Jacqueline Fierro and Gustavo De Los Rios

[00:04] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So my name is Gustavo de Los Rios I'm 25 years old. Today's date is January 28, 2023. We're in El Paso, Texas, and I'm here with Jacqueline Fierro. My good friend Jacqueline Fierro.

[00:20] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yes, I'm Jacqueline Fierro. I'm 23, and I'm here with Gustavo.

[00:29] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Perfect. Where can we get started? I guess we were both born. I mean, well, I was born here.

[00:39] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. So was I.

[00:40] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Okay.

[00:40] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[00:41] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So we're both raised here, I guess.

[00:44] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I think for me, I was mostly raised in Juarez.

[00:49] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Okay.

[00:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I would come to school around, like, here, the downtown area, and we would go back and forth every day, so. Every day?

[01:02] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: How long did you do that for?

[01:03] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Well, I did it until I was in 6th grade. So when I started going to middle school, we moved over here. Wow. But, yeah, we did it for a lot of years. My brother did it his whole life until he graduated high school.

[01:15] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. No, it's rough. I mean, I. I did that for maybe one or two years, and that was like, I want to say my fifth grade, maybe my 6th grade year. That was not fun.

[01:27] JACQUELINE FIERRO: No, no. So at that time, when the time would change in Juarez, it was one time, and it was like an hour later here. So my mom would wake me up at four in the morning to come to school. You know, you're little. So I would literally tell her, like, mom, why are you waking me up? It's nighttime. You know, like, es no che four que me levanta. So it was rough, but I think that now I get why we did that, you know?

[01:57] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Oh, yeah. No, definitely. It was worth the sacrifice, 100%. And, I mean, that was. But, I mean, if you think about it, it's also really crazy. I mean, we're literally going from one country to another to study.

[02:13] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. Yeah.

[02:14] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: You can't. A lot of. I mean, a lot of people in El Paso could say that.

[02:18] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yes. I think just people here. I know. Like, recently, I went on a vacation, right? And the guy was like, wait, how do you speak English if you're Mexican? And I was like, and then he's like, what do you mean? You went to school in the United States? You know? And I was like, oh, well, I live in the border. And like. And he was like, so you just go to Mexico and then you go to the US? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, how long does it take? And I was like, dude, you know, last time I went to Juarez to get a burrito during my lunch break.

[02:52] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yep, that's very common.

[02:53] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So I think it's what makes this place so unique and so awesome, you know?

[02:58] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. And not even, I mean, even just amongst border cities. I mean, I've been to a few and gone through, like, different parts of entry. And so far, though, this is the one that I've noticed that it's very much, how much it's intertwined is very unique as far as we're literally, like, downtown to downtown. Yeah, that's not common. Other places, like in San Diego, you have, you go, like, very south of San Diego, and then after that you sort of end up in Tijuana, but you're definitely away from San Diego.

[03:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay. So it's more like the outskirts and the outskirts.

[03:41] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, yeah. Like, it's, it doesn't have that same feel of, like, sort of mixed culture. You could tell there's a difference, which you can sort of tell here, but it's not as much. Especially how inertroid we are.

[03:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, yeah. It's really cool because you have, like, all the bars, like, downtown Juarez, you can just go over and grab a drink and it's. It's cool. I think it's nice.

[04:07] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. That's also been really fun too, right? Yeah, that was one of my favorite things to do when I was in.

[04:15] JACQUELINE FIERRO: High school, when I was, like, 18.

[04:17] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[04:20] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And that's unique too. You know, like, most people here in the states are like, oh, you're gonna have your first drink when you're 21. But we got the opportunity to do it a little earlier.

[04:30] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Just a little bit. Yeah. Which is always good. Getting some stuff out of the way. I don't know. I think. Yeah. That part's always been interesting to me. But school, school too. I mean, I think it's very interesting to see them, the different groups of people that are. Oh, yeah, it's cool.

[04:55] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I think another thing that is unique to, like, this region is people coming back and forth to school. And I remember, like, at our high school, people would go in the city bus and you could see, like, just a bunch of people getting there. And we knew that those were the people that were coming or commuting from Juarez. So, you know, people make that sacrifice all the time.

[05:21] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, I remember, like, I remember being a part of that group for a while and then also afterwards, like, being with teachers that knew what was going on. So they, if they were running late or something, they wouldn't, like, you know, they wouldn't get in trouble for it because the teacher knew they're crossing or. Yeah, they were running late or the bus broke down or something, which that in itself is really. I mean, it's great that you have teachers like that, but obviously you have teachers that don't really get it as well.

[05:55] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, I think it's interesting. I have a coworker right now that goes back and forth.

[06:00] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Oh, really?

[06:01] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, and I think it's nice. Like my boss, sometimes he'll be like five or ten minutes late. I feel like there's no way for you to tell how long you'll be at the bridge for. So last time he was a little bit late and I was like, no, I think we all get it. You know, like we're like, oh, you're fine. We get that you were at the bridge or whatever, so. But I don't think it's as common for someone to like, come to work from Juarez. At least not at my workplace. Yeah, I guess I think other places maybe.

[06:33] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. No, I mean, for me it's funny because I actually go to work in Juarez.

[06:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Ah, that's true. You see that too.

[06:40] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, I mean. Cause I spend, I mean, it's very much like a back and forth. But my actual position requires me to be like in Juarez and shelters, trying to figure out needs and seeing how we can best fit. So a lot of it's actually just being in Juarez in general, which I would have never thought I would have been doing this, you know, later in my life. You know, I think it was super unique opportunity which a lot of that came from. Like when we were like volunteering at. What was it? Was it sheltered?

[07:17] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Haochin down the street? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. That's interesting. Yeah. And it was. Again, I think it all comes from the awareness of like the duality that we have here and the cultures and the mix and how, you know, like the directors of Ciudad Nueva were making an effort to, I help with the needs of the community that we were part of. Right. Like being, being immigrants and coming back and forth and all that. Like, I know a lot of people that were into that were doing the same thing also, like coming back and forth. So that's interesting that you ended up working for.

[07:58] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That's been good. Yeah, to say the least. Super busy these days. But I mean, it also just goes to show, like, being here. Yes, immigration is super big, but you can go anywhere, you know, as far as, like, I have a lot of friends that are still out of town doing all sorts of. You're a banker, you work at the banks, are you?

[08:23] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[08:25] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: It's not just all around immigration but obviously, immigration has a big part to do with, I think, a lot of people. I mean, I would almost say everybody's story here, but I don't want to generalize.

[08:39] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, yeah. I think for the most part, most of us are either we immigrated or, like, our parents did.

[08:52] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, no, definitely. I think it's always a very unique situation.

[08:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm.

[09:00] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Hmm. I guess I wasn't trying to read some of the questions.

[09:10] JACQUELINE FIERRO: What do you think?

[09:14] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Those are pretty funny. What? I was like, what is your fruit? Was there a time you didn't like me? That's pretty funny.

[09:30] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Was there a time I didn't like you?

[09:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yesterday I was.

[09:33] JACQUELINE FIERRO: What do you. Actually. No, just kidding. I was gonna tell you. Was there a time I didn't like you? Nah, nah.

[09:45] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, I don't think so.

[09:46] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Not so far. Not yet.

[09:50] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: When I try to lead you yeah.

[09:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: No, I'm pretty bad when I do that.

[09:54] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, I'm just kidding.

[09:56] JACQUELINE FIERRO: But don't take it personal or do it to everyone. No, I don't know.

[10:05] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Even. That's pretty funny. I mean, even the dynamic of how. Cause we've met. What?

[10:13] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Middlese, I think. Middle school?

[10:16] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, middle school.

[10:18] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Well, you're actually. I don't know. I don't know. You're a year older than me, so. I was in middle school, but I think you might have already been in high school.

[10:26] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. I was like, how did that work?

[10:29] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, I know. I think I was, like, in 8th grade.

[10:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: True.

[10:33] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[10:35] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. But, I mean, even then, we still really didn't talk a whole lot.

[10:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: No, no, we didn't talk a whole lot.

[10:41] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And then it's funny. We did the haojin thing.

[10:46] JACQUELINE FIERRO: We did the haojin thing.

[10:48] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I think that's where we started ish talking, but not really. Like, after that, I think I would.

[10:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Just see you around, like. And I was like, oh, hey. But then I think when we really, like. Like, I was like, okay, this is my friend. Was it when we went to Costa Rica? Yeah, I was like, this guy's definitely my friend. We're not gonna talk about that.

[11:10] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: We'll beat this out. Yeah. Costa Rica. It's funny. You said that, like, on Snapchat. You know how they have, like, the memories. I didn't. I forgot I had took videos.

[11:25] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, I need to see you.

[11:28] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: It's when we were. When we went out to that dancing place with.

[11:33] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, my God. Yeah.

[11:37] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I was dying. I was like, oh, my gosh.

[11:40] JACQUELINE FIERRO: You took videos of the man?

[11:42] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No. I wish.

[11:44] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay, that was fun. That was really fun.

[11:47] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, that yeah. And then after that, we sort of, like, really didn't.

[11:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: We didn't see each other.

[11:53] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, not really.

[11:55] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Until the gym.

[11:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: The gym?

[11:57] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[11:57] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That was nuts.

[11:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That was random, too. Yeah. Well, for me, like.

[12:01] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, it was definitely for me, too.

[12:03] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I don't think you would have ever expected me to, like, go to that gym.

[12:06] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, I was like, I don't think I expected anybody that I knew to go to that gym.

[12:10] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[12:10] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Cause it's so much so, like, a powerlifter slash meathead gym. Unless you know somebody there, like, you're not gonna know about it.

[12:20] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[12:20] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Or you're in the community of, like, powerlifting, I guess. I was like, oh, juggie.

[12:29] JACQUELINE FIERRO: It was fun. I like it there. It's been good, but. Yeah. And then the dancing.

[12:37] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That has been fun.

[12:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That has been. Oh, my God. It has been life changing for me.

[12:42] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. The dancing has been insane.

[12:45] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Insane.

[12:47] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Well, I mean, think about it. It's been, like, what, six months?

[12:51] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Well, I think now we're at.

[12:53] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, six months. Yeah.

[12:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[12:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And so, I mean, we've learned a lot.

[12:59] JACQUELINE FIERRO: We have. But I think a lot of it has to do with us being there, like, almost every day.

[13:04] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Oh, yeah.

[13:06] JACQUELINE FIERRO: You know?

[13:07] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. I think I was thinking about that yesterday or this morning.

[13:10] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm.

[13:11] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I was, like, literally, like, seven. Seven months ago, I wouldn't. I could not move my left and right foot. Synchronized in a beat. And then it's like, now I'm like, I know all these different. It's like we learned a lot of different styles of dances. I mean, like, yeah.

[13:34] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Chacha, chacha, kisomba.

[13:40] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I'm still trying to forget that.

[13:42] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. I really. I don't know. I like the dancing, but I think. I don't know. I feel. And tell me if you feel it. I don't know. This is just. Okay. I think that I have a different approach to the dancing than you do, and I think that's where we might bump heads a little, because to me, it was more of a, I'm doing this for fun. I'm just doing this. There's no structure. And then I started seeing that you started getting into it a lot more, and. Oh, yeah, look, you're laughing. You started taking more courses and being more structured or more, like, disciplined about it. And to me, it was kind of like, oh, if I have a chance, I can go take a course, or.

[14:31] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I don't know if it's like this. Well, I would describe it more as, like, for me to have fun, I need to know what I'm doing.

[14:39] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[14:40] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And that's, like, important for me because, like, I won't enjoy it. Like, it's, like, a perfect example for me is that, like. Like, I suck at kumbia. I do not know how to kumbia.

[14:50] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[14:51] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Do I like the music? Of course. So I don't have fun when I have to dance Kumia, and I don't know how to lead it.

[14:57] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Because you're hard on yourself.

[14:59] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Well, no, because I don't know how to dance it because I'm, like, so much better at salsa.

[15:03] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[15:05] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: It comes naturally to me.

[15:06] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Now.

[15:06] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: The thing is, like, I want to be to a point where I don't.

[15:08] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Have to, like, think about it.

[15:10] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Think about it. And right now, that's where I'm feeling with salsa. Salsa, like, literally, like, I can be, like, an autopilot sometimes, and I'm just like, yeah. Doing all these different moves, and I have. I have no clue what I'm doing. I have no clue what's gonna come next. It just sort of happens.

[15:24] JACQUELINE FIERRO: You're just doing it. That's cool. Yeah.

[15:26] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: But that's where I have fun. That's why I was like, it doesn't feel structured. That's why I'm, like, structured. I don't know if that's the best word to describe. At least I wouldn't describe it like that. It's more like, I am right now. I'm at a point where I feel like, especially for leaders. Cause you have to know. You have to know the steps.

[15:43] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's not a follower.

[15:45] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That's why it might be like, maybe that's where, like.

[15:48] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm.

[15:48] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: We might bump heads because it's like, for a leader, you have to know.

[15:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's true.

[15:53] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: She's everything.

[15:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[15:55] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And a follower, you're not. It's not like you don't have to, you know, you have to know how to follow, which technically includes, like, it.

[16:02] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Kind of feels like, you know, you have to know how to read the signs. That's it. You know, like, certain placements or whatever. You're like, oh, that's what we're doing.

[16:11] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. And then we have to, like, learn how to put that. Yeah.

[16:13] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Like, yeah. In words and now not words, but in feelings. But it's cool. I mean, to me, it's been amazing to. Through the dance, like, I can really read people's energy.

[16:30] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Oh, yeah.

[16:31] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And, like, feel things differently than before. I think it helps. Like, I think there's so many lessons through dancing that you can apply to, like, life in general, and at least I see it like that.

[16:45] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: What would be one lesson you think you could apply from dance?

[16:47] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Like, even though being able. And I struggle with this, I know you just tease me about it, but in general, I struggle with kind of going with the flow of things. A lot of the time, I kind of want to be in control, which is why sometimes when we're dancing, I want to tell you what to do. And I'm like, no, you're turning me this way. I'm turning right. And it's helped me be like, you know, just go with it. Like, they're gonna turn you right. Go right. You know, life might be.

[17:17] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I was gonna say, when life hits you right, you turn right. Yeah.

[17:19] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And. And, you know, even with the whole thing, when I was trying to, like, move out of town. Right. I was going, like, life was leading me one way, and I was so hard to turn the other.

[17:30] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And what did we learn in dance? When you try to lead somebody another way, it feels awkward, and you ultimately, you can't really.

[17:36] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. And it feels forced, and it doesn't look pretty either, you know? So that's what I learned.

[17:43] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So, yeah, that was a very good lesson.

[17:46] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And I feel like I could incorporate it, too. So even, like, I don't know if you saw me yesterday dancing with, like, Mike. Right. I told you, like, the first time that I danced with him, it felt really horrible. I was like, I suck. But it was because it was that side of me trying to be in control of everything and being like, oh, I'm gonna dance this perfectly. And yesterday kind of let go, and I was like, let's see what we were doing.

[18:09] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[18:09] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And it felt so much better.

[18:11] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[18:11] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And I feel like that's, again, the same thing with life. Like, if I could just, like, go and let it guide me.

[18:17] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: You'll enjoy it a lot more.

[18:18] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I'll enjoy it a lot more, and it'll look a lot prettier.

[18:21] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Very true.

[18:21] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I want deep. Yeah.

[18:25] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I didn't expect that.

[18:27] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So that's one example.

[18:28] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. That's a very good example of how.

[18:30] JACQUELINE FIERRO: It'S, like, changed my life.

[18:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, that's been very good for me. It's just been good for socializing.

[18:37] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's true.

[18:38] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Just meeting a lot of people. A whole different community of people.

[18:42] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. And this could tie back into, like, that girl yesterday was telling me, like, she comes from Juarez and she takes classes and. Juarez. And again, like, we have so much access to that, twice as much talent because we live in the border, you know? Like, I can go out there and have a whole different, like, instructor and people to dance with, and they have a different way.

[19:06] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Whole different country to dance with.

[19:08] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, that's super cool. You know, we don't have to just stick to the people here. We could go to another country in school.

[19:16] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, no, that's always been fun.

[19:20] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And even when I went on my trip last month, I went into classes out there. So I think it's opened me up a lot more to, like, not being scared to, like, go up to a random person. Like, through the dancing, you will make friends. You know, you meet people.

[19:38] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So I know that's also something that I've been excited about. It's like going out of town and trying other places.

[19:44] JACQUELINE FIERRO: You should. Yes, I.

[19:46] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Which I think very soon I will. Just to see how it goes.

[19:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I'm sure it'll go great. Why not?

[19:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, no, it'll be good.

[19:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[19:58] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, if anything, Louie yesterday was, like, offering me to, like, come practice with their team on Sunday.

[20:05] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So I was like, so you have been.

[20:10] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I'm like, back and forth.

[20:12] JACQUELINE FIERRO: No, every instructor in town has already offered you to come down for them. Even the girl yesterday, I had never met her before, and we were, like, dancing. And then she's like, who do you normally dance with? And I was like, oh, Gustavo. And she's like, he's good. I'm like, oh, don't tell him that. It'll get to his head.

[20:35] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I'm the most humble person you'll ever meet.

[20:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: But I think it's so cool because, like you said, we haven't. I mean, you started dancing in June, right?

[20:44] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Last year, July ish. I think late June, early July.

[20:48] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[20:49] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And then took, like, a gap between. Because it was, like, three months. I mean, three weeks of, like, no dancing.

[20:55] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm.

[20:57] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: In between. So I was like, oh, shoot. Yeah, no, it's been good. Yeah, yesterday was fun.

[21:06] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yesterday was really fun. There was a lot of people there yesterday. Yeah, but it felt good. Like, it.

[21:12] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, it was a good amount of people that knew how to dance and knew people ish. But there's a few new people that I are really into town that are completely new but know how to dance. And that's been fun. It's funny because you could tell who they are because it's such a small community.

[21:31] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, yeah. You can tell.

[21:33] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: You're like, no, you're not from here.

[21:36] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Or, like, where'd you come from?

[21:38] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, the other girl that was there. Nicole, though. The girl?

[21:42] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[21:42] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: She's really good.

[21:43] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I saw that. I was watching her.

[21:46] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: She is insane. But I met her I think last social.

[21:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So she's new?

[21:53] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, she's actually from El Paso. Left out of town and then came back.

[21:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[21:59] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And, no, she's really good.

[22:02] JACQUELINE FIERRO: She's, I could tell. Yeah, she's good. And then I think Stephanie, she's good, too.

[22:10] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: She's really good, too. I'd almost say Nicole's a way better follower.

[22:16] JACQUELINE FIERRO: What?

[22:17] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Nicole's a way better follower.

[22:18] JACQUELINE FIERRO: It's because Samantha, what's her name? Stephanie. She wanting, she leads, too. So I can see how if I was trying to lead, I would, she's starting to learn. I would get confused. Yeah, I want to lead sometimes, maybe. Yeah, no, or get ahead of it. So that's the thing again, like, with the whole going with the flow. When you know how to dance and, you know, certain sequences, you can kind of, you already know what they're about to do. So then you get ahead of it. But then you mess it up.

[22:49] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, because you get ahead of it. Just gotta wait, be patient.

[22:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Patient. Live in the moment.

[22:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Patience, patience. Yeah, no, it's in.

[23:00] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So have you decided if you want to do, like, the competition, like, the teams?

[23:06] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I do, I just don't know who. I think I'm gonna stay with Louie, though. I'm a good, I'm good friends with him. And, like, Mike, I feel like I've been, I've been getting closer to them, like, recently, like, on Wednesday when I went to the thing.

[23:23] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, how was that?

[23:25] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: It was, I mean, there was that, like, a lot of people didn't go, but literally, I just went, like, I danced a bit and then, like, spend, like, the next few hours just, like.

[23:32] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Hanging out, hanging out with them and.

[23:34] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, drinking and, like, just having fun and so, and then we keep doing the same thing and then I'll go up and they're like, dude, pull up a chair. They're, like, super well and I'm always just hanging out with them.

[23:45] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, they're really nice. They're all really cool people.

[23:48] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. And even, like, louis was trying to show me, oh, like, correct this move because I was working on this move that I learned through my, he's like, oh, no, you could try to do it like this. And I was like, oh, okay. So I don't know, I think it's.

[24:02] JACQUELINE FIERRO: All men or, no, not at all. Okay.

[24:05] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I don't think so. I was like, you should try to do it.

[24:11] JACQUELINE FIERRO: But I struggle with that so much. I just don't ever want the dancing to feel like a task. Like, I don't want it to feel like I have to go to dance. You know what I mean?

[24:25] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That's fair.

[24:26] JACQUELINE FIERRO: But at the same time, I think I would like to do some competition or Congress or something this year, but I'm just not sure if I want to do it with a team or if I just want to do it, you know? Cause then I don't know how it would affect. I don't know.

[24:45] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Well. Cause, I mean, if you do that, there's a good chance it could feel like a task more because you have to be disciplined about it in that sense.

[24:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[24:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So I guess mentally preparing, if you want to go through that. Yeah, I guess that's understand. I mean, that's a good point. Like, yeah, you don't want it to feel like a task.

[25:05] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I think if you know me, which you know me, I kind of do things, like, very spontaneously.

[25:12] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[25:14] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So I'm just like, oh, yeah, I.

[25:16] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Wouldn'T be surprised if you do it, like, last minute.

[25:18] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I'm competing tomorrow. No. So, I don't know. I was kind of, when you were gonna do the one for Joanie, I was like, okay, I'll do that one.

[25:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I think, I honestly think Louis will be better.

[25:35] JACQUELINE FIERRO: It's. Cause I was. Yeah. And it's closer to my house. Huh.

[25:39] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: There you go. I think there's, there. Cause even Louie was, like, magnus instructor.

[25:47] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, okay.

[25:48] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And Louie's been instructing for a long time.

[25:50] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm. Okay.

[25:54] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, no, you should go try out to her, like, in a few weeks. But he invited me to practice already, so I was like, okay, okay. But no, I think, I think doing a team is, I think, for me, the way I'm seeing it is, like, I think right now, I'm at a point where I'm, like, fairly good, but I think that'll elevate my dancing way more.

[26:16] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[26:16] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, I think, I think it's gonna really change it, which is pretty good. I'm excited for it. Yeah, I think it's gonna make me way more better. I see them, and I've seen other students that he's had, and they're all really good.

[26:34] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Who's your, like? And I'm like, oh, who are you talking about?

[26:39] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, the bartender.

[26:41] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Oh, I don't think I've ever, yeah, yeah.

[26:43] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: You know, you've danced with him.

[26:44] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I know I've danced with him, but that one time.

[26:48] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: But he was one of his students at Yammede, and other people too. I mean, Mangye was a student, and mangy is, like, incredible.

[26:56] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[26:57] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So I'm like, no, I think. And the reason why I think you'll like it. Because even just his breakdown, his breakdown of the class or, like, what it would be, like, the first four to six weeks is literally musicality. It's understanding what you're listening to. Like, oh, this is a salsa. No, it's a mambo. No, it's like something else. You know? It's not just like that. So, like, that's what he's gonna train us to do.

[27:25] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[27:26] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, the first few weeks. Or, like, oh, this is vaccata. Well, no, it's traditional. Or it's in swad. Or, you know, like, it's a. All these different thoughts. I was like, no, I think you would enjoy that part a lot. I think.

[27:41] JACQUELINE FIERRO: You think so? I think I would.

[27:42] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I know so.

[27:43] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I'll try it. I'll sleep on it. Just don't sleep on it on the dance floor.

[27:53] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[27:53] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Um, no, I think I feel the same. Like, if I'm gonna continue dancing right, as well, do it to where I'm getting better at it.

[28:04] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. Cause I feel that's where I've, like, where I've. Where dancing has not felt good for me, has been when I don't feel progress.

[28:13] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[28:14] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And I feel stuck. That's where it's not fun for me. Cause I'm like. I feel like I'm doing the same things. I'm not growing, learning. Like, it's like, you know, every single move that I'm gonna do, it just different order, and you can still get it. Not to say, like, oh, I want to confuse you, but I want to make it more interesting. Like, I mean, it's. Because it's always. It's always, as a leader, it's always fun to see, like, your follower, like, have, like, fun from a move that you do. Like, that move that you really like where, like, you go under the arm.

[28:48] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. That's cool. I don't know what you did yesterday. You did one move that you had already been doing, but you switched it up a little bit, and I was like, oh, we got fancy. You don't remember?

[29:00] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Well, you're just eight moves.

[29:02] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I know. You have, like, a gazillion. Yeah. I don't know. It's been fun for me just seeing how much you've grown with the dancing, because, I mean, who's. At first, it was just like, basic. Basic crossbody.

[29:19] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[29:21] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And I was like, okay, this is fun ish.

[29:24] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[29:25] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And now I'm like, every time we dance, you do something new. And I'm like, that's cool. Like, and it surprises me, you know?

[29:33] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Exactly. Well, that's a feeling you want to create as a, as a leader.

[29:37] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. What? I guess since we're having, like, this conversation, what is something that, like, you can give me feedback in as far as the dancing goes now that you're such a professional? No. From, like, when we started to now, like, is there something that you're, like, I would still do this, or.

[30:01] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I think you've described it. Like, you just need to, like, relax and follow.

[30:06] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[30:07] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Which is for, I mean, I don't know necessarily how you do that. Cause, I mean, that's a very hard task in itself, but, I mean, well, yes. No, the thing I could say is that it's like going out dancing. You will not improve if you don't go out. You can take all the classes you want, or occasionally, but if you don't apply it, you're never gonna learn. You're never gonna get better.

[30:34] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[30:35] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, for me, all the classes that I've taken, I'm not good because of the classes that I've taken. They've helped. I'm good because I'm going out dancing all the time and with different people. Like, that's the only reason, because I know how to lead different people. It's different leading you than somebody, like, who's, like, you know, way taller.

[30:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Wow.

[31:00] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: But, no, it's true. Like, I mean, even the feeling is different.

[31:04] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, I get it. Because, like, dancing with Mike, he's very flowy, very, like, you know, and at first, I struggled.

[31:13] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I was, yeah, it's intimidating.

[31:14] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. I was like, oh, my God. I'm too, like, you know, ballroomy. And then there's, like, when I dance with Antoine, it's different, you know? Or when I dance with Jose, he dances different too.

[31:28] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[31:29] JACQUELINE FIERRO: So you're right. Like, that's the only way.

[31:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That's the only thing. If you want to get better, you need to go out dancing more.

[31:37] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[31:37] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: That's the only thing.

[31:39] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Mm hmm.

[31:39] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Because what's the point of taking all these classes if you don't apply?

[31:42] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's true. Okay. Okay.

[31:45] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And even, like, in the dancing, you learn different things. I mean, a lot of things, I find myself correcting things or changing stuff up, or, and I get it. I would say it's, like, even the same at school. Like, you can get a degree if you never go out and apply it, you're never gonna, like, grow. And even then, you might have have taken this course and to say, like, oh, you're a professional in finance or whatever, but then even though, when you're in the job, you learn the job.

[32:12] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. Like, realistically, how it applies in real life. Yeah. Okay. Do you ever feel like, at certain times, I am easier to lead than others?

[32:25] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[32:26] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay.

[32:27] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. And that's, like, depending on your mood.

[32:29] JACQUELINE FIERRO: On my mood?

[32:30] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, I think so.

[32:31] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I want grumpy girl.

[32:34] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Exactly. 360s.

[32:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's cool.

[32:39] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: And, like, yesterday, I was tired. I was exhausted yesterday. But I was like, yeah, I'll go. Well, you know, it's funny, because when you texted, I was actually like, I'll probably go just check out because it's on my way to the house. So I was like, I'll probably see what's up. And I was like, oh, nice.

[32:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I was in bed already, and I don't know, I was like, I kind of want to go dancing for a little bit, because I just feel like it helps me release my stress. And I had, like, a pretty stressful day at work, so I was like, I'm gonna go dance. But I was a little intimidated because I was going by myself. Like, you weren't there, and I knew that you weren't there, so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna walk in there and not know anyone.

[33:22] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. For a few times. It's a little.

[33:24] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah. So I just said hi to, like, mike, and then I was like, okay.

[33:29] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[33:29] JACQUELINE FIERRO: But since it's such a little community, like, a lot of people were like, oh, yeah, I've seen you. Like. I know.

[33:33] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Mm hmm.

[33:34] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And, like, yeah, it's cool.

[33:37] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, no, that's what's been really good about it.

[33:40] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah.

[33:41] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: But now, yesterday was fun. I didn't. I didn't expect it.

[33:46] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, I was there for, like, two minutes.

[33:50] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Gotta dance more.

[33:52] JACQUELINE FIERRO: The what?

[33:52] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: So you gotta dance more.

[33:54] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I do. I will. I'm gonna. Are you going to the thing tonight?

[33:57] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah.

[33:58] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Okay. Let's. Down the street from my house. I think I can. It's a far drive. Okay, well.

[34:08] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think this was fun.

[34:12] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I think it's all been fun. I think this is a cool opportunity to, like, reflect on our dancing journey.

[34:20] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Life.

[34:21] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Life. True.

[34:24] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: No, it's been cool. Definitely. It's been cool doing it with you. That's been. I would have never imagined, like, that.

[34:32] JACQUELINE FIERRO: We were dancing together.

[34:33] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. What the heck? I can't honestly say, like, five years ago, I'd have been like, oh, yeah, we're gonna, like, I'm gonna start dancing, and Jack is gonna be my partner.

[34:41] JACQUELINE FIERRO: No. No way. Like, when we went to Costa Rica, like, no way. No. Especially.

[34:47] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Cause I was like, no way.

[34:48] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Shut up. We said you were gonna talk about it, and then the gym, right? Like, yeah, we were, like, doing, like, powerlifting at the same gym. How are we. How do we. How do you go from powerlifting to salsa dancing? You know?

[35:04] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Like, I will say it helps.

[35:08] JACQUELINE FIERRO: With the flips.

[35:09] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I can lift you much easier now.

[35:11] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's true. That's true. But it's been so fun, and thank you so much for being patient. I think you've been super patient with me because from the beginning to now.

[35:24] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Patient? I don't know. Just kidding. I don't think. I don't think there's been much to be patient about. If anything. I'm like. I'm like, I'm glad I could sort of keep up because I was like, I remember the first time I would say before we, like, cut. The first time I ever danced with you, I was super intimidated.

[35:43] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Intimidated?

[35:44] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah, at the garrison, because I was like, oh, my gosh, this girl can dance. And I'm like, I have no clue what the heck I'm doing.

[35:50] JACQUELINE FIERRO: And now you've done so much better than me.

[35:56] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I was, like, scared the first time. That's like, okay, I need to get good.

[35:59] JACQUELINE FIERRO: I was like, I need to be.

[36:01] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Able to lead anybody.

[36:03] JACQUELINE FIERRO: That's really cool, though. That's awesome. Oh, I'm so proud of you.

[36:08] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: I'm just glad that we were able to do this and share this experience together.

[36:13] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Yeah, for sure. It's been fun.

[36:15] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. Well, thank you for joining me on this talk. I know it was last minute, so I'm glad you did it.

[36:24] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Thank you. Thank you for having me talk. It's one of the things I do. Palestine.

[36:32] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Yeah. This is. Notice I was like, who could do this?

[36:34] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Who can talk?

[36:36] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Oh, I know something.

[36:38] JACQUELINE FIERRO: Thank you. Yeah.

[36:39] GUSTAVO DE LOS RIOS: Awesome.