Jacob Birch and Raurie Birch

[00:02] JACOB BIRCH: I am Jacob Birch. I'm 36 years old. Today is Friday, May 27, 2022. We're in Missoula, Montana, in the public library. I'm going to be interviewing my wife, Raurie

[00:18] RAURIE BIRCH: Hello. My name is Raurie Birch, and I'm 42 years old. Today is Friday, May 27, 2022, and we're in Missoula, Montana. I'm being interviewed by Jacob my husband.

[00:32] JACOB BIRCH: So, part of why I wanted to do this with you, mama, is because I know you are the middle child in a large family, and that sometimes has meant throughout your life that there are moments where you have felt overlooked, and I thought it might be nice to honor you in this way. I was actually talking to Michael this morning about his experience. He did one of these with his wife when their child was six months old, and he was just talking about how wonderful of a snapshot that has been and will be to be able to share with her later in her life, this moment in their lives. So, one of the. As I was going through these questions, there were definitely some that popped out where I was like, I don't know how Raurie would answer this, so I want to start there, if that's right.

[01:31] RAURIE BIRCH: Sure.

[01:32] JACOB BIRCH: Who has been the biggest influence on your life, and what lessons did that person or those people teach you?

[01:40] RAURIE BIRCH: Hmm. I don't know. I mean, the first person that comes to mind is just. Is my daddy.

[01:47] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[01:47] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah. You know, he. Yeah, he had a huge influence on me, and he's been gone now for probably 20 years. Is that right? Maybe not quite 2018 years, and yet still not a day goes by that I don't think about him.

[02:08] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[02:10] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah. I think, you know, he was a very passionate and somewhat mercurial person who was just an absolute die hard father. There was nothing more important to him than his kids, and, you know, he really poured all of himself into raising us on his own. After my mom was not around, and there weren't a lot of single dads, you know, raising five kids where I was from, or really, I don't know if that's something that happens in a lot of places these days. So I don't know that he was always so smooth in what he was doing, but his love and effort and diligence was something that stuck with me so much because I felt so cherished every day of my life with him and, you know, keep him with me every day.

[03:11] JACOB BIRCH: Do you have a favorite story in your relationship with your dad that pops out, or just one you really like? Maybe not the favorite.

[03:24] RAURIE BIRCH: I don't know. I have sort of a memory, I guess, that sort of makes me laugh and cry at the same time. You know, when I was in college, I was really into, like, doing triathlons and doing different races, and I was actually living out here in Montana and went home to Chicago to kind of be with my family for part of the summer. And one of the races I was doing was down in southern Illinois, and so it was on Father's Day, and I took my dad down with me and my brother. So my brother and my dad. And that first year, I did this twice in a row. And the first year, he watched me, and he was sitting on the sidelines with, like, this big old gut and smoking stogies, because that's what was his thing. And I think that it was a real kind of eye opening experience for him to see all of these athletes and to feel the disparity between what all of these other folks were kind of doing and looking like and all of that and himself. He decided that he really wanted to get in shape. And the next year, to make a long story short, he went with me and did it. And so he did the triathlon with me, and it was absolutely grueling for him. Like, grueling to the max.

[04:49] JACOB BIRCH: How old was he at this time?

[04:51] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, gosh, I don't know. My best guess is somewhere right around 50, but he really had not been exercising or being, you know, in shape, that kind of thing. So, anyway, I just remember sitting on the sidelines after having done the race, and my brother and I were just waiting at the finish line, just waiting, you know, for him to take. To turn that corner, hoping he would turn that corner anytime soon. And there were ambulances going out about every ten or 15 minutes because this was, like, you know, June super, super humid. So every time that an ambulance would go out, my brother and I were, like, freaking out, like, oh, my gosh, is he okay? Da da da. And then finally, I would see him turning the corner, and he was about as wrecked as any as a human could possibly be. He was, like, a disaster, and he barely made it over the finish line. And then we just had this, like, the three of us just wept at the finish line. This very proud, emotional, fatigued, amazing moment where we all just shared this beautiful hug. And it was just really neat to see how proud of himself he was for having kind of turned his life around a little bit.

[05:58] JACOB BIRCH: That's so cool.

[05:59] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[06:00] JACOB BIRCH: Did he keep up with it after that, or.

[06:02] RAURIE BIRCH: He did, yeah. Yeah.

[06:03] JACOB BIRCH: Did he run any more triathlons or.

[06:05] RAURIE BIRCH: Do he did do some races after that. Yeah, that was the only one that we did together. I mean, that was a half ironman. So that was a big thing to go from a beer gutted, stogie smoking 50 year old to one year later doing that himself, you know. So he had worked really hard and he had done some smaller races, but I do think that the half Ironman might have been strong to do out of the gate.

[06:28] JACOB BIRCH: Is that one where you do like a, is that half marathon the length of the run? Wow.

[06:32] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[06:33] JACOB BIRCH: That's a big deal.

[06:34] RAURIE BIRCH: It was. It was, it's a big deal for anybody.

[06:37] JACOB BIRCH: For anybody in any shape at any age, I think.

[06:39] RAURIE BIRCH: Exactly.

[06:40] JACOB BIRCH: Much less 50 year old.

[06:41] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, it was hard. Dad bought, it was hard for me, so it was really tough. There was a moment where we passed each other on the, on the track and, you know, I was like, all right, dad, let's go. Woohoo. And he was like, oh, my gosh. Struggle bunny.

[06:58] JACOB BIRCH: Anyway, yeah, that's really fun. Do you. This was one I was curious about. But if you could hold on to particular memories from your life forever, which are there any that come to mind that you just want to lock in a box and cherish forever?

[07:24] RAURIE BIRCH: I think some of my sweetest life memories come from traveling with my brother. Yeah. And, you know, he too, has been gone for 20 years or so, and I still think of those memories often. But, yeah, we had a lot of really fun memories. Fun times traveling together in South America and in Canada and all over the country, all sorts of road trips and kind of misadventures and sleeping in all sorts of different places. And we both were really up for anything and had a lot of wild times together. Yeah.

[08:02] JACOB BIRCH: Did you ever end up broken down on the side of the road on any of those trips due to car troubles?

[08:09] RAURIE BIRCH: Car troubles? I don't know that we actually had car troubles. I do remember spending the night at the border trying to get into Canada, and we couldn't pass through because Burke had a tattoo that he had acquired earlier that year in Ecuador. And so they didn't want him to acquire his work visa because they thought that potentially there was some kind of, you know, disease or something that he could have caught from the needle or something like that. So we had to wait to get clearance from that. But, yeah, so we slept in the back of the suburban that we were driving up there that night, the family suburban.

[08:47] JACOB BIRCH: Was that the one that had the, like, bench seat up front or was that. I remember we were at Donnie's funeral once. Well, the only time it happened, and you were driving some kind of boat like car.

[08:58] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[08:59] JACOB BIRCH: And I sat in the front with you, and we were on the front was a bench seat, which is not.

[09:03] RAURIE BIRCH: Something I seen in a lot of Lincoln town car. That was my grandpa's cardinal.

[09:08] JACOB BIRCH: Oh, okay. Grandpa Bill or Bill.

[09:10] RAURIE BIRCH: Yep.

[09:10] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[09:11] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah. He had recently passed away, and so we had inherited his car that my dad affectionately called that car. The couch.

[09:17] JACOB BIRCH: The couch. It was like a couch. Did you have a nickname growing up, Raurie

[09:25] RAURIE BIRCH: I did. I had a lot of nicknames, yep.

[09:28] JACOB BIRCH: Such as what?

[09:29] RAURIE BIRCH: Well, when I was younger, I went by who bopper or who wee or. Yeah, who my dad. That name was. I guess I didn't speak until I was a little bit older maybe than most. I think I had a little bit of speech delay, but I said who? Who a lot. And so that kind of became my name. But that nickname morphed. And until my dad did pass away many, many years later, he called me bop. That was what he called me. And so I would walk in the house and I'd say, you know, hey, pops. And he'd say, hey, pops. And that was our greeting all the time. But then my, also, my brother that I was just talking of, Burke, he was known for giving people nicknames, and so, gosh, there were so many different nicknames that he gave me over time, and I can't even remember. It started out as north and then Norath and then I. Rats and raits and, oh, my gosh, I wish I could remember all of them. Honestly. I'd have to think a little bit harder to remember all of them, but many, many.

[10:38] JACOB BIRCH: Where did north come from?

[10:40] RAURIE BIRCH: Evolving nicknames. I don't remember where north, but North was my name. My nickname for a lot. Many people in my family called me north for a long time.

[10:48] JACOB BIRCH: Was that like a medicine wheel thing or.

[10:50] RAURIE BIRCH: No, no, nothing to do with that. I don't know where it came from. Maybe I'll have to ask Carly, my sister, where it came from, but I can't remember where it originally came from.

[11:00] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, it's funny. I know that about your family, that you guys are super into nicknames and Burke especially. And I remember being on trips with him and him, like, genuinely struggling to come up with a nickname for me. He eventually suggested that he call me Hota, but then never followed through on it. And I could never decide if that was like, like I never really resolved how I felt about that, I guess, because it was like, you know, there's something warm and affectionate about getting that from Burke. But then there's also something kind of particular and unique about, like, being the outlier for whom he can't come up with that. You know? I couldn't tell if that was, like, a good thing or a bad thing.

[11:46] RAURIE BIRCH: Or, you know, or just. Your name is a stumper. I don't know.

[11:51] JACOB BIRCH: Do you have any nicknames for me?

[11:55] RAURIE BIRCH: Not really. I feel like when we first got together, I tried to do Jacob a la for a long time, but it was weird. Cause, like, your grandpa called you that and I don't know. So, no, I don't really. Other than just love or. Yeah, but I don't like honey, as you know. Yeah, no, I don't. That's kind of interesting.

[12:16] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, that's funny. Okay, I'm gonna go back to my list. Who are some of your favorite relatives? You come from a large irish catholic family. You've got a lot to choose from. Do you have. Do you have favorites in there?

[12:34] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, I have two sides of the family. One side, they're very, very different sides. The big Irish, you know, side where there's lots and lots of cousins on my mom's side. I mean, my uncle Pat certainly comes to mind, who is, you know, actually the person who introduced my parents. He's someone who's very near and dear to me as well as my Aunt Mary and my Aunt Marilyn. And I mean, really, all my aunts and uncles, Aunt Franny, Frankie, Thaddeus. Not as close with my uncle Buzz, but yeah. And then all my cousins, who are so incredibly amazing and wonderful. I love them all so much. I don't know. It'd be hard to choose.

[13:21] JACOB BIRCH: I know you do come from a pretty wonderful family.

[13:26] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah. And also, you know, my Uncle Keith is, you know, my wild. My wild uncle Keith is very near and dear to my heart as well.

[13:39] JACOB BIRCH: Growing up, what were you like as a student? What was your relationship to school like?

[13:45] RAURIE BIRCH: Well, what age are we talking about? Because I went through a lot of different phases, actually, in terms of my kind of identity as a student.

[13:53] JACOB BIRCH: Well, I remember you've told me that, like, academics were not necessarily emphasized in your home growing up.

[13:59] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[13:59] JACOB BIRCH: And I guess I'm curious how in some ways, like, that gives you freedom to kind of choose the kind of student you're gonna be. Right. Like, there's no pressure from parents to be a particular way. I'm curious, you know, obviously it evolved, but what's your inclination as a student? How about we ask that?

[14:19] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, man. I mean, it's just. It's kind of a weird question, as I said, to answer, because it was so different, you know, starting from kind of elementary school and then all through grad school, because I feel like I didn't grow up in a home where there was a lot of structure around, like, academics or anything like that. There was no reading time or folks sitting around the kitchen table doing homework like that kind of a thing. I just. I have zero memories of that. And so it really was the kind of thing that I, when I became even actually an older adolescent, had to sort of figure out who I was going to be and how I was going to do it a little bit more on my own, you know? And so I definitely had bumps kind of along the way until I sort of started to take it more seriously and really own it for myself, which was kind of more in my, like, maybe junior year of high school and then. And then throughout after, I would say my junior year of high school. After that, I was actually a really good student and, you know, was really responsible and got good grades and attended all my classes and did all of that kind of stuff. But, you know, I think, you know, I have some feels about not really kind of being supported in any academic stuff growing up, you know? But I also feel like my parents had many other fish that were frying, so to speak. And I think they, like every parent, they just were doing the best that.

[15:47] JACOB BIRCH: They could, you know, would you have, I guess I'm curious if that was, like, made school a difficult situation or if you were equally uninvested in a way that it didn't totally matter to you. Like, would you have wanted that or.

[16:02] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, I did want that. It did not feel good to feel like I wasn't being successful. It felt really bad, actually, to be kind of like, you know, I can't remember what they called them, but there were, like, these, you know, reports that would come out if you were, like, not doing well. I can't remember what they were called at my high school, for example. And I would always be, like, given multiple ones of those when it was time for those to come out. And that just felt really bad. I felt like this is an area in my life in which I'm kind of failing or really not doing well. And that did not feel good to me at all. It was not like, oh, my parents don't care, then. I don't care. No, not at all. No. It was like, oh, my parents don't care. And that means that I'm nothing like you know, I don't know how to do this, and I don't know how to do it well, and that's not. That's not something I was shooting for. You know, like, I think, you know, I wanted to succeed. I wanted to do well. I wanted to feel good about how I was doing in my own life. And so I think it wasn't until I felt like I had my own wherewithal myself to figure out how to do it that I did it, you know? And then I was kind of like, all right, I'm doing this. And it was hard for me because I didn't really have a lot of, like, you know, rhythms and strategies and things like that to lean on. You know, I was kind of a much more social kid growing up throughout, like, elementary and junior high. Like, that was kind of more my focus. And so long as I could sort of do my work in the classroom, then I was doing fine. But the things when it. When the, you know, academic expectations reached the point that I would have to do more independent work outside and do research projects and things on my own time, I didn't really have the skills or the supports in my home to kind of do those things, but, yeah, as I said, I figured it out eventually, but it was kind of something that I did on my own.

[17:48] JACOB BIRCH: But then you eventually went on to grad school and got your doctorate. Was that something you. When did you know that you wanted to study to become a psychologist?

[18:04] RAURIE BIRCH: I think it was, you know, in my early twenties when I was really kind of examining who I was, what my values were, what the direction I wanted to go in in my life. That that was a decision that became more clear to me. You know, I had actually, when I was in college, I double majored in spanish and political science, so I was not planning on going into that realm, but I was really interested in sort of, you know, people in politics and social work and kind of being a part of, you know, the human wheel, so to speak. And, yeah, but then I really felt like with psychology, it was kind of a cool mix of science and art and interpersonal kind of interaction growth. And I also felt like there was just a lot of human suffering that needed healing and help, and so I wanted to be a part of it.

[19:02] JACOB BIRCH: Are there particular lessons that you've learned through being a psychologist that are meaningful or affect your life in some way?

[19:13] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, my gosh. I don't know. That's a yes. I mean, very much so. I think it's, you know, I think it's hard to, in some ways, separate being, like, probably most people for what they do all day, every day, right. From who they are and how they think about things. So there are many, many things that I think of in those terms as I am plotting along through life. So I don't know what lesson or what. I don't know. That's a really tough one because it's sort of. So it's kind of like everything. You know what I mean?

[19:46] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[19:47] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[19:47] JACOB BIRCH: Does that. I mean, besides, like, kind of shifting your lens and your subjective experience of the people and things around you. Do you. Do you feel like there's any ways in which it's, like, more fundamentally changed your worldview or anything like that?

[20:05] RAURIE BIRCH: Absolutely. Yeah. It has fundamentally changed my worldview, I think. And also just, you know, not just sort of my years in grad school, but, you know, I work in a. I still work in the field. I work in a clinical realm of the academic world. And so I. Yeah, I just, you know, I'm around it all the time, and I'm hearing about it all the time, and I'm thinking in those terms all of the time. So it very much infiltrates just the way I'm thinking about the world. You know? I don't know how it could. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[20:37] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah. I mean, I can say being married to you, it's definitely influenced my worldview, too. I mean, I've learned a lot from you about psychology and definitely, you know, conceive of the world in, I think, different kind of human terms than I might have before. Just kind of thinking about what motivates people and why things are the way they are and how that does or doesn't meet or serve, like, the human condition.

[21:05] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[21:07] JACOB BIRCH: Do you? I know sometimes you're not. You have some amount of ambivalence about your work. Do you, if you had to choose your career right now, starting fresh, would you choose psychology again or would you do something different?

[21:22] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I love what I do in many ways, and I can't, as I said, like, it's so kind of much a part of who I am, how I think about things, my identity, that I think that it would be hard to put that down and just completely do another thing. And yet, you know, I think I have fantasies of doing things that are maybe just more. I don't know. I mean, you know me. I love to travel and, like, be immersed in all sorts of novelty kind of experiences and places I've not been or with people I haven't been or to experience new, new worlds in many ways. And so I think, and I also like to have fun and be lighthearted and to kind of be social and, you know, so I think, like, if. I don't know, I think if I lived in another world, if I had another life or if my life were a little different, I might choose something that was maybe that incorporated those things more. But, you know, I also am a mama of three small kids, so it's not as easy as it once was to get up and go. I mean, before we were together, I traveled 100 times more than I do now and was, you know, a lot more involved in many new and different kinds of things. You know, it's like being sort of in this particular chapter of life where we're a bit more hunkered down with small kids and kind of working on our, you know, work and things like that. It's, you know, but I do. I do think that there will be another chapter of life when things don't look as tethered as they do right now.

[23:06] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, listening to you talk about it now, it feels like life is both so much smaller right now, but also way more intense and difficult even, like, you know, I have not had the same travel lust as you, and, you know, was not. Yeah, I guess I don't have the same ease and comfort of traveling, but I can feel, like, as intimidating as that might be, it kind of pales in comparison to how difficult it is to raise children.

[23:43] RAURIE BIRCH: What is travel? Travel? Yeah. You think traveling is difficult?

[23:48] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, I mean, I find it often uncomfortable. You know, to me, it's kind of scary at times, too, just like, the unknown of a place. And then I feel like a big part of what I've often struggled with, with travel is, like, the why of it, and I feel like many things, there is the well trodden path of, this is what tourists do when they come to this place. And I'm just kind of like, well, that's dumb. That's not boring. Yeah, well, it's just like, you can create an experience. You can manufacture an experience anywhere. There's nothing particular to the place, to me, when it's like, go do the thing. Go to the, you know, the resort and do the thing.

[24:37] RAURIE BIRCH: Well, that's not exactly the type of.

[24:40] JACOB BIRCH: I know, but then I'm like, the. So the alternative is kind of a less well traveled path, and that makes it feel just less accessible to me. Like, the idea of picking up stakes and, like, let's go to Peru. Like, I'm just like, what the, what do they, like, how would I find those experiences that are uniquely peruvian that actually connects me to the place and, like, make this a unique and meaningful and enriching experience and not just doing the thing that people, that Americans do when we go to Peru, you know? Yeah, I don't know. Have you, when you've traveled, have you struggled to find, like, how do you figure that out? How have you?

[25:25] RAURIE BIRCH: I mean, you know, it's very much dependent on kind of where you are and what sort of and who you're with and all of that, you know? Like, I mean, when I was 17, I, after I, right after I graduated high school, I did pick up steaks and I moved to Ecuador, and I was, you know, it was really, really hard. I didn't speak a lick of Spanish. I was this, like, you know, redheaded girl with freckles that everybody, you know, was really un shy about, like, pointing and looking at because, holy cow, I looked really different than everybody. So there was just this profound sense of difference and sense of alien in this place. And that was super hard. You know, I was very, very, very lonely and, you know, eventually, throughout my time there, and I was only there for, like, four months, but, you know, I did actually learn quite a bit of Spanish because I was living with an ecuadorian family and taking spanish classes and, you know, taking salsa classes and, you know, made, made some friends and, you know, sort of made it work. But it was super tough. It was neat to sort of feel like I could eventually get to a place of feeling, like, more successful with kind of just, like, having some people that I was hanging out with and having some fun dancing and learning the language, but it's hard to learn a new language. I don't know. I never really fully got over the sense of being self conscious about my silly accent and saying things in ways that I knew did not sound particularly eloquent or whatever. So, yeah, you know, but then I've also had experiences where I've really just been in, you know, new places that were really a very, very different experience. So, I don't know. I mean, again, like, you could travel those there's, I guess the traveling is so profoundly vast. Like, you could, you know, go to Idaho or you could go to India or you could go down, you know, so who you're going with and where you're going and what you're doing has everything to do with what the experience so it's like that spectrum is just completely enormous. But, yeah, I mean, sometimes they're harder and sometimes they're easier. But it was interesting to me, like, after we had Goldie and we were living in all sorts of different places, you and I, and I was, like, in hogs heaven. That, for me, was like a dream, and for you, it was a nightmare. You hated it. I loved it. Yeah. So, I mean, we've had to kind of figure out how to meet in the middle a little bit on some.

[27:48] JACOB BIRCH: Of that stuff, but I wonder how much of that is, like, you know, I'm just thinking about my own childhood experience of traveling. Like, we did the thing that I find so boring as a family where, like, I think our rhythm in terms of adventuring to new places was like, every couple of years, we take a two week trip to some place and hang out at a resort or do some. Spend a bunch of money to go water skiing for a while. Stuff that's like, really? Did we need to go to Antigua to go water skiing? Like, no. What was your experience traveling, growing up in your family of origin? I know you had the whole road warrior thing, but.

[28:34] RAURIE BIRCH: Well, that was a big part of how we didn't go to foreign countries or anything like that. Growing up little, you know, we had five kids. My mom had five kids in seven years, and we had the van, and we all would throw in three dogs as well. So the seven humans and three dogs would go into the conversion van, and there were three main places that we traveled to all the time, and that was Montana, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania and DC area. Cause that's where my mom's family was located. Florida because my mom was, like, a sun junkie and always wanted to get into the sun in the winter and was willing to do that drive, which was a 24 hours drive that we often did, like, Christmas morning or the morning right after Christmas or whatever. I have a lot of memories of, like, trying to get all the presents in the car as well from Christmas.

[29:23] JACOB BIRCH: So, wait, you're loading five kids, two adults. How many dogs?

[29:28] RAURIE BIRCH: Three.

[29:29] JACOB BIRCH: Three dogs?

[29:30] RAURIE BIRCH: Three dachshunds.

[29:31] JACOB BIRCH: Three dachshunds. A bunch of presents from Christmas. Plus, presumably, whatever luggage you're taking into what kind of a car?

[29:38] RAURIE BIRCH: The conversion van.

[29:39] JACOB BIRCH: The conversion van?

[29:40] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[29:40] JACOB BIRCH: Okay.

[29:42] RAURIE BIRCH: There's a little bed that converts into the back, and then, like, two captain chairs that you can turn forward or back, and then the two front seats.

[29:50] JACOB BIRCH: Gotcha. That is a wild scene.

[29:51] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, again, that was sort of the. That was our family. It was a lot of moving parts all the time, you know, and so. But, yeah, I mean, Montana was like about a 24 hours drive, and Florida was a 24 hours drive. And then where we would go in Pennsylvania, near York, Pennsylvania was twelve hour drive. So those drives were really normal. And that was what we did. We did like, something like that. Basically all those places in ten years or. Sorry, ten years. She's giving me the ten minute warning. Anyway, so, yeah, so that was kind of, you know, again, we didn't, like, travel to four. I mean, as I got a little bit older, like, I have some memories. My mom's best friend went frequently down to Mexico, so I went down there with her a couple times, I think, when I was in like, junior high school.

[30:39] JACOB BIRCH: How long would you stay in one of these places when you would go somewhere?

[30:42] RAURIE BIRCH: Like a week. Like a week? Yeah.

[30:44] JACOB BIRCH: And how often were you hitting the road as a family?

[30:47] RAURIE BIRCH: I mean, I think we went to each of those places every year, so that would, you know, every three or four months maybe. Sometimes we would go for two weeks to York, Pennsylvania, which is where my mom's sib sisters were, and be with all my cousins.

[30:58] JACOB BIRCH: See, we didn't own a car growing up, and I feel like the most adventurous, kind of the most consistent place we went was my grandparents in Connecticut, which was all of a, like a two. Two and a half hour drive. So I don't. I really. Yeah, I don't think traveling was nearly as baked into my family as it sounds like it was to yours.

[31:17] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, yeah, no, it was really, really baked into ours. And we. I mean, some of my most, like, you know, kind of fun and beloved memories are from those trips and traveling. And I have the most, like, kind of vibrant memories, like, of those. Of my childhood, actually, from many of those trips.

[31:33] JACOB BIRCH: Any you care to share?

[31:35] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, gosh, not particularly. I mean, there's just so many. There's nothing that likes, I mean, just, you know, being, like, silly with my siblings. Like 17 hours deep into a road trip in the back of a, like, you know, van. My mom intermittently losing her mind trying to drive while attending to all of us.

[32:01] JACOB BIRCH: Was she doing some of these trips solo, like, without you?

[32:03] RAURIE BIRCH: She did do some solo, for sure. Yep. Yeah, she did. Cause if my dad were, like, working, my dad worked. My mom was a stay at home mom. They had a sort of gendered thing going on from that time period. And so, yeah, like, if, you know, she wanted to go be with her sisters for a couple weeks, he was not joining for that.

[32:21] JACOB BIRCH: For example, did Becky ever come along on some of the. So there would be trips where there was eight people in the van plus three dogs.

[32:31] RAURIE BIRCH: I don't know if we actually did eight people in the van. I'm not sure.

[32:36] JACOB BIRCH: Okay.

[32:36] RAURIE BIRCH: I don't know if we. I can't remember how we worked Becky into that because I don't know if we could have worked Becky at eight people. I don't know. It's very possible we did. I'd have to consult with Becky.

[32:47] JACOB BIRCH: I love hearing about your mother's road tripping style. Do you mind just describing that for.

[32:55] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, I mean, I think because there was just so much kind of chaos within the car, the goal was to get there the quickest as possible, come hell or high water. And so, you know, we would pee in cups, we would poop in bags, we would, you know, there was no stopping for anything, you know, and then when you had. When we stopped to fill up the gas, you know, if it was like, 08:02 she'd be like, if you're not back by 810, you know, from the inside, getting, like, whatever, treats and going to the bathroom, then I'm leaving without you. And so we would be like, ah. And, like, run inside and do the things that we needed to get, make sure that we were back in the car at that time or else we were being left and, like, you know, Nebraska or wherever we were. And so, yeah, so she was hardcore about it. And I'm still like that to this day just because I do find it annoying. Like, you're like, all right, cool. We're gonna go on, like, an eight hour road trip, and you get there, like, 14 hours later. It's just annoying. So I'm kind of like, let's just do this. Let's get this. Let's just get this over with. You know, I'm not a person who likes to, like, dilly dally on the road and, like, stop at, like, all these wonderful gas stations. No, thank you. I don't need to stop.

[34:01] JACOB BIRCH: Right? There are a lot of wonderful gas stations in America.

[34:05] RAURIE BIRCH: I know, you're right. I should take my time more.

[34:07] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, you gotta appreciate those.

[34:08] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[34:09] JACOB BIRCH: So. But your mom had, like, a particular driving style as well.

[34:12] RAURIE BIRCH: Can you talk about that? Oh, well, she smoked about three packs of cigarettes a day, and so she just would chain smoke. And she was very her flex, her body was incredibly flexible. Whenever she was just occupying a space, her leg was up on tables or, you know, like, if she were in the car, her right foot would be on the pedal or the gas, and then her left foot would be up on the dash. So she took her foot all kind of near the window. And oftentimes she had a large cup of coffee as well, or a bozy drink.

[34:45] JACOB BIRCH: Do you know if she had rules? She followed about, oh, I'm only gonna drive five over. I'm only gonna drive ten over.

[34:53] RAURIE BIRCH: She was a very fast driver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything was all with my mom was all about, how can you, you know, kind of get it, go as fast as you can, but with not skirting, with not getting a ticket. So we had, like, what are those things called? Like, those radar. You know, like the police. I know what you're saying about.

[35:10] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[35:10] RAURIE BIRCH: Where you'd, like, pass a cop or they'd notice a cop. Yeah. Every road trip, we always had that. And then as soon as, like, you know, it'd be like, she'd be like, oh, shit. You know, and, like, slam on the brakes or whatever. But it was always that feel with her of, like, trying to kind of skirt rules and stuff. She wasn't particularly a rule following kind of person.

[35:29] JACOB BIRCH: Did you guys ever get tickets on these road trips?

[35:31] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, yeah. Yes, for sure.

[35:33] JACOB BIRCH: So the police scanner thing, didn't. It wasn't foolproof?

[35:36] RAURIE BIRCH: No, it was not foolproof.

[35:40] JACOB BIRCH: Let's shift for a minute. I'd love to hear you describe what it was like the first time you saw Goldie.

[35:52] RAURIE BIRCH: I mean, gosh, that was an amazing, life changing, powerful moment. Goldie is our oldest daughter. She's just turned seven. Yeah, it was kind of a darkish room, and she was just the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen, you know? And her face was so red. And she also had this, like. Do you remember she had, like, this bit of blood still on her face that they didn't quite wipe off for, like, the whole time. Oh, gosh. They put that terrible bow hat on from the hospital with this huge bow. Do you remember that? It was like, you know, eight inches. It was like, with her four inches wide little face. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so silly. But, no, I mean, she just was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. I loved meeting her for the first time.

[36:45] JACOB BIRCH: I remember. Was her midwife's name Elizabeth? Yeah, I remember her just. You were so into her cheerleading and that final. That final push. It was. She was really emphasized how much you were going to. It was just like, pooping and you were just gonna poop Goldie out.

[37:03] RAURIE BIRCH: You have. You have said this memory many many, many times, like, when you describe the birth, you go to this. I do. That is not like a central part of my memory, but you can hold on to that for you. But it's.

[37:16] JACOB BIRCH: I know she was just like. Because just how enthusiastic she was about, like, you got this roared, you're gonna poop that baby out. You're just gonna poop this baby out. And then, you know, Goldie started crowning and she was like, get ready, like, you're almost there. And he pushed her out. And, you know, beforehand she had asked if we had a name picked out yet, but we hadn't settled on Goldie yet. But she was like, all right, get ready to meet your new baby. It was such an exciting thing.

[37:43] RAURIE BIRCH: It was so exciting. Yeah, it was so exciting. You know, I. It was. My sister Mariah had three births that I was there for, so it was. That was actually really kind of helpful, you know, for me because I was able to sort of be a part of that intensity and really kind of had a sense of what it would mean to be in that room in that moment and just how fucking hard you have to push. You have to go for it, you know, you cannot. You can't just give it a little, oh, like, nope. You gotta go for it with your whole being and body and so, yeah, so that was, I just remember, like, you know, yeah, when she said go, it was go.

[38:28] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah, yeah, you had that one. Because I remember you, things kind of seemed like they were moving at a normal pace, but, you know, at a normal, slow birth progression pace. And then you had just that one massive contraction and you went in a very short period of time, like 15 minutes or something. Maybe I'm making that up. But you went from being 5 cm dilated to nine and a half centimeters dilated.

[38:53] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, I remember. Yeah.

[38:55] JACOB BIRCH: Like, almost passed out.

[38:56] RAURIE BIRCH: I know. She had to put a big, huge ice thing on my head because I was like, oh, my gosh, I. I feel like I'm gonna die. You kinda do feel like you're gonna die.

[39:07] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah. Well, I remember with Damian, you actually told me you wanted to die. Like, I just wanna die right now.

[39:15] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, you come pretty close. One isn't sure which direction to go.

[39:21] JACOB BIRCH: What have you learned about yourself being a parent?

[39:24] RAURIE BIRCH: I think we have to wrap up. She already gave her two minutes.

[39:26] JACOB BIRCH: Oh, okay.

[39:27] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah.

[39:28] JACOB BIRCH: Well, do you have a concise answer to that?

[39:30] RAURIE BIRCH: No, I don't. I don't have a concise one. That's a whole other interview.

[39:37] JACOB BIRCH: Well, this is fun, Mama.

[39:38] RAURIE BIRCH: Yeah, thanks.

[39:40] JACOB BIRCH: I did learn some things about you.

[39:41] RAURIE BIRCH: Did you?

[39:42] JACOB BIRCH: Yeah.

[39:42] RAURIE BIRCH: Oh, interesting. I'm curious to hear later what they were.

[39:45] JACOB BIRCH: Maybe just filling in details, too. Getting a better sense of what your family looked like.

[39:52] RAURIE BIRCH: Lot of beings and chaos and love and chaos and all the things. But. Anyway, well, thank you. And we'll do our minute of our few minutes of being quiet. Bye.