Cathy Soward and Steffanie Anderson

[00:00] CATHY SOWARD: The little drop down says, oh, here we go. Is it okay if I read yours?

[00:06] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Sure.

[00:07] CATHY SOWARD: Okay. It says hello. Excited for this opportunity. I've been a small business owner almost my entire life. Many types of businesses. Married 39 years. Parent, grandparent, daughter, sister. Interested in learning new things. Love to travel. Me too. Learn about others. Me too. Love history and its impact on our lives. Believe you can accomplish most anything if you have the passion and desire in one form or another. I'm very proud of the life I have led and to be an example of what is possible in this amazing country. That is so nice.

[00:42] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Okay, and I'll read yours. Interests, things I love hiking, travel, reading, knitting. Spending time with our new granddaughter. Please bear with me for a story. My childhood friend Judy was a pretty adamant was pretty adamant I should vote for younger George Bush back in the day because to her he represented a christian viewpoint. I'm also christian, but that was my first personal exposure to people intertwining politics and religion. Instead of answering her question or defending my position, I told her I would always love her since she had found me after we'd lost touch years earlier. We remain close friends and no, we don't agree politically. I'm very, although we don't know, we don't agree politically, I'm very willing to listen and learn even if we don't agree. I lived in Oregon since 1959, married to a great guy for 42 years. Awesome follow follower of Jesus, Democrat and usually vote Dem. Graduated from OSU in forestry and MBA from Portland State. Worked in forestry before having three children, one deceased. Later worked in corporate finance and now retired after some serious health issues. I see the need for universal healthcare. The polarization in the US really concerns me and I would honestly love to listen to your viewpoint and find some common ground. Okay.

[02:20] CATHY SOWARD: Now, my husband, I have been married 45 years because that's how long ago I wrote this.

[02:27] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And now your granddaughter's three years old. Yes.

[02:30] CATHY SOWARD: And we have another one which has a little sister. So they live in northeast Iowa. And so we talked pretty almost every day. And the younger one's not, you know, she's a year and a half. And then we have another daughter that lives in Europe with her husband. So anyway, that's great.

[02:52] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That's great.

[02:53] CATHY SOWARD: So what kind of business do you own or businesses, I should say.

[02:58] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Well, now I own a business, coaching business, and I coach business owners to grow their business. And the first business was a family owned business in Portland, Oregon that was called Babyland Diaper Service. So we served cotton diapers to all of Portland and Eugene and Vancouver area. So that was our first business. And that was many moons ago. Yeah.

[03:25] CATHY SOWARD: Somebody gave us, I think, a gift certificate to a business like that when our first daughter was born, where it mentions, we had. One of our children passed away when, shortly after he was born. He was about two weeks old, so he never got to come home. But our first daughter, we received a gift of diapers for. It seemed like a long time. It was great. So.

[03:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. Very difficult business, but, yes, it was.

[04:01] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. And so now I'm getting little. Do you have little suggested questions under your screen? Yes. Oh. It says, why did you want to do this interview today? Or at all, I guess.

[04:20] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah.

[04:23] CATHY SOWARD: I think it's great.

[04:24] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I think it's. Since, for me, since the pandemic, I just have lost most of my democratic friends, and I don't get the opportunity to talk to people that have differing points of view. So that's what happened. And the great sorting is what I call it.

[04:47] CATHY SOWARD: Actually, that's a good description. Yeah. Yeah. And do you live near Spokane, is that right?

[04:55] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I live in Otis orchards. Yes. It's a suburb of Spokane, so right on the border of Idaho. And we moved here, oh, probably 15 years ago, but most of my life was in my. And my husband was born and raised in Portland, and we lived most of our lives in Vancouver, Washington.

[05:11] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, where did your husband grow up in Portland? Because that's where I grew up, too. Park Rose. That's where I was a little kid. I mean, we moved from there when I was eight, I guess.

[05:22] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Okay.

[05:23] CATHY SOWARD: So into northeast Portland. Well, closer into northeast Portland, so. And lived there till I started college, so. Yeah.

[05:32] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And he lived in Maywood Park. Maywood park, yeah.

[05:34] CATHY SOWARD: My gosh. I know just where that is. That got torn down when they built the I 205 freeway.

[05:41] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Well, no, not his. Not in his neighborhood, but.

[05:44] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, good.

[05:45] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah.

[05:45] CATHY SOWARD: But it was.

[05:46] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Those were beautiful houses. Very nice houses in that neighborhood.

[05:49] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. That is so amazing. We could be so cool.

[05:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah.

[06:00] CATHY SOWARD: Well, so this says, could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values? Like, I'd rather just be friends. Sometimes it's easier to just be friends because it seems like people. People get so twisted around the axle sometimes about, you know, anything. So. But you can, of course, if you would like to describe your personal political values, that's totally fine.

[06:28] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I believe in human flourishing. I just believe that when people are given the choice to make decisions for themselves and their families, they make the right choice for them and their families. That's what I believe and I. And no matter what. No matter what the issue is, I think that people make the right decisions. You know, there's some things that maybe there should be some guidance and there should be some guide rails to help people along.

[06:52] CATHY SOWARD: That makes sense. Makes sense a lot when.

[06:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And I. And I lost a baby before in utero, so I was 27 weeks pregnant, so. Exactly. Not. No, what you went through was way worse, but that gives you a different perspective on lots of things when you go through something like that, that maybe younger people don't understand or know or realize. And, you know, that's. Yeah, that's.

[07:22] CATHY SOWARD: And I can't say. I mean, I can't say anybody's loss is better or worse than anybody else's because it's awful. You know, I'm very sorry for your loss, and it stays with you forever. That's one thing I didn't know at the time.

[07:37] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Right.

[07:38] CATHY SOWARD: I just. Yeah, that's very.

[07:42] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It was our first child as well, so, you know, to move on like you did. You're terrified. Right, with the next two children, especially because you brought or that child lived.

[07:53] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, I. You know, the funny thing was, there was nothing we could have done because of our son had what turned out to be a fatal congenital heart defect. So. No. Cause. No, nothing. No. It was, like, very random and very rare. And so after, you know, we had to get a bunch of medical advice and figure out if we could have more kids and all that kind of stuff. And then after I got pregnant with our daughter, I was very calm. It was. Even now, I think that was obviously the lord to me, because, like you say, it is not a situation where you think anyone would be calm, but I just was. And even when I went in the hospital to have. To have her and I was in labor and this dumb nurse goes, and I normally don't think nurses are dumb at all. It was just this person goes, oh, this whole pregnancy must have just been hell free. It's like, you need to back that up.

[09:00] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And I'm in labor. Don't talk to me.

[09:02] CATHY SOWARD: I'm not at my best right now, especially this particular one. Anyway, everything turned out fine, and she's 37. She's the one that has two little kids. So. Anyway, yeah, it's. It's just people are funny sometimes.

[09:22] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, I know.

[09:23] CATHY SOWARD: And I think.

[09:24] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. They don't realize the impact they have on people, especially somebody in that profession, because they deal with stuff every day.

[09:32] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, that's so true. And they could tell stories and, you know. And anyway, everything turned out fine. I.

[09:43] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: So, yes, just as it should. Yes. And I. And ours had a defect as well, and I have a different perspective on. I don't know, that just kind of really made me callous towards the. I mean, I really appreciated everything they did for us and all the testing. They did the genetic testing to make sure it wouldn't happen again, but they said that child would not. Was not viable, and so we chose to. At 27 weeks.

[10:10] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, my.

[10:13] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Then I was later not able to get pregnant, and I read a book, and the woman had the same chromosomal defect as that child, and she lived, and she didn't even know she had it. And for me, that just rocked my world, because I was like, what? These children can live and have normal lives.

[10:31] CATHY SOWARD: And so that was.

[10:33] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That was tragic.

[10:34] CATHY SOWARD: That was very sad. I.

[10:35] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And we. Very young, but it's the same thing. It worked out great because, you know, our kids are 15 months apart, and if we had a child that had really difficult. A difficult situation, that would have been hard on us because we were married at 20 and 21 and I was pregnant, I would have that baby when I was 21. So I can imagine how that we. We might not have stayed married if there were a lot, you know, just because. Yeah, when those situations come up, it's. There's a lot of difficulty in the relationship and. Yeah, I can see. Yeah, I can see God's hand in it, too.

[11:14] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Do you have other children?

[11:17] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. So we have a daughter who's, um, she's 36, and we have a son who's 35, and our daughter has two little girls, and they live in California, and they were just here. We take them in this. We take them, like, usually three weeks a year. We take them. So we just had them last week, so we're still trying to pick up. I totally get that.

[11:41] CATHY SOWARD: This is why people have kids with their yellow on you. Every time I put their grandkids, I'm like, I did this.

[11:47] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I don't know how I know. It was just exhausting. And it was. When it was. It really was hot here. It was over 100 every day. Luckily, we have a swimming pool, but I was just like, I can't take it anymore.

[12:00] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, yeah, it was, yeah, well, yes, I'm sure it was wonderful and exhausting all at the same time.

[12:08] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And I think that my aunt always had the three day rule, you know, you should never say, what if a fish would go rotten in the fridge? That's how long you should stay. And it's really a good rule of thud you look forward to them coming, and then they come, and then you look forward to them leaving, and then you look forward to coming again.

[12:23] CATHY SOWARD: Yep. Yeah.

[12:25] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. We were.

[12:27] CATHY SOWARD: We were back in Iowa. Gosh, it's been a month ago, I guess, and we stayed for about ten days. And it was all good, you know, and it's, you know, well, the weather is different where you are compared to me, but the weather back there is different from both of us. And it was hot and humid, and it was when they're having all kinds of flooding and stuff, but not where we were. And I was getting checks from my friends, like, are you okay? It's like, yes, I'm fine. You know, that's a big state, you know, but it was just, you know, it's like that kind of humid where you're like, oh, my gosh. And my daughter kind of wants us to move there. And my husband goes, there's only two things I don't like about Iowa, summer and winter. We can't do anything about those. You know? It's just.

[13:22] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Very nice of her.

[13:23] CATHY SOWARD: It is. It's very nice for. And it's a cute little town. I mean, it's all good except for things you can't do anything. So anyway, I love that.

[13:36] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I love that it's cute. And we winter in Florida, and same thing. I can't hardly. I can't hardly take it there. I just don't like that much sunshine. And it's warm all the time, and it gets humid. Same thing. It's kind of like, oh, God, this is terrible. And you know, what a silly thing to complain about. These are my problems. They're silly.

[13:57] CATHY SOWARD: Well, and my friend Judy that I mentioned in the bio, she, after, well, she lost her husband. Gosh, it's been about ten years ago, but when she retired, their dream had always been to sell their house up near Seattle and retire near Phoenix. So she went ahead and did that, bought a house. And so I went down and visited her in the spring, like February, where it's very not great weather here. And it was just great, you know? And she had me halfway convinced to move down there. And then I got home, and I was like, hang on. You know, it's like, 115 for the whole summer. She didn't even stay there. She goes, she and a friend have this deal where they each have a bedroom in each other's house. So she's up in Seattle again now. So that's great. It works. Yeah. But I just thought, you know, it's. It's like summer camp for adults where she lives. It's just very fun. But anyway, and that's.

[14:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And we have lots of air. We have 14 Airbnb. So, you know, like those rent, the short term rentals in Florida. So in the winter, we go there really busy and we manage them. But my husband keeps saying we should move into one of those places because there's all these places that are like a summer camp, like you said, where you just, you know, hang out with your friends and go to the pool and play pickleball and, like, no, I think that's social. No, I don't want that.

[15:24] CATHY SOWARD: I think maybe that's why when I got home, I thought, I kind of like this room right here. It's lots of sewing and knitting and stuff like that. And I love doing that kind of stuff because I never had time to do that when I was working. And so. And, you know, I went, of course, I did everything with my friend, and I got home and I was just like, it's a good.

[15:51] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It's a good visit, and then get back to, you know, your reality and maybe have some time to yourself, because that's how I am in my. I'm just. I may be more introverted than I am extroverted, so I have to be extroverted for most of my business, and I would just like to kind of be by myself. We live on 60 acres, so I have nobody nice. I have a gate so nobody can come to my door and knock on my door. And I like it, but my trees and my husband's like, I know what's going to happen. You're just going to become, like, this little tiny, you know, whatever. I'm going to migrate. I'm not migrant, but just, you're going to stay in the house all the time, and you're going to hide away. And I'm like, well, I might.

[16:31] CATHY SOWARD: It's very attractive. You know, the whole. Everything you just mentioned is like, yeah, yeah, why wouldn't we? We just live on a lot, kind of on the edge of town, but it's in the middle of trees, too. And, I mean, I'm looking out like this, and it's just like, it's just restorative or something. I guess I just.

[16:54] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Absolutely.

[16:55] CATHY SOWARD: It's very nice.

[16:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It is.

[16:57] CATHY SOWARD: If you're right near the Idaho border, it must be gorgeous where you live.

[17:02] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I think it is that we have trees and we have mountains, and that's what I like to look at is, you know, the. The very terrain. Of course, it's all kind of dead right now because there's lots of wheat fields and things. But I love it. And in Florida, it's green, but there is not a hill anywhere, so it's kind of hard to take that. Here's an example. I was training to run a ten k back here, I think, in April. And so in Florida, and it's kind of hilly. It's around this lake in Florida. I had to run over this bridge constantly because that was the only elevation and it was only a few feet, maybe 15, and I was not ready.

[17:37] CATHY SOWARD: For all the hills.

[17:38] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And it was just like, terrible.

[17:42] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, yeah. When our daughter, who lives in the midwest, also went to college in Midwest. So when we drove back there for a college graduation, our other daughter came, which was really nice. And she looks around, you know, this is the pretty part of Iowa where she lives, and she looks around and she goes, you could watch your dog run away for three days here. I mean, maybe, but let's not talk about that. Okay.

[18:12] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, that's true, though. Yeah.

[18:16] CATHY SOWARD: Which is kind of. I mean, and then who was just telling me they met somebody anyway, they met some people on their vacation. They were at the beach and met some people from Denmark or something who were like, the US is so big. Like, yeah. You know, and they were. I think I forget Denmark is like half the size of Oregon or something. It's, of course, much smaller. And, I mean, you can go on vacations in the US for your whole life and not see the whole thing, which is kind of fun. And then. And if you find someplace you don't like, which I haven't yet. Oh, yeah, I did find one anyway.

[18:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Iowa?

[18:58] CATHY SOWARD: No. Well, so we went, oh, this was so nice of my daughter. Again, she goes. She invites us to go on to a family reunion thing with her husband's family, who we like very much. And so we did. We're up on Lake Superior, and it's just, I have to say, not as pretty as here or probably where you are. And the kids were wild. I mean, not. It was. And. And then, you know, with the whole peace and quiet is nice kind of thing, which we've talked about, I was like, I don't have to come back here. It was too much.

[19:36] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah.

[19:37] CATHY SOWARD: But, yeah, I. I get it. Yeah.

[19:40] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: So what projects are you working on now for your crafting?

[19:44] CATHY SOWARD: I am. What do I have? Well, I have a bunch of fabric over there. I have some clothes I'm going to make. Plus, I'm knitting. This is actually difficult for me, knitting shawl. That's made out of pink silk, but the silk is so fine. It's lacy. It's like string. And when I. I bet I restarted it ten times. And it also had beads on it, which sounds hard, but beads are super easy, I discovered. And so now I've done enough of it that you can tell. Oh, yeah. It's going to be okay after it gets blocked. And this other friend of mine who knits goes, she's so funny. What she say? He goes, oh, yeah, silken lace. It just looks like seaweed until you're done. Don't worry. So I thought, okay, I'll just keep plugging along. So I do that in the evenings when we're watching tv or something. We've been watching the Olympics off and on in the evening, so it's very fun to see. Yeah. I mean, that people can run or jump or whatever they're doing, like they do. It's just amazing.

[20:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yes, it is. It's pretty amazing.

[20:59] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Very fun.

[21:03] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I don't do that much. I mean, I do. I crocheted, like, all the babies. I also have a grandson in Seattle. My son has a son, one little baby. So I've met. Made them all blankets or whatever, those really soft baby ones, but I don't really keep up because it's like. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. So, I mean, I would love to knit clothes and make a. That's just too much work, and I'm sure it would look awful. So I never.

[21:33] CATHY SOWARD: Well, you start with something easy, like a scarf. And then one time, one of our daughters knits, the one in Iowa, and she calls me up one day when she's in college, she goes, I've made a mistake. I'm mailing this back to you. Please fix it and mail it right back because I got to give it to my roommate for Christmas. Like, no, I am not doing that. And there's a knit shop right in your town. You go in there and make friends with those little ladies, they will love you forever. And so she did, and everything was fine.

[22:05] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That's great advice. I know, but that's a good point, because I think about this a lot, because I think that we raise our kids to be really good adults, but it kind of sucks because they don't. They're not dysfunctional, so they really don't need us. I kind of wish I would have screwed them up a little bit of. They live in a basement, you know.

[22:24] CATHY SOWARD: I mean, but it's kind of. Well, so the same daughter, I think, the one that lives in. She lives in Switzerland. She and her husband, she. They are a lot. I think, as they live so far away, they're kind of like, we gotta figure this out, whatever it is, you know, no matter what. Whereas our daughter in Iowa, she's on the phone every day like, mom, what about. So they just bought a cardinal. And she sends me all the stuff, all the papers, and she goes, could you look at this? And so I'm looking, you know, and then she calls up. She's an occupational therapist. So when she's driving to someone's house, she'll call whoever, you know, me or whoever she wants. So. So we discussed the whole thing. It all worked out. But she's 37, you know, and she's like, mom, what do you think? It's like? Well, of course I have opinions, but you have to decide, you know?

[23:16] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And you already pulled the trigger, so what do you want me to do?

[23:20] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, she was interesting. So I think there's one car dealership in this little town they live. And so the guy was telling him that the day before they bought their car, somebody came in. And this is just outside of my personal experience. So it was remarkable. Wrote him a check for $112,000 for a brand new. Whatever costs that much money. Something brand new. Yeah. And I thought, that's a chunk of change for a vehicle, you know, but somebody wanted it, and they had the money, and away they went. So it was kind of an ooh ah moment for everyone there.

[23:59] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, I bet that's. Yeah. Just in the little town and. Yeah. You don't realize people have that much money sitting around.

[24:06] CATHY SOWARD: What I thought. And they most liked the summers and the winters. Cause they lived there, so. And they have very nice car now.

[24:20] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. She needs it for her job, your daughter does.

[24:24] CATHY SOWARD: Because she has to drive around in.

[24:25] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Her car, so she might as well have a nice car.

[24:27] CATHY SOWARD: Well, she doesn't have. That's not her. That's somebody else that walked in.

[24:30] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: No, she got a new car.

[24:31] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, they got a. I forget. Some all wheel drive something. So now they both have all wheel drive, so now they're happy.

[24:39] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That makes sense. Yeah, I know. Moving to here from Portland, it was like I had a little vw bug and that I had to drive. I left it there for some crazy reason. Oh. Because we were moving. Driving moving vans over here. So then I went back to Vancouver. We lived in Camus at that time. And then I had to drive my vw back in like January. It was terrible weather. We lived on a huge hill. I barely made it uphill. I don't even know how I did it because I was just like, there's so much snow. I don't know how I'm gonna. I'm just gonna go as fast as I can, get up that hill and then sold that car immediately and got a four wheel drive.

[25:12] CATHY SOWARD: Well, you probably get a fair amount of snow every year where you are. Is that fair to say?

[25:19] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, off and on. But the year that we moved here was the year they had the most snow they've had in 50 years. So it was insane because my husband had never lived. I was born here and I lived here until I was in, like, the fifth grade. And then we moved to Vancouver. But he said, I bought a snow shovel and then I bought another snow shovel. Then I had to buy a snowblower and that we just had a little driveway at that time. But it was funny because he was just shocked because overnight one time we got 4ft or 2ft of snow, which was insane.

[25:51] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, my gosh. But it has.

[25:52] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It's not like that every year. Just, you know, a few big snowstorms. Like, we came back in February because we had our granddaughters and we had enough snow that we could. They could sled and we could build snowmen and all that fun stuff because they live in California and don't have. I mean, they live in. They live in northern California, so it gets cold there, but they don't have snow. So that was fun to do that.

[26:16] CATHY SOWARD: That's cool. Yeah. I was visiting our same daughter one time and I woke up in the morning and thought. And it was. I knew there was a bunch of snow on the ground and I heard a lawnmower. I thought. And I was like, nobody. And I'm laying in bed going, nobody is mowing their lawn. What is going on? Maybe I'm still dreaming, you know. But it was a snow blower and we just don't have those here because it only rains. It very rarely snows. And I just thought, oh, I've never heard this ever in my whole life. So who knew nobody was mowing their lawn? Is your daughter that lives in California affected by the fires in California?

[26:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Not too. Not too bad. They went on a camping trip and they had some difficulty there because there was a lot of smoke, I guess, our daughter. So she married a man in the air force because we have an air force base here in Spokane and she went to Whitworth. Which is in Spokane. She moved over here before we did, but. So she moved a lot, and.

[27:22] CATHY SOWARD: Her.

[27:23] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Husband decided that he didn't want to be married anymore two years ago in the summer. So she came and moved in with us for a month, and that really hurt our relationship. I mean, we were trying to do the right thing, I think, but I was just kind of like, after a month, I was tired that she was driving my car all the time. I wanted my car back, and I said, I need you to drive home or fly home and get your car and drive it back so you can have your car. And that kind of got her going, like, oh, maybe I should try to work this out. So anyways, they worked it out. So now they just had their 9th anniversary, which is wonderful, but it kind of, it really hurt our relationship that we allowed her to do that. And I have a very practical friend from Minnesota who said, when that happened to me, and I went home to my mom crying, saying, I just didn't want to, I wanted to separate from my husband, she said, well, you should. You could do that, but you need to figure out what to do because you cannot come here and we will not help you. And I was like, that's probably. I wouldn't have said it like that, but I should have maybe handled it that way. But she had two little babies. And anyways, I'm grateful that they've celebrated their 9th anniversary and that he moved back in because he filed for a divorce. And then he went to Qatar for six months. Just got, came back in April, and he decided he wanted to reconcile and move back in, thankfully, because in California, you have a six month waiting period if you're going to file for divorce. They make you wait six months. And so he did that while he was in Qatar. And so I'm grateful that it all worked out good.

[28:58] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, that sounds very rough.

[29:02] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And for her to have to spend six months with just her kids and, you know, that would be so hard, all the things she had to deal with. And, you know, we visited her, and she came to Florida to visit us during Christmas because it, you know, very lonely. Yes. I'm so grateful. And, you know, we, I was always really practical with my kids, and I said, I don't want you, I want you to marry somebody from a similar background that comes from an intact family, because that's what success means. And both of our kids married people from divorced families, and it's just like, it's been difficult for them because.

[29:41] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, well, yeah, I, with our daughter that lives in Switzerland. This is gonna sound terrible, but we prayed for her husband since our daughter was like two, because we thought, I don't know who this person's gonna be, but they need prayer now.

[30:01] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I love it.

[30:03] CATHY SOWARD: And he's the nicest man, and he's.

[30:07] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: He's.

[30:08] CATHY SOWARD: So our sons in laws are similar in that they're both kind, impatient, but other than that, they're quite different. But he's the nicest man. And she had. So, this is so weird. In back in February or March, they had. Or last fall, anyway, they had been here, and they got home, and he noticed that her. So when my. When that daughter smiles, she's like this. You can't see her eyes at all. And he noticed that her pupils were two different sizes. And he goes, yeah. And he goes, are you. How are you? Kind of thing? And she goes, I have kind of a headache. Anyway. So he convinced her they should go to the emergency room. And she had. I can't even hardly. I know the words, but it took me a while to kind of absorb them. Bilateral carotid dissection, which is. I didn't know this, but your artery walls are three layers, and two of them had separated from one of them. And we're like. Like, doing, like, I can't even do it. Like, going into the artery like this. So then, yeah, I don't know how she was walking and talking. So then the body thinking, oh, I'm going to try and help her human body started forming clots right there. And fortunately, for some reason, that's what made her pupils different. The hospital and wherever they were in Switzerland, near where they live, figured it right out, and they just said, well, we have to give you all these blood thinners and put you in the hospital and all this. And she's okay. And I was just like, oh, my gosh. His name is Dave. Her husband. It's like, dave, you're my new favorite person on the planet, you know, because he somehow saw this in her eyes where I hardly ever I could. I mean, I know what color her eyes are, but they're just the way her face is. You don't see him very much. And he goes, well, yeah, you know, I look at her a lot. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just. Yeah, I'm so. I'm very grateful for him, but, yes, he's. Hedgesthem. His. His parents. I never thought about that. Which sounds crazy, but his parents are married. Our other daughter's parents in laws are married, and her in laws are a former priest and a. Like, someone who was never going to get married, the lady. And they're very. They're wonderful, you know, and I just. You never know who's you're gonna get. I guess they're all wonderful. Just.

[33:03] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah. And I just would love to have, like, a podcast or something talking about those types of things, because I just guess I'm practical because it. I met my husband when I was 19, and I was like, okay, this is what I want. This is what I'm looking for. I can't find it anywhere. I meet this guy driving down the freeway, and he's the guy because he's got all those things I wanted, so.

[33:30] CATHY SOWARD: I knew, but it's like, that is great. And he knew you were the one, too. Yeah. Oh, that's so great. That's.

[33:41] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: He thought I was cute. I mean, you know, men don't think. He's like, I don't think about that stuff. But I think, you know, I want somebody that's the same religion as me, that has an intact family, that, you know, that his family is the same size as my family of origin. And just like, I want all these things. I want somebody that's goal driven. He's going directions, and he was definitely going directions. So it's like, this is it. Perfect.

[34:02] CATHY SOWARD: That is very, very cool. My husband's family is also in tech. His parents have passed away, and I am surprised they didn't warn him off me because mine was not, and not even close. And I have one brother who's younger, who's very mentally ill and was. And my poor parents, they've said, they'd said when they were still living that not knowing what to do or what to do next or how to help my brother was one of the things that contributed to the breakup of their marriage. And I was like, yeah, that must have been. I can't even imagine. In fact, we were last weekend, weekend before last over. He lives in northeast Oregon, an enterprise, like straight, probably straight south of you guys. And he lives in a wonderful group home. He'll always need to be in a supported structural kind of thing, but that's hard. And. And my husband's parents were like, oh, your brother probably just needs someone to be kind to him. Like, no, no. It was just beyond their experience. Nothing against them at all. It was just, you know, I think.

[35:16] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It was a lot more difficult, don't you think, to deal with mental health. Because I had a brother that is often on living on the streets, and I just. I just don't think that we, our parents, seek advice. Well, or look for somebody to help them or. I don't know, because, yeah, I wish that they would have institutionalized my brother when they were younger, when they had control, because then it just became same thing, just like this, you know, you're driving around on the streets looking for him. Is he dead? Where is he? Where's he living now? You know, and it's so, so hard on them.

[35:49] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, it's just wrenching. I mean, I just can't. I can't imagine if it was, you know, like, one of our kids or one of our grandkids, if that happened to them. I can't even imagine.

[36:00] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Or targeted. Where you over there?

[36:02] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. My brother has taken everything. He broke with another friend. They somehow came with up with the idea, let's break into a vet's office and take everything we can find. And it's like he lived, you know, he's like, how do you live? My mom goes, this was kind of funny. She goes, he's probably gonna outlive us all. It's like, he's getting there, you know, it's just me now and hime, so she's probably right.

[36:30] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I know, because I always felt like my brother was going to die really young, and he's, like, 16 months older than me, so he's 61. And I don't know, it's crazy that.

[36:42] CATHY SOWARD: He'S around, but, yeah, that's what I thought, too. In fact, after my mom said that and after she and my dad had passed away, I thought, I better make funeral arrangements, because she could be right. And then what? You know? So I got all that stuff done for him, and so I told the people that run the place where he lives, like, this is what my mom said. And they were like, yeah, that happens. Okay. But they're very kind with. Along with having a spine, so, anyway, it's a good place where he lives.

[37:20] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That's great.

[37:21] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Yeah.

[37:23] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: So this is. I just want to say this because I think it's kind of funny that when I did this, it didn't seem like it was like, you can talk. You don't have to talk about politics, but the first thing they want you to do is talk about politics. I don't understand it. It's like, why?

[37:37] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, that's a good conversation. Yeah, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that because most of the. Well, in. In everyday life, when you meet someone, that's not usually the first thing nobody talks about. Although I have to say we've been so in my job that I'm retired from. I traveled a lot for work. And any, I mean, anytime I was in Europe for work or fun, people would say so. And, and it was a question, a political question. Like I thought, well, you guys are really up on stuff like, well, yeah, you know, and for them, people in Europe, except in Switzerland, everyone is so reserved. They're not rude. They're just so reserved. They would never think of even asking a question. And our daughter over there goes, mom, when you come to visit, you can't just start talking to people like you do here. I was like, what do you mean? You know? Anyway, and she's right. They're just so reserved. So except for there other places, people, first question. And it's like, wow, this is, well.

[38:54] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And I find this very interesting because whenever, like, we go on, I don't know, we've been on a few cruises and the BBC, all they talk is about is America. And I'm like, the rest of the.

[39:04] CATHY SOWARD: World is interesting, too.

[39:05] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Why do you talk about our politics all the time? That's why they're up on it. And I love it when you talk to people from other countries because they're just like you guys, you work so hard, you work all the time. I'm like, we kind of do, but we enjoy what we do. Normally, I don't know, it's just different because we don't have weeks or twelve weeks of vacation like they do.

[39:24] CATHY SOWARD: No kidding.

[39:25] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love talking to people in other countries. I just think it's fascinating because it's just so different and, and I think that's so wonderful you were able to travel for your job.

[39:37] CATHY SOWARD: That's really cool.

[39:38] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Really.

[39:39] CATHY SOWARD: Meeting people all over the place was the best part of my job because otherwise it was kind of stressful. I worked in, although not compared to probably many other occupations, but I worked in finance for HP for a long time. Oh, you didn't. Yeah, it was. But meeting people from other places was so, so fun. I just loved him. And especially the people from Ireland are so funny. They're just, and my, and maybe I kind of resonated with them because my mom's family all came to Canada from Ireland. And, like, we got back from somewhere and I got back to work and this guy from Ireland calling me up right away and he's like, where have you been? It's like, well, I was on vacation for a week. You know, he goes, well, why did you leave for a week? It was like, well, it was our anniversary. And he goes, well, what anniversary? He's just like, you know. And I said, well, it was our 30th at that point. And there's this long silence on the phone, and he goes, that's more than people get for murder.

[40:45] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That is a very good sense of humor.

[40:48] CATHY SOWARD: It was. And, you know, you just laugh all the time. When he first called up that time, he goes, guess who this is? And all I could tell is an irish man. So I just named a common irish name, and it was his. I didn't know who of the, whoever, whatever the name was. And you know which one? He goes, yeah, how'd you know? It's like, because you just told me, you know. But anyway, so meeting all the meeting people is very fun around the world, except for.

[41:16] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Except for the Russians, because I'm very curious about the Russians that I. But I tried to strike up conversation one time. We were, we were on a cruise out of Italy, and it was an italian cruise line. Unfortunately, that was a bad idea. I should have caught an american cruise line. But anyways, they, the Russians were just like, get away from me. You are weird. Don't talk to me. But I just was, I'm just really interested in them. But they just, I never made any comments.

[41:39] CATHY SOWARD: Were they other guests on the same ship? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Normally everybody on a cruise is like, yeah, we're on vacation. Let's just chat, you know. Oh, that's too bad. My husband and I were, there's some cruise that we didn't take because now this particular one doesn't exist, where you go to St. Petersburg. Like, you go by Scandinavia and go to St. Petersburg. We thought, oh, that would be so cool. Now we think, oh, we should have done that because who knows?

[42:13] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I think maybe in two years we'll do, my husband wants to do the Eurorail. And hopefully.

[42:18] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, yeah, we could hope. We'll see.

[42:21] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: This will be a joke because, you know, I go on vacation, I pack a million things, and he's like, can you pack in a backpack? You think, oh, sure. But it would be fun. And we'll see. We'll see how old and decrepit we are when we finally take that trip. But we, this year in January, we went to the Antarctica from, we flew into. That was a really cool trip. It was really neat.

[42:47] CATHY SOWARD: So then do you take a ship from Argentina, did you say, and go to Antarctica? And was the sailing rough?

[42:55] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Because we. Drake passage was very rough. But it was, but it was in the middle of the night and we were on the very back of the ship. And, I mean, I slept great, but I felt like I was going to fall out of bed at any moment because it was just really rocking and rolling, but it was just. You just never see stuff like that. And Argentina was really interesting. I didn't know what to expect, and I enjoyed it.

[43:14] CATHY SOWARD: So, anyways, yeah, that'd be very cool. How long did you get to spend in Antarctica?

[43:20] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: We just spent two days, but we don't. We couldn't get off the ship. So it's kind of like an alaskan cruise, where you can cruise around and look at everything. But the best part was they had historian speakers every morning to talk about Magellan, the crew that traveled there in a wooden boat. It was just unbelievable. So I really enjoyed it. But then we were supposed to go to the Falkland Islands, and I. We weren't able to go for some reason. So then we had a protest on our boat, which was very interesting. A protest? Yes.

[43:53] CATHY SOWARD: You mean the passengers protested. What were they protesting?

[43:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Because they wanted to go to Falkland Islands because they believed that the. The italian captain was doing it on purpose because other ships had gone there. And Argentinians cannot go to the Falkland islands because of the war.

[44:13] CATHY SOWARD: Right.

[44:14] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Go visit their family and then visit the graves of people that had died there. So it. But it was just, you know, a thousand people in the main part of the ship just having a huge protest.

[44:26] CATHY SOWARD: Wow.

[44:28] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: People much. Other countries are much more emotional than we are. We are pretty reserved because I just watched people. I loved it. I mean, I didn't love that part, but I loved it because you could talk to everybody else about it, every, you know, different country, and they give you their impression of what happened.

[44:42] CATHY SOWARD: And.

[44:42] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I don't know, I thought that was very interesting.

[44:43] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah. When we were. Now I'm trying to think. Anyway, it was a long time ago. We were over in Italy, and I told my husband, a, everyone here is beautiful, and b, they're worked up. Oh, we just got a little message. Oh, my gosh. But. So anyway, it's another fun thing, you know? Very fun. Well, I can't believe we only have five minutes left. Well, this has been really wonderful, Steffanie Right. I forgot to ask. Make sure. Yeah, this has been really wonderful.

[45:27] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And know that we're the total opposite on everything. I mean, we're christians, so we're ahead, we're civilized, correct?

[45:34] CATHY SOWARD: I sure hope so. Yes.

[45:39] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Well, it was hard. It was hard for me to find a conservative church. I had to. We have to go to church in Idaho because I couldn't find one here that was conservative enough. So anyways, that's. What type of church do you go to?

[45:51] CATHY SOWARD: We go to. It's. So I have to say, I've gone to this church for 35 years, and it used to be associated with conservative Baptist association of America, but I don't know if it still is, and. Which sounds like I should know that about the church I attend. But anyway, it's called a community church now, northwest Hills community church. But I would say it's mostly baptist, mostly conservative, but I'm not sure that it's still the same association is what I'm getting at. So. Yeah, very. We have a young ish pastor. He's probably 38 or something. He's really, really good. I thought he navigated the pandemic as best as a human being could, you know, and because that was rough, and the church has some properties, so sometimes we had outdoor services in the summer. It was great until the neighbors complain, and it was not so great. Anyway, it's good. How about you?

[47:01] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: We moved, so we're like a four square church. The churches here are mostly very small, but we attend a very large church. But during the pandemic, we moved from a church in Washington because I refused to wear a mask. And so we go to a church, Idaho, where they never made us masked and they never closed down. And a lot of churches, you know, had to close down. And so we decided it was just like, it was time to venture there. Lots of young families, people. I mean, I don't know, there's probably 14 people a week being baptized. So I'm. I'm so encouraged because I just see people coming to their faith, and that's just wonderful because we need to, because it's going to be scary times ahead. So I just am really happy to.

[47:43] CATHY SOWARD: Know that, yeah, there's a lot of young families in our church, too, and they. There was. I mean, I can't remember how long, but for some period of time, and it was a while, we had video, like this church, you know, so I would just sit my bathroom open and knit, and hopefully they can't see me. I know. So it's like. So it was a little bit hard to go back to church.

[48:09] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I know, I.

[48:11] CATHY SOWARD: But it was, you know, it's good. It's better to be in person, so.

[48:15] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Exactly. I know. And I was just telling my husband yesterday when we were on our way, because we were late, because he doesn't like all the singing. He hates all the singing. And I said, you know, it's the reason we do this is because we need to comply to something larger than ourselves. And he was just over there snickering at me, like, oh, I know. We need to be. Have to have authority over us, which. Yeah. Yes. That's what it is.

[48:38] CATHY SOWARD: Well, tell your husband that I also don't enjoy the music at our church.

[48:44] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: At a baptist church. No.

[48:46] CATHY SOWARD: Only because it's. I'm sure it's fine. The thing that happened to me a few years, eight years ago, I had a brain aneurysm, and so I'm mostly fine, but noise gets me, and so people want to sing loud, praise loud, all this stuff, and I'm like, shut up. You know, I just can't take it. So I don't say that in church, but. So we've got this. Our current strategy is we only live, like, a five minute drive from the church. So we leave, like, right after the service starts, so we hopefully get there when the music is ending. So I feel for your husband. It may be a different reason, but I get it.

[49:28] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yes. Well, I'm glad that you're doing well after having an aneurysm. That is terrifying.

[49:34] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, it was bad, but it turned out good. I mean, I got. So I had to have surgery in Portland, and all these people came in, like, in the middle of the night, and I said, wait, we have to pray before you start because you guys all worked all day, and now you have to come and take care of me. And one of the nurses squeezed my hand when I said that. It's like, ah, so they did a good job.

[50:06] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That's wonderful.

[50:08] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah.

[50:08] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And that's why you believe that. Can you still talk or no? Yeah, because I'm. Because, yes, I. You know, I'm curious about. That's. What. Why you believe in the universal healthcare? You think that would be better.

[50:21] CATHY SOWARD: Exactly. Yeah. Well, I'll give you my very tiny speech. So that was in 2016. And when I got home, it took a couple years to recover. But anyway, there was a. That was a 2016 election, and so there was in Corvallis, where we live, there was also an advisory poll on should, you know, should everyone have access to healthcare. So there was a little door thing on my door, and I read it, and I was like, I know I'm not comprehending things as well as I used to. So it said something about universal healthcare. So I looked it up. I was like, oh, my gosh, yes. Because I had. Because I worked in finance, downloaded all my bills at one point, just for the heck of it, and we had insurance, so I didn't have to worry about that. But it was eight years ago, it was $350,000. And I was like, well, I did brief, this happened when I was at work, a very sudden, you know, like they say, if you get a sudden terrible headache, pay attention. And that's what happened. And I briefly thought, I'm just going to go home and take a nap and then I'll be fine. Well, I wouldn't have woken up. And then they, I was telling all these doctors important, who all look twelve, by the way, and they're just, and they're good, you know, and then I, or I, or you have to declare bankruptcy or you're in debt for the rest of your life, even if you live. So I volunteer with a group that's advocating for that in Oregon for universal health care. And actually, Oregon, the legislature passed a bill that looks like assuming the current task force comes up with a plan is going to go to the voters in two or three years. So it's like, I'm cautiously optimistic, but it really depends on what they come up with because it's a big, big, big deal. So, and I'm a Medicare, so that's universal health care for older people. And it's great. It's like I rarely have to pay for anything these days. But I, it also doesn't cover everything. So that's all. Nothing. But, yes, that's why, that's how I just never, I'd always had insurance from some employer forever, good or bad, and not from HP because they didn't have very good insurance. So we had it through, my husband worked for the state at that time, had fabulous insurance. And if you lived in Oregon, I would say, thank you, all taxpayers, because that's, you know, that's where it comes from. But anyway, yes, that is how I got interested in that.

[53:04] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And so I just, to tell you a little story myself, I had, I found out I had cancer in 2019. I had an accounting and bookkeeping business and I just sold that. And, you know, you just, when you're, when you have, when you're working a lot. I had my own business. I just didn't pay attention to stuff. And so I just decided I had, I should go in. I kept having these pains in my uterus. And so I had an ultrasound in 2019. At the end, I sold my business in like October. And then by Christmas I had this ultrasound, which then they told me in January there's something wrong. Well, I decided to go on a month vacation because I was celebrating selling my business. So we went out of the country for a month and then, you know, had to get back in quick because we thought for sure the country was going to be closed down. So then I started kind of pursuing this, and I didn't. I didn't know. They said I had these tumors. They're large in size. But you know what? You can wait this month. Well, then. And we didn't have health insurance. We had the christian health insurance because, I mean, our insurance, because we're self employed went from just a few hundred dollars a month. And when we had businesses with employees, we always had health insurance for them prior to the health insurance. And what was it called? Whatever the thing was, they passed 16 or 17.

[54:30] CATHY SOWARD: You mean the Obamacare thing?

[54:32] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, Obamacare, yeah. So then we couldn't afford insurance. I mean, it was like $1,700 a month for two people. And so I didn't have insurance. So I knew I had to have a total hysterectomy and had to have an MRI to make sure, you know, where was the blood source and those types of things. But here's the thing. I could call the Ob GYN and she would give me a quote for her bill. And then I could call the anesthesiologist. He would give me a quote for his bill. The hospital, and it was going to be a three day hospital stay. They were like, well, it's going to be. They wouldn't give me an answer at all. They're like, it could be 15,000. It could 50,000. I'm like this. If you were a business, you would go out of business. That's my opinion about. Sorry about everything to do with the government. If they put their hands on it, it's going to be a disaster. So it was insane. I was like, I can't pay that. You can't. You can't keep me. You can't do this to me. It didn't, you know, with COVID and everything ended up being just outpatient, which.

[55:28] CATHY SOWARD: Was terrible, too, because you had hysterectomy as an. An outpatient. Oh, my goodness. Are you okay now? Yeah.

[55:36] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And I, and I just did all the. I didn't do any of any other treatment. I just did natural stuff because I just felt like it was a big. I don't know, I didn't understand it because I go to the oncologist. When they finally, I mean, took a month, they lost my. They lost everything. They said, do you have cancer? Well, what kind? Oh, we don't really know, because we only got one page of this report from USCLA. I understand they were busy at that time doing other things, but I mean, it took me eight weeks to go see the doctor for them to actually fight, figure out what kind of cancer I had. You know you're kind of stressed out when you.

[56:08] CATHY SOWARD: No kidding. Oh, my God, the whole thing is terrible.

[56:11] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I mean, yeah, my husband has to drop me off in the morning and then pick me up in the afternoon. I'm like, I'm sure they told me a ton of stuff. I have no idea. And, you know, they went in through my abdomen, which that, that was, that should not be outpatient anyways.

[56:28] CATHY SOWARD: No, I just was so sorry. I. I don't know how you could walk out of the hospital, to be honest. You must be very fit or something. I mean, I'm glad you're wheelchair.

[56:43] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And we were remodeling our house at the time, which, you know, I was like, I, and I told my husband I should just go sit in a hotel. I should have because they're pounding all damn day long and, you know, asking me questions at the bedroom door and I'm like, I just want to disappear.

[56:59] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, my God.

[57:00] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: But anyways, that's. I just don't. I'm sure there's a way we could handle this. I believe in privatization of everything because I just don't think our. I'm sorry, our government doesn't handle anything properly. They make a mess of it. They make. It cost so much more. And how many drugs would we not be on if somebody else wasn't paying the bill?

[57:21] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, pharmacy is one of the worst. How would you say? From manufacturer to end user. Everybody has their hand in the pipeline for completely unnecessary reasons. I mean, I get, you have to put something on a truck or something to get it from the factory to you or me. But after that, what are all these people doing? So, you know, they're making money.

[57:50] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: At our government's expense.

[57:53] CATHY SOWARD: Well, or anybody's expense. Yeah. So.

[57:57] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: But I mean, you know, if your drug is fourteen hundred dollars a month, you're just not going to take it because you can't afford it. But when, you know, if you have Medicare. I don't know. I don't know. So my dad, when he was on hospice, you know, ten years ago, he was taking like 21 medications. He's on hospice. He's going to die. And my poor mom is doing everything she can to get all these drugs down his throat. Finally, it's like my brother and I sat down with the hospice nurse and said, what does he need to take? Nothing. And she told us what every drug was for. And it was like, this is ridiculous.

[58:30] CATHY SOWARD: Ridiculous.

[58:31] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Because it's like this. Oh, this counteracts this, you know? And I think he was taking like a. Like a. What's the blue Viagra?

[58:39] CATHY SOWARD: Or something. Oh, my gosh. I mean, good for him. But.

[58:48] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Anyway, sorry, that was just my little soapbox. I had to get on.

[58:52] CATHY SOWARD: That's okay.

[58:55] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And for $350,000. I get it. I get it.

[58:59] CATHY SOWARD: Because.

[58:59] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Because that's something that. What you went through was terrifying and, you know, urgent. And.

[59:05] CATHY SOWARD: And I didn't know. You know, and I. To be quite honest, I didn't know how bad it was. I mean, I knew it was bad when I was in the hospital, but I didn't really comprehend until I got home and started looking it up, because I. I just didn't know. And then all. And then I ended up. I was in the middle of retiring at the same time, and I went back to work for, like six weeks, very part time. And people say, where are. Where have you been? You know? And I tell them, and, I mean, so many people are like, oh, my brother or my dad or my sister. Somebody that happened to them, they dropped. It's like. Yeah, I. Yeah, I think you could keep that to yourself right now.

[59:45] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: True. Yes. But, I mean, you're lucky it's in the brain, because I think you. There's the survivor rate is higher in the brain. Isn't like in the abdomen.

[59:54] CATHY SOWARD: Yes. There you can have an aortic one. You can have an abdominal one. Those are pretty universally fatal. But the brain one is like two thirds fatal, one third survivable. Maybe you have effects, or mine just seems to be. Lingering effect. Is music at church good excuse. I had an aneurysm.

[01:00:20] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I can't listen to this. Oh, gosh.

[01:00:22] CATHY SOWARD: It's ridiculous. You know, I don't want to be the little old lady that's complaining about the music at church, and here I am, so I don't complain. I know it's me. So, like, we used to tease our kids when they were young. They'd be at the table whining about something. We'd go, universe. Not right here.

[01:00:42] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That's a very good one. I like that.

[01:00:44] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. So. Because it's true.

[01:00:47] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And we. We all forget that. We forget that the world does not revolve around us.

[01:00:51] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. One time, one of them said, though, no, really, it is mom right now. So. But they've grown up. I hope they're not like that anymore. I don't think they're. But anyway, I'm glad you're okay. I would have never guessed you had such an awful experience. I'm so sorry.

[01:01:14] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: It was. The timing was absolutely perfect. You know how it works out because I just had that time during COVID to just sit on my computer and just research. Okay, what's my plan of action here? What am I going to do to help heal myself? And felt very good about that.

[01:01:28] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, that's good. Yeah.

[01:01:30] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Ignore me, because, I mean, the doctor wanted me to get a, um, MRI every three months. I'm like, don't they cause cancer? Well, yeah, but no. So cancer takes ten years to be discovered, ten years to grow to a size.

[01:01:46] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. I've had a lot of little bits of melanoma removed. And the dermatologist said that's like 30 years from sunburn to melanoma. Like, well, who knows?

[01:01:58] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: She.

[01:02:00] CATHY SOWARD: So did you wear swimsuits when you were young? That revealed a lot of skin? It's like, yes, don't. I can't. I gotta be a poker face here because. Purpose of a swimsuit.

[01:02:17] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Maybe she's from a different religion where they were. I don't know.

[01:02:21] CATHY SOWARD: It was a straight face. Well, she said, it's bad. People are getting melanoma a lot. So she was trying to figure it out and it's like, it's. I. We can't. Well, maybe we can blame it on swimsuits. Anyway, so. Yeah, yeah.

[01:02:36] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That same year, I had a, like a. I don't know how. It was huge on my. Same thing, melanoma. That was on my. Luckily, my chin line, but, you know. Yeah. So two. Two different kinds of cancer in one year. Kind of like, this is great.

[01:02:49] CATHY SOWARD: Two too many.

[01:02:52] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: But it's survivable. And, you know, just now I'm a resource for people that, you know, have cancer. They'll come and ask me and I'll hear it say, here's the 17 books you need to read. Oh, God.

[01:03:04] CATHY SOWARD: But that. I'm sure that's helpful for people because it's scary.

[01:03:10] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I mean, because they just want you in there the next day doing all that, and it's like, wait a minute. Let's just slow down a little bit. You took eight weeks to figure out what kind of cancer I had. Let's just wait a little while. Let me do some research. No, thank you. And for me, the doctor is like, okay, I need to change something about my lifestyle because I have had this cancer. And she said, no, you need to just eat cheeseburgers and drink milkshakes to keep your weight up for when you go through chemo, which I was like, what? Sugar feeds cancer. It's not good for you. I don't know. That was not a good thing. Didn't start off well for me, anyway.

[01:03:47] CATHY SOWARD: That's. That's a curious thing to suggest. I mean, I can see my. When my mom had lung cancer, it was getting her to want to eat even was rough, you know, but. And then. And the doctor said, anything you. Well, maybe this a different way of saying the same thing your doctor said. It just said, anything that sounds good, anything you want to eat, just to get calories. So I did. She wanted to have milkshakes because she, they felt better going down her throat. So I thought, okay, have. Have milkshake every day if you want. And she still lost a lot of weight and everything, but.

[01:04:25] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah, I know. And I just. My father in law went through that because he had throat cancer and just thought just. It just killed him. Just all the treatment just made his life miserable at the end. So.

[01:04:41] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, no, it's rough. I read an article one time where this doctor said some, I think he was an oncologist or something. He was. Someday we're going to look back at this day and age and talk about how barbaric the treatments that we did were. But he goes, we don't know any better right now, so we're kind of doing the best we can. But anyway, hopefully things will get better. Yeah, I don't.

[01:05:06] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I don't know. Because it's, you know, I didn't go. I was. Worked with a clinic in California. That's the nice thing about COVID is that all of a sudden you could do telehealth with all these wonderful places around the country. But they, they really helped as far as, like, these are the types of things you need to be doing right now that was very positive, you know, not going down the conventional route. So I really, I really appreciated that and recommend that to anybody. But, you know, people are afraid when they are confronted with this and they just want to. They want somebody to tell them what to do, and that's what the doctor will do. It's like, that's maybe not the best thing. We need to. Can we back up? And I don't know. I don't want to die from cancer and have my life be terrible for the, you know, for the five years before I die or whatever. I would rather just. If I live, if it shortened my life, I would live a shorter life and be healthier. That's just what I decided.

[01:06:04] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Well, I'm very glad you're okay. I mean, very glad. And thankfully, you have many, many years left, so.

[01:06:12] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. And I don't know if you did this, if you felt this way about when you had your aneurysm or maybe you didn't have the cognition, but I just kind of was like, so, is this it, God? And I just felt like he said, no, you have a lot of years. Did you feel that way? Like you had optimism?

[01:06:27] CATHY SOWARD: Yes, I was optimistic. I remember. So we had an interim pastor at our church then, and somehow he got in or to the hospital. They weren't even letting people in to see me. But anyway, he visited. He came back to the church and told him the story about praying for the gal before the surgery and everything. And then when I came back to church, which was a long time, I remember taking every word of everything to heart.

[01:07:03] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Everything.

[01:07:04] CATHY SOWARD: All the. I mean, I always listen, my husband's taking out the recycling. There's a window right here. I always listen, you know, to whatever the teaching is. But, I mean, every word of every song, everything. And I was just, like, crying because I was like, you people don't know how this is important, you know, and all these things. You're just saying the words, but it's important, you know, so. And I was so happy to be alive after I realized, you know, that. So the next summer on would have been July of 2017, or daughter and her then boyfriend, now husband, came out. They wanted. So we're not that far from the beach here, like an hour. And so they said, we want to go run a half marathon. I was like, well, I'm not running a half marathon. You know, I'm not up to that. And so. But I could walk of whatever it was, some short thing. So I was so, so happy just to be alive. And over in Newport, where the marathon or the short walk was, you go down to the NOAA dock where the ships that go to Antarctic and everything, and there's a coast guard or Navy or whoever they are guy there, and he goes, so, how's your day? And I'm like, I'm so happy. You know, just. I mean, that stayed with me for a long, long time, because now I feel like that's the kind of thing where that could have been it. And for whatever reason, God is like, no, it's. That was not it. And you're still here. And so every time. Every time something happens, I was like, okay, God, I'm paying attention. What? Is there something like, right here in this very minute that I should be, you want me to do or not or whatever. And sometimes I think he's just like, would you just listen? You know?

[01:09:03] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I'm listening. Tell me again. I forgot. I didn't. I didn't hear it.

[01:09:06] CATHY SOWARD: So. So I don't know why, but I'm very grateful, you know, I got to see both of our kids get married. I got to have suit, two granddaughters, spend more time with my husband. It's just all these things that before, I was like, oh, yeah, that's nice. Now they're like, no, that is, you know, really wonderful things that I don't think I appreciated to the. As much as I do now. So. Yeah.

[01:09:34] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And you have a sense of humor about it. I mean, you're. You're laughing and you're joyful and you're not. You're not staying in that because you could be afraid of it happening again.

[01:09:44] CATHY SOWARD: And it could. It could. And I mean, well, anything, you know, really, you never know what's going to happen.

[01:09:51] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Like, just even a fluke car accident, you know, the. You just don't expect that. And something crazy could happen. So you were at work, and you didn't think that it was the right thing to go home and take a nap, so you went to the.

[01:10:02] CATHY SOWARD: I went, this is another bad decision. But luckily, it turned out okay. I drove myself. I thought, well, I have to go home. I can't do it. I was in a teleconference like this with my manager and his boss, who's a VPN, who's a crabby person, anyway, and it was going really well, and I thought, I can't. And nobody ever, ever, ever drops off. You know, it wasn't zoom, but same idea. They just don't. And I was like, I said, I'm very sorry. Something has happened. I'm very ill, I have to go. And I couldn't see, so I thought, how do I. And I was sharing files, and I was like, yikes. Anyway, I drove myself to the hospital, which is closer to where I work than my home. I thought, well, I've heard if you ever had a sudden bad headache, you should go get checked out. And so I drove there, and I was all the way going, must not hit cars. Must not hit cars, you know, went in. Well, I couldn't see. I could see kind of like how I imagine bugs see. You know, they have that million lenses, you know, and so they see. Yeah. And so. So anyway, I shouldn't have driven when I got to the hospital in Portland. Why did your drivers left? Like, because I didn't, I shouldn't have. Okay, let's just move on, Max. Yeah. And the hospital there, I don't, I guess if you walk in and your arms hanging off or something, they take you right into the ER. But they sat me down a little desk, they said, where's your insurance card? I'm going. My head really, really, really hurts. So they finally, as soon as they did some imaging, they're like, oh, we have a helicopter coming for you. And then you're going to get on it and.

[01:11:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Oh my gosh.

[01:11:58] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah.

[01:11:59] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Because you're just bleeding inside internally in your brain.

[01:12:02] CATHY SOWARD: And, and it was way down here, which I think is not good, you know, I mean, you don't want to anyway, but, and the weird things you remember, this is truly weird. So there's the pilot in the helicopter, and they seat you diagonally, kind of, or lay you or whatever, because it's not very big. So there were two paramedics in the helicopter. This very stern woman who was like, okay, husband kissed your wife, say goodbye, we're leaving. And a absolutely beautiful man. Beautiful. And I'm throwing up and I'm crying and everything. And he's like, it's okay, we'll be there pretty soon. I wish you weren't so nice looking.

[01:12:54] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: This is what you remember?

[01:12:55] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Yes. Isn't that cool?

[01:12:58] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: The great thing about having it low is that they didn't have to go in through your skull, right?

[01:13:03] CATHY SOWARD: Well, they gave me a choice. I'm trying. So the, one of the twelve year old neurologists came in and said, we can either go through your skull and clip it, or we can go up through, you know, your kind of, your groin vein and we can plug it and, and, you know, and they're asking me because I was conscious and I said, well, what do you think? And they said, they kind of were, I could tell, leaning towards the going up this way. And I said, well, let's do that. They go, okay, good. That's the team. We already called in. They're on their way. It's like, why are we talking?

[01:13:44] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: So I guess they want you to have some opinion. But, you know, and maybe it was, maybe he was twelve. That was his first surgery ever. He's actually, he wasn't in medical school yet. He was only in the 6th grade.

[01:13:56] CATHY SOWARD: I just, I mean, everyone's, I'm 67 and that was eight years ago, so I was younger, but, um, everyone is younger. They're just, the older you get, the younger everyone is. Anyway, it worked. And my, anyway, my husband didn't know what it was. My daughter had to explain it to him. And from Iowa calling, go, this is what an aneurysm is. And he's like, what? So it all worked out.

[01:14:26] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And him having to drive the hour.

[01:14:28] CATHY SOWARD: And a half to Portland, he somebody. So at that time, we had this red car. I love this car. Anyway, it was parked in the parking lot, and some friends of ours brought their father in law in and said, oh, Kathy's car is here. Is a nice car. So they said, oh, Cathy must be here. So by that time, Chris was there. And so they start talking and realize, oh, you're gonna have to go to Portland. They called another friend who drove my husband, so we didn't. It was really, really very nice. Things I didn't know happened until after I got home. So was very kind. I mean, it was just, you know, I was out of it, but other people were not, fortunately. So, anyway.

[01:15:19] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. And so you retired at what age?

[01:15:23] CATHY SOWARD: 59? Yeah, I was pretty close to 60, but it was a little. I was planning on it. Well, I took it every so often at HP. They offered early retirement packages. So I took one of those and told my husband, I'm going to do this, and I would like it if you could work five more years and then we could have insurance. And he said, okay. So that was very nice of him. So.

[01:15:54] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: We'Ll work till we're 70 because we are self employed. But that's okay. That's how it is.

[01:15:59] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, the whole insurance situation makes it hard for people to make a decision that doesn't involve insurance.

[01:16:11] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. And it's a tragedy that it's tied to your employment. I really think it's a tragedy because then you're kind of stuck with this maybe not the best place, or, you know, maybe. But maybe there would be more mobility moving around from job to job if you weren't.

[01:16:27] CATHY SOWARD: Or if somebody had a great idea that some. Who knows what that they wanted to try, but not having insurance holds them back or. Or artists or who, you know. Anyway, yeah, there's a lot.

[01:16:41] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Luckily, we're pretty healthy. We don't have problem, you know, so I don't know what's going to happen with insurance, but something does need to happen. But I just don't really want. I want it to go back to the way it was before Obamacare, because I think that we had way more options. And, I mean, now if you went to that ER. Now, I'm sorry. With all the immigrants, I don't even know if you would be. I don't know what would happen, because I have a niece that works. She's a. She's a nurse practitioner, and she manages four ers here in Spokane.

[01:17:09] CATHY SOWARD: And she's just like, well, and there's a lot. There's a shortage of many kinds of clinicians. You know, I've had to be in the ER since then. And it's like when last time was. They go, well, we don't have any neurologists. Like, what? And they go, we call up to Ohsu and we get on the phone with a neurologist and we share imaging with them, and away we go. And I was like, what? You know, they didn't have one, so. And this is not a tiny town. This is like, 60,000 people anyway.

[01:17:45] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:17:46] CATHY SOWARD: So I have a. I have a.

[01:17:49] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Cousin that lives in Eugene, and he. The cross family, and he was flying a small plane. He has a few planes, and he crashed his plane in a field. And it's just. It's a miracle he lived. It's a miracle everything. And same thing. The healthcare was out of this world because he was probably in a coma for six months.

[01:18:09] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, my.

[01:18:10] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: But it's so incredible that the caterpillar company that they had their friends with somehow picked up the bill because he had to be in, like, Denver for six months, and they had to be someplace else for six for rehab once he woke up. And he's almost back to normal, almost 100%, just a little bit cognitive. But it's just. Yeah. Such a. Such a miracle when.

[01:18:32] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. Because I think the fabulous care is out there, but it's not very accessible, you know, sometimes. But sometimes it is for your friend and for me, it worked. And. And that was the other thing. I thought, there is nothing about me that is like, I deserve that more than anybody else. It's just like.

[01:18:54] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah.

[01:18:55] CATHY SOWARD: Anyway.

[01:18:56] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. And that's it. And that's a tough. I get that. I really understand what you're saying. Especially. Especially because you have so much more appreciation for it, because you've been through this and everybody deserve care. But, you know, you go to another country, like Africa. I've been to Africa lots of times on mission trips. They have. You have to bring your family to take care of you while you're in the hospital. They don't have anybody else that takes care of them.

[01:19:20] CATHY SOWARD: Even for food. Yeah.

[01:19:22] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: No, yeah. They bring everything. They have to bring your sheets.

[01:19:26] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah.

[01:19:26] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: And our son was in. It had a terrible. He was in Thailand, and he had a terrible infection that. Luckily, it's a. It's very popular. It happens a lot in that area from, like, rodent urine, and it got into a cut on his foot. Anyways, he stayed in the hospital for, like, three weeks in the ICU. And, you know, they take your passport. He's a broke kid when he's there. And I think we had Zoom calls with the doctors, and they talked to us in English, and it was wonderful. And it was $2,000.

[01:19:57] CATHY SOWARD: Oh, my.

[01:19:59] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: That was just unbelievable.

[01:20:01] CATHY SOWARD: Wow.

[01:20:02] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Wow. Like, because I thought, what is this going to cost us? I don't know what it's going to cost, but it's $2,000.

[01:20:09] CATHY SOWARD: And how is your son now?

[01:20:11] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Oh, but, I mean, his liver and his kidneys shut down from this infection, and he was. It was horrible. And luckily, we just happened to call him, like we usually did, once a week, to say, how are you doing? And it's like, what's wrong with you, Jared?

[01:20:22] CATHY SOWARD: You're just.

[01:20:23] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I think he lost 30 pounds before he went to the hospital and just looked terrible. He's like, I can hardly. I can hardly get out of bed. And I lost my ATM card. And he was just so disoriented because he was so sick. That's like, just get to a hospital. I don't have any money. I'm like, I don't care. I'll get on the phone with whoever. Just get to the hospital anyways. Yes.

[01:20:45] CATHY SOWARD: Okay. And good care. Wow.

[01:20:48] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Good care for $2,000?

[01:20:50] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah. That's amazing and wonderful. Yeah. Well, I'm.

[01:20:55] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Well, I appreciate this.

[01:20:56] CATHY SOWARD: Yes, me, too. I'm afraid to say I'm gonna have to go. But I'm so glad to meet you. I don't know what happens at this point. I only know what happens to me, but I don't know what happens at this point.

[01:21:08] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: Yeah. I haven't seen anything or heard anything from the other conversations that. I've only had one other conversation, but, yeah, just.

[01:21:16] CATHY SOWARD: Okay, this was great. If we talk more, that would be very fun. And if we don't, I'm very, very glad to meet you.

[01:21:24] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: You as well. And I'm glad that you did this.

[01:21:28] CATHY SOWARD: Yeah, me too. I just. And I'm so glad. Even after it was, like, three plus years, all of a sudden, you know, was like, maybe they hired more people there or something. Who knows? But anyway, I'm very glad to meet you, Steffanie

[01:21:43] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: You as well.

[01:21:44] CATHY SOWARD: Okay.

[01:21:46] STEFFANIE ANDERSON: I hope you have a good evening.

[01:21:48] CATHY SOWARD: Thank you. You too. Okay, bye.