Ivonne Diaz and Sofía Avant-Mier

[00:00] IVONNE DIAZ: Hi, my name is Ivonne Diaz. I am 35 years old. My pronouns are she, her, Yvonne and today's date is January 28, 2023. We're in El Paso, Texas, and I'm here with my coworker, Sofía

[00:15] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Hi, my name is Sofía Ventmire. I am 22 years old. It is January 28, 2023, and I'm here in El Paso, Texas, with Ivonne my coworker and colleague.

[00:27] IVONNE DIAZ: Awesome. So we can start with one of the first questions that we have prepared. We can start by describing our roles. What do we do? Where do we work?

[00:37] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Okay, well, so I work for Texas Rising. I am the advocacy and field organizer, and my job is to organize events for our chapter citywide, do a lot of adequacy for different issues, specifically immigration reform, environmentalism, reproductive justice, and things like that. So we do rallies around town. We collab with other organizations to work on getting a community supportive of each other on these issues. So that's my duty. Ivonne what do you do for our organization?

[01:22] IVONNE DIAZ: I feel like we do a lot on a lot of different issues. I'm the regional field coordinator or organizer. I don't know my title. And we managed, like, the region coordinate to collaborate with other organizations. We work with campus organizer Michael, and we try to advocate for the different issues that a lot of young people care about, like immigration reform, as you said, climate justice, reproductive or abortion rights. And just like, those issues that are so important, that can be a lot in debate, but I think it's super important that we look into them and explore and see what we can do to make our communities better.

[02:19] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: So what led you to community organizing and activism?

[02:25] IVONNE DIAZ: For me, I think we talked about this. I felt like I was more like I had to do it, not forced, but I felt like it was something that I needed to do if I wanted to really have an active role on the decisions about my future and my life. I started off, I graduated from here, from UTIP with a philosophy degree and psychology degree, and I started working at a mental health clinic here and then in San Antonio. I had, like, a background on mental health caseworker, and I saw that a lot of the times, this system is difficult for people, including, it doesn't matter if you're a citizen or you're not a citizen, if you have money or don't have money, the system usually works more around the people that has money. So I wanted to take a look into how I can have more an active role to advocate for people and for myself. Because I'm also a DACA recipient. I came here when I was young, and a lot of the decisions that were made in the government and especially after 2016 were affecting me. And that's when I decided to switch roles and I started working for political candidates that I thought that were going to create a change. It was harder than what I thought, but that's how I started. I started working for different political candidates in the state. Congress that we're running for, Congress that we're running for Senate, even some presidential campaign. And I went to different states, and I started trying to have those officials elected, the ones that I thought that could make a change. And then last a year and a half, my dad had an accident. He fell off the roof. And that's when I came back to El Paso, because he has cancer. And I thought that everyone taught that he was not gonna make it, or he had, like, very little time. But it's been a year and a half, and he's still alive. But that's what brought me to El Paso, and that's when I started getting more deep into organizing and advocating. And just working with Texas rising has been kind of like a stepping stone and has helped me getting to know, like, the ways of advocacy. How can I continue advocating for. For myself, for my community, or for the issues that a lot of us care about? And what about you?

[05:09] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: So, for me, I'm fortunate enough to not have to worry about a lot of the things you were describing. I was born here, but my parents, my mom wasn't. My mom was born in Mexico. So I always, you know, even though I don't have. I'm not a first. I'm not an immigrant. I'm first generation, but I always understood a lot of her struggles. I grew up with them, and she did not. She's naturalized now, but for most of my childhood, she wasn't. And I remember, like, thinking when she did become naturalized, like, I was not any more proud of her for becoming a citizen than I would have been if she wasn't, you know, like, I just don't. It's. Growing up. I grew up in Boston. My family is from Juarez and here and some in Cruces, but I grew up in Boston. My parents moved there, so I grew up there. So I grew up in a very predominantly white community. It was a working class irish neighborhood that I lived in. They. So when we moved there, we were literally, like, the only Mexicans in the neighborhood. These people had never seen in their life. Like, it was, you know, like they thought, like I was. They'd be like, oh, you're spanish. And like, you then as a little kid, it's this really awkward position of, like, having to explain to people, that's a different thing. Like Spanish, that's in like, Europe, that's not, we're mexican. Like, that's totally different thing. And even as Latinos, like, you know, the few other immigrants that were there, they, it's, you know, being Latino is not like a universal experience, you know, so growing up there, there's no sense of, I guess, respect in that sense, you know, because most of those families have been there for hundreds of years and they were not used to this, like, mexican family they'd been exposed to. But it was really funny, though, because I don't think I experienced racism, like, in the more obvious sense as a mexican family. We were, I went to a catholic school and like many Mexicans, I have catholic family and that community was an irish catholic community. So I think that, you know, Catholicism was kind of a way for them to accept us. They were like very standoffish at first and they found out we were Catholic. So they were very welcoming and they kind of, my parents and they, and the parents of my friends were able to find community in that sense. And they were very welcoming. And everybody I grew up with, they were very nice people. Like, I'm not going to say, like, oh, I'm a victim of racism. Like, all these people were horrible to me. My family were the only one. It wasn't like that. They were very nice, welcoming people. But inevitably, when you're in a community like that, that it's not exposed to your people. They were just little things that you noticed the older you get, like microaggressions. And I know they didn't, they're not mean people, they're not bigoted people. But as you get older, you notice things that are kind of inappropriate. And when you're little, you don't think much of it because you don't. It's not really your job to evaluate the socio political state of your role in the community, you know, the community or your role in it and where your sense of identity in that place. But yeah, it's just looking back on it, you notice things. You're like, that was like, that was racism.

[08:53] IVONNE DIAZ: Do you think, like growing up in that environment kind of shaped like your views? Like, now that you're older, how do you think that also influenced for you to do the job that we do, like here in the community? Just like being self aware of the environment that you were in?

[09:12] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah. So like I said, we were the only Mexicans. So I was hyper aware of that from a young age because people pointed it out, not because I was particularly worried about it or anything, but when you're the only brown girl in a class of, like, 30 irish kids, like, they're gonna know, right? So they were very quick to other eyes, and I'm not gonna say experienced, like, bullying. It wasn't like that, but it was just. It's little comments. Like, for example, I don't know if this is universal experience, but in school, we got crayons, and it was like the cheap pack of, like, eight crayons, like, the primary colors and, like, black and I brown. So, like, race was, like, super. They point it out when you're young. Like, things that I was never, like, had to think about. The other kids were quick to point out because the white kids usually use, like, when drawing themselves, they would use, like, a yellow crayon that was the crayon most similar to their skin tone. Out of, like, the, you know, the primary colors, they would use a yellow crayon. The black kids would usually use a brown crayon. And then, so as a brown girl, I would do this funny thing. I would kind of mix, like, the yellow and the brown crayon to kind of create, like, an in between color. And then, yeah, I remember one time, like, reaching for, like, the yellow crayon to kind of make this in between shade. And then this kidney, he goes like, oh, like, you can't use that. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, like, that's, like, for, you know, like, white kids. Like, you can't use that color. Like, use the brown one. And I was like, but I'm not really that dark either. Like, I'm trying to create, like, an in between shade. And he was telling me, he was like, well, you're like, black, so use, like, the black crayon. And I was like, see, I know what black is. I know I'm not white, but I know I'm not black either. Being brown is kind of like a separate thing. And he couldn't fathom that to him, the way he was. There was the white kids, and then there was everybody else. And he was like, you're not light enough to use the yellow crayon. Use the black one, the black kids. And it's like, why are you being so weird about it? I was just a little girl trying to create this shade of brown that suited me. And he was really quick to point out, like, I was too dark to use the yellow crayon or whatever. And, like, at the time, it didn't bother me. I was like, okay, dude, like, whatever you say. Like, I was just gonna keep doing what I was doing, but as I got older, I was like, that's so weird. Like, why does this kid feel the need to point out, like, you can't use this crayon? Like, it's not that serious. Like, you don't need to. You know? So it's things like that. Like, it wasn't. Like, it wasn't anything brutal. It wasn't anything that, like, traumatized me. But, like, you notice things as you get older that are, like, you know what? Like, that's not nice. That's not normal. Like, you know? So I forgot where I was going with it. There's a point to that. Okay. I remember. So, yeah, so that was my experience in school, like, being the only Mexican there. So, like, I was hyper aware of race at a very young age for, like, no reason because my parents, like, at home, we always spoke Spanish because obviously, you know, in Boston, it's not like we were going to be speaking Spanish at school, so at home, we only spoke Spanish, so they made sure that my siblings and I wouldn't lose it. But they never really gave me, like, a huge lecture. Like, oh, like, you're. You're Mexican. Like, you need to, like, you need to know. They never gave me, like, a huge list history lesson. Like, it was pretty. They never made a big deal out of the fact that, like, we were the only mexican family. Like, obviously they had, like, mexican pride or latino pride or chicano pride, but it was never, like, a huge issue that they imposed on me when I was little. They just kind of let me, like, figure it out along the way. It was other kids that made me, like, hyper aware of the fact that I was brown or whatever, so that's one thing. But growing up, also, I lived in this, like, condo complex, and my neighbors, they were lesbians. They were a lesbian couple, and they were super nice, and they were, when my brother and I, we were in elementary school, and they would often invite us up. They were gardeners. They had a beautiful garden. They would grow flowers and, like, fresh vegetables, and they would often, like, have us up there and help them, like, cook or garden or just, you know, they were a really nice, like, lovely couple. So that's. I bring that up because I had kind of a similar experience with, like, the lgbt community. Like, I. Growing up, I was exposed to it. I never saw it as like, you know, a polarizing issue. I always like, and I remember I was a flower girl at their wedding, actually. And so, like, when I was a kid, like, there was no moment where I was like, mom, dad, like, why do these two women get married? Like, I thought it had to be a boy and a girl. It was never anything like that. Like, my parents never explained it to me. They never were like, hey, Sofía like, we need to talk to you. So, you know, our neighbors, like, they're together. Like, it was never anything like that. Like, they never really acknowledged it because it wasn't something that they saw as needing to be acknowledged. Like, no, like, they were a couple. I knew that they were a couple. And, like, I never really had questions about it. It was never really seen as, like, shocking. So I'm really fortunate that my parents kind of, like, had me in an environment where they did not need to point out or, like, you know, otherize marginalized communities. It was something that I was used to. I mentioned how we were the only latino family, like, in the neighborhood, but we were not the only immigrant neighborhood. I mean, immigrant family. My particular street, we had a lot of vietnamese and haitian and jamaican immigrants. So although we were definitely, like, the only Latinos, like, there was also that kind of sense of, you know, immigrant community. Immigrant community that I found in that neighborhood. It was at Dorchester. So Dorchester is, like, historically a super working class irish neighborhood, but because it was working class, a lot of immigrants moved there. So despite being, like, in a very white area, we were also able to find community with other immigrants in that sense. So I bring all this up. I know I'm going off separate tangents, but I bring all this up because I think the point is these identities that are seen as political right now, or, I mean, I guess have always been political. The point, these things that are, like, controversial. Growing up, I was fortunate enough to grow up in an environment where it wasn't. It was normal to me. And then you get older and then you realize, oh, people don't like, people don't like gay people. People don't like women. People don't like Mexicans or black people. Like, why? That's so weird, because that's all I've known. I've never. So even though I've never had one experience that was so traumatic that I thought, oh, I need to, like, fight for my community. No, I think it was always kind of ingrained in, because it was always normal. It was always normal to me. And then I found out a lot of people don't view it as normal, like, huh, that's curious. Like, maybe we should do something about that.

[16:49] IVONNE DIAZ: I would probably say that maybe it's just a small people that don't like those things. I think the majority of us, like, we have been more accepting. We have been more, I don't know. People say woke, even though I don't really like that. But I think it goes back to the work that we do, that a lot of people are not just politically engaged. And that's so true. The presentation last week at the university and one of the questions that we ask is how many people are into politics? And it was at 1.0 hands in a classroom of over 30 people. And then the other one, it was about two hands or three hands, no more than that. But then when we ask about who cares about the issues for criminal justice reform or for climate justice or for reproductive rights, then we see a lot more people raising their hands. I think it's just that a lot of people are not engaged in the political world.

[17:52] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Well, I think you're right. I think the problem is that they don't realize that so many of these issues are political, even though they shouldn't be. A lot of things we think should be a given, they're political. And so I think that's a problem is people are not informed of the fact that you might be like, oh, no, politics. That's not my thing. It's none of my business. But it is. People don't realize things that you might not even realize are political. Anything that affects you on the day to day, it's political. I think people don't really advertise. They think, oh, like political. That's Congress people and politicians and mayors and the Senate. That's none of my business. Well, it is. There's city council. There are things that affect you on the day to day. And we don't advertise as a community the fact that all these issues, they are political and they do affect you enough. So I think it's easy for a lot of people to be like, oh, these people, like, they're just ignorant. They don't want to be. I think a lot of people, like, in my experience, they can be very judgmental of people who say things like that. Like, oh, no. Like, I don't know. And I think it's unfair because I think a lot of people just don't know, like these issues are political.

[19:09] IVONNE DIAZ: And maybe that's why I got involved in politics or organizing world. In contrast, like with you, you were more like probably okay, this is important. Like, you realized in your own, like, even if it wasn't affecting you in other ways or directly, but your upbringing kind of influenced that. And for me, it was like the opposite. Like, I would have probably been, like, happy. I got my daCA when I was 25 after graduating from college, and I was like, okay, cool, I can get my master's now, and I can continue just doing life like normal people do. But then it started, like, my. My freedom or my privilege to be in this country was threatened. And that's when I was like, okay, I need to leave everything aside and just get involved and do whatever I can. And I think that's the majority of people. Like, we don't get involved until it affects us sometimes. And even if it affects us, we don't realize maybe how can we get involved? And I think definitely that's how or why I started getting involved, because it was affecting me. I thought that after getting DACA, maybe things were going to change. I don't know. Obama was president. Things were going in a better way. But then in 2016, we know everything kind of went downhill for a lot of people. And as I said, if it affects us, then we get to work. But if it doesn't affect us, maybe it doesn't really. It's really hard to get involved. But for you, maybe you were not directly affected, but your upbringing was definitely an influence for you to get in this line of work.

[20:51] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah. And then that's not to say I was completely, like, unaffected. Like, I wouldn't say I'm a victim, but, you know, growing up, like, you know, say, like, as a Mexican, as a woman, you notice things. You're like, yo, you know what? That's. That is bigotry. That is misogyny. That was racism. And, you know, if you're like, you know, five year old, you may not really pick up on what it is or why, but as you get older, you're like, oh, like, yeah, people don't like me because of how I look. You know? Like, it's funny, but, yeah, like, I. I definitely think it's. It's really cool how. I know.

[21:27] IVONNE DIAZ: I know.

[21:27] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: You say, like, you. You got into it because you felt like you had no choice, but that's not necessarily true. Like, I really admire the fact that you were able to be engaged, like, knowing the risks, because I do know people that they. They're in similar positions. They were in similar positions as you, but they choose to, like, lay low. And I get that, like, no, no disrespect. To them. Like, I totally understand. So I think it's. But I think it's really admirable that, you know, knowing, like, the risks, you still choose to get out there and fight for your rights.

[22:01] IVONNE DIAZ: I think you just said, like, the keyword, like, sometimes it feels like privilege, like, we do also things maybe out of, like, need, but also realizing, like, the privilege, because I do realize that sometimes other people doesn't feel like they have the privilege to do that. Maybe I'm not in a privileged position, but I try to do it also because I know maybe education is a privilege, and I know I'm aware of what are my rights or the things that I can respond to in case that any. I don't know it's making sense, but the things that I can respond to or the ways that I can respond to certain situations. And also, like, money definitely is a privilege, like, having, and I'm not saying I definitely don't have money or anything, but I know I had, like, being in a better position, too, like, when I started working in San Antonio or just have meeting a lot of people, you network and you start earning more money. So I know that some people might not go to a rally, not because they don't want to, but maybe because they have to work. And if you don't work, you don't need. And I think that's the privilege I have. I have the privilege to be working in an organization, Texas Rising dad focuses on advocating and provides the right tools, provides the funding for us to do things like this. And that's definitely a privilege. And having the knowledge and the information about what are my rights? What are the things that I can or cannot do even when I have DACA. So that's definitely privileged. Would you consider maybe there are things that you feel like you have privilege that allows you to do this kind of work?

[23:54] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I am a citizen. My mother's, both my parents are citizens now, but I still have family that isn't. And they know the work that I do, and they're very supportive, but they won't attend a lot of the stuff out of, like, the rallies that we do or things that we do out of fear because they, it's not, it's not just, like, risk of, like, getting deported or things like that, but also, like, there are reporters there, like, they don't want their picture taken or they just. Some people, I have friends that this. They live in environments where they don't feel totally safe. Like, for example, I have gay friends that maybe aren't out to their parents, so they can't go to certain rallies because if their parents find out, they'll get disowned. So out of their own safety, they can't do the things that they want to do. Same thing with some of my friends that would like to go to abortion rallies. They have very conservative parents that are super against that. So they. They just say, like, I can't go. Like, I would love to go, but I can't. Because if they take my picture and my mom finds out, like, I'll be homeless. So I'm really lucky that I grew up. I have educated parents that are very, like, open minded, and they are very supportive of the work that I do, and I don't live with them anymore, so I also don't have to worry since I'm not dependent on them. If they weren't open minded, I still wouldn't have to worry about coming home to people that aren't supportive of what I do or are going to disown me because of what I do, because I'm fortunate enough to have been able to move out. But I know a lot of people in the community who aren't able to do that. Most of my friends still can't afford to move out of their parents house. So they, you know, you know, you're like, my house. My rule is, like, they still have to abide by whatever their parents associate with my parents.

[25:54] IVONNE DIAZ: And I'm 35 years old.

[25:55] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah. Like, and it's like that for most people here. I think, like, yeah, I was gonna say a big, like, salary job. Like, you're not gonna move out till you're, like, in your thirties, maybe.

[26:06] IVONNE DIAZ: It's probably like a Hispanic, like, or Latin. Latinx, whichever term is preferred. I think it's, like, cultural and especially here in El Paso, and also economical. Like, I know that I'm with my parents because we, like, when my dad got sick, we started, like, supporting each other, and it's also, like, cultural. I feel like that we here in El Paso, we all depend a lot on that, but it's also, as you said, it can have its pros and cons. And when it comes to advocacy or doing things that. That you care on organizing, that cannot be to the best of our advantage at times. Since we were talking about this, what would you consider to be, like, some of the risks of working in this line of work in advocacy and organizing?

[27:00] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Oh, that's a good question.

[27:01] IVONNE DIAZ: I know that, for me is, like, self care. I know that a lot of the times, we work a lot because we're passionate, because we like what we do.

[27:14] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: And since it's never ending, you don't take a break as much as you need to because it never ends. There's always.

[27:19] IVONNE DIAZ: There's always something.

[27:20] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: There's always work to be done.

[27:21] IVONNE DIAZ: Yes. And not having boundaries and not being able to draw the line, that is definitely some of the things that can affect us in this line of work. Like, it can be too. There's a lot of emotional investment.

[27:35] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah, definitely.

[27:36] IVONNE DIAZ: We're working on accelerate right now.

[27:39] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: No, that's the thing. Like, we're lucky that we get to do work that we like. But there's this quote, and it's like, yeah, like, if you don't work a nine to five, you're gonna work seven days a week. It's kind of true. Like, in my experience, like, we. Our work, since we do different things every day, you never really know what your schedule is gonna look like. We do work almost every day, and we don't have a lot of boundaries that I guess people who have nine to fives would. Not that they necessarily always have the best boundaries either. I know plenty of people work nine to fives that still are taken advantage of, but in theory, you're supposed to be off the clock after five on a Friday for us, we don't have that. So everything. So it's also, like, the luxury of not, like, knowing what your schedule is gonna be like, because there's always something like, you might be like, oh, like, I'm gonna work in the morning, you know, Monday through Thursday, and then I'll be off. And then, oh, like, a surprise rally is happening on Saturday. You're like, well, like, I should go. And so even though, like, you didn't really work it into your schedule, you still go because it's something that you care about, and it's like, it's great. Like, you love that. But over time, like, if you're doing stuff like that, like, almost every week or several times a month, you can get burnt out really quickly. And so I think you're right. It's important that we learn to take better care of ourselves and set those, like, work life balances. But it's just so hard because our work is about our lives. So it's really. There's, like, a really kind of, how.

[29:23] IVONNE DIAZ: Do you think we can change that? Or how do you think we can work on that? Because I need the advice there.

[29:29] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: I mean, I don't think this is, like, super profound or helpful, but I think communication has to be the number one. You have to be also just have the nerve, like, I guess, to tell your boss, like, I'm gonna be unavailable, like, Friday, I'm not requesting time off. Like, I'm telling you I'm not gonna be there. So, like, figure it out, cuz like, I can't be there.

[29:54] IVONNE DIAZ: But I've never heard you say that.

[29:56] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: No, I say it. I just say it nicer than that.

[30:00] IVONNE DIAZ: Being able to say no, that's definitely.

[30:02] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah, you have to say no. And like, it doesn't have to just be no. You just have to be able to stand up to your boss in whatever manner is appropriate at the time. For me, I'm really lucky because you're my boss, so I'm really lucky that I have a boss that I get along with and we work together really well and, you know, we're not, like, afraid of each other, but that's not always the case. You know, I feel like for most people, they don't have that kind of employer employee relationship because I genuinely see you more as like, a colleague because you've treated me with the respect that a colleague would live in.

[30:41] IVONNE DIAZ: Decentralization.

[30:42] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah. Like, it's different from, like, the, the boss. So I've never been afraid to tell you, like, hey, Ivonne like, I'm sorry, but, like, I can't do this. Like, I'm at capacity right now. I can reschedule for this day, but, like, at that time, it's, it's just not gonna happen. So I'm lucky that I work in this environment, and I think we work with a lot of people that are like, that understanding. We work with a lot of really understanding and kind and smart and patient people. So I've never had, like, any major issues like that at this job, but I definitely had in this, like, realm, I've definitely worked with other, you know, people that are very, just inconsiderate of, you know, boundaries. And I just, I told them, like, I'm an employee. Like, I'm replaceable. Like, I'm not gonna break my back for $10 an hour. Like, it's not worth it. So it's just, it's also, it's like, kind of having to work up the nerve not to just tell people no, but also to just kind of stand up for. For yourself, for yourself in any capacity.

[31:45] IVONNE DIAZ: You advocate for the community, but sometimes we don't advocate for ourselves. And I think that's something that I feel that even if I have really understanding, like, supervisors manager, I think sometimes I ask too much for myself, and I push myself to the limits. And I think that's also part of, like, an immigrant trauma.

[32:06] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Yeah, that's definitely cultural, I think.

[32:10] IVONNE DIAZ: I mean, yeah, like, I think, yeah, I feel like I have to continuously validate myself because my worth sometimes I see it, like, reflected as the level of productivity that I have. I am worthy of remaining on this country because of the work that I do. Because of how.

[32:34] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Because of what you produce.

[32:35] IVONNE DIAZ: Yes. And it shouldn't be like that because I feel like everyone, including immigrants, including everyone, we should. And we deserve rest.

[32:46] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: No, you do.

[32:47] IVONNE DIAZ: Everyone deserves to rest and have time.

[32:50] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: For themselves and regardless of your productivity levels. And I see that a lot in my mom, too. She's the first one overdose. And I see that in her definitely. She definitely. I think, in that sense, kind of feels like. No. Like, they let me in. I have to go above and beyond, and I'm like, mom, that's great. I'm proud of you. But, you know, your boss, they're taking advantage of you. Like, you're working weight, you're working, like, 60 hours. Like, you're not getting paid to do this. Like, I promise you, you can take. You can tell people no. But there's stuff. And I think I. I think that's a very, like, universal immigrant experience in the US. But it's also kind of latino thing, I've noticed, like. Cause even if you're not, like, I get that in my family, even those of us that are, like, citizens, there's also that sense of, like, I don't know if it's like, chicano pride or it's like, you know, white people, they're never gonna see you as one of them. So you always have something to prove. You have to work two or three times as hard to get half of what they get. So whatever you do, it's never gonna be enough. So you can never stop. You cannot take a break because it. So, I mean, it's a little different because the immigrant trauma is, like, a different thing, but there's overlap, I think. And I think it's definitely, like, cultural. Cause, yeah, I see it a lot in my family, despite being a citizen.

[34:10] IVONNE DIAZ: Yeah. And I think you touched on something that. Yeah, just being immigrant. But, like, inequality is, like, on our. On workplace, sometimes it has to be due to gender. Sometimes it has to be due to, I don't know, like, color or race or. I think. How do you think that we in our line of work, in advocacy? I think we might say, like, working for a nonprofit, we might say, like, okay, they advocate for all these things, but sometimes that can also exist within, like, those inequalities can also exist within our workplace. So how can we navigate that?

[35:04] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: That's also a really good question. I don't even know how to answer that. I think all you can do, I mean, navigate it as, like, an employee or, like, advocating, or, like, more like, in general.

[35:18] IVONNE DIAZ: I think just like, as we were talking about advocating for ourselves, how can we continue doing that and advocating on our own workplace?

[35:27] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: So, yeah, that's hard. So it's like, you don't want to cross anybody, but I think it's super important to be able to stand up for people in your workplace that, you know, may not be comfortable standing up for themselves or whether they are comfortable or not. Even if they are, maybe they advocate for themselves all the time, then back them up. You know, I think having that sense of community within your own workplace is super important because you're not always going to have a great boss or great employers, or even if you do, like, they're not always going to have great policies. And so it's not only about advocating for yourself, but the work we do is about advocating for your community. That includes your fellow colleagues. I know I work with people that are definitely more shy or more soft spoken than I am, and I'm pretty quiet. But so you can imagine they're definitely more timid than I am, and you see things that make them uncomfortable, and they're not going to fight for themselves. They're never going to tell their boss. They're never going to tell their coworkers. They're never going to do anything about it. So then I think if you can, if you're in the position to do it, you should maybe find a way to tactfully bring up, you know, that scenario to whoever's in charge or just draw attention to it, to maybe the group, so that everybody's aware and you don't have to single anybody out. If you have a shy friend, you don't want to, like, be like, hey, you know, so and so is upset because you did this. Like, you don't have to do it like that. You can be more subtle about it. But I think it's important to find ways to support each other, advocate for each other, even when no one is watching.

[37:01] IVONNE DIAZ: I agree with you. I will say the key word again is community. Like, we watch for ourselves, we advocate for ourselves, but also for our community. Even if there's differences or even if it's not the same issues that you care about. Maybe some people care more about climate justice, or I care more about immigration, but still advocate for each other regardless of different lines or different passions that we have. And I think, just to conclude, I would say, what would you like, or what do you hope to see yourself in the future? What do you see yourself doing? Like, continuing advocating. How do you see yourself in the advocating community?

[37:59] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: That's. I'm not sure. I'm still trying to figure that out. I'm really lucky that I have this job because it pays enough for me to be able to do what I want to do while working on the things I want to work on. But I. This job is also kind of funny because I got it at a really weird time. I was recently in. About a year ago, I was in a really brutal car accident. I fractured my neck and my back, and I was not supposed to live. Obviously, I did. So that's cool. But I did. So this job, this was a really successful job. By the time I was discharged, this was a job that was available, and I took it. And so I took it because I had already been following this organization online, Texas rising. I knew of them for a couple of years. I think I had followed them on Instagram, so I knew of them. And I think it was just kind of by chance, like, one time, I was just like, I wonder if they're hiring. And I went online, I looked at their website, I went to the El Paso chapter, and for some reason, like, at that moment, there was a field organizer position open. So I applied, and I got it, like, a few weeks later. So I'm just really lucky that it panned out that way, and. But I don't know where to go from here. That's something that I've been trying to figure out. I was never so, like, the advocacy, that's always something that was important to me, but I never imagined making a career out of it. But now I'm here, so I'm not sure where I'm going to go with it. But whether or not I make a career out of it, obviously. And organizing is something I feel like I would have to do for the rest of my life.

[39:47] IVONNE DIAZ: That's okay. And I think that's what I was gonna say. And to conclude, I could do this for free. Even though we're talking about it. I could continue doing this for me, for my community, for my friends, for my family. And I think that will go on, both of us. But thank you, Sofía

[40:02] SOFU00EDA VENTMIRE: Thank you, Ivonne

[40:05] IVONNE DIAZ: It.