Jacob Tate and Carson Pursifull

[00:07] JACOB TATE: My name is Jacob Tate. I am 30 years old, and today's date is April 21, 2022. I am in Washington, DC, and the name of my interview partner is Carson Pursifull my husband.

[00:21] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yes. And I am Carson Pursifull I am currently 27 years old, also on April 21 in Washington, DC, with my husband, Jacob T. So, Jacob, can you just tell me, you're in the Navy, but what is it that you do in the Navy?

[00:44] JACOB TATE: So, I've been in the Navy since 2011, and what I do is, I guess the name of it is a yeomanous. Each enlisted person in the Navy has what's called a rate. And so that rate is what your job is. And so my job as a yeoman is I do a lot of administrative proceedings for the Navy. I deal with a lot of correspondence and just various issues. So think of the yeoman rate as your friendly HR office.

[01:16] CARSON PURSIFULL: I'm like, what is a yeoman? That's what I want to know.

[01:20] JACOB TATE: You said, what is a what?

[01:21] CARSON PURSIFULL: What is a yeoman? Like, what does that even mean? Like, do you know where it comes from?

[01:26] JACOB TATE: I have no idea where it even comes from, to be honest. I haven't done the research on it. But that's the rate. It's one of the oldest rates in the navy, with the oldest, I think, rate in the navy is Bosun's mate. But I know that yeoman's been around for a little bit. Actually, a lot of women were yeomen during both world wars, and so it's been around for a minute.

[01:52] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. You know, my grandfather was in the navy.

[01:55] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[01:55] CARSON PURSIFULL: And when I told them that you were a yeoman, he said, oh, you know, they're the people who you have to be best friends with.

[02:01] JACOB TATE: Oh, absolutely.

[02:02] CARSON PURSIFULL: He said, they're the ones that control whether your leave gets counted or not.

[02:08] JACOB TATE: It might find its way to the shredder. Who knows?

[02:11] CARSON PURSIFULL: I'm sure that computers have made that a little bit harder.

[02:15] JACOB TATE: Will not confirm nor deny.

[02:18] CARSON PURSIFULL: So what made you decide to join the military? And did you know that you wanted to go into the navy? Or, like, was it just the military? Like, what?

[02:28] JACOB TATE: So I did JROTC in high school without even thinking that one day I joined the military at all. But what made me join the navy itself was, I know my grandfather was in the Navy, and I know since him, we had not had any other member of the family join the service. And I'm from Arkansas, and, you know, in my opinion, there's really not a ton to do. And as far as diversity and wanting to get out and see more and do more. I couldn't accomplish those dreams while staying in Arkansas, so it was time to go.

[03:08] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. And when you joined the Navy, you were in the reserves first, right?

[03:16] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[03:17] CARSON PURSIFULL: And you were in college at the time, right?

[03:19] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[03:19] CARSON PURSIFULL: So, like, what made you think, like, as a college student, like, I'm gonna go join the reserves. Like, what year were you in college?

[03:28] JACOB TATE: It wasn't my sophomore year in college, and I think I was just really burnt out from school altogether. And so that was sort of also a driving factor of, I can go join the reserves, get away for a little bit, and then I'll come back and finish up what I started. And so that's ultimately sort of what I've been doing, and it sort of brought me now, like, I'm still finishing school, but I feel like taking that time for myself really helped me figure out who I was. I was able to figure out some things about myself and make peace with a lot of things and sort of thrive from there.

[04:14] CARSON PURSIFULL: So how long were you in the reserves while being in college?

[04:19] JACOB TATE: Only about a year and a half.

[04:21] CARSON PURSIFULL: Oh, okay.

[04:21] JACOB TATE: Yeah, only about a year and a half.

[04:25] CARSON PURSIFULL: So when did you decide that you wanted to go active duty?

[04:30] JACOB TATE: So I went active duty while I was stationed in Florida. Actually, I was stationed in Tampa. I was on as a reservist. As a reservist. What's called active duty for special work orders, ADSW. And that's sort of something that allows reservists to take active duty orders, but they're still in a reserve billet, and you're still technically a reservist. Right. And so I had been on those, what was supposed to be initially just one year.

[05:01] CARSON PURSIFULL: And were you in college while doing this?

[05:04] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[05:05] CARSON PURSIFULL: So did you take, like, a leave of absence?

[05:07] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[05:07] CARSON PURSIFULL: Okay.

[05:08] JACOB TATE: And that's what ended up happening. And so I did the, I fulfilled the one year orders there, but then they were like, you want to stick around and, you know, do it again? And I was like, yeah, actually. And that's how I ended up doing three years in Tampa, Florida, just because I was really having a good time. And the command that I was at was a very interesting place to be. I was learning a lot, and I was working with other branches of the military, and I was making great friends and just really had all of these great memories, so I didn't want to go. And so.

[05:42] CARSON PURSIFULL: And you got weekends on the beach.

[05:44] JACOB TATE: And weekends on the beach. You can't beat that. And so that's pretty much how I ended up on active duty, because after all of that, you know, after those orders were over, I said, well, I might as well go active duty now. Like, you know, all of my friends, my active duty friends that I had made there were all starting to transfer, and, you know, I was like, you know, wait, wait. Don't leave. And it was the fomo, I guess, the fear of missing out. So routed all the paperwork and got approved to go active duty. And that's when I went to my first ship.

[06:20] CARSON PURSIFULL: And I know that going to the George Washington, your first ship, was not an easy time.

[06:27] JACOB TATE: No, no.

[06:29] CARSON PURSIFULL: But do you have any regrets going active duty?

[06:33] JACOB TATE: I don't think I have any regrets with going active duty. It's, you know, depending on where you are and the type of leadership you have, you know, it's gonna be hard work. You know, even if you've got the best leadership or you've got the best chain of command, doing your job is still going to be hard work most times. And I don't regret it. I don't regret it because ultimately, yeah, I probably could have stayed in Florida and, you know, lived my best life there, or I could have gone back to Arkansas, but, I mean, I think that just would have made me a bit unhappy, but I could have done either of those and still probably have been fine. I enjoyed this route because this was more challenging and allowed me to push myself a bit more, to continue to get out of my comfort zone, to still be open to moving new places every few years and just seeing things outside of Arkansas.

[07:34] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. And, like, what's that like, you know, basically uprooting your life every couple of years.

[07:41] JACOB TATE: It's pretty. It's pretty fun, actually. It's sort of like the first time I did it, it was just this whole lesson, and, well, I can't get complacent or comfortable really anywhere, because by the time I do, it's time to go again, and it definitely keeps you on your toes. And I think for me, I've learned sort of to just let go of certain things because you can't control everything. Right? Like, sometimes you can't control when the Navy's gonna send you somewhere. You just have to be flexible. And I think my biggest accomplishment with being in the military and being active duty was just really learning to sort of adapt to more of a go with the flow type of type of demeanor.

[08:32] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. I haven't done a PCs with you yet, but I have to admit I'm kind of excited for it.

[08:38] JACOB TATE: Yeah, it'll be a great. You hate moving as well. So, like, it's gonna be fun. Like, they'll come and they'll pack everything up. They'll absolutely break something, and we'll get reimbursed for it. But a pretty. It's a pretty good time.

[08:53] CARSON PURSIFULL: It's my dream. Someone else moves Pam, I get to live somewhere new.

[08:56] JACOB TATE: Somebody else moves you. In fact, I might even send you out of the house that day.

[09:01] CARSON PURSIFULL: I'll be at work. So when you decided to join the Navy, it was back before don't ask, don't tell was repealed, and so, I guess. Did you know that you were gay at that point?

[09:20] JACOB TATE: Oh, absolutely. Were you out to a few people.

[09:24] CARSON PURSIFULL: So what was it like? You know, basically deciding to take a job where you had to go back in the closet?

[09:31] JACOB TATE: That was. I don't really know. Not a lot of people really questioned it. I mean, I think you would use the phrase straight passing, and so, I guess, relatively easy. And I just really didn't talk about, you know, my life outside of the Navy to a lot of people. And, I mean, a couple of people in my unit knew, but, like, they were cool. And so, yeah, I really wouldn't say it was much of. Much of a challenge for me. And so, because I was only in for maybe about six or seven months before the actual repeal of don't ask, don't tell was enacted.

[10:22] CARSON PURSIFULL: Hmm. So, like, I guess when you were active duty or, you know, doing whatever, and don't ask, don't tell was still in place, even though it was a short time, were you, like, dating.

[10:36] JACOB TATE: Or.

[10:37] CARSON PURSIFULL: Seeing guys in any capacity?

[10:40] JACOB TATE: I mean, and maybe, like, a pretty shady capacity, but, like, I mean, that's a capacity.

[10:47] CARSON PURSIFULL: And, I don't know, I just feel like if I were in a situation where my job said that if I were gay, I would get kicked out and be unemployed. Oh, and by the way, I'm living somewhere through work. Like, I don't know, I feel like I'd be really scared.

[11:04] JACOB TATE: So by the time. I think our timeline might be a bit off, but by the time I was in Florida, the repeal of don't ask, don't tell it already.

[11:12] CARSON PURSIFULL: That makes sense.

[11:14] JACOB TATE: And so. And I want to say I came out publicly in 2013. 2013? Yeah. Yeah, it was 2013, and by that time, I was already in Florida. And, yeah, at that time, dating boys.

[11:31] CARSON PURSIFULL: So being in the Navy after Jonas don't tell, what's it like being, like, a queer person in the navy? The military in general, just feels like such a straight and narrow place.

[11:48] JACOB TATE: Yeah, it's been definitely an interesting space to navigate, especially as I sort of climb through the ranks myself, because not only as a black man, a gay black man serving in the military, you know, it's had its share of microaggressions, from things such as my hair to who I'm going out with this weekend. But I've sort of learned to, I guess, cope with it, navigate around or sometimes even directly address that problem head on, depending on who the person is or where I am and what I can do about it. And I think that the most important thing for me to do as a gay black man in the military is to speak. And I think that's been, you know, ever really since coming out publicly and the repeal of don't ask, don't tell. I've always enjoyed speaking on my experiences because truly, you know, those and those who were currently serving, you know, to include myself, were really the first, I guess, batch of folks to sort of, you know, still be on that line to where you may have joined the military and been, you know, when it been before the repeal of don't ask, don't tell to being in even afterwards and sort of seeing how the military is adjusting to having not only gay and bisexual people, but trans people. And I just feel that it's important to speak on injustices that I might see in the military, whether that be to leadership or to my mentors or anybody. So.

[13:49] CARSON PURSIFULL: And what do you think the biggest challenge you face, like, related to your identity in the military is?

[13:58] JACOB TATE: The biggest challenge I face is, I would guess it would be being an individual, still being an individual. I think a lot of people associate the military with us all being the same. You know, there's the running joke, oh, you belong to the government, you know. Oh, you're government property. No, at the end of the day, I am Jake Tate. Before I'm a sailor, you know, I'm a husband, I'm a brother, I'm someone's son, like. So I think that that's probably been my biggest struggle is I have to remember that at the end of the day, I'm an individual, and so I got to do what's best for me. I've got to do what's best for me. Well, yes, obviously still doing what's best for the mission and what's best for the service. I don't ever want to ever come across as if I don't want the best for the Navy or I don't want the best for my unit. But I think a lot of people take too much pride in being exactly what the military wants, you know, and the military is doing a much better job of trying to diversify, but it's still very much a straight, white, male organization. I'm not gonna sugarcoat that.

[15:25] CARSON PURSIFULL: So being a black gay man is not a walk in the park.

[15:29] JACOB TATE: Not a walk in the park, but I'll make it look cute.

[15:34] CARSON PURSIFULL: And so I know that you identify as cisgender, but, like, you were active duty through the Trump presidency and everything that happened with disallowing trans people from joining. And then after realowing, and what was it like seeing that on the inside, like, other queer people being so, I don't know, victimized, like, and excluded?

[16:04] JACOB TATE: It was hard to see. It really was just because I personally knew a couple of trans service members, and, you know, they were very much proud of their service, just as, you know, as I was. But then being told that they couldn't have, that they could no longer serve, or that new entrants, trans individuals who wanted to join, could no longer join, it was hard. It was hard to look at that and sort of feel powerless, right? Because, I mean, that came from the president of the United States. So at that point, what does writing your congressman or congresswoman do when it's something that's coming from, you know, the head of the snake?

[16:57] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. Did you ever think at any point in your service that you just couldn't do it anymore?

[17:05] JACOB TATE: No, I don't think I've been there yet. And hopefully I never am. Right? I think resiliency has definitely been. Been the word that I just have to keep practicing. It's just resiliency, you know, if not day, then, you know, if not today, then tomorrow. Tomorrow's always a new day. You know, today may have sucked. It may have been, you know, pretty awful, but, you know, God willing, I get to go to sleep and wake up and try it all again.

[17:42] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. Since joining the military, how did your family feel? Like, I know that you have a very tight knit family.

[17:55] JACOB TATE: Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, being the youngest of three, I remember telling my parents, and I think they took me seriously. I think they took me seriously. I think they just did not underestimate how fast. I think they underestimated how fast the process would go of me actually signing up to do it, because I vaguely remembered telling them.

[18:22] CARSON PURSIFULL: And then you're saying that you were maybe impulsive about this.

[18:26] JACOB TATE: No, not me, not ever. And maybe two weeks later, I was like, all right, I'm going to boot camp in July. I will see you all on the flip side. And then being like, what? Because the process of it all just happened so quickly. But they've been my biggest supporters, so definitely my biggest fans. My parents, my siblings, I can't really thank them enough. And so, you know, they watched my dog while I was at boot camp.

[19:05] CARSON PURSIFULL: I don't know, do you ever feel like it's hard to explain things or like, there are things that, like, it's just hard to explain to folks that aren't in the military? Like, things about military life?

[19:17] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[19:18] CARSON PURSIFULL: And what's that feel like?

[19:22] JACOB TATE: I feel like sometimes it's sort of like, oh, we live in two different societies. And I get it. It's not like that. But I guess the way the military works is like, one. There's acronyms for everything, right? Like, acronyms for everything. But then you have to remember, you can't just, you know, say PCs to somebody randomly on the street and they know what you're talking about. And, like, same with my parents, which, I mean, they know what PCs means now, but, like, they didn't always know what pcsing was. Just like, I'm sure you didn't always know what pcsing was. And so it's sort of just having to, I guess I don't, for the.

[20:01] CARSON PURSIFULL: Record, that's a permanent change of station, as I have now learned.

[20:05] JACOB TATE: Yes. And I guess it doesn't make me feel, I guess, any type of certain type of way. It more so just reminds me that not everybody is doing what I'm doing, and I have to sort of be understanding of the fact that I might need to explain some things. And even if it's hard for me to explain, I need to try to do my best to do that.

[20:34] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. And, oh, I just lost what I was gonna ask you. I just, I think about, you talk about wanting to maintain such a strong individual identity, but being in something that is defined by togetherness and essential identity and so what was it like dating, maintaining those two very different things? Like, did you ever date other service members? Like, was that easier?

[21:11] JACOB TATE: Absolutely not. I never have. It's never really been my, it's never really been my thing. I've never tried it. And so I get it. Like, in one breath, you would probably say, well, then you can't say it's not your thing. But I would never, please, I don't like to. I guess that would be mixing business with pleasure, and it's just one of my personal no no's of, I wouldn't want to do that. And then, like, say, for example, I was dating somebody in the air force. I'm in the Navy. So what do we do when we're not married? Right. We're just in a long term relationship. So what do I do when the air force wants to send him to Nebraska and they want to send me to, you know, and the Navy wants to send me to San Diego or somewhere overseas? And so, granted, if you're. If you're married to someone who's in the military and you're also in the military, they try to station you guys close together within a certain, you know, mileage radius. But, I mean, I've seen some cases to where that doesn't always happen. And so I wouldn't want. I wouldn't want that. And so. And I feel like also being in the military, you sort of come with your, I think over time, each service member sort of gets a little bit of emotional baggage that sort of goes with transferring. And, you know, if you've lost any friends, you know, due to suicide or, you know, a conflict or a training accident or anything like that, all of that sort of, you know, builds up. And so while, granted, we've got great resources such as therapy and everything like that, I feel like that would just be really, really, really hard to navigate for two service members dating. Like, granted, they would understand each other very much, but I just don't think it would work well for me. Not to say it doesn't work extremely well for other people. It just probably wouldn't be me.

[23:21] CARSON PURSIFULL: So then on the flip side, what's it like dating a civilian who doesn't know anything about the military world?

[23:28] JACOB TATE: It's fun because I get to explain it all. And, like, I remember when we first started dating. Like, you're a naturally inquisitive person, so it was fun to answer all of your questions that you had. I thought it was actually really cute that you had such an interest.

[23:46] CARSON PURSIFULL: Don't worry. Those were only the questions that Google couldn't answer.

[23:49] JACOB TATE: I believe that. And, I don't know. I like it. I like being able to come home and us not have really half the same day. Right. Because, you know, I'll go home and I'll gripe about leadership all the time, but, I mean, you can come home and gripe about leadership all the time, too, but it's in a different way. It's in a completely different, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Different organization. You're doing something completely different. It's a different field. And so I just like it better. It feels better.

[24:32] CARSON PURSIFULL: Makes sense. Is there ever a time when you were, like, seeing someone and you knew that you were going to move and, like, what were those? Or, like, even just with friends, like, what's it like to, like, have a strong relationship with someone and just uproot your life? Because, like you said, if you're not married, like, what is it that you do?

[25:01] JACOB TATE: A lot of long distance relationships happen. I know when I first moved to Virginia, me and my ex, you know, we weren't ready to live together yet, but, like, he stayed in Florida, and I went on to Virginia. And, I mean, yeah, we eventually fell apart, but that was still hard. And I want to say the distance definitely did not help. But then with friends, it's also very hard. Like, you've met my best friend or one of my best friends.

[25:44] CARSON PURSIFULL: In fairness, I've met most of your best friends.

[25:46] JACOB TATE: You know, I think all of them.

[25:47] CARSON PURSIFULL: At this point, I think you're correct, but go on.

[25:53] JACOB TATE: But you've met him, and we met in Florida, and then we ended up following each other to Norfolk, but then after Norfolk, he ended up in middle of nowhere, Nevada, and I ended up here in DC. And I just remember at the time, we were just both, like, so grief stricken because we were like, what do we do? We've been together for nearly six years at this point. And, you know, and then he got orders to come back here, and he was here for, like, a month, and then he left again. And so.

[26:30] CARSON PURSIFULL: But I mean, military life, right?

[26:32] JACOB TATE: I was gonna say, but at least he's closer, you know, 3 hours down the road as opposed to all the way across the country. And so I think once you just make those, I think military friendships are special just because you all come together and you bond so quickly. You bond so quickly because you already have so much in common. Most times, you know, whether you're away from family or, you know, you're all just together on the same ship, you're all forward deployed together, whatever it is, you guys, just a cohesiveness happens very quickly, and it's great, but when it's time to transfer, it sucks because it's just like, man, I don't know when I'll even see them again. But then when you do all get together again, it's a party.

[27:24] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah. What do you like? How do you think your life has been different than you imagined it would be? Like when you were a kid and you thought about growing up, like, did you think that you were gonna be in the military?

[27:36] JACOB TATE: Absolutely not.

[27:39] CARSON PURSIFULL: I don't know. Just like I guess. I don't know. I don't think I necessarily knew what I was going to do. But is there anything that's really just surprised you that you've done as an adulthood?

[27:52] JACOB TATE: Honestly, this has been pretty surprising for me. I didn't see myself living here and doing what I'm doing now. No, I didn't see it like this. I thought I knew. I eventually get out of Arkansas. I didn't know that it would be when I was, you know, 23. But, I mean, I'm glad I did. I'm glad I did. And I think really going active duty really just propelled a lot of things forward. Yeah, I think that's the best way I can answer that.

[28:44] CARSON PURSIFULL: Then what's something that you've done so far that you just feel really proud of in your life?

[28:54] JACOB TATE: You know, without sounding too sappy, you know, I'm really proud that. Of the fact that we got married. Right. Because that wasn't something that was always possible. And in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways, right. The lovings did at first, but I'm just really proud of the fact that I was able to meet a wonderful, caring guy and fall in love with him and marry him and have him along for this crazy rite we call life because we're here and you're so supportive, and we're just always in it together.

[29:40] CARSON PURSIFULL: Well, the support goes both ways.

[29:42] JACOB TATE: Yeah, absolutely. But, I mean, I've got a bunch of other accomplishments and things that I'm proud of, but I want to say that that's, thus far, proudest moment. It's way up there.

[29:56] CARSON PURSIFULL: Did you think that you're gonna get married?

[29:58] JACOB TATE: Honestly, I didn't really see it. Like, probably not. I don't know. I find dating in the gay, in the gay community is just already hard enough. Like, it's a wreck out there. And, like, especially with, like, how, like, my last couple of relationships had ended. I was just like, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, whatever. So. But then it's almost like, as soon as you stop looking for something, there it is.

[30:32] CARSON PURSIFULL: And when we were dating, when do you think the, like, when did you know that you were in love with me? What was it that made you think, oh, this is the guy?

[30:46] JACOB TATE: I don't know. What did you cook?

[30:51] CARSON PURSIFULL: Well, actually, you cooked for me first.

[30:55] JACOB TATE: Um, I think what it was was. It was before we had, um, it was before we had our cherry blossom photos taken. But this was, like, I want to say, like, around, like, December, but I had invited you over to my apartment, and I told you that I wanted to play video games, and I wanted you to play with me. And, you know, I love playing super smash, and I love, you know, playing, like, dead by daylight or Mario Kart. But we decided to play smash, and, like, you reluctantly grabbed a remote. Cause you were like, I don't game much. And I then proceeded to kick your ass for no reason in Super Smash, and you took it like a champ. While I continue to just talk crap the entire evening.

[31:56] CARSON PURSIFULL: I thought it was really cute.

[32:01] JACOB TATE: And you laughed, and I was like, I think I really love this guy, because you were just so much fun, and you understood that I wasn't trying to be mean and that I was just being a clown.

[32:21] CARSON PURSIFULL: And what was it like when you agreed to go with me to Indiana to pick up a dog and meet my parents? What was going through your mind before? The first time you met my parents?

[32:38] JACOB TATE: I was like, well, I hope they're not racist.

[32:41] CARSON PURSIFULL: Oh, that's fair.

[32:43] JACOB TATE: Which, I mean, you had told me they weren't, but I was like, ooh, I'll see for myself, and I'll be the judge of that.

[32:52] CARSON PURSIFULL: But as we both know, we got to Indiana, and my dad ended up having a heart attack as soon as we got there.

[32:59] JACOB TATE: Yeah.

[33:00] CARSON PURSIFULL: And I don't know. Obviously, I remember it, but what was going through your mind when we had been dating maybe six months, you had never met my parents before, and you're standing in the hospital with me.

[33:15] JACOB TATE: I think in that moment, my line of thinking was, I just need it to be there for you. You know? I was like, I don't even know where our relationship is going. It's going in the right direction, but I don't know where it'll end up. But I just know right now, this is where I need to be and where I'm meant to be. And that was just my number one priority, was making sure that you were going to be okay. And that's all I wanted.

[33:49] CARSON PURSIFULL: And I knew I loved you by that time. And I told you that was the time that I knew that we were going to be together.

[33:57] JACOB TATE: Yeah, the same.

[34:01] CARSON PURSIFULL: And I know that we. We go back and forth on whether we want to have kids. I work with kids every day, and I say, why would I want to come home to kids? But I know how much the idea of being a dad means to you.

[34:23] JACOB TATE: I can't just tell all the dad jokes to the dogs.

[34:28] CARSON PURSIFULL: So if we do end up having kids, what's something that you want to tell them?

[34:36] JACOB TATE: Something that I would want to tell our kids is probably not to be so hard on yourself just because I know I'm hard on myself. And I get it that I get the feeling that sometimes you're way too hard on yourself too. And so that would be the one thing that I would try to tell our kids is that they don't, they don't have to be perfect. No one's perfect. And it's okay to make mistakes and, you know, because I'll gladly tell them I'm hard on myself all the time, and it's not good, but it's just a work in progress. And so I think that'd be, I think that'd be, it was just, don't be so hard on yourself.

[35:29] CARSON PURSIFULL: And if you had to give advice to, I don't know, a young, black gay kid in Arkansas, I don't know. Or anyone who just feels like they don't know where their place in the world is. Do you have advice for anyone like that?

[35:49] JACOB TATE: Yeah, of course. I would say at the soonest travel leave, find out where your happy place is. And really, that happy place could even be in Arkansas. It could be anywhere in the south. It could literally be anywhere. But you have to go out and find where your happy place is. And then once you find where your happy place is, if you have to take some work to get there, to be at your happy place, then put in the work, because, I mean, it's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows. It's going to be some work. But find your happy place and Mat Patty, get there once you found it.

[36:41] CARSON PURSIFULL: And my last advice, thinking about that ship that you're on and the really hard times that they've been having with several service members dying from suicide recently, I think about the situations other service members are in that they feel, you know, they feel like taking their own life is the only option they have. Would you say anything to them, people who feel like they just don't have any other choice right now?

[37:17] JACOB TATE: Absolutely. And I think I would also tell them that brighter days are ahead. And, you know, while granted, I can't, can't say anything that's going to be false, and so it would be that brighter days are definitely ahead. And so you've either got away off of, you know, off of the ship, you know, if it's the ship that's troubling you, but then you've also got a host of resources and you've got, I guarantee you, at least, at the very minimum, at least one or two good chiefs or senior leadership members that can talk to you and let you know that life is worth living. And because everybody's time in the military ends at some point, this isn't a lifetime career. It's not. And so, while, yeah, it might be a bad few years or it might be a bad couple of months, but nothing is forever. Nothing is truly forever, including, you know, including the thoughts that make you feel like you're not supposed to be here. And that. And that, you know, leaving is. Is your only solution. And I'd obviously advise to seek help. Seek out.

[38:56] CARSON PURSIFULL: Yeah.

[38:57] JACOB TATE: You know, if I could put my phone number out here for everyone, I would. The phone's always on, you see. I'm always on it.

[39:05] CARSON PURSIFULL: But someone loves you.

[39:08] JACOB TATE: Someone loves you. That's absolutely correct.

[39:19] CARSON PURSIFULL: Is there anything that you feel like I left out?

[39:23] JACOB TATE: I mean, I feel like you've really hit all the boxes. You didn't let me know any of these questions at all. No time to plan. Thank you for asking me those, though. This has been pretty interesting. You've never asked me any of these questions. And, um, hopefully. Hopefully my answers were good for you.

[39:46] CARSON PURSIFULL: They were very good.

[39:48] JACOB TATE: Good.