J. Brian Weller and Sarah Padgett

[00:00] J. BRIAN WELLER: Hi, I'm Brian Weller. I'm here in Ogden, Utah, with my niece, and it is March 13, which is a Sunday in the year 2022.

[00:12] SARAH PAGET: How old are you?

[00:13] J. BRIAN WELLER: I am 86 years old, born in Altoona, Pennsylvania, and here today for this weekend because of the death of a dear, my dearest friend, actual brother, made up brother and his death, and we're celebrating his life. That's why we're here together. And this is very serendipitous chance to spend time with Sarah in this wonderful story concept.

[00:46] SARAH PAGET: Thanks, uncle Brian. So, I'm Sarah Paget. I'm 25 years old. Today is Sunday, March 13, 2022. And like uncle Brian said, I'm here in Ogden, Utah, with Brian Weller, who is my great uncle. And like you said, we're here to remember Poppy, and it's so great to be together as family. And we've been sharing a lot of stories.

[01:10] J. BRIAN WELLER: Oh, indeed.

[01:12] SARAH PAGET: Do you have any stories you want.

[01:13] J. BRIAN WELLER: To share about him? The interesting thing about this whole reunion, because that's what it's turned out to be. It's a celebration of a life, but it's a reunion. And we, every single one of us here, and there have been hundred, say the same thing. We're here to honor a person who wants to be here, who would be here with us in the ideal situation that he prefers. So we feel he's here, and yet I, we're here to say goodbye to him.

[01:46] SARAH PAGET: And I don't know if anyone listening can hear the background of people laughing, but we, we're still at the celebration, and there's been a lot of laughter, and that's been really great because Poppy laughed a lot, and I think it's reminiscent of him.

[02:01] J. BRIAN WELLER: Absolutely. He had a great joy for life. And the nice thing about it is most of us here have seen one another and got to know one another over the years while we were alive. While he was alive, he was a very much of a piece of cement holding us together. He was the patriarch of a very large family, and so we know one another, actually, because of him, a couple of other key ingredients, but he's the tie that binds. And so we're here knowing one another a little bit, but really appreciating one another, even though we're from all parts of the world.

[02:44] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. And so another thing we've been talking about is legacy and our family and generations. And there was a speech that, we don't have to talk about the speech if you don't want to, but about, you know, the generations and how you are, like, you are our leader right now in terms of being who. We don't have to talk about this right now if you don't want.

[03:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, no, I don't mind. The leader word doesn't fit. I don't mind. Let's call it older. I just told someone out there, Sarah, you didn't hear this, but I told two people, I said, do me a favor, and I'm asking you the same thing. The next time we all get together, let's make sure it's not because you're celebrating my life. I want to be here the next time.

[03:33] SARAH PAGET: I would love that.

[03:36] J. BRIAN WELLER: The time after that, maybe it'd be okay, but let's stick together as a family.

[03:41] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[03:42] J. BRIAN WELLER: And I brought up the famous Woody Allen quote when he said, I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to be there when it happens. So I'm not afraid of it. But I want to wait a while because you are so beautiful, and there's so many young people in our family that are just a pleasure to watch them go. So I want to be there for a little longer.

[04:04] SARAH PAGET: Thanks, uncle Brian. And also, I remember, literally, the highlight of my life growing up was our family reunions.

[04:13] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yes.

[04:14] SARAH PAGET: And we had them every two years.

[04:16] J. BRIAN WELLER: Absolutely.

[04:16] SARAH PAGET: We always went somewhere new, and we all came together, and it was so fun. I loved hanging out with my aunts and uncles and my cousins, and we would just laugh and laugh and laugh.

[04:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: So please hear you say that. And then having a record of it.

[04:29] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[04:29] J. BRIAN WELLER: As we have seen, enforces, reinforces the memories and brings back all those little special moments. It's been fabulous.

[04:38] SARAH PAGET: And I think it's only during the pandemic that we haven't had in the last two years. Usually it's every two years it's been.

[04:45] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[04:45] SARAH PAGET: We got too soon.

[04:47] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[04:47] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[04:48] J. BRIAN WELLER: And the nice thing, people are dying, but more people are coming in.

[04:51] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[04:52] J. BRIAN WELLER: Younger people. Yeah. And as I look at you, at you, Sarah, and your siblings and the other people in your age group, your parents and the court parents, and all these parents are soon gonna be grandparents.

[05:08] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. That's crazy.

[05:09] J. BRIAN WELLER: I don't mean tomorrow, but in the, you know, next couple, there's a whole bunch of people under 35 and over 20 who at some point are going to have children. We hope not everybody.

[05:21] SARAH PAGET: Some of us will.

[05:22] J. BRIAN WELLER: And then that means that older generation, which is younger than mine now have the same responsibility that Richard was talking about when he said, this is what families are for. You pass on your values, you pass on your joys and your concerns.

[05:38] SARAH PAGET: Well, let's get to your life story, then. So let's start, like, at the beginning. Do you remember your childhood home?

[05:48] J. BRIAN WELLER: I do. In fact, I looked it up. What's the Google map you can get on the Google map? And I looked up my childhood home, which was 890 Millville Road, Altoona, Pennsylvania, this weekend, because that's where Rick and his sister Judy would come for holidays, or we would go to their house for holidays. So I wanted to see it as it was, because it still is, as it was 70 years ago when I left it.

[06:22] SARAH PAGET: Wow. You went in person?

[06:25] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, I went on the Google maps. My kids have all been there. They've all seen it. Well, in fact, they've all been to the original house when my mother was still there. But that was a long time ago, so it was fun seeing the house and remembering the setting and taking me back home is what it did.

[06:47] SARAH PAGET: Can you describe it?

[06:48] J. BRIAN WELLER: It's a white frame house on Millville Road in Pennsylvania, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, which is central Pennsylvania. It was a railroad town. My grandfather, Joseph White, was a railroad engineer of some note. He was a prominent person in the community, and his son was Joseph White. And my brother Richard is the son of Joseph White. And then he had his sister Judy. So my growing up was separate from Rick's because they lived in a different part of the town. And we went to different grade schools and different junior high schools, but the same high school. But being a year apart, we didn't get. We weren't together that much. We went to separate colleges, but nearby. I was at Penn State, he was at Bucknell, and we were together a little bit, always on holidays. But he and I had a small business adventure while he was in Bucknell and I.

[07:55] SARAH PAGET: What was the business adventure?

[07:57] J. BRIAN WELLER: We were selling fashionable khaki Pantin, a new design of khaki pants, which had a belt thing in the back. It was a slightly different look. So we took a couple dozen of them to buck now and try to sell them.

[08:17] SARAH PAGET: And did you?

[08:18] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, I think we were successful in the fun part of it, maybe not the financial part of it.

[08:24] SARAH PAGET: Gotcha. Well, you and Poppy are both very fun. Um, do you feel like that's something, like you both have such a sense of humor and a sense of jovialness, and do you think that's just something that's part of your upbringing, part of family, because you grew up together?

[08:44] J. BRIAN WELLER: Right, Sarah, that's a fascinating question. Really. I'm serious. It really is. Because my father was a very stern german. German man. I mean, his heritage was germane.

[08:55] SARAH PAGET: I know very little. I don't know about your father, so.

[08:57] J. BRIAN WELLER: I'd love to hear more. He grew up during the depression, had to quit high school in order to support his family, worked at the same place. He was an optician. He was the technical person making glasses, and he worked there his entire life. And during his entire life, he got one week vacation. His Christmas bonus was $100 bill, no pension plan, no hospitalization. Looking back, it's like almost slave labor. Rick's father, Joe, was a lot more entrepreneurial and, well, I don't know how to put it. He didn't work in an office. He worked. He moved around. He was in the book business. But as a group of families, we got together. Uncle Joe, rick's dad. Rick's dad was my mother's brother. And then it was aunt Ruth. It was aunt Ruth, my mother, and Joe. They were the siblings that are our parents. Asked the question about our family connection, and I said my father was a sort of a stern, reserved person. The family, including the three siblings that I mentioned, our parents and aunts, brought a lot out for him because at parties and card games, he became more relaxed. At home, he was sort of quiet, and he'd sit around, drink a beer, and watch tv. There wasn't a lot. There were no books in our house. We didn't have any music record players or anything like that. It was quiet existence. And we did have a. We bought a tv early in life, early in the fan, in the neighborhood, so we were ahead of the game there. But it was the white end of it, including Rick's parents and Aunt Ruth, that brought the socialization into the weller part of the family. So it was a big plus. And that's how Rick and I grew up. We were events, not just holidays, but picnics and just all kind of events. We try to be together, and it went on for years and years and years, you know, all through high school.

[11:23] SARAH PAGET: And you went to high school together, right.

[11:25] J. BRIAN WELLER: Same school. But we weren't classmates.

[11:28] SARAH PAGET: Right. Wait, who's a year older than you?

[11:31] J. BRIAN WELLER: I'm older.

[11:31] SARAH PAGET: Okay. And so.

[11:34] J. BRIAN WELLER: And he was a science. Science type of.

[11:37] SARAH PAGET: Right. I'm looking right now.

[11:39] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Marvelous. And yet not. Not a nerd at all. He was, you know, but I was more in the arts, and I wasn't in an athletic. Neither of us were good enough to be in high school athletics, but we did club stuff, and mine was more music and arts, and his was science. And so our high school paths did nothing cross.

[12:05] SARAH PAGET: So when did you become close? Because I always saw you guys as close.

[12:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, it's a big question, because it was later. And the emphasis in my mind, sir, is the last ten years really where I became conscious? I've been a bachelor for a while. Long time, actually, when you think about it.

[12:29] SARAH PAGET: Well, on and off.

[12:30] J. BRIAN WELLER: On and off. But the last 15 years, I have been. And we both agreed at some event like this, some when we were all together, that he and I need to spend more time together alone. So for the many years we've been, at least a week or long weekend, we would pick a time and just the two of us would go somewhere.

[12:51] SARAH PAGET: I didn't know that.

[12:52] J. BRIAN WELLER: And I always appreciate it. Karen was very cooperative about that. Oh, yeah. We weren't. We were in Mexico. We were in San Diego. We were in a lot of places. And we had plans to be on a few more places, including down to see Richard in his hut on the Baja.

[13:10] SARAH PAGET: Richard Junior.

[13:11] J. BRIAN WELLER: Richard Junior. Which we never got around to. So, to answer your question, we made a conscious effort to spend time together. And during that time, we were no longer cousins. We were brothers. He had no brother. He had a sister, Judy. I was an only child. And we truly became brothers in every sense of the word.

[13:32] SARAH PAGET: I mean, I always saw you as brothers. Well, I think I didn't know, growing up, what everybody's relationship was.

[13:40] J. BRIAN WELLER: It wasn't. It wasn't that level at all. Yeah, not at all. We were friendly.

[13:45] SARAH PAGET: But I also feel like when we would go to reunions, it wasn't ever clear, like, where the Weller family ended.

[13:55] J. BRIAN WELLER: And the white family. So you saw a blend. Yeah, that's the way it should be.

[13:59] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. I didn't feel like I knew exactly, like, who was related, how to who.

[14:04] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[14:05] SARAH PAGET: Until, honestly, very recently.

[14:07] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, that sounds good. Really? Yeah. Because it was a blend of.

[14:10] SARAH PAGET: Totally.

[14:11] J. BRIAN WELLER: He and I had a rivalry.

[14:13] SARAH PAGET: Oh, yeah.

[14:14] J. BRIAN WELLER: And it was all about picnics. Summertime picnics at reunions, and various gatherings about who could eat the most ears of corn.

[14:21] SARAH PAGET: Okay.

[14:22] J. BRIAN WELLER: And for years, I always came in second.

[14:27] SARAH PAGET: And did you ever.

[14:27] J. BRIAN WELLER: Nobody could beat him. Always. I mean, he could eat 13 ears of corn.

[14:32] SARAH PAGET: How. What was his strategy?

[14:34] J. BRIAN WELLER: I don't know. Gluttony, I guess.

[14:36] SARAH PAGET: The only answer was it speed or just.

[14:39] J. BRIAN WELLER: It's dedication. Determination. You know, it wasn't a race.

[14:45] SARAH PAGET: Okay?

[14:45] J. BRIAN WELLER: It was. It was the quantity, not the speed.

[14:49] SARAH PAGET: And how many could you eat?

[14:50] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, I had to quit it, but eight? I mean, how many years of corn can anybody eat?

[14:54] SARAH PAGET: I don't know.

[14:54] J. BRIAN WELLER: I've never had more than one or two. He kept going anyway. I always admired him for that.

[15:01] SARAH PAGET: That's awesome. Do you remember the last time you had a competition?

[15:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: It was a long time ago.

[15:09] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[15:09] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah, we gave up all that. Well, we played tennis together and against one another. And without sounding arrogant, I was usually better. Karen is really good, so if it was doubles, she's very athletic. But he always talked about my better skills at that. But he had so many other skills, hundreds of them superior to mine, that I always appreciated.

[15:40] SARAH PAGET: He was a very skilled man who's. Yeah, really good at so many. Knitting, skiing.

[15:46] J. BRIAN WELLER: Oh, yeah. Culinary.

[15:48] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. Gardening. Making chocolate.

[15:51] J. BRIAN WELLER: I just went out to the garden, Sarah, about an hour ago and plucked a big leak that I'm gonna take home to try to propagate in my California backyard. God, just to carry that through, you know?

[16:06] SARAH PAGET: I love that you did that.

[16:07] J. BRIAN WELLER: Going to take some sourdough home, too.

[16:09] SARAH PAGET: Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. I love that I just walked out.

[16:14] J. BRIAN WELLER: There and said, oh, bring it home.

[16:16] SARAH PAGET: I saw you out in the garden. I thought you were just walking around.

[16:19] J. BRIAN WELLER: You know, I was back there reflecting.

[16:21] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[16:21] J. BRIAN WELLER: But then I saw something I could take home.

[16:24] SARAH PAGET: Yeah, that's a beautiful idea because it continues to grow and cultivate, and that's another thing that's brought me a lot of peace right now, because obviously we've been crying a lot, and we're all so sad that puppy's no longer with us, but he is really with us because I think our family continues to, no question, be really strong and.

[16:43] J. BRIAN WELLER: Very, very good point. Yeah, very strong. And you can't deny a lot of it comes from him. It permeates this whole organization here.

[16:55] SARAH PAGET: Totally.

[16:56] J. BRIAN WELLER: As much as any family I've ever known.

[16:58] SARAH PAGET: Yeah, but it comes from you, too.

[17:00] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, okay, maybe.

[17:04] SARAH PAGET: I mean, it comes from both of you. And, like, we've talked a little bit about the generations, but I always saw you guys, like, up there together, you know, like, you guys good. Like, you know, when you're a little kid, there are people you look up to, you know?

[17:22] J. BRIAN WELLER: Oh, sure.

[17:23] SARAH PAGET: And you guys were the older people, the older generation.

[17:27] J. BRIAN WELLER: Okay.

[17:28] SARAH PAGET: And you guys were always leading the rest of us.

[17:31] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, that's good. So it was more than age in your mind. It was some sort of a leadership. That's very, very nice to hear.

[17:39] SARAH PAGET: And I think that maybe, like, when I was younger, I assumed you were leaders because you guys were the older generation, but it wasn't like your age was what made you the leader, if that makes sense.

[17:52] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, it does in some societies.

[17:54] SARAH PAGET: Right. Yeah.

[17:55] J. BRIAN WELLER: And I'm hoping that's not true.

[17:56] SARAH PAGET: No, I don't think so. Right.

[17:58] J. BRIAN WELLER: Right.

[17:59] SARAH PAGET: So I have a couple questions.

[18:02] J. BRIAN WELLER: Is this what's left? Or is that what.

[18:03] SARAH PAGET: No, we've only been talking for like eight minutes. We have. We have plenty of time left. Well, I guess it's more from before because we paused to say goodbye to some of our family members, but it's fine. So can you tell me about a person who has been really kind to you in your life?

[18:21] J. BRIAN WELLER: Kind?

[18:21] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[18:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: I've never asked that question.

[18:28] SARAH PAGET: It's a hard question.

[18:30] J. BRIAN WELLER: It takes a lot of thought.

[18:31] SARAH PAGET: Yes. That's why I asked you if kindness.

[18:34] J. BRIAN WELLER: Is a special gift. I'm surrounded and immersed in thoughts of Rick, and he has to come to mind as a person who has shown me kindness. He and I have, well, let's put it my perspective. I have revealed more to him than I have to anybody in my life in the last ten years because I just feel so comfortable with him now. To me, that's kindness, that's thoughtfulness. It's, you know, I felt totally free and it worked both ways. But he was a generous listener.

[19:18] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[19:19] J. BRIAN WELLER: Non judgmental.

[19:20] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[19:21] J. BRIAN WELLER: So actually, in spite of the fact that we're here, he seems to be the highlight of the weekend. He's the first, I think of, and.

[19:29] SARAH PAGET: That makes sense to me.

[19:30] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[19:31] SARAH PAGET: Because he really did embody kindness.

[19:33] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[19:34] SARAH PAGET: And that, like, everything from his hobby is like the kindest things you can do. Like he would.

[19:39] J. BRIAN WELLER: Nick, everybody has something that's so precious.

[19:43] SARAH PAGET: And spent weeks, months, like, even years sometimes.

[19:47] J. BRIAN WELLER: That poem I read. Yes. That poem. 180 hours to make a gift for this beautiful woman.

[19:54] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[19:55] J. BRIAN WELLER: That's kindness.

[19:57] SARAH PAGET: Yes.

[19:58] J. BRIAN WELLER: Personify.

[20:00] SARAH PAGET: And then the hours in his garden growing all of this and sharing and sharing. And he shared so much. And he was very good at sharing.

[20:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: Absolutely. That was his goal in life.

[20:10] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. And he was always like, not even just with our family. He was always writing grants and trying to find ways to share his skill.

[20:16] J. BRIAN WELLER: In collecting money for the proper good use. Like the trails here in his work, in the. In the homeless clinic, the medical. It was constant. He did it for years and years and years.

[20:28] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[20:29] J. BRIAN WELLER: That's kindness. But it's kindness at work.

[20:31] SARAH PAGET: Yeah, absolutely.

[20:33] J. BRIAN WELLER: I have a lot of friends and when you ask that question, I'm going through them.

[20:37] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[20:38] J. BRIAN WELLER: Kindness isn't part of it.

[20:40] SARAH PAGET: No.

[20:40] J. BRIAN WELLER: Friendliness.

[20:41] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[20:42] J. BRIAN WELLER: Friendly for sure. Camaraderie, for sure. Kindness doesn't pop up near the top. I mean, we're not talking antagonist.

[20:53] SARAH PAGET: Do you think you're kind?

[20:57] J. BRIAN WELLER: Hope so.

[20:58] SARAH PAGET: I think you're kind.

[20:59] J. BRIAN WELLER: I hope so.

[21:00] SARAH PAGET: What words would you use to describe yourself?

[21:05] J. BRIAN WELLER: You are a good question.

[21:07] SARAH PAGET: Sorry. I know it's really hard one.

[21:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, no, no. Well, no, it's a challenge.

[21:13] SARAH PAGET: I just know you're up for challenges.

[21:15] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, the thing that comes through and being here with your father made me realize that there aren't a whole lot of people like Sean and me who are automatically gregarious, like, by nature.

[21:38] SARAH PAGET: I think you're right.

[21:39] J. BRIAN WELLER: I have to put that, when you ask the definition, I put that near the top because apparently, from what people tell me, it's uncommon.

[21:48] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. You come into a space and you're immediately open and telling jokes and you have some twinkles in your eyes.

[21:55] J. BRIAN WELLER: And to me, it's a plot. I mean, I relish that. I almost think of it sometimes as a gift. It is a gift because one of my daughters said, not challenging me, but just curious, why did you approach that person? And I said, because that person looked like they were just by themselves. And then nothing was going on. And all they did was say hello, you know, nice shoes or weird t shirt, and I left. But I felt, and I hate to put it. It felt like it was a gift. Like a gift.

[22:38] SARAH PAGET: Why do you hate to put it that way?

[22:40] J. BRIAN WELLER: I don't know. It seems pretty, but it was a connection of two humans. And most humans can go through a whole day without them.

[22:51] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[22:51] J. BRIAN WELLER: They can go to the office and they. Nobody even, you know, a touch. They don't even touch.

[22:59] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[22:59] J. BRIAN WELLER: So I don't consider a challenge or a goal. It's just natural. So I've met a lot of nice people that way, and very rarely, this is the key. Very rarely, Sarah, does anyone resent a. That. They might be. They might be neutral, but never resentment. It works the other way. When someone comes up to me, I think, wow, aren't you nice? Like, you, you know, you and your. I mean, you're also loving and you're so giving.

[23:42] SARAH PAGET: But I think this ties back to the leadership thing I was talking about with, like, to me, leadership isn't, you know, I am deciding that this is what we're doing. Like, that's one form, but I think another form is embodying certain traits. And one thing you do is you pull people in, you make people feel comfortable, and you make them feel seen. And that's so important for community. That's what makes people feel connected. That's what brings people together.

[24:10] J. BRIAN WELLER: Right?

[24:10] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[24:11] J. BRIAN WELLER: Right. Very rarely does someone feel threatened.

[24:15] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. Because you're not trying to threaten anybody. You're just trying to bring people in.

[24:19] J. BRIAN WELLER: Right.

[24:20] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[24:20] J. BRIAN WELLER: And apparently I don't travel the world enough, but apparently there's some communities and some countries where the mood is that way. The most friendly country in the world, I forget what it is. Samoa or somewhere in Indonesia. Everybody's just friendly. That's a nature. And nobody gets mad at anybody. You know, I'd like to live there.

[24:43] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. That sounds like a great culture.

[24:44] J. BRIAN WELLER: Where we live now. It's getting worse and worse in terms of polarization.

[24:48] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[24:50] J. BRIAN WELLER: Very sad. So to me, a day to day small connection with anybody is a plus for both of us.

[25:01] SARAH PAGET: Absolutely.

[25:02] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah.

[25:04] SARAH PAGET: So this ties a little bit into this, and you've kind of touched on this, but is there some advice you'd want to give to anybody in future generations listening? Because you've talked a little bit about how people in my generation might start having kids soon. I have a cousin who's getting married soon.

[25:22] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yes.

[25:23] SARAH PAGET: Who knows if they'll have kids. I know, but it's very possible.

[25:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: But, you know, in the next ten years, a lot's going to happen.

[25:28] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[25:29] J. BRIAN WELLER: With your. Your community.

[25:31] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[25:32] J. BRIAN WELLER: I mean, plus a lot of things.

[25:34] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. Do you have any, like, hopes for what will happen?

[25:36] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, hopes is one thing. Advice is entirely.

[25:38] SARAH PAGET: Yeah, you're right. Should we start with hopes?

[25:41] J. BRIAN WELLER: Okay. Yeah, the hopes.

[25:47] SARAH PAGET: We can also save this question for later in the conversation.

[25:49] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, we're onto it right now.

[25:51] SARAH PAGET: Okay.

[25:52] J. BRIAN WELLER: The hope is it's way beyond this family, because to me, this family is. I'm so hopeful and positive about this family and what I see here and the generosity and the intelligence and the thoughtfulness in this family. I'm not worried about them. I'm sure they're going to have somebody go astray. I mean, I'm living with one of them. But my hope is that the world gets more like this family because the world is getting screwed up more and more. And I mean, not just the United States. Too many things are going on, too many other places. And to use a broad term, democracy is losing out around the world. So all I would say to this, you all, is just keep going. What you're going. Don't give up. Hang in there. I just heard Benji say, and I was almost hoping he would say it, that he's interested in the long term in going into politics, really? And I thought, this is what we need, bright, thoughtful young people.

[27:08] SARAH PAGET: And he sure is bright and thoughtful.

[27:10] J. BRIAN WELLER: Like people like you who know what's going on in the world and get around and can speak up and not afraid to speak up, that gives me hope.

[27:21] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. I feel really, really grateful to be part of this family because I do feel so connected to our family and, like, it is a very welcoming space where I just feel comfortable and happy. And I think a lot of people are lonely in the world these days.

[27:46] J. BRIAN WELLER: Indeed.

[27:47] SARAH PAGET: I. And I never feel lonely when I'm with our family or, and I don't feel lonely very often in general, because it's just not really, I was gonna.

[27:56] J. BRIAN WELLER: Say you're not capable of it.

[27:58] SARAH PAGET: I'm sure I'd be capable of it if I were alone. No, but.

[28:01] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, you've been alone a lot. You know that's true. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I consider it. This group is above that. I mean, loneliness, solitude is fine if you're alone. You want to listen to music or readers. Loneliness is, I don't see, as a part of much of what's going on around here, the rest of the world. There's a lot of loneliness.

[28:31] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[28:32] J. BRIAN WELLER: In the big cities, in the. Everywhere you look, loneliness.

[28:36] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[28:38] J. BRIAN WELLER: Among wealthy people, among elite, among.

[28:42] SARAH PAGET: All different.

[28:44] J. BRIAN WELLER: In the. This episode, this pandemic.

[28:47] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[28:48] J. BRIAN WELLER: Increased that radically.

[28:50] SARAH PAGET: Totally. Yeah, that's definitely true. And so I'm thinking we still have a better time left, so I want to ask some other questions, then we can end with advice. How does that sound?

[29:05] J. BRIAN WELLER: I don't have any.

[29:06] SARAH PAGET: You don't have any?

[29:08] J. BRIAN WELLER: I'll work on it.

[29:09] SARAH PAGET: Okay. Well, let's ask some other questions first. So.

[29:14] J. BRIAN WELLER: Hmm.

[29:16] SARAH PAGET: How about, what was your favorite thing to do for fun? Growing up.

[29:22] J. BRIAN WELLER: Growing up.

[29:23] SARAH PAGET: And then after now?

[29:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, if we're talking formative years at home. Growing up, yeah. Sports, neighborhood baseball, football. I was never a teacher. I wasn't athletic enough to play high school sports in a uniform, but we had a basketball league and we had our own uniforms and we played baseball, sandlot baseball and that kind of thing. That's what I remember.

[29:56] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[29:58] J. BRIAN WELLER: In the earlier years, I remember front porch board games, and this was long before any video game, long before anything like that. These are board games.

[30:10] SARAH PAGET: What board games did you play?

[30:12] J. BRIAN WELLER: There was a. There were two special ones. One was, oh, you're testing me. This goes back to my 14 year all star baseball, where you would have a circular disc, paper disc with a player on it, individual player, and you would put that disc and spin it and see where it landed. Single double strikeout. And we had four or five years of summertime serious leagues, just four guys, you know, but playing that. And then it was a football game that. Wish I knew the name of it. Almost called a board game. But it was something. You plugged in something. But you. You put a play in and the other guy put a defensive play in and then you pulled it out and the defense and the offense met.

[31:13] SARAH PAGET: Oh, and so kind of like foosball.

[31:16] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah. Except it was on paper. On a screen.

[31:19] SARAH PAGET: Oh, cool.

[31:20] J. BRIAN WELLER: So the key is pick one that the other guy's gonna. Those. I remember. In addition to the sports. Sports. At that age, 1415. I was extremely shy, bashful, awkward, really. So I'm bringing.

[31:39] SARAH PAGET: So when did you become gregarious?

[31:41] J. BRIAN WELLER: Girls were not a part of that formula until high school.

[31:45] SARAH PAGET: Interesting. Because you later became quite the ladies Mandev.

[31:50] J. BRIAN WELLER: Who told you that?

[31:52] SARAH PAGET: I mean, you've had a lot of girlfriends.

[31:54] J. BRIAN WELLER: I've had a lot of girlfriends. And I've had two wives. And I still have a girlfriend. I have a girlfriend right now. That's true. But here's a story that has never been heard on the air before.

[32:10] SARAH PAGET: Okay, I'm ready.

[32:12] J. BRIAN WELLER: Carol McGurk, who is shedden. We allowed to use names.

[32:16] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[32:16] J. BRIAN WELLER: Carol McGurk was the most beautiful girl in Altoona high school. And she was the head majorette, so.

[32:24] SARAH PAGET: She was class president.

[32:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, that's almost the same thing.

[32:28] SARAH PAGET: Okay.

[32:28] J. BRIAN WELLER: But she was the symbol of everything pure and beautiful about Altoona high school. Small town high school.

[32:38] SARAH PAGET: Okay.

[32:39] J. BRIAN WELLER: And she twirled. You know, did fancy stuff with the twirling. But she was the. Well, one of the cream of the crop, let's say. And one night at a dance where we. We, meaning three or four guys would go and stand in a corner frightened to death to ask anybody. This is Brian Weller speaking. And I'm now 17 or 18. She came over and asked me to dance.

[33:14] SARAH PAGET: So you were cute, even if you were bashful.

[33:17] J. BRIAN WELLER: There was something that she found. Maybe cute was the word. We dated the rest of high school and went to. I went to. She went to my prom and I went to her prom. And she was lovely.

[33:30] SARAH PAGET: Did you love her?

[33:32] J. BRIAN WELLER: That's a tough word.

[33:33] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[33:35] J. BRIAN WELLER: The most amazing thing about that relationship was I still respect this. When I went off to college, she chose not to. And she knew she wouldn't because she didn't want. But she wanted to stay at home with her parents and start a school for majorettes, for twirling, which she did. And it became very successful. And she was a judge all over the country for Majorette stuff. And she said, you're going to college and I'm not, chances are we will fade apart. And I admired her for that.

[34:17] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[34:18] J. BRIAN WELLER: I probably didn't have the guts to recognize that or even, especially say it, but as soon as she said it, I said, no doubt.

[34:27] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[34:29] J. BRIAN WELLER: So. And even in college, I wasn't. I don't. You're bringing up a very important point which is challenging me because I don't know when I changed from dull quiet to whatever I've become. I don't know what I become.

[34:51] SARAH PAGET: Well, I doubt you. Dull.

[34:53] J. BRIAN WELLER: I don't. I don't know what turn. I don't know what to. What that switch was.

[34:56] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[34:57] J. BRIAN WELLER: I really don't.

[34:59] SARAH PAGET: Maybe it was over time.

[35:01] J. BRIAN WELLER: It was pretty gradual, but I'm going to work on that. I'm going to think about that. You've got a very penetrating question.

[35:08] SARAH PAGET: I'm very curious.

[35:09] J. BRIAN WELLER: I am too.

[35:12] SARAH PAGET: So can you share with me some of your happiest memories?

[35:17] J. BRIAN WELLER: Are you talking about distant memories?

[35:20] SARAH PAGET: Any memories? Any happy memories?

[35:34] J. BRIAN WELLER: My happy memories, all since you've asked, all relate to a person, a setting with a person. And it's always been. It hasn't always been a female, but it's always been an early experience or an initial experience where I realize I'm meeting someone that means a lot, either to the world or to me or both, you know?

[36:13] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[36:14] J. BRIAN WELLER: And that doesn't happen very often. It hasn't for me, but. So when I. It wasn't a moment of exaltation, it was a moment of knowing. Aha. This is really nice.

[36:27] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[36:28] J. BRIAN WELLER: Now that's happiness. But it's not like overjoy. It's the kind of happiness to me that lasts. It's not spontaneous. It's nothing fireworks. It's just something really nice. So I'm coming up with, you know, five or six pretty nice ones.

[36:48] SARAH PAGET: Can you tell me about some of them?

[36:59] J. BRIAN WELLER: I guess we're not allowed long silences to think about things.

[37:03] SARAH PAGET: No, it's okay. It doesn't matter.

[37:06] J. BRIAN WELLER: One that's current in my mind was 20 years ago, and it's on my mind because of this weekend. I was divorced and living in Pittsburgh and I went to a art show opening, a gallery opening. A friend invited me and she was the only person I knew there. And it was only like 50, you know, it wasn't a big deal, 40 or 50 people. And I met a woman there who was not standoffish but very careful about strangers. Me talking with strangers and wouldn't even give me, I knew her name, but I wouldn't give me any phone number, anything like that. And so I pursued her. And when I called her, when I finally figured out where she was, her office was at a university where she was a professor because there was another guy doing the same thing I was. And I said, I'm Brian. You won't remember me. I'm one of the two guys. And I said, you don't know which one I am, do you? She said, no. She said, let's figure this out. So we talked a little bit. So when you asked the question, it was serendipitous, but intentional, because I could see, even though casual group, just a glass of wine, looking at art, that there was something there that I had never known before, ever seen before. And the only reason I mentioned today was at this event today, I read a poem that she had written about our dearly beloved Richard. So for ten years, we were together, and it was extremely meaningful to me. We never married. We never lived together. We were together a lot. We traveled a lot. But that comes to mind sort of recent experience and more, I think about it. Most of them do involve women. I have a couple of friends that I still am in touch with, and one guy especially, who's in Manhattan that I travel with. He and I are sort of travel buddies. But with COVID age, the strain of international. We used to go to Europe together and travel around and drink beer and, you know, do stuff, go to museums and with COVID and then the strain of air travel, international travel, we haven't done it for three years and maybe won't again. So he's a guy. That's important. And that was a. That was a not quite serendipitous. We were athletic club members and played squash together. So we got to know one another that way. And his wife cooperates with all this. She says, go ahead, get out of here. So those are two memorable things, people.

[40:57] SARAH PAGET: I'm realizing we're not saying names. And you don't have to if you don't want to.

[41:00] J. BRIAN WELLER: No, I don't want to.

[41:01] SARAH PAGET: Okay.

[41:02] J. BRIAN WELLER: I mean, I could, but I don't see that. No. No worries. No worries.

[41:05] SARAH PAGET: I also am not sure if we said in the beginning that Poppy, who were together in memory of his name, is Richard Sanderson White.

[41:15] J. BRIAN WELLER: You're about to say that. Good. Richard Sanderson White, whom I know is Rick. And when you see some of the early publications and notebooks, he was known as Ricky.

[41:25] SARAH PAGET: Really?

[41:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: Nobody knows that. I mean, Ricky until he was, like, high school. My mother called him Ricky. His mother called him Ricky.

[41:35] SARAH PAGET: Do you have any, like, favorite memories of you guys together when you were younger?

[41:38] J. BRIAN WELLER: I do. I do. And include his sister Judy.

[41:42] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[41:42] J. BRIAN WELLER: One of them was. There were two, and we were quite young, probably 1215. They lived in a village called Sinking Valley, way out of town from Altoona by our standards. Now, it was nearby, but it was like 20 miles, and it seemed like a weekend trip to get out there. It was very rural, and they had a country house. And the memory I have is they had chickens, and we each named our chickens, and I had one called mcnamara. And I forget the others names, but for a couple years, we would talk about our chickens. Is like part of our family cute, the three of us. It was. It was really fun.

[42:24] SARAH PAGET: That's so fun. I love that.

[42:26] J. BRIAN WELLER: Another memory, Sarah, is a whole family would gather at night and play a game called funny Duster. And funny duster is a game that Rick and I spent 20 years searching for to find the origin of it and find a board for it, because all we did playing this game was eight people would laugh continuously for 2 hours.

[42:54] SARAH PAGET: And now you can't find the game.

[42:55] J. BRIAN WELLER: We found it, and it made no sense.

[42:57] SARAH PAGET: Oh, shoot.

[42:58] J. BRIAN WELLER: It was the biggest left out of my life. It was a riot. But anyway, those are two memories I'm going to make. And corn roast, meaning real corn roast and the coals.

[43:11] SARAH PAGET: And that's when you would have your competition.

[43:13] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah. And these are all very isolated to the weller white relationship. We had other relatives, but the weller white with, including Aunt Ruth, who was a white that three brothers, two sisters. We were really a core family. It's like what's developed here, only it's bigger.

[43:43] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[43:44] J. BRIAN WELLER: So a lot of these memories you're asking about are involved in that. That core. And that went from my earliest years all the way through high school on college. Come back for reunions.

[43:58] SARAH PAGET: Yeah. So you guys had family reunions like we do growing up?

[44:02] J. BRIAN WELLER: Big ones. Yeah. And that the white family, Joe White, Ruth White, and Dorothy White were part of the Glenn family, and the Glenn family was a big family. And we had reunions at pavilions in parks around Blair county, and there were 50, 60 people on a Sunday.

[44:30] SARAH PAGET: How often would you do that?

[44:32] J. BRIAN WELLER: Every summer for years and years. And of course, people changed just like here, younger and older, and people died. And the things that Rick and I talked about were which ant brought the apple pie and which aunt brought the escala potatoes, and which uncle played the best cards and who threw the. Who threw the best horseshoes. These are great memories.

[44:58] SARAH PAGET: Yeah, it sounds so fun.

[44:59] J. BRIAN WELLER: It's fun. There's a picture of Rick in one of these books, 1956. So I got out of high school in 53. So he was just entering college, and it show, it says, first pair of Bermuda shorts. And we were so proud to be a part of the, in group of young men wearing Bermuda shorts in those days, because we were out. We were small town kids, you know.

[45:26] SARAH PAGET: And that was, what was, this was.

[45:27] J. BRIAN WELLER: Ivy League stuff, you know?

[45:29] SARAH PAGET: Oh, okay.

[45:30] J. BRIAN WELLER: We didn't know that, but we were there. We were catching up. But to see him and so proud as Bermuda shirts, I really ain't got.

[45:37] SARAH PAGET: A kick out of that. That's funny. And so you also. We also talked a little bit today about serendipity. Are there any moment, like, serendipitous moments that stand out to you as important in your life?

[45:57] J. BRIAN WELLER: The main one, which is economic primarily? I was a director of sales of a small steel company in Aliquipa, Pennsylvania, and I was there for. I'd been in a major corporation, and I got invited to come to this smaller company and be a director of sales, which I relished, because the location where I could live all suited me and the owner. After I was there, it's like six years. Came in one Friday afternoon, about 05:00 p.m. to my office. He said, I don't like what's been going on. I said, what? He said, you haven't been giving me the written report documentation of what you're accomplishing. And I said, tom, I don't remember my exact word. The essence was, Tom. I can. I can accomplish that, but I'm not good at putting it down, and I hate sitting here typing stuff at 630 on a Friday night. He said, you're fired. I'm 50 years old. How can you be fired? I was 55. How can you be fired at age 55?

[47:33] SARAH PAGET: What did you do?

[47:35] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, that moment, to back up my job as sales director was to find sales representatives to sell our steel. And a representative was not an employee. He was a commission salesman. So he would have a territory, and he would sell our product in that territory, and he would commission. No salary, no country club, no expense account. He's totally on his own. Whereas the corporate life, I had salary, country club, expense account, company car hospitalization, the entire opposite. This guy's on his own, living by his wits and his knowledge, but he has a defined territory. And for 10 seconds after he said, you're fired, I said, nope. Here's what's going to happen. I said, I want to be a rep for you in this particular territory. I said it right now. He didn't say a word. He turned around, sir, and went back to his office. And I'm sitting there thinking, is my life over at 55? I'm a bachelor, but I'm paying alimony. He comes back with a contract. You're now a rep, and you have this territory. You work for me. You know the product. I think you're a great salesman. Go, I can't believe it worked.

[49:13] SARAH PAGET: So is that serendipity or is that.

[49:15] J. BRIAN WELLER: Well, what else could it be? Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. But it's, you have to have the background knowledge. Yeah, but, you know, I could have started breaking down, crying.

[49:27] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[49:27] J. BRIAN WELLER: Or argue with them. I think about, I was proud that I came up with that, and it was the best thing I've ever done because I flourished. He was happy. I was happy. I had more independence than I ever had. The money worked out pretty good. So it worked out, but that's the main one, because it was a very life changing thing. Yeah, totally. Life change. I gave up a whole lot.

[50:00] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[50:00] J. BRIAN WELLER: And not, I had no clue how much I was going to make. At age 55, I started collecting Social Security because you can do that ten years early. And I only did it because I had no idea what I'd make three months from now.

[50:16] SARAH PAGET: Right.

[50:16] J. BRIAN WELLER: No idea. So at least get Social Security. You know, you got $900. But it worked. The money worked out okay. But that was a big one.

[50:31] SARAH PAGET: That's amazing. And we're running out of time, but I wanted to ask you before we go, how you would like to be remembered. And obviously we're hoping, or we know, let's just say we know we're gonna have another reunion before, but for, like, long time in the future, people listening, you know.

[50:52] J. BRIAN WELLER: Oh, my. I have a favorite quote, Sarah, and it was something that Kurt Vonnegut wrote. It wasn't in one of his books. It was like an essay. And I can only right now paraphrase it, but it's something like this, with all the emphasis on economics, politics in the world, everything that's going on in the world, everyone is missing the most important thing, and that is those who, hold on, I'm going to get this right. Those who carry a childlike placefulness, playfulness into adulthood versus those who don't. And I've told other people that, and they said, oh, that's. So I said no to me. If you don't have, if you're serious all the time, and if you don't have a childlike playfulness, you're missing the whole point of life. And that's part of this reaching out, this, what do you call it? Yeah, yeah.

[52:31] SARAH PAGET: Connection.

[52:32] J. BRIAN WELLER: Yeah. To me it's almost a religious thing. If you don't, if you're dour, if you're critical and measuring everything, come on. Playfulness not be the right word, but that's what he used. I like it.

[52:53] SARAH PAGET: I like it.

[52:54] J. BRIAN WELLER: So that's my message.

[52:58] SARAH PAGET: I think that's a beautiful message.

[53:00] J. BRIAN WELLER: Thank you.

[53:01] SARAH PAGET: And I'm going to think about that a lot and I can see that even just looking around. And I wanted to thank you so much for recording with me today.

[53:09] J. BRIAN WELLER: I've never had a better time for 40 minutes. You're so special at this. It's great.

[53:14] SARAH PAGET: Thank you. And it was so special to hear all of this.

[53:17] J. BRIAN WELLER: Thank you.

[53:18] SARAH PAGET: Yeah.

[53:19] J. BRIAN WELLER: Cheers. Cheers.