Jack Levine and Alexis Simoneau

[00:01] JACK LEVINE: My name is Jack Levine. I'm 70 years old. Today's date is Friday, December 3rd, 2021. We're in Tallahassee, Florida. I'm being interviewed by my partner in this escapade, Alexis Simoneau, and I am her mentor.

[00:21] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: All right, and my name is Alexis. I am 30 years old. Today's date is Friday, December 3rd, 2021. We're in Tallahassee, Florida. I'm interviewing Jack Levine, and I am his mentee. So, Jack, will you introduce yourself and tell us about your life's work as a social policy advocate?

[00:46] JACK LEVINE: Well, I never introduced myself in the same way twice. So here's a new thought. I am a networker. I really believe that meeting new people and finding out what's important to them and what guides them on their path is my life's mission. In some ways, I translate what I learn from them into my advocacy work. So it feels to me that I'm always seeking new relationships and then building upon the ones I already have.

[01:21] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: All right, and how do you tell us about advocacy and what that means?

[01:29] JACK LEVINE: Well, I was an English teacher for several years, so I always look at the root of a word, and the root of the word advocacy is voca, the voice. The voice simply means to me that that's what you use to advocate. Advocacy is a tradition. Humans like to advocate because they have wants and needs, and they want to make positive change either in their own lives or their family's life or their community's life. So to me, advocacy is a calling. And I've received that calling decade after decade, and that's what I still do. And there's no days off. When you're an advocate, you always have ideas, thoughts that bring people to a new level of awareness. And I'm very, very pleased to be in this role.

[02:21] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: All right, Jack, so what are some examples of what this advocacy looks like? What do you actually do?

[02:28] JACK LEVINE: Well, one thing I do is I stay very, very attuned to what's going on, what the news is, what the problems are, and frankly, what the solutions are. So, for example, just in the last couple of days, I came to learn a whole lot about how grandparents, now that I'm a grandfather, are very nervous about the well being of children. It's not only health concerns, but mental health concerns. And what I mean by being nervous is they have not faced this when they were raising their own children. This degree of violence, this degree of discontent. And what I've learned is that people need to be acknowledged for those earnest concerns and then to Try to feed that into some solution. So this idea that grandparents are worried about their grandchildren is a feeling I have that we need to make some reforms in how we communicate with grandparents about solutions.

[03:35] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Interesting. What are some of the ways that you hear from these grandparents, Jack?

[03:41] JACK LEVINE: Well, I'm out and about, of course, less so these days, but I meet them where they are, sometimes in senior centers, sometimes one on one in being introduced from family members. And I believe in small talk to a certain degree. So I kind of want to know where somebody was from, what they did in their work life, something about their ethnicity, something about their special interests. And then after I get that kind of introduction, I usually pop a question such as, how do you think kids are doing these days? Give me an idea of what you've observed. It could be from the media, from personal reflection. And then I get into these conversations that kind of grow in their importance. And sometimes it's five minutes, sometimes it's 50 minutes, depending on the circumstance. So I'm kind of a collector of stories and try to translate that into my advocacy.

[04:44] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So I know you spend a lot of time on the road, and this year probably looks much different than it did before. But before the pandemic, when you were on the road a lot, how many people like this would you say you interviewed in a given year?

[04:58] JACK LEVINE: Well, there are different environments, of course. I was making between 150 and 200 presentations a year for over 35 years. So that would be in more intimate seminars of a couple of dozen, sometimes on college campuses, sometimes in schools to conference speeches and workshops. So the numbers are big. For me, the numbers are big. However, the importance of those travels is to really get a gauge of the texture and diversity of who out there. And in a state like Florida, where diversity is one of our main calling cards, it's amazing to me that almost every five miles is a different Florida. So I say that not to self aggrandize in terms of my experience, but there are a lot of folks out there whose lives I've touched and who have touched my life, too.

[05:55] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Gotcha. Wow. So let's talk about children's issues. Why are these issues so important to advocate for?

[06:03] JACK LEVINE: Well, I have pretty good data to show that we were all kids once, and the idea that we can start early, even prenatally, in the assistance of children to be successful is fascinating to me. You know, there's a phrase I use, it's not whether we pay, it's when. And that is a kind of a cautionary phrase that I use because at some point, we have to recognize that early prevention is the best medicine. In addition to that, children. Because we have an emotional tie to children and because we see them as not only the cliched future, but the actual future, I feel that we have the obligation and the opportunity to do everything we can to make them safe, healthy, and ready for their own successful future. So to me, kids are so important in every culture, in every creation, that we have to pay more attention to them. And we have great science now that proves that when we do the right thing for the first four or five years of life, usually that lasts a lifetime.

[07:22] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: And who was your biggest influence in following this path to do advocacy for children?

[07:30] JACK LEVINE: Well, who flashes to mind is my biggest influence is my dear departed dad. He had quite a life story. He was born in 1891. My father was 60 when I was born. And he was born in Tsarist Russia, was there for the pogroms. He had to escape the pogroms with his life with his friend. Benny came to the United States as a teenager and the history of the 20th century, really, I learned from him in his midlife, in his mid-50s, he lost his sight. He became blind within 24 hours. Now, I came along seven years later. One way of telling that is some things don't require good vision. So I was a product of an older man who was blind. But the reality was that his blindness turned out to be a great gift to me. It's odd to say that, but because of his blindness, I was conscripted to service, to be his reader, to be his leader in unfamiliar places. I say that influence is important because those gifts have lasted me a lifetime. And he lived to 85. So when my father wanted somebody's opinion, he gave it to them. And his opinion of me is I should become a teacher. That's one of the first messages I ever heard from him is he's always admired teachers and he wanted to raise me to be a teacher. And sure enough, that's what he got. And he even visited my first class when I got my degree and was assigned in the Bronx, York to be an English teacher. So I consistently think of him and the gift to his blindness was to me, really, throughout my life cycle.

[09:25] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I see. And were there any other experiences when you were young that have made a big impact on what you're doing today?

[09:34] JACK LEVINE: Yes. I think of myself as not a strong, physically strong person. I never really saw myself as a super athlete. I never saw myself as being able to achieve mountain climbing or deep sea diving. What I did do, though, is I was sensitive to a couple of kids on my block. I grew up in a beach town called Long Beach, New York. And they needed a buddy. One little boy named Stevie. I remember distinctly. He was the brunt of bully's wrath. Very, very, very scorned for his special needs. We didn't know what was wrong with him, but there was something wrong with him. So I ended up not defending him physically, but I recruited some stronger kids from a couple of blocks away to come and help defend him. I kind of negotiated his protection. I think there was actually a movie by my best buddy or my best brother or something like that. What I'm saying is I think I learned negotiation through understanding that there were some who were kind of weaker than me. And if I was not picked last, I was feeling like they would be the one who would be picked last. And kind of they say, you want to defend others if you have that power. So I learned that from defending not only Stevie, but other kids who had misfortune.

[11:15] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I see, so you kind of going back to also how you said you were a networker. I'm curious if you have any other examples of what that looked like throughout your life.

[11:27] JACK LEVINE: Yes. What I'm super interested in is knowing what folks feel at their heart of hearts when it comes to what's important when they wake up in the morning. I'm kind of inquisitive about that. I want to know if people will share with me. And of course it's a comfort level that, that I tried to achieve is how do they deem it a positive day? What do they want to accomplish? What do they want to do that they haven't done? An example of that very recently happened when I asked a friend of mine, a good friend, which relative has he regretted not being in touch with in the last month or year? Or does he have a long lost relative? And he kind of looked strangely at me and he said, jack, I really haven't thought about that. I said, well, now's your opportunity. If you don't mind, I'd like to know who did you lose touch with that maybe you'll be able to call him or her? What I realized is I was looking right in his eyes, but I was actually looking in the mirror because I was thinking to myself, oh my gosh, I've got some long lost relatives too. So that's an example for me of positive networking, is I made this an opportunity to advise him. But all of a sudden that advice reflected back on something that I needed to do it was kind of a fun game, and I know I did my part in it, and I think he did, too.

[13:02] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So what's a positive day for you?

[13:06] JACK LEVINE: A positive day for me is getting ready for. For the evening rest, knowing that I've made a new relationship, and feeling that that relationship has a potential for the future. You could say I'm actually addicted to relationships, and I don't call it a negative addiction. I want folks to know what's on my mind, and I deeply want to know what's on their minds. I like to collect relationships.

[13:40] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: And how do you like to keep in touch with your friends in your community?

[13:45] JACK LEVINE: Well, technology is not my friend. It's a tool that I'm very, very slow to learn. So usually I try to interact personally, and I also try to, at least twice a month, do an essay on a subject that I think my network would be interested in. So I do send a regular message to my network, and then as soon as I get replies back, and I do get many, sounds a little braggadocio, but I do get many, then I reply back to those replies. So it's basically a chain of responses. And sometimes people write me the most emotionally charged and wonderfully affirming, inspiring replies. Sometimes these replies are very, very deep in terms of their recent misfortune. I'm not a therapist, you know, I don't play that role. I don't want to be accused of being an unlicensed therapist, but I like to be there if people want to communicate with me.

[14:53] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I know you're not on social media, so you do all of this through email. And do you do a lot of phone calls?

[15:01] JACK LEVINE: Yes. Telephone, email, and personal. Those are my top three.

[15:07] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Yeah, I find that really special. I like getting my emails from you, Jack. All right, I want to ask you some more about advocacy.

[15:17] JACK LEVINE: Okay.

[15:17] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So you mentioned that you've done a lot of work with children, and at one point you kind of shifted your focus to other generations. Tell me more about that.

[15:30] JACK LEVINE: Well, as I shared the age of my father, I grew up with a lot of old people. He used to invite his buddies again because he couldn't drive anywhere. He was blind. He used to invite his buddies to our dining room table. We lived on the beach in New York, and they passionately had these phenomenal debates about civil rights and issues of the day. You know, again, I grew up in the early 60s, in the 50s and 60s, when that conversation was very, very rich. And these folks all had political leanings and interest in policy change. So I was Kind of immersed in old people's wisdom and old people's passion. Then I got involved with children's causes by helping to raise my own nephews, my brothers, through three sons. And then I realized there's a magic to the children. So I kind of was in between one to another, went to graduate school for child development. That's where I met Charlotte. But then I realized after about 40 years of the work, that it was time to go back to kind of my roots, which is intergenerational, to try to bridge the relationships between children and elders, not only in families, but in communities. So that's my big banner is together, we are more strong, we are more competent, and we are more successful, rather than being segregated among the ages. So Florida is a perfect place to do this work, of course, because we've got a whole lot of everybody, and we attract a whole lot of diversity. And age diversity is one of those things that I'm very, very passionate about.

[17:11] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So when you talk about connecting the different generations, can you give an example of what that looks like?

[17:18] JACK LEVINE: Well, mentorship is an example. We are connected, you and I, because we met by happenstance at a meeting in Tallahassee. You were looking for a seat, and I had a seat next to me. And I'll never forget the time we met. It's probably been nine years. And I'm guessing that that, to me, personifies what I mean by mentorship. The thing that strikes me the most about separation of the ages is if you don't know somebody, there's no way you get to learn from them or even like them. And we are so segregated because, you know, we all have our different lifestyles. So in a university town like Tallahassee, where I've lived now for 42 years, anytime I get the opportunity to introduce a fresh new face from either FAMU or FSU or any of the other colleges to one of my peers because of a common interest. Usually I do that and then see where that grows from here. I guess, you know, the old cliche of, you know, you plant a seed and see which way it grows. That's what mentorship is for me.

[18:34] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: And you've been working on some interesting projects here in Tallahassee that I. That I've heard of relating to, you know, mentorship and intergenerational work. Can you want to tell us about that?

[18:46] JACK LEVINE: Yeah, we. We are going to be launching very soon something called ours, H O U R S for the asking, Hours for the asking. And that's setting a goal of a million hours. Of volunteer time across the generations, which comes down to mathematically two hours a week or 100 hours a year for 10,000 people. And we're going to declare that as a standard for how our community counts its time together. And I'm going to advocate that be done as much intergenerationally as possible within families. And those volunteer hours can be so diverse as to collecting books and delivering them to preschools, reading those books at preschools, doing oral history with elders, creating a conversation about cuisine and how to prepare ethnic cuisine. I want people to take out their photo albums and narrate their photo albums so that they can be put on a different medium and create family albums for people to give as gifts. You got me started here, sister. There are lots of ways we can connect that do not involve us being spectators. One of my pet peeves is spectatorism, that you watch somebody else do something rather than doing it yourself. And I'm hoping hours for the asking will set the standard for giving of time, which, of course, is mutually beneficial.

[20:18] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I love that. I'm excited to see how that goes. So, you know, you've done a lot of work with advocacy in your. In your career. What is. What are some of the things that you've learned? What does it take to be an effective advocate?

[20:35] JACK LEVINE: Well, advocacy requires somebody to feel that they are being listened to and listened to in a quality way. It may be a cliche, but you can't advocate unless you have a voice. But your voice is not meaningful unless somebody is willing to listen to it. So I try to be the most optimistic guy in the room. I take optimism pills every single morning, and it's a special prescription because it's the time release kind. Every hour, I get another dose. And when you're optimistic, you give people a sense that they, too, can be optimistic. Now the averse happens, too. Pessimism is also contagious. So we got to kind of steer away from, oh, woe is us. Oh, everything is bad. Oh, negative, negative, negative, because people catch that, and unfortunately, it's usually downhill. So the key to effective advocacy, advocacy is optimism. Fresh thoughts, fresh ways to attack a problem and then create a conversation in which people come to an agreement. And it does not have to be partisan. Partisanship may be. One of the problems is people want to disagree with someone because they're of a different political persuasion. And I say, I bet you have more agreements than disagreements if you're willing to talk it through. And again, family issues, to me, are the most nonpartisan opportunity we have in our communities. Because I've never met a person and I know a lot of people who say I don't want children to be safe and I don't want them to be educated and I don't want them to be healthy and I don't want them to be successful. There's no such person that I've ever met. So the question is, how do we give people the tools to reach those goals? And I'm very, very excited about every opportunity to have people understand that moving forward is a lot better than moving backward, especially now that we have so many challenges.

[22:40] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I love being optimistic. Sounds like a good way to approach these things. When I think of advocacy, everyone, I kind of just think of politics and lawmaking and things like that. Is that what we're talking about here?

[22:53] JACK LEVINE: That's a form of advocacy. Advocacy at the core, though, is wanting to make a difference. Now making a difference in a law or a budget is one example. Another example is making a difference by giving of time and giving of talent and a passionate relationship which brings people more closely together. So, I mean, there are lots of definitions of what we can advocate for. To me, the worst place to be is to be passive or to just accept things the way they are. And that's just not my style. And I hope that I could keep other people from falling into that trap. Another example that, you know, just flashed to mind is the creativity that goes into literature. When people write fictional stories and write poetry, to me there is a deep contemplation of what emotion that brings to them to want to express themselves. And I think of advocacy as a kind of a literature. It has characters, it has action, it has scenery. So, I mean, I don't want to be too far fetched here, but my English teacher self comes back when it comes to advocacy. Painting a picture of what could be. That's a very important part of that whole idea of making a difference.

[24:25] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So in your experience, talking to all these groups from throughout the state, and I'm sure beyond what's either a type of population or maybe even a specific person that you've, you've been inspired by when you're trying to encourage them to be advocates.

[24:47] JACK LEVINE: Well, there is something about older women now that I'm on the older side myself, but there's something about older women that has always inspired me to want to learn the multitasking that it requires to be female in our culture. And especially older immigrant women who come to another place, usually not speaking the language or not well at all, usually struggling for economics and finding A way to not only be nurturing in their own household, but to be nurturing in the community. So when I think of people who have always impressed me, wanting to know what it takes to have that kind of culture, courage and commitment to take care of business in a very positive way, I think of older immigrant women, and they have become a substantial part of my network.

[25:57] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So what are some ways that you maybe influence or recruit other people to join you in your work?

[26:09] JACK LEVINE: Well, I try to be as nice as possible. I don't know if I do that consciously or unconsciously, but I want somebody to walk away from a conversation with me saying, you know, that's a pretty nice guy. That is as important to me as the may be thinking, that's a pretty smart guy or that's a pretty aggressive guy, or that's a pretty interesting guy. I want them to feel that there is a reason for meeting me and for me taking an interest in them. I think there's a depth. You know, an organization that comes to mind is one that you're very involved with, the Junior League Community volunteers, who I've been working with for over 40 years in Florida. Almost all the league members I've met, and I've really met literally hundreds of them. They come to a cause because they want to make a difference, a for their own families and then for their communities. And they're very, very creative. Now, I've been hoping for more exceeding diversity among the Junior Leagues, but at the same time, I've worked with other organizations that have been singularly African American. For example, National Congress of Negro Women. So I'm not saying this is about white, black or ethnicity. This is about commitment and the courage to make a difference. And, you know, I'm feeling also that the idea of moving forward with a. With an organization that has a great track record of making positive change. The Junior League actually were one of the four founding organizations of the advocacy group that I headed for 35 years. So, I mean, I know how influential they can be, and that's why I'm a big fan.

[28:04] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: I see. Well, I'm. Let's curious to hear more about your. The people that you've met on your tours. Right. So you've had an opportunity to meet a lot of people and talk about a lot of really important things.

[28:30] JACK LEVINE: Yeah, thanks for coming back to that, because it is always for me about. About people. So I'm also a photographer, a hobbyist photographer, and I capture the moment. Usually if I meet a gentleman who tells me that he's going to go visit a relative of his. And I have time in between lunch and dinner. I say, wow, I'd love to meet who you're going to go see. And I almost always capture the photograph and then send it as a gift again. It's my way of saying, gosh, I want you to remember that moment. But also it gives me a sense of artistic pride in being able to capture that moment. I have taken photographs of children, friends, children that they come back to me 10, 20, 30 and plus years later saying, that photo you captured of my little boy who is now a college graduate, or my little daughter who is now a professional, has a lot of meaning. It's on my home mantle. We made duplicate copies of it. We put it in our Christmas cards. That that to me is a really life affirming relationship building. And I could really, literally, as I'm thinking and speaking, flashing through you know, whole albums of those photographs that are out there. Sometimes I sent them already framed because I just know that if I just send them by email or in a single print, they may get kind of varied. So that's another way I like to give gifts. And by the way, you know, another of my passions, which is cooking and cooking for people for those causes, because you've been my assistant chef on sale several of these dinners. What an amazing feeling it is to be able to feed people some excellent cuisine, maybe something they haven't eaten for a while, and then have a program, a conversation around a dinner table. Sometimes they're meeting each other for the first time. And gosh, I've done almost 70 of these over the last eight to 10 years. And these good cause cuisine dinners is just another example of wanting to bring people together.

[30:48] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: All right, so speaking of people, you talked about the influences that you had when you were younger, and now here we are. At this stage of your life, who do you look up to today? Who inspires you?

[31:08] JACK LEVINE: Well, for the last several years, I've been putting a pretty big investment on foster youth. These are young people who have, through no fault of their own, been removed from their families and put into a system that can be very, very challenging, emotionally and otherwise. So I have affiliated with several different community groups that try to elevate the status of foster youth and get them ready for higher education. Right here in Tallahassee at our three institutions of higher learning, Florida A and M University, Florida State University, and Tallahassee Community College, there are actually organized efforts to coach foster youth as early as age 15 that they too could be college graduates. And I play a role in helping to guide those organizations, not as a professional staffer, but as a friend of the cause. The reason that is so important to me is the data demands it. Only 2% of foster kids go to college. 2%. We have now a wonderful system of Florida where we give free tuition, we provide a living stipend of about $1,200 a month. We provide campus coaching. We have basically created the model in the nation for promoting this opportunity track for foster kids. So when I think of what's pretty new, for all of the work that I've been up to and enjoyed, this is much more tangible. And I get to meet these young people, we have group sessions, and I learn about them, and they learn a little bit about advocacy. So we're going to be launching some very exciting next steps, achievements. And I have met some of these foster youth who have now not only finished college, but finished law school, are on a professional track, and the people who are working with them are not only proud of them, but are motivated to do even more. I mean, we're talking about thousands and thousands of young people whose lives have changed for the better because they're involved in these innovative programs here in Florida.

[33:33] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Amazing. So, what, looking back on your career as well, what. What's something you're most proud of?

[33:45] JACK LEVINE: Well, I feel. I feel that a visit I paid to a horribly abusive institution back in 1979 called the Dozier School for Boys. I was a school teacher at the time for delinquent kids in a community program. And I learned about the rumor, I guess it would be that this was a horrible place. And I went there on my own and actually found evidence of abuse and neglect and came back to Tallahassee. I was 28 years old and started reporting to some influential people what I saw and what I heard when an institution like that, and it's not unique to Florida, but we particularly were bad at putting people in bad places. If they had delinquency, delinquency records. When I think of the courage that it took to make an unannounced visit, the courage that it took for me to come back and report it and not be afraid of ramifications because I was working for the same agency, I could have been fired on the spot. That was not a fear I had. But realizing that once the lawyers got involved, it was out of my hands because it became a celebrated class action lawsuit called Bobby M. Lawsuit. We reformed the system to a great degree, and I'm not taking singular credit for that, but it was My courage to drive over there. It was my courage to smell what I smelled, observe what I saw, and really feel a sense of obligation to make a difference. And bringing upon reform of that institution, which is now happily closed and shuttered, is probably right to the top of the list of what I'll call accomplishment.

[35:50] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So what is next in kind of realizing your vision for families and communities in Florida?

[36:00] JACK LEVINE: Well, I'll be real personal on this one because now that I'm a grandfather, I see the future through my little granddaughter's vision. In their eyes, odds are they're going to way outlive me. And legacy is a very important motivator. When you become a grandparent, you kind of think more often than ever about what you will be remembered. So for me, my next is building legacy for my granddaughters to be very proud and for them to realize that they have a family not only who loves them, but who will invest the necessary time and the necessary other resources to help them be safe and cared for. When I hear them say my grandfather name, which is pop up, it's the greatest music to my ears. When I sit and read their stories at night, when I call their name and they come running, it can't be anything but a kind of a paradise on earth to be with them. So what's next is to solidify that relationship over the years to come and then to convince other grandparents to take that opportunity too because, you know, it's not the easiest thing to invest time, but it certainly pays bountiful dividends. So that's what's next.

[37:28] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So when you're thinking about your grandchildren remembering you, what do you want them to remember?

[37:36] JACK LEVINE: Oh, I just want them to remember being with me, listening to me, reading to them. Depending on the stage of life that they remember best, I want them to remember me cooking their favorite pancake breakfasts. I want them to remember us having just joyful time together without the necessity of too much planning, more spontaneity, going to places that reveal the beauty of nature. There are lots of pictures to that album and I just feel very, very connected to the future when I think of that.

[38:20] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: So we're almost done here, but I am curious, what do you think the 20 year old version of yourself would say to that legacy? How has it changed?

[38:33] JACK LEVINE: Well, you know, of course I can be silly about it and say, who is that bold old guy? It was impossible to predict the future when I was a kid. Again, a lot had to do with the past when I was a kid because of my old dad and learning about his past. So I think the vision for making a difference really started in my young teaching days and in my protest days and the days where you could put enough time in to really learn to make a difference. So, you know, it evolves, and I'm glad. I've always been an activist, and I certainly hope that that's going to continue for as long as I can.

[39:19] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing with me today, Alexis.

[39:25] JACK LEVINE: I just am so attracted to you're wanting to do this with me. It means a lot.

[39:30] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: Of course.

[39:31] JACK LEVINE: Yeah. Because there were even some real fresh thoughts that came through this process. StoryCorps is an amazing mechanism. Thank you.

[39:42] ALEXIS SIMONEAU: You're very welcome.