of that stuff. Those kids are gonna see a bunch of that stuff. Growing up and seeing just little bits and pieces of queer couples will 100% change. I think a lot of kids views, especially as they grow up and they start getting sucked into these YouTube videos and these other sorts of content creations where they are going to pick up a lot of their beliefs and their political opinions from those content creators.

13:03 Like, do. What would you say to someone who's like, more abrasive, I guess, is how I would put it towards like their kid? So this is gonna be like a bit of a double question. Like one, just consuming that media in general or two, just like a parent who's like, trying to understand what. Like that just doesn't get the fact that their kid is like this. It, like lgbt.

13:33 Yeah. So, like, what would I say to.

13:34 Parents who are not like, against, like against or like just like confused on the subject itself or like trying to understand.

13:44 Yeah. I think a big thing is parents need to be aware that those. Whatever they're feeling, their kid is going to be feeling it 10 times more. Their. Their kid. Their kid is 100% terrified and confused and struggling with what they're going through. And especially if that parent in the past has made some offhanded homophobic comments, it's going to be 10 times worse for the kid. So, 100. My first thought is just being there for your kid, first and foremost, don't say anything. Don't. Don't. Try not to show your emotions on your face. Just let your kid come to you and talk to you. And I think it's one of those things where it's. They're going to have to do some internalized reflection on how can they make their kid comfortable. And if their views hold so much weight in their heart, they would be willing in the future to just never have contact with their kid again. Because I think that's a big thing parents don't realize is they're gonna go there and they're gonna be jerks and they're gonna spew vile hatred, and then 20 years later, gonna be confused why their kid no longer talks to them. And I think it's. It's once again that thing of, like, gay people are normal. Like, it's been a thing for years and years and generations and decades. Almost. I mean, not even almost. It has been. They just haven't been out. And when you look at the stuff queer people have done for other communities, not just the queer community, you know, it's just stuff like, they're normal people. They're 100% normal people. And you as a parent need to embrace that and work on your own internal biases on how to make your kid more comfortable. How to. I did not answer your question correctly at all. I'm pretty sure.

15:41 No, I get what you're saying.

15:42 Okay. Like, started thinking about it, I was like, ooh.

15:45 The way I am interpreting what you're saying is just, like, obviously, be there for your kid and just, like, understand that what they're going through is, in a much broader term of things. Every single kid questions a lot of things they would do, especially as they're, like, growing up into, like, their tweens. You know, they're hitting puberty. Is when the questioning starts really happening in terms of, like, sexuality and gender.

16:09 Mm.

16:10 You know what I mean? It's very. In my. I don't mean to, like, answer it for you, but, like, it's important to understand that exploring these ideas is not a bad thing 100%. And the ideas in and of itself are not bad either. You know, these are things that have just been there. It's just been much more Difficult, Yeah. Especially in terms of the societal views on things, for people to be open about it. And even though it is still better, it's better now in very big air quotes. It's still very much not. So, like, look at what's been happening, like, unable, like, coming up to, like, the elections. I look at what people are saying, like, they're turning the kid. They're making my kid trans at school. They're doing gender surgery in the classes. And it's like, where, where do we get this? How did we end up here? Instead of just, no, no, you're okay.

17:10 I think a big thing of it is also just people don't do their own research. They read something and they go, yes, that's true. That's fact. Like even recent, like this Sunday, I was helping out with the kids. And keep in mind, these kids are all under the age of three, right? These are babies. And I'm working. And one of my other volunteers, she started talking and I was talking about one of the kids I work with and how he will only learn if I meow at him after every sentence. Yeah, okay, why not? And she's like, well, you gotta be careful. You can't. You can't embrace that too much. Cause otherwise he's gonna be one of those kids using those litter boxes in the school. I go, they don't do that. She goes, yes, they do. They're for the students. I go, no, they're not for the students. If you, if you read an article, you would learn that they're for ESA is emotional support animals. Or. And. And if worse comes to worse, they're only in, like, if worse comes to worse. If students were to use it, it'd be because of shootings. Like, that's the only time they're ever used for students. And it's just like, so many people are uneducated and not wanting to do their own research. So they read one thing and they move on. And I think that's a big thing too is people need to be receptive to hearing things they're not going to want to hear, and they need to be prepared to do their own research at the same time.

18:33 Do you know of any places where it's like, what if I want to learn more about this? Do you know of any spots to go? Or is it just.

18:40 I'm a big. Honestly, I like, I'm really annoying with the fact that I read all of my research online and there are obviously websites, I should say new sites. I go to more news sites than actual Random websites that are more centrist and there you can 100% find those. I'm blanking on literally all of them right now, which is very fun. But also, you know, you can very much tell when a new site is very more left or more right. And what I like to read both of them and see where they're agreeing versus where they're disagreeing and then kind of go towards where the middle. Because that's when you're going to get the actual facts. You know.orgsites.gov sites, stuff like that. Those are also very beneficial.

19:25 I feel like one of the really important things, especially in terms of like research for like LGBT in general is I had it blanked on it. Like it's very hard to find somewhere, especially when it comes to something as heated is the way I'm going to put it.

19:52 Yes.

19:53 As LGBT issues.

19:55 Yes.

19:55 Because the people on the left are obviously going to advocate a lot more for these things. And then the other end of the spectrum is very much not for it. You know, you got people who are like, if your girl has like too masculine of a chin or too broad a shoulder, we're gonna, we're gonna investigate the gender of your kid. We're gonna transvestigate your like 15 year old daughter. Yeah, they have, they're, they're doing too well in these sports.

20:24 Yeah, 100%. And that's terrifying and just terrible. And there's so many things. They're like, oh, the way we can outsmart the trans people is by making them all drop trow in the bathroom. No, no. And you already. Yeah, and that's a big thing about actual like scholarly, academic research websites as well, is that there are always going to be some that are way more on the right than the left and vice versa. And you have to, you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. Even if it seems like it's the most centrist thing in the world, you're still gonna have to take it with a grain of salt because no matter what, they're still. Everyone, always, everyone has their internal biases and they're always gonna come out, whether they, whether they think they're coming out or not into your writing and into your presenting in your speech, no matter what.

21:17 Now especially like, I know we're, we're not like older, but us as adults, it's a little different because we've gone like gone through the motions in a sense of what it is.

21:30 Yes.

21:30 Like the biggest worry a lot of people have is how like people around Our age are, like, affecting the youth of the lgbt because they have this idea that we're, like, infinite them.

21:43 Yeah.

21:44 The woke mind virus. You know what I mean? They're like, this. This dude is gonna speak to my kid about how it's okay to be gay, and then my kid's gonna be gay.

21:53 Yeah.

21:53 And just like, I, like, like, what is your. What are your thoughts on people who have that mindset, like, towards the younger people who might just not be as aware of the emotions they are feeling?

22:09 Not a thing. I feel like that's very much obvious, especially for a lot of. And I think at that point, you have to question how it's like one of those things where it's like, okay, sure, maybe we are infecting your kids, but we aren't. How did any of us get infected then? Because this was not a very widely talked about topic until the 2000s. Let's be honest. Even early night or late 90s, it was still very taboo. Like, it was talked about. Yes. But it was very taboo because. So even then, how did they get infected? How did they get infected? This isn't like a virus. This isn't like cordyceps or something where one little thing is gonna trigger an entire meltdown like this. That's not how it works. And I think, once again, it goes back to my. One of my earlier points of just education. You cannot. You need to be educated, because let's be on. Even if it is gay, I'm not making you an atheist right now. I'm not. I wasn't turned into an atheist by talking to a bunch. By being talked to by an atheist when I was a kid. I'm not doing this, this, and the third, trying to make your kids gay or something like that. And it's just. It's just back into that education where people learn. It's just a mindset. Because then you also have to think about it on the flip side. Did they. Were they indoctrinated to be straight? Was this. Like, did they see a bunch of straight people growing up and they're like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna be? No, it was just inherent nature for them to be straight, for them to find people the opposite gender attractive. So what I'm, you know, something that's never. I've never been able to wrap my mind around, no matter how hard I try. Is the fact that it's like, why is gay unnatural to them, but straight is. If they never thought to question their.

23:50 Own straightness, you know, I know you're saying. I personally think the main reason. It kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier, like, that representation in general, it has not been as apparent to a lot of people up until, like, obviously there were things like the Stonewall riots that were, like, huge, very big moments in the history of lgbt. But, like, how many people that are not with. Already in the LGBT community or are interested in it really know about these things?

24:26 Yeah.

24:26 Unless it's displayed on a big TV screen for them to look at and say, here is this thing that is gay or is, like, showing what gender fluid is or. Especially when it comes to the people within. The media itself, for me, has always been something very interesting because there's the idea of people who are not within that community playing a character where you can say it's just them doing a job.

24:54 Mm.

24:55 And then there's also people, not even just actors, like, celebrities in general, who are, like, ousted.

25:02 Yes.

25:03 And that, to me, is a very big issue.

25:05 And it's a thing.

25:06 Yeah. Like, even just like, when it comes, like, 10 years ago, like, Tim Cook. I mean, like, randomly, like, 10 years ago, some guy in the news was like, yeah, no, like, you're gay. Right. And they. He was like, just, like, froze.

25:22 Yeah.

25:22 Because it's still seen as just like, oh, my God.

25:25 And that was like, 24.

25:27 No. Yeah.

25:28 Like, that's terrifying.

25:30 Like, how I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this. Like, how do you feel about people who are just not standard, but, like, just heterosexual people portraying individuals they are not related to in terms of, like, gender fluidity, sexuality versus people on the other end, where it's like, Hunter Schaeffer or Elliot Page, like, Hunter Schaeffer has said, like, a couple of times, like, I don't want to be known as just a trans actress because at the end of the day, they are an actress.

26:12 Yeah. I always think it will be more beneficial to. For a queer person to play a queer person. There are 100% straight actors, though, who wipe the floor. I'm going to be so honest, I'm blanking on all of them. I'm pretty sure, like, the Modern Family couple. I'm pretty sure both of them are straight, or at least one of them is. But, like, the phenomenal. And they also both broke the stereotype of what, you know, the man and the woman in the relationship. What I thought was fun. I've never seen the show, not gonna lie. But from what I've seen, phenomenal. Phenomenal. However, I do think if the trans actor or Actress wants to continue playing it 100%. But I know, me personally, I would. It would be rough if I was a trans woman and I was only known for my. For being trans or I was only chosen for trans roles. That would be probably. That would just be debilitating for your mental health almost. Because once again, you are outing, like, obviously you're out, but you still have to deal with that backlash every single time. Because how many people are gonna know if you, you know, or how many people are going to be reminded and then go, oh, yeah, I can hate on this person. I forgot. And not even that. It's just. It's almost invalidating your gender identity because you aren't a woman. You're a trans woman. Not even. Like, you aren't. You aren't a man. You're a trans man. You have to have that trans in there. Otherwise you're not human to me. You're subhuman almost. You and I, if they are 100% up for it, I said, hell yeah. Queer over straight when playing queer characters any day of the week. But there are times when it's just not beneficial to anyone involved.

28:06 You mentioned, like, the trans man verse being like a real man thing. Like, how do you feel about the balance of understanding that it is important. Like, some people do find it mentally very important that, yes, they are this trans man or trans woman, but they are like, the way I view it is a trans man is a man, a trans woman is a woman.

28:34 Yes.

28:35 But to them, it is very important or it is very important if you are a trans man or woman, to have an individual out there like Elliot Page, who is a publicly trans man. Like, how would you feel, how do you feel about the importance of defining I am a trans man versus I'm just a man?

28:57 I think everyone wants to have their gender identity, identity validated 100%. And as a young trans kid, if you see that trans person on the screen, you know that you aren't this freak show, you aren't this weirdo who, who's never gonna succeed in life because you are seeing someone succeed right in front of you. And I think that's wonderful. However, I'm also. I also think that they are more than just their gender identity and their. Their transness. And I think as kids, as young trans kids grow older, they will also start to see that as well, if that makes sense. It's one of those things where it's like, they don't need to be out and talking about the fact that they're Trans every five sentences. You know, just, you know, every pride month. Being able to be like, hey, I'm so, you know, this is what I went through and this is who I am now. Stuff like that, or being able to every once in a while just going, I'm proud of myself. You don't need to constantly be saying it to one, validate yourself and to have and to validate others because in the end, others, people's validations and other people's emotions aren't on you. Should you 100% make it easier and helpful for other people? Yes. No matter who you are in life, you know, you could be the McDonald's working worker and still, and still that be able to validate someone, but you don't need to. Yeah, basically what I would.

30:41 Yeah, I feel like it's a little different as like someone like me or you who is bisexual because a lot of people will like look at you and be like, my God, you're dating a man. Are you really even bisexual? Or they're like, they'll see you dating a woman and just go, oh my God, this gay person you like. How do you feel about the perspective of that versus what you just mentioned, like the differences? Because I feel like it's still there.

31:16 Yeah. Gender identity and sexuality are two very different things. Me personally, I always feel like I have to be putting on a show to prove my non binary ness, I guess, if that makes sense. Because I like, I like dressing more femme sometimes, you know, what can I say? But you know, I also know people are never gonna. Not never, but people don't really take me seriously when I'm like, hey, my pronouns are actually they, she, they're gonna be like, no, you're wearing a skirt right now. Actually she, her now, you know. And I think that's what I was saying with the trans is just having a post every once in a while and being able to show, you know, one, it normalizes it for everyone else and two, it also helps those kids and those young internalized trans people. However, with sexuality, that one's a little different because it is always. As a bisexual woman, it's a little bit different because like you said, I'm dating a dude right now and I'm all of a sudden I'm not queer anymore. All of a sudden I've been lying about being straight because of this, that or by being bi about this, that. And the third, however, when I did date a girl, it was just the homophobia was even worse than normal for, I mean, obviously. So I'LL say that. And it also comes from the fact where. When people hear you are bisexual, you know, especially. Not especially, but a big portion of when people hear you are bisexual, cishet men who you are talking to romantically, immediately, immediately start talking about, like, threesomes or stuff like that, or you get couples who are doing the same thing. And I feel like a lot of sexualities are only seen in a sexual aspect, especially when you were a girl. And I think I answered your question. Otherwise, I'm gonna.

33:14 No, I know you. I know what you mean. Like, for me, personally, I don't mean to, like, be like, this is about me now, but, like, as a bisexual man, when I am with a man, it's seen as like, oh, my God, this. This guy is with a guy. That's so gross. By, like. By, like the general, like, people who would see in a negative manner versus, like, a lot of people see two girls and they're like, dude, that's so hot.

33:40 Yes, 100%.

33:41 Like, that's. There's a very different view, 100% Sapphic.

33:46 And lesbianism because of porn. I'm gonna be so honest, because the influx of porn and how normalized it is to be watching it. So sorry. It is more normal because of that, but it's not even normal. It's.

34:09 It's.

34:09 Oh, the. God, that's so hot. Can I watch you guys? Give us a kiss. Stuff like that. Whereas, like you said, when it's. When it's a dude with a dude, it's. It's disgusting. It's gross. It's. You know, one of you is definitely the. When you. Definitely the bottom or the twink or stuff like that. You know, it's more and more, as time goes on, people are finding more ways to be less blatant about their homophobia while still also being very disgustingly homophobic. And I think a big portion of that is because of the difference in how people treat lesbians and women who love women versus gay men or men who love, love men.

34:54 Like, I know for us at work especially are not the most tolerant, is the nice way I'm gonna put it. No, like, I'm sure we have had very different experiences on it. I have had numerous interesting comments from our lovely assistant manager. I don't know.

35:18 Yeah, yeah. You don't get it.

35:19 Yeah, you hear all the. Yeah, you don't say more. I got this, like, the way he acts towards me as someone who likes a man verse. I don't even think he really says anything to you about It.

35:35 It's jokes more often.

35:37 Yeah. Notes.

35:38 And I. And I'm out at work. I'm like, I've talked about it at work. It's not like that I'm out. I've talked about it at work. And the most I get is a joke or two or a, oh, my God, that's hot. It's, you know, or stuff like that. Or we can. Or we can like, oh, my God, rate this chick I found. Like. And. And I feel like they forget the fact that I'm also a chick. And I like, if stuff like that, it's definitely such a big shift. And I think it's because of the fact they're all dudes. They are all dudes. And the moment they hear you are a dude who looks a dude, oh, my God, don't try to hit on me. Like, first of all, who's. Never mind. I was gonna be mean. Because they are all dudes. The moment they hear you're a dude who likes to do it, oh, don't hit on me. Don't do this, don't do that, don't do this. And it's when they hear you're a girl who likes a girl. Once again, full of teenage straight dudes. Oh, my God.

36:41 Like, sometimes I don't even think that what they're. They realize that what they're doing is, in a sense, like, homophobic. Like, I think they just see it as, like, the same, like, guy talk of, like, dude, check out this girl I just found on Insta. Like, I don't even think they realize when it comes to your perspective as a woman who likes women, I don't even think, like you said before, just because of the media that's out there and how normalized it is for it to be heavily sexualized. Yeah, it is very weirdly two different ends of a spectrum. When it's women with a woman versus man with a man, 100%.

37:21 They don't re. And I think a big part of it is also social media. Like, I'm a big social media. I think it's a great tool. I think it's wonderful. And it. It's done amazing things for so many people. It's also terrible, and it's detrimental to so many people's mental health and also their social capabilities. And when you see stuff online day after day, time after time, you will forget that. It's not that. That's not just a normal thing to say. Or when you're so used to saying stuff behind a screen, you forget that normally you shouldn't say some of the stuff to people's faces. You know, I should not hear this, that or third about what you, what you were doing last night. Like, I don't need to know this. And it's just like, especially with how they act at work with each other and how it's funny to be gay. It's funny to act gay and to be, you know, it's not gay if you keep your socks on. Stupid jokes like that, it's, it's funny to them. It's a joke. Gay people are the punchline. And I think that is another thing that I don't think they actually realize is harmful and detrimental as well.

38:32 No, that's like a really great point is it's heavily, especially in like teenage dudes to like just be very weirdly touchy feely or say things towards each other that are inherently extremely sexual in nature. And then as soon as a man is even remotely like, they don't even need to act that way towards them. And like, like, that's not a manner. They just say the words, I like men. And all of a sudden they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, verse. I personally, like, how is that, is that a thing with women? Not in that sense.

39:09 Like, are you talking about like if a woman finds out I'm into chicks or.

39:13 Yes, but kind of like, is there that aspect of like the same way it is for guys? Is it like that?

39:22 So more often than, how do I say this in a way that makes sense? More often than not with straight women, the most romantic things you do with them is, and this is coming from personal experience I get women sometimes will be like, oh my God, you're bi, let's kiss. It'll make my, It'll make my boyfriend like me so much more. Or like, it'll, it'll be great for my boyfriend and I. And like that's weird first and foremost. But that's kind of the most, in my personal experience you get with this portrayal of gayness with this using gay people as the punchline. Almost there. I think a lot of times when it comes to that, if a woman does hear you're into women. Most, not most. If, if a CIS het woman does hear you are into woman, they will also pull away and be like, don't hit on me, that's gross. And I think a big thing of that is just the fact that also straight women are very close with their female friends. They're very close with their female friends. You know, I remember growing up, I changed with all my friends, we would, we would talk about anything and everything like no one cared. There were no, There were no such things as boundaries between you and your best friend. And while my best friend was never a straight woman, I've had friends whose friends were straight women. And when they did eventually come out, they. There was an instant shift, instant change in that friendship and in that relationship. Because I think one, they didn't know how to act with each other, both the straight woman to the gay woman and vice versa. It was also that internalized homophobia. 100%.

41:24 No, I think, like, internalized homophobia is. How do I phrase this? I feel like, especially with like internalized homophobia in the workplace, it's very hard to bring it up. Like, how do you feel about the workplace when it comes to that? Like, checking it versus letting it slide? Because there's very much a social aspect of that that's not always talked about. Yeah, like, how do you feel about that?

41:55 I. In the. When I first started working four or so years ago now, I was a lot more vigilant in checking it. And it sucked. I will be so real with you. It sucked. It made my work experience worse. I'm sure it pissed off people who weren't in it. And I think in a perfect world, I guess perfect isn't the right word because if it was perfect, you wouldn't need to check anything. But in a better world, it'd be a lot better to check stuff like that. But now it's just not plausible for it. I'm thinking more fast food retail jobs. It's not plausible. I think if you work in an office job 9 to 5, stuff like that, 100% check it. Like you need to check stuff like that. But if you are working in a retail job, in a fast food job, especially where it's primarily a bunch of teenagers and high schoolers and early college students, there's gonna be no point. The only thing it's gonna do is make your job experience worse. And they're not gonna change. They're not. And it sucks. It's a crappy thing, but it's just how it is.

43:13 No, I know what you mean. It's very hard one to have the change happen. Like in. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the interview for me, but like, in my personal experience, it's when you call it out right away. If you don't call it out right away, there's no point because if you wait, it's just not going to happen because it's been Something that is accepted.

43:36 Yes.

43:37 Negative behavior, even though it is inherently very bad, it is something that they're like. They're cool with it.

43:43 Yes.

43:44 I'm gonna let it rock. And then when you do, even if you try to do something at that point, just at any point in general, what's gonna happen is they're gonna go like, oh, my God, this new person just got this person fired. Or got them in deep trouble. I hate this person. And they're still gonna be here. Like, especially in our work situation. Like, look at how they talk about the Brian thing.

44:04 Yes.

44:05 You mean, like, general manager interacts with this person and then they get fired and they're like this employee man. Like, it's very hard to have these things in. Expressed in a positive manner, or not even a positive. Just in a manner that is done properly and in a way for people to understand.

44:26 Yeah.

44:27 Like, people don't get that what they're doing is bad. So when it's called out as a bad thing, there's just, like, an outright lack of understanding.

44:35 Yeah.

44:36 Like, at the source of it, they're like, what happened that was bad that they even needed to call it out.

44:40 Yeah.

44:40 Which is why it's so important to call that out. But also, like, you need a job 100%. Bills need to get paid.

44:51 Yeah. And it's one of those things where it's a really cynical point of view, and it's a really. I think it's definitely rough.